Heath: Lexapro taper plan introduction

[SkyBlue]

Hi Heath,

Sorry to hear you are in a wave.

You are smart to look at what may have caused it. I can relate to hot weather ramping up symptoms. 

I hope the wave passes soon for you.

[Greatful]

@Heath  Sorry you are having such a hard time.  The never ending ruminating thoughts that can plague us are relentless at times.

My guess you are on the merry-go-round of what caused what and how can I get a quick fix.  It seems you have done a comprehensive search for finding an answer, that's all you can do.  Now the waiting starts, waiting to  stabilize.

I know you have a good understanding on how to cope, reach in your bag and take out a  skill and if one doesn't work, reach in for another one.  Sometimes all we can do is sit in it and wait.  Here comes that word 

again Accept, ugh I know that's a hard one when our whole body and mind say panic panic panic. 

You got this Heath.   

 

[brassmonkey]

I've never liked the term "perfect storm" because it is so misused, but I think that this is what is happening to you. The majority of the symptoms you describe are good old fashion Akathisia. It may be a new symptom to you, so you are not familiar with it. This makes it very easy for the secondary panic to build and cause a spiral to form. Unfortunately, there is very little that can be done for Akathisia except wait it out, and it does resolve on its own, given time.

 

All the outside stress and allergies are not helping the issue, because they can cause very similar symptoms. As can most of the medications used to control them. Your small updose might help, but it will be several weeks before you will really know.

 

Acceptance and relaxation are the two biggest helps. The more you fight the situation and try to "fix it" the worse it will get. This is where the AAF comes into play. Trying to accept intense anxiety is a tough one, I found it easier to ignore it instead. It is chemical based so you can't "think your way out of it", but it can be ignored and worked around. The less you can think about it the less power it will have over you. Do everything possible to reduce your secondary panic, distraction, distraction, distraction. Pay minute attention to your work and other things you do and not allow the anxiety to prevail. It will be there as an undercurrent, but just let it be.

 

Do you swim? When I have bad allergies, I find that "running a swimming pool full of water through my sinuses really helps.

 

Get control of the secondary panic, try to ignore the really bad stuff, and let it run its course. Easier said than done, but it will help.

[Heath]

3 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Do you swim? When I have bad allergies, I find that "running a swimming pool full of water through my sinuses really helps.

 😂 yes I swim and I will flush more often.
Before this wave I had gotten to the point of no energy fatigue work, home,  recliner . My care for my self was very low. So flushing sinuses was way down on the list. 
 

thank you brass for reading through my post and the advice and encouragement!!

 

 I will say this NOT to brag on me but to brag on SA - My wife has been with me through the other fast tapers which have been similar to this.  She said “something is different. It’s happening again but you are more in control “

 

 So I’m not very good at sitting still through this. But I am better at distraction and that’s all I could do. I probably walked 20 or more miles last week.  I am gonna send in a new patent for bird houses😂. 
 

I started feeling more myself yesterday afternoon/evening. Obsessive thoughts started leaving. I slept good only waking 4 times last night. 
 

Im taking about 175 mg magnesium. Which seems to help. 
 

went to work did feel the anxious tweeks coming on a few times and just moved on . As day moved along anxiousness moved to calmness. I almost feel normal again at 6 pm. But I know it’s still there It is getting better! Iam crawling out of hell slowly 💪
 

I stopped taking the turmeric for a bit not knowing, but looking forward to starting back because it really helps with back pain. 
 

I have been documenting 
 

I want to sincerely thank you all from bottom of my heart for you advice and encouragement ! 

[Ariel]

@Heath

I'm buoyed to read that you are getting some relief. 

You are very brave to work your way through this wave. 

Sounds like you have made the most of this opportunity to expand your support system to include birds far and wide! 

If you build it they will come. I am imagining a scene like the one from (the animated classic) "Cinderella", where the birds help sew her dress, except in the Heath version, all the grateful birds come help keep you afloat through the WD wave. 

Hang in there, you're doing an awesome job. 

Healing is happening <3

[Heath]

@Ariel  Love the visual stories! It seems I stop and pay attention when I read these stories of yours and actually see the little things . I stopped and watched some birds inspecting the new bird houses this morning. Keep them coming!

[brassmonkey]

Sounds like you're getting things back under control, Excellent.

 

I really enjoy my little bird friends than hang out around my shop in the back yard. As soon as I go out, they start to show up. It's not just because of the feeder, several will just hang out for hours. On colder rainier days, when I don't go out a couple actually come to the door looking for me. Last year I was able to hand feed a couple, but this year they are a little more standoffish.

[Krisseyb]

Hey there! Read through the last couple pages to get caught up on what’s going on w you. 😉

I completely understand about the wd catching up to you. I thought I could do a one week hold, and I just think my body is too sensitive for it! So I went back to 2 week hold. 
As far as your dr that said you’re unique…wow! Good for you for keeping your mouth shut. It would have been hard for me! Haha! I wish these darn drs could understand that we are all unique and will react differently. 

I saw that your allergies are bothering you. In the middle of June, I did a health program called whole 30. Basically cut out processed foods, sugar, dairy, and legumes. Basically detox your body, then add them back in.,.and see how your body reacts. Since doing this, I feel like I have so much more energy! I follow a fb whole 30 group-and I’ve seen how it can help w allergies. It takes dedication, but might be something worth looking into? I wouldn’t have done it, except this lexapro makes me extremely tired-so I had to do something to somewhat feel normal again. It’s helped a lot! 
Some people say it helps w anxiety….. just thought I would throw it out there

take care! 
krissey

[Conner]

Nice work @Heath. Sounds like you are more in control. I just made my first drop to 9.8mg of lexapro yesterday. I’ve felt spacey,  head pressure, little foggy and not as sharp. It’s crazy what a small .2 drop will do. I probably should have gotten more stabilized as I’ve been on 10mg since February and the merry go round of meds. Im just ready to start this journey to be med free. 

[Heath]

Thanks again sincerely BM !

 

[Heath]

3 hours ago, Krisseyb said:

Hey there! Read through the last couple pages to get caught up on what’s going on w you. 😉

I completely understand about the wd catching up to you. I thought I could do a one week hold, and I just think my body is too sensitive for it! So I went back to 2 week hold. 
As far as your dr that said you’re unique…wow! Good for you for keeping your mouth shut. It would have been hard for me! Haha! I wish these darn drs could understand that we are all unique and will react differently. 

I saw that your allergies are bothering you. In the middle of June, I did a health program called whole 30. Basically cut out processed foods, sugar, dairy, and legumes. Basically detox your body, then add them back in.,.and see how your body reacts. Since doing this, I feel like I have so much more energy! I follow a fb whole 30 group-and I’ve seen how it can help w allergies. It takes dedication, but might be something worth looking into? I wouldn’t have done it, except this lexapro makes me extremely tired-so I had to do something to somewhat feel normal again. It’s helped a lot! 
Some people say it helps w anxiety….. just thought I would throw it out there

take care! 
krissey

Thanks for stopping by with encouragement! I hope you are doing well. Take it slow and easy. 
I am interested in eating to help with allergies! @Ariel advised me on this also . I will be checking on this .  Thanks again! Be well! 

 

3 hours ago, Conner said:

Nice work @Heath. Sounds like you are more in control. I just made my first drop to 9.8mg of lexapro yesterday. I’ve felt spacey,  head pressure, little foggy and not as sharp. It’s crazy what a small .2 drop will do. I probably should have gotten more stabilized as I’ve been on 10mg since February and the merry go round of meds. Im just ready to start this journey to be med free. 

Conner that’s what my wife said🤷‍♂️ .  Like BM said the second anxiety is tough. And I do struggle with it but I think I am getting better even though there is plenty of room for improvement. The previous fast tapers and dr reinstatements anxiety and symptoms would linger on for months. One thing that really helps me is learning what these symptoms are from SA.  
thanks for the encouragement and support! 

 

[Erell]

Hello @Heath ❤️ 

Yes, the secondary fear can be tough!

To be honest, I spent a long time resenting and fighting against it.

I think I had it the wrong way round: reading about trying not to add fear to our symptoms made me feel bad for having this added fear, I felt like a failure for not being able to eliminate this secondary fear.

It took me a while to understand that maybe the issue was not to try to eliminate this fear at all costs, it's there anyway, but rather to allow it to be there and to patiently teach my brain that I could do things and keep going with the presence of this fear.

 

Well, I'm still learning, and I still sometimes get caught up in this fear and its catastrophic aspect. But instead of being angry and hard on myself, I learn to thank my brain for this fear: after all, it's doing its job, it perceives a danger, a threat (whether real or not) and warns me.

And it's no wonder that our brains are in alert mode: not only because our nervous system is in chemical chaos, but also because the manifestations of this chaos can be impressive. 

 

The challenge, I think, is to gradually show our brain that it doesn't need to add this second fear, that it's okay, there's no danger. 
And this includes continuing to live with the presence of symptoms. 
And, honestly, it sounds like you're doing it! I'm inspired while reading you!

 

Another difficulty is that the brain links these symptoms to memories, hence its alert mode: it remembers that in the past the onset of these symptoms was synonymous with prolonged suffering and so it fills itself with catastrophic thoughts about downfalls, convinced that history will inevitably repeat itself.

 

The reality is that, as amazing as our brains are, they can never predict the future, no one can. It's difficult when you're in that state of fear, but I think it's important to put the possibility in front of your brain that everything will be fine. To suggest some positive "what ifs" to it. 

I mean as far as we know, we could feel way better tomorrow, so why not choose this "what if" ?

 

 

I understand and share your difficulties with this secondary fear, and I send you all my support. From what I read, you are moving forward hand in hand with your brain, and you are both learning rich lessons: thank you for the inspiration you offer, and be assured of our support in this learning. ❤️

 

Take care dear Heath.

[Heath]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:25 PM, brassmonkey said:

The majority of the symptoms you describe are good old fashion Akathisia. It may be a new symptom to you, so you are not familiar with it. This makes it very easy for the secondary panic to build and cause a spiral to form. Unfortunately, there is very little that can be done for Akathisia except wait it out, and it does resolve on its own, given time.

Brass I just thought of something. In the past years of fast tapers or dose/brand changes I have had low back muscles, butt and leg muscles tensing and releasing. Usually it is along with some extra stimulation or stress. And sometimes a neck and shoulder. And it has always went away. I have actually logged it in my intro several times. 
 

I remember first time I experienced this was after a Paxil cold turkey and reinstatement years ago. 
 

So I guess my thought or question is ,Is this a symptom of akathisia ? 
 

I feel like the answer is yes and I didn’t know what it was all these years. I always thought it was anxiety, but I never experienced before these drugs.
 

I will read on SA more about it

 

It does seem like this time also stress and stimulation is making it a little worse and relaxation and excercise is helping .

 

thanks

[brassmonkey]

Akathisia is the inner restlessness, the need to get up and pace/can't sit still symptoms you describe. Muscle tension, especially in the legs and back are a different symptom. They can happen at the same time or alone. The muscle tension should respond well to stretching and yoga. My favorite for lower back is the Child/Tortoise pose.

[Heath]

53 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Akathisia is the inner restlessness, the need to get up and pace/can't sit still symptoms you describe. Muscle tension, especially in the legs and back are a different symptom. They can happen at the same time or alone. The muscle tension should respond well to stretching and yoga. My favorite for lower back is the Child/Tortoise pose.

I understand the tension and need for stretching.  this is a little different. 
The symptom that I mentioned is like standing still in one place and leg and but muscles just tense up and then release. Within seconds. Does it several times Then just stop. It’s kinda involuntary. It could also be described maybe as a habitual nervous movement.  I’m just thinking out loud as way to describe it.

 

it’s like you tense a muscle then relax. But in my case it’s doing it on its own. 

Maybe that is what inner restlessness is and I call it tensing and releasing?
That’s why I am thinking it’s akathisia as you describe. 

[Ariel]

@Heath

It sounds like you might be describing muscle twitching, or a kind of tremor maybe. Is that an accurate read?

Do you experience it as a sort of shaking, almost? Or is it more like muscle spasms?

Muscle fasciculation is not unusual in WD, as far as I can tell. It can also be a side effect of psych drugs. 

I've had twitching, too. It gets better. 

Make sure you're drinking enough water and staying hydrated, as well as keeping your electrolyte balance in check. 

Nervous system stimulants such as caffeine can exacerbate twitching, stay away from those if you don't already. 

Stress and anxiety can make things worse, as you know. 

It's probably helpful that you're taking magnesium. 

You're doing a great job taking care of yourself, Heath. 

Hang in there. The symptoms are temporary, they will pass. 

Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously feel it <3

 

[Heath]

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

@Heath

It sounds like you might be describing muscle twitching, or a kind of tremor maybe. Is that an accurate read?

Do you experience it as a sort of shaking, almost? Or is it more like muscle spasms?

Muscle fasciculation is not unusual in WD, as far as I can tell. It can also be a side effect of psych drugs. 

I've had twitching, too. It gets better. 

Make sure you're drinking enough water and staying hydrated, as well as keeping your electrolyte balance in check. 

Nervous system stimulants such as caffeine can exacerbate twitching, stay away from those if you don't already. 

Stress and anxiety can make things worse, as you know. 

It's probably helpful that you're taking magnesium. 

You're doing a great job taking care of yourself, Heath. 

Hang in there. The symptoms are temporary, they will pass. 

Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously feel it ❤️

 

Ariel 

I have had the twitching before and this is not that. It’s not a tremor but I did have those last week. 
 

It’s like if you’re meditating or trying to ground yourself and you tighten your muscles and hold then release BUT this is not voluntary. It’s like a nervous movement. And stress can make it worse. So I kinda put it in that akathisia category. 

I just want everyone to know this is NOT a painful unbearable symptom. I am just curious after BM told me about the akathisia. I’m reading more about it. And things that have happened over the years are kinda adding up. 
 

This is something that I have noticed over the years during fast tapers and dr reinstatements. And I have been noticing it about one month prior to last weeks wave and still do some. 
 

And yes the caffeine has been no problem to let go but the nicotine is a major struggle to let go. Trying to stay at zero atm 

 

And I am trying to monitor myself and keep myself in balance. Iam paying more attention to heat, dust, pollen, stressful work situations and negative people. I think that’s how I got in trouble as everyone said the perfect storm.

Y’all helped me so much last week! I do not know where I would be today without everyone here at SA! 

I love SA and am so thankful for you all! 
👍

[Heath]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:25 AM, Erell said:

And it's no wonder that our brains are in alert mode: not only because our nervous system is in chemical chaos, but also because the manifestations of this chaos can be impressive. 

 

On 7/20/2022 at 1:25 AM, Erell said:

Another difficulty is that the brain links these symptoms to memories, hence its alert mode: it remembers that in the past the onset of these symptoms was synonymous with prolonged suffering and so it fills itself with catastrophic thoughts about downfalls, convinced that history will inevitably repeat itself.

Erell I m rereading for perspective.
yes this yes this is what I struggle with! The history!  The fast taper failure memory. 
I was at work this morning and I m sitting there listening to boss man telling me things and my brain started thinking then I started have a cold/hot feeling like fight or flight .  How will I ever get off this poison thought just kept rolling in. Allergies cause waves. I have bad allergies. On and on. And I walked over to my job and started working- distraction. Thoughts stopped. 
 

I will try and update soon . 

 I am still nervous/anxious in mornings and calm in evenings. Which that in itself is improvement and healing ✔️
Sleep is good ✔️with vivid dreams. 
 

[Ariel]

@Heath

 

2 hours ago, Heath said:

And I walked over to my job and started working- distraction. Thoughts stopped. 

 

This is a real triumph and no small feat. Give yourself lots of credit for your awareness in the situation, taking control by applying a non-drug coping technique (distraction), and achieving excellent results! 

 

You're doing an awesome job. 

Healing is happening <3

[Heath]

Had anxiety today and left work. 
went to my gp dr and urologist yesterday.  Read to much yesterday and last night about lowering psa and A1c. Didn’t sleep as good woke up early and made breakfast. Then talked to another friend that had high psa numbers . Then read about it some more. Then got to work and had to work outside. 94 degrees f and hot sun . 
anxiety started anger about dr , a little nicotine and then later some chest pains but and leg muscles tensing and releasing. Pacing in the house. Hot and cold.  Left and went home. I want to walk but is too hot.
 

Still having anxiety! 
any fast tip reminders for stopping this panic anxiety ?

Im struggling yall

 

I am trying to distract. 
 

[Heath]

The thoughts are awful round and round

[Heath]

2 teaspoons of magnesium 

[Frogie]

@Heath

 

I can see why you have so much anxiety. It seems like the world crashed down on you today. I've been there, done that for many, many, many years. So I empathize, not sympathize with you.

 

First, sit down where it's cool and breathe. Tell yourself you are ok, it's just anxiety and it is going to go away.

 

I haven't used this video I'm attaching, but you might take a look at it.

 

The FASTEST Way to Stop a Panic Attack - Dr. Berg

 

You are going to be ok. Hang in there.

[Ariel]

Hi @Heath

Sorry you're getting slammed right now.

Good idea to distract. 

Have you tried some physical techniques, for example taking a very cold shower? Freezing cold, as cold as you can stand it, for as long as you can stand it. You could also try plunging your face into a big bowl or pot of ice water. Or anything else with icy cold water. 

That's something that sometimes helps me "snap out of it", at least temporarily. Repeat as needed.

Sending you big hugs!

A. 

[Heath]

@Frogie my daughter offered to take me to the gym walking inside. What do you think? 

[Frogie]

@Heath

 

If it's cool inside, go for a walk by all means. It will probably calm you down. Just take it slow.

[Heath]

Having cold chills inside and prickly skin outside. Is this part of anxiety 

[Frogie]

Anxiety can rear its ugly head in many ways. But I would say yes, that can be anxiety for sure. Where you want to crawl out of your skin?

[Ariel]

Just now, Heath said:

Having cold chills inside and prickly skin outside. Is this part of anxiety 

 

That sounds familiar to me. Can be a sign of a highly activated nervous system in hyper-arousal mode. Part and parcel of WD. 

[Heath]

Ok cold water in bowl of ice water helped . Temporary but worth it. 

I cannot sit and calm myself atm it will not work. I’m  fidgety and pacing and tensing. 

 

Earlier tried other things and kept working and waited for about 6 hrs and could not get any relief then started 1/4 mg increments up to 1 1/4 mg cklonopin
but know relief 

 

it’s been 10 minutes after head dunk in ice water and it seems to be helping seriously. Im actually focused on this text and slowing down. 🙂

headed to the gym

[Frogie]

I hope the gym/walking helps. Just take it slow. Don't run a marathon😊

[Heath]

Thank you Ariel and Frogie for your quick reply! 😊

[Frogie]

You are welcome!

 

Good luck on your walk😊

[Ariel]

You're doing a great job, @Heath

I'm so proud of you! 

You got this <3

[Greatful]

oh heath, you are doing great.  The panic spiral is so easy to get sucked into.  It will pass.  

You will make it to your pillow tonight 🌞

[Conner]

Hang in there @Heath. I’m day 11 into my drop and almost had a panic attack in the gym yesterday. I started immediately thinking of my breathe. It helped a little bit. Got home, picked some weeds in the yard then cooked. I took 500mg of magnesium. Helped a little more. It’ll pass. You are not alone.