Zant808: 17+ years of psychiatric drugging

[SeasideDiva]

Great to hear from you Zant!

 

I think of you often and send along positive vibes...

 

Best..

S

[Shep]

I'm glad you're home and posting again, Zant. Please give an update when you feel up to it.

 

Sending healing vibes your way.

[Zant808]

Great to hear from you Zant!

 

I think of you often and send along positive vibes...

 

Best..

S

 

 

Thank you SeasideDiva!  I hope you are doing well.

 

 

I'm glad you're home and posting again, Zant. Please give an update when you feel up to it.

 

Sending healing vibes your way.

 

Thanks Shep.  Right now things are a mess.  My stepfather fell ill shortly after I got out of the hospital so that required a hospitalization of his own.  I'm just trying to take some of the pressure off of my mother during all of this by helping her with whatever I can.  I wish my mother would realize that she and I cannot be nurses for him much longer and would consider a nursing home.  The day hospital I have to attend eats up quite a lot of time.  I'm now taking 1250 Depakote ER, 3 mg Klonopin, 2.5 mg Zyprexa, 25 mg Anafranil, 50 mg Trazodone and 50 mg Vistaril.  This mega cocktail of medication is producing anywhere between 8 and 12 hours of sleep per day if you count naps.

 

My pdoc wants me off of Zyprexa very quickly because I am gaining to much weight and do not want to run the risk of getting diabetes.  A month ago I was on 7.5 mg of Zyprexa in the hospital.  I feel extremely numbed up again.  I am disappointed in the outcome of all of this.  I wonder if I'll ever have the strength to come off the medications again.  Assuming it takes 5 years to come off everything at a super slow pace this time, I would have to suspect that sometime during those 5 years I would experience a serious life event such as death of a loved one.  What would that do to my nervous system while reducing medications?  Would I feel nothing or would I crash and burn and wind up in the hospital again?  If my mother was not alive to take me back in, I would be bounced around from hospital to hospital until eventually I would be dropped off at a homeless shelter.  There's a lot to think about.

[Shep]

Hi, Zant.

 

Thanks for posting your updated information. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this many drugs, as well as dealing with an ill stepfather. I'm sure your mother appreciates all you do to help out. But now you need to concentrate on YOU and take care of yourself. 

 

I placed your drugs in the drug interaction checker, and there are numerous major and moderate interactions that are very concerning.  Please see the report here:  https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,702-355,918-483,703-357,1303-775,1744-1113

 

You have "sleep state misperception" in your signature. Is the day hospital helping you with this? Are you able to get some mindfulness or CBT therapy? This is really important if you're going to take on life without meds. You really do need to develop some coping skills beyond meds and hospitals. You're right - there's a lot to think about and I hope the day hospital is offering some non-drug ways of handling your insomnia, anxiety, and stress. 

 

Please let us know how long you've been on each medication, as you may be able to come off some of them more quickly if they were recently added. I'm going to ask the other mods to give feedback as well, as this is an extremely complicated cocktail of drugs.

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

 

 

[Zant808]

Hi, Zant.

 

Thanks for posting your updated information. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this many drugs, as well as dealing with an ill stepfather. I'm sure your mother appreciates all you do to help out. But now you need to concentrate on YOU and take care of yourself. 

 

I placed your drugs in the drug interaction checker, and there are numerous major and moderate interactions that are very concerning.  Please see the report here:  https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,702-355,918-483,703-357,1303-775,1744-1113

 

You have "sleep state misperception" in your signature. Is the day hospital helping you with this? Are you able to get some mindfulness or CBT therapy? This is really important if you're going to take on life without meds. You really do need to develop some coping skills beyond meds and hospitals. You're right - there's a lot to think about and I hope the day hospital is offering some non-drug ways of handling your insomnia, anxiety, and stress. 

 

Please let us know how long you've been on each medication, as you may be able to come off some of them more quickly if they were recently added. I'm going to ask the other mods to give feedback as well, as this is an extremely complicated cocktail of drugs.

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

 

Shep,

 

I have changed my signature to reflect current major side effects instead of withdrawal effects.  Insomnia and sleep state misperception are no longer an issue because all six of those medications are used for sleep.  I have checked out the list of drug interactions you posted.  It's amazing that there are so many things that were flagged as dangerous.  When I went to the pharmacy and asked if there were any side effects or drug interactions, I was told there were no dangerous drug interactions but that I might get dry mouth and feel sedated if medication is taken during the day time.

 

The day hospital does nothing for me except for build a structure where I am supposed to get up at a certain time, attend a place to interact with others in person and go home.  It is pretty much similar to inpatient.  We learn about CBT, but it is not offered to anyone.  Mindfulness is never mentioned.  We do simple things such as coloring, watch old VHS tapes on mental health, get told to eat healthy (even though they serve junk food) and are told to listen to the psychiatrist and to stay on our medications.

 

Here are the approximate dates of medications being reintroduced into my system:

 

1250 Depakote ER - 6/23/2016

3 mg Klonopin - August 2009

2.5 mg Zyprexa - 6/23/2016 (the dose changed from 5 mg to 7.5 mg and back frequently)

25 mg Anafranil - 7/6/2016

50 mg Trazodone - 7/1/2016 (prescribed as PRN / taken as needed but I always took it)

50 mg Vistaril - 7/1/2016 (prescribed as PRN / taken as needed but I always took it)

 

Both Haldol and Cogentin (to prevent tardive dyskinesia) were also given to me as a PRN starting on 6/23/2016.  I tried them maybe 3 times and even though Haldol is an old antipsychotic, it did nothing to induce sleep and was like taking a placebo.

 

Thanks,

Zant

[nz11]

Zant i am sorry you are now in this position.

 

The taper was either too quick or I really have bipolar disorder and my illness is getting worse over time.

I think you know what we all think has occurred.

[nz11]

This is what I learned today:

The American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic and statistical manual (DSM-4) explicitly states that,

"manic- like [hypo-manic -like] episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g. medication…) should not count toward a diagnosis of bipolar I [or bipolar II] disorder" because these are drug induced states.

 

Why are these doctors making assertions that aren't even consistent with their own training or for that matter aren't even consistent with the drugs product information which states that antidepressants can cause "activation of mania/hypomania"

[i'm sure this is probably true for all psychotropic drugs including depakote].

[JanCarol]

Hey Zant - 

 

Here's an updated interactions report on your new "cocktail" (don't you hate that word, like something light and fizzy and fun!)

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

Major trazodone  clomipramine

Applies to: trazodone, Anafranil (clomipramine)

Using traZODone together with clomiPRAMINE can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Major clonazepam  olanzapine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Zyprexa (olanzapine)

Ask your doctor before using clonazePAM together with OLANZapine. This can cause low blood pressure, shallow breathing, weak pulse, muscle weakness, drowsiness, dizziness and slurred speech. This may be more likely to occur in older adults or those with a debilitating condition. You should be counseled to avoid activities requiring mental alertness until you know how these medications will affect you. If your doctor prescribes these medications together, you may need a dose adjustment or special tests to safely use these medications together. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clonazepam  trazodone

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), trazodone

Using clonazePAM together with traZODone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate hydroxyzine  olanzapine

Applies to: Vistaril (hydroxyzine), Zyprexa (olanzapine)

Using hydrOXYzine together with OLANZapine may increase side effects such as drowsiness, blurred vision, dry mouth, heat intolerance, flushing, decreased sweating, difficulty urinating, abdominal cramping, constipation, irregular heartbeat, confusion, and memory problems. Side effects may be more likely to occur in the elderly or those with a debilitating condition. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clomipramine  olanzapine

Applies to: Anafranil (clomipramine), Zyprexa (olanzapine)

Using clomiPRAMINE together with OLANZapine may increase side effects such as drowsiness, blurred vision, dry mouth, heat intolerance, flushing, decreased sweating, difficulty urinating, abdominal cramping, constipation, irregular heartbeat, confusion, and memory problems. Side effects may be more likely to occur in the elderly or those with a debilitating condition. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate trazodone  olanzapine

Applies to: trazodone, Zyprexa (olanzapine)

Using traZODone together with OLANZapine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate hydroxyzine  divalproex sodium

Applies to: Vistaril (hydroxyzine), Depakote ER (divalproex sodium)

Using hydrOXYzine together with divalproex sodium may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clomipramine  divalproex sodium

Applies to: Anafranil (clomipramine), Depakote ER (divalproex sodium)

Before using clomiPRAMINE, tell your doctor if you also use divalproex sodium. This combination may cause uneven heartbeats, extreme drowsiness, dizziness, confusion, blurred vision, and seizures. If you take both medications together, tell your doctor if you have any of these symptoms. You may need a dose adjustment or special tests if you take both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate trazodone  divalproex sodium

Applies to: trazodone, Depakote ER (divalproex sodium)

Using traZODone together with divalproex sodium may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clonazepam  divalproex sodium

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Depakote ER (divalproex sodium)

Before taking clonazePAM, tell your doctor if you also use divalproex sodium. You may need dose adjustments or special tests in order to safely take both medications together. This combination may affect seizure control and cause drowsiness. You should avoid driving until you know how these medications will affect you. It is important that you tell your healthcare provider about all other medications that you are using including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using your medications without first talking to your doctor first.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clomipramine  hydroxyzine

Applies to: Anafranil (clomipramine), Vistaril (hydroxyzine)

Using clomiPRAMINE together with hydrOXYzine may increase side effects such as drowsiness, blurred vision, dry mouth, heat intolerance, flushing, decreased sweating, difficulty urinating, abdominal cramping, constipation, irregular heartbeat, confusion, and memory problems. Side effects may be more likely to occur in the elderly or those with a debilitating condition. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate trazodone  hydroxyzine

Applies to: trazodone, Vistaril (hydroxyzine)

Using traZODone together with hydrOXYzine can increase the risk of an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a rare side effect. You may be more susceptible if you have a heart condition called congenital long QT syndrome, other cardiac diseases, conduction abnormalities, or electrolyte disturbances (for example, magnesium or potassium loss due to severe or prolonged diarrhea or vomiting). Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you develop sudden dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, shortness of breath, or heart palpitations during treatment with these medications, whether together or alone. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clonazepam  clomipramine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Anafranil (clomipramine)

Using clomiPRAMINE together with clonazePAM may add to dizziness, drowsiness, breathing problems, and other side effects. This may be more likely to occur in older adults or those with a debilitating condition. Talk with your doctor before using clonazePAM together with clomiPRAMINE. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate divalproex sodium  olanzapine

Applies to: Depakote ER (divalproex sodium), Zyprexa (olanzapine)

Using divalproex sodium together with OLANZapine can increase the risk of liver problems. Talk with your doctor before using these medications together. This can cause fever, rash, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, fatigue, right upper abdomianal pain, dark urine, and yellowish skin. If you take both medications together, tell your doctor if you have any of these symptoms. You may need a dose adjustment or special test if you take both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

 

You speak of your father's illness - and your mother and you caring for him.  Did your mother break down too?  What is the nature of your father's illness that he needs so much care?  Can you get help with him from local programs?  I know my Mom refused all the local programs, they offered to build her a ramp, and meals on wheels, and a few other services, and she paid a cleaner to come, but instead she surrendered into assisted living (but she is 87 years old, her main illness is that she is wobbly mentally and physically from 20 years of xanax!)

 

It's hard for us to help, right now, you pretty much have to take what they gave you in hospital.

 

There is a small chance you could start by removing the short term ones - like trazodone, anafranil and vistaril. BUT ONLY ONE AT A TIME.  But are you stable?  
 

If you are not stable it is no time to be cutting drugs, even though there are some major interactions here.  I'm hoping that other mods will chime in with some suggestions.

 

I'm sorry this has happened.  Unfortunately, that's what happens when you turn yourself over to them, and now your hard work must start over.  Unless you can control your behaviour, they will control your behaviour for you.  Apparently you must have been pretty florid for them to dole out a cocktail like this!  And, like NZ says, "You can't diagnose a drug reaction!"

 

Your day program sounds useless.  Why TELL you about CBT if they are not going to TEACH it?  Sheesh!  It almost sounds like they don't want you to get better, they just want you to accept the drugs as 'treatment.'  

 

You can learn more about CBT here on SA, if you like:  Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) for Anxiety, Depression

 

Or there's a newer version, called ACT (Acceptance and Committment Therapy) from Russ Harris' book, "The Happiness Trap," which many have found to be helpful.  Here is an Aussie doctor describing it:  Dr. Rob Purssey's ACT Tips - Acceptance and Commitment Therapy

 

Take care Zant, steady as she goes!

[Shep]

Shep,

 

I have changed my signature to reflect current major side effects instead of withdrawal effects.  Insomnia and sleep state misperception are no longer an issue because all six of those medications are used for sleep.  I have checked out the list of drug interactions you posted.  It's amazing that there are so many things that were flagged as dangerous.  When I went to the pharmacy and asked if there were any side effects or drug interactions, I was told there were no dangerous drug interactions but that I might get dry mouth and feel sedated if medication is taken during the day time.

 

 

Thanks for providing the details of your new drug cocktail. Please continue to update your symptoms and take note of what Jan posted about possibly being able to remove some of the new drugs, but ONLY IF YOU ARE STABLE. This is important.

 

As far as the "sleep state misperception" not being an issue, I'm not sure I understand how being drugged into unconsciousness is going to help long term.  This is like treating an abscess tooth with pain killers instead of dealing with the root cause. The fact that your pharmacist lied about the drug interactions should be a major red flag on how those perceived with so-called mental illness are treated. But your life is worth more than that. 

 

 

The day hospital does nothing for me except for build a structure where I am supposed to get up at a certain time, attend a place to interact with others in person and go home.  It is pretty much similar to inpatient.  We learn about CBT, but it is not offered to anyone.  Mindfulness is never mentioned.  We do simple things such as coloring, watch old VHS tapes on mental health, get told to eat healthy (even though they serve junk food) and are told to listen to the psychiatrist and to stay on our medications.

 

 

Like Jan said, it's ridiculous to tell you about CBT and not offer it. Please look over the links she provided, and I'm going to provide one for a free on-line mindfulness course:

 

http://palousemindfulness.com/

 

 

 I wonder if I'll ever have the strength to come off the medications again.  Assuming it takes 5 years to come off everything at a super slow pace this time, I would have to suspect that sometime during those 5 years I would experience a serious life event such as death of a loved one.  What would that do to my nervous system while reducing medications?  Would I feel nothing or would I crash and burn and wind up in the hospital again?  If my mother was not alive to take me back in, I would be bounced around from hospital to hospital until eventually I would be dropped off at a homeless shelter.  There's a lot to think about.

 

 

 

It's like you're in this very toxic and abusive relationship, Zant. Just like an abused partner, you keep repeating the cycle. You rushed your previous taper (please read back through this thread), which resulted in destabilization and made your insomnia worse. And then you panicked and ran right back to the hospital, as if it were your "safe place". But what happened? They drugged you with a very dangerous drug cocktail, didn't provide any "real" therapy, and sent you home. 

 

You've been there before, again and again. 

 

My suggestions:

 

1. Stabilize on your current regime, possibly dropping the newer drugs IF YOU ARE STABLE ENOUGH. But please ask for feedback on this so the more seasoned mods can weigh in and offer suggestions.

 

2. You need to make contact with the real world. From what you've written, your life revolves around these drugs, the hospital, helping out your parents. It's good you help out your parents, but as you've said, when they're gone, you have no resources left. YOU need to become your own resource, your own safe place. 

 

In order to do this, you could look into doing some part-time volunteer work after you're stable. There are always animals shelters, nursing homes, food banks, and other places looking for a volunteers to show up a couple of hours a week. This will build up a resume so you can eventually find a paying job. And you'll build up your confidence. One success will build on the previous success. There will be setbacks, but you'll learn and grow. And then you'll be able to handle anything life throws at you. It doesn't happen overnight - it's a process. But trust me on this, Zant, it's a very fulfilling process. I've been there. I've lived through this. It CAN have a really good ending. 

 

3. Stop catastrophizing.  Here are some threads on how to stop these negative thoughts and build some coping skills:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Neuro Emotions

 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

The hospital is not giving you these resources, but SA is. So you have what you need, no excuses. 

 

Zant, I have a lot of fear for your future if you continue to view the drugs and the hospital as your "safe place". For one thing, you are kindling your entire nervous system:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

At some point, your mind and body are going to collapse from the sheer weight of these drugs. If getting off these drugs is what you want, please read through your entire thread. Focus on your future - volunteer work, getting more education if you need (look into free or low-cost resources in your area), eating well and exercise as you are able. This could be your future, not the dark, dismal hospital-to-homeless-shelter future you wrote about. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[Zant808]

Zant i am sorry you are now in this position.

 

The taper was either too quick or I really have bipolar disorder and my illness is getting worse over time.

I think you know what we all think has occurred.

 

 

If it weren't for the time where I got off all meds successfully in July 2007, I would have to believe it was really bipolar disorder.  Then again, believing the masses and thinking I really have bipolar disorder allows me to find an excuse for what has been going on with unknown results as to how my system will be able to handle these meds again.  Going against the masses and trying again with an even slower taper will be extremely difficult work with unknown results as to what type of withdrawal symptoms I will get.  I'm sure it is apparent to everyone by now that insomnia is what defeats me quite easily whereas other withdrawal symptoms I can handle.

 

This is what I learned today:

The American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic and statistical manual (DSM-4) explicitly states that,

"manic- like [hypo-manic -like] episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g. medication…) should not count toward a diagnosis of bipolar I [or bipolar II] disorder" because these are drug induced states.

 

Why are these doctors making assertions that aren't even consistent with their own training or for that matter aren't even consistent with the drugs product information which states that antidepressants can cause "activation of mania/hypomania"

[i'm sure this is probably true for all psychotropic drugs including depakote].

 

I'm not surprised at this at all.  Depakote is supposed to stop mania/hypomania but it can in fact cause it.  I still have the diagnosis of bipolar NOS.  However, psychiatrists are supposed to be working based on the DSM-5 now.  In the DSM-5 the bipolar NOS diagnosis no longer exists.

 

 

 

You speak of your father's illness - and your mother and you caring for him.  Did your mother break down too?  What is the nature of your father's illness that he needs so much care?  Can you get help with him from local programs?  I know my Mom refused all the local programs, they offered to build her a ramp, and meals on wheels, and a few other services, and she paid a cleaner to come, but instead she surrendered into assisted living (but she is 87 years old, her main illness is that she is wobbly mentally and physically from 20 years of xanax!)

 

 

 

It's hard for us to help, right now, you pretty much have to take what they gave you in hospital.

 

There is a small chance you could start by removing the short term ones - like trazodone, anafranil and vistaril. BUT ONLY ONE AT A TIME.  But are you stable?  

 

If you are not stable it is no time to be cutting drugs, even though there are some major interactions here.  I'm hoping that other mods will chime in with some suggestions.

 

I'm sorry this has happened.  Unfortunately, that's what happens when you turn yourself over to them, and now your hard work must start over.  Unless you can control your behaviour, they will control your behaviour for you.  Apparently you must have been pretty florid for them to dole out a cocktail like this!  And, like NZ says, "You can't diagnose a drug reaction!"

 

Your day program sounds useless.  Why TELL you about CBT if they are not going to TEACH it?  Sheesh!  It almost sounds like they don't want you to get better, they just want you to accept the drugs as 'treatment.'  

 

You can learn more about CBT here on SA, if you like:  Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) for Anxiety, Depression

 

Or there's a newer version, called ACT (Acceptance and Committment Therapy) from Russ Harris' book, "The Happiness Trap," which many have found to be helpful.  Here is an Aussie doctor describing it:  Dr. Rob Purssey's ACT Tips - Acceptance and Commitment Therapy

 

Take care Zant, steady as she goes!

 

 

 

 

I have not seen my biological father since I was about 4 years old.  The person I am speaking of is my stepfather.  My mother has never broken down and everyone in the family is surprised by this.  She is very resilient.  She was an an admin for multiple executives prior to her retirement, so she is very organized.  She claims that smoking cigarettes all of her life is what keeps her so calm all of the time.  She has never been able to quit smoking no matter how many times she tried.  My stepfather had a TIA around the year 2000 but it didn't really affect him that much.  He was still able to work.  Around 2005, he got diabetes because of a lifetime of eating junk food and being overweight.  Around 2010, he started to show signs of dementia.  In 2014, he had to have surgery on his legs to remove a blood clot so he could walk normally again.  In March 2016, he had a full stroke which was really the final blow to his functioning.  Last week, he had to go to the hospital because he became delirious from a fever.  So it wasn't another stroke after all.

 

My mom does not want to forfeit the money she saved up her entire life to pay for my stepfather's care.  She does not understand that time is more valuable than money.  She has no concept of opportunity cost.  For example, she will argue on the phone against a $3 charge for over an hour when in reality her time is worth far more than $3.  She obviously doesn't need the $3 but it feels like even though she is in her early 70's it is almost as she believes she is immortal.  She just wants to be right about everything all of the time and to take control over people's lives.  I think she would be bored if my stepfather and I weren't sick.  Neither of them want to get help from local programs and I have no legal authority to interfere.

 

I would say that I am stable now but I still need to see what happens once I am at 0 mg of Zyprexa.  I am down to 1.25 mg of Zyprexa now and I am still getting the same amount of sleep that I was getting at 7.5 mg of Zyprexa.  I don't feel any withdrawal symptoms from dropping the Zyprexa.  This is what the psychiatrist wanted me to do while inpatient to stop the rapid weight gain and to prevent getting diabetes.

 

The day hospital is quite useless with the exception of providing structure to the morning and afternoon.  I don't even have a psychiatrist assigned to me yet.  There is a "graduation" from the day hospital where I can go back to how it used to be where I would see a psychiatrist for 15 minutes every month and see a therapist for a hour every month.  But I will not get to see a psychiatrist who will support withdrawal.  I am not able to see my friend who is a psychiatrist until the private practice is built and that will won't be for a while.  So I am really stuck with the finding a withdrawal psychiatrist problem first.  I cannot be sneaky about withdrawing from Depakote because I have to get frequent blood tests to see if I'm in the therapeutic range.

 

I will take a look at the CBT/ACT resources and put them to use.  Hopefully these things can help me cope with my greatest enemy in withdrawal which is of course insomnia.

 

 

 

Shep,

 

I have changed my signature to reflect current major side effects instead of withdrawal effects.  Insomnia and sleep state misperception are no longer an issue because all six of those medications are used for sleep.  I have checked out the list of drug interactions you posted.  It's amazing that there are so many things that were flagged as dangerous.  When I went to the pharmacy and asked if there were any side effects or drug interactions, I was told there were no dangerous drug interactions but that I might get dry mouth and feel sedated if medication is taken during the day time.

 

 

Thanks for providing the details of your new drug cocktail. Please continue to update your symptoms and take note of what Jan posted about possibly being able to remove some of the new drugs, but ONLY IF YOU ARE STABLE. This is important.

 

As far as the "sleep state misperception" not being an issue, I'm not sure I understand how being drugged into unconsciousness is going to help long term.  This is like treating an abscess tooth with pain killers instead of dealing with the root cause. The fact that your pharmacist lied about the drug interactions should be a major red flag on how those perceived with so-called mental illness are treated. But your life is worth more than that. 

 

 

The day hospital does nothing for me except for build a structure where I am supposed to get up at a certain time, attend a place to interact with others in person and go home.  It is pretty much similar to inpatient.  We learn about CBT, but it is not offered to anyone.  Mindfulness is never mentioned.  We do simple things such as coloring, watch old VHS tapes on mental health, get told to eat healthy (even though they serve junk food) and are told to listen to the psychiatrist and to stay on our medications.

 

 

Like Jan said, it's ridiculous to tell you about CBT and not offer it. Please look over the links she provided, and I'm going to provide one for a free on-line mindfulness course:

 

http://palousemindfulness.com/

 

 

 I wonder if I'll ever have the strength to come off the medications again.  Assuming it takes 5 years to come off everything at a super slow pace this time, I would have to suspect that sometime during those 5 years I would experience a serious life event such as death of a loved one.  What would that do to my nervous system while reducing medications?  Would I feel nothing or would I crash and burn and wind up in the hospital again?  If my mother was not alive to take me back in, I would be bounced around from hospital to hospital until eventually I would be dropped off at a homeless shelter.  There's a lot to think about.

 

 

 

It's like you're in this very toxic and abusive relationship, Zant. Just like an abused partner, you keep repeating the cycle. You rushed your previous taper (please read back through this thread), which resulted in destabilization and made your insomnia worse. And then you panicked and ran right back to the hospital, as if it were your "safe place". But what happened? They drugged you with a very dangerous drug cocktail, didn't provide any "real" therapy, and sent you home. 

 

You've been there before, again and again. 

 

My suggestions:

 

1. Stabilize on your current regime, possibly dropping the newer drugs IF YOU ARE STABLE ENOUGH. But please ask for feedback on this so the more seasoned mods can weigh in and offer suggestions.

 

2. You need to make contact with the real world. From what you've written, your life revolves around these drugs, the hospital, helping out your parents. It's good you help out your parents, but as you've said, when they're gone, you have no resources left. YOU need to become your own resource, your own safe place. 

 

In order to do this, you could look into doing some part-time volunteer work after you're stable. There are always animals shelters, nursing homes, food banks, and other places looking for a volunteers to show up a couple of hours a week. This will build up a resume so you can eventually find a paying job. And you'll build up your confidence. One success will build on the previous success. There will be setbacks, but you'll learn and grow. And then you'll be able to handle anything life throws at you. It doesn't happen overnight - it's a process. But trust me on this, Zant, it's a very fulfilling process. I've been there. I've lived through this. It CAN have a really good ending. 

 

3. Stop catastrophizing.  Here are some threads on how to stop these negative thoughts and build some coping skills:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Neuro Emotions

 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

The hospital is not giving you these resources, but SA is. So you have what you need, no excuses. 

 

Zant, I have a lot of fear for your future if you continue to view the drugs and the hospital as your "safe place". For one thing, you are kindling your entire nervous system:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

At some point, your mind and body are going to collapse from the sheer weight of these drugs. If getting off these drugs is what you want, please read through your entire thread. Focus on your future - volunteer work, getting more education if you need (look into free or low-cost resources in your area), eating well and exercise as you are able. This could be your future, not the dark, dismal hospital-to-homeless-shelter future you wrote about. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

 

 

Being drugged into oblivion is the only solution that psychiatry can provide right now.  To relieve symptoms, they damage the brain with psychiatric drugs.  The root cause of all this is my forced drugging as a teenager on Prozac which led me to being switched on and off different medication combos to attempt to fix the PSSD that was caused.  I have all sorts of damaged neurotransmitter systems and the GABA system seems to be the most damaged.  The pharmacists should really spend time warning patients about side effects.  But if they did that, it would probably scare away the majority of the customers.  I live in a small town with multiple pharmacies and the one I go is always busy.  There are hundreds of prescriptions waiting to be picked up and I often wonder how much manufactured illness there is outside of psychiatry.  I will look at the CBT link and other resources.

 

I will just have to try once again and go off each medication one at a time at a extremely slower pace with a new withdrawal psychiatrist.  I no longer trust my psychiatrist who wanted to help me get off medications and will need to find a new one.  I need to learn how to fight my top enemies of anxiety and insomnia without medication.  I have not volunteered in person in a while.  I could try doing that again.  It's hard to connect with people in the real world because everyone still wants to get drunk and most of these are people just got married a year or two ago and now have just had their first child.  Then, there is always the awkwardness of why at my age I don't drink or have a girlfriend.  I can easily post about PSSD on forums but I don't tell my friends this.  I have no desire to get another B.S. degree, as I feel having one already is enough and the internet can provide me with more than enough things to learn about in my lifetime.  As for a job, I don't see any problems getting one if I am ever considered healthy enough to get off disability and get one again.  Eating healthy and exercising are also easy for me.  It's all going to come down to in the end if all of the new habits I have picked up over the coming years are powerful enough to get me the sleep needed per night to keep myself stable without any psychiatric drugs.  Thanks Shep.

[nz11]

 I'm sure it is apparent to everyone by now that insomnia is what defeats me quite easily whereas other withdrawal symptoms I can handle.

 

Are you saying you have been put on a 6 drug cocktail all because and only because you were experiencing insomnia.?

[Shep]

Being drugged into oblivion is the only solution that psychiatry can provide right now.  To relieve symptoms, they damage the brain with psychiatric drugs.  The root cause of all this is my forced drugging as a teenager on Prozac which led me to being switched on and off different medication combos to attempt to fix the PSSD that was caused.  I have all sorts of damaged neurotransmitter systems and the GABA system seems to be the most damaged.  

 

 

Ah, yes - "being drugged into oblivion is the only solution that psychiatry can provide right now."  This is very, very true. But why are you determined to run into the arms of psychiatry every time you hit a crisis? There are other options. 

 

Mindfulness has been a life saver for me. Other people explore CBT, neurofeedback, EMDR, yoga, etc. Insomnia has existed since life itself existed. Psychiatry is a form of structural violence at this point, doling out oblivion to the masses. 

 

I also have neurotransmitter damage, as do many of us here on the forum. The only fix to that is to get off the drugs and let the neurotransmitter damage heal over time. 

 

There's a book that explores other methods of healing. From your previous posts mentioning bullying in your past, you may be interested in reading it:

 

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

 

This book helped me understand why no form of therapy I'd tried before worked, but mindfulness, exercise, and playing music are working. And working quite well. It was written by an expert in trauma therapy who has been trying to get his ideas into the DSM but has been unsuccessful because his methods don't involve big pharma. But his methods work. 

 

 

 

 

I will just have to try once again and go off each medication one at a time at a extremely slower pace with a new withdrawal psychiatrist.  I no longer trust my psychiatrist who wanted to help me get off medications and will need to find a new one.  I need to learn how to fight my top enemies of anxiety and insomnia without medication.  I have not volunteered in person in a while.  I could try doing that again.  It's hard to connect with people in the real world because everyone still wants to get drunk and most of these are people just got married a year or two ago and now have just had their first child.  Then, there is always the awkwardness of why at my age I don't drink or have a girlfriend.  I can easily post about PSSD on forums but I don't tell my friends this.  I have no desire to get another B.S. degree, as I feel having one already is enough and the internet can provide me with more than enough things to learn about in my lifetime.  As for a job, I don't see any problems getting one if I am ever considered healthy enough to get off disability and get one again.  Eating healthy and exercising are also easy for me.  It's all going to come down to in the end if all of the new habits I have picked up over the coming years are powerful enough to get me the sleep needed per night to keep myself stable without any psychiatric drugs.  Thanks Shep.

 

 

Have you checked into local MeetUp groups? There are groups for people who are into hiking, computer coding, writing, reading, bowling. You name it, there's probably a MeetUp for it. So you can have a shared interest to talk about where people aren't meeting simply to "get drunk". I stopped drinking when I was 24 and I'm 48 now. As you get older, the bar scene is a distant memory (and one I never want to go back to - it's too empty). 

 

Don't let your inability to drink or the PSSD keep you from basic human contact. There's so much more to life, and experiences build on experiences if you don't limit yourself. 

 

I'm glad you already have a college degree. Considering how young you were drugged, it's great you were able to do this. Give yourself credit for doing this. But volunteer work will help you develop the "soft skills" needed for a paying job. You'll learn how to relate to other volunteers (just like co-workers) and how to manage stress. It also looks really good on your resume and it's something you can do on a limited, as-you-feel-able basis. 

 

Also, several of the jobs I've gotten over the years have actually been in the same places I was a volunteer. Non-profits tend to look at volunteers first when they look to hire.

 

Just a thought. And I hope these are the kinds of thoughts you'll start having instead of constantly thinking about your meds and the hospital. There truly is a much better world out there waiting for you, Zant.

 

Please keep us updated on your symptoms as you decrease your Zyprexa. Sending healing vibes your way. 

[Zant808]

 I'm sure it is apparent to everyone by now that insomnia is what defeats me quite easily whereas other withdrawal symptoms I can handle.

 

Are you saying you have been put on a 6 drug cocktail all because and only because you were experiencing insomnia.?

 

Kind of.  After the complete elimination of Depakote Sprinkles from my system, I thought I was doing great.  But after about 11 days then I had many days where I would get under 4 hours of sleep per night.  Then after multiple nights of 1 hour of sleep, I started having random crying spells, severe anxiety and suicidal ideation.  I thought to myself, if 3 mg of Klonopin isn't stopping this, then how am I supposed to go on without the Depakote?  I was unable to reach my withdrawal pdoc for advice and then I just gave up and went inpatient because I no longer felt safe.  Based on my psychiatric history, they thought that I wasn't sleeping because I was not medication compliant and the bipolar disorder was returning because there was no more Depakote in my system.  They used Zyprexa to treat what was thought to be acute mania and put me on 1250 mg of Depakote ER again as my mood stabilizer.  Fortunately, they didn't yank me off the 3 mg of Klonopin.  I was put into another hospital because I was not fixed in the 4 or 5 days I stayed in the first one.  In the second hospital, that is where I was placed on the other 3 medications.  I was put on quarterly watches where every 15 minutes a nurse would come into my room and shine a flashlight in my eyes and check if I was sleeping.  Once they established that I was sleeping through the whole night, behaved as they wanted me to and thought that I was no longer a threat to myself or others, I was released.

 

 

Being drugged into oblivion is the only solution that psychiatry can provide right now.  To relieve symptoms, they damage the brain with psychiatric drugs.  The root cause of all this is my forced drugging as a teenager on Prozac which led me to being switched on and off different medication combos to attempt to fix the PSSD that was caused.  I have all sorts of damaged neurotransmitter systems and the GABA system seems to be the most damaged.  

 

 

Ah, yes - "being drugged into oblivion is the only solution that psychiatry can provide right now."  This is very, very true. But why are you determined to run into the arms of psychiatry every time you hit a crisis? There are other options. 

 

Mindfulness has been a life saver for me. Other people explore CBT, neurofeedback, EMDR, yoga, etc. Insomnia has existed since life itself existed. Psychiatry is a form of structural violence at this point, doling out oblivion to the masses. 

 

I also have neurotransmitter damage, as do many of us here on the forum. The only fix to that is to get off the drugs and let the neurotransmitter damage heal over time. 

 

There's a book that explores other methods of healing. From your previous posts mentioning bullying in your past, you may be interested in reading it:

 

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

 

This book helped me understand why no form of therapy I'd tried before worked, but mindfulness, exercise, and playing music are working. And working quite well. It was written by an expert in trauma therapy who has been trying to get his ideas into the DSM but has been unsuccessful because his methods don't involve big pharma. But his methods work. 

 

 

 

 

I will just have to try once again and go off each medication one at a time at a extremely slower pace with a new withdrawal psychiatrist.  I no longer trust my psychiatrist who wanted to help me get off medications and will need to find a new one.  I need to learn how to fight my top enemies of anxiety and insomnia without medication.  I have not volunteered in person in a while.  I could try doing that again.  It's hard to connect with people in the real world because everyone still wants to get drunk and most of these are people just got married a year or two ago and now have just had their first child.  Then, there is always the awkwardness of why at my age I don't drink or have a girlfriend.  I can easily post about PSSD on forums but I don't tell my friends this.  I have no desire to get another B.S. degree, as I feel having one already is enough and the internet can provide me with more than enough things to learn about in my lifetime.  As for a job, I don't see any problems getting one if I am ever considered healthy enough to get off disability and get one again.  Eating healthy and exercising are also easy for me.  It's all going to come down to in the end if all of the new habits I have picked up over the coming years are powerful enough to get me the sleep needed per night to keep myself stable without any psychiatric drugs.  Thanks Shep.

 

 

Have you checked into local MeetUp groups? There are groups for people who are into hiking, computer coding, writing, reading, bowling. You name it, there's probably a MeetUp for it. So you can have a shared interest to talk about where people aren't meeting simply to "get drunk". I stopped drinking when I was 24 and I'm 48 now. As you get older, the bar scene is a distant memory (and one I never want to go back to - it's too empty). 

 

Don't let your inability to drink or the PSSD keep you from basic human contact. There's so much more to life, and experiences build on experiences if you don't limit yourself. 

 

I'm glad you already have a college degree. Considering how young you were drugged, it's great you were able to do this. Give yourself credit for doing this. But volunteer work will help you develop the "soft skills" needed for a paying job. You'll learn how to relate to other volunteers (just like co-workers) and how to manage stress. It also looks really good on your resume and it's something you can do on a limited, as-you-feel-able basis. 

 

Also, several of the jobs I've gotten over the years have actually been in the same places I was a volunteer. Non-profits tend to look at volunteers first when they look to hire.

 

Just a thought. And I hope these are the kinds of thoughts you'll start having instead of constantly thinking about your meds and the hospital. There truly is a much better world out there waiting for you, Zant.

 

Please keep us updated on your symptoms as you decrease your Zyprexa. Sending healing vibes your way. 

 

 

I ran to psychiatry because everything I was doing to become healthy such as taking supplements, avoiding alcohol and illegal drugs completely, slowly withdrawing from the Depakote using Depakote Sprinkles over a 9 month period when it is normally done in 2 to 4 weeks using the regular sized pills, exercising, eating properly which led to losing 45 pounds did not lead to the desired result of stabilizing on just the 3 mg of Klonopin.  I had almost two good weeks thinking everything was going to be fine and that I would be able to take on the Klonopin reduction next and then I became a complete basket case, crashed and wound up in the hospital.  I will get the book you mentioned and explore the therapies you mentioned.  I think yoga will be very beneficial as this was something they offered while inpatient.

 

I am part of MeetUp and will look at some local groups.  I do some friends that aren't married yet that know I am "mentally ill" and haven't tossed me aside yet, so we still do things together.  Like the majority of people, they still drink but they don't care if I do or not.  I think I got through college just because I had more resiliency when I was younger.  The effects of the medications were much stronger too.  So while I had more side effects, the CNS depressant effects were so high that I could recover/escape reality by sleeping anywhere at any time.  Now I don't feel the CNS depressant effects.  And I think that is the difference between the early druggings of the mid 90's through 2007 and the modern druggings of 2009 to 2016.  Something really changed in that July 2007 to April 2009 period being free of psychiatric medications.  Perhaps it was nothing but the alcohol consumption which started around July 2008.

 

For now, the Zyprexa withdrawal seems to be going fine.  I'm getting about 10 hours of sleep per day.

[Altostrata]

Zant, I think you can expect that every time you go into the hospital, you will end up on multiple drugs.

 

This is too bad, a little bit of Depakote alone might have resolved your issues.

 

I wish you well with minimizing your current cocktail.

[lanah]

Shep I find that link scary, that it can hardwire your brain for sensitivity, I like to think that stability would let you heal from this sensitivity. 

zant , I think you are still trusting the mainstream health system a bit, because you went a bit fast with your taper at the end, and also the insomnia is not uncommon after stopping meds. I think it's good that you are getting sleep now, I also needed my last hospitalisation to start questioning everything I was ever learned , and still I went and added trazodone to the mix before it really hit me that meds are not the answer. Big hug! You'll get there, don't give up. Just try to enjoy the sleep you are getting now. 

[Shep]

Shep I find that link scary, that it can hardwire your brain for sensitivity, I like to think that stability would let you heal from this sensitivity. 

 

 

 

Yes, it is scary, the entire concept of limbic kindling. But there are ways to fix some of the damage. That's one reason I do mindfulness meditations - it can help fix that.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/380-mindfulness-meditation-and-prayer-after-brain-injury/?p=4565

 

Lots of long term survivors of these drugs turn to mindfulness and come out of this much stronger than they went in. And there's scientific evidence that mindfulness can actually change the brain for the better, as that thread explores. 

 

So there is still a lot of hope. 

[Zant808]

Fortunately, I have made it off of Zyprexa completely before it could cause severe obesity and diabetes.  I am getting between 7 and 10 hours of sleep per day with the remaining 5 medications.

[Zant808]

This month has been very bad for me and it is all because of "life happens" stuff instead of the normal complaints I have about the mental health system.  My nervous system has been truly tested this month.  I will go into further detail about what happened in a later post and I will reply to previous posts as well.  I did not mean to be rude by not replying.

 

I would like to say though that one positive thing is that I am also off of Vistaril completely.  I have also crossed back over from Depakote ER to Depakote Sprinkles.  This was done in agreement with my latest pdoc who is not totally knowledgeable about withdrawal but agrees that both antipsychotics and benzodiazepines are dangerous.  Fortunately, I can still sleep up to 8 hours per night.  So now I am on 1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin, 25 mg Anafranil and 50 mg Trazodone.  I realize I will have to go much slower with the remaining medications.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do next?  Which medication should I suggest to my pdoc that we work on coming off next?

[scallywag]

Zant -- have a look at the interactions between your 3 medications. Sometimes the right place to start can be identified using that.

Drugs-dot-com Drugs Interactions Checker.

[Shep]

Hi, Zant.

 

You are very recently off Zyprexa, so you may need to hold for awhile, as your CNS has been through a lot recently.

 

According to the drug interaction checker, you do have major and moderate interactions - https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,702-355,918-9815,703-357

 

You two AD's (trazodone and anafranil) are in the "major" interaction category, and as Scally said, the interactions are a good starting place to decide which drug to taper next. 

 

With your history of coming on and off drugs, I really hope you're ready to start investing in learning non-drug coping skills to deal with the "life happens" stuff because life does continue to happen. There's no getting around that and if you're series about getting off these drugs for good, there aren't any short cuts. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. I hope life settles down soon for you and you can try this again once you're fully stable. 

[Zant808]

Zant, I think you can expect that every time you go into the hospital, you will end up on multiple drugs.

 

This is too bad, a little bit of Depakote alone might have resolved your issues.

 

I wish you well with minimizing your current cocktail.

 

Yes, I will have to do my best to avoid the psych hospital from here on out.  They have nothing left to offer me that isn't going to further harm me.  I did try the 5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles as an updose but it didn't seem to have much of an effect except for the first day.  Then things spiraled out of control.  When I left in the hospital about 2 months ago, I was on a 6 medication cocktail.  I am fortunate enough that I am back down to only 3 medications in such a short time.  Zyprexa, Vistaril and Trazadone were dropped in that order.  My pdoc is anti-benzo and wants to focus on getting me off Klonopin.  For some reason, the pdoc is telling me that 3 mg is way too much but 2 mg is the right amount.  After reading Stahl's latest psychopharmacology reference, he lists three ways to come off of benzos.  The third method is very similar to what is seen on the benzo sites with milk titration.  However, in this case it is a .01 mg reduction every 3 to 7 days by using fruit juice instead of milk.  I don't feel quite ready yet to come off any of the other three meds just yet.  I will definitely have to approach the Klonopin, Depakote Sprinkles and Anafranil very slowly over the coming years.

 

Shep I find that link scary, that it can hardwire your brain for sensitivity, I like to think that stability would let you heal from this sensitivity. 

 

zant , I think you are still trusting the mainstream health system a bit, because you went a bit fast with your taper at the end, and also the insomnia is not uncommon after stopping meds. I think it's good that you are getting sleep now, I also needed my last hospitalisation to start questioning everything I was ever learned , and still I went and added trazodone to the mix before it really hit me that meds are not the answer. Big hug! You'll get there, don't give up. Just try to enjoy the sleep you are getting now. 

 

I often wonder what would have happened if I would have at least extended the Depakote Sprinkles withdrawal throughout the summer.  The one year anniversary of me actually trying to reduce Depakote ER was earlier this month.  I am enjoying the sleep that I am getting now because I have no idea if in the 3 to 5 years of tapering left that I will be able to sleep properly.

 

 

Shep I find that link scary, that it can hardwire your brain for sensitivity, I like to think that stability would let you heal from this sensitivity. 

 

 

 

Yes, it is scary, the entire concept of limbic kindling. But there are ways to fix some of the damage. That's one reason I do mindfulness meditations - it can help fix that.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/380-mindfulness-meditation-and-prayer-after-brain-injury/?p=4565

 

Lots of long term survivors of these drugs turn to mindfulness and come out of this much stronger than they went in. And there's scientific evidence that mindfulness can actually change the brain for the better, as that thread explores. 

 

So there is still a lot of hope. 

 

 

The kindling effect is very scary for sure.  But now that I have to kind of just live life while slowly tapering over the next 3 to 5 years, I will have a lot of time to improve my overall health and explore mindfulness.

 

Zant -- have a look at the interactions between your 3 medications. Sometimes the right place to start can be identified using that.

 

Drugs-dot-com Drugs Interactions Checker.

 

The drug interaction checker is quite useful.  I wonder if pharmacists use that.  If they do, they really don't explain the side effects when you are at the consultation window.  Now that I'm on 3 medications instead of 6, the interactions have dropped quite a lot.  But they are still something to be concerned about.  Klonopin will be the next target because the Anafranil is giving me the ability to sleep an average of 7 hours per day now.  It turns out I was released from the state hospital in 2009 on twice the Anafranil dose I'm taking now plus Ambien CR.  My parents tell me that I complained that I was so groggy that I refused to drive because I thought I would fall asleep at the wheel.  I don't remember this, but I examined the hard copy medical records and the facts check out.

 

Hi, Zant.

 

You are very recently off Zyprexa, so you may need to hold for awhile, as your CNS has been through a lot recently.

 

According to the drug interaction checker, you do have major and moderate interactions - https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,702-355,918-9815,703-357

 

You two AD's (trazodone and anafranil) are in the "major" interaction category, and as Scally said, the interactions are a good starting place to decide which drug to taper next. 

 

With your history of coming on and off drugs, I really hope you're ready to start investing in learning non-drug coping skills to deal with the "life happens" stuff because life does continue to happen. There's no getting around that and if you're series about getting off these drugs for good, there aren't any short cuts. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. I hope life settles down soon for you and you can try this again once you're fully stable. 

 

Yes, too much has happened to rattle my nervous system.  I got assaulted by two drunken lunatics at a concert and had my forehead busted open.  I got covered in beer by these rude idiots (older white trash husband and wife) which made me very angry because I had no idea if I would have an allergic reaction with so much alcohol touching so much of my skin.  Luckily security threw them out and banned them from the venue for life because they were assaulting other people and finally they assaulted the venue security too.  I recorded plenty of video of the incident but I was upset that the venue would not release their names to me so I could press assault charges.  My main computer's SSD drive got logical and physical damage.  I was not able to repair the drive and had to ship out the computer to get repaired.  This set me back with work for quite a long time.  When I finally got the computer back the other day, they didn't follow instructions that I provided and wiped all the data off of the hard drive that had nothing wrong with it.  I'm trying to get things together from my backup drives now.  My stepfather's health has been quite bad lately.  My mother even had some sort of nightmare and fell out of the bed and hurt her lip badly, alone with her shoulder and knee.  If I wasn't awake at my usual odd hours, I wouldn't have heard this and she wouldn't have been able to get off the floor and her lip would have just keep bleeding all over the carpet.  Fortunately she did not break anything is ok now.  Then the next day, my uncle had to go to the hospital to get emergency appendix surgery.  I had no idea this was happening because my stepdad couldn't remember where my mom went.  Luckily he is ok as well.  I've noticed that when I go to the pdoc I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack when I'm just looking at other patients and especially when seeing the pdoc.  So it's just things like this that pile up and stress me out.  I don't anticipate reducing the Klonopin just yet.  Life happens.

[scallywag]

Zant - a challenging few weeks. You survived and seem to be doing reasonably well. Congratulations!

[Zant808]

Zant - a challenging few weeks. You survived and seem to be doing reasonably well. Congratulations!

 

The chaos seems to be settling down lately.  The worst thing that has happened is that I have to find another pdoc.  I got 14 hours of sleep today, so it seems like this Anafranil medication is actually doing something positive.  I just hope the sleep effects don't wear off any time soon.

[nz11]

zant i can see one thing is for sure in that there is never a boring moment in your life.

So glad you are now of 3 of the 6 drugs.

Why are you getting a new pdoc i thought you were very pleased with the one you had.

 

nz11

[Zant808]

zant i can see one thing is for sure in that there is never a boring moment in your life.

So glad you are now of 3 of the 6 drugs.

Why are you getting a new pdoc i thought you were very pleased with the one you had.

 

nz11

 

nz11,

 

Things were thankfully more boring for me tonight.  I was supposed to go to New York City tonight for a comedy show and a bomb went off in an area where I usually take the train or walk around above.  It's horrible what happened and it's all over CNN now.  The event I was supposed to go to sold out in the period of time I was sleeping yesterday, so that's why I never wound up going.

 

As for the pdoc, she kept rearranging appointment dates and times and flip-flopping on whether I needed to attend that day hospital.  I finally got a notice in the mail saying I needed to seek mental health services elsewhere.  I'll just have to start calling other places on Monday and hope they can get me in on an outpatient basis within 30 days and hope that whatever pdoc I got just keeps me on the same meds I am for now instead of making experimental changes.

[nz11]

Getting a letter from that pdoc like that seems unprofessional to me the least they could do if they wanted to avoid responsibility is to provide an alternative.

Glad you stayed safe and didnt go out afterall.

I just saw 'sully' movie and i enjoyed it very much.

[Zant808]

Getting a letter from that pdoc like that seems unprofessional to me the least they could do if they wanted to avoid responsibility is to provide an alternative.

Glad you stayed safe and didnt go out afterall.

I just saw 'sully' movie and i enjoyed it very much.

 

It's all a competition for clients in the end.  So, if I wasn't going to be part of their day hospital where they could charge my insurance multiple times per week, then they would rather give that space up to someone else.  But I don't think it is fair to have my insurance billed something like $500 a day to watch old VHS tapes, sit around and complain about problems with other people and not take any real action.  A lot of people have given quite a lot of praise to that movie Sully.  I haven't been out to the movies in a while but I will probably see it sometime this week just to get out of the house.

[Zant808]

You know what is really baffling?  Why the heck am I sleeping a lot more on only 3 sedating medications instead of the 6 I was on when I was released from the hospital?  Zyprexa, Vistaril and Trazadone are long gone from my system...

[Zant808]

I feel like I'm having a meltdown and I don't know why.  I felt horrible in the morning.  I had diarrhea, headache, sweating, chills, no appetite.  Then all of a sudden things got better and I was able to go out and enjoy myself.  Then upon my return to my home, I started to feel nervous.  I took all of my meds but it feels like nothing is relaxing me.  I don't know what is going on.  I haven't done any med switching, reducing or anything.  My entire nervous system feels like it is going to collapse.  I'm not sure what I can do.  I feel like I'm going to die.  I'm all alone here in the middle of the night/morning.  I don't want to run to the emergency room for help because I'll just go inpatient...  

[ChessieCat]

Hi Zant,

 

I was looking for Jan's "legs up the wall" and came across this post yoga-for-calming-very-simple-poses-can-help-greatly

 

Check out the links under this heading below the video:  More gentle yoga for the challenged nervous system

[Zant808]

Hi Zant,

 

I was looking for Jan's "legs up the wall" and came across this post yoga-for-calming-very-simple-poses-can-help-greatly

 

Check out the links under this heading below the video:  More gentle yoga for the challenged nervous system

 

Thank you ChessieCat!

[Zant808]

I wound up sleeping in my reclining chair.  I somehow wound up in my bed later on and didn't wake up until the evening.  I remember vivid nightmares.  When I woke up, I was hypomanic and very frightened.  It took several hours for the hypomania to settle down.  The smallest of things are too much for me to handle.  I wish I could just could pass away peacefully in my sleep.

[Shep]

Hi, Zant.

 

I'm sorry you're struggling so much, but your last post was very concerning. If you are feeling suicidal, please take a look at this thread and find the on-the-ground resources to handle such dark thoughts:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7619-for-those-who-are-feeling-desperate-or-suicidal/

 

As on online support group, we are not able to handle these kinds of feelings and we do want you to be safe.

 

Are there some distractions that help when you're feeling like this? Do you have a friend you could call?

 

The mood swings are very common. Actually, what you described - vivid nightmares after a nap - sounds like a "toxic nap".  This is also very common during withdrawal. And the fact that even the smallest things are getting to you are signs of stress intolerance. All very common. 

 

I hope you can find some healthy ways of handling these intense feelings. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. Please give an update and let us know you're safe. 

[scallywag]

Hey Zant, you've been through a challenging period with medications -- on, off, fast taper off, etc. Your CNS has been through a lot; it's no wonder you have vivid dreams and unusual-for-you emotions upon waking.

 

If it helps, remind yourself that this is all chemically induced "neuro-emotion."

[Zant808]

Hi, Zant.

 

I'm sorry you're struggling so much, but your last post was very concerning. If you are feeling suicidal, please take a look at this thread and find the on-the-ground resources to handle such dark thoughts:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7619-for-those-who-are-feeling-desperate-or-suicidal/

 

As on online support group, we are not able to handle these kinds of feelings and we do want you to be safe.

 

Are there some distractions that help when you're feeling like this? Do you have a friend you could call?

 

The mood swings are very common. Actually, what you described - vivid nightmares after a nap - sounds like a "toxic nap".  This is also very common during withdrawal. And the fact that even the smallest things are getting to you are signs of stress intolerance. All very common. 

 

I hope you can find some healthy ways of handling these intense feelings. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. Please give an update and let us know you're safe. 

 

I think I napped even more up until around 11:00 PM at night.  I feel a lot more calm now that nobody else is awake in the house and bothering me.  I took all of my meds much earlier than normal.  The suicidal thoughts have passed but now I wonder what I should do in terms of trying to sleep again.  I'm used to staying up until 8:00 AM and then I usually crash but with all of the toxic naps I got in today, I don't know if I'll be able to sleep.  I don't know if I should just try and stay awake all day and night until maybe 11:30 PM today and then take my meds and see if I can sleep again.  The news of rioting now is practically unavoidable because of the severity of it but it is certainly triggering.  I'll probably just work on websites to try and distract myself.

[Zant808]

Hey Zant, you've been through a challenging period with medications -- on, off, fast taper off, etc. Your CNS has been through a lot; it's no wonder you have vivid dreams and unusual-for-you emotions upon waking.

 

If it helps, remind yourself that this is all chemically induced "neuro-emotion."

 

Yeah, it's defiintely all chemical induced.  It just seems odd to me that the really weak PRN meds at such low doses, the Trazadone and Vistaril would have some sort of protracted withdrawal syndrome.  I would have expected symptoms like this a lot earlier from Zyprexa since it is a sedating antipsychotic.  It's very confusing to me.  I'm reading that Anafranil takes up to 12 weeks for it's full effects to kick in and I'm at around the 10 week mark since I started it in the hospital in early July.  I guess all I can do is just stay up and try to distract myself.