success Hibari: tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamictal

[Altostrata]

25 minutes ago, Hibari said:

There are spikes in symptoms, speediness, anxiety, headaches nausea 1/2 hour afte I take my meds. The nausea increases and so does the head pressure.  

 

And every day, since I have been tapering Lamictal only, I wake up with nausea and a headache.  As I have gotten lower there is also sweating and a cortisol spike in  anxiety that then recedes.  

 

The spikes indicate an adverse reaction to the lamotrigine doses, not withdrawal symptoms.

 

It does not look like your symptom pattern got worse after you reduced from 8.4mg, and you seem to be sleeping more. Is that correct?

 

The morning symptoms pre-lamotrigine may be breakthrough withdrawal from the overnight lamotrigine wearing off during the night. As you were taking 8.4mg per day only 12 days ago, your system is still adjusting.

 

When we get you down to where the divided doses are not causing an adverse reaction, I might suggest moving more lamotrigine into the night-time, to cover that 12 hours. Or that might not be necessary.

 

When you eliminate the two 0.10mg doses, you are tapering by only 3%. Even though overall you might be decreasing by more than 10% per month, you might consider this a micro-taper. This is a safer way of going off a drug fairly quickly, which you want to do when you have adverse effects.

 

Are you still taking the thyroid hormone? Please include that in your daily notes. There may be an interaction with lamotrigine, you should ask your psychiatrist to look it up. You might need an adjustment in your thyroid hormone dosage.

[Hibari]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

The spikes indicate an adverse reaction to the lamotrigine doses, not withdrawal symptoms.

 

It does not look like your symptom pattern got worse after you reduced from 8.4mg, and you seem to be sleeping more. Is that correct?

 

The morning symptoms pre-lamotrigine may be breakthrough withdrawal from the overnight lamotrigine wearing off during the night. As you were taking 8.4mg per day only 12 days ago, your system is still adjusting.

 

When we get you down to where the divided doses are not causing an adverse reaction, I might suggest moving more lamotrigine into the night-time, to cover that 12 hours. Or that might not be necessary.

 

When you eliminate the two 0.10mg doses, you are tapering by only 3%. Even though overall you might be decreasing by more than 10% per month, you might consider this a micro-taper. This is a safer way of going off a drug fairly quickly, which you want to do when you have adverse effects.

Out of the last 6 nights I have slept 2 and one of those might have been helped by the Valium.  The other nights I was pretty wide awake.  I'm hoping for sleep tonight.  

 

Even when I was on a higher dose of Lamictal, above 25mgs, the headache and nausea were there on the morning. I think its just innate with Lamictal.  

 

I hope the adverse symptoms subside with these micro cuts.  I will just keep moving forward.  

 

Alto, as you once said to me, I seem to be following my body's signals.  I will continue to do that and if my body says no to certain doses, I will honor that as well.  

[Altostrata]

Hang in there, your system should settle down soon.

[Hibari]

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hang in there, your system should settle down soon.

 

Well it's been a roller coaster time and not for the better.

 

On Tuesday night, I had such a horrible night of racing thoughts, agitation, fear, horrible pounding and an inability to calm down.  I think it was due to a rebound Valium reaction. 

Was very sick and mentally terrified for most of the day.   My doctor had ordered me some PharmaGaba and Kavanece to help when I step off the medication for good.

 

I decided to try the PharmaGaba because I did not want to put phenibut in my system and she said the Gaba was milder.   I started taking little bits of a single 200mg tablet and by late afternoon I started to feel better.   Continued taking small bits till I went to bed and then took a small piece along with 100mg magnesium.  I was able to sleep.   In total, I probably ended up taking 175mgs as I have about a quarter of a piece left. 

 

I continued to have my usual reaction to my Lamictal doses throughout the day-increased speediness 1/2 hour after taking it,  anxiety for about 4 hours and wanting to cry about an hour after taking the initial dose. 

 

Here is my log for Wednesday

 

Wednesday

10/31/18 

Horrible night Tuesday into Wednesday.   Racing thoughts, agitation, restless, bad headache, could not lie still, panic and fear.

Cortisol spike: Sweating, anxious, foggy head, headache, head pressure, nausea (had taken my last Tuesday dose of Lamictal at 9PM)

7:30AM 1.5 mgs Lamictal                                        1/2 later speediness, anxious, agitation, no appetite

                                                                                      Most of the day felt fearful, physically sick (stomach ache, head pressure, dizzy, had to pace the apartment, prayed, cried and hid

                                                                                      under the blankets.

11AM    1.5mg Lamictal                                           The anxiety seemed to blend in with the rest of the days symptoms, still dizzy, agitated and fearful

force myself to eat food

1:30PM  Take a 1/4 piece of PharmaGaba            At about 3PM, symptoms start to ease, still physically shaky but calmer.  Head starts to clear, still emotional, dizzy and tired. 5:00PM  1.5 mg Lamictal                                          1/2 later feel speedy but less intense, anxious.  1 hour later cry with my husband

Eat food

7:00PM take a little piece of PharmaGaba            Start to doze on the couch, do notice a headache

9:00PM   1.5 Lamictal                                               1/2 later start to feel speedy but less intense, worry about how I will feel on Thursday

Eat food

11PM  take small piece of PharmaGaba and 50mg magnisum  Feel low grade headache ( I think from the Gaba) able to sleep

 

Thursday, 11/1/18

Cortisol spike: Sweating, nausea, headache but calmer and knew I had sleep

9:30AM 1.5 Lamictal (had slept in)                    1/2 later some speediness,  45 minutes later feel like crying and also feel queasy in my stomach, foggy head

 

 

I am preparing myself to step off Lamictal.  I know I will not be able to taper down to 0 on this medication.  It is having too adverse a reaction on me and these days of being incapacitated are taking their toll.   I have to see how low I can get but I will have to make a decision soon.

 

If I had gotten some stability over the last 2 months, I would be making a different decision but I don't think that's going  to happen.  I just think that I'm getting such a clear signal from my body that after 3 years and 3 months of tapering, this med has done it's work.  All during that time I have done acupuncture, therapy and Alanon to heal and I think I have.   The medication now is interfering with my body being able to heal.

 

This in no way negates the wonderful support and advice I have received on this site and certainly recently.   It has been invaluable to me and guided me through this period with Lamictal. 

[wantrelief]

I wanted to stop by to lend you some support.  You are doing an amazing job of hanging in there despite all of these awful symptoms.  Big hugs - WR.

[Hibari]

Thank you so much WR.  That's what it feels like on certain days, hanging in there. 

 

I will stop by your thread and see how you are.  

 

[Altostrata]

Good to hear PharmaGABA helped.

 

You may not need to get to zero Lamictal.

 

You are taking pieces of a tablet for your 1.5mg doses, is that correct? Are you weighing the pieces?

 

Were you able to get 5mg or 2mg Lamictal tablets?

[Hibari]

13 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Good to hear PharmaGABA helped.

 

You may not need to get to zero Lamictal.

 

You are taking pieces of a tablet for your 1.5mg doses, is that correct? Are you weighing the pieces?

 

Were you able to get 5mg or 2mg Lamictal tablets?

Hi Alto,

 

Yes, the Gaba did help.

 

Do you have any reservations about taking it on an as needed basis?  

 

I have the 5mg tablets that I break apart to get my 1.5mg dose. I weigh the 5mg pill, calculate the dose and then weigh out the 1.5 mg.  

 

I'm now down to 6mgs in total for the day.   

[Altostrata]

No, you can take GABA as much as you want. I would take it sparingly; like most supplements, it will work a few times and then not.

 

How about taking 0.10mg off each of your Lamictal doses, for 4 doses of 1.4mg? Then you'd be down to 5.6mg for the day.

[Hibari]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

No, you can take GABA as much as you want. I would take it sparingly; like most supplements, it will work a few times and then not.

 

How about taking 0.10mg off each of your Lamictal doses, for 4 doses of 1.4mg? Then you'd be down to 5.6mg for the day.

Ok good. Yes. I haven't taken any today as I think it stayed in my system. But i may use it for sleep later. 

 

I am fine with your suggestion to drop to 5.6 in the the divided doses.  

 

Now that I have something to help with potential agitation, I feel more confident.  

Will keep you posted and thank you.  

[Altostrata]

Did you feel better today? What is your drug and symptom pattern since this morning?

[Hibari]

I have felt better today..  I felt calmer and less anxious. I was able to do laundry and go outside to the grocery store-this was a big deal since I have been very housebound.

 

Had a low grade headache all day, not horrible but I think it may be from the Gaba. Will still take it in the future.  

 

Here is my log for today.  I'm on my phone so the spacing may be off). 

Thursday, 11/1/18

Slept. 

Morning Cortisol spike: Sweating, nausea, headache, adrenaline spike, anxiety.  

9:30am  1.5mg Lamictal. 1/2 later some speediness, 45 mins later felt like crying, foggy head.  Cried with a friend.  

Had breakfast. 

2pm 1.5 Lamictal. 1/2  later speedy, anxious. Cried off and on most  of the afternoon, grief over my dog and medication tears.  Even though I was upset, it was manageable.  

Lunch 

Able to do laundry.

Went to grocery store.  

6pm 1.2 Lamictal. (To make the 5.6 reduction for today).  1/2 later low grade speediness, then tired and foggy head. More sedation then in the past. 

Dinner 

9:30pm 1.2 mg Lamictal  1/2 later a little anxious, and a little tearful.  

11pm Tired, feel med in my system but not overly hyper.  Still a little tearful. A couple of hot flashes and sweating. 

Total medication. 5.6mg 

 

  

 

 

 

[Shep]

18 hours ago, Hibari said:

I decided to try the PharmaGaba because I did not want to put phenibut in my system and she said the Gaba was milder.   I started taking little bits of a single 200mg tablet and by late afternoon I started to feel better.   Continued taking small bits till I went to bed and then took a small piece along with 100mg magnesium.  I was able to sleep.   In total, I probably ended up taking 175mgs as I have about a quarter of a piece left. 

 

Hibari, I belonged to a large benzo forum prior to coming to SA and some people who are either tapering benzos or are off can suffer setbacks using GABA supplements. Please be careful with this. 

 

On 10/30/2018 at 9:44 PM, Altostrata said:

Are you still taking the thyroid hormone? Please include that in your daily notes. There may be an interaction with lamotrigine, you should ask your psychiatrist to look it up. You might need an adjustment in your thyroid hormone dosage.

 

I wanted to come back to Alto's question because it seems to have gotten overlooked in the back and forth dialogue. I did notice the below quote about a recent thyroid med adjustment: 

 

On 10/16/2018 at 2:48 PM, Hibari said:

She also had me lower my thyroid med from 90mgs to 75mgs and we will monitor that. 

 

I came down on the initial med dose because it was too high.  Alto had given me that feedback and I also felt that the hyper feeling was about there being too much med as opposed to a wd symptom.  So I started rolling the back the daytime dose at 9.2 and then made another small reduction to 9mgs. 

 

On 10/30/2018 at 9:58 PM, Hibari said:

Out of the last 6 nights I have slept 2 and one of those might have been helped by the Valium.  The other nights I was pretty wide awake.  I'm hoping for sleep tonight.  

 

Do you feel you have gotten worse since you reduced your thyroid med? The timing is the thyroid med was reduced first, and then you added in Valium and then a GABA supplement. 

 

It's hard to tell what is causing what because there have also been changes in the lamictal dose. 

 

Please add your thyroid med in your drug and symptoms journal and also include the dose. 

[Hibari]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Hibari, I belonged to a large benzo forum prior to coming to SA and some people who are either tapering benzos or are off can suffer setbacks using GABA supplements. Please be careful with this. 

 

 

I wanted to come back to Alto's question because it seems to have gotten overlooked in the back and forth dialogue. I did notice the below quote about a recent thyroid med adjustment: 

 

 

 

Do you feel you have gotten worse since you reduced your thyroid med? The timing is the thyroid med was reduced first, and then you added in Valium and then a GABA supplement. 

 

It's hard to tell what is causing what because there have also been changes in the lamictal dose. 

 

Please add your thyroid med in your drug and symptoms journal and also include the dose. 

Hi Shep, thanks for responding.  

 

GABA In terms of the GABA, I dont plan to use it in a daily or regular basis. I was in such a bad state on Wednesday and it did seem to help.  In the past 30 hours, I have only taken the one , 200mg pill.  

I do not want to create dependence on any other supplement, so plan to use very sparingly and only when my symptoms are overwhelming.  I got some MCT Hemp oil and will be trying a small dose of that if needed.  

 

Does the Benzo groups concern with GABA have to do with dependence? 

 

THYROID I dont feel I've gotten worse since the thyroid reduction but I will do a little research on the interaction between the two medications. 

 

I have been getting worse since late August, before the thyroid reduction and seeing the new psychiatrist.  

 

The pattern has been very much related to feeling hyper each time I took a dose of my Lamotrigine. This was whether the dose was twice a day or now divided doses of 4 times a day.  

 

I agree there have been a lot of changes in the past month. The valium was a one time thing and not something I can bear doing again.  

 

If I felt any relief from the Lamictal/Lamotrigine when I took it, then I would not be moving so quickly in my taper. But the fact that it seems to make me feel the opposite of stable or calm is a clear sign I'm having an adverse reaction.  

 

Thank you for following up. 

[Altostrata]

Hibari, it looks to me like the Lamictal reduction is taking effect. You've reduced over the last couple of weeks, it takes about 4 days for your system to register any one dosage change. The cumulative effect has finally emerged.

 

At this point, I would stop changing the Lamictal dosages, stay with your current 1.5mg, 1.5mg, 1.2mg, 1.2mg doses for now, tracking your symptom pattern. My guess is you'll probably be lowering the 1.5mg doses to 1.2mg soon, but we need to know your new baseline before more changes.

 

Please include your thyroid hormone in your daily notes. It could be your thyroid hormone dosage is still too high. One's need for thyroid supplementation can vary, necessitating occasional dosage adjustments. As thyroid hormone has a very long half-life, feeling a reduction in dosage takes weeks.

[Hibari]

48 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Hibari, it looks to me like the Lamictal reduction is taking effect. You've reduced over the last couple of weeks, it takes about 4 days for your system to register any one dosage change. The cumulative effect has finally emerged.

 

At this point, I would stop changing the Lamictal dosages, stay with your current 1.5mg, 1.5mg, 1.2mg, 1.2mg doses for now, tracking your symptom pattern. My guess is you'll probably be lowering the 1.5mg doses to 1.2mg soon, but we need to know your new baseline before more changes.

 

Please include your thyroid hormone in your daily notes. It could be your thyroid hormone dosage is still too high. One's need for thyroid supplementation can vary, necessitating occasional dosage adjustments. As thyroid hormone has a very long half-life, feeling a reduction in dosage takes weeks.

Hi Alto,

 

I'm feeling confused.  

 

The only reason I did the two 1.2 dosages was after I took your suggestion to come down to 5.6. 

 

I realized I made a mistake and I should have taken two 1.3 doses to make it 5.6 for the day.  Instead I ended up with a dose of 5.4.  

 

So today, I was aiming back for the 5.6mg, you suggested.  If you think I should stay at the 5.4 dose since I already made that change by mistake, I will. 

 

Friday, 11/2/18 

Broken sleep. Took my last dose of Lamictal too late.  Did take last quarter of the pharmagaba .25mg with 100mg of mag to sleep.  

Woke up very out of it, sweating, nausea, low grade headache, head pressure.  

8:30 75mgs Armor thyroid

9am 1.4 lamictal   1/2 later some speediness but less, feel weepy and depressed. 

Feel very underwater groggyish and yet a little hyper. 

1:PM 1.4 lamictal.   1/2 later some speediness bit less intense, still feel like crying my eyes out. 

Lunch. 

 

 

Alto, what about Sheps comments about taking GABA?  Except for the dose of Valium three days ago and two other separate occasions in the last year,  Xanax .25 and .50, I have not taken a benzo since September 2014.  

[Altostrata]

So you're sticking with 1.4mg Lamictal for each dose? Please stay there for a good while, be regular in your dosing, and capture your symptom pattern for baseline.

 

Your adverse reactions to Lamictal appear to be decreasing. Hopefully, this should continue to improve.

 

I don't worry about an occasional GABA supplement.

[Hibari]

Yes, that's what I plan to do.  1.4 mg, 4 times a day.  

 

I still will be be gauging towards the end of November, where I am in terms of the timing of stopping the med completely.  

 

Thank you in regard to the GABA.  I just needed clarity and had not planned on using it in a regular basis.  

 

Will keep tracking my symptoms, etc.  

 

Hibari 

 

 

[Shep]

23 hours ago, Hibari said:

GABA In terms of the GABA, I dont plan to use it in a daily or regular basis. I was in such a bad state on Wednesday and it did seem to help.  In the past 30 hours, I have only taken the one , 200mg pill.  

I do not want to create dependence on any other supplement, so plan to use very sparingly and only when my symptoms are overwhelming.  I got some MCT Hemp oil and will be trying a small dose of that if needed.  

 

Does the Benzo groups concern with GABA have to do with dependence? 

 

 

I think it's less about dependence (although it's likely possible), but some people reported upticks in symptoms very similar to problems with supplements like valerian, which also effects GABA. I would be careful with anything GABA related due to your prior use of benzos. 

 

As Alto wrote, occasional use is not a problem. Since this is something you posted you don't want to use daily or regularly, you'll be okay. 

 

[Hibari]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

I think it's less about dependence (although it's likely possible), but some people reported upticks in symptoms very similar to problems with supplements like valerian, which also effects GABA. I would be careful with anything GABA related due to your prior use of benzos. 

 

As Alto wrote, occasional use is not a problem. Since this is something you posted you don't want to use daily or regularly, you'll be okay. 

 

Thank you Shep.  To be honest, I did have a headache from it and felt it in my system for over 24 hours.  That could have been related to the amount.   I did not take anymore, even though I have continued wd symptoms and adverse reaction symptoms to my medication. 

 

My next choice is to try a drop of MCT Hemp Oil.  

 

 

[Rabe]

Hi Hibari...just wanted you to know that I am here cheering you on!  Also wanted you rot know that, for myself, things that I didnt even know affected GABA have made a difference for me....then I would do some research and find that out and stop.  It has been amazing to me how medications and even food can affect things.  I found that goats milk and tart cherry juice made a difference for me. 😳 So I stopped them and have been better.  

You are doing so well in both the tapering and self care!  Thinking about you!!💜

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

And hugs.  You're doing great with this.  Hibari, You are seeing improvement!  I saw it in your notes too.  So much patience involved.

21 hours ago, Hibari said:

Yes, that's what I plan to do.  1.4 mg, 4 times a day.  

 

I still will be be gauging towards the end of November, where I am in terms of the timing of stopping the med completely.  

 

Thank you in regard to the GABA.  I just needed clarity and had not planned on using it in a regular basis.  

 

Will keep tracking my symptoms, etc.  

 

Hibari 

 

Okay.....I'm seeing a plan here.  You are just getting going with the 1.4 mg dose of Lamictal, 4 times a day.  Try and stay with each day, as much as possible........I mean in your thoughts and mind.  And emphasize to yourself those days when you are doing some of the really normal stuff like laundry and groceries..........that can be so huge!  It's okay to note those as huge!  Especially when you have had recent periods of not being able to do that at all.

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

So you're sticking with 1.4mg Lamictal for each dose? Please stay there for a good while, be regular in your dosing, and capture your symptom pattern for baseline.

I just wonder how we/you will capture a baseline IF you add the MCT Hemp oil now.

2 hours ago, Hibari said:

As Alto wrote, occasional use is not a problem. Since this is something you posted you don't want to use daily or regularly, you'll be okay. 

This ^ is referring to the pharmaGABA.

 

On 11/1/2018 at 1:30 PM, Hibari said:

Yes, the Gaba did help.

This ^ was Thursday.

On 11/1/2018 at 8:57 AM, Hibari said:

I am preparing myself to step off Lamictal.  I know I will not be able to taper down to 0 on this medication.  It is having too adverse a reaction on me and these days of being incapacitated are taking their toll.   I have to see how low I can get but I will have to make a decision soon.

 

On 11/1/2018 at 1:12 PM, Altostrata said:

You may not need to get to zero Lamictal.

 

So again......I think my point is.........I think you'll get to a nice baseline pretty soon........reflected in your daily drug and symptom logs.  It does seem like you are having less of the adverse reaction as reflected in your logs.

Oh Hibari.......this is great!  I mean I know it's far from perfection and where you want to be.........but it's great progress!!!  Just reiterating.

 

I hope this wasn't just more confusion for you.  And Kudos.......on the drug and symptom logs........please continue.  Add on in the thyroid.  And good to know.......the effect of that may still be in the works.  You follow now though.......how each change(in Lamictal) doesn't immediately show up.  Do you?  Do you see in your logs? 

 

Oh Hibari......of good patience and endurance........all my best!!!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

[Hibari]

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

Hi Hibari...just wanted you to know that I am here cheering you on!  Also wanted you rot know that, for myself, things that I didnt even know affected GABA have made a difference for me....then I would do some research and find that out and stop.  It has been amazing to me how medications and even food can affect things.  I found that goats milk and tart cherry juice made a difference for me. 😳 So I stopped them and have been better.  

You are doing so well in both the tapering and self care!  Thinking about you!!💜

Thank you Rabe.  

 

I appreciate your support.  I dont feel I'm doing great in the tapering or self-care.  I  feel I'm in a great battle to keep sane. I am usually in tears off and on throughout the day.  Makes  me feel I something is very wrong with me.  I'm hoping it's just my brain going through adjustments.  

 

Thanks for the feedback on the Gaba.  I want my brain to heal on it's own but on the day I ended up taking it, I was very close to going to the ER.  I now understand its power and will keep back unless I have another day like that.  

 

I appreciate you stopping by.  

[Hibari]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Hibari,

And hugs.  You're doing great with this.  Hibari, You are seeing improvement!  I saw it in your notes too.  So much patience involved.

Okay.....I'm seeing a plan here.  You are just getting going with the 1.4 mg dose of Lamictal, 4 times a day.  Try and stay with each day, as much as possible........I mean in your thoughts and mind.  And emphasize to yourself those days when you are doing some of the really normal stuff like laundry and groceries..........that can be so huge!  It's okay to note those as huge!  Especially when you have had recent periods of not being able to do that at all.

I just wonder how we/you will capture a baseline IF you add the MCT Hemp oil now.

This ^ is referring to the pharmaGABA.

 

This ^ was Thursday.

 

 

So again......I think my point is.........I think you'll get to a nice baseline pretty soon........reflected in your daily drug and symptom logs.  It does seem like you are having less of the adverse reaction as reflected in your logs.

Oh Hibari.......this is great!  I mean I know it's far from perfection and where you want to be.........but it's great progress!!!  Just reiterating.

 

I hope this wasn't just more confusion for you.  And Kudos.......on the drug and symptom logs........please continue.  Add on in the thyroid.  And good to know.......the effect of that may still be in the works.  You follow now though.......how each change(in Lamictal) doesn't immediately show up.  Do you?  Do you see in your logs? 

 

Oh Hibari......of good patience and endurance........all my best!!!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Hi MMT

As you may have seen in my response to Rabe, I dont feel I'm doing great.  

 

I have clawed my way down to 5.6mgs due to the adverse reaction to my medication but I am counting the days till I can jump off, even if its slightly higher than most.  

 

I dont plan on using the hemp oil unless its absolutely necessary and can't handle another moment of Wd/adverse reaction.  

 

I don't know what a baseline will feel like at this time.   I think of how until this past August, I was as working and handling life even though I have been grief stricken about my dog and worried about my husbands health.  

 

Since September, things have been very hard. I'm glad Alto recognized the adverse reaction and confirmed that I was not losing my mind because I could just hold after certain drops.

 

As I said to Rabe, the crying concerns me but I am trying to let myself cry as much as I want, hoping that will help me heal.  

 

Thank you for your support.  I guess you are seeing things that I can't right now because I am in a medication haze and my brain isn't perceiving things correctly.  

[Hibari]

Log:

Friday, 11/2/18

Morning Cortisol spike: head pressure, nausuea, sweating, adrenaline spike

Very foggy, and feel underwater 

8:30 75 mg Thyroid med

9:00Am 1.4 Lamictal   1/2 later feel anxious,

10am hour later, get in car, doze for a half hour, feel irritable, sluggish, depressed, headache

12pm cry in the car 

1:30pm 1.4 Lamictal.  1/2 hour later Not as anxious after med, depressed, weepy 

4pm Cry wirh a friend. 

5pm 1.4 Lamictal

5-8 very panicky tearful, low grade headache, tired and wired. 

8:30pm 1.4 Lamictal  Dont feel  as hyper

9PM Cry again out of feeling trapped on this medication. 

10pm tired, headache, low grade depression 

10:30pm 200mg magnesium

Med total 5.6mg

 

Saturday. 11/3/18

Morning Cortisol Spike; head pressure, nausea, headache, sweating, depressed 

8:00am 75 mg Thyroid 

8:30 am 1.4 mg Lamictal. 20 mins -1/2 hour later some speediness but less, head pressure.  Tired from no sleep.

12:30 PM 1.4 Lamictal   Got tired and sleepy, cried with a friend about fear of never getting off this med. 

1:30pm. Took a nap? Felt inwas dozing with an undercurrent of low grade speediness. 

3-4:30pm very depressed for most of the afternoon, continued head pressure and underwater feeling. 

4:30 1.4 Lamictal  

5pm go for short walk with husband, feel depressed

5:30pm cry again about feeling trapped and sick

6:00pm Some anxiety, hot flashes, calmer, low grade depression, low grade headache. 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

Sleep.  What about sleep?

And okay.....I know, I know........"clawed your way down" and it HAS been a long stretch since August.

Yes, the brain adjusts in funny ways.......as far as I can tell.  Must have something to do with the crying.  Oh.....and the grief.  Life and loss.......loss and Life........  When did you last have a good laugh?  Or feel a bit of joy?

Wishing you a moment of each at least today.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Hibari]

9 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Hibari,

Sleep.  What about sleep?

And okay.....I know, I know........"clawed your way down" and it HAS been a long stretch since August.

Yes, the brain adjusts in funny ways.......as far as I can tell.  Must have something to do with the crying.  Oh.....and the grief.  Life and loss.......loss and Life........  When did you last have a good laugh?  Or feel a bit of joy?

Wishing you a moment of each at least today.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Sleep is not good.

Yesterday my panic continued to escalate and I did end up trying two drops of MCT hemp oil around bedtime. Initially I may have felt calmer but today I am sick again and did not sleep.  

 

I have rare moments of laughter with my husband but for the most part he is in the mode of consoling me and reassuring me that I will get through this.  I am very ill most days and it's pretty acute. 

 

I am waiting for him to have a stretch of time to be home so I can come off of the medication.  

 

As much as I would like to establish a base line, I will probably need to take a small piece of Gaba today. 

 

I dread taking my divided doses of Lamictal.  

 

I'm being as honest as I can here and I hope you know that I am not invested in feeling bad, I just do.  

 

[manymoretodays]

I know Hibari.  Of course you are not invested in feeling bad.  I am very appreciative of your honesty. 

Gentle hugs.  Such a nice husband it sounds like you have too!  Hoping his health is healing too!

.....and oh darn......I had thought the sleep was better.

Sunday best to you today........

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

[Hibari]

Continuing to plod along.    What has now emerged with these drops is depression.  Not that I haven't been depressed before but I again am hoping it's rebound depression from this quick drop in doses. 

Still lots of tears and a sense of deep loss. 

 

Below are my current logs:

Log:

 

Friday, 11/2/18
Some broken sleep?
5.6 mg
Morning Cortisol spike: head pressure, nausea, sweating, adrenaline spike, Very foggy, and feel underwater
8:30 75 mg Thyroid med
9:00AM 1.4 Lamictal                      1/2 later feel usual level of speediness
10:00AM                                            Hour later, get in car, doze for a half hour, feel irritable, sluggish, depressed, headache
12:00PM                                             Cry in the car
1:30pm   1.4 Lamictal.                   1/2 hour later not as anxious after med, but depressed, weepy
4:00pm                                               Cry with a friend.
5:00pm 1.4 Lamictal
5-8                                                       Very panicky tearful, low grade headache, tired and wired.
8:30pm 1.4 Lamictal                       Don’t feel as hyper but feel the med in my system
9:00PM                                              Cry again out of feeling trapped on this medication
10:00PM                                           Tired, headache, low grade depression
10:30pm 200mg magnesium
11PM Bed

 

Saturday, 11/3/18
5.6mg
No Sleep
Morning Cortisol Spike:                Head pressure, nausea, headache, sweating, depressed
8:00am 75 mg Thyroid
8:30 am 1.4 mg Lamictal               20 mins -1/2 hour later some speediness but less, head pressure. 
2:30PM 1.4 Lamictal                       Got tired and sleepy, cried with a friend about fear of never getting off  this med.
1:30pm. Took a nap?                     Felt I was dozing with an undercurrent of low grade speediness.
3-4:30pm                                          Very depressed for most of the afternoon, continued head pressure and underwater feeling-blurry eyes, foggy head
4:30PM  1.4 Lamictal 
5pm                                                    Go for short walk with husband, feel depressed
5:30pm                                              Cry again about feeling trapped and sick
6:00pm                                              Some anxiety, hot flashes, calmer, low grade depression, low grade headache.  Watch tv
7-8:00PM                                          Feel panic and tearful, angry and scared
8:30PM 1.4 Lamictal                       Cry with a friend, feel fear around taking any supplements or herbs
9PM                                                   Talk with another friend
9:30PM  1 drop hemp seed oil      Feel  a little calmer?
11PM 200mg Magnesium
12AM                                                 1 drop hemp seed oil

 

Sunday, 11/4/18
5.6 mgs
No sleep
Morning Cortisol Spike:                Have extreme panic and need to cry, headache, nausea, need to cry, fear, head pressure, feel trapped
6:30AM 75mgs Thyroid
(Time Change)
7:30AM 1.4 Lamictal                     
Really 8:30 due to time change
8:45AM                                        Sick and scared in the car, felt speedy from med, hour later cried in the car
11:30AM 1.4 Lamictal                    ½ hour later speediness, headache, nausea,
(12:30 with time change)
12PM                                                 Took 1 aspirin and 1 ginger pill, some anxiety, and fear, but feel a little  better, calmer and less nauseous about an hour later
2PM                                                   Cry and then take a ½ nap, wake with a jolt of adrenaline, headache and nausea
3PM 200mg mag                             1 more aspirin and 1 ginger pill. 
3:30PM  1.4 Lamictal                     Read success stories, ½ hour later hot flashes, increase in head pressure, some anxiety, low grade depression and sadness 
6PM                                                   Take short walk with my husband
6:30PM                                              Continued low grade depression, anxiety and fear
7:00PM Gaba 20-25mg?                Take tiny piece of Gaba, just bit off a piece of a 200mg tablet
7:30PM 1.4 Lamictal                       ½ later some anxiety but less, low grade headache
8:30PM                                             Feel very emotional
9PM                                                  Cry with a friend on the phone
10PM 200mg Mag
11PM Bed                                         Take 1 baby aspirin for headache

 

Monday, 11/5/18
5.6 mg
Slept due to Gaba I think
Morning Cortisol Spike:                Major head pressure, foggy, tired, sweating, nausea, calmer
8:30AM  1.4 Lamictal                     45 mins later start to feel anxious and speedy
10AM                                                 Feel like crying, start to drop in mood
10:15AM  75mg Thyroid                
11:00M                                              Cry, low grade headache and anxiety
12:30PM  1.4mg Lamictal             ½ later speedy feeling, continued head pressure
1PM                                                   Feel like crying
2:15                                                    Cry in therapy
4:00PM                                              Go to office, feel angry about this whole thing, headache, head pressure
6:00PM 1.4 Lamictal

 

[Altostrata]

How about taking 0.2mg off the first morning dose of Lamictal?

 

There's variation in your drug schedule from day to day. Can you keep to this schedule:

 

8:00am 75 mg Thyroid
8:30 am 1.2mg Lamictal            
12:30PM 1.4mg Lamictal                    
4:30PM  1.4mg Lamictal 
8:30PM 1.4mg Lamictal

 

That puts 4 hours between your Lamictal doses.

 

 

[Hibari]

Hi Alto,

 

I looked back at my notes, after your observation about consistency and realize that when I transcribed my written notes to a word document that I miswrote some things.  I've re-posted it below this response.  Saturday was also daylight savings times but I tried to take the meds at what would be the normal times before the change. 

 

But I have made some glitches as well thought tried to keep all doses 4 hours apart (except for today, darn it when I was out of the house longer than I expected).

 

I will be more mindful about the schedule and make the small adjustment in the morning.

 

Thank you Alto.  

 

Friday, 11/2/18
Some broken sleep?
5.6 mg
Morning Cortisol spike: head pressure, nausea, sweating, adrenaline spike, Very foggy, and feel underwater
8:30 75 mg Thyroid med
9:00AM 1.4 Lamictal                      1/2 later feel usual level of speediness
10:00AM                                            Hour later, get in car, doze for a half hour, feel irritable, sluggish, depressed, headache

11:00AM                                             Cry in the car        
1:00pm   1.4 Lamictal.                   1/2 hour later not as anxious after med, but depressed, weepy
4:00pm                                               Cry with a friend.
5:00pm 1.4 Lamictal
5-8                                                       Very panicky tearful, low grade headache, tired and wired.
8:30pm 1.4 Lamictal                       Don’t feel as hyper but feel the med in my system
9:00PM                                              Cry again out of feeling trapped on this medication
10:00PM                                           Tired, headache, low grade depression
10:30pm 200mg magnesium
11PM Bed

 

Saturday, 11/3/18
5.6mg
No Sleep
Morning Cortisol Spike:                Head pressure, nausea, headache, sweating, depressed
8:00am 75 mg Thyroid
8:30 am 1.4 mg Lamictal               20 mins -1/2 hour later some speediness but less, head pressure. 
12:30PM 1.4 Lamictal                       Got tired and sleepy, cried with a friend about fear of never getting off  this med.
1:30pm. Took a nap?                     Felt I was dozing with an undercurrent of low grade speediness.
3-4:30pm                                          Very depressed for most of the afternoon, continued head pressure and underwater feeling-blurry eyes, foggy head
4:30PM  1.4 Lamictal 
5pm                                                    Go for short walk with husband, feel depressed
5:30pm                                              Cry again about feeling trapped and sick
6:00pm                                              Some anxiety, hot flashes, calmer, low grade depression, low grade headache.  Watch tv
7-8:00PM                                          Feel panic and tearful, angry and scared
8:30PM 1.4 Lamictal                       Cry with a friend, feel fear around taking any supplements or herbs
9PM                                                   Talk with another friend
9:30PM  1 drop hemp seed oil      Feel  a little calmer?
11PM 200mg Magnesium
12AM                                                 1 drop hemp seed oil

 

Sunday, 11/4/18
5.6 mgs
No sleep
Morning Cortisol Spike:                Have extreme panic and need to cry, headache, nausea, need to cry, fear, head pressure, feel trapped
6:30AM 75mgs Thyroid
(Time Change)
7:30AM 1.4 Lamictal                     
(Really 8:30 due to Daylight Savings time)
8:45AM                                        Sick and scared in the car, felt speedy from med, hour later cried in the car
11:30AM 1.4 Lamictal                    ½ hour later speediness, headache, nausea,
(12:30 with time change)
12PM                                                 Took 1 aspirin and 1 ginger pill, some anxiety, and fear, but feel a little  better, calmer and less nauseous about an hour later
2PM                                                   Cry and then take a ½ nap, wake with a jolt of adrenaline, headache and nausea
3PM 200mg mag                             1 more aspirin and 1 ginger pill. 
3:30PM  1.4 Lamictal                     Read success stories, ½ hour later hot flashes, increase in head pressure, some anxiety, low grade depression and sadness 
6PM                                                   Take short walk with my husband
6:30PM                                              Continued low grade depression, anxiety and fear
7:00PM Gaba 20-25mg?                Take tiny piece of Gaba, just bit off a piece of a 200mg tablet
7:30PM 1.4 Lamictal                       ½ later some anxiety but less, low grade headache
(Really 8:30 with Daylight Savings Time).
8:30PM                                             Feel very emotional
9PM                                                  Cry with a friend on the phone
10PM 200mg Mag
11PM Bed                                         Take 1 baby aspirin for headache

 

Monday, 11/5/18
5.6 mg
Slept due to Gaba I think
Morning Cortisol Spike:                Major head pressure, foggy, tired, sweating, nausea, calmer
8:30AM  1.4 Lamictal                     45 mins later start to feel anxious and speedy
10AM                                                 Feel like crying, start to drop in mood
10:15AM  75mg Thyroid                
11:00M                                              Cry, low grade headache and anxiety
12:30PM  1.4mg Lamictal             ½ later speedy feeling, continued head pressure
1PM                                                   Feel like crying
2:15                                                    Cry in therapy
4:00PM                                              Go to office, feel angry about this whole thing, headache, head pressure, some low grade depression.
6:00PM 1.4 Lamictal                       Got stuck out the house longer than I expected.  

6:30PM                                               Little speedy but less, hot flashes and sadness, angry, low mood

7PM                                                     Take 1 baby aspirin

8:45PM                                              Low grade anxiety but okay 
 

 

[Hibari]

After a small window last night which I was grateful for I have had another hard day. 

 

I don't know if its another GABA hangover from Sunday (had a tiny piece), withdrawal or a continued adverse reaction to my medication.  Probably a combination of all 3.  

 

Very low mood today, headache, head pressure, anxiety, low grade panic and that tired wired feeling.  Lots of distraction from sinking into how bad I feel. And lots of crying from the symptoms.  

 

So I continue to hold in my mind that I will be stopping Lamictal towards the end of November.  I want to be up front about it because I will probably continue to need support from the site.  At this point, I have been tapering for a lttile over 3 years and 3 months. The last 2 months have been very hard and I have to trust that my body continues to tell me that it's time. 

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Ugha.  Shoot.  Hibari, can you begin to get your doses for each day set up at least the day before?

I'm not seeing yesterday or anything about your sleep pattern in your notes.

But I'm seeing some erratic dosing again.

 

On 11/6/2018 at 5:04 PM, Hibari said:

So I continue to hold in my mind that I will be stopping Lamictal towards the end of November.  I want to be up front about it because I will probably continue to need support from the site.  At this point, I have been tapering for a lttile over 3 years and 3 months. The last 2 months have been very hard and I have to trust that my body continues to tell me that it's time. 

 

I mean I'm not a therapist or even in your head......but why is it that you feel somehow that stopping abruptly soon is the answer to your W/D or other struggles?

I just don't follow.  I mean on one hand you may set yourself up for some 3, 6, 9 months or more of difficulties that way.  I mean that's my thinking......now, being on the other side of medications/drugs.

I'm all for intuition and trusting my body/mind/spirit as a whole.  Butta, whatta you up to, doing?

 

I just went back aways, in your thread.......and August was when you went against suggested input from here.  And then before that........stuff happened too.  I mean stuff is always going to be happening in life.  So anyway.  My thoughts are:  symptoms and drug logs.  Complete ones.  Try and quit experimenting on a day to day basis too.......with your dosing and intervals anyway.  Just that.  Go for 4 whole days with something. 

How long does it take for the "feel like I need to go to the ER" to pass?

It's good you are getting out.  Are you getting out for more than therapy and acupuncture and groceries and that stuff?  Are you having any folks in?  I mean visitors to just hang with and do stuff with.  Or out.  Are you using skills gained previously, as far as coping goes?

 

I hate sounding like such a meany bean.......but I don't get it.  What you are doing.

Can you do the 4 hour intervals for 4 days, with symptom and drug logs that are complete.  And even try that 1.2 mg dose of Lamictal at 8:30 am?

 

I hope today was better.  Yes, I'll support you.  I may not be able to check on in with you, and type much, when it is busy here.  But I'll pop on in.   Yes, of course I'll be rooting for you.

Oh my......I hope the purple font isn't getting to you.  Ahhh......depression.  Blame it on the time change.  I'm slowly adjusting.  Using my Happy lite a little, and of course Epsom salts baths, and my gosh it's tea time now!  I've got some great opportunities in front of me that I'm excited about.  Must donate the rest of my Halloween candy soon.......I swear......I will!!!  I keep trying new things too.  Or even old things in a new way.  Yikes......getting all dresssed up for an event this weekend.  I hope it's fun.

You will be so very thankful for the all the roses, rainbows, and puppies soon........even more so, is what I have found.  Not a day goes by that I don't give thanks for something or many somethings.  I cry with gratitude now.  Tears.  Just tears.  I want to cry with gratitude when you turn the corner here. 

 

Tea time.  Okay......pouring now......it's all steeped and ready to go.  Todays blend includes a bit of Bear Root.  Knock on wood.......it's going to keep me really healthy, through these more indoor months of late fall and winter.    I hope.  The other ingredients are top secret.......not really, but I have to run off site now too......so I won't go into my tea talk.  You get the best cup!!!

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited November 8, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Altostrata]

On 11/5/2018 at 4:54 PM, Altostrata said:

How about taking 0.2mg off the first morning dose of Lamictal?

 

There's variation in your drug schedule from day to day. Can you keep to this schedule:

 

8:00am 75 mg Thyroid
8:30 am 1.2mg Lamictal            
12:30PM 1.4mg Lamictal                    
4:30PM  1.4mg Lamictal 
8:30PM 1.4mg Lamictal

 

That puts 4 hours between your Lamictal doses.

 

 

 

How has the above schedule worked out?

 

Depression can be a side effect of Lamictal. You are still probably taking too much for the current state of your nervous system. My guess is we need to gradually lower it, no faster than every week to track any change in symptoms.

[Hibari]

On 11/9/2018 at 3:57 PM, Altostrata said:

 

How has the above schedule worked out?

 

Depression can be a side effect of Lamictal. You are still probably taking too much for the current state of your nervous system. My guess is we need to gradually lower it, no faster than every week to track any change in symptoms.

Hi Alto,

 

So, I was trying to follow the above schedule and got to 5.4 mgs.  But I was still having spikes after taking the medication, even at night.  My pattern continued to be take the med, 20-30 mins later feel hyper and then an hour after that feel emotional and cry. 

 

I found myself hysterical last Tuesday night and unable to sleep again. 

 

I made the painful decision to stop my medication and this morning will be starting my 6th day without it.  It has been very rough.  I alternated bad days and good days until yesterday when I felt the full force of my choice.  I am in extreme withdrawal and of course a lot of fear.

 

I know I probably have upset you with my choice but until yesterday I thought it was the right one. 

 

I think now I am in the position where I have to reinstate and have no idea how much to take.

 

Please know that you getting me down to 5.4 mgs was crucial for me and you really understood how adversely the medication was affecting me.  

 

Would you please consider guiding me again?   I am very ill on top of all ready being very ill from the adverse reaction.   I tried some more GABA but it has not helped.

 

Main symptoms:  Trebling, anxiety, insomina, hot flashes, panic, racing thoughts, fear, blurry eyes, etc. 

 

Thank you Alto.  

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

3 hours ago, Hibari said:

I made the painful decision to stop my medication and this morning will be starting my 6th day without it.  It has been very rough.  I alternated bad days and good days until yesterday when I felt the full force of my choice.  I am in extreme withdrawal and of course a lot of fear.

 

3 hours ago, Hibari said:

I think now I am in the position where I have to reinstate and have no idea how much to take.

 

And hugs.  Do you have any more drug/symptom logs to post Hibari?  That might help when Alto makes her rounds.  The last one posted was on the 5th of November.

Hibari's drug logs, up to November 5th. 

It's just that they give such nice objective information.

Have you been getting out and about? 

I wondered where you went.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt