success Hibari: tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamictal

[Hibari]

On 9/14/2018 at 7:56 PM, ChessieCat said:

You're welcome.  I hope things settle down quickly.

 

I suggest you keeps daily notes on paper.  This way you will be able to check back and be more objective.

 

Hi Chessie,

 

I have been tracking my symptoms for the past four days and while I have had a day of feeling so awful, that constant self-talk and distraction were the only way through, I would say that things are settling down but there is an issue.

 

i haven't slept in 4 days and before that there was a string of 5 days without sleep before that.  1 day of broken sleep in between. 

 

The reason I'm not sleeping is medication related.  I believe I still am on too high of an updose.  About 2-3 hours after I take my medication around 11PM, I am hit with a surge of medication effect-a revved up feeling that does not let me sleep all night.   Sometimes I wake up with a headache and nausea, and sometimes not.  I am not functioning well in terms of sleep.  

 

My questions are:

1. Is another small reduction appropriate?  I'm at 9.4 and thought maybe dropping to 9.2.

2. Or should I move my medication to an earlier time?  I think I will still be hit with the revved up feeling, but it's a matter of when. 

 

Thank you.

 

Hibari

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

Did you get away for a bit then?

I don't know how it is for you but sometimes for me........even still, I'll do the things that help and then find myself feeling a bit overwhelmed again once they are over.

So......maybe, it's something like that for you now?

 

3 hours ago, Hibari said:

I have been tracking my symptoms for the past four days and while I have had a day of feeling so awful, that constant self-talk and distraction were the only way through, I would say that things are settling down but there is an issue.

 

i haven't slept in 4 days and before that there was a string of 5 days without sleep before that.  1 day of broken sleep in between. 

 

The reason I'm not sleeping is medication related.  I believe I still am on too high of an updose.  About 2-3 hours after I take my medication around 11PM, I am hit with a surge of medication effect-a revved up feeling that does not let me sleep all night.   Sometimes I wake up with a headache and nausea, and sometimes not.  I am not functioning well in terms of sleep.  

 

My questions are:

1. Is another small reduction appropriate?  I'm at 9.4 and thought maybe dropping to 9.2.

2. Or should I move my medication to an earlier time?  I think I will still be hit with the revved up feeling, but it's a matter of when. 

 

I'm wondering......when you say revved up feeling..........if it is the darn cortisol awakenings going on.

So.......I think I would vote no, as far as doing yet another change in your dose too so soon, again.  Give your CNS/ANS a chance to adjust for a longer period.

 

Best links for sleep related stuff, IMHO:

Tips to help sleep

Waking with panic or anxiety-managing cortisol spikes

 

And then another thought occurred to me........I know you are doing some therapy and acupuncture.  When you can..........try and add some meditation type stuff to your present coping toolbox.  I mean stuff that has no content to it at all sometimes helps me.  That just being with it all, observing without judgement, etc.

 

Lamictal sounds like a pretty decent medication/drug, to be the last one you are tapering now.  So I'm all for having you just try and wait a bit longer with your present dose.  What kind of tapering schedule have you been using up to now?  I mean are you microtapering, or 10% every month from the previous dose, or some variance of that?  And then I saw you had to change to powder from liquid mid August too......or back to just liquid?

 

Do give a good try at the notes as ChessieCat  suggested too.  Keep it simple.  Time on the left.  drug, dose, symptoms on the right.  Include your supplements, as well as sleep difficulties there as well.  It'll help you and us to be objective.

 

All for now,

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by manymoretodays
elaboration, additional thoughts

[Hibari]

50 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Hibari,

Did you get away for a bit then?

I don't know how it is for you but sometimes for me........even still, I'll do the things that help and then find myself feeling a bit overwhelmed again once they are over.

So......maybe, it's something like that for you now?

 

 

I'm wondering......when you say revved up feeling..........if it is the darn cortisol awakenings going on.

So.......I think I would vote no, as far as doing yet another change in your dose too so soon, again.  Give your CNS/ANS a chance to adjust for a longer period.

 

Best links for sleep related stuff, IMHO:

Tips to help sleep

Waking with panic or anxiety-managing cortisol spikes

 

And then another thought occurred to me........I know you are doing some therapy and acupuncture.  When you can..........try and add some meditation type stuff to your present coping toolbox.  I mean stuff that has no content to it at all sometimes helps me.  That just being with it all, observing without judgement, etc.

 

Lamictal sounds like a pretty decent medication/drug, to be the last one you are tapering now.  So I'm all for having you just try and wait a bit longer with your present dose.  What kind of tapering schedule have you been using up to now?  I mean are you microtapering, or 10% every month from the previous dose, or some variance of that?  And then I saw you had to change to powder from liquid mid August too......or back to just liquid?

 

Do give a good try at the notes as ChessieCat  suggested too.  Keep it simple.  Time on the left.  drug, dose, symptoms on the right.  Include your supplements, as well as sleep difficulties there as well.  It'll help you and us to be objective.

 

All for now,

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Thanks MMD.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.  I am answering as honestly as possible at this time and I apologize if my answers seem a little bleak.

 

I did get away for the weekend but to be honest it was a tough weekend.  Though quiet, my CNS is very off balance right now and of course, I miss my dog terribly. 

 

In terms of sleep:  I have tried magnesuim, Calms Forte, Oatstraw Tea , Camomile/Sleepytime Tea. I have worn an eye mask and had dark curtains for over a year.   I have had cortisol spikes and that hung over feeling in the morning but those occur at 7AM and not at 1AM or 2AM, which is what I am experiencing now.   I have not tried Melatonin yet which may be my next choice. 

 

This revved up feeling feels like the medication entering my system and keeping me awake from there.   Maybe Lamictal is more activating than I thought and it was covered over when I was on Remeron.

 

I can sometimes meditate and dip into it when I am not so mentally overwhelmed.  I know that sounds paradoxical but meditation has made me feel worse in the past depending on how much emotionally and physical pain I am in. 

 

Is Lamictal a decent medication?  Hard to say at this point.  It did help me way at the middle of my depressive episode to calm down what I now realize was acute benzo wd.   If I had stayed at 25mgs, which is where I felt relief, it might have been a different story. 

 

My tapering schedule up till June was 10% per drop and I pushed that at times.  I decided to slow down and tried to do a 2.5% drop.  I hit a wall and per Brass Monkeys advice decided to hold for some months.   The subsequent stress of my dog, my husband's surgery and then changing to crushing my pills into powder all affected that hold. 

 

My method of tapering has been dry cutting pills and weighing them, I then switched to dissolving them in water,  back to dry cutting  and then crushing the pills into powder and weighing them.   I have always overthought whatever method I was using. 

 

Right now I am dry cutting individual pills and weighing them.  I take one whole 5mg pill and then pieces of a weighed pill that equal 4.4.   Totaling 9.4

 

Thank you again for reading. 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

 

Regarding Acupuncture - Posts #6 & #8 (not detox or stimulation)

 

 

8 hours ago, Hibari said:

Or should I move my medication to an earlier time?  I think I will still be hit with the revved up feeling, but it's a matter of when. 

 

I think this might be worth trying.  Only move earlier by 1 hour at a time.  I would be trying this out before trying Melatonin.

 

Make one change at a time.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

[Hibari]

Thanks Chessie.  The lack of sleep has made me weepy and depressed.  

 

My accuputurist is very kind and gentle.  I've been working with her for about two years or so.  

 

Its turned into another tough day.  

[Hibari]

Though I am having a very tough day filled with sadness and depression,  I want to remember that yesterday I had a window of feeling all right. 

 

My husband is away so I went to stay with a friend about 1/2 hour away.  Had to take a bus there and was able to handle it.    We spent time together, I tried to nap, couldn't but at least rested. 

By the time I got up I was better and as the evening wore on I felt normal.  Took my meds, and then couldn't sleep but felt okay.

 

Woke at 8AM with the usual nausea and headache but not horrible.  But then about 11AM my mood just plunged, bad headache, dizzy, nauseous, fear and deep sorrow.  Ended up having to take an UBER back to the city because the thought of getting on a crowed bus just panicked me.

 

I didn't eat well last night, had a bowl of my friends' chili and I'm sure that affected my system.   She also has a sweet dog and that probably made me miss mine.  

 

All this to say, I'm clinging to the fact that I had a window of time where I felt better and I'm hoping that after acupuncture today, I will have another one.  

[Hibari]

On 9/17/2018 at 5:58 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Regarding Acupuncture - Posts #6 & #8 (not detox or stimulation)

 

 

 

I think this might be worth trying.  Only move earlier by 1 hour at a time.  I would be trying this out before trying Melatonin.

 

Make one change at a time.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Chessie, should I roll back the time I take my med on a weekly basis or every couple of days? I've taken it an hour earlier for the past 3 nights.  

[ChessieCat]

1 hour earlier each day.  Sorry if I omitted that bit of info.

[Hibari]

Thank you.  

[Hibari]

After experiencing some windows, intermingled with some despair and depression, I thought I was headed towards stability.  Had an okay day yesterday with only one episode of deep sadness (mainly around my dog's passing) and even though I had a headache, I was okay.

 

Today, I feel after a night of no sleep, like I am on speed and I am so despairing of this process.  Physically sick, headache, sedated feeling and of course wanting to cry.   

 

I feel discouraged today and though I'm going to take actions to get out, etc, I feel so sad about this process. 

 

I have rolled back when I take my meds so now instead of at 11PM, I took them at 8:30-been rolling back on a nightly basis-did not just jump to that.    I want to be able to sleep and Lamictal is too activating for me at this time to take at night.

 

Anyway, just another horrible day that makes me feel so far from the finish line.

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

When did the accelerated feeling that you mention start exactly?  Date?  Dosage?

29 minutes ago, Hibari said:

After experiencing some windows, intermingled with some despair and depression, I thought I was headed towards stability.  Had an okay day yesterday with only one episode of deep sadness (mainly around my dog's passing) and even though I had a headache, I was okay.

 

Today, I feel after a night of no sleep, like I am on speed and I am so despairing of this process.  Physically sick, headache, sedated feeling and of course wanting to cry.   

 

I feel discouraged today and though I'm going to take actions to get out, etc, I feel so sad about this process. 

 

I have rolled back when I take my meds so now instead of at 11PM, I took them at 8:30-been rolling back on a nightly basis-did not just jump to that.    I want to be able to sleep and Lamictal is too activating for me at this time to take at night.

 

Anyway, just another horrible day that makes me feel so far from the finish line.

 

 

 

And then this:

Like all psychoactive drugs, lamotrigine can have withdrawal difficulties. Even doctors who are aware of withdrawal problems with other drugs can be surprised at how hard it is to go off lamotrigine. As with other drugs, we recommend very gradual tapering at 10% per month, based on the current dosage (the amount of the decrease keeps getting smaller). Read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Lamotrigine makes the nervous system less reactive. This allows regulatory systems, such as the GABA system, to work better. Much is unknown about how it works.
 
Removal of lamotrigine can cause a nasty rebound of "alerting," i.e. anxiety, restlessness, and sleeplessness.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Taken from the first post in Tips for tapering off Lamictal(I put that one sentence in orange).

 

And then you have the lack of sleep to boot too!!!  I think you may be on the right track with moving your dose earlier by an hour a day.  Have you always taken it at night?

Ah........I spy a window last Wednesday!!!!  Yay for that day.  And yesterday okay.

 

Do some drug and symptom logs on paper first, and then share here.  Keep it simple, with the time on the left, drug, dosage and symptoms on the right.  Include any supplements and your sleep.  Maybe something will stand out when we see it in that form.

 

9.4 mg Lamictal now since 13 September?

 

Oh and hugs too.  My friend got a yellow lab not too long ago.  I'm gonna meet the little girl on Tuesday next week, the dog.  I'm looking forward to that.  Grieve as you need.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by manymoretodays

[wantrelief]

3 hours ago, Hibari said:

Anyway, just another horrible day that makes me feel so far from the finish line.

Oh Hibari, I am really sorry you are having a horrible day.  It sounds like you have had some windows so that is definitely something positive to hold onto.  I am thinking about you - WR.

[Hibari]

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Hibari,

When did the accelerated feeling that you mention start exactly?  Date?  Dosage?

 

And then this:

Like all psychoactive drugs, lamotrigine can have withdrawal difficulties. Even doctors who are aware of withdrawal problems with other drugs can be surprised at how hard it is to go off lamotrigine. As with other drugs, we recommend very gradual tapering at 10% per month, based on the current dosage (the amount of the decrease keeps getting smaller). Read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Lamotrigine makes the nervous system less reactive. This allows regulatory systems, such as the GABA system, to work better. Much is unknown about how it works.
 
Removal of lamotrigine can cause a nasty rebound of "alerting," i.e. anxiety, restlessness, and sleeplessness.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Taken from the first post in Tips for tapering off Lamictal(I put that one sentence in orange).

 

And then you have the lack of sleep to boot too!!!  I think you may be on the right track with moving your dose earlier by an hour a day.  Have you always taken it at night?

Ah........I spy a window last Wednesday!!!!  Yay for that day.  And yesterday okay.

 

Do some drug and symptom logs on paper first, and then share here.  Keep it simple, with the time on the left, drug, dosage and symptoms on the right.  Include any supplements and your sleep.  Maybe something will stand out when we see it in that form.

 

9.4 mg Lamictal now since 13 September?

 

Oh and hugs too.  My friend got a yellow lab not too long ago.  I'm gonna meet the little girl on Tuesday next week, the dog.  I'm looking forward to that.  Grieve as you need.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

HI MMD,

 

Here's the answer to your first question. 

 

Mid August: 8.8mgs I started to experience the accelerated feeling when I switched from cutting my pills to crushing my pills into powder.  The dose I was told this would register as a dose change and it did.   Prior to that not so much but was starting to experience insomnia.

Switch back to dry cutting pills and weighing them. 

9/4/18  10mgs. Up-dose 1.2 mgs after not being able to stabilize.  Go through 4 days of intense agitation, no sleep, depression, SI and panic.   Decided to drop to 9.5mgs.

9/8/18  9.5 mgs  drop my dose and feel some relief from the depression,  Stay here till 9/13 still feeling dose is to high.

9/13/18 9.4mgs.  Feel hungover but again less depression.  Waiting to stabilize. 

 

I have always taken all my medication at night.  But after stopping Remeron last April,  my sleep has become less easy and then over the summer moving into insomnia most of the time.   On two occasions I have taken a Xanax, spread 3 weeks apart one .50 dose and one .25 dose.  I did get some sleep but have no real desire to use it any more. 

 

9/17/18 10PM After getting guidance on this site, decide to roll back my medication and take it earlier with the goal of taking it in the daytime.  Stay at 10PM for 3 days till I get information that I can drop back an hour each day. 

9/22/18  8:30PM  Take medication.   May hold here for a few days.

 

I have been tracking my days.   I mainly have the day, the dose and a description of the day.  I have about 5 days worth.  Should I post that In my thread? 

 

Yes, I was happy to get some windows, punctuated by two deep mini waves of deep depression.    Felt I was stabilizing and then got hit with symptoms today that through me so much.

 

Let me know if you need anything else.

 

Hibari

 

 

 

[Hibari]

38 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

Oh Hibari, I am really sorry you are having a horrible day.  It sounds like you have had some windows so that is definitely something positive to hold onto.  I am thinking about you - WR.

Thank you WR.   The disappointment of not having stability really upset me. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

On 9/23/2018 at 3:40 PM, Hibari said:

 

 

9/17/18 10PM After getting guidance on this site, decide to roll back my medication and take it earlier with the goal of taking it in the daytime.  Stay at 10PM for 3 days till I get information that I can drop back an hour each day. 

9/22/18  8:30PM  Take medication.   May hold here for a few days. 

 

I have been tracking my days.   I mainly have the day, the dose and a description of the day.  I have about 5 days worth.  Should I post that In my thread?

 

 

 

 

Hi Hibari,

Interesting that the accelerated feeling came with the crushed powder versus weighing. 

 

Stick with the cutting and weighing, and moving the dose back(by an hour), not more than an hour a day.  If you want to hold on the time of dose, like you've done for more than a day now, that's okay too.  Keep going with the goal of getting the Lamictal to a daytime or morning time of dosing.

 

Keep up with the notes on paper.  If you do hit a trend where things seem worse consistently..........yes, do post them here. 

 

You're doing good. 

I think you may be stabilizing too!

Best to keep it simple and consistent right now........other than moving the dose.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hibari]

I could use some perspective and support.  

While I have had some windows and some very bad waves over the past 7 days, I just feel so emotional and at times depressed.   I cry all the time; over my dog, over this process, over my fear of not getting better.  The tears feel endless and I feel out of control.  I'm wondering if this is due to the up-dose and if there is anything I should do?  
 

Here some tracking I have done.  I just put down the past week but have previous days as well.  

9/4 updose to 10mgs, it was too much.
9/8 Dropped to 9.5 mgs still too much
9/13/18 Dropped to 9.4 mgs, some relief from feeling hyper.

 

9/21/18 9.4 mgs
No sleep.  Headache and nausea in the morning-2 on a scale of 10.   Cried over my dog.
Worked a few hours.  Very depressed, came home, cried.
Took 200mgs of Magnesium in the early evening, felt better.  Some anxiety and fear.
Took meds at 9PM

 

 9/22/18 9.4 mgs
A few hours of sleep.  Bad headache-8 on scale of 10
Out of it but fairly stable mood.  Drop in mood in afternoon, sad about my dog, went to Alanon meeting and felt better.
Continue to take 100mgs of magnesium throughout the day reaching about 800mgs.  Feel calm and relaxed. 
Took meds at 8:30PM

9/23/18 9.4mgs
No sleep.  Bad headache, nausea, dizzy 8 on a scale of 10
Sad, depressed, cried deeply in the afternoon, cried again in the evening, hot flashes, very discouraged. 
Took meds at 8:30PM

 

9/24/18   9.4mgs
Mood okay but exhausted and weak.  Physically sick with nausea, headache and weak. 
Feel like I want to go to the hospital for ???  Took magnesium
Stayed in bed, went to therapy, home and very tired.
Took meds at 8:30PM

 

9/25/18 9.4mgs
Slept some, mood okay but sweaty and and anxious.  Slight headache. 
Mood drops in the afternoon, feel sad and scared about getting better.
Terrible day the rest of the day, crying, depression very despondent.
Take meds at 8:30.  Feel better when during the night.

 

9/26/18
Slept some hours, big cortisol jump in morning, anxiety. 
Take 2 L-Theanine at 9AM.
12PM take 100mgs magnesium.
Work a few hours, come home, cry about a dog incident on the street.
Take magnesium, feel calmer.
Take meds at 8:30PM

 

9/27/18
No sleep.  Eat nuts at night, get headache and stomach ache from that out fish dinner.
Anxiety,  no appetite,
10AM Take 100mgs Magnesium
Do some housecleaning. cry on the phone with a friend about fearing I won't get better, cry in acupuncture and feel sad on the way home.
Eat dinner, feeling slightly better but low grade depression. 

Any perspective from moderators would be helpful. 

 

 

[SkyBlue]

Hi Hibari,

 

Good notes. How did you know the 10mg was too much? It seems to be a question of how tolerable symptoms are at each dose. Going to 9/4 seems to have helped with the feeling hyper?

Crying and emotionality are definite withdrawal symptoms. It's a matter of having a level of symptoms that's tolerable, but they can also be uncomfortable at times.

[Hibari]

Hi SkyBlue,

 

Thanks for respondong.  

I knew it was too much because I was shaking, had deep depression and SI, which I had not experienced before.  I felt like I was way too hyper.

 

So after 4 days I dropped to 9.5 mgs, which helped with the SI.  I still felt lousy and hyper so dropped one more milligram.  I could tolerate that.

 

But it's been a rocky road.  First lots of sleepless nights, insomnia, down mood, despair about feeling so physically nauseated and headaches.

 

I also, with moderator support, started to roll back my medication time so it wouldn't keep me up.

 

Lately, the last 5 days lots of crying, depression alternating with anxiety. Some of the crying is grief over my dog, my loss of health and identity.  I have had, as someone here said, dirty windows and deep waves.  That's what I'm questioning.  This crying feels excessive. I've cried before in wd but this feels like way more.  

 

The crying and depression was what made me reach out for perspective. I also question my tampering method, cutting pills and weighting them. I would like to switch to liquid later on after I'm very stable.  

 

So nothing jumps out from what I've written and the crying and mood swings are wd?

 

Thanks.  

 

[Hibari]

Just checking on my last question in the post above? 

 

After a 1 day window, I'm having a very bad day of physical symptoms, no sleep, headach and nausea and the despair that follows.  

[Hibari]

I guess the other question is,  Am I in tolerance? And if so what are the steps to take going forward?  

[SkyBlue]

2 hours ago, Hibari said:

I guess the other question is,  Am I in tolerance? And if so what are the steps to take going forward?  

If you are tapering, tolerance doesn't seem very important, as you've already decided to come off the drug.

 

"Cause for concern" is relatively... relative. Like I said, it's about finding a dosage and taper schedule that while perhaps not comfortable, is tolerable to you. Does that make sense? For example, for me, depersonalization is uncomfortable, not desirable, and disruptive, but it's not cause for concern, because I know what it is. 

 

Are the crying and emotionality because of withdrawal? I would definitely think so. It's hard to experience. Have you found things that are helpful in dealing with those symptoms?  I'm glad that you worked out what dosage was too high, and maybe your system is now settling onto the current dose. 

 

Is Lamictal the only psych drug you're on right now?

[Hibari]

Yes, Lamictal is the only psych drug I am on.  I was on a dose of 200mgs and now down to 9.4mgs.  I got myself off of Xanax/Clonazapam in 2014.  And then Remeron/Mirtazapine in 2017.

 

You can see from my history that after 6 months of tapering Remeron, I started tapering both medications at the same time till the lower doses of Remeron.  

 

I did not hold long enough after I got off Remeron before I started the Lamictal taper again. I know have pushed my taper too fast but was planning to hold for 6 months starting in June.  Then events in my life caused  my nervous system to take a hit, plus I changed my method of taking my meds.  

 

I now am back to cutting and weighing pills, and trying to stabilize since 9/13. 

 

I guess the cause for concern piece is because besides the crying, I have periods, like today,  of deep depression.  That seems to have started once I updosed.  Though I definitely have been despairing and anxious throughout my taper, this kind of depression feels different.   

 

I let myself cry deeply with a few friends who arent scared of the depth of my sobbing.  I'll feel relief and then the next day, the same sobbing.  

[wantrelief]

I am so sorry you are still feeling unwell, Hibari.  I am hopeful it you stay at your current dose your nervous system will calm down and you will start to feel better.  I am so glad you have friends with whom you can talk about what is going on and even cry with.....those sound like wonderful friends to have.  I am thinking about you, Hibari.

[Altostrata]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:05 PM, Hibari said:

I could use some perspective and support.  

While I have had some windows and some very bad waves over the past 7 days, I just feel so emotional and at times depressed.   I cry all the time; over my dog, over this process, over my fear of not getting better.  The tears feel endless and I feel out of control.  I'm wondering if this is due to the up-dose and if there is anything I should do?  
 

Here some tracking I have done.  I just put down the past week but have previous days as well.  

9/4 updose to 10mgs, it was too much.
9/8 Dropped to 9.5 mgs still too much
9/13/18 Dropped to 9.4 mgs, some relief from feeling hyper.

 

9/21/18 9.4 mgs
No sleep.  Headache and nausea in the morning-2 on a scale of 10.   Cried over my dog.
Worked a few hours.  Very depressed, came home, cried.
Took 200mgs of Magnesium in the early evening, felt better.  Some anxiety and fear.
Took meds at 9PM

 

 9/22/18 9.4 mgs
A few hours of sleep.  Bad headache-8 on scale of 10
Out of it but fairly stable mood.  Drop in mood in afternoon, sad about my dog, went to Alanon meeting and felt better.
Continue to take 100mgs of magnesium throughout the day reaching about 800mgs.  Feel calm and relaxed. 
Took meds at 8:30PM

9/23/18 9.4mgs
No sleep.  Bad headache, nausea, dizzy 8 on a scale of 10
Sad, depressed, cried deeply in the afternoon, cried again in the evening, hot flashes, very discouraged. 
Took meds at 8:30PM

 

9/24/18   9.4mgs
Mood okay but exhausted and weak.  Physically sick with nausea, headache and weak. 
Feel like I want to go to the hospital for ???  Took magnesium
Stayed in bed, went to therapy, home and very tired.
Took meds at 8:30PM

 

9/25/18 9.4mgs
Slept some, mood okay but sweaty and and anxious.  Slight headache. 
Mood drops in the afternoon, feel sad and scared about getting better.
Terrible day the rest of the day, crying, depression very despondent.
Take meds at 8:30.  Feel better when during the night.

 

9/26/18
Slept some hours, big cortisol jump in morning, anxiety. 
Take 2 L-Theanine at 9AM.
12PM take 100mgs magnesium.
Work a few hours, come home, cry about a dog incident on the street.
Take magnesium, feel calmer.
Take meds at 8:30PM

 

9/27/18
No sleep.  Eat nuts at night, get headache and stomach ache from that out fish dinner.
Anxiety,  no appetite,
10AM Take 100mgs Magnesium
Do some housecleaning. cry on the phone with a friend about fearing I won't get better, cry in acupuncture and feel sad on the way home.
Eat dinner, feeling slightly better but low grade depression. 

Any perspective from moderators would be helpful. 

 

 

 

Good notes, thanks. 

 

Quote

Take meds at 8:30PM

 

Please specify the meds and their dosages. We're talking about Lamictal, correct?

 

Quote

 

9/13/18 Dropped to 9.4 mgs, some relief from feeling hyper.

 

 

It seems to me that since you felt 9.5mg was too much, you got relief from decreasing to 9.4mg, but you haven't been able to sleep, 9.4mg might still be a bit high.

 

Headache or nausea after taking lamotrigine is a sign of too high a dose all at once.

 

If you're wary of reducing lamotrigine, splitting the dose might be helpful. You could move 4.4mg an hour or so earlier each day until you are taking it in the morning. This may be calming in the morning and evening, instead of triggering symptoms when you take it all in the evening.

[Hibari]

44 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Good notes, thanks. 

 

 

Please specify the meds and their dosages. We're talking about Lamictal, correct?

 

 

It seems to me that since you felt 9.5mg was too much, you got relief from decreasing to 9.4mg, but you haven't been able to sleep, 9.4mg might still be a bit high.

 

Headache or nausea after taking lamotrigine is a sign of too high a dose all at once.

 

If you're wary of reducing lamotrigine, splitting the dose might be helpful. You could move 4.4mg an hour or so earlier each day until you are taking it in the morning. This may be calming in the morning and evening, instead of triggering symptoms when you take it all in the evening.

Thank you Alto for your response, I am very grateful. 

 

Please specify the meds and their dosages. We're talking about Lamictal, correct? 

Yes, I am only taking 9.4 of Lamictal at this point.

Right now I take one 5 mg pill and one pill that I measure and cut to weigh 4.4

 

It seems to me that since you felt 9.5mg was too much, you got relief from decreasing to 9.4mg, but you haven't been able to sleep, 9.4mg might still be a bit high.

I think so too.  I was so speedy last night trying to sleep after taking the med at 8PM.   

Do you think it's okay to drop again after 19 days of trying to hold the up-dose of 9.4? 

What amount would you recommend I drop to or reduce by?  The amount I was at before up-dosing was 8.8mgs. 

 

If you're wary of reducing lamotrigine, splitting the dose might be helpful. You could move 4.4mg an hour or so earlier each day until you are taking it in the morning. This may be calming in the morning and evening, instead of triggering symptoms when you take it all in the evening.

I was actually thinking this when I woke up this morning. 

When would I take the other pill? 

If I do decide to split, would I still drop the dosage? 

 

Also, my scale is jumping around too much for my liking.  Right now I am weighing each pill individually.  I tried cutting up a bunch of pills into powder but whether it was the back to back life stressors or the or the method, I had huge anxiety.  

 

I think I would like to go back to liquid tapering, my pills are soluble and dissolve easily.  I would not to all of the above at the same time but would like your guidance. 

 

Thank you again. 

[Hibari]

On 10/1/2018 at 12:13 AM, wantrelief said:

I am so sorry you are still feeling unwell, Hibari.  I am hopeful it you stay at your current dose your nervous system will calm down and you will start to feel better.  I am so glad you have friends with whom you can talk about what is going on and even cry with.....those sound like wonderful friends to have.  I am thinking about you, Hibari.

Thank you for your support.  I am tying to make the best choices I can in this very hard period.  

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

On 10/1/2018 at 10:00 AM, Hibari said:

If you're wary of reducing lamotrigine, splitting the dose might be helpful. You could move 4.4mg an hour or so earlier each day until you are taking it in the morning. This may be calming in the morning and evening, instead of triggering symptoms when you take it all in the evening.

I was actually thinking this when I woke up this morning. 

When would I take the other pill? 

If I do decide to split, would I still drop the dosage? 

 

Yay......I'm rooting for you to try the dose split option.  Just that. 

 

If I were you......I'd keep your 5 mg dose where it's at now.  Isn't it at 8 or 8:30 pm?

And then just move the 4.4 mg dose an hour or so earlier until you are taking it at 8am or 9 am.

And then, stay put with that........... until you see if sleep and activation symptoms are better. 

Oh, and I really hope some of the horrid depressive stuff, you are feeling improves as well......once your sleep improves.

 

Can you go with that?  One change at a time. 

The Rule of 3KIS

Oh.....I'd say if you go to liquid tapering, to not make any other changes at the same time.  That's just going to cause further nervous system confusion now, to make too many changes at once.

 

I was wondering why you did not continue moving your whole dose forward in the day, as suggested awhile back.......you don't have to answer that at all.  I think it's most likely due to your present symptoms and fears.

 

Hugs Hibari!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

So for today, if you would like to try to begin the split dose option.

At  7 pm take 4.4 mg Lamictal

At 8:30 pm take 5 mg Lamictal

 

Day 2:

6pm 4.4 mg Lamictal

8:30 pm  5 mg Lamictal

 

and so forth, until you have the 2 doses spread 10-12 hours apart.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Altostrata]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:00 AM, Hibari said:

If you're wary of reducing lamotrigine, splitting the dose might be helpful. You could move 4.4mg an hour or so earlier each day until you are taking it in the morning. This may be calming in the morning and evening, instead of triggering symptoms when you take it all in the evening.

I was actually thinking this when I woke up this morning. 

When would I take the other pill? 

If I do decide to split, would I still drop the dosage? 

 

You would take the lamotrigine doses 12 hours apart, as manymoretodays has suggested.

 

I would hold at 9.4mg per day for a while, until you understand your side effect pattern. With a split dose, you may not feel side effects. The lamotrigine may help with withdrawal symptoms from your other drugs. You may want to stay with 9.4mg lamotrigine for some months.

[Hibari]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Hibari,

 

Yay......I'm rooting for you to try the dose split option.  Just that. 

 

If I were you......I'd keep your 5 mg dose where it's at now.  Isn't it at 8 or 8:30 pm?

And then just move the 4.4 mg dose an hour or so earlier until you are taking it at 8am or 9 am.

And then, stay put with that........... until you see if sleep and activation symptoms are better. 

Oh, and I really hope some of the horrid depressive stuff, you are feeling improves as well......once your sleep improves.

 

Can you go with that?  One change at a time. 

The Rule of 3KIS

Oh.....I'd say if you go to liquid tapering, to not make any other changes at the same time.  That's just going to cause further nervous system confusion now, to make too many changes at once.

 

I was wondering why you did not continue moving your whole dose forward in the day, as suggested awhile back.......you don't have to answer that at all.  I think it's most likely due to your present symptoms and fears.

 

Hugs Hibari!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

So for today, if you would like to try to begin the split dose option.

At  7 pm take 4.4 mg Lamictal

At 8:30 pm take 5 mg Lamictal

 

Day 2:

6pm 4.4 mg Lamictal

8:30 pm  5 mg Lamictal

 

and so forth, until you have the 2 doses spread 10-12 hours apart.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  I was feeling a lot of fear and unable to make the changes.  

 

To be honest, I di make a small.drop to 9.2 last night because I was feeling so awful.  And to be very honest, I did part of the drop in liquid and part in a hard pill.  

 

I didn't sleep but the intensity of feeling sick was less.  

 

I know that those are two changes but my reason for doing so was that my scale was jumping and I didn't feel i could get an accurate dose.  I was so sick, depressed and scared.  

 

I'm sorry for jumping the gun but I was so frightened.  

 

So, I will try the method you mentioned.

 

And I'm sorry to ask because I know I have made choices out of fear.

 

Is it okay to do the schedule you suggested and keep it at:

 

7pm 9.2 liquid

8;30  5mg pill 

 

Or go back to 9.4 liquid?  

And 5mg pill.

 

My self-esteem is very low right now because I am so vulnerable. 

 

 

 

[Hibari]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

You would take the lamotrigine doses 12 hours apart, as manymoretodays has suggested.

 

I would hold at 9.4mg per day for a while, until you understand your side effect pattern. With a split dose, you may not feel side effects. The lamotrigine may help with withdrawal symptoms from your other drugs. You may want to stay with 9.4mg lamotrigine for some months.

Hi Alto,

 

Thank you.  

 

Do you mean that the lamotrigine is helping with the drugs I already got off of in the past?  

 

I want mind staying on Lamotrigine for a while once I stabilize.  My biggest prayer is too stabilize.  

[manymoretodays]

Hibari,   please note dosages in milligrams (mg).  I'm referring to your last question to me.  Do not take 9.2 mg and then 5 mg.  Please review the posts carefully before making any changes.  Ask for help to do so, if needed,from someone on the ground.  I don't want you to make an error in dosing.  Best, mmt

[Hibari]

1 minute ago, manymoretodays said:

Hibari,   please note dosages in milligrams (mg).  I'm referring to your last question to me.  Do not take 9.2 mg and then 5 mg.  Please review the posts carefully before making any changes.  Ask for help to do so, if needed,from someone on the ground.  I don't want you to make an error in dosing.  Best, mmt

I'm sorry i confused you by writing the numbers wrong. 

 

I meant, can I do:

 

7pm 4.2 ml (liquid)

8:30. 5mg pill 

Totalling 9.2 

 

Or keep it at

7pm 4.4 ml (liquiid)

8:30 5mg pill. 

Totalling 9.4 

 

As I said my scale is jumping which is why I switched to liquid but I will switch back if you suggest it.  

 

I have my husband help me when I need it.  

[manymoretodays]

Well.....as I see it.  You have a couple decisions to make.  And all the information that you need to make them.

 

If I were you, I would stick with your old measuring of the 4.4 mg dose.  And move that dose up an hour or so each day until you are taking 4.4 mg in the morning and then 5 mg, 12 hours later, in the evening/night(at 8:30 pm).  No daily dose changes.  Just timing(the split and moving a partial dose).  I mean if it were me......that's what I would do.  And then, HOLD, HOLD, HOLD for several months.

 

Keep on with notes as well.  On paper, then, share here when further questions arise.  Please note time on the left, drug(s) taken(note the name of the medication/drug), dosage, and symptoms on the right.  Keep notes on everything.  Acupuncture.  Diet.  Sleep.  Situations.  I still keep an old fashioned calendar with boxes, going for myself too.......  I can color code, write notes, and see trends as far as what's working.......my own progress, etc.  I journal daily as well......long form, more poetic, prayerful sometimes, and just fun.

 

Read and re-read the posts and answers/suggestions/impressions already given.

Thank you.

L, P, H, and growth,

(((((Hibari))))))

mmt

[Hibari]

25 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Well.....as I see it.  You have a couple decisions to make.  And all the information that you need to make them.

 

If I were you, I would stick with your old measuring of the 4.4 mg dose.  And move that dose up an hour or so each day until you are taking 4.4 mg in the morning and then 5 mg, 12 hours later, in the evening/night(at 8:30 pm).  No daily dose changes.  Just timing(the split and moving a partial dose).  I mean if it were me......that's what I would do.  And then, HOLD, HOLD, HOLD for several months.

 

Keep on with notes as well.  On paper, then, share here when further questions arise.  Please note time on the left, drug(s) taken(note the name of the medication/drug), dosage, and symptoms on the right.  Keep notes on everything.  Acupuncture.  Diet.  Sleep.  Situations.  I still keep an old fashioned calendar with boxes, going for myself too.......  I can color code, write notes, and see trends as far as what's working.......my own progress, etc.  I journal daily as well......long form, more poetic, prayerful sometimes, and just fun.

 

Read and re-read the posts and answers/suggestions/impressions already given.

Thank you.

L, P, H, and growth,

(((((Hibari))))))

mmt

Okay. So no liquid at this time just the split dose of 4.4 and 5.   

 

It's scary for me because I have felt the dose was a bit high and Alto thought maybe too.  But maybe the splitting will help.  And yes I will hold.  

 

 I don't trust the accuracy of the scale, it sometimes says one number and then it will be higher the next and then switch again. I have to weigh everything numerous times. 

 

I appreciate your help as I am very scared of making a wrong move.  

 

Thank you.  

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, Hibari said:

Or keep it at

7pm 4.4 ml (liquiid)

8:30 5mg pill. 

Totalling 9.4 

 

Are you making a liquid of 10mg lamotrigine in 10mL liquid? If so, then you are taking 4.4mg in 4.4mL.

 

A liquid is a good way to control a taper.

 

Yes, keep the daily total of 9.4mg the same. That way, we won't get confused about symptoms, if any, resulting from dividing the dosage.

 

At a low dose, lamotrigine can provide a crutch to help your nervous system recover from your earlier drugs.

[Hibari]

Yes then drawing up 4.4.ml

Then taking a 5mg pill. 

Kept the pill to make the transition easier.  

 

Thank you.  My instinct was to do the liquid because the scale is unpredictable.  

 

I separated the doses starting tonight.