The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[Terry4949]

Damage from waves

 

Do you think that every time we have a severe wave it actually is causing more damage to the brain instead of healing I am currently 5 years and 5 months of all meds c/t and I have hit a wave so bad the worst depression I have ever felt plus many physical symptoms including terrible insomnia 

according to studies on the brain for every bout of depression you have it causes shrinking in certain areas which has been found on scans this is shown for medicated or non medicated people I know many people who have withdrawal don’t suffer the depressive symptoms many are just physical even those I know can be just as horrendous 

but for some like myself who seem to get hit with deep depression which is getting worse and seems to be more frequent in waves now can this be causing more irreversible damage for every wave 

I know the brain has a huge ability to heal as does the nervous symptom but I’m starting to fear that for every episode in a wave that my brain is being destroyed and that no matter how long I’m of the drugs that it will never be able to repair itself 

so called experts claim that for every bout of depression more of the brain dies 

I hope I have placed this in the right formate I’m just getting so worried no that I will never loose this feeling of depression I have tried everything recommended eat well sleep diet walking exercise meditation you name it but when these waves come I can hardly function this last one has been 4 weeks of unbearable suffering 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with existing topic

[Ariel]

@Terry4949

 

No.

This is just the wave talking, trying to convince you of all kinds of catastrophic bullsh*t. 

Don't buy into the fear-mongering lies that the wave is trying to sell. 

These worries and fears and ruminations are themselves symptoms of the wave. 

The wave is a symptom of WD. 

You're currently under the influence of WD-brain, going through a wave. 

You are not your thoughts.

The doomsday scenarios being generated in your mind are not true. 

You can't will the wave to go away but you can use some of these non-drug coping techniques to help manage your experience of the wave, so you don't get pulled under. 

 

 

[Ariel]

@Terry4949

 

ChessieCat has posted some very helpful, insightful comments in your thread. Have you seen these?

I suggest you read and re-read them attentively. This is very good advice. 

You are going through a wave, following these suggestions will help you get through. 

We can't control the wave itself but there are things we can do to help us manage while we're in it. 

 

On 7/18/2022 at 12:42 AM, ChessieCat said:

When we feel awful it is very easy to get stuck in the rut of only reporting the "bad stuff".  And this can become a habit.

 

It can be helpful to start including some of the "good stuff", however small.  It can help to get your focus off the internal and how bad you feel and start noticing more of the external.  I know for me sometimes the only good thing was that I managed to have a shower.  And wow, changing the sheets after 6-8 weeks, that was a big thing.  Or managing to get the grocery shopping done when my pantry was very empty, even if the groceries stayed in the bags on the kitchen floor for a while (except for the cold and frozen stuff).

 

Some members write a gratitude journal.  For some it is what they have managed to achieve.

 

Even though it feels like everything is bad, somewhere there will be a bit of good, but sometimes we need to make an effort to find it.  And sometimes it can be hard to find it but it's worth the effort because it can make a big difference to how we think and how we feel.  But it also takes time and practise and nobody can do it for you.

 

On 7/18/2022 at 7:34 AM, ChessieCat said:

Terry,

 

Please start posting about what different non drug coping skills you are trying and whether you think they might be helping in some way, however small.

 

Some examples of things that can help get your focus off yourself and your suffering:  I went outside and the sun felt warm, or I noticed that some birds were singing.  Or post about whether there are clouds in the sky or whether it is windy or still.  I'm in Australia and it is winter here.  Post about what the temperature is like where you are.  What about the garden, are the flowers blooming?

 

And also start posting about the what you have done or noticed that is not focused on how bad you are feeling.  For example, I had a shower and the cool/warm/hot water felt nice on my back.

 

It doesn't have to be major things.  Lots of little things add up.  Sometimes we have to make a concerted effort to notice them.

 

 

 

[Nypeaches89]

Hi everyone. I’m at 8 months ssri free (1 year Escitalopram - 1 year Trintellix), I still see no progress. I have had waves and windows, but right now I’m in the worst and longest wave. I’m considering starting taking SSRI again, it’s just too hard. Anyone went back here and felt relief? 

[AnnaAnimal]

1 hour ago, Nypeaches89 said:

Hi everyone. I’m at 8 months ssri free (1 year Escitalopram - 1 year Trintellix), I still see no progress. I have had waves and windows, but right now I’m in the worst and longest wave. I’m considering starting taking SSRI again, it’s just too hard. Anyone went back here and felt relief? 

 

Hi,

 

I was in really bad shape after quitting Sepram, my situation worsened a lot as the months went on. At the end, I had really trouble sleeping, my heart was racing like crazy all the time and I started to wake up in the middle of the night to panic attacks. After about 7 months I started to take escitalopram again. After only a few weeks I had gotten my life back completely. I don't know if I will dare to stop taking the drugs when, or ever again :(. 

[Nypeaches89]

10 minutes ago, AnnaAnimal said:

 

Hi,

 

I was in really bad shape after quitting Sepram, my situation worsened a lot as the months went on. At the end, I had really trouble sleeping, my heart was racing like crazy all the time and I started to wake up in the middle of the night to panic attacks. After about 7 months I started to take escitalopram again. After only a few weeks I had gotten my life back completely. I don't know if I will dare to stop taking the drugs when, or ever again :(. 

I’m somewhat relieved it worked for you 7 months after being off. My concern was my body would simply refuse the ssri so kind of “good” to know it can be accepted by the body again.  Even though it is hell to know we depend of these pills now. 
I only stayed 2 years on them I can’t believe I’m still not over it. These drugs destroyed me. 

[Nypeaches89]

14 minutes ago, rebeccaannxo said:

I’m at 9.5 months after a severe adverse reaction. My waves are getting way worse and closer together.. I thought they were supposed to get better as time goes on? 😩

Interesting update: I’ve since my last post been eating probiotics and I feel so good right now. Kefir, kombucha, yoghurt. Maybe it’s just a window, maybe waves will still happen but right now I feel healed. So yep, probiotics! 

[Terry4949]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:32 AM, AnnaAnimal said:

 

Hi,

 

I was in really bad shape after quitting Sepram, my situation worsened a lot as the months went on. At the end, I had really trouble sleeping, my heart was racing like crazy all the time and I started to wake up in the middle of the night to panic attacks. After about 7 months I started to take escitalopram again. After only a few weeks I had gotten my life back completely. I don't know if I will dare to stop taking the drugs when, or ever again :(. 

So you reinstated another drug and was able to stabilise on it or had you all ready been on escitalopram after 7 months off the meds 

[Nypeaches89]

Hello, me again.  I have noticed a change in my withdrawal symptoms lately, it’s morphing into new forms of hell. I had the classic waves of intense anxiety and windows. Now I have waves of depression, triggered by hormonal changes (pmdd) and indeed insomnia. Which then morphed into a moderate akathesia. I haven’t had anxiety waves in a while, just these weird depressive phases morphing into akathesia + horrible insomnia. Has anyone experienced this? I’m so disappointed since I thought the windows would get longer, and the waves shorter, but no, I’m having new issues and I don’t see any pattern of waves and windows at all anymore. 

[Kat66]

@Nypeaches89 where are you at with your taper? I noticed things started to get worse the lower the dose. I'm just over a year into WD. I recognise your symptom pattern. You're not alone xx

[Nypeaches89]

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

@Nypeaches89 where are you at with your taper? I noticed things started to get worse the lower the dose. I'm just over a year into WD. I recognise your symptom pattern. You're not alone xx

I’m off ssri since October 2021… I had a quick one week taper. Akathesia the first months when I quit but then just anxiety. Now back with a lot of akathesia.. 

[Kat66]

21 hours ago, Nypeaches89 said:

I’m off ssri since October 2021… I had a quick one week taper. Akathesia the first months when I quit but then just anxiety. Now back with a lot of akathesia.. 

have you spoken to the mods about a low dose reinstatement? 

[Nypeaches89]

Hi everyone! 
so I’m at my 10th month off. I’m doing better, I haven’t had an anxiety wave in a while. But ! I have new symptoms: insomnia and (subsequent?) depression. I’m really scared and worried, maybe it’s not withdrawal and I’m just doing worse ? I did have bouts of insomnia in summer in the past. But right now it seems to be a quite intense insomnia. And the depression is a bit weird too. I just wonder if it happened to other people here to develop new symptoms at 10 months off??? 

[brassmonkey]

It's more than likely a variation of the "late breaking wave" which can frequently happen around ten months off. Usually, it is intense anxiety, but there is no reason it couldn't be insomnia and depression. Late breaking waves hit hard and fast and usually last two to three weeks. It is a fairly common part or ADWD.

[Knopfloch]

Does anyone experience anything waves that seem worse over time and windows that seem better? In other words, both seem to be getting more extreme. I also experience a window usually right after a progressively worsening wave that feels like maybe the worst I’ve ever felt. And then it just starts to turn until I’m in a window. Does anyone else get this?

[persistente]

How common is after more than 5 years of being in wd and AD free to still have strong wave of depression?

 

My wave of wd depression was always around 7 days long. Now I feel it all the time for a month already. I wonder Is this a wave? 

[Antecedent]

Can you have an onset of WD symptoms after 3-4 months? After stopping Paxil I've been feeling progressively worse, but I had relatively good days. But after short-term benzos course, I am a wreck. Some symptoms feel like a relapse (complete loss of appetite, nausea and fatigue), and some are new (bouts of fear, dizziness, palpitations, something like derealization, sensitivity to stimuli). My symptoms also seem to correspond to circadian rhythms, I feel awful in the morning and in the evening. But I can somewhat function during the day, is it common in WD? 

[BrokenWings]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:39 AM, persistente said:

How common is after more than 5 years of being in wd and AD free to still have strong wave of depression?

 

My wave of wd depression was always around 7 days long. Now I feel it all the time for a month already. I wonder Is this a wave? 

 

@persistente This is a great question. I am on a similar timeline and would love to hear from others that have recovered in regards to this.

 

I just had a bad wave and I am approaching 5 years since I stopped Zoloft. I am also wondering if this is still withdrawal with waves and windows.

[Phoenixmama]

@Junglechicken hi I’m 21 months out from a adverse reaction and at the beginning of 20th month I had a Pap smear that included a cancer screening biopsy 😖 that hurt and Was so uncomfortable I never had one and probably never will again any who after I entered a wave with acute wd symptoms and it’s almost been one month with them head aches , nausea, loose stools , waking pain every other hour when sleep, feeling out of it and like I’m losing my memory or something , just straight very early wd symptoms… I came across your post and see you had something similar after having a Pap but o don’t think mines was from a trigger or was it ? Anyways I hope all is well with you , I’d love some feed back on this 

[Jilla]

On 3/23/2011 at 6:45 AM, Altostrata said:

I've experienced the waves, or lurches. I've noticed the converse -- I'll have a window when I feel better, then a trough, which feels just as bad as ever, except a little different.

 

Over time, the windows have gotten more frequent and longer, and the troughs not as deep and shorter. So, on the average, I've gotten slowly better.

 

Kind of like 1 step forward and 5 steps back, then 2 steps forward and 5 steps back, then 3 steps forward and 4 steps back, then 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, then 3 steps forward and 3 steps back....uh, where was I?

 

 

I should talk, because after 3 years of lurching forward, I took a giant lurch down -- too much stress at a critical time. But since then, it's been the same slow, lurching slog forward.

 

[Jilla]

I’m so very grateful for this sight. My windows had been getting longer and my waves less intense. But this past week or so the waves have come back full steam ahead. My waves are more emotional than physical, where I just want to scream or cry, or both at the same time….truly debilitating and scary. But at these times I know I can turn to this sight for information, encouragement and hope. You have truly been a blessing and please know that God is using you in a mighty way.

[Tulip52]

On 3/22/2011 at 8:20 PM, Healing said:

ADMIN NOTE: 

 

SEE ALSO:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

npanth blog on Waves and Windows in SSRI Withdrawal

 

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Topic Summary by KarenB June 11, 2017:

 

Windows and waves occur in a stair-step pattern, with a general upwards trend.

 

                                        After a year, a little better.

Awful

 

Alto:  I've experienced waves. I'll have a window when I feel better, then a wave, which feels as bad as ever, except a little different. Over time, the windows have gotten more frequent and longer and the troughs not as deep, and shorter. So, on average, I've gotten slowly better. Kind of like 1 step forward and 5 steps back, then 2 steps forward and 5 steps back, then 3 steps forward and 4 steps back, then 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, then 3 steps forward and 3 steps back....uh, where was I?

 

Waves mean your nervous system is struggling to heal. It moves in the right direction for a bit then falls back a bit. This is normal. You can view the "better" part of the wave as when your nervous system is finding its balance. These periods will get longer and more frequent as time goes on.

 

Rather than damaged receptors, I've found it more accurate to visualize post-acute withdrawal syndrome as autonomic dysregulation. The effects are generalized and when the nervous system is under stress, symptoms can reappear -- and go away again, as is common with autonomic issues.

 

Our nervous systems are so complicated they repair themselves in patches. Some parts recover then the whole thing needs to re-balance again. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

The windows are part of the pattern of healing. They are when your autonomic (and other) systems are working in harmony.

 

Withdrawal Cycles vs Other Cycles
Alto:  There are regular biological cycles, daily, monthly, seasonally etc, and there are the waves from withdrawal syndrome. Withdrawal syndrome can exacerbate some normal cycles, e.g. early morning cortisol, menstrual symptoms, or seasonal sadness. Waves from withdrawal syndrome can also come out of the blue and have no apparent relationship to any other biological pattern.

 

Fast Tapering and Waves
Alto: If you are tapering too fast and get withdrawal symptoms, they may fluctuate in a windows and waves pattern. This leads a lot of people to ignore the warning signs of going too fast. If you continue to taper, withdrawal symptoms probably will get worse. It's the nature of withdrawal symptoms to fluctuate, because the nervous system is trying to correct itself.

It's important to treat yourself gently. You may not be able to handle difficult situations that you've always handled before. Focus on stress reduction. Learning how to protect your nervous system from abrasive people is a good skill and will serve you well in the long run. Being pushed to take care of ourselves is, I guess you could say, one of the benefits of this awful condition.

 

The Importance of Flowing with the Waves

JanCarol:  There was a DIRECT CORRELATION between how hard I worked during my window / hypo-mania, and HOW LONG and DEEP my ensuing depression was.  If I got to washing the dog and mowing the lawn, it might be 3 weeks or more before I'd see the light of day.  This is a cautionary tale:  when in a window, learn to relax and flow.  Don't push.  I know, things aren't getting done, and you are tired of it - but if you push too hard, the wave will crash deeper.  See entire post - Flow with the Waves

 

Video
Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery

 

Members' Theories on what Windows and Waves are all about
Healing:  I have heard of people having long-lasting setbacks even very far out. It's extremely upsetting. In some cases, it seems like the setback is triggered by stressful life events. My theory is that, even after we have healed a lot, we are still very fragile for a time after that. If life happens to be fairly smooth, we can function pretty well, but if life hands us a big stressor or two, we become really autonomically dysregulated. We're still more sensitive to conditions than we will be when we have healed further.

Eventually.....eventually.....we heal even more, become more robust, and stressful life events can no longer knock our nervous systems off balance so easily.

 

Jemima:  Because antidepressants change brain functioning by destroying serotonin receptors, recovery goes in fits and starts as these receptors regenerate. (From what I've read, this is my understanding of what getting back to health after withdrawal is all about.)

 

Starlitegirlx I have a theory that it's a healing process where our body is adapting and adjusting to not having the meds.  Pain or hellish days come into play, then we feel better for a bit until our body finds a new way to heal and recover which triggers the pain/suffering cycle again.

 

The body knows how to heal from just about anything, but often we interfere or things interfere with it (like stress, other meds or other health issues that compound one another). I like the idea of trusting in my body and believing it knows how to find its way back to its wellness.

Bad days are awful but if they mean my body is going through some kind of adaption as it heals, I feel they are worth enduring. Like when you are tired and just want to go home but traffic and bad weather slow you down and frustrate you.  Those things pass and you will get home eventually. So accepting the traffic/ bad weather as par for the course makes the journey home easier on you emotionally. It’s a simple analogy but it holds the truth of what is happening – there are storms and delays when we just want to be home (well again).

 

Recoveries are rarely as smooth and linear as we would like. I think it has to do with how the body has to adapt to a new status quo. Any healing is change which brings about a new status quo. So maybe this new status quo throws the workings of our systems off balance - and that's why we have waves. The body is saying 'wait, this is different than it was. Adjust! Adjust! Then as it adjusts we have the suffering we call waves. Those adjustments are probably system stressors, and we all know how sensitive we are to stressors.

 

I think it's why windows get longer as we progress and have healed more.  The adjustments we need to make are less because we are closing in on our original normal so the healing isn't as dramatic.  Like how a cut stings, then the scab forms and it hurts and tends to itch. That's a healing cycle. At the end, the itch is minor - like how some people who are further into recovery have less dramatic and shorter wanes.

 

A clear description of the healing pattern

 

---

ADMIN NOTE Original post:

 

In other words, when you go through a period of symptoms getting worse, and then that draws to an end, is it followed pretty obviously by a period of new gains? Are you now better than you were before the wave?

 

People have reported this pattern. I have never been able to discern it clearly in myself, but I'm open to the possibility. What is your experience of this yourself? Or observation of others? Or opinion?

 

I really needed to read this now. Great reminder to float and ride the wave and not push.

[GGGG]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:35 PM, thecowisback said:

like you nena i was on prozac for 20 years. i tapered too quickly and had 2years with very few windows. i went back on a low dose of prozac a year ago but things are still rough. 

i hope you start to see some light at the end of your tunnel soon xxx

How are you doing?

[Jakeblack14]

Hello everyone, 

 

I am trying to fish for some information as to if anyone finds that some waves come and are really light and some come and are almost unbearable. 

Wondering if anyone has seen a pattern in tapering Lexapro and if they seem to have heavy waves hit even later down the road in the tapering process. 

I personally have been holding at 5mg for the past month or so and in that time span I have had 3 waves. The first lasted about 1 week and was really intense. (unable to eat, sleep, anxiousness, almost bed ridden). The second lasted about 3 days and was really uncomfortable. (Hard to eat, little bits of insomnia, stomach issues). The last and most recent I am still in and it has been about 4 days of the intense version. 

 

Any insights or patterns or general advise would be wonderful. 

 

Thanks

[Gridley]

52 minutes ago, Jakeblack14 said:

Wondering if anyone has seen a pattern in tapering Lexapro

When I was tapering Lexapro, I had light waves and pretty bad ones with no discernible pattern.  I think that's pretty much par for the course.

 

One thing I would suggest once you stabilize--which may take a while; don't rush it--and are ready to taper down from 5mg is that it would be better if you did a percentage taper rather than the straight linear 2mg taper you've been doing.  With a linear taper, the percentage you're tapering compared to your dose gets larger and larger as you go lower, which makes withdrawal rougher.  Wit a percentage taper, the percentage you're tapering gets smaller and smaller vis a vis your dosage.  This is easier on your system.  This is especially important at the low doses of a drug as potent as Lexapro.

 

Best of luck and congratulations on getting down to 5mg.

[Onmyway]

@Jakeblack14, I have merged the new topic you created here. Before creating new topics, can you pls do a search and see that one does not already exist? We like to keep topics together so as to make it easy for everyone to find information. 
OMW

[blopenshtop]

This is less of a question and more of a place for conversation and sharing experiences. 

 

This site has helped me understand and apply words to things Ive been experiencing. One of those things is 'waves and windows'.

 

Something that has confused me for a while is how my issues manifest when coming off SSRIs. In the past my depression would come in episodes that would last a couple weeks, be gone for a month or so, and rince and repeat. Ever since starting meds really, but specifically since starting SSRIs in June last year, they've really complicated that pattern. But it's still been very pattern based. When under the effects of SSRIs, I'm consistently anhedonic. And when off of an SSRI, like nov/feb while switching from lexapro to prozac, or in the last couple months I've been off prozac, it's quite up and down, compared to a long up and semi-long down like my depression manifests on its own. I wouldn't put myself in the category of manic whatsoever, or emotionally unstable (partially because the anhedonia is always there) but I'll have moments where I'm feeling almost normal, at least it feels like it compared to my depression, and the next day very depressed. 

 

So the main reason I'm making this post is, I've noticed these waves and windows have a distinct pattern of their own. At the start after quitting prozac, and I remember it being like this in the med switch last year (it was better then though), it would be 2 days of feeling very depressed (my withdrawals have always been like my original issues of depression/anxiety rather than physical), and 1 and a half or 2 days of feeling a bit better. Very consistent to the point I could look at my week and think "great, these two days I have to do X will be waves". It usually shifts, for example right now the pattern is each day is bad but the night times are a bit better. My windows still aren't great, but they're some relief. In terms of quality of life, it still feels like the negatives outweigh the positives, with also how crushing the waves are to windows, but I'm grateful I can have some relief fairly regularly. I don't think I could cope like the people who deal with long periods with no windows. 

 

So yeah, it's just interesting how consistent and pattern based waves and windows are. Before finding out this is how withdrawal usually manifests, I'd constantly question if it was a conditions based thing. Like if the good would always follow the bad because my standards of 'good' would lower; and the bad would follow the good because I'd become more sensitive to 'bad'. Questioning what it means and ruminating over expectations drive me mad. 

 

So yeah, curious what members of this site have to say about the patterns of waves and windows. 

[HugHK]

Hi guys, 

 

So I was doing a lot better at the end of last year, I thought I was getting close to get back to normal in December 2022. My anxiety had totally gone, I was only left with some Paresthisia in my brain. 

 

But in reality this year the waves keep on coming. I had a wave of air hunger in January-March, my Paresthisia in my brain was replaced by Paresthisia in my foot which is also annoying as it makes it impossible to relax (this happened in March)... More recently, as things had improved (shortness of breath is gone), I was starting to pick up an exercise routine (swimming a bit, a bit of strength exercises. Was going fine for a week until Friday last week, woke up in the morning with clammy hands, some vertigo, and general anxiety /uneasiness... I hadn't had this symptom this bad since the fall of 2021 I think, which is super weird because when I had been doing better in the spring of 2022, I was able to exercise full steam ahead with no anxiety flareup. 

 

My question is, for people who were doing better and pushed themselves a bit too much with exercise routine or something else (stress for eg etc), how long did things take before they improved? is this going to be another one of those 6-12 months belters or more like a few weeks before suddenly going back to normal?

[conkaia]

@HugHK I’ll be interested to see any replies on this. I was doing fine for months and am back in a wave due to being triggered by work stress. I’m scared!

[RachelSusan]

@HugHK In answer to your question. I have had both long and very short waves. For the most part my waves have been short lived.  Days sometimes, occasionally a week or so.  I did however have one wave that knocked me down and dragged me into an undertow, so to speak. That one was bad, lasting about six weeks with the symptoms being brutal. I hadn't made any changes to my dose, no tapering leading up to that. What was different was that I had a change of other medications not related to anything we do here.

 

As for stress causing a wave, yes indeed it has for me.  Both emotional stress and physical stress has caused problems for me. Physical can be getting too tired, doing to much, and even exercising too much. I exercise consistently but don't overdue it.  I found it best for me to work up to a certain routine. Emotional stress can be anything, work, relationships, other people's problems and so on. I always try and keep things calm in my world.  I also don't make any important decisions in the middle of a wave or withdrawal.  I feel we have to protect ourselves against as much stress as possible while we are healing.

 

@conkaia Absolutely work stress can impact us. Even if we aren't going through withdrawal it can cause problem, but during withdrawal it can be brutal. It doesn't mean that this wave will last a long time though.  If you can find something that relaxes you and do more of it during this period if would be most helpful.

 

I want to recap. These waves, at least for me, most of the time were short lived.  If you let the fear wind you up too much the fear then serves as an additional stress. Try to find something that you like to help you relax. Hopefully you will be back to where you were in no time.

[conkaia]

On 5/8/2023 at 5:54 PM, RachelSusan said:

@conkaia Absolutely work stress can impact us. Even if we aren't going through withdrawal it can cause problem, but during withdrawal it can be brutal. It doesn't mean that this wave will last a long time though.  If you can find something that relaxes you and do more of it during this period if would be most helpful.

 

I want to recap. These waves, at least for me, most of the time were short lived.  If you let the fear wind you up too much the fear then serves as an additional stress. Try to find something that you like to help you relax. Hopefully you will be back to where you were in no time.

@RachelSusan thanks so much for taking the time to reply.  I feel slightly better in knowing that this is common.  But setbacks seem to hit sooo much harder when I've been doing well for a while!  

[RachelSusan]

2 hours ago, conkaia said:

But setbacks seem to hit sooo much harder when I've been doing well for a while!

This is the absolute truth.  For me too. I often wondered if they are actually hitting harder or if it just feels like they are hitting harder because we had been feeling better. Then of course there is that added disappointment and fear thrown in. It is a complicated question which I have never been able to answer, I just know it feels really bad.

[HugHK]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, Ariel said:

@Terry4949

 

No.

This is just the wave talking, trying to convince you of all kinds of catastrophic bullsh*t. 

Don't buy into the fear-mongering lies that the wave is trying to sell. 

These worries and fears and ruminations are themselves symptoms of the wave. 

The wave is a symptom of WD. 

You're currently under the influence of WD-brain, going through a wave. 

You are not your thoughts.

The doomsday scenarios being generated in your mind are not true. 

You can't will the wave to go away but you can use some of these non-drug coping techniques to help manage your experience of the wave, so you don't get pulled under. 

 

 

 

I think this post doesn't really answer the original question though.

 

The original question seemed to be about: does the worsening of symptoms in a wave  / the setback it represents translate into a step back in the actual healing process or not.

 

to explain with an example: In a hypothetical scenario where my brain was 68% healed before the onset of the wave, does a new wave triggered by work stress / exercising /drinking etc mean the percentage of healing drops back below 68%, or does is it just discomfort associated to the 32% of unhealed brain.

 

Some seem to think waves / discomfort is linked to the brain trying to heal itself. That sort of makes sense to me, but then if that is the case, I think there are two possibilities:

 

• Either a wave triggered by something is the remainder of the unhealed part of the brain struggling to heal itself, in which case it probably would have happened anyway. 
• Or, it is indeed a setback in the healing process (one part of the brain that was fine breaks down again, and the healing of other parts may have to stop to heal this new broken part again), and it would not have happened without the trigger. 

 

I do not think there is a unique answer to this, I think it depends on the case and / or the person. In my recent experience, I would suspect option 2. If I hadn't exercised a week ago or so (and kept to my mild exercise routine for the next 6-12 months), I would likely have avoided totally the setback and got back to being totally healed on a faster timeline than I will now. I will never know, but that is my gut feel: I had something that had been fixed for a very long time and that had not caused issues for many months that is now causing my worst issues, while my usual symptoms have been muted as my brain focuses on healing something else. the usual symptoms will likely resurface when things are better.

[sandnit]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:19 PM, RachelSusan said:

This is the absolute truth.  For me too. I often wondered if they are actually hitting harder or if it just feels like they are hitting harder because we had been feeling better. Then of course there is that added disappointment and fear thrown in. It is a complicated question which I have never been able to answer, I just know it feels really bad.

@RachelSusan, I acknowledge this completely. I felt good and stable for the last 2 months. I was thinking to start my taper again after a hold on 5mg lexapro since last October. I tapered way to fast from 20mg before that. I

 accidentally had some alcohol.....I thought I was drinking a non alcoholic beer.... This threw me back into a fierce wave. I almost forgot how bad it felt but it feels as bad as ever although it feels different from the last wave. Now it is hard to imagine this wave is going to end . It has been almost 2 weeks since it started and Im trying to stay positive it will end and not let fear rule me but every time it is so hard to think that way during a wave. 

 

I hope this wave will end soon and everything stabilises so I can start my tapering process.... This time I will use the 10%method:)

 

When did you know / decide to taper ? Did you still have waves and windows and where they also precent during the tapering process?

 

 

[ElaineM]

Would it be helpful to go back on meds and then come off wayyyy slower than I did the first time! I know some people stick it out and endure symptoms but I am struggling with bad insomnia and I’m a mom of a 1 year old and a baby on the way. I can survive in this state.

[Leonardo]

I just want to vent to you guys.
I'm in a terrible wave, crying uncontrollably.
To make matters worse, my parents basically told me indirectly that I'm a loser, that I give up on every challenge that life throws at me. Their actions show that they don't trust me. They treat me like a child.

I just want this wave to pass.

I want to send a big hug to all of you, you are on my mind every day helping me get through this. You are incredible. Please keep it up. It's a miracle that this kind of community exists. I love you