Biloelagirl89: reinstated mirtazapine / Remeron

[Biloelagirl89]

Hi I started a atypical antipsychotic drug abilify 10mg for anxiety and irritability for the first time 2 months ago. I had a adverse reaction to it and developed akathisia. So I stopped the ablify immediately, but still had lingering akathisia form the abilify, So I decided to self medicate with mirtazapine 30mg morning and night to help subside the symptoms. I continue to do this for one week. As far as I knew it was a sleeping pill that my psychiatrist pribscribed me months ago that I never bothered to take. He just said do you want something to help you sleep? Anyway once the akathisia went away, I stopped the mirtazapine the same time, and About one week later I developed severe withdrawals. I decided to ride out the withdrawals up until week 6 until I couldn't take no more. So I decided to reinstate. My question is..... is it to late to reinstate, what dosage should I start on, and how long does it take to stabilize? I dont bother asking my psychiatrist because he doesn't believe you get withdrawals.

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Biloelagirl89.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.  Reinstatement works most predictably within 3 months after the last dose, so at 6 weeks you're well within the time frame.  Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

Your brain is sensitized from your cold turkey, and reinstating too much can overwhelm it.  I recommend reinstating 3mg Mirtazapine.  This link explains how to get small doses of Mirtazapine, either by having the dose made by a compounding pharmacy, making your own liquid, or making powder from tablets and weighing using the Gemini-20 scale available on Amazon.

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

6 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

how long does it take to stabilize?

It takes 4 days to reach full strength in your bloodstream and a few days more for the reinstatement to register in the brain.  The effect should get stronger during that time.  It still may take some weeks or months for your nervous system to settle down.  You probably will continue to have windows and waves (ups and downs) but symptoms won't be as intense.  Keep in mind that the purpose of reinstatement isn't to eliminate all withdrawal symptoms (though it does for some) but rather to make them tolerable.

 

It's a good idea to keep daily notes on paper to track how your reinstatement is going.  Please keep us updated.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Gridley

[Biloelagirl89]

Reinstatment dosages stabilization, and tapering

Hi I started a atypical antipsychotic drug abilify 10mg for anxiety and irritability for the first time 2 months ago. I had a adverse reaction to it and developed akathisia. So I stopped the ablify immediately, but still had lingering akathisia from the abilify, So I decided to self medicate with mirtazapine 30mg morning and night to help subside the symptoms. I continue to do this for one week. As far as I knew it was a sleeping pill that my psychiatrist pribscribed me months ago that I never bothered to take. He just said do you want something to help you sleep? Anyway once the akathisia went away, I stopped the mirtazapine the same time, and About one week later I developed severe withdrawals. I decided to ride out the withdrawals up until week 6 until I couldn't take no more. So I decided to reinstate. I also think I might have reinstated at to high of a dose at 15mg for 7 days. If I was to drop down a dose, will I kindle it an create new withdrawals?

My question is..... is it to late to reinstate, what dosage should I start on, and how long does it take to stabilize? I dont bother asking my psychiatrist because he doesn't believe you get withdrawals.

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[Biloelagirl89]

Hi I received your advice for reinstating the other day. Unfortunately I already took 15mg for 5 days and 7.5mg for 3 days prior. This was before i received the advice to reinstate at a low dose of 3 mg mirtazapine. What do I do now if I have already been taking the 15mg for 5 days, and 7.5mg for 3 days? Do I go back down to the  3mg like what has been advised or stick to the 7.5mg what I have been taking? 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by ChessieCat
extracted response from quote and removed quote

[Biloelagirl89]

21 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

Reinstatment dosages stabilization, and tapering

Hi I started a atypical antipsychotic drug abilify 10mg for anxiety and irritability for the first time 2 months ago. I had a adverse reaction to it and developed akathisia. So I stopped the ablify immediately, but still had lingering akathisia from the abilify, So I decided to self medicate with mirtazapine 30mg morning and night to help subside the symptoms. I continue to do this for one week. As far as I knew it was a sleeping pill that my psychiatrist pribscribed me months ago that I never bothered to take. He just said do you want something to help you sleep? Anyway once the akathisia went away, I stopped the mirtazapine the same time, and About one week later I developed severe withdrawals. I decided to ride out the withdrawals up until week 6 until I couldn't take no more. So I decided to reinstate is it to late? what dosage should I start on? I reinstated on 15 mg for 7 days, is this to high, should I drop down to 7.5 mg or will this cause more havoc on my CNS? I read down below I should of started on 3 mg, but buy than it was too late. What do I do now? I dont want to kindle.I was thinking of doing 7.5mg instead of 15 mg as it wont be to big of a drop as down to 3 mg. how long does it take to stabilize? I dont bother asking my psychiatrist because he doesn't believe you get withdrawals.please please help me

 

[Gridley]

11 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

Do I go back down to the  3mg like what has been advised or stick to the 7.5mg what I have been taking? 

How are you feeling?  I will be off-line for much of the day.  Stay at 7.5 until we next communicate.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Gridley

[manymoretodays]

On 10/9/2020 at 11:29 PM, Biloelagirl89 said:

So I decided to self medicate with mirtazapine 30mg morning and night to help subside the symptoms.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 11:29 PM, Biloelagirl89 said:

I decided to ride out the withdrawals up until week 6 until I couldn't take no more. So I decided to reinstate. My question is..... is it to late to reinstate, what dosage should I start on, and how long does it take to stabilize? I dont bother asking my psychiatrist because he doesn't believe you get withdrawals.

 

Copy of your signature:

-17th August started abilify 10mg 2020 to 24th of August 2020.

-Stopped abilify 10mg 7 days after taking it, as I developed induced akathisia on day 4.

-21st of August 2020 started self medicating 30mg morning and night mirtazapine to help subside the akathisa. 

- 28th of August 2020 stopped mirtazapine 30 mg morning and night cold Turkey.

-28th of August took       -Clonidine 50 mc morning and night.

-31 of October Reinstated Mirtazapine 15mg.

 

Hi Bgirl,

Please stop self medicating with what you might have laying around.  I notice that you also chose to use some Clonidine on August 28th.  If your intention is to begin to deal with stressors, without drugs, this dependence on drugs and psychiatrists  is just dumb.  Clonidine 50 mc????  Was this supposed to be mcg?  Looks like a large dose in any case.

You can look up drugs here:  Drugs.com

Use the search box at the top and you'll find more information, regarding medications BEFORE you take them.  Especially pay attention to side effects, as so many of these psych drugs, as you'll see have side effects quite similar to what you were hoping to easily eliminate, in the way of feelings and emotions.

 

You had an adverse reaction to the Abilify.  You might consider that a blessing in disguise.......that now you know, you are sensitive to antipsychotics, sometimes stupidly used for calming someone, or chemically altering them so they will mellow on out.

 

I agree with Gridley.  If you want off the Mirtazapine.......stay on the 7.5 mg for another day, I think that brings you to 4 days on 7.5 mg.  And then you could cut the pill further.  And just take 3.75 for another 4 days, and then stop.  Unlikely, that you will develop any significant WD(withdrawal) with just 2 weeks of usage total.   If you want to stay at the 3.75 mg dose perpetually, then that is fine too.  Less can be more, and then, if you are inclined to go drug free at some point, it will be less to taper off from later.  It will then, however, require some more cautious tapering when and if you decide to go off it later.  Do look at the link on mirtazapine/Remeron that Gridley supplied.  And the other links provided too, look at them, please. You could also take a look at it at Drugs.com too, and get a feel for all the varied side effects/adverse reactions that could occur, beyond whatever compelled you to see a shrink.

 

This will require you to deal with emotional upsets, worries, etc. in a brand new way.  And we've got a whole forum based called Symptoms and Self Care where you can find many different non-drug ways to deal with symptoms......both those that you might have had BEFORE hoping for a easy drug cure, and those that may still linger in the aftermath of your drug experimentations.  You might even want to find yourself an understanding therapist or friend to help you cope with life on life's terms.  Heck, we know it's not always easy.  I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm not a fan of psycho drugs.......I mean that's pretty obvious, eh?

 

Okie doke and welcome aboard.  Very sorry for the scare you had with Abilify.

Best intentions.

L, P, H, and G,

moderator manymoretodays

 

 

[Biloelagirl89]

10 hours ago, Gridley said:

How are you feeling?  I will be off-line for much of the day.  Stay at 7.5 until we next communicate.

I still have really bad vertigo. I reinstated on the 4th of Oct and done 15 mg and did that for 5 days and than took it down to 7.5mg. I saw your message just recently and you said to reinstate to 3mg. It has now been 9 days, 15mg five days, and 7.5 four days. Should I reinstated to 3mg like you said? Or stay at the 7.5mg ? As it's still only early days.  Im worried I have reinstatedat to high of a dose, but also Afraid of kindling. Thank u for time 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Biloelagirl89
I put reinstated at 31st of Oct which is the wrong date, it was the 4th of Oct, in my signature

[Biloelagirl89]

4 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

 

Copy of your signature:

-17th August started abilify 10mg 2020 to 24th of August 2020.

-Stopped abilify 10mg 7 days after taking it, as I developed induced akathisia on day 4.

-21st of August 2020 started self medicating 30mg morning and night mirtazapine to help subside the akathisa. 

- 28th of August 2020 stopped mirtazapine 30 mg morning and night cold Turkey.

-28th of August took       -Clonidine 50 mc morning and night.

-31 of October Reinstated Mirtazapine 15mg.

 

Hi Bgirl,

Please stop self medicating with what you might have laying around.  I notice that you also chose to use some Clonidine on August 28th.  If your intention is to begin to deal with stressors, without drugs, this dependence on drugs and psychiatrists  is just dumb.  Clonidine 50 mc????  Was this supposed to be mcg?  Looks like a large dose in any case.

You can look up drugs here:  Drugs.com

Use the search box at the top and you'll find more information, regarding medications BEFORE you take them.  Especially pay attention to side effects, as so many of these psych drugs, as you'll see have side effects quite similar to what you were hoping to easily eliminate, in the way of feelings and emotions.

 

You had an adverse reaction to the Abilify.  You might consider that a blessing in disguise.......that now you know, you are sensitive to antipsychotics, sometimes stupidly used for calming someone, or chemically altering them so they will mellow on out.

 

I agree with Gridley.  If you want off the Mirtazapine.......stay on the 7.5 mg for another day, I think that brings you to 4 days on 7.5 mg.  And then you could cut the pill further.  And just take 3.75 for another 4 days, and then stop.  Unlikely, that you will develop any significant WD(withdrawal) with just 2 weeks of usage total.   If you want to stay at the 3.75 mg dose perpetually, then that is fine too.  Less can be more, and then, if you are inclined to go drug free at some point, it will be less to taper off from later.  It will then, however, require some more cautious tapering when and if you decide to go off it later.  Do look at the link on mirtazapine/Remeron that Gridley supplied.  And the other links provided too, look at them, please. You could also take a look at it at Drugs.com too, and get a feel for all the varied side effects/adverse reactions that could occur, beyond whatever compelled you to see a shrink.

 

This will require you to deal with emotional upsets, worries, etc. in a brand new way.  And we've got a whole forum based called Symptoms and Self Care where you can find many different non-drug ways to deal with symptoms......both those that you might have had BEFORE hoping for a easy drug cure, and those that may still linger in the aftermath of your drug experimentations.  You might even want to find yourself an understanding therapist or friend to help you cope with life on life's terms.  Heck, we know it's not always easy.  I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm not a fan of psycho drugs.......I mean that's pretty obvious, eh?

 

Okie doke and welcome aboard.  Very sorry for the scare you had with Abilify.

Best intentions.

L, P, H, and G,

moderator manymoretodays

 

 

Hi I don't want to taper just yet, I want to reinstate and stabilize, as I went cold Turkey 7 weeks ago. I reinstated at 15mgs 9 days ago for 5 days than down to 7.5mg for 4 days, as I thought 15mgs was to high. I read gridley's post just recently and it said to start with 3mg, buy than it was to late. Now I'm torn between staying on 7.5mg or going down to 3mg like gridley said to start of with, but worried about kindling. It might still be early days to go to 3mg as i only reinstated 9 days ago. Any help would be appreciated.

[Gridley]

51 minutes ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

Or stay at the 7.5mg

If you want off the Mirtazapine--and I think that's a good idea--I would do what manymoretodays advised in the previous post.  You were only on the Mirtazapine for a few days, not long enough to become dependent, so the cold turkey would not have hurt you.  If you want to stay on the drug, I would again follow manymoretoday's advice and stay at 3.75 when you get to that dose.

[Biloelagirl89]

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

If you want off the Mirtazapine--and I think that's a good idea--I would do what manymoretodays advised in the previous post.  You were only on the Mirtazapine for a few days, not long enough to become dependent, so the cold turkey would not have hurt you.  If you want to stay on the drug, I would again follow manymoretoday's advice and stay at 3.75 when you get to that dose.

Hi thank u for your reply, I'm not sure what you mean sorry, im not looking to taper until I have stabilized. As I have just only reinstated. I took a high dose of mirtazapine for one week, 7 weeks ago and  developed severe withdrawal symptoms. I had to reinstate at week 6 because it was to unbearable. It has now been 9 days since I reinstated which was Oct the 4th. I reinstated at 15 mg, for 5 days, than realized I had to reinstate lower,  So i went down to 7.5mg which is now day 4 of taking 7.5mg, which I'm currently still on. it has been 9 days since I have reinstated. I didn't find this group up until a couple of days ago by than I had already reinstated. So my questions is.....should i stay on 7.5mg, which is what  I'm already taking?  or take gridleys adivce to go down to 3mg which what I should of started on? If I knew, I would of started the 3mg first. Even though I have already reinstated 9 days ago on 15mg for 5 days and 7.5mg for 4 days. Would this kindle my reinstatement if I was to go down to 3mg ? Or should I just leave it, and stay on the 7.5mg? Sorry If this is confusing, I have tried to make it as simple as possible.

[manymoretodays]

2 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

Hi thank u for your reply, I'm not sure what you mean sorry, im not looking to taper until I have stabilized. As I have just only reinstated. I took a high dose of mirtazapine for one week, 7 weeks ago and  developed severe withdrawal symptoms. I had to reinstate at week 6 because it was to unbearable. It has now been 9 days since I reinstated which was Oct the 4th. I reinstated at 15 mg, for 5 days, than realized I had to reinstate lower,  So i went down to 7.5mg which is now day 4 of taking 7.5mg, which I'm currently still on. it has been 9 days since I have reinstated. I didn't find this group up until a couple of days ago by than I had already reinstated. So my questions is.....should i stay on 7.5mg, which is what  I'm already taking?  or take gridleys adivce to go down to 3mg which what I should of started on? If I knew, I would of started the 3mg first. Even though I have already reinstated 9 days ago on 15mg for 5 days and 7.5mg for 4 days. Would this kindle my reinstatement if I was to go down to 3mg ? Or should I just leave it, and stay on the 7.5mg? Sorry If this is confusing, I have tried to make it as simple as possible.

 

Hi Bgirl,

If you got an untoward reaction to the high dose of mirt, then that would be more along the lines of a side effect/adverse reaction.

If the severe symptoms came after the CT(cold turkey) then yes, that would be WD.

And if you got WD symptoms after 7 days mirtazapine usage, the 3 mg or 3.75 mg dose now may help.  You could even work your way down to a bit less, say 1 or 2 mg.

 

Lower dose probably less likely to cause kindling.  If you scroll up and then go to the reinstatement link again, you'll find out more about this.  When we suggest reinstating, we ask members to start at sometimes even lower doses than the one you are going to.

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine(Remeron)

If you scroll down, in the first post ^, you'll see how you can get to a lowered dose.  I assumed you were working with a 30 mg tablet, and so.......suggested 1/4 of that, or what would be approximately 3.75 mg versus Gridley's 3 mg suggestion.  You'll also see how to more accurately get your doses of 3.75 mg or 3 mg.

And then, if you want to just stay on that for awhile, keep in mind that eventually, you will need to taper it, rather than just jump off from 3 mg or 3.75 mg. 

At that point, go with the:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage plan.

 

Are you still having symptoms from the Abilify?  And if so, what kind of symptoms?

What symptoms did you get from the 30 mg of mirtazapine?

What symptoms did you get when you jumped off the mirtazapine last time?

 

I don't really think that mirtazapine is going to be that great for symptoms you got from the Abilify.  But if that's what you are set on, then you can do that.  And......it may help with mirtazapine WD and get you to a better place of stability soon.  We all seek stability.

 

Anyway......I'm still a bit confused too, as to what happened with the mirtazapine you self medicated with the first time.  Sounds like the 30 mg WAS too much and then that even with just 7 days usage of 30 mg, when you CT(cold turkeyed) it, you did experience WD.   Is that what you are saying?

I'm sorry that we are having some communication difficulties.  It could be the Aussie to U.S. differences in speech and all......I don't know.  We can figure it out.

🥴

 

You can look up mirtazapine at the site I gave you above too, and see if that helps you further decide.  Look at the side effects.

 

With such a short trial of mirt so far, your chances are better, that WD may not even occur, from the mirtazapine.  What I gave you was a step down approach to getting off of it, rather than just quitting it CT.  Which would have you off in 4 more days.  Total time of usage then being 13 days.

 

It's up to you Bgirl.  We can give you information, and make suggests but ultimately it's up to you.

 

Keep us updated, ask any more questions right here, and let us know what kind of symptoms you are dealing with now.  We can point you toward some non-drug coping that might help too.

 

I hope that sounds okay.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

Hey again,

1/2 of a 30 mg tablet would be 15 mg, and then 1/4 tablet would be 7.5 mg.  So.........you may want to try liquid to get lower dosing.

Go ahead and see what your preference is, after looking at the link above on mirtazapine.

Maybe you have another dose strength of mirtazapine you might use to continue lowering the dose?

Let us know.

 

And apologies.....I don't usually do much screens this late.

Edited October 13, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Biloelagirl89]

28 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Hi Bgirl,

If you got an untoward reaction to the high dose of mirt, then that would be more along the lines of a side effect/adverse reaction.

If the severe symptoms came after the CT(cold turkey) then yes, that would be WD.

And if you got WD symptoms after 7 days mirtazapine usage, the 3 mg or 3.75 mg dose now may help.  You could even work your way down to a bit less, say 1 or 2 mg.

 

Lower dose probably less likely to cause kindling.  If you scroll up and then go to the reinstatement link again, you'll find out more about this.  When we suggest reinstating, we ask members to start at sometimes even lower doses than the one you are going to.

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine(Remeron)

If you scroll down, in the first post ^, you'll see how you can get to a lowered dose.  I assumed you were working with a 30 mg tablet, and so.......suggested 1/4 of that, or what would be approximately 3.75 mg versus Gridley's 3 mg suggestion.  You'll also see how to more accurately get your doses of 3.75 mg or 3 mg.

And then, if you want to just stay on that for awhile, keep in mind that eventually, you will need to taper it, rather than just jump off from 3 mg or 3.75 mg. 

At that point, go with the:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage plan.

 

Are you still having symptoms from the Abilify?  And if so, what kind of symptoms?

What symptoms did you get from the 30 mg of mirtazapine?

What symptoms did you get when you jumped off the mirtazapine last time?

 

I don't really think that mirtazapine is going to be that great for symptoms you got from the Abilify.  But if that's what you are set on, then you can do that.  And......it may help with mirtazapine WD and get you to a better place of stability soon.  We all seek stability.

 

Anyway......I'm still a bit confused too, as to what happened with the mirtazapine you self medicated with the first time.  Sounds like the 30 mg WAS too much and then that even with just 7 days usage of 30 mg, when you CT(cold turkeyed) it, you did experience WD.   Is that what you are saying?

I'm sorry that we are having some communication difficulties.  It could be the Aussie to U.S. differences in speech and all......I don't know.  We can figure it out.

🥴

 

You can look up mirtazapine at the site I gave you above too, and see if that helps you further decide.  Look at the side effects.

 

With such a short trial of mirt so far, your chances are better, that WD may not even occur, from the mirtazapine.  What I gave you was a step down approach to getting off of it, rather than just quitting it CT.  Which would have you off in 4 more days.  Total time of usage then being 13 days.

 

It's up to you Bgirl.  We can give you information, and make suggests but ultimately it's up to you.

 

Keep us updated, ask any more questions right here, and let us know what kind of symptoms you are dealing with now.  We can point you toward some non-drug coping that might help too.

 

I hope that sounds okay.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Hi I took abilify 10mg and got akathisia, so I stopped immediately, as I got akathisia from it. the akathisia from the abilify lasted one week. In the meantime I took mirtazapine 30mg morning and night to help subside the akathisa. Once the akathisia went away I stopped the mirtazapine the same time. The withdrawals began 10 days after stopping the mirtazapine. It was a high dose 60mg in one week. than cold Turkey the mirtazapine as soon as the akathisia was gone. I never knew it was a antidepressant, just thought it was a sleeping pill, as my psychiatrist wasn't clear on that. I dont think it will be abilify withdrawals, but even if it was, I won't be touching another anti psychotic drug again as it gives me akathisa. What does a upturn mean? So are are u saying I can change my dose and drop down from 7.5 down to 3.75mg? Will this not be kindling? And will I get withdrawals? Bc I have been taking the 15mg for 5 days and the 7.5mg for 4 days? I just want to reinstate so I can stabilized and then eventually taper once I am ready. I'm just worried I have reinstated on to high of a dose. And wondering if I should change it to the 3.75 that had been recommended? Do you think I will be ok on the 7.5mg? If not i will look into the tapering guidelines to lower my dose, I'm just worried I will get new withdrawals again through this new taper if I have to go down. But will do what's necessary. Please let me know what you think, and thank for your patience.

[Biloelagirl89]

I might break it down abit better 😊 I took 60mg Mirtazapine for one week. Than Went cold Turkey for 6 weeks. I reinstated at 6 weeks at 15mg for 5 days, than 7.5mg for 4 days. It's been 9 days in total since I reinstated. I am currently on 7.5mg and was looking to stabilized on this. until I got given gridley advice to reinstate on 3mg. I'm worried I have reinstated to high. I didn't find this group until I had already reinstated. So Should I stay on the 7.5mg like i have been taking already or try drop it to 3mg like what I was advice to do? I'm worried about kindling and getting more withdrawals, as I have already reinstated on 7.5mg.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Biloelagirl89

[manymoretodays]

Hi B,

I think you might be overthinking and ruminating a bit.  I know it's hard, but you need to just decide and then act.  We're not magicians or seers here.  Solly.

 

If you want to stabilize on 7.5 mg, then that's fine.  In my opinion, it's better to stabilize on the lowest possible dose, as then you will have less to taper off of later.

A lot of members have a heck of a time with mirtazapine tapers.

 

Again, if it was me, I'd go ahead and get on down to a lower dose NOW.  3 mg would be fine.  As would 3.75 mg.  We've been telling you this, and you need to just decide.  We can suggest and give you information until we are blue in the face and fingers.......but ultimately, you need to decide.

 

Why are you so worried and fixated on kindling?

And honestly, I don't know if you will have more kindling or less kindling.  Are you having WD symptoms now?  What symptoms did you have after your megadose trial of mirtazapine for one week and then CT?

12 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

The withdrawals began 10 days after stopping the mirtazapine. It was a high dose 60mg in one week. than cold Turkey the mirtazapine as soon as the akathisia was gone. I never knew it was a antidepressant, just thought it was a sleeping pill, as my psychiatrist wasn't clear on that. I dont think it will be abilify withdrawals, but even if it was, I won't be touching another anti psychotic drug again as it gives me akathisa. What does a upturn mean? So are are u saying I can change my dose and drop down from 7.5 down to 3.75mg? Will this not be kindling? And will I get withdrawals? Bc I have been taking the 15mg for 5 days and the 7.5mg for 4 days? I just want to reinstate so I can stabilized and then eventually taper once I am ready. I'm just worried I have reinstated on to high of a dose. And wondering if I should change it to the 3.75 that had been recommended? Do you think I will be ok on the 7.5mg? If not i will look into the tapering guidelines to lower my dose, I'm just worried I will get new withdrawals again through this new taper if I have to go down. But will do what's necessary. Please let me know what you think, and thank for your patience.

 

Okay, dropping your dose, is not kindling.  I don't know if you will get WD again.

Do you have any WD now?

And again, I don't know.

 

Basic kindling definition from wikipedia: Kindling(sedative-hypnotic withdrawal):

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol and benzodiazepines.

Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than in previous episodes. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures and death. Long-term use of GABAergic-acting sedative–hypnotic drugs causes chronic GABA receptor downregulation as well as glutamate overactivity, which can lead to drug and neurotransmitter sensitization, central nervous system hyperexcitability, and excitotoxicity.

 

And yes, sometimes this does apply to AD's, AP's, and all other types of psycho drugs.  It's not due to the GABA system though, but other receptors involved in other drugs.  And granted, that's a pretty bleak quote!!  Did you look up your mirtazapine yet, and learn just how it works?  What receptors might be involved?  I honestly don't think you are going to be Most Severe, and Kindled and have a horrid, most awful WD. 

 

If it was me, I'd want to get the heck off the mirtazapine quickly, but not completely CT. 

If I stayed on it, I would want to get to a lower dose than 7.5 mg.  You may however, do whatever you would like to do.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

(removed a few empty quotes, and also one that we already have somewhere above)

Edited October 13, 2020 by manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

Sorry B,

That all sounded so harsh........and the quote is almost fear mongering in intensity.......

You took a huge dose of mirtazapine the first time, that 60 mg split into 2 doses of 30 mg!

Sheesh, I hope it wasn't prescribed that way!

 

And you are not so far away now, from doing the reinstatement initially suggested, which was 3 mg.

If you can just pill cut down to 3.75 mg now, and that was why I suggested that dose, as opposed to 3 mg., then if I were you, I would do that.

You need to look at the mirtazapine tapering link, and then decide how to get close to that original suggest, with accuracy and consistency.  Pill cutting is not always the most accurate, but if I were you........I would not delay much further, before going down one more step, to a lower dose......approximately 3.75 mg.

Then decide how you want to maintain it, after looking at your options.......in the mirtazapine tapering link.

 

Are you dosing the current 7.5 mg just once a day now?  And when do you take it?

Also, current symptoms of WD, if any?  Please do tell.

 

Unless you have been going on and off these types of drugs for years now, I don't think your risk of kindling is going to be that high.   But I don't know for absolute certain.

 

Okay and best.

[Biloelagirl89]

17 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

I might break it down abit better 😊 I took 60mg Mirtazapine for one week. Than Went cold Turkey for 6 weeks. I reinstated at 6 weeks at 15mg for 5 days, than 7.5mg for 4 days. It's been 9 days in total since I reinstated. I am currently on 7.5mg and was looking to stabilized on this. until I got given gridley advice to reinstate on 3mg. I'm worried I have reinstated to high. I didn't find this group until I had already reinstated. So Should I stay on the 7.5mg like i have been taking already or try drop it to 3mg like what I was advice to do? I'm worried about kindling and getting more withdrawals, as I have already reinstated on 7.5mg.

 

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi B,

I think you might be overthinking and ruminating a bit.  I know it's hard, but you need to just decide and then act.  We're not magicians or seers here.  Solly.

 

If you want to stabilize on 7.5 mg, then that's fine.  In my opinion, it's better to stabilize on the lowest possible dose, as then you will have less to taper off of later.

A lot of members have a heck of a time with mirtazapine tapers.

 

Again, if it was me, I'd go ahead and get on down to a lower dose NOW.  3 mg would be fine.  As would 3.75 mg.  We've been telling you this, and you need to just decide.  We can suggest and give you information until we are blue in the face and fingers.......but ultimately, you need to decide.

 

Why are you so worried and fixated on kindling?

And honestly, I don't know if you will have more kindling or less kindling.  Are you having WD symptoms now?  What symptoms did you have after your megadose trial of mirtazapine for one week and then CT?

 

Okay, dropping your dose, is not kindling.  I don't know if you will get WD again.

Do you have any WD now?

And again, I don't know.

 

Basic kindling definition from wikipedia: Kindling(sedative-hypnotic withdrawal):

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol and benzodiazepines.

Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than in previous episodes. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures and death. Long-term use of GABAergic-acting sedative–hypnotic drugs causes chronic GABA receptor downregulation as well as glutamate overactivity, which can lead to drug and neurotransmitter sensitization, central nervous system hyperexcitability, and excitotoxicity.

 

And yes, sometimes this does apply to AD's, AP's, and all other types of psycho drugs.  It's not due to the GABA system though, but other receptors involved in other drugs.  And granted, that's a pretty bleak quote!!  Did you look up your mirtazapine yet, and learn just how it works?  What receptors might be involved?  I honestly don't think you are going to be Most Severe, and Kindled and have a horrid, most awful WD. 

 

If it was me, I'd want to get the heck off the mirtazapine quickly, but not completely CT. 

If I stayed on it, I would want to get to a lower dose than 7.5 mg.  You may however, do whatever you would like to do.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

(removed a few empty quotes, and also one that we already have somewhere above)

Thank u for your reply manymoretoday I was having severe withdrawals, and now still have somewhat withdrawals, mainly vertigo and blurred vision, is this normal with mirtazapine withdrawals? its driving me mad and probably increasing my anxiety further. If I can stay on the 7.5mg than i might, as I'm in hospital, and in Australia we dont make the dosages any lower. I asked about the liquid and they refused to do so. As long as I don't get any adverse effects by starting on a higher dose than that's all I care about. Not to say I won't, but was still worried my chances were going to be higher if I did, by stating a higher dose. Do you know when you start to stabilized? It's been 10 days for me since I reinstated and still have vertigo. I would love to know as much as I can as I'm in hospital and need as much information as possible, as I dont think these drs and nurses know to much about withdrawals and tapering, And dont want them to poly drug me.

[Biloelagirl89]

On 1/11/2020 at 4:42 AM, Gridley said:

Yes, wait around a week to ten days for the new dosage to reach full state in the blood. During this time there should be some gradual improvement as the days pass.   If there has been improvement, hold there to see how that dosage over the following weeks.  If after ten day there has been no improvement and symptoms remain intolerable, you can increase by a very small amount, like 1mg.

How do u increase it my 1mg? 

[ChessieCat]

37 minutes ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

How do u increase it my 1mg? 

 

See the links in Post #1 to tips for tapering different drugs in this topic:

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by ChessieCat

[manymoretodays]

(((((((( Bgirl)))))))  Hugs and butterfly wings.

 

Oh my gosh, I had no idea you were in the hospital.  And yes, under the circumstances, do stay on the 7.5 mg of mirtazapine.

I do hope that you can avoid poly drugging as well.

Don't worry about tapering right now either.  Okay?  Once you are home again and have a bit more stability, we can help you adjust doses to taper. 

You might like looking at this too:

Are we there yet? How long is withdrawal going to take?

I just linked to the first post ^, and you'll see the different topics that might help answer your questions. 

I hope that you get stable enough to go on home again soon, if it's been 10 days, some WD stability may be just around the corner.

 

On the mirtazapine.  It is usually just prescribed to be taken once a day, and is not a typical SSRI.  It does effect a couple of the neurotransmitters(and then receptors) and can be a bit sedating too, at least initially.

 

And yes......the vertigo and blurred vision do go with WD symptoms.

They may also result from too much of any of these drugs.  So that may help you to make a good case for going without further increases in your dosage, or additional medications at this time.  Take advantage of the bit of respite for yourself right now.  And I so hope it's not too bad of a place where you are hospitalized.

 

Anxiety is a side effect of mirtazapine, AND does go with WD symptoms too so that's going to be a tough one right now.

And in any case your poor nervous system is going to be pretty sensitized right now, after all of the recent, since August changes.......so do your best with non-drug coping, or developing some non-drug coping as soon as you can.

 

Many have done really well with:  The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

So look at that link and then if you are allowed, you can find her on you tube as well. 

I just did a you tube search and here are several video's of varying lengths that you could take a look at now:

Claire Weekes pass through panic

Hoping that will link up easy for you now, and the whole list of her video's comes up.  Some are short and I think you'll find comfort listening to her when you can.

Very down to earth and helpful stuff for anxiety and nerves.

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos......

^ this is another link to an on site topic as well, with some links to videos too, or guided meditations.

 

And just breathe Biloela, just breathe..........4 seconds in through the nose, hold for 7, and then 8 seconds out.  Nice and slowly.......you'll begin to relax a bit by the 3rd or 4th round.

 

Keep checking in bgirl.  And let us know when you are homebound again too.  I'll be back around in the evening tomorrow, or latest Thursday am.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

Hi Bgirl,

Found another link that might help your growing understanding of what is going on now, and find further answers to your questions:

After reinstating or updosing, how long to stabilize?

Keep in mind too, that we are all pretty individual in these processes too, as each of us has our own unique history, and stay positive!

 

Update when you are able.  Thanks.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Biloelagirl89]

Prozac bridge for mirtazapine withdrawals

I was wondering if you could do a prozac bridge for mirtazapine withdrawals? I done it before with lexapro and it worked. I have been withdrawaling from mirtazapine for 7 weeks. Has anyone this before? I'm kinda desperate 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[manymoretodays]

Hi Biloelagirl89, @Biloelagirl89

How are you today or tonight(Aussie time), or early morning???

 

When did you do the bridge from Lexapro to Prozac?

Can you tell a bit more about this, including year?

 

The Prozac switch or "bridging" with fluoxetine

^ and do read through this carefully

 

Do you think you might get support around this, while you are in the hospital and after?

I will just leave you that information, for now, and hoping to get some other opinions on this as well.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited October 15, 2020 by manymoretodays
@notification, since I didn't quote anything :-)

[manymoretodays]

Hi bgirl,

And I'm going just quote your PM here, I'd much rather keep your information, right here, in your introduction.

  

11 minutes ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

I did a prozac bridge a long time ago, I was on lexapro, then switch to prozac, than weaned of the prozac slowly, which made it more easier. I was just wanting to know if I could do this with the mirtazapine? Or do they have a different chemical make up, and could still get withdrawals with the  mirtazapine? Have you done this before with mirtazapine ? I reinstated back on mirtazpine on week 6 ct at 7.5mg but am still experiencing withdrawals after 2 weeks back on the mirtazapine. I'm trying to find options to help relieve my withdrawals symptoms as I dont feel like im getting any better. Thank u for your reply ❤

 

Are you still in the hospital? 

And yes, mirtazapine and Prozac/fluoxetine are a bit different.  And......you might not be in a great place right now, as far as nervous system dysregulation goes, to attempt a cross-over.  And I know you are trying very hard to get better.  If you think, it would be taken okay, by the prescribing doctor, you could share that link I gave you.  And if you think it would not go over very well, or be taken well........then don't share.  You certainly shouldn't attempt a cross-over on your own right now though. 

 

So, do  I personally know of anyone who crossed over to Prozac from mirtazapine?  I don't.

I think, for now.......the longer you can stay put with just one dose, without changes to it

Other options to deal with WD symptoms exist.......non-drug coping.  And again, so many can be found in our Symptoms and Self Care forum

You've mentioned panic, and high anxiety right now, vertigo, and blurred vision.

 

Are you sleeping much?  Even though it's been 2 weeks back on the mirtazapine, there have some changes in dose, during that time.  The nervous system really likes consistency.........you were at 15 mg, and now you are down to 7.5 mg, and like I said, I would, if I were you, just sit with the 7.5 mg dose for a bit longer, at least.......so things might stabilize.  I wish there were quick, quick fixes for WD and nervous system instability........as I'm sure you do too.........there just are not, very unfortunate. 

 

 

If you could, go ahead, and show us what a day looks like right now.  Keep it simple.  Note the time on the left, and then keep doing that throughout your day.  On the right, go ahead and note symptoms as they occur too, and when they let up, or even what seemed to help with them.  Note any supplements, and sleep.  Definitely note your mirtazapine by name and dose too, on the right.  This all will really help us to guide any further suggests, as much as we might be able to, while you are in hospital care.  This can really help us/you to see just how your drug or other intakes might be affecting you at this time.

Daily notes

 

And I know it must be really tough right now.  If it were me, hey, I'd be acting my way out of the hospital, as soon as possible, or faking it a bit.  However, if you just don't quite feel safe on your own right now.......take advantage of the respite from responsibilities.  Hospitals aren't usually geared for much beyond acute care, and starting medications.  At least that's how it goes in the U.S.  And take good, good care of bgirl..........this won't last forever. 

 

And okay, and so hoping to hear of even some slight improvement.........and soon!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Biloelagirl89]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:22 AM, Biloelagirl89 said:

How do u increase it my 1mg? 

Hi gridley how are u ? Apologies if my topics are all over the place, Im still getting used to this forum 😊 I am in hospital  atm and unfortunately i had to reinstate at 7.5mg bc that's the lowest dose they can do in Australia. It's been about 10 days since i have reinstated at 7.5mg and still having bad withdrawals. I just saw my psychiatrist just than, and he said the only reason why I'm withdrawing is bc my dose still isn't high enough to make me stable yet. He said I can updose to 15mg and i would be fine. Please tell me your thoughts ?because I am very confused and dont know what to do. Any help would be appreciated.

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

Apologies if my topics are all over the place, Im still getting used to this forum

 

The best idea would be for you to post here in your Introduction topic for the time being because the moderators check on the new posts from members.  If you post elsewhere your posts may not be seen.

 

I've moved some posts here from a different topic.

[Biloelagirl89]

Confused Reinstatment dosages question

 

I have a few questions on here today. But first I will tell you my story. I reinstated back on mirtazpine after 6 weeks cold Turkey. I was on 60mg for one week. I thought one week would not be enough to give me withdrawals, but it did, and bad!!!!! I reinstated back on 7.5mg. even though I was told to reinstate on just 3mgs on this forum. I couldn't becuse I'm in hospital and the lowest dose they go in Australia is 7.5mg. It's been 2 weeks since I reinstated back on 7.5mg, and dont feel like I have stabilized yet. should I wait it out longer to see if I start to feel better? My psychiatrist said its becuase my dose isn't high enough that's why I'm still withdrawing and probably should make it to 15mg. But on this forum it said to start at 3mg. Is that because you have to start low than eventually work your way up until you stabilized, Or just stay on that low dose until your withdrawals subside? I'm so confused. Please help me.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[Biloelagirl89]

On 6/30/2014 at 10:35 PM, chicken said:

I know this is an old post. Angel was able to get off Mirtz by cross tapering to Effexor. Would this work for others who are having great difficulty with Mirtz?

Is this true, that you can cross taper to effoxor?

[Gridley]

12 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

But on this forum it said to start at 3mg. Is that because you have to start low than eventually work your way up until you stabilized, Or just stay on that low dose until your withdrawals subside? I'm so confused. Please help me.

I know you're in the hospital, so you may not have much choice regarding dosage. The reason we say to reinstate much lower than your previous dose is that your brain has been sensitized by the cold turkey and too high a dose  of the drug can be too much for your brain to handle The idea is to start low and if the reinstatement doesn't work (it takes a little over a week for the reinstatement to reach full strength in your bloodstream and register in the brain), you would increase it a very small amount and give that time to work.  The idea is to reinstate the lowest amount that works to alleviate withdrawal.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Gridley

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Biloelagirl89

 

How did you feel when you reinstated 15mg mirtazapine? How do you feel taking 7.5mg? What are your current symptoms?

 

Did mirtazapine ever help the akathisia or other withdrawal symptoms from Abilify? Why did you choose to take 60mg per day? Why did you decide to quit?

 

Are you still taking 50mg clonidine per day since August 28? What effect does that have on you?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

10 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

Is this true, that you can cross taper to effoxor?

 

You can cross taper to any drug, but it is not always a good idea and/or the best thing to do.  Switching your drugs around can confuse your brain and sensitise your nervous system, and you can end up with withdrawal from the first drug, start up issues with the new drug and/or adverse reactions from the new drug.  Because there are two drugs involved you will not know what is causing any issues.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Bgirl,

There are a couple questions for you 2 posts up.

And then could you give a try at some Notes.

On 10/15/2020 at 4:44 PM, manymoretodays said:

If you could, go ahead, and show us what a day looks like right now.  Keep it simple.  Note the time on the left, and then keep doing that throughout your day.  On the right, go ahead and note symptoms as they occur too, and when they let up, or even what seemed to help with them.  Note any supplements, and sleep.  Definitely note your mirtazapine by name and dose too, on the right.  This all will really help us to guide any further suggests, as much as we might be able to, while you are in hospital care.  This can really help us/you to see just how your drug or other intakes might be affecting you at this time.

Daily notes

 

Here's a sample note to help you:

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Of course we'd want to see your drug by name and dose and your symptoms.

 

Rooting for you Bgirl!!

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Biloelagirl89]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:22 AM, Biloelagirl89 said:

Update it's been 2 weeks since I reinstated at 7.5mg mirtazapine. I reinstated at 6 weeks cold Turkey. I still feel no better, do I gradually increase my dosage again? Is that how it works with reinstateing?

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Bgirl,

Can you give us a better picture of what your symptoms look like in regards to when you take the mirtazapine every night.

It's really difficult to make any suggestions without that.

 

And yes, that's correct.......small and slow updoses, often outside of the manufactured doses, is often what we might suggest, depending on your situation.   Careful observation, on a daily basis, by you after, or around any drug changes........is required.  So a try at the Notes can be helpful, not only for you, but for us to see.

 

Try and attend to ?'s asked:

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, @Biloelagirl89

 

How did you feel when you reinstated 15mg mirtazapine? How do you feel taking 7.5mg? What are your current symptoms?

 

Did mirtazapine ever help the akathisia or other withdrawal symptoms from Abilify? Why did you choose to take 60mg per day? Why did you decide to quit?

 

Are you still taking 50mg clonidine per day since August 28? What effect does that have on you?

 

 

 

And, I know that you have shared symptoms before.

 

On 10/15/2020 at 4:44 PM, manymoretodays said:

You've mentioned panic, and high anxiety right now, vertigo, and blurred vision.

 

Just a little more detail as to when they occur during the day, in relation to your medication. 

 

Best done in the format I outlined above.  I showed you a sample note. 2 posts up.

Note the date, today for example.  We need to know what is happening right now, not 5 days ago, when you give a try at Notes.

Describe symptoms rather than using broad terms like "akathisia" if you can.

 

I know it's tough, just give a good try please.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

We know it's hard right now, and we'd like to help. 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Biloelagirl89,

I'm wondering how you are?  When you can, please update.

 

(((((Bgirl)))))

L, P, H, and G,

mmt