guile2: needing help on tapering olanzapine

[Shep]

5 hours ago, guile2 said:

Uncaffeinated herbal tea. Anyone tried? Plz make suggestions inside

 

Hi i havent tried herbal tea yet im wondering what works for you. Please suggest some so i can try

 

Please note I moved this post from the Symptoms & Self Care forum to here in your intro/update thread. If you use the search feature, you'll find we have existing threads for many issues during withdrawal, including herbal teas.

 

Herbal teas: Camomile, ginger, mint, etc. What helps you?

 

Feel free to add your own experience to the "Herbal teas" thread. 

 

 

[guile2]

Thanks. Im sorry im so out of it but its because ive been so drugged up from this invega shots + zyprexa being stopped in the hospital. I would like to be more social here im just not sure how other than posting in this thread. 

[Shep]

13 hours ago, guile2 said:

I would like to be more social here im just not sure how other than posting in this thread. 

 

Please see:

 

On 4/6/2023 at 10:16 AM, Onmyway said:

How to engage with others on SA? 

SA is different from other forums you may have participated in. We are dedicated to advice on tapering and general support rather than general discussions and socializing, though that may be a part of the support. 

 

Moderators are not always able to provide emotional support (we are not qualified or have the bandwidth) but you can easily provide and get peer support on the site. While the Symptoms and Self-Care portion of the website can be useful to connect to others with similar issues, a better way is to post in others' intro topics, especially those who are going through similar issues to what you are going through, i.e. withdrawing from the same drug, struggling with the same symptoms having similar family concerns and so on. Beware, however, that when you post on someone's thread you are 'a guest in their house' and do not make it all about your case. Instead offer words of support. They will likely do the same in return. However, like in real life, do not feel obligated to offer support to people that do not usually reciprocate. 

 

The people who get the most out of SA are those that engage with others and provide support as much as they seek it. You may not be always in the best frame of mind or even able to cheer on others but people appreciate even the little bit that you can do and they will do the same for you in your time of need. 

 

[guile2]

Well i have discovered a little more about herbs and roots and have had some positive experieces with side effect management with them. 

[guile2]

Well i have found a way to fully negate the awful feeling side effect from invega injections through herbs/nutrition/and other dangerous means (not drugs) just dont want to share publicly as it can possibly destabalize a person on meds. 

[guile2]

My theory on psychosis. So i get psychosis after quitting meds cold turkey... used to be psychosis was spaced out but since i got my first injection after 10 years it turned into a constant thing. My theory is that the chemistry of the brain changes after taking these drugs and it has to very very slowly revert back over years. A quick cold turkey will flood the new chemistry of the brain with additional neurotransmitters causing different things in different people because of differences in brain chemistry(but psychosis in my case). So a slow taper over many years gives the brain a chance to change its chemistry back more safely... this is my theory on why very slow tapers seem more successful to get off permanently. In fact i went too fast twice before because i kept reducing every month or so even when i had concerning symptoms. I should have stopped and waited for the brain chemistry to catch up. 

[guile2]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:24 PM, Altostrata said:

For what purpose are you supplying these notes, @guile2?

I want to apologize. I was really drugged up with invega when i made that post. Im doing better now... the injection has warn off somewhat. 

[guile2]

Well ive had some success with just letting invega injections wear off 36 days from last injection. That coupled with a diet of no processed food eaten at home (except a greek sesame bar every so often) giving up sugar eating almost all organic and juicing organic vegetables and organic herbal teas. So far no significant withdrawal (but its only been 36 days since last injection.) I did feel some withdrawal sensations but i ate some herbal root that got rid of it asap (although it caused a concerning mental symptom)

[Shep]

@guile2 Sounds like you're slowly healing, Guile2. This is great to read. 

 

How is your sleep? 

[guile2]

14 minutes ago, Shep said:

@guile2 Sounds like you're slowly healing, Guile2. This is great to read. 

 

How is your sleep? 

I read a post on madinamerica about harowitz saying that receptor occupancy can be still half as strong on 2mg than it is on 40mg so im a little worried about psychotic symptoms when the medication injections are at a low dose. So far so good though and i have significantly better body sensations from a mostly all natural organic diet. When i eat processed food it makes me have significant brain fog (maybe the food chemicals in it mix with my medication). I have non24 so i always eventually go around the clock with my sleep but i am getting a decent amount. 

[Shep]

I agree regarding processed food - many of us have to go on strict elimination diets during our recovery. 

 

Very glad to read your sleep is good. Sounds like you're doing the right things for your diet.

 

Are you getting every day for a walk in the sun, preferably in nature, when the weather is good? 

[guile2]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

I agree regarding processed food - many of us have to go on strict elimination diets during our recovery. 

 

Very glad to read your sleep is good. Sounds like you're doing the right things for your diet.

 

Are you getting every day for a walk in the sun, preferably in nature, when the weather is good? 

Yes i love to walk outside. I try to walk everyday. Honestly the ability to walk for me is nutrition related. When i stopped processed foods and starting eating a lot of organic fruits for snack times and juicing organic vegetables as well as a natural diet of organic and just naturally grown food without processing i noticed a change in my ability to exercise (i weigh 300ibs from zyprexa weight gain for 5 years but walking seems easier from the diet.) (I still eat at indian restuarants and vietnamese restuarants and mexican restuarants or a non-fast-food burger and fries every so often.)

[guile2]

Deleted by guile

(it was a nutrition youtube video)

[guile2]

On 1/1/2023 at 3:52 PM, Altostrata said:

Good to hear you've adjusted your antipsychotic and you're committed to tapering more gradually.

 

Going off your antipsychotic is serious business. We don't like to see people bouncing into the hospital and getting a higher drug dosage and maybe other drugs added. This cancels out any effort we've put into peer support and any progress you've made in reducing your drug burden.

 

Best for the new year -- keep to your resolution to reduce very carefully!

I love the quote in your signiture. Its become my favorite quote of all time

[guile2]

Well i got some egyptian grown organic fennel seeds brand "u.s. wellness international" on amazon. (1pound 13.99) thanks to a no processed chemical food diet interfering, natural food has positive effects on me most times. Chewing some of these seeds turned around feeling drugged an unable to do anything to being able to clean my apartment and more functional (on invega injections about 40 days since the two monthly injections). 

 

(I doubt this will do anything for anyone eating processed food or sugar or other sugar substitute because food chemicals mask theuraputic reactions to natural food)

[Altostrata]

If it's been 40 days since the last injection, it's probably worn off.

[guile2]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

If it's been 40 days since the last injection, it's probably worn off.

So they gave me 400mg in two injections. The half life is 25-49 days according to this thread 

 

 

Since i still feel drugged and food is still causing drug reactions positive and negative i assume its still present. 

 

According to a madinamerica facebook post about harowitz' research sometimes these drugs can be full strength at 40mg and still be causing half the neurotransmittor effect at 2mg... since the invega was 400mg 40 days ago with half life of 25-40 days i assume it hasnt warn off. Im expecting some major withdrawal symptoms(including psychosis) when it gets to the low mgs. 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, guile2 said:

half life of 25-40 days

 

This means half will wear off in 25-40 days.

[guile2]

36 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

This means half will wear off in 25-40 days.

Actually 25-49 days i misquoted so i assume its about a little less strong in my body than half as strong after 40 days . Since the beggining doses of invega were two injections and almost twice as strong as the monthly injection of the highest monthly dose regularly im not confident that im out of the woods yet on withdrawal. Im expecting it to start in a major way when it wears off more. 

 

To give some idea of what ive been going through i was drugged out of my mind until about 1.5 weeks ago and feel still quite drugged so im thinking it is still strong...

[guile2]

Well this is cool. Whenever i need a pick-me-up from invega bad feelings side effect i just chew some organic egyptian fennel seeds i got. Seems like they do the trick. 

 

(Of course im on an only natural foods diet so the theuraputic nature of organically grown plants is not masked by processed food chemicals pestice sprays or unnatural fertilizers that mess with the nature of plants)

[guile2]

Well i cut gluten out of my diet and i only eat food without food chemicals in it and mostly unprocessed but i have to say Anthonys organic Cassava flour effected me well after making porridge out of it. Didnt cause any brain fog like processed food with chemicals in it makes me feel. Anthonys,u.s. wellness, and frontier coop have legitimate organic things packaged in the US and gluten free. 

[guile2]

Well things heated up like i suspected... day 51-55 since two injections with a 25-49 day half life. Felt some withdrawal today and my psychotic problems were worse. I drank some organic alma powder from Anthonys organics which took away the feeling of withdrawal but didnt alleviate the psychotic problems as much as i would have wanted. Still pretty nice to take away the feeling of withdrawal (tried 4 organic alma brands and only anthonys was legit organic in my opinion. Too ez to buy nonorganic products and sell as organic or mill the product on contaminated machinary or on chemical cleaned machinary). In any case i hope to avoid the hospital inpatient but i have a feeling these injection tapers will get nasty as i self tapered a haldol injection which caused the worst and unusual psychosis episode i ever had which had never happened that way in the past. 

 

 

[guile2]

Interesting. I got voices after buying a blanket. When i smelled it i got voices thst went away when not being close to the blanket. It wss full of some type of polish chemicals that got all over my hands. When i would smell my hands voices when washed them no voices. This happened a lot until i took the blanket off my bed. I also felt drugged up when it was close to me. So um i believe these psych drugs have made me sensitive to unnatural chemicals. 

[Shep]

@guile2 You may be interested in this video on dealing with voices:

 

Compassion for Voices: a tale of courage and hope video (5 minute)

 

Take good care of yourself until you get through this phase of withdrawal where you're extra sensitive to things. 

[guile2]

12 hours ago, Shep said:

@guile2 You may be interested in this video on dealing with voices:

 

Compassion for Voices: a tale of courage and hope video (5 minute)

 

Take good care of yourself until you get through this phase of withdrawal where you're extra sensitive to things. 

Yes but its interesting that with my diet and herbs roots teas and other organic natural plants and seeds and not eating food chemicals and as little processed food as possible ive been able to help myself and heal significantly. (Then my landlord enters my apartment without my permission when im away and sprays pesticides without my permission). 

[guile2]

Well its been almost two months since injections. No pills for two months. This doesnt mean im off meds though. The half life was 25-49 days supposidly and i took 1.75 times the highest dose 56-60 days ago (two injections) so id say it might be about 1/3rd-1/2 still in my body which is about 133mg -200mg and the medium monthly dose is 156mg so id say im maybe on close to the medium monthly dose still? 

 

 

 

 

[guile2]

I'm glad to be here

[guile2]

Just want to say im still here. And um. I have decided to try slow tapering. I successfully got off of zyprexa though but now im stuck on invega and took vraylar for 9 days to stabalize me recently. Letting the invega injection wear off worked initiallly for 2.5 months but ended in failure. 

 

 

[guile2]

On 8/22/2023 at 10:29 PM, guile2 said:

Just want to say im still here. And um. I have decided to try slow tapering. I successfully got off of zyprexa though but now im stuck on invega and took vraylar for 9 days to stabalize me recently. Letting the invega injection wear off worked initiallly for 2.5 months but ended in failure. 

 

 

So um there is a lot of things i do for self care besides medication such as diet and plant related that helps me significantly while on these medications if anyone is interested i can talk about it and i was thinking of making a video discussing the different plants roots and seeds i regularly use as well as plant powders and their effects on me and my brain/symptom health. I just didnt want to publisize broadly as this is a public site for people not even mentally ill to view. 

 

Um i have to clarify theres no marajuwana use for my american friends who are always told that only marawana is the only plant in the world for anything health related. (Ignorance is large sometimes)

[guile2]

I created a discord chat server for anyone thats interested 

 

https://discord.gg/EZakKTFfR4

 

 

[purple]

Thanks for letting us know you're still here, @guile2. It's always hard on these forums when people stop checking in and we are left to wonder. Though of course, people have their reasons and circumstances.

[guile2]

Thank you. Somebody cares. I was in the hospital 12 times this year with symptoms. 

[N2deep]

Hi Guile2, I just wanted to stop by and say I've read much of your thread and I hope you've been getting on ok since your last post.

[purple]

I'm so sorry to hear about the hospitalizations. That's a lot in one year. I hope your amount of visits can decrease year after year.

[guile2]

Ok so ive been on invega shots for about 6 shots. Ive been on 234mg shots. When i tried to cold turkey my thought became all voices and racing and around 2.8months i end up being hospitalized. This is 31 days after the last shot now i want to take a lower dose. I was thinking trying 1.5mg pills twice a day and let the injection wear off. I wasnt sure if this would be adequate to stop racing thinking and thoughts coming in voices. Another concern is my insurance will only cover the generic pills while the injections were name brand so im uncertain if it will be the exact same thing or if i will have withdrawal from the shots and extra side effects from the pills if its not. I need advice. Thanks for the responses they are appreciated. 

[hayduke]

14 hours ago, guile2 said:

Ok so ive been on invega shots for about 6 shots. Ive been on 234mg shots. When i tried to cold turkey my thought became all voices and racing and around 2.8months i end up being hospitalized. This is 31 days after the last shot now i want to take a lower dose. I was thinking trying 1.5mg pills twice a day and let the injection wear off. I wasnt sure if this would be adequate to stop racing thinking and thoughts coming in voices. Another concern is my insurance will only cover the generic pills while the injections were name brand so im uncertain if it will be the exact same thing or if i will have withdrawal from the shots and extra side effects from the pills if its not. I need advice. Thanks for the responses they are appreciated. 

It's the same drug in your system.  Same for generics.

I haven't got to the point of crossing over to tablets yet, so I have no personal experience to share there.  There is some discussion in https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7101-tips-for-tapering-off-invega-paliperidone/

 

 

It seems likely you will have to manage the amount you take orally as the injection wears off.  1.5mg might initially be enough while there is still a reasonable amount of the injection in your system, though the oral equivalent of 234mg is listed as 6mg tab/day by the drug company and you may need to come up to that to keep your symptoms at bay.

No more cold turkeys please!

Edited November 8, 2023 by hayduke