Mezzer: cold turkey

[Mezzer]

@Altostrata
7-2-23

8:30am  ate breakfast took 5.45mgs Prozac. Slight cortisol up.

9:00 took 5000mcg b12, 1700mcg methyl folate, 350mgs mag glycinat.

12 noon lunch (sardines) kind of numb but managing.

1-3 pm was out and about. Slight anxiety. 
4 pm rested to calm myself down

5:30 dinner then took 1800mgs omega 3s

rest of night watched TV

 

7-3-23

woke 8:00 took 5.45mgs Prozac.

8:15 had breakfast, took new B complex, 350mgs mag gycinate.

8:30 anxiety started ramping up.

9:30-10am anxiety and panic hit hard.

panic was steady all day, severe fatigue, balance and vision issues. Think the b complex caused problems.

presently 6:15 and the symptoms are still hitting hard. 

 

[Altostrata]

14 hours ago, Mezzer said:

took new B complex

 

As you know, if you keep changing your drugs, mixing up your own cocktails, and making your own taper schedule, we can't help you.

 

Have you reviewed the normal instructions for vitamin B12 and folate supplementation? It's not a good idea to make up your own rules. For most supplements, more is not better.

[Mezzer]

@Altostrata I don’t understand about my own cocktails. Are you meaning supplements? How can I get a tapering schedule from you? What drug changes are you referring to please? 

[Mezzer]

@Altostrata alto my symptoms have not really changed much from the time I was CTed off the cymbalta with the failed crossover to Prozac then with a short term run of nortryptilene thrown in. They just seemed to have gotten more intense since getting lower on the Prozac. The symptoms (on tough days) are mostly strong anxiety (staying home kind), anhedonia, intrusive past thoughts and fears, exhaustion, blurred vision. Late at night things settle down. I’ve never really gone more than a couple of months on a hold. I always felt the damage was from the cymbalta CT. One of your sections about stabilization says being perfectly stable is not what stability means. It meant being able to manage where you are so you can continue. That’s what I’ve been basing my tapers on. Please give me some better guidance if you can. 

[Altostrata]

Stop taking the vitamin B supplements.

 

Did you look up from a reliable source such as NIH how much B12 and folate you should be taking in supplements?

 

If you read Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac), you will see there is no schedule, the rule of thumb is reduce by 10% of the last dose per month.

[Mezzer]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Stop taking the vitamin B supplements.

 

Did you look up from a reliable source such as NIH how much B12 and folate you should be taking in supplements?

 

If you read Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac), you will see there is no schedule, the rule of thumb is reduce by 10% of the last dose per month.

@Altostrata thanks alto. I did look it up a couple days ago and it seems 500mcg is the daily requirement. I was using massive doses. I took 500mcg this morning instead of the usual 5000mcg. I also stopped the folate as the new 500mcg is methylcobalamin which I believe replaces the folate to help get the vitamin in the system. Can you let me know why you recommend stopping the vitamin B? 

 

I must admit I’m also well versed on the 10% pre month but am guilty of not being strict about it. Emotions, waves and irrational reasoning can cause disruptions in plans. This place has been a guiding light for me through this. Thank you,  Bill 

[Altostrata]

1 minute ago, Mezzer said:

Can you let me know why you recommend stopping the vitamin B? 

 

Because you reported an adverse effect from it.

 

Folate is not the same as B12. You get folate from fruits and vegetables.

 

Up to you to manage your taper so you don't get withdrawal symptoms.

[Mezzer]

Hi All, I’ve been hurting pretty bad the last few days. Hoping to recover from what I think are symptoms from my last drop. I’m learning the hard way to go slow slow.  So sad and anxious, run down. I seem to be in a state of fear of never coming out of this. Head feels like it’s filled with cotton. I keep praying and hope faith will keep me going. Anyone else dealing with symptoms? Just feeling alone and in need of some hope. Been just under two years of a tough ride. 

[littlebird]

23 minutes ago, Mezzer said:

I’m learning the hard way to go slow slow.

So true!

 

24 minutes ago, Mezzer said:

Anyone else dealing with symptoms? Just feeling alone and in need of some hope. Been just under two years of a tough ride. 

Yup, had a rash of nightmares after my latest drop and it really messed up my waking hours too! It's getting better, but whew all these symptoms are rough. Then I think about how awful I felt when they were full strength and it doesn't seem so bad. Our bodies can and do heal! It sometimes just takes time.

[Mezzer]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

So true!

 

Yup, had a rash of nightmares after my latest drop and it really messed up my waking hours too! It's getting better, but whew all these symptoms are rough. Then I think about how awful I felt when they were full strength and it doesn't seem so bad. Our bodies can and do heal! It sometimes just takes time.

Thank you @littlebird the fear really tears me up with a mind that thinks this is as best as it gets. Grateful for the support. Hoping your symptoms drop off quickly 

[RachelSusan]

@Mezzer I am feeling like sh*t.  You've got company my friend. Hang in there.

[Mezzer]

29 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

@Mezzer I am feeling like sh*t.  You've got company my friend. Hang in there.

@RachelSusan same here and wishing us a long window.🙏🙏🙏

[RachelSusan]

@Mezzer Right now I would take ANY window. Long, short, whatever. I think that you might be feeling the same way.

[Mezzer]

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

@Mezzer Right now I would take ANY window. Long, short, whatever. I think that you might be feeling the same way.

@RachelSusan you got that right. I’ve had the worst couple months of windows and waves I’ve had in a long time. I constantly pray for healing. Trying to stay positive and hopeful is so challenging at times 

[Mezzer]

15 hours ago, littlebird said:

So true!

 

Yup, had a rash of nightmares after my latest drop and it really messed up my waking hours too! It's getting better, but whew all these symptoms are rough. Then I think about how awful I felt when they were full strength and it doesn't seem so bad. Our bodies can and do heal! It sometimes just takes time.

Thank you @littlebird the fear really tears me up with a mind that thinks this is as best as it gets. Grateful for the support. Hoping your symptoms drop off quickly 

[littlebird]

7 hours ago, Mezzer said:

Thank you @littlebird the fear really tears me up with a mind that thinks this is as best as it gets.

Naaaaaaaah, the best is coming. This is just the rocky "getting to better" part. 

[Mezzer]

@littlebird @RachelSusan hope you guys are both doing well as can be. I seem to be holding my own today. Wishing all easy acceptance and patience through this crazy time 

[RachelSusan]

@Mezzer Glad you are holding your own. I hope for continued improvement for both of us.

[Mezzer]

Hi members, has anyone had a major surgery going through withdrawals? I maybe getting a knee replace soon as I’ve waited maybe longer than I should have. My concern the the anesthesia and pain meds after affecting me negatively. Any support would be great appreciated. Thank you guys 

[Onmyway]

@Mezzer please do not start any new introduction topics. You have been warned before. You only get one topic per person. 

 

Please search for the topic you need when using the search function. 

 

This way you create extra work for us and we are all volunteers trying to help people with limited time - we have a large number of people to help and this is detracting from our real work. 

OMW

Edited July 16, 2023 by Onmyway

[Mezzer]

@Onmyway got it. Sorry about that. 

[Greatful]

@Mezzer  I thought I would drop by on your thread instead of answering you on someone else's thread.

From your intro it looks like you and I are in the long timers group LOL the ones that have been on these so called

happy pills for manyyyyyy yearsssss.😓  We have to hold on the the inspiration and evidence  from the ones that have healed from this.  We can get through this and life a live without these Happy Pills. 

I recently started to listen to Angie Peacock and some of her interviews on You tube.. She was  is a survivor from many different drugs and  benzo's.  If you ever watched Medicating Normal, she is the veteran on it. I think she was/is a member here on SA at one time too.   I do not know what name she was under though.   So if any one reading this can tell me  I would appreciate if you could let me know. 

 

Anyway,   I find it can be  helpful to find success stories to read/watch/listen too.     

 

Hang in there, you can do this. 🌞You are getting so close,  5.45mg of Prozac.

 

 

[Mezzer]

5 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Mezzer  I thought I would drop by on your thread instead of answering you on someone else's thread.

From your intro it looks like you and I are in the long timers group LOL the ones that have been on these so called

happy pills for manyyyyyy yearsssss.😓  We have to hold on the the inspiration and evidence  from the ones that have healed from this.  We can get through this and life a live without these Happy Pills. 

I recently started to listen to Angie Peacock and some of her interviews on You tube.. She was  is a survivor from many different drugs and  benzo's.  If you ever watched Medicating Normal, she is the veteran on it. I think she was/is a member here on SA at one time too.   I do not know what name she was under though.   So if any one reading this can tell me  I would appreciate if you could let me know. 

 

Anyway,   I find it can be  helpful to find success stories to read/watch/listen too.     

 

Hang in there, you can do this. 🌞You are getting so close,  5.45mg of Prozac.

 

 

Hi my new friend, I pray daily to get through this. Thank you for the support. Angie is cool. She runs a some support groups for people tapering. I belong to one. You should join up if interested. Very reasonable. Nicole lamberson has a success story I really enjoy. It’s with Peter Eliasberg. Search Peter Eliasberg on YouTube and it will pop up. Hope it heips. Us long timers need all the help we can get 

[Mezzer]

Hi SI folk, I would like to ask for some support on a symptom that affects me the most at this point in healing and tapering. I am experiencing many embarrassing, shameful, negative moments from my past on an elevated and continuous basis and it’s making me crazy. Please someone tell me this is a normal part of withdrawal. I would love to hear one person tell me they’ve experienced This symptom. It really is mentally debilitating. So thankful for Alto keeping this place alive. 

[wantrelief]

Hi @Mezzer:  I wanted to reassure you that I too experience what you have described pretty often.  It is a challenging symptom for sure as it is so difficult to relive these painful memories.  I treat it like any other intrusive thought by acknowledging the thought, labeling it as a withdrawal symptom and then I try to let it go.  I also try to be gentle for myself and forgive myself for whatever the memory is as usually it is something that I feel badly about, like how I treated someone in the past. The same memories will come back though so it is something I just have to keep doing over and over again....it is quite maddening. 

I hope it helps to know you are not alone. 💖

[Mezzer]

9 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

Hi @Mezzer:  I wanted to reassure you that I too experience what you have described pretty often.  It is a challenging symptom for sure as it is so difficult to relive these painful memories.  I treat it like any other intrusive thought by acknowledging the thought, labeling it as a withdrawal symptom and then I try to let it go.  I also try to be gentle for myself and forgive myself for whatever the memory is as usually it is something that I feel badly about, like how I treated someone in the past. The same memories will come back though so it is something I just have to keep doing over and over again....it is quite maddening. 

I hope it helps to know you are not alone. 💖

@wantrelief Thank you very much. Knowing I’m not alone helps a lot. They are relentless in the beating. I try my best to think they are symptoms but as you know it’s a work in progress. Blessings to you and your healing. 

[wantrelief]

1 hour ago, Mezzer said:

Thank you very much. Knowing I’m not alone helps a lot. They are relentless in the beating. I try my best to think they are symptoms but as you know it’s a work in progress.

I am so glad it helps to know you are not alone.  Relentless is a good word for it. Ugh. And, yes, dealing with this as well as other symptoms is a work in progress for me too.  

 

1 hour ago, Mezzer said:

Blessings to you and your healing. 

Aw, thank you.....same to you, Mezzer.

[Onmyway]

Oh dear, this was so pronounced for me in the first year - it was, as you say, relentless. I cried for a few days because I had hit another child in 2nd grade and felt horrible about it. But most of the other things were things I should have done and didn't do and mistakes I made and 'what if's. There was a lot of "should"-ing and "should have done"-ing. This felt like a midlife crisis on steroids. I don't think anyone has been as cruel to me or to others in the same way I was cruel to myself during this period. If I had been my own parent I would have have had child-me taken away from parent-me based on the sheer emotional abuse. I had long conversations with family members rehashing things where they pleaded with me to stop living in the past and let go of what tiny/petty/little things have happened. 

 

I had to learn to forgive myself for all the mistakes and convince myself that I did the best I could at that time and there was no other way to have done things given my history, given who I am and given the limited information I had. It is easy to judge things from years in the future. 

 

I have had spirited discussions on free-will with a lot of people and my view that this was inevitable solidified during those times (I reserve the right to change that again if/when evidence comes my way). That somehow helped. It does leave difficult consequences such as - "Then what?" but I have some answers to that. 

 

I hate saying this while I am in the middle of a wave that has been relentless in its own way but withdrawal has been a learning and growth experience for me despite the horrible suffering. It shook me to the core of my being, made me so vulnerable I did not think I would get through and sometimes it still does but it also made me rethink a lot of things I had done and learn from my mistakes, most of which had harmed me (not others). It also pushed me to befriend myself - something I am still working on. 

 

I don't know if I am a better person for having this experience but I am a more thoughtful and self-aware person for sure. This awful experience has 'proofed' me the way we 'proof' though - we punch it down and let it expand again. I sure hope that there isn't as much suffering in the last stretches. 

 

This will get better @Mezzer. It really will. Withdrawal is everchanging  - this symptom will go away, something else will come. 

 

I like @wantrelief's suggestion to label it as withdrawal and let it go. And for the times when that doesn't work, forgive yourself. 

 

These might be helpful:

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Onmyway

[Altostrata]

This seems to be a common psychological symptom of withdrawal.

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

"Change the channel" - dealing with cognitive symptoms

[Mezzer]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

This seems to be a common psychological symptom of withdrawal.

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

"Change the channel" - dealing with cognitive symptoms

@Altostrata thanks Alto I remember you mentioning it in a town hall meeting. Big fan 

[Mezzer]

1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

Oh dear, this was so pronounced for me in the first year - it was, as you say, relentless. I cried for a few days because I had hit another child in 2nd grade and felt horrible about it. But most of the other things were things I should have done and didn't do and mistakes I made and 'what if's. There was a lot of "should"-ing and "should have done"-ing. This felt like a midlife crisis on steroids. I don't think anyone has been as cruel to me or to others in the same way I was cruel to myself during this period. If I had been my own parent I would have have had child-me taken away from parent-me based on the sheer emotional abuse. I had long conversations with family members rehashing things where they pleaded with me to stop living in the past and let go of what tiny/petty/little things have happened. 

 

I had to learn to forgive myself for all the mistakes and convince myself that I did the best I could at that time and there was no other way to have done things given my history, given who I am and given the limited information I had. It is easy to judge things from years in the future. 

 

I have had spirited discussions on free-will with a lot of people and my view that this was inevitable solidified during those times (I reserve the right to change that again if/when evidence comes my way). That somehow helped. It does leave difficult consequences such as - "Then what?" but I have some answers to that. 

 

I hate saying this while I am in the middle of a wave that has been relentless in its own way but withdrawal has been a learning and growth experience for me despite the horrible suffering. It shook me to the core of my being, made me so vulnerable I did not think I would get through and sometimes it still does but it also made me rethink a lot of things I had done and learn from my mistakes, most of which had harmed me (not others). It also pushed me to befriend myself - something I am still working on. 

 

I don't know if I am a better person for having this experience but I am a more thoughtful and self-aware person for sure. This awful experience has 'proofed' me the way we 'proof' though - we punch it down and let it expand again. I sure hope that there isn't as much suffering in the last stretches. 

 

This will get better @Mezzer. It really will. Withdrawal is everchanging  - this symptom will go away, something else will come. 

 

I like @wantrelief's suggestion to label it as withdrawal and let it go. And for the times when that doesn't work, forgive yourself. 

 

These might be helpful:

 

@Onmyway thank you much. That’s great wisdom and I’m going to use it to soften the beatings I give myself. Easier said than done I know but will keep plugging. Thank you for sharing during a tough time. Much gratitude. 

[Altostrata]

These surges of withdrawal-induced shame are difficult, but they give you practice in forgiving yourself -- a valuable life skill.

[Onmyway]

22 hours ago, Mezzer said:

@Onmyway thank you much. That’s great wisdom and I’m going to use it to soften the beatings I give myself. Easier said than done I know but will keep plugging. Thank you for sharing during a tough time. Much gratitude. 

There is an IFS technique of befriending the tormentor. IFS is a therapeutic modality that considers the human psyche as a multiplicity - i.e. we all have multiple parts - the inner critic, the inner child etc. IFS goes a bit further than most in saying we have a theoretically infinite number of parts. Sometimes those parts can be in conflict - i.e. I want to lose weight but I also want to eat the cake etc. Some of these parts can be critical. 

 

One technique to soften the assaults of a critic is to understand that that part is doing this for a reason - to protect you from some perceived threat or hurt. Try to inquire within what this part is scared of, what it wants from you, what does it think will happen if you didn't feel ashamed bad the way it wants you to. As you listen inside you will realize that this part has good intentions (hard to believe after such relentless assaults) and as you go through that with curiosity the part softens and the assaults may lessen. 

 

I am not promoting IFS in any way (it has its criticisms) but I would like to say that this counterintuitive technique helps when nothing else does. The key is to observe the part rather than get sucked into its criticism. Here is a bit more if you wanted to learn more. 

https://www.pesi.com/blog/details/1511/6-step-ifs-process-to-jumpstart-healing#:~:text=We do this by walking,parts with your clients...

 

Radical acceptance and forgiveness is easier when possible. But when nothing gives, the above technique may help. 

Hope you are feeling better. 
OMW

[Mezzer]

15 hours ago, Onmyway said:

There is an IFS technique of befriending the tormentor. IFS is a therapeutic modality that considers the human psyche as a multiplicity - i.e. we all have multiple parts - the inner critic, the inner child etc. IFS goes a bit further than most in saying we have a theoretically infinite number of parts. Sometimes those parts can be in conflict - i.e. I want to lose weight but I also want to eat the cake etc. Some of these parts can be critical. 

 

One technique to soften the assaults of a critic is to understand that that part is doing this for a reason - to protect you from some perceived threat or hurt. Try to inquire within what this part is scared of, what it wants from you, what does it think will happen if you didn't feel ashamed bad the way it wants you to. As you listen inside you will realize that this part has good intentions (hard to believe after such relentless assaults) and as you go through that with curiosity the part softens and the assaults may lessen. 

 

I am not promoting IFS in any way (it has its criticisms) but I would like to say that this counterintuitive technique helps when nothing else does. The key is to observe the part rather than get sucked into its criticism. Here is a bit more if you wanted to learn more. 

https://www.pesi.com/blog/details/1511/6-step-ifs-process-to-jumpstart-healing#:~:text=We do this by walking,parts with your clients...

 

Radical acceptance and forgiveness is easier when possible. But when nothing gives, the above technique may help. 

Hope you are feeling better. 
OMW

@Onmyway OMW I think I have done this with a therapist last year. She trained for Internal Family Systems. I was trying to explain I was in withdrawals and I’m not sure if she truly understood the situation. It seemed to make my symptoms much stronger after leaving the sessions so I asked to stop using the technique. It was very similar to what you’ve attached. I’m not sure if is the right time to be doing this work since all thoughts of past situations seem elevated. Did you find the therapy helpful for intrusive thoughts and or self forgiveness. I’m concerned about causing more stress than what’s there presently. The therapist told me sometimes processing old hurts can cause pain after a session. Not sure how much healing can take place at the moment. 

[Altostrata]

I concluded my inner critic was trying to teach me something, so I remind myself, "okay, I learned this, I can let it go".

[Onmyway]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I concluded my inner critic was trying to teach me something, so I remind myself, "okay, I learned this, I can let it go".

The problem is when you have multiple inner critics who criticize you for the opposite behavior  Damned if you do, damned if you don't (that's what I am struggling with). 

 

9 hours ago, Mezzer said:

@Onmyway OMW I think I have done this with a therapist last year. She trained for Internal Family Systems. I was trying to explain I was in withdrawals and I’m not sure if she truly understood the situation. It seemed to make my symptoms much stronger after leaving the sessions so I asked to stop using the technique. It was very similar to what you’ve attached. I’m not sure if is the right time to be doing this work since all thoughts of past situations seem elevated. Did you find the therapy helpful for intrusive thoughts and or self forgiveness. I’m concerned about causing more stress than what’s there presently. The therapist told me sometimes processing old hurts can cause pain after a session. Not sure how much healing can take place at the moment. 

 

Trauma processing can certainly make symptoms worse for at least a bit so it WD may not be the right time to process things. My suggestion is not full on IFS therapy just the attitude of curiosity rather than suppression of the inner critic. Not giving in to the inner critic either but the gentle curiosity - "What do you want to teach me?", "What would happen if you didn't criticize me?" That can allow for subtle separation from identifying with the critic. The issue with the critic is that the more we try to suppress it, the more vicious it gets. So befriending can solve that issue. 

 

I would not advise dealing with 'exiles' in WD. I did some of that therapy for a while and I think it helped for some things but I went too into it and needed a break. Reading the newest book by Martha Sweezey on Shame and Guilt in IFS (very on topic). 

 

Please only do things that are gentle and support your healing. Some things may work for some people but not for others. Listed to your body. 

OMW