btdt: introducing myself

[Muddles]

I wonder what this is btdt? I hope it passes whatever it is. It's mind boggling this withdrawal!

[Meimeiquest]

Oh, b, I am sorry for all this! It does sound like your fluoroquinolone therapy may have added a new layer, and you were probably quite vulnerable with all the other pain you have endured.

 

For your research, the people harmed by that class of drugs are called "floxies." You probably read of my nephew's adventures, although they turned out to be from prednisone.

 

What is your "gut regimen"? It has to be a mess after all this.

 

Wishing peace back to you!

[btdt]

I have been having odd symptoms or warning signs of something a long time.  Seems I go along a while never really running but not in bed either.. then stuff pops up out of nowhere then down blah blah blah it has been going on for years ...some reactions some who knows what just crap. 

I am trying to stick with one doc now that I have one and see if at some point it adds up so something ... in the doctors opinion. Leaving it there for now. 

Diet is not as good as it could be but not terrible ...depends on the day energy level and what is in the house to eat.

[UnfoldingSky]

As for myself today. 

Lately I have noticed I am making a lot of mistakes and not getting things right ... not noticing right away all the time. I also have to sleep part of each day as i become extremely fatigued so much so it feel almost like I am going to pass out rather than lay down for awhile.  Even when I really want to be up doing things I can't manage it other than one day this wk when i did stay up  the entire day. 

 

Today when the extreme fatigue hit me I refused to lay down I forced myself to stay upright and fight back... so I sat where I am sitting now and waited it out.  I started to not see very well I could not focus my eyes I sat through it... I was trying to type something and kept going my eyes sight zoned out then back in but i don't need to see to type... so I kept going... when it was done and I could see again it was obvious that even tho I can type i can not type anything that makes any sense when I can't see... so it was more than just my eyes it was my brain was not thinking properly.  

 

It likely lasted less than 5 minutes but seemed a bit long as bizarre things do.  I am not sure what it was but noted it started with the same severe fatigue I have been having for days now... maybe months. 

 

I was surprised to find the tiredness passed in a relatively short time if I had laid down rather than fight it off I would have been asleep an hour at least maybe more... these naps are becoming a big part of my day and keep me from doing things. 

 

I have had vision things in the past and generally always think vision issues are related to migraine maybe stroke but more likely migraine... I have both ..stroke was only small due to birth control pills years ago... it is the fatigue that goes with it that has me thinking something else may be going on.  

 

Ya me and my health events seems I have plenty of them I can think of some psych labels to go with that and I am not interested in hearing them... just in case anyone was thinking that.  

peace all

 

btdt I had a day a while back where I was on the computer when all of a sudden things went "weird" (like an altered state) and then I coudn't see.  I developed a huge "floater" in my vision and it started to expand.  With what little  vision I had left I started frantically googling things I thought it might be, I was worried it was a detached retina.  I thought maybe a migraine otherwise, though like you I was also concerned it could be a stroke.

 

Of course that had to happen on a Sun. night when no one else was awake to drive me if I needed them and when I'd be forced to go to hospital, the very last place i want to be, just going there without a health problem will now give me a panic attack.  Eventually I decided it'd better be a migraine as I just wasn't going anywhere. 

 

That is what it turned out to be.  I had never had one before.

 

I know I am being a hypocrite by saying this although I would have gone to my GP then had it been an option late at night, but please do tell your doctor if you haven't already, just to be sure whatever it is it's not something really serious.  I would hope they aren't going to put that down as a psych problem!  And I hope it clears up.

 

US

[btdt]

I have had a lot of eye things.. from migraines to drug reactions where one eye would not open and the other would not close ... took three months to walk straight after that one .. lidocain at the dentist.  I had halos around light and streamers and walked always to one side had to keep getting back on the side walk... had a lot of things.

I wonder if pharma goons who read this site are taking bets on how I go out.  

 

I will tell her not sure it will mean much as I always have something. 

[WiggleIt]

Btdt, I'm such a newbie that I've got no advice on this, except to say that I know I've read about this in other people's threads who have said they've gotten over it... just like Sky said.

[btdt]

I try not to get too excited about a lot of it at this point... sometimes now doctors say to me why did you not go to the emergency department... like when the cyst last month caused breathing issue.. should have had an ultra sound according to one big shot I see at a bit hosp... but whatever... he is clueless to this wd stuff not what I see him for so I don't mention it.  

 

I hate going to emerg and I have been a couple of times with head and eye stuff... the reaction at the dentist was another time doctors said why did I not go ... I did end up there the next day as I had a scheduled eye test ... that doc said things were wonky sent me to my gp who said I was leaning and my eyes did not respond to light right she sent me to emerg... had a ct scan on my brain that day and went home but it took the entire day and I did not walk a straight line for few months .. emerg sent me to an ophthalmologist who said my eyes are ok then on to a neurologist back to him again.. all this took a year I was waling in 3 months I could see straight... on and on it goes BY THE TIME I GET TO SEE WHOEVER IT IS THAT SHOULD KNOW I AM BETTER AS IT TAKES SO LONG

 

This happens over and over .. I am not sure better is the right word as each time something like this happens I lose something... eyesight ...balance .. core strength... I don't bounce back as well.  

 

I have yet to hit the major ones that would actually permanently put me down is something up yes something has been up for a long time do they find what it is nope they never do.  Is it withdrawal... maybe.. this far out I am really starting to wonder.

 

I just don't like it is all I do keep thinking one day this will all add up to something but so far it hasn't so maybe it is just how protracted withdrawal goes it is hard to say as there are not many people posting on here that are as far out as I am and still having issues.  There have been some who pm me and yes they have some of the same issues I have but not all so we are all different just like we keep hearing over and over.

 

I try to keep my hard won peace but some days are worse than others.

peace  

[WiggleIt]

Wow... Really accurate point about how long it takes to see the docs

 

I don't even know WHY I still want to see them. So many have sucked. For me, at this point, it's mainly to get tests to make sure I'm not dying. Is that weird? I go to the docs, confirm I'm not dying, then come home. Sheesh.

[btdt]

Wow... Really accurate point about how long it takes to see the docs

 

I don't even know WHY I still want to see them. So many have sucked. For me, at this point, it's mainly to get tests to make sure I'm not dying. Is that weird? I go to the docs, confirm I'm not dying, then come home. Sheesh.

LOL actually no.. that is not weird to me not at all. It is actually right on point.  Early on I was sure I was dying and they just had not found what would be on the death certificate yet.  So I was waiting for them to catch up ... I told my friend one day they will tell me and I will have a month left I so expected this to be a life or death problem I had never been so sick for so long in my life... and for them to not be able to find a cause... well it left me with those thoughts and waiting... that thought process started in pooped out.. a couple of years before I actually quit Effexor cold turkey but ct was the clincher.  

 

By the time I found out about withdrawal months into this process I had been sick a few years 2-3 by then.. and did not know what was causing it. 

 

There are some other things that will get me to the doc or emerge ... can't breath too much pain can't see eyes that won't open or won't close... scary neurological symptoms resembling stroke...  passing out explosive head aches not touched by strong migraine pills.. body parts falling from places the should be... lumps bumps growing where they should not be... 

 

It is scary to see doctors that only have other drugs to treat us when we know most drugs are going cause a reaction and more symptoms... figuring out what these drugs are likely to be is an important thing to do I think.  

 

I am trying to start a discussion here about it today

[btdt]

Kitty was back in hosp home today she has to stop eating things like string and cloth... odd cat.  I hear she is high on ketamine just now.  poor thing... wonder if she will have brain damage from ketamine... guess we will wait and see. 

peace all 

[btdt]

Been busy but not quit up to par not sick either hope my friends here are doing well.

peace

[btdt]

things I have been looking at 

HPA 

http://spacedoc.com/how_stress_causes_heart_disease

 

Cortisol is a key stress hormone, and a flatline response is a key indicator that the neurohormonal system has been badly damaged. Some people refer to this as HPA-axis ‘burnout.' This pattern is seen in post-traumatic stress disorder, severe depression, and other forms of psychiatric illness, including myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) otherwise known as chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and post viral fatigue syndrome.

In effect, this study adds to a large and rapidly growing body of research which demonstrates that long term psychological stressors, including; social isolation, bullying, and lack of social support all lead to HPA-axis dysfunction. Which can be detected by a flatline cortisol secretion.

Once this happens, a whole spectrum of physiological abnormalities inevitably follows.
In a shortened version, these include:

• Insulin resistance
• Abdominal obesity
• Raised blood sugar levels
• Raised blood pressure
• Raised fibrinogen levels (a blood clotting factor)

Some of you may recognise this as the metabolic syndrome, or syndrome X, or Reaven's syndrome, or insulin resistance syndrome (yes, it has many names). Whatever you call it, this spectrum of abnormalities greatly increases the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD).

What I find interesting, and strangely little remarked upon, is that this group of abnormalities is also found in a condition called Cushing's disease. In this disease, usually caused by a tumour in the pituitary gland, there is chronically increased production of cortisol. A flatline cortisol response.

Once this happens you see exactly the same set of metabolic abnormalities as you see in metabolic syndrome. When I say exactly, I mean exactly (although often a bit more extreme). Cushing's disease also greatly increases the risk of dying of CVD.

Further support that cortisol may be the key hormone involved in the widespread metabolic disruption that leads to coronary heart disease (CHD) comes from research on steroids. Normally steroids are used for their powerful anti-inflammatory effects, and are prescribed in conditions such as asthma, rheumatoid arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease. However if you give people long-term steroids, they will develop Cushing's syndrome. [steroids are all synthetically based cortisol, which is why they are sometimes called corticosteroids]. 

In the short-term steroids are almost magically powerful. In the long term they lead to

• Insulin resistance
• Abdominal obesity
• Raised blood sugar levels
• Raised blood pressure
• Raised fibrinogen levels (a blood clotting factor)

Yes, you may recognise this list. It is exactly the same as metabolic syndrome, and it is exactly the same set of abnormalities that you see in Cushing's disease.

Recent evidence has demonstrated that long-term steroid use greatly increases the risk of developing insulin resistance, type II diabetes, and then dying of heart disease.

Stress and cortisol and metabolic syndrome - and heart disease

 

Blood Pressure Swing linked to cognitive decline

http://consumer.healthday.com/senior-citizen-information-31/misc-aging-news-10/blood-pressure-swings-may-be-linked-to-mental-decline-study-says-678754.html

 

 

 

Can we believe any medical research – at all?

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2014/11/17/can-we-believe-any-medical-research-at-all/

 

Antidepressant affects on insulin sensitivity

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2010/573594/

 

 

Metabolic dysfunction associated with adiponectin ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21976521

•  

by EB Lee - ‎2011 - ‎Cited by 18 - ‎Related articles

Oct 5, 2011 - Metabolic dysfunction associated with adiponectin deficiency enhances kainic acid-induced seizure severity. Lee EB(1), Warmann G, Dhir R,  ...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiponectin

 

What I have been looking at.. lately.. 

[btdt]

Jun 13, 2014

Many ssri snri drugs cause mitochondria damage... and we can learn a lot about this sort of damage and maybe how to heal it by.. looking at statins that also cause this type of damage... I keep looking... this link is about statins with a post about mito damage. 

FloxieHope said,
April 3, 2014 at 11:00 pm
When examining Statins, it should be noted that they have been shown to damage mitochondria. Article –www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849981/ . Mitochondrial damage can account for all of the relevant adverse effects of statins – muscle weakness and damage, loss of memory/cognitive function, diabetes, depletion of glutathione, etc. An interesting feature of mitochondrial injury is that a threshold of damage must be reached before a disease state results (as described in this article –www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2895369/... ). So, if your study period isn’t long enough, statins truly will have the same number of adverse effects as sugar pills because in a short period of time, the subjects have not crossed their tolerance threshold for mitochondrial damage and no disease state (or AEs) have manifested. It is only with prolonged exposure to mitochondrial damaging chemicals, like statins, that adverse effects manifest.
If you don’t design your study of mitochondrial damaging drugs to take into account how mitochondria react to assaults – with an initial adaptive response followed by a toxic response (as the peroxynitrite cycle is induced), your results don’t actually say anything notable. If you design your study to take into account the tolerance threshold feature of mitochondria, and the odd delayed response to toxic stimuli that they often display, you will likely find that statins are quite a bit more dangerous than sugar pills.
I certainly understand that many research scientists don’t have the time or funding to do long-term studies. But don’t worry – the long-term studies are being done – they’re just being done on the population at large. Hence the reason that it is so important to listen to patients who experience adverse effects of drugs over a long period of time.
Unfortunately, mitochondrial damage is very difficult to fix and stopping treatment with the mito damaging drug does not necessarily stop the mitochondria from continuing to produce damaging ROS (like peroxynitrite) that continue to do damage long after the drug is metabolized.
ROS produced in damaged mitochondria are associated with every chronic disease there is. You, and all the other MDs out there may want to consider that chronic disease may be the result of these drugs that are tossed about like candy because they have no adverse effects in the short term, and the long-term effects are dismissed because patient reports are “anecdotal.”
http://www.badscience.net/2014/03/statins-hav... 

Could explain long healing time for some.

[btdt]

I am trying to find why I keep getting what seems to be wd symptoms this far out... looking under rocks... I know most here are just trying to survive aren't we all... I am tired at this point... something is causing this to continue for me... this far out I need to figure it out if I can. 

7 years is a very long time... 

[Addax]

What are the symptoms specifically? Can you list them?

[btdt]

Neuromodulation is often contrasted with classical fast synaptic transmission. In both cases the transmitter acts on local postsynaptic receptors, but in neuromodulation, the receptors are typically G-protein coupled receptors while in classical chemical neurotransmission, they are ligand-gated ion channels. Neurotransmission that involvesmetabotropic receptors (like G-protein linked receptors) often also involves voltage-gated ion channels,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromodulation

[btdt]

What are the symptoms specifically? Can you list them?

 

 

some are vague.. some are in my face... 

a vagueness of being far away much of the time

 

acute need for sleep like passing out 

if I don't lay down or sit I bet I would eventually just fall

sudden drop off to sleep when it is not sleep tim

 

can be walking along for a bit and will feel everything slow down I don't have the energy to keep going I have to sit same pass out feeling... moving takes extreme effort every leg lift to a step takes a thought... and pushing myself 

 

fatigue 

 

I can't seem to reach a level of thought that has clarity if I get there I can't maintain it long ...losing words again... odd thoughts dropping in about things I have not thought of in years... not bad or good just intrusive and not normal. 

forgetting...again. 

 

blood pressure seems to be fluctuating again for no real reason I had this before... if they treat the high bp knee jerk treatment I had before anti hypertensive drugs cause bp to go too low when it shifts low...I quit it when I quit effexor... before it seemed to normalize I don't recall how thought it was just letting the drug wear off and healing... 

 

not sure why it is back... 

 

2 drugs... i took atenolol (for I can't recall why I was put on it)  and baclofen...muscle spams in my jaw I have a bone spur in one side one half pill of antenolol not much baclofen.. ...

 

something tipped me over back to this bp thing 

 

I have a bp machine because docs did not believe the walmart bp machine when I said my bp was over 200... so I bought one ya still had money then it was over a 100 bucks... still have it. I have had it checked against the docs more than once as my bp goes from normal to very high .. when I am there it will be normal sometimes 133 150... then I leave it goes to 170 or higher... then down.  So they don't believe me when I tell them so I take the machine get a drug...that was before I quit effexor.  Since this has started again I have been checking again.  Same thing up and down... not as high up and I am getting the heart warning like I use to get when I was on E. 

It has a heart warning on it which has been going off lately will have to get it looked at... 

just don't get why now all of a sudden this starts again... 

There have been other things resembling wd.. this past while I have mentioned them.... I know I am sensitive it does not take much to push me off the path and once off it takes forever to get back on... likely cause I don't know what causes it... so many different things should live in a bubble. 

 

I am wondering if this passed illness or the baclofen and or this now are related.. but I can't think that well that long.  

 

I can do chit chat... but not much else. 

However that is not going to help me with this... so I am making attempts ...

[UnfoldingSky]

Hi btdt, sorry to read of the ongoing issues.

 

I find sometimes I have a milder version of the same thing you describe where you need suddenly to sleep.

If I exercise now more often than not that is what happens, afterward I'll suddenly be so so tired.  I've had it come on me though when nothing is going on.

[btdt]

I wonder what it is.  

I have started with the gastro parts of flu symptoms back again today...sometime I have very bad gastro pains liver area always hurts that never goes away no yet anyway.  For a while I could blame the broken rib sometimes still not sure as it is all in the same area. 

I find I need to shower and i am not sure why I don't many reasons I guess but what I know is another day has slipped away and I have not had a shower... I am always tired and have little motivation.  Seems I need a few days of doing nothing to get up the gumption to do a day of anything.  

Perhaps this is chronic fatigue I do wonder maybe I should get some supplements...but they generally don't site well with me either. Tired of myself think I will move on to somebody else... 

peace all

[Muddles]

Uffff...I'm sorry btdt. Does sound like chronic fatigue. I know since I've had this virus I am good for nothing - was good for nothing prior, but I'm literally not able to do anything. Haven't showered for 3 days....tramp!!! I think apathy has a lot to do with this too though. I hate the apathy!

 

Don't worry too much about showering if you're not up to it. Just be kind to yourself. Hugs.

[Muddles]

Mucusless Diet Healing System - search for this book btdt, I have heard good reports.

[btdt]

Uffff...I'm sorry btdt. Does sound like chronic fatigue. I know since I've had this virus I am good for nothing - was good for nothing prior, but I'm literally not able to do anything. Haven't showered for 3 days....tramp!!! I think apathy has a lot to do with this too though. I hate the apathy!

 

Don't worry too much about showering if you're not up to it. Just be kind to yourself. Hugs.

I was talking on Cymbaltas thread this morning and finally said that is enough... and turned off the computer and called the dentist to check this stupid tooth for the 6th time... go in so had to shower no car so had to walk... I was hoping to shower and walk so I said to her I ended up doing both.  Before going to the dentist I was flossing and the said tooth broke part of it was stuck between teeth so I had to go and get him to take it out it would not move.  I wanted him to pull it really I am so sick of this tooth crap... I had one like this last year ended up on antibiotics for months before the tooth finally showed enough symptoms to be pulled... a lump on the gum this one has a lump on the gum too but he says it is not the same.. I think it is a root canal gone bad.  He refused to pull it he doesn't pull teeth anyway .. I know stupid I have to see a specialist and wait a month for that too. So he fixed it and that is that for now... wonder what it has to do before i can get them to pull it... it is close to the other one that had to be pulled the guy who pulled the other one thought it could be either tooth... picked one. 

Around we go.. hope it settles but if not will deal with it. 

 

I think it is withdrawal it presents as chronic fatigue... back to having bowel issue bit long for the flue I was going to shop for the soil probiotics today but had the dentist so side tracked..maybe tomorrow.  So the shower is done for this wk...lol... I feel like a troll saying such a thing I don't like it ...it is not funny... 

peace to you Muddles hope you feel well soon 

[btdt]

Mucusless Diet Healing System - search for this book btdt, I have heard good reports.

 

 

I looked up the diet online found the man who made it extremely interesting.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Ehret

 

• Ehret's early 20th-century views on religion, the Church, Catholicism, homosexuality, motherhood, eugenics, modern science, conventional medicine, alternative medicine, the agriculture industry and the pharmaceutical complex, invited criticism from those factions, which Ehret rebuffed in his books and articles.^[116] 

 

I am left wanting to read more of his idea on all the issues above and more....

 

"The idea of paradise for the whole of humanity will remain utopian. Only very few people will have the opportunity and the good fortune to frolic under the shade of fruit trees and

 

live from the sustenance they provide. Ignorance, lack of discipline, lack of faith, will drive most people into the camp of the opponents of my teachings for a very long time to

 

come.", The Cause & Cure Of Human Illness: The Common Root Cause Of All Disease, Aging & Death by Professor Arnold Ehret, Translated by Max Fischer, Ehret Publishing

 

Literature Company Inc, 2002

 

 

it gives no hint as to what his opinions might have been...

 

 

Arnold Ehret in, Professor B. W. Child's Biographical Sketch of Ehret in The Mucusless Diet Healing System, Arnold Ehret, New York: ELPC, 1994, pages 18-19, "My "coming book

 

" will state, with convincing proof, that Christ's parentage, so-called miracles of healing, and apparent changes of natural law, his resurrection and ascension, into "Heaven", were in

 

accord with natural law, but not then, and not wholly now, understood.""

[btdt]

Jan Carols test results from "Woman" doc think naturopath in case I ever can afford this testing these are the things to look at what the tests are for:

Copper:  10.8 L umol/L   (BELOW LOW)

Zinc 26.2 H umol/L (OVER HIGH)

 

So the first thing is to taper off the zinc, she wants it down to 50 mg/day.  But I worry that my pyroluria will soar when I do that because:

 

Urinary Pyrrole HPL (ug/dL) Normalized:  17.6  which is "low elevated" on the lab's charts.  If it goes up, it will be "elevated elevated."  I've been accidentally treating this for treating other symptoms - and taking zinc which makes it better.  All by intuitive & careful research on the web, & the knowledge I learned from Mom & my own studies in nutrition.

 

Caeruloplasmin (how well I transmit copper) is 0.21 g/L.   still normal but at the very bottom of normal.

(this could have been a cause of my retinal gel separations)

 

Homocysteine 5.6 umol/L is apparently robust, which indicates good veins, and no B & pyridoxine deficiencies, and no obvious renal failure.

 

DHEAS 1.5 umol/L is low normal., she said affirming cardiovascular health, and not an immediate problem.

 

One shot of cortisol (the big multi-spit test isn't in yet) was 286 nmol/L which is pretty chill.  Not too low, not elevated.

 

B-Histamine was 0.5 umol/L which is right in the normal of normal (surprise!  Why have I been taking antihistamines all these years?)

 

So there you have it.  I've posted mine, Have you posted yours?

[Muddles]

Stopping by to say a quick helllllooo! Hope you're coping.

[btdt]

I am fine please look after that head ache my heart goes out to you ... I hate them. 

[degen12]

About time I dropped by your thread. I hope you are doing ok. I will try and catch myself up to your situation.

[WiggleIt]

Hi bt, I wanted to say hello since it has been so long.

[btdt]

5-HT1A & 5-2HT what is the difference?

"There are clear neurological reasons, Kate explained and follow-up research corroborated, why an SSRI antidepressant like Paxil would generate a withdrawal syndrome. First, while this class of drugs artificially raises the amount of serotonin in the brain, the serotonergic system doesn't ignore the increase, but adjusts to and compensates for it, downregulating the number of 5-HT1A receptors because the drugs, altering serotonin levels, put them in less demand. At the same time, the serotonergic system needs more 5-HT2 receptors to soak up the excess of the messenger, a situation many studies have linked to patients' widespread complaints of sexual dysfunction, because those receptors send saturation signals to the brain. In 2002, in the International Journal of Neuropsychopharmacology, to invoke just one study, Adam Opbroek and his colleagues found that "80% of patients with SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction also describe clinically significant blunting of several emotions" (p. 147)."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201107/antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome

 

I know maybe if I could keep it in my head for a wk I could figure it out ... I am looking for a cheat here what is the difference is somebody could just tell me. 

 

The first part is old hat to me but the second is not.

No clue what the 5-HT2 receptors are do where they are located... 

 

I thought the part of the system that sent the serotonin out was the same part that was suppose uptake it again and it could not do that due to having the drug in the system preventing... it. 

 

wiki FAILED ME  OR I IT HARD TO TELL TODAY

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

The 5-HT₂ receptors are a subfamily of 5-HT receptors that bind the endogenous neurotransmitter serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT).^[1] The 5-HT₂ subfamily consists of three G protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs) which are coupled to G_q/G₁₁ and mediate excitatory neurotransmission,^[2] including 5-HT_2A, 5-HT_2B, and 5-HT_2C. For more information, please see the respective main articles of the individual subtypes:

Main article: 5-HT2A receptor

Main article: 5-HT2B receptor

Main article: 5-HT2C receptor

Edited February 11, 2015 by Petunia
added topic title

[btdt]

Stomach is a better due to careful amounts of pepto bismol seems to work best from all things I have tried.  I have slept a fair amount but it generally includes a nap close to the passing out thing more than going to sleep. 

I know this has been ongoing a few months now... but maybe this is the turning point.  Today I noticed some cold products OTC that may have kick started this entire wave thing I can't be sure.  I can't see the writing on the bottle of couch syrup but I did take some when I was sick in Dec.  It sure has been a long thing whatever it is ... however this stomach thing started before then...but I could sleep before the cough med. 

 

Hard to say.  Either way I am going to try stacking the deck towards sleep tonight so good night folks ... sorry I missed some people hope your all doing well I have no energy left. 

peace all

[btdt]

I may be back... before the night it thru if I give up on my quest for sleep.   

peace

[btdt]

• 
  
  
  
  5-HT receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  

  
  

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor
  

  
  

  
  

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  5-HT receptor. The serotonin receptors, also known as 5-hydroxytryptamine receptors or 5-HT receptors, are a group of G protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs) and ligand-gated ion channels (LGICs) found in the central and peripheral nervous systems. They mediate both excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmission.
  

  ‎5-HT1 receptor - ‎5-HT2 receptor - ‎5-HT3 receptor

  
  

  
  
  
  
  

[btdt]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

5-HT_2A receptor

 

 

5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin) receptor 2A, G protein-coupled Identifiers Symbols HTR2A ; 5-HT2A; HTR2 External IDs OMIM: 182135 MGI: 109521HomoloGene: 68073 IUPHAR: 5-HT_2AChEMBL: 224 GeneCards: HTR2A Gene [show]Gene ontology RNA expression pattern More reference expression data Orthologs Species Human Mouse   Entrez 3356 15558   Ensembl ENSG00000102468 ENSMUSG00000034997   UniProt P28223 P35363   RefSeq (mRNA) NM_000621 NM_172812   RefSeq (protein) NP_000612 NP_766400   Location (UCSC) Chr 13:
47.41 – 47.47 Mb Chr 14:
74.64 – 74.71 Mb   PubMedsearch [1] [2]  

 

The mammalian 5-HT_2A receptor is a subtype of the 5-HT₂ receptor that belongs to the serotonin receptor family and is a G protein-coupled receptor (GPCR).^[1] This is the main excitatory receptor subtype among the GPCRs forserotonin (5-HT), although 5-HT_2A may also have an inhibitory effect^[2] on certain areas such as the visual cortex and the orbitofrontal cortex. This receptor was first given importance as the target of serotonergic psychedelic drugs such as LSD. Later it came back to prominence because it was also found to be mediating, at least partly, the action of many antipsychotic drugs, especially theatypical ones.

5-HT_2A may be a necessary receptor for the spread of the human polyoma virus called JC virus.^[3]

Downregulation of post-synaptic 5-HT_2A receptor is an adaptive process provoked by chronic administration of SSRIs and classical antipsychotics. Deceased suicidal and otherwise depressed patients have had more 5-HT_2Areceptors than normal patients. These findings suggest that post-synaptic 5-HT_2A overdensity is involved in the pathogenesis of depression.^[4]

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and wiki redeems itself... I think 

 

Key points: 

Downregulation of post-synaptic 5-HT_2A receptor is an adaptive process provoked by chronic administration of SSRIs and classical antipsychotics.

 

 

1.  Wingen M, Kuypers KP, Ramaekers JG (2007). "Selective verbal and spatial memory impairment after 5-HT1A and 5-HT2A receptor blockade in healthy volunteers pre-treated with an SSRI". J. Psychopharmacol. (Oxford) 21 (5): 477–85. doi10.1177/0269881106072506:. PMID 17092965.

for some reason I do not understand the link above will not post in a normal attempt to copy paste after doi:10.1177/0269881106072506

dah or just see this link.

http://jop.sagepub.com/content/21/5/477

or easier still read this

 

Selective verbal and spatial memory impairment after 5-HT_1A and 5-HT_2A receptor blockade in healthy volunteers pre-treated with an SSRI

1. M. Wingen
   1. Experimental Psychopharmacology Unit, Faculty of Psychology, Brain & Behaviour Institute, Maastricht University, the Netherlands,m.wingen@psychology.unimaas.nl

1. K.P.C. Kuypers
   1. Experimental Psychopharmacology Unit, Faculty of Psychology, Brain & Behaviour Institute, Maastricht University, the Netherlands

1. J.G. Ramaekers
   1. Experimental Psychopharmacology Unit, Faculty of Psychology, Brain & Behaviour Institute, Maastricht University, the Netherlands.

Abstract

Serotonergic neurotransmission has been implicated in memory impairment. It is uncLear however if memory performance is mediated through general 5-HT availability, through specific 5-HT receptors or both. The aim of the present study was to assess the contribution of 5-HT reuptake inhibition and specific blockade of 5-HT_1A and 5-HT_2Areceptors to memory impairment.

The study was conducted according to a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, four-way cross-over design including 16 healthy volunteers. The treatment consisted of oral administration of escitalopram 20 mg + placebo, escitalopram 20 mg + ketanserin 50 mg, escitalopram 20 mg + pindolol 10 mg and placebo on 4 separate days with a washout period of minimum 7 days. Different memory tasks were performed including verbal memory, spatial working memory and reversal learning.

Escitalopram showed an impairing effect on immediate verbal recall which nearly reached statistical significance. No effects of escitalopram were found on other types of memory. In combination with pindolol, immediate verbal recall was significantly impaired. Escitalopram in combination with ketanserin impaired spatial working memory significantly. No effects were found on reversal learning.

Selective impairment of immediate verbal recall after a 5-HT_1A partial agonist and selective impairment of spatial working memory performance after 5-HT_2A receptor antagonist, both in combination with a selective serotonergic reuptake inhibitor (escitalopram), suggests that 5-HT_1A and 5-HT_2A receptors are distinctly involved in verbal and spatial memory.

• memory
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• serotonin
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• escitalopram
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• pindolol
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• ketanserin

Articles citing this article

• Serotonin Regulates Performance Nonmonotonically in a Spatial Working Memory NetworkCereb Cortex September 1, 2014 24: 2449-2463
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• The role of serotonin in cognitive function: evidence from recent studies and implications for understanding depressionJ Psychopharmacol July 1, 2013 27: 575-583
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• 5-HT1A Receptor Agonists Enhance Pyramidal Cell Firing in Prefrontal Cortex Through a Preferential Action on GABA InterneuronsCereb Cortex July 1, 2012 22: 1487-1497
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[btdt]

Knowing that does not make me feel any better... but I will be back. 
As like Eve I can't stop eating that apple... even if I can't digest it I want it. 

I want to understand. 

[btdt]

Liberal use of pepto bismol... I am sleeping a few hours at a time and going back to sleep when I wake at night. For two or more days now... somehow i feel detached like I am behind a glass wall. I don't like it not sure if it has something to do with pepto or not... but it sucks. 

 

I also feel like I can't get any fluctuation is energy I am just always kind of hmmm in the motivation department... not too interested in anything.  

Tho the sudden must sleep spells seem to have passed