Nikki: hi, my rundown with ADs

[Petunia]

Please any advise is welcome.

 

Hi Nikki,

 

I haven't posted on your thread before and I don't know why because we do have some major things in common.  Similar marriage/divorce situation.  Like you, I've spent the majority of my daughters life overcompensating for certain characteristics of the other parent, running damage control and getting exhausted by misplaced guilt.

 

Being a parent stretches us in ways its impossible to imagine.  I think its the constant stress of trying to find that ever changing balance between holding tight and letting go.

 

But I'm hesitant to give advice when it comes to relationship issues because its my belief that there is no ultimate wrong or right decision.  Any advise I gave would be based on my beliefs, values, goals and personal history, which could be quite different from yours.  Even when you get professional counseling, they don't give advice, just help you work through your own stuff and help you to make your own decisions..... which in a way, from your last post, it looks like you have done.

 

Maybe that's why I've never posted on your thread before, because you always seem to figure out what to do next eventually.

 

All any of us can do is make the best choices we can with what we have and what we know, and hope for the best.  If things don't work out, then sometimes we can make another choice.

 

Petu.

[Nikki]

Petu you hit the nail right on the head and worded it in  way I could not.  Wish our similarities were better ones.  WD - Children and ex-spouses and of course trying to find a place in the world where we give ourselves contentment and security.

 

Looking over your med history....you have been through hell.

 

I took Prozac for one week in 1998 and I thought I was going to literally jump off a bridge from anxiety.

 

Lexapro was one helluva a drug for me to try and get off of.  Took 2 years. I had suicide ideation from it and it scared the daylights out of me.  I didn't think about killing myself.  I thought about "Oh no, what if I lose my mind and hurt myself."  That is extreme anxiety not suicide.

 

What is it like being med-free?  Do you think you have ADD or was it a misdiagnoses.  In the states there is a medication Adderall for ADHD and it a controlled substance.  And some doctors use Wellbutrin in it's place.  There is a substantial difference in the cost.

 

I can't thank you enough for answering my post and putting things into context.  If I can be of help to you please PM me and we can chat.

 

Lots of Hugs

 

I took Serzone (Nefazadone) for a two week period to help get off Lexapro.  It was very calming but I was high.  the idiot doctor I went to told me there was no such thing as WD from Lexapro so I stopped seeing him and stopped Serzone.  My mother has been taking Serzone for years and it works very well for her. 

 

Serzone sits in the back of my mind for possibly, someday, switching if I decided to do that.  Who knows, right now I am not doing anything except staying put.  I have finally stabilized.

[Petunia]

What is it like being med-free?  Do you think you have ADD or was it a misdiagnoses.

 

That first question really got me thinking because to be honest, I've never actually considered it, probably because I've had such a difficult time.  If I had tapered properly and was feeling well, more like my old self, then perhaps I would have something more positive to write, although it is nice to not have to worry about pills and doses and doctor appointments etc. 

 

But sometimes I envy people who are still tapering because you have a certain control over symptoms, there is the ability to hold and updose and reduce slower.  I can't do anything but wait and take care of myself the best I can.

 

About the ADD, that's a whole post of its own and I'm not going to take up your thread with it, but to put it briefly, no, I don't think I have ADD or ADHD.  My view these days, although I didn't always think this way, is that in most cases, mental health diagnoses are created to justify treatments.  I don't mean that symptoms or problematic behaviors don't exist, but to group some of them together and call it an 'illness' doesn't seem like valid science to me.

 

Serzone actually increased my anxiety, although I didn't realize it until I came off it.  It got taken off the market here in Australia.

 

Congratulation on stabilizing, that must feel wonderful.

[Nikki]

If you don't have ADHA then giving you the dexamph. must have bee awful which is was.  You had anxiety and they gave you things that exacerbate anxiety....sorry that happened to you.

 

I take 40mgs. of Imipramine in 10mg. pills.  I had exactly 4 left for last night and will be picking up a refill today.  When I went to take the pills (Celexa and Imipramine) there were 3 Imipramine left.

 

I immediately realized my daughter took one.  I damn near had a heart attack.  I called the pharmacy and it was closed.  So I thought that my only option would be to take some extra Celexa.

 

Before doing that I emptied my Celexa bottle and found (1) 10mg. Imipramine.  Thank God.

 

She has been using my Imipramine randomly rather than get her own and stay on a steady dose.  Her reason:  she doesn't have the money for the refill.  Taking Imipramine randomly can cause shifts and WD.

 

I am going to pay for her Imipramine so she takes it regularly. 

 

It never ends.  Then I wonder why I wake up anxious and wishing I would never have woken up.

 

Every morning I try to figure out what is WD and Neuro-emotions vs. the crap that goes on here.  Like Barb said which came first the chicken or the egg.

[Barbarannamated]

That explains a lot, Nikki. If she's been skipping doses or taking irregularly.... [shudder at the thought]…

[Nikki]

Went to CVS to pick up my daughter's Imipramine and the pharmacist said her insurance denied it.

 

Her father cancelled her health insurance.  He gave her a BS story that her birthday is next month and at 25 she can't be covered under his plan.

 

It's 26, not 25.  He did this once before.  I was left with her hospital bills.

 

She can take out  a policy with my insurance company for a very reasonable premium.  She has applied for a full time position at the company she is at which carries health insurance.  Let's hope she gets it.

 

I tried to explain that having your own policy is better than having to rely on a company for benefits.

 

I try not to have bad thoughts about him, but it is damn near impossible.  It never ends.  Terrible father.  Terrible.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay back to me

 

The best advise I heard this week at my Al-Anon meetings is to keep the focus on myself.

 

The anxiety has abated.  I still have it upon waking, but not so bad.  It does take me a good two hours to move out of it.

 

Decisions to make.  Do I want to sell this house and downsize?  Biggy.  How do I stop worrying over my daughter?

Things have settled down but it was a rough 10 days.  Really bad and anxiety producing.  I told her I would pay for the Imipramine and she said no.

 

[Nikki]

Not feeling too good.  Tired, jumpy stomach, flu like feelings.  Felt like this all day.

 

Okay here is the guessing game....WD - Crashing from stress - or is it a real virus?

 

Spin the Wheel

[Nikki]

Over the weekend and today I am very tired. Feel like I could lay down.  Low grade depression.  Stinks.  I am lacking motivation.  Not like me.  Even some dizziness like I thought I would pass out twice.

 

This sets off a cycle of worry.  And that set off anxiety.  Oh Boy

 

How do I get past it?

 

It must be WD, right?

[Nikki]

I had posted in the symptoms section on tiredness, low grade depression.  Forgot anxiety.  I don't like the way I am thinking either.  Can't seem to get  healthy grasp on thoughts.

 

They are repetitive, and worrisome regarding how I feel and then the downward spiral from there.

 

I honestly don't know what to do and I have been considering switching over like Strawberry did.  Waking up day after day with dread is the ultimate case of despair.

 

I have to force myself to answer calls and make them.  At night I am going to bed to read self help stuff, journaling and trying to meditate and pray.  I go to meetings where I hear some very insightful strategies for living a better life and I think, everyone else is except myself.

 

Did not sleep at all last night and when I did fall asleep the dog kept growling.  It was raining and she doesn't like it

 

What would I tell someone else?  I might suggest updosing the celexa a bit or the Imipramine.  Crossing over.  Going for counseling.  Talk therapy helps.

 

I am working, praying, reading spiritual and self help uplifting books, I had a thorough thyroid test, re-adjusted hormones and going to meetings and still the anxiety/depression persist.  I have not stopped sugar ~ not good. Want to get myself out of the door for walking and can't seem to do it.  Have trouble getting out of bed and want to go back to sleep, but can't and should not.

 

Things have improved with my daughter although I am still concerned.  She is working quite a bit and making a huge effort to put her life in order.  She is only taking 10mgs. Imipramine and that may not be enough.  She is depressed.

 

Something has got to give and I need to figure out what that is....

[tezza]

Nikki,

 

I'm very sorry you're going through a rough patch. A night with no sleep is awful! (Especially when you're depressed)

 

Hang on, it will get better!

 

Hugs and love!

[Nikki]

Tezza thank you....I don't think this is a patch. Need help with Thyroid readings.....not well at all.  Depression is the pits.

[Sparrow]

What were your thyroid results, Nikki? (PM if you'd rather.)

 

Editied to add: never mind, saw your other thread.

 

Hugs--

Sparrow

[Nikki]

Thank you Sparrow I will go over the that thread now.....

[Nikki]

I think I may have stabilized which is good....I am not falling apart over discovering a leak behind a wall in my utility room this week.

Having it looked at again today.  Hope this doesn't cost a fortune.  And I do smell mold which will be treated.

 

My insurance deductible is $1,000 and unfortunately the HOA here changed the bylaws so we have to have $15,000 worth of damage for them to repair and cover it.

 

I made a decision earlier in the week that I wouldn't take myself out over this.  You know, it is what it is and it will be okay kind of self talk.  Although this morning I did wake with panic attacks.

 

I told the contractor/plumber that before they entered my daughter's room to check the tub and walls that I was not responsible for what they see.  I didn't raise her to be a slob and that I was embarrassed out of my mind. He said he's seen it all, not to worry. Kids

[mtnbkr]

I'm sorry you've been in a bad spot!  But it's only a spot.  Whatever label you put on it - withdrawal, depression, hormones - it still sucks.  Stay strong.  Stay focused.  Keep doing the right things for yourself.  It will pass.  Hopefully sooner rather than later. 

[Nikki]

Hi All....haven't been on the site and this morning I decided to post and tell you what is going on.  I was afraid to post the truth.

 

Lots and lots of Neuro-emotions.  I have thought about this for a long, long time and decided that Imipramine has completely lost it's usefulness.  I was on it a long time and did not have a reprieve from anxiety (yes there were many life changing events).

 

I added Celexa in 2010 and it did help alot with depression  and I took it upon myself to raise it to 40mgs. which is too much.

 

In my heart-of-hearts, I simply could not face WD for the next few years.  When I turned 59 in September it hit me very hard.  WDing into my 60's and then protracted WD and then possibly realizing that some of us just can't get off AD's and maybe should not.

 

I prayed, journaled, discussed, researched and made a decision to switch over to one med, rather than take two which aren't terribly helpful.  The choices were Zoloft or Serzone.

 

I saw my Nurse Practitioner and a Psych who read the back drop with Serzone.  There were a handful of people who had cirrhosis and a few other live ailments who took Serzone back in the early 90's and died.  The Brand was pulled and Teva makes the generic Nefazadone.

 

My mother has been taking it for years. I have had two friends who took it and did very well on it.  Sadly there were more people who committed suicide from paxil than those poor patients who died from serzone.

 

Zoloft is another ssri and I wanted to get away from another ssri.  So I opted for Serzone.  There is no weight gain or sexual side effects.

 

Am  sure about what I am doing, truthfully ~ no.  When it comes to meds and WD I never feel solid about them or what I am doing.

I am scared, very scared. 

 

I started the process of weaning down from Celexa and weaning onto Serzone.  I am in a huge state of Neuro-emotions. Had insomnia for days on end.  Forgetful - just not happy.  I do not have physical symptoms (only lower back pain which causes RLS).

 

I am procrastinating more than usual, angry, agitated - my emotions are raw like Healing describes in his thread on Neuro-Emotions.

 

I do wake up and think maybe I should have done what Strawberry did and take Zoloft. 

 

So far this has been much, much easier than when I switched from Paxil to Lexapro.

 

Please send a few prayers my way in that I have found a viable solution to anxiety.  I have had morning anxiety for so many years I just needed to find an alternative to it.  It became how I defined myself.  Hi I am Celeste and I have anxiety.  Every single morning for years.

 

I would like to be able to participate here, but I was afraid to open up.  I tend to judge myself harshly.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Nikki,

 

I support you wholeheartedly in your decision, you are wise and brave. We all have to do what is best for us and in your case, you are doing what is right for you. I have checked for postings from you every day and hoped nothing was wrong so I am glad you posted and told us about your situation. You will continue to post here and let us know how it is going, won't you?

[Nikki]

How sweet of you to check my posts....thank you.  Neuro-emotions and the fear of being judged (my stuff) kept me off the site.

 

I think I may need to lay low and turn inward to deal with the transition.  Once I have my breakfast I feel much better, but I am still in transition and will be for some time to come.

 

I am looking to get off two medicines.  Honestly, I will never ~ ever take two meds together.  When I took Paxil it worked.  Lexapro worked and when I tried to get off of it a few times, the reinstatement did not work.  Poop out.

 

Trying to practice faith in the unknown.....Hope this all works out.

 

Hugs

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Nikki, this is all so about, with eyes wide open, making the best choice as individuals. I wish you peace. I am still very ambivalent about stopping lithium...if it weren't for the potential side effects I wouldn't think twice about staying on it. You have encouraged me several times and I really hope you keep us updated on your story. All the best!

[Nikki]

MQ...thank you:)  What are the potential side effects.  So many people take it.  What does it do for you MQ?  Keep things on a even keel?

 

MQ I am done with anxiety...Just done

 

I am hopeful that this will work out so that I can remain on (1) medicine only and have what I would like to be a permanent respite from anxiety

 

Anxiety is part of life, but not the amount of time I have it.  For me it is the "thief of life."  Robbed me of alot of time.  On those occasions I did not wake with it, I was so happy, relieved and almost in disbelief.  It was so refreshing.

 

I think that the Neuro-emotions nonsense may have abated today....whew

[Barbarannamated]

Nikki,

 

I know you've been struggling for a long time and understand and respect your choice as well as your decision to share it with us. I wish you all good things and, especially, PEACE.

 

Please keep us posted.

 

B

[tezza]

Nikki, I hope it goes well and I will send prayers up for you!

 

Hugs!!

[Nikki]

Barb and Tezza thank you soooo much.  Barb everyone on here has been struggling for a long time.  It's pitiful isn't it?

 

You know Barb, I am sitting here thinking about having given people advise.  How can I know what is right for someone when I have made so many mistakes with medications for myself.  Suggestions maybe, sharing my own experiences....after all these years I have realized that psych meds have a mind of their own  You know what I mean?

 

Tapering is a humbling experience.

 

hugs

[Petunia]

Hi Nikki,

I was happy to see a post from you, I've been wondering how you were doing because I noticed you haven't been here in a while.  You have to do what is best for you.  I hope Serzone works and you stabilize on it soon.

 

Please do keep us updated.

 

Petu.

[MaryKA]

Hi Nikki, I too don't like to post sometimes, both cos things are bad and then again things are OK. You shouldn't be feeling guilty. Glad you've got in touch! I hope the change will work! 

[Nikki]

When I do the same thing over and over again why do I expect different results.

 

I have been doing a quick taper from the Celexa to get onto the Serzone.  And it has come back to bite me in the butt.  I think.

 

Not doing well.  I function and do everything I have to do and need to do.  But I am very morose and I do have anxiety

 

Made at the people around me (agitated)

Tired

Achey

Feelings of despair

 

I don't know if this is a neuro-emotion but here it goes....I would love to have a break from my mother and daughter.  I don't know if it is the taper, or having to deal with them.

 

I just feel that I need to be alone.

 

Very confused.

[Nikki]

Right now I am really scared and unsure of what to do.  The last thing I wanted to do was poly drug and here I am.

 

I am at 50mgs. Nefazadone 5mgs. Celexa 40mgs. Imipramine

 

I thought I was doing the right thing and now I am totally confused and scared.

 

Did you ever get so scared that you wanted to turn around.  That is on my mind.  Taper Nefazadone - increase the Celexa and stay where I am with Imipramine.  Stop the process.

 

Please someone help.....

 

I am somewhat sleep deprived.  I have no motivation or drive, despair, not paying full attention to what I need to do.  When I come home I want to shower and go to bed.  I can't seem to think straight - it is a struggle.  Low, very low.

 

Can't seem to tap into positive thinking or see a brighter future.

[Petunia]

Right now I am really scared and unsure of what to do.  The last thing I wanted to do was poly drug and here I am.

 

I am at 50mgs. Nefazadone 5mgs. Celexa 40mgs. Imipramine

 

I thought I was doing the right thing and now I am totally confused and scared.

 

 

Hi Nikki,

I'm sorry you are feeling so awful at the moment, but really, its not surprising, you are in the process of switching medications.  Try and remember that what you are feeling and thinking is temporary and go ahead with what you planned regarding your medication.

 

You are not poly drugging, you are in a process of switching from 2 medications onto a new one.  Perhaps you could read back through your thread to see what your plan was.

 

Take extra care of yourself and don't expect to feel well until you stabilize again.  I can completely understand your desire to be alone and not have to deal with anyone else's problems at the moment, you have enough of your own to deal with.  I think you should do what ever you need to do in order to get through this transition, including get as much sleep as you can.

 

Perhaps someone else will have some ideas about the specifics of how you are switching, because I don't know anything about that, but please be gentle with yourself and don't expect to feel well or be functioning like you usually do.  Aim to get through each day as best you can.

 

(hugs)

 

Petu.

[Nikki]

Petu I am very touched by your reply and thank you.

 

You know that mind-set of when we are going thru hell.."I" don't see a way out.  I have tunnel vision and it feels like it will never end or get better ~ and~ let me not forget self doubt. I am all over the place except where I would like to be.

 

I don't think I have ever accepted the fact that navigating thru AD's is so rough.  I have always sought to find and easier, softer way.

 

Petu when I did a crossover from Paxil to Lexapro (paxil was no longer available for a period of time) I did it in a month.  I was very hyper and after the month was over I had small procedure on my back and I think due to general anesthesia WD hit me like a ton of bricks.  I was recovering from surgery/anesthesia and the cross over, BUT it lasted a month or so and then I started to feel well again.

 

Serzone is not an ssri, so I am wondering if the crossover is strange this time around because I am not replacing one ssri for another?

 

I keep thinking about Strawberry and how she handled the switch from Prozac to Zoloft and she is doing so well.

 

Maybe I should have opted for the zoloft......I am one confused person these days.

 

Thank you for replying.

[tezza]

Hey Nikki,

 

I'm sorry you're feeling this way! When you made the decision to make this change, you were stable. Your system is feeling the changes you've made, especially the much lower dose of Celexa that you're on now.

 

Don't doubt yourself! I'd probably not go any lower on the Celexa right now, try to stabilize. You don't want to change things too fast or too often.

 

Don't blame yourself for not trying something that worked for another person. That's no guarantee it would have worked for you.

 

I understand those feelings, it will get better.

 

Hugs!!!

[Altostrata]

Switching drugs is always unpredictable. There's no way you can know what will be the best choice.

[Nikki]

Switching drugs is always unpredictable. There's no way you can know what will be the best choice.

 

Yep....it really is a "crap shoot" ~ "gamble"

 

I really do lots of homework on things before I make a decision in most areas of my life...this has to be the most unpredictable of all areas.

 

Hi Alto How are you doing these days?

Hugs

[strawberry17]

Hi Nikki

 

Just caught up with your thread, I was wondering what you decided to do, switching meds is a gamble, I guess I was lucky I was always able to switch from one equivalent med to another with no issues, just couldn't reduce or come off the damn things. When I went back to Zoloft in the summer I always knew it was a shot in the dark, a gamble, yes I feel a lot better now than this time last year, but, I'm not 100%, I'm still getting a bit of early morning anxiety and odd bits of insomnia but nowhere near as chronic as it was and the difference is that I feel able to deal with it and function now even if I have a bad night. I hope you get to that stage at the very least.

 

strawb

[Nikki]

Wow Strawberry I was so happy to see you post.  We have a group from Serxotmad doing PM's on FB....Sent an invite to you.

 

Gamble is what it is.  So happy to see you doing better.  YOur gamble seems to have paid off and I am also wondering if I should have done a crossover to a similar drug (ssri) this time around.

 

Mornings are soooo difficult...I can't seem to help myself but come on the site to purge and hopefully find an answer.

 

It's all just too much right now.  I am afraid that I may have really done some real damage by poly drugging something I said I would never do.

 

Hugs

[Barbarannamated]

Nikki,

 

I think that when people speak of polydrugging, it's usually referring to cocktsils of an AD + benzo + mood stabilizer of some sort (anti epileptic, antipsychotic)+++. With husband working at home reviewing meds, I hear of MANY people on 10-15+ drugs for chronic pain and psych (at same time).

 

Your caution is wise, but just thought I'd mention this. IMHO, it's most important to not change around a lot (drugs or dose).

 

I hope you feel some relief soon.

[Altostrata]

Hi, Nikki, I'm hanging in there, thanks for asking! Wintertime brings better sleep.