btdt: introducing myself

[btdt]

Thanks Dire I thought of that and past screw ups... thought there is no sense being shy now the cows are out in the field munching grass the gate is open...

[direstraits]

 love reading your thoughts

[Dan998]

My brain is also feeling scrambled today. 

[Muddles]

I'm always angry with happy people btdt and don't understand why either. Maybe envy, maybe it's the thought and feeling that 'this is it', this is our life. We have every right to be angry.

 

I'm sorry you are this way...it's not the normal 'feeling down' that one can snap out of by a few comforting words or hugs. I don't know what to say but know I am always thinking of you.

[btdt]

I'm always angry with happy people btdt and don't understand why either. Maybe envy, maybe it's the thought and feeling that 'this is it', this is our life. We have every right to be angry.

 

I'm sorry you are this way...it's not the normal 'feeling down' that one can snap out of by a few comforting words or hugs. I don't know what to say but know I am always thinking of you.

I think of you often too Muddles 

Tonight I was googling around and came to this 

ANTIDEPRESSANT WITHDRAWAL - Videos Musicales

w.tvplayvideos.com/3,ZL159C97C9I/.../Antidepressant-Withdrawal

•  

... .org/music/Dexter_Britain/Creative_Commons_Selection/From_Truth Images; ... taurine, spirulina, wheatgrass, vitamin D, magnesium and serrapeptase daily. .... forum: "Surviving Antidepressants" http://survivingantidepressants.org Music: ..

 

 

Take a look at what is in the list.. taurine spirulina wheatgrass... vit D ( if only I could take it)  mag (ditto) serrapeptase... and enzyme - for inflammation... I have no idea what this is about got it by a fluke and he may be one huge liar... too 

He says I think that he cured sensitivities... for me it went away once already so maybe that is no big claim... all I see on the list I did was the taurine hit and miss tiny amounts doubt it could be that... 

 

it makes no sense still. Yet part of me wants to go on a money gather in venture and go there.. wherever he is lol ... no not really yes I want to go.. no I don't ... it goes like that the last house since I found it... 

 

no info tho... likely a scam.

[Muddles]

I think our sensitivities arr huge in this btdt. I know for sure I would be experiencing windows if it was not for such severe sensitivities to life. It is keeping me very, very sick and no doubt effecting my brain. For one, I know emf sensitivity breaks down the blood brain barrier - that is worrying in itself.

 

What to do? I don't know. I wish there were something.

 

I've sent you a PM.

[btdt]

I got you pm and sent way too much back to you it needs to be sorted yet...

 

posting this here as a result... 

 

" inflating a blood pressure cuff to high pressures"

I have been seeing a kidney specialist due to blood pressure problems it is too high then too low... 

if they drug me I react goes too low 

 

I have my own bp machine and was asked to bring it so I did... on mine my bp is 180 and lower down to 120 some times... 

 

she checked my machine said it was 20-30 off... after checking with her automatic machine.. which first try said my bp was good.. I asked her to check again after we had used mine machine .. it was up like my machine had suggested... 

 

her bp machine tightens and about cuts my arm off I have lower bp readings on that machine 

 

she then became confused and took me to another room to test my bp the old fashioned way she got 140 something on one arm 114 on the other... went back and forth a couple of times 

 

she said given my response to drugs had been a problem she could not recommend drugs suggested I sit in a quiet room... or something like that... just one more apt that is confusing offering now solid leads 

'

 

After I got home I thought about this and for some reason if the cuff is very tight my bp is lower... that is what I personally deduced from my apt... 

I am not a bp specialist I am curious if anyone here has the same sort of issues - any ideas? 

[btdt]

All these drugs need to cross the blood brain barrier in order to work in opening the barrier year on end with cumulative drug use may well be what allows these chemical sensitivities in the brain now ... WHICH MAKE ME SICK! 

 

YES  just what i need another illness nobody believes is real for f.....sakes!

 

yet here I am and now I am combing thru all I know to sort this out once again with a limping brain... 

 

 

 

 I am reacting to everything under the sun again and cannot control my environment... I am thinking back to the things that helped before when it was really bad... cleaning crap out of the house was one thing no makeup nail polish cleaners that make me sick or hair dye... ect... 

 

I can't do that now... as we have a room mater that needs all these thing and refuses to be helpful

 

second diet... I ate a lot of eggs even tho I had often reacted badly to them as a child they would not stay in me... I ate two every day yuck covered the taste with as many spices as you could imagine... 

 

followed the liver diet book what to eat to be well

but there were also supplements in that book I never took... choline something or other was one 

 

today I read this site...

http://www.ei-resource.org/support/forums/multiple-chemical-sensitivity-mcs/319-thiamine-and-the-blood-brain-barrier/

 

"If you have problems taking supplements, or prefer not to take them... EGGS are the best source for both B vitamins and lecithin/phosphatidylcholine! The vitamins and lecithin in eggs are damaged by the cooking process, and \"soft boiled/over easy/sunny side up\" where the yoke is still runny will help you get the most benefit. Raw or severely undercooked eggs can cause a risk of salmonella, so use caution if your immune system is compromised."

 

I still don't like eggs for the most part can only stand them hard cooked... but may have to try it again.  

[btdt]

I took one advil.. skipped the T3 till bed time i need to sleep

I feel better for it with less pain in my body...

 

Today I am off on a vitamin search... triggered by reading Tilly's thread.  

 

I have had good success with all bran original stick type cereal but not the same with the all bran bud cereal it is more processed ... when I use to take the advil every day I also at this bran cereal every day... I did compare the sticks to the buds long ago and there was a big difference in one or two of the B vitamins in each... I did not think of sharing it then and have long since thrown out the bud as it was useless to me. 

 

Today I thought I would research it online and see what the difference was as the bottom line idea was if this B vitamin is higher in the cereal that makes me feel better why not see to it I get more of it... 

 

I went to check the details online only to find the all bran sticks nutritional facts I find online are not the same as the ones on the side of the box of cereal i have in my hand... 

 

Box in had is different. 

less calories I don't care top bit I don't care... 

my box

Vit A 0%   with milk 8% skipping the with milk % from here on as we can all check our own milk nutrition if we want to=don't want to type it. 

vit C 0 

Calcium 4%

Iron 35%

Vit D 0

Thiamine 60%

Riboflavin 10%

Niacin 20% 

B6 10%

Folate 10%

Pantothenate 8%

Phosphorus 30%

Magnesium 50%

Zince 25% 

 

This is the list of possibly helpful things or it could all be gut health and getting fiber but if that were true the buds were as much fiber and were a complete fail for me personally. 

 

Thiamine looks like a good candidate to check since there is so much in my magic food... 

 

Thiamine is an essential nutrient, and all the tissues of the body, including the brain, need thiamine to function properly. The body needs thiamine to make adenosine triphosphate (ATP), a molecule that transports energy within cells.

it is called B1. 

Thiamine deficiency can lead to two major health problems: beriberi and Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. Beriberi affects breathing, eye movements, heart function, and alertness. It’s caused by a buildup of pyruvic acid in the bloodstream, which is a side effect of your body not being able to turn food into fuel.

Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome is technically two different disorders. Wernicke's disease affects the nervous system and causes visual impairments, a lack of muscle coordination, and mental decline. If Wernicke's disease is left untreated, it can lead to Korsakoff syndrome, which permanently impairs memory functions in the brain.

 

 

Magnesium we know a lot about this already but this is new to me.

A long history of published evidence demonstrating that treatment with magnesium can have anti-depressant effect—this was first published in 1921—suggests that low magnesium can actually cause depression.  Sadly I can't tolerate it in supplement form but can do espom salt baths just don't do them often...

 

Phosphorus this is a surprise to me

The main function of phosphorus is in the formation of bones and teeth.

It plays an important role in how the body uses carbohydrates and fats. It is also needed for the body to make protein for the growth, maintenance, and repair of cells and tissues. Phosphorus also helps the body make ATP, a molecule the body uses to store energy.

Phosphorus works with the B vitamins. It also helps with the following:

• Kidney function
• Muscle contractions
• Normal heartbeat
• Nerve signaling

Food Sources

The main food sources are the protein food groups of meat and milk. A meal plan that provides adequate amounts of calcium and protein also provides an adequate amount of phosphorus.

Although whole-grain breads and cereals contain more phosphorus than cereals and breads made from refined flour, this is a storage form of phosphorus called phytin, which is not absorbed by humans.  So what am I getting in my cereal a form I can't use... I don't know it may be added or it may not be of any use. 

Riboflavin                                                                                                                                                      Living organisms derive most of their energy from redox reactions, which are processes that involve the transfer of electrons. Flavocoenzymes participate in redox reactions in numerous metabolic pathways (3). They are critical for the metabolism ofcarbohydrates, lipids, and proteins. FAD is part of the electron transport (respiratory) chain, which is central to energy production. In conjunction with cytochrome P-450, flavocoenzymes also participate in the metabolism of drugs and toxins (4).

 

Summary

• Riboflavin is the precursor of the coenzymes, flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) and flavin mononucleotide (FMN). They act as electron carriers in a number of oxidation-reduction(redox) reactions involved in energy production and in numerous metabolic pathways.(More information)
• Riboflavin deficiency can affect multiple pathways in the metabolism of vitamin B6, folate, niacin, and iron. (More information)
• Riboflavin deficiency has been linked to preeclampsia in pregnant women. This condition may progress to eclampsia and cause severe bleeding and death. The risk of preeclampsia has recently been associated with the presence of a genetic variant (C677T) in the methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) gene. This gene codes for the MTHFR enzyme, which is FAD-dependent. (More information)
• Oxidative stress can cause opacification of the eye lens, leading to cataracts in older individuals. While the results of some observational studies are promising, intervention studies are needed to assess a potential benefit of riboflavin in the prevention of cataracts. (More information)
• Riboflavin (in the form, FAD) is required as a cofactor for the key folate-metabolizing enzyme, MTHFR. A low status of riboflavin status may interfere with the metabolism of folate, particularly in individuals homozygous for the MTHFR C677T gene variant; these individuals exhibit a higher risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). Emerging evidence from intervention trials supports a protective role for riboflavin against hypertension in individuals with the MTHFR 677TT genotype. (More information)
• Riboflavin has been evaluated as a prophylactic agent in studies with children and adults suffering from migraine headache. Riboflavin supplementation has been shown to decrease the frequency and severity of headache attacks in adults but not in children.(More information)
• Case reports have shown that patients with autosomal recessive disorders of riboflavin metabolism may benefit from riboflavin supplementation. (More information)
• Riboflavin has been evaluated as a potential adjunct therapy in cancer and certain eye disorders. (More information)

oh my I need a nap... later

http://www.ei-resource.org/support/forums/multiple-chemical-sensitivity-mcs/319-thiamine-and-the-blood-brain-barrier/

 

Apparently I had a day where I took on the cereal quest as here it is.. this one cereal became my anchor at one point I would not leave home without it not even over night... if you look at the cereal that helped and the one just like it but a bit more processed that did not help you will see the difference was THIAMINE was reduced from 60% - 25% in the more processed cereal that was a waste of my money. 

I guess I was too ill to follow thru with it last time and today that link above has this title...

 

Thiamine and the Blood Brain Barrier

Thiamine and the Blood Brain Barrier 6 years 6 months ago

 

 

I am now looking for  Benfotiamine

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/Benfotiamine.htm

 

and this 

Phosphatidylcholine

http://www.raysahelian.com/phospha.html

Astrocytes are cells in the lining of the brain that \"support\" the blood brain barrier, which is responsible for keeping environmental toxins away from the brain... Apparently, this is a rather demanding task and consumes a lot of energy which is supplied by the mitochondria, of which astrocytes are quite rich in. I had tried all kinds of supplements for my MCS, including thiamine, but until I tried Phosphatidylcholine (PPC) nothing had worked. Phosphatidylcholine repairs mitochondrial membranes (which are comprised largely of phospholipids) and gets the mitochondria (and astrocytes) working properly again.

[btdt]

thiamine hydrochloride 100mg

phosphatidyl choline

 

This is what I could get and we will see how it goes... could not get the kind of thiamine that is easy to get to the brain. 

[Skylarblue75]

How are you doing with the new supplements? I hope they work for you and if they do please keep us posted. Hope your having a peaceful day.

[btdt]

I thought almost right away that I could think better... the idea was to build up my bbb so I don't react to things if it is indeed true... 

 

I felt sluggish the last few days... 

 

Today I did some running around I needed to do but was like pulling teeth physically to get it done mentally I was mostly ok. 

 

On arriving home I was really hungry I ate and had stomach and back pain ...back is nothing new I slept a couple hours woke with the type of runs more severe than I had in the prep for a colonoscopy. 

 

I can't say it is from the supplements but chances are pretty good it is. I did not take my own advice I give all the time I did not start low I did not start one supplement at a time.. I went wild ... took both took what it said on one bottle and more then it said on another... why am I reckless?  I think is shear desperation to be well... I just said to hell with it I am doing this and so I did.. maybe a bit impulsive too.  

 

Still it seems I can deal better with physical messed over mental if I had to choose I would choose my brain if this heals my brain my gut had better watch out... is my thinking right now maybe do a pulsed supplemental trial.. not sure yet will see what the rest of the night and tomorrow bring. 

 

I am playing it by ear as I ate out yesterday there is a chance it is food poisoning... not a lot of energy still 

 

There are two ways of looking at this nothing ventured nothing gained... and with my sensitivities how I could I not expect to have a reaction to supplements... I always do react usually badly. 

 

Still I am not done... just not sure what my next step it. 

I will keep you posted.

peace

[btdt]

Looking at Bit B5 

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/16/3/263.pdf

 

Stops burning hands and feet.  

 

Malnourished prisoners of war during World War II reported numbness and burning sensations in their feet, which was remedied with pantothenic acid supplementation.39 "e most extensive investigations of human pantothenic acid de!ciency took place in the mid-to-late 1950s.40-43 A diet low in pantothenic acid, generally in combination with the drug omega-methyl pantothenate (a pantothenate kinase inhibitor), was used to produce pantothenic acid de!ciency in healthy subjects. A severe depletion of pantothenic acid for approximately six weeks was required before clear signs and symptoms of de!ciency – many of which mirror the e$ects of de!ciency in animals – were produced.40 "e triad of fatigue (including apathy and malaise), headache, and weakness was the most consistent !nding. Other common e$ects included gastrointestinal disturbances (nausea, abdominal cramps, occasional vomiting, increased %atulence, and epigastric burning sensations); sleep disturbances; and personality changes and emotional disorders. A less regular occurrence was signs of cardiovascular instability (tachycardia and lability of arterial blood pressure, with a tendency to orthostatic hypotension). Paresthesias, burning sensations of the hands and feet, and muscle cramps and weakness occurred in several subjects. Impaired motor coordination also occurred in some subjects, and was accompanied by a peculiar gait. In some de!ciency experiments, infections were common; in others they were not. Several biochemical abnormalities were reported. A loss of the normal eosinopenic response to adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) was the most consistent lab !nding. Less consistent lab !ndings among studies of pantothenic acid de!ciency include a reduction in the degree of urinary acetylated para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) and 17-ketosteroids, abnormal glucose tolerance, increased sensitivity to insulin, reduced secretion of gastric hydrochloric acid and pepsin, decreased and increased cholesterol, and hypokalemia.40-43 Administration of pantothenic acid was followed by improvement of the paresthesias and muscle weakness, but fatigue and some degree of irritability persisted. "ere was also a prompt correction of the impaired eosinopenic response to ACTH and most of the other clinical symptoms when pantothenic acid was supplied.40 One of the key !ndings remarked upon by the researchers was that the de!ciency results produced were inconsistent between individuals and from experiment to experiment. "e same was true for prompt and complete recovery from all symptoms, which did not always follow pantothenic acid administration. "ey suspected biochemical individuality, unrecognized variations in the composition of the diet, the activity of, or response to, a drug antagonist of pantothenic acid, or possible other factors might be involved in producing these inconsistencies. Whatever the reason(s), there was a wide variation in normal persons in response to their attempts to induce pantothenic acid de!ciency and to corrective doses of pantothenic acid.40 "e last mechanism for producing pantothenic acid de!ciency in humans was the administration of calcium hopantenate (also called homopantothenate; a pantothenic acid antagonist). Cases of reversible encephalopathy, hepatic steatosis, and a Reye-like syndrome were reported in persons receiving this drug. It has been suggested that these outcomes might have been produced by a medication-induced pantothenic acid de!ciency.44

 

 

Maybe I will ad this next... if I am able to keep the supplements I am taking now down. 

[btdt]

Did not sleep well at all feel crappy... one supplement is big feels like it gets stuck in my digestive tract... not taking anything today.. we are having bad weather that always makes me feel like crap anyway... 

 

today I wrote this to a friend. 

"there are some days I look at other people who have never been tasked by this sort of bs and I want to leave my body ... just get out and get in them yes take their body and go for a free and easy walk... have sex ... have beer and go for a swim.... take a nap in peace... a nice long gentle peaceful nap with no body pain and nothing on my body contracted.... have a real restorative sleep... eat wake up at peace... how wonderful it would be... 

[btdt]

Today just Vit E and B1

[jen84]

I hope that one day soon you will experience those pleasures, and more.

[btdt]

I read in Petu's post how she had a time where she felt better than she ever has ..about 2 years off... I had a break around 17 months post cold turkey... 

 I thought I would be done with wd by 2 years for sure I felt good. I was social felt normal for what seemed like a long time to me as things had been shifting a lot previously.  In retrospect it may have been a month 2 months top of feeling mostly better. Then it changed again at 18 months I had one of the most negative stretches of all my wd time.. it came and stuck tome like glue everything was gloom I could not shake it and I was doing everything I knew. It just lasted a few months nothing I did seemed to help much other than accepting it.

 

Since I have had better and worse time but nothing like that time where all seemed right again I have no idea what I did to make it all come back.. I wish I knew maybe nothing I did would have affected it.  I don't know. 

 

 

 

Today just Vit E and B1

I ended up taking the phosphatidyl choline later in the day.  I did eat two boiled eggs to help make up for skipping it.  I don't like taking it as the capsules are hard and when I bit one it broke like glass... sharp and dangerously hard.  I soaked one capsule in water to see how it would break down it took a day for it to soften... then it enlarged like a comic book sea monkey... neither of these things sound good to put into my gut... broken glass or growing sea monkeys. So I bit one and took all the contents out later in the day and swallowed it.. 

 

I am sure the contents is put in this egg like shell for a reason .. acid in the stomach destroys the content maybe... or some other reason.  It feels like the hard large capsule gets stuck in and does not want to digest. I am still thinking about this. 

 

As for the Thiamine I did some more research on  it today... deficiency can cause psychosis  reasons for deficiency include liver problems which I have.. there are other causes too... .. https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/thiamin

 

It is likely too soon to tell this may all be in my head but today I had to copy a row of numbers... a long row with 30 numbers... I could recall a few at a time and kept double checking... I only made one mistake.. for me this is amazing... 

 

for a long time a task like copying a row of number like this would be cause for a near break down... I would have to do each number on its own two tops... mark them off as I went as I lose my place and that just added to the frustration.  I know it is only one thing... but today I knew what day it was too s that is two things... 

 

I copied that row of numbers correctly ... I double checked it several times even the checking was better less frustrating... I kept going back to the row and trying again thinking that time was just a fluke but then I just DID IT AGAIN!!! OVER AND OVER... till the end of the row. It is a very small thing in the scheme of things that one needs to live a life but to me ... if i am not completely crazy and off my nut... this is amazing. I am almost afraid to put it here in case I can never do it again. 

 

My feet have been burning tingling paining tonight and I wondered if it was a reaction to the B1... when I looked up deficiency I just spelled that word right!!! lol 

without spell check.. oh my this is going to my head... a bit. 

I don't see any toxicity to B1 but maybe I need to look more.

I think I am going to put this on the forum I know premature but I am doing it anyway as I am not the one who discovered deficiency causes psychosis  

 

After my amazing feet.. or feat.. I don't know so much for amazing... after my number copying today I grew tried and slept the entire day in a very deep sleep with a dream... all I recall of it was I was bleeding from my finger. A dream is a big deal I don't have many... but the sleep tho I woke feeling like I was hit by a bus.. was deep and very sound not like the sleep I normally had it was very different. 

 

I am not expecting any sleep tonight .. since I learned deficiency causes burning feet... I am almost tempted to take another B1 or a half ..maybe.. I was in a real bad mood but there were  reasons.. still I could not seem to stop the bad mood...that has passed now. 

 

I have been taking the phosphatidyle by biting the capsule.. see what happens I guess. 

[btdt]

I hope that one day soon you will experience those pleasures, and more.

 

Thank you Jen .. I do sometimes tire of all this.. it is the simple things I miss. One thing I would like to say is if I did not have the memory of these simple pleasures I could ot miss them so some place in my head I have what I need to relive the memory ... or construct one... if you know what I mean do my own relaxation escape hatch video in my head...  I have been thinking about it a bit since I wrote that.  From playing a video game with a child I babysat a few months back I recall how it felt to swim as my avitar in the game ... It felt good it felt in some way freeing ... he kept saying to me there is nothing out there to get so just get out of the water... but I didn't.. There is more to these things than we think and more to the loss of such things too I imagine more than we know. 

 

I have found it impossible to visualize things for a very long time ..maps are impossible and I am always getting lost .. everybody knows .. it is best to just pick me up if there is something important I need to get to. As I generally screw up directions ect.  

 

I feel visualization is the same there are a lot of areas where we would normally use it but unless we think to look it up ect we wouldn't know what other utilities in our brain  use the same defunct wiring... I think dreams may be shy cause of this but don't really know as I have not looked. 

 

I am kind of bumping around lately... trying to sort things still... 

Thank you for the kind wishes I can use all I can get

peace

[btdt]

*topic moved from symptoms section

Thiamine Deficiency Causes Psychosis

 

https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/thiamin

 

Thiamin ˈthī-ə-mən, -ˌmēn

 

(Vitamin B1)

by Larry E. Johnson, MD, PhD

NOTE: This is the Consumer Version. DOCTORS: Click here for the Professional Version

• Vitamins 
• Overview of Vitamins
• Folate
• Niacin
• Riboflavin
• Thiamin
• Vitamin A
• Vitamin B 6
• Vitamin B 12
• Vitamin C
• Vitamin D
• Vitamin E
• Vitamin K

Thiamin (vitamin B 1 ) is widely available in the diet. It is essential for the processing (metabolism) of carbohydrates (to produce energy) and for normal nerve and heart function. Thiamin is not toxic.

Thiamin Deficiency

(Beriberi)

• A diet consisting mainly of white flour, white sugar, and other highly processed carbohydrates can cause thiamin deficiency.

• At first, people have vague symptoms such as fatigue and irritability, but a severe deficiency (beriberi) can affect the nerves, muscles, heart, and brain.

• The diagnosis is based on symptoms.

• Thiamin supplements, usually taken by mouth, can correct the deficiency.

Thiamin deficiency often occurs with other B vitamin deficiencies. It may result from a deficiency in the diet, as may occur in young adults with severe anorexia or in people whose diet consists mainly of highly processed carbohydrates (such as polished white rice, white flour, and white sugar). Polishing rice removes almost all of the vitamins.

Alcoholics, who often substitute alcohol for food and thus do not consume enough thiamin, are at high risk of developing this deficiency. Also, alcohol may interfere with the absorption and metabolism of this vitamin.

Thiamin deficiency may also result from disorders or conditions that increase the body’s need for thiamin. Examples are thyroid disorders, pregnancy, breastfeeding, strenuous exercise, and fever. Liver disorders may interfere with the metabolism of the vitamin. Having diarrhea for a long time may prevent thiamin from being absorbed, causing a deficiency.

Symptoms

Early symptoms are vague. They include fatigue, irritability, poor memory, loss of appetite, sleep disturbances, abdominal discomfort, and weight loss. Eventually, a severe thiamin deficiency (beriberi) may develop, characterized by nerve, heart, and brain abnormalities. Different forms of beriberi cause different symptoms.

Dry Beriberi

Nerve and muscle abnormalities develop. Symptoms include a prickling (pins-and-needles) sensation in the toes, a burning sensation in the feet that is particularly severe at night, and leg cramps and pain. Muscles may become weak and waste away (atrophy).

Wet Beriberi

Heart abnormalities develop. The heart pumps more blood and beats faster. Blood vessels widen (dilate), making the skin warm and moist. Because the heart cannot continue to work at this level, heart failure eventually develops. As a result, fluid accumulates in the legs (as edema) and in the lungs (as congestion), and blood pressure may fall, leading to shock and death.

Brain Abnormalities

Thiamin deficiency causes brain abnormalities primarily in alcoholics. Brain abnormalities may be present without causing any symptoms until something happens to worsen the thiamin deficiency, such as an alcoholic binge. Brain abnormalities can also cause symptoms after an alcoholic is given carbohydrates intravenously. Symptoms occur because these extra carbohydrates further increase thiamin requirements. These brain abnormalities are called the Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome (see Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome), which has two parts:

• Wernicke encephalopathy (see Wernicke’s Encephalopathy) causes confusion, difficulty walking, and eye problems, including involuntary eye movements (nystagmus) and partial paralysis of the eyes. If Wernicke encephalopathy is not promptly treated, symptoms may worsen, resulting in coma and even death.

• Korsakoff psychosis (see Korsakoff’s Syndrome) causes memory loss for recent events, confusion, and a tendency to make up facts to fill in gaps in memories (confabulation).

Infantile Beriberi

This form occurs in infants (usually by age 3 to 4 wk) who are breastfed by a mother who has a thiamin deficiency. In these infants, heart failure may occur suddenly. They may lose their voice (aphonia) to some degree, and they may not have certain reflexes.

Diagnosis

• Physical examination

• Relief of symptoms when thiamin supplements are taken

The diagnosis is based on symptoms. Tests to confirm the diagnosis are not readily available. Blood tests to measure electrolyte levels are usually done to exclude other possible causes. The diagnosis is confirmed if thiamin supplements relieve symptoms.

Treatment

• Thiamin supplements

All forms of the deficiency are treated with thiamin supplements. They are usually given by mouth. They are given intravenously if symptoms are severe. Because thiamin deficiency often occurs with other B vitamin deficiencies, multivitamins are usually given for several weeks. People are encouraged to eat healthily and are advised to consume 1 to 2 times the daily recommended intake of vitamins. They should not drink any alcohol.

Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, a medical emergency, is treated with high doses of thiamin given intravenously or by injection into a muscle (intramuscularly) for several days. Use of alcohol should be stopped. When people who may be alcoholics must be fed intravenously, they are given thiamin supplements first because they are likely to be deficient in thiamin. Giving them thiamin can prevent Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome from developing or worsening.

With treatment, most people recover completely. In some people with Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, some brain damage is permanent. Symptoms of beriberi may recur years after apparent recovery.

[btdt]

Earlier in wd I found one cereal helped me feel better while another didn't.. 

All Bran sticks was good All Brand Buds wasn't.... 

Awhile back I checked the labels and found the sticks to be higher in Thiamine. 

 

I have been having trouble with multiple chemical sensitivities I searched a website for things to help... B1 which is Thiamine and Phosophatidyl Choline was suggested and tried by me for the last wk. I have nothing to report on the sensitivity issue of yet... but I seem to be able to remember more numbers in a row. 

 

On searching tonight I learned a lot more about Thiamine the idea of psychosis seemed like a big deal to me one that needed to be shared just in case. 

 

I am generally not a supplement person as I prefer to get my nutrients in food but I do have issues with my liver so this one is making some sense to me... I tend to react badly to most supplements many of them simple vitamins like B1 ... there is no way I want to try a mixed B vitamin as I have had trouble with it in the past. 

 

At this point I am not too sure of much except I could recall numbers better and spelling as bad is it can be... both of these things can change in wd from time to time without any supplemental help... but the numbers seems extreme to me .. more improvement than I have seen with a window in the past and I don't feel well.. so window is out.. weather is bad here and migraine took a good part of my day. 

peace

[AliG]

 Hi Btdt,   I'm pretty sure lecithin, has a lot of phosphatidyl choline , in it. Maybe , the natural form could be good. I've just ordered "sunflower lecithin", as I wanted to avoid "soy".  It's good for the brain.  Just a thought. I'll let you know how I go.  

[Muddles]

I cannot visualise either - it's strange because I can remember sometimes how things felt but just cannot reach that place.

 

I hope you see some improvement. I'm watching with hope.

[btdt]

I am going fishing for understanding on how Thiamine affects the brain... that is what is happening here I don't know anything that is why I am looking Please keep this small fact in mind as you read the next posts. 

 

"There are clear neurological reasons, Kate explained and follow-up research corroborated, why an SSRI antidepressant like Paxil would generate a withdrawal syndrome. First, while this class of drugs artificially raises the amount of serotonin in the brain, the serotonergic system doesn't ignore the increase, but adjusts to and compensates for it, downregulating the number of 5-HT1A receptors because the drugs, altering serotonin levels, put them in less demand. At the same time, the serotonergic system needs more 5-HT2 receptors to soak up the excess of the messenger, a situation many studies have linked to patients' widespread complaints of sexual dysfunction, because those receptors send saturation signals to the brain. In 2002, in the International Journal of Neuropsychopharmacology, to invoke just one study, Adam Opbroek and his colleagues found that "80% of patients with SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction also describe clinically significant blunting of several emotions" (p. 147).

When patients try to end treatment, even stepping down their dose very gradually, many of them (22% to 78%, according to Rosenbaum and Fava) find that the receptors in their serotonergic system--saturated artificially for months, even years--experience the drop to predrug levels as starvation. Some patients then find themselves at the mercy of hair-trigger symptoms that register as intense anxiety, aggression, and insomnia.

Several receptors--including 5-HT1A--aren't especially malleable, moreover, and take longer to sprout anew after drug treatment ends, delaying the patient's return to neuronalhealth. Indeed, some studies I consulted found that in certain patients those receptors fail to grow back at all, in effect leaving the patients worse off than before. (See for instance "Dissociation of the Plasticity of 5-HT1A Sites and 5-HT Transporter Sites(link is external)" in Paxil Research Studies 19.3 [1994], 311-15.)"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201107/antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome

Endocrinology[edit]

5-HT_1A receptor activation induces the secretion of various hormones including cortisol, corticosterone, adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), oxytocin, prolactin, growth hormone, and β-endorphin.^{[56][57][58][59]} The receptor does not affect vasopressin or renin secretion, unlike the 5-HT₂ receptors.^[56][57] It has been suggested that oxytocin release may contribute to the prosocial, antiaggressive, and anxiolytic properties observed upon activation of the receptor.^[25] β-Endorphin secretion may contribute to antidepressant, anxiolytic, and analgesic effects.^[60]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT1A_receptor}

 

 

Alterations in serotonin parameters in brain of thiamine-deficient rats are evident prior to the appearance of neurological symptoms.

Mousseau DD1, Rao VL, Butterworth RF.

Author information

 

Abstract

Biochemical alterations of serotoninergic parameters have been demonstrated in experimental thiamine deficiency. In addition, hypophagia and hypothermia, two physiological processes associated with changes in the serotonin [5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT)] system, are manifest early during the progression of thiamine deficiency. The binding of selected 5-HT radioligands was therefore investigated in discrete brain regions of pyrithiamine-induced thiamine-deficient rats. Using quantitative receptor autoradiography, the binding of 8-hydroxy-2-(di-n-[3H]propylamino) tetralin, a ligand used to label the somatodendritic 5-HT1A autoreceptor of the dorsal raphe nucleus, was found to be unaffected in this region, suggesting that the structural integrity of the 5-HT cell bodies is maintained throughout the course of pyrithiamine treatment. Increased binding of [3H]-ketanserin was observed in regions considered vulnerable as well as in some considered to be nonvulnerable during the course of thiamine deficiency. These binding changes, which appear to represent changes in the density of the postsynaptic 5-HT2A receptor population rather than the "tetrabenazine-sensitive" vesicular monoamine transporter, are evident before the appearance of histopathologic lesions and coincide with altered tissue concentrations of 5-HT. These data suggest that 5-HT neurons, although structurally intact, are functionally affected early during the progression of thiamine deficiency. These alterations, which are likely a part of adaptive neuronal change consequent to thiamine dysfunction, may be important in the physiological manifestations and the learning deficits commonly encountered in experimental thiamine deficiency.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8752118

 

Enhanced head-twitch response to 5-HT-related agonists in thiamine-deficient mice.

Nakagawasai O1, Murata A, Arai Y, Ohba A, Wakui K, Mitazaki S, Niijima F, Tan-No K, Tadano T.

Author information

 

Abstract

While many studies suggest an involvement of brain serotonergic systems in neuro-psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia and depression, their role in Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome (WKS) remains unclear. Since dietary thiamine deficiency (TD) in mice is considered as a putative model of WKS, it was used in the present study to investigate the function of serotonergic neurons in this disorder. After 20 days of TD feeding, the intensity of tryptophan hydroxylase immunofluorescence was found to be significantly decreased in the dorsal and medial raphe nuclei. In addition, the head-twitch response (HTR) elicited by the intracerebroventricular administration of the 5-HT(2A) agonist 2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodoamphetamine hydrochloride (DOI) was significantly increased in TD versus control mice, whereas the injection of ketanserin, a 5-HT(2A) receptor antagonist, prevented this enhancement. A single injection of thiamine HCl on the 19th day of TD feeding did not reduce the enhanced DOI-induced HTR. On the other hand, the administration of d-fenfluramine, a 5-HT releaser, did not enhance the HTR in TD mice. Together, our results indicate that TD causes a super-sensitivity of 5-HT(2A) receptors by reducing presynaptic 5-HT synthesis derived from degenerating neurons projecting from the raphe nucleus.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17372673

 

  There is a bit in an old book here in this book titled 

 

Adaptive Capabilities of the Nervous System: Proceedings of the ..., Volume 53

https://books.google.ca/books?id=25z89JevHsgC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=thiamine+affect+on+5-HT1A+receptors&source=bl&ots=QajO7t3DXC&sig=BHR0PqLV_w69z6XuUC0dFpyj_Sw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBGoVChMI7N-CuNiMxgIVygiSCh0ZdgBp#v=onepage&q=thiamine%20%205-HT1A%20receptors&f=false

 

Lack of computer skills keep me from being able to post it but you can read it for yourself the study was done in 1977 early thiamine treatment seemed to heal the problem ... 5-HT fibers were more severely affected by thiamine deficiency - with some sparing of diffused branching system suggesting indolamine axons are more susceptible to thiamine deficiency than the non synaptic system. ... the last bit I copied word for word. 

 

If you go to this book read page 44... experimental demyelenation and remyelenation on lesions.. thiamine makes the list. 

 

 

 

 

[btdt]

The next place I am looking is this book 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=9vZ5DJ_NFDoC&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=thiamine+affect+on+5-HT1A+receptors&source=bl&ots=UEg2c_tQhn&sig=KBUvunruMmbQXt9xK8f12WKVjhE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEwQ6AEwB2oVChMI7N-CuNiMxgIVygiSCh0ZdgBp#v=onepage&q=thiamine&f=false

 

If you get there before I do tell me about it. 

peace

[btdt]

 Hi Btdt,   I'm pretty sure lecithin, has a lot of phosphatidyl choline , in it. Maybe , the natural form could be good. I've just ordered "sunflower lecithin", as I wanted to avoid "soy".  It's good for the brain.  Just a thought. I'll let you know how I go.  

I say where I read it but eggs ... was the only natural source... soy and I do not agree and i can't recall why.  I bought a huge bag of granular lecithin once as I was going to try it... after more research I chickened out and tossed it about a year later.  I keep turning yellow because of all the adverse affects I have had from vitamins and supplements. 

I have read at the other site how one lady a guru on supplements could not take certain ones in early wd but they helped her later in her wd.. I try to keep that in mind when I swallow stuff... I have this huge pill avoidance guard shack in my brain that I have to deal with every time I swallow a pill. It reminds me by washing me in dread... so I have to fight that off on a daily basis.... even tho there are not bad effects yet... unless being really irrational and bitchy last night was a side effect... on migraine days I can't be sure. 

 

I can say this I slept most of the day yesterday a dead sound sound sleep like I can't remember ... that was not drug induced... and maybe supplements are drug induced depending on how you look at it. I thought I would not sleep a wink tho I was up late I went to bed and slept another sound 5 solid hours... the fact that I had a dream again is a very big deal to me ... I can't recall it but could when I firs woke up. 

 

I did more reading on thiamine put some of it in a thread... 

the impression I am left with is I am not taking the best kind.. and fat would help the absorption maybe why the guy at the MCS site did not have any good findings with Thiamine until he added the phosphatidyl choline... 

 

Today I opened the phosphatidyl choline rock hard shell crushed the thiamine mixed both with a teaspoon of coconut oil.. and downed the lot.

This is day 7 of my experiment. I will keep you posted. 

[btdt]

 Hi Btdt,   I'm pretty sure lecithin, has a lot of phosphatidyl choline , in it. Maybe , the natural form could be good. I've just ordered "sunflower lecithin", as I wanted to avoid "soy".  It's good for the brain.  Just a thought. I'll let you know how I go.  

"lecithin, has a lot of phosphatidyl choline , in it."

 

You are rPhosphatidylcholine is a chemical contained in eggs, soybeans, mustard, sunflower, and other foods.

The term "phosphatidylcholine" is sometimes used interchangeably with "lecithin," although the two are different. Choline is a component of phosphatidylcholine, which is a component of lecithin. Although closely related, these terms are not the same.

 

Because the body uses phosphatidylcholine to make a brain chemical called acetylcholine, there is some interest in using it for treating “brain-centered” conditions such as memory loss, Alzheimer’s disease, anxiety, manic-depressive disorders, and a movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia.

"http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-501-phosphatidylcholine.aspx?activeingredientid=501&activeingredientname=phosphatidylcholine

 

 

at the bottom of the page is this bit about liver fibrosis.. I already have it bit late but I also have fatty liver.. this helps get rid of fat...

 

"A certain form of phosphatidylcholine (polyunsaturated phosphatidylcholine) might provide protection against liver fibrosis and liver damage caused by drinking alcohol, although the exact mechanisms are not completely understood."

 

Healthcare providers sometimes give phosphatidylcholine intravenously (by IV) forchest pain, fat globules in the blood (fat embolism), high cholesterol, liver disease, and fatty plaque deposits in arteries.

Phosphatidylcholine is injected under the skin (subcutaneously) for treating non-cancerous fatty tumors (lipomas), excess fat around the eyelids, and yellowishcholesterol deposits just under the surface of the skin (xanthelasmas).

 

I would still prefer a food source.. somehow I feel I am kind of past that point and I need to do something more now.. I can always do the food sources plus the supplement.  

peace

[btdt]

I cannot visualise either - it's strange because I can remember sometimes how things felt but just cannot reach that place.

 

I hope you see some improvement. I'm watching with hope.

 

I know it is a long shot but I don't have a lot to lose by trying a reaction ya... I don't want one and am likely hyper-vigilant  in looking watching for it... things that affect the brain can also affect our awareness about such things as I have learned with effexor... so trying to do a double take on it and will do a challenge... of stopping and restarting to see what happens... This is what I have thought at this point but it is so early I may never get to that point. Inch by inch is how this is going to go... tho I have blown all my own advice about one supplement at a time already and 1/6th the dose... seems I am in risk taking mode... that in itself is a bit scary but I am mustering all my courage to give it a go.

 

Time will tell.

peace 

[btdt]

as for choline

World's Healthiest Foods rich in
choline

FoodCalsDRI/DV

 

 Shrimp13536%

 

 Eggs7835%

 

 Scallops12630%

 

 Chicken18723%

 

 Turkey16722%

 

 Tuna14721%

 

 Cod9621%

 

 Salmon15819%

 

 Beef17517%

 

 Collard Greens6317%

 

 

Tuna was a go to food for me too same time as the All Bran... once when I had a commitment I was not going to make I stopped bought a tuna sub it fixed me up I went on my way.  Like a drug... other food things. 

I am making a list. 

 

Stage one early withdrawal

Water lots of water as soon as I got up 4 cups.. room temp known as water therapy

All Bran

Tuna

Beets 

Electorlyte replacement drink for babies

Boiled veggies carrot ect

Chicken broth

 

Stage 2

All bran was a mainstay did not leave home without it  

all on the list above plus

Warm lemon and water 

A tea liptons red tea with Acia berry... they don't make it any longer and nothing works the same I have tried other acia products to no avail and red tea..nope 

Green beans broccoli asparagus brussel sprouts ate one of these at lest once a day.

 

Stage 3 

diet time I went on a mission to heal my liver lost 20 pounds first month 

no sugar no flour no diary ... except butter only hard butter in the fridge as the diet stated warm butter was oxidized butter and not good for you

salad .. artichoke .. eggs... (gag but I ate them..) ryevita crunchy bread a lot of soup with home made stock a multitude of veggies and tons of kale and dandelion  plus juicing all sorts of concoctions from the diet book on healing the liver... it was around this time I found taurine tried it to prevent migraines so I did not have to take mirgraine pills that further damage my liver... I did not think it worked but accidentally learned it took away the too much coffee feeling.. I used 1/4 capsule upped it in an hour if needed... Alto said too much made her hyper so I am very careful not to use it too much or too often I still use the 1/4 capsule when I need it... no sense using more than you need remember feed back mechanisms in our body .. what we put in can back fire.. as the body adapts ... 

 

fingers crossed on no back fire... this time. 

 

I am back to my old way of eating post accident.. even worse for a long time whatever I could get as I could not shop or cook... a lot of frozen foods fast food and crap... have made a come back part way now we are back to me shopping and hating it and cooking and hating it... cause everything hurts ... not like before the accident at all... but inch by inch again. Maybe hate is too strong a word I am feeling dramatic today I guess...  I use to enjoy it I don't now. Not even close. 

peace

[AliG]

  All Bran ?? It has P/C ?

[btdt]

I don't know if phosphtidyl choline is the same as choline I don't think it is. Still choline is good for your liver .. I recall that much. 

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/other-nutrients/choline

 

"

Summary

• Choline is a vitamin-like essential nutrient and a methyl donor involved in many physiological processes, including normal metabolism and transport of lipids, methylation reactions, and neurotransmittersynthesis. (More information)
• Choline deficiency causes muscle damage and abnormal deposition of fat in the liver, which results in a condition called nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. Genetic predispositions and gender can influence individual variation in choline requirements and thus the susceptibility to choline deficiency-induced fatty liver disease. (More information)
• The recommended adequate intake (AI) of choline is set at 425 milligrams (mg)/day for women and 550 mg/day for men. (More information)
• Choline is involved in the regulation of homocysteine concentration in the blood through its metabolite betaine. There is currently no convincing evidence that high choline intakes could benefitcardiovascular health through lowering blood homocysteine. Besides, elevated blood concentrations of trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO), generated from choline, may increase the risk of cardiovascular events.(More information)" 
•  

Deficiency Symptoms

Men and women fed intravenously (IV) with solutions that contained adequate methionine and folate but lacked choline have been found to develop a condition called nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) and signs of liver damage that resolved when choline was provided (11). The occurrence of NAFLD is usually associated with the co-presentation of metabolic disorders, including obesity, dyslipidemia, insulin resistance, and hypertension, in subjects with metabolic syndrome. NAFLD is estimated to progress to a more severe condition called nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) in about one-third of NAFLD patients, as well as to increase the risk of cirrhosis and liver cancer (12). 

Because phosphatidylcholine is required in the synthesis of very-low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) particles (see Function), choline deficiency results in impaired VLDL secretion and accumulation of fat in the liver (steatosis), ultimately leading to liver damage. "

 

"Choline is involved in the regulation of homocysteine concentration in the blood through its metabolite betaine"

Hey wait a minute here... betaine that is beets.. we have come full circle or at least in a circle back to beets.

I double checked 

 

Six Amazing Health Benefits of Eating Beets - Mercola

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/.../beets-health-benefits.aspx

•  
•  

Jan 25, 2014 - Beets are a unique source of betaine, a nutrient that helps protects cells, proteins, and enzymes from environmental stress. It's also known to  .

 

No I did not miss this:  I looked at the more information part but never studied chemistry to so I don't understand it. 

neurotransmittersynthesis. 

[btdt]

  All Bran ?? It has P/C ?

All Bran the stick original had a higher amount of thiamine then the All Brand Bud... I thought I could use them both interchange them that way I could add a crunch to other foods .. and I was tired of the sticks.. 

 

it was a fail so I compared the ingredients apparently further processing of the buds takes away some of the thiamine other nutrients were affected too but I settled on thiamine as it was lowered the most.. 

 

Then I found the post on the  chemical sensitivities web site about the blood brain barrier being damaged in people who have this and thiamine could possibly help repair the bbb... then a further post from a man who said he had no results with just thiamine but had a noticeable difference when he added the phosphatidyl choline. (I have  posted links to all this in my thread not too far back if you want to see)

 

This is the path that got me here... after I read that I went back and looked at a post I made about the All Bran cereal... since it kept me more sane in mid wd... I was more apt to believe he was maybe right.. and here I am. 

[AliG]

  I'll have to look into this some more , tomorrow.  All a bit much tonight. Interesting, though.  I enjoy your research, BTDT.

[btdt]

I now forget what homeo cystine does and I know I know... so  beets helps lower it cause of the betaine. 

 

So the hints my body was giving seem to fall in line.. 

Acai maybe what put me into a good place for a time as I drank that liptons red tea with acai by the case it was like a tonic to me... when the stopped selling it I was very sad... for a time I had a crew of people looking for it in their local walmart in different cities but eventually it all dried up..

 

Here is a link about Acai berries 

http://www.rivertea.com/blog/12-amazing-health-benefits-of-acai-berry-tea/

"Acai berry herbal tea helps the body absorb more nutrients by contributing to the removal of toxins from tissues and blood flow. Moreover, being loaded with vitamins and minerals – such as vitamin A, C, B1, B2, B3 and E, it enhances the overall health state and revitalizes the body."

Thiamine again... yes I know it is in many things but many things did not help me this really did. 

 

 

Improves mental sharpness

Besides supporting the functioning of the nervous system through their high amounts of nutrients, acai berry fruits also provide a compound called pterostilbene, which was found to reverse the effects of aging on brain’s functioning and to improve mental alertness. Also, the tea obtained from these fruits is known to reduce physical and mental fatigue.

Pterostilbene is a stilbenoid chemically related to resveratrol. It has phytoalexin activity.^[1] Based on animal studies it is thought to exhibit anti-cancer, anti-hypercholesterolemia, anti-hypertriglyceridemia properties, as well as the ability to fight off and reverse cognitive decline. It is believed that the compound also has anti-diabetic properties, but so far very little has been studied on this issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterostilbene

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilbenoid

An example of a stilbenoid is resveratrol, which is found in grapes and which has been suggested to have many health benefits -also obviously in Acai berries 

 

phytochemicals in food all the reactions bad and good may have more causes than histamine who knows... I really like this link..and think it will be useful

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_phytochemicals_in_food 

[AliG]

 Acai berries, sounds interesting. Homocysteine, can cause heart attacks , stroke  and blood clots. ( Or the lack of).    Not sure which. ??  Will look into , tomorrow.

[btdt]

Beets lowers Homocysteine so apparently does this product. 

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-TMG-Trimethylglycine-500-mg-120-Tablets/141

 

not sue about that 

this article looks good 

http://www.robertbarrington.net/lowering-homocysteine/

[btdt]

Today I added 250mg of sub lingual B12   

 

thinking acilla.. garlic.. oil.. paths of detox... on my mind