btdt: introducing myself

[btdt]

been in bed today being here is one of the few things I will apply myself too or so it seems but I am going to pull myself up and have a shower any minute now before people get home from work... I AM! 

 

I am having some trouble overcoming the prednisone reaction but we all know Time is the winner Time and beets I am going to eat some beets tongiht 

peace

[btdt]

A few reasons a lot of antibiotics this year and last that don't seem to kill whatever it is.

 

This one but maybe not his strain has been shown to kill bacteria that antibiotics can't kill... one thing I read said in the future it will be used as an antibiotic... it not only helps digestion as in the runs and constipation but heals the mucous lining of the gut... it helps kill bad bacteria that cause cavities in the mouth and is used in lozenger form to do that alone... it has been shown to reduce hepatic encephalitis... reduce amonia when the liver can't do the job right... to get rid of amonia. 

 

There is no testing of most probiotic this one is tested so show what is says is actually in the bottle because it is sold as an infant supplement all things sold in Europe for kids must be tested so it is tested... it is one strain... only... so I know exactly what I am getting.  It is safe for infants so likely safe for me... odd are good. 

The company that makes it is respectable and large has a patent on this one and a few others. 

 

I was looking at safety... effectiveness - and what my own personal issue are and how it may help them. It costs about 40 Canadian dollars and at 5 drops a day would last a long time. 

 

I have a few issues with it... going to bed every day I can't do and get to things I need to have done... odd feeling in my throat and woman parts I am not sure is cool... I do not want to be completely dependent on anything I am testing it ...what it is like on it what is it like off it... ect... I am a touchy touchy person... going on coming off things... all sorts of things even foods bugs me... I wan't to know before I get in over my head... I am super cautious. I am that way because I have learned the hardest way to be like this. 

 

I want to do more research on it and herx reaction before I try it again and I am hoping my thinking holds in the mean time... other than getting on the wrong bus and having some major anxiety about that... not too bad... not great either but not bad.  I have bad moments but I don't have good moments till after I used this... then I had a good moment or a few... for a bit.  

 

I don't know enough about it yet that is one test I did ... I will do more... much more reading should my head turn funny on me again like it was and I can't breath like I was and my bp goes wonky like it was .... I will take it again without further learning ...if not I want to know more. 

 

That is about it JD

Took 3 drops of bio gaia today.  

10 mg of pariet... puffers flovent salbutamol rhinocort.. that is my list still coughing stomach was a complete mess yesterday ... yesterday took 4 accidophilous type probiotics mixed with apple sauce for the pectin... worked before adviced this by a doctor long ago... 

still sleeping a lot.... 

3 drops in the past has been my sweet spot I will let you know tho with so many things and still feel prednisone buzzing it is hard to say for sure what is what... 

still I have been on the other things a while the nasal spray and puffers a month the stomach pill a wk... not working yet so now bio gaia again. 

peace all

 

ps small amount of ground magnesium citrate 

[btdt]

Thank you Direstraits hugs are good something has to give as things can't keep going like they are... I must have said that a million times in the last 10 years. 

 

I just goes to show how strong and long lasting the drug effects are I am not saying the drug in affecting me 7 years later I am saying I am changed still 7 years later it has not healed I am still vulnerable to any sort of drug that affects the brain.  I need to remain forever vigilant to drug reactions. If the past very serious reaction were not enough to teach me a good solid lesson I get these small reminders.  

 

Three days of 3 days of 20mg of prednisone I no longer knew how to drive a car by the third day and I quit.. first day I slept I was sick.. second I knew it was not good for me... 3rd big trouble and out. That was April1st... so April 3rd I did not know how to drive suddenly.  

 

Then the rash from what I still don't know... and the benadryl now the fallout which may last for months.... or not. 

 

We can call it withdrawal if we want but I am only using that term from her on in because of a lack of better understanding as withdrawal means I am trying to get a drug out of my body and recover from the affects of it... at 7 years off I don't think the word applies any longer.  Post withdrawal affect could be used but what it is specifically has yet to be identified beyond the term protracted wd which I don't think applies exactly either. 

 

This is my life the only one I get... I will keep you posted. 

 

Today I was reading on this site. 

https://truthman30.wordpress.com/page/25/?archives-list&archives-type=cats

 

Here is a quote from a person who sounds a bit like me. 

"Nine years after he began withdrawal, Henry estimates he is only 80 per cent better and has just returned to work.

"“Last year, a psychiatrist told me it’s unlikely I ever had depression at all, I was just run down and needed rest. Because I innocently accepted my GP’s diagnosis, I’ve lost 20 years of my life,” he says."  

 

in my case I did was not given the drugs for depression I had a pain in my leg. 

He does not use his real name as he is suing... how he managed that I sure would like to know. 

 

I guess this is how it goes for some of us.

 

It is good to see that even at 9 years he is now rebounding not just rotting away after 7 till this point 7 was the year I had been shooting for as the guy who owns antidepressantfacts.com said it took him 7 years to recover.

 

So now what move it to 9 .. 10 11 what... 18 years drugged now add 9... 27 years.  

 

If I did not think the worst was behind me if I had not made it thru those first years of shear hell I would almost be tempted to throw in the towel..not really... there is no towel just my life still or the promise of one...

 

27 years is a long time more than I would get for first degree murder in my country.  

Last dance with prednisone and cefprozil I had a rash and took benadryl... early warning of the anaphallatic reaction this time perhaps no suggestion was made by my doc that it could be from the antibiotic I sure did not think of it. 

 

I wrote this 6 wks after that reaction 

"Three days of 3 days of 20mg of prednisone I no longer knew how to drive a car by the third day and I quit.. first day I slept I was sick.. second I knew it was not good for me... 3rd big trouble and out. That was April1st... so April 3rd I did not know how to drive suddenly"

 

So I will stop waiting for this to be done soon and resign myself to at least mid January will be six wks.... to be more like myself tho this time around I took much more benadryl and more prednisone. Hoping for a 6 wk reaction better then 12  

 

I wrote last time I was on pred I had the urge to split head open with an axe... so I stayed in my room had crazy spell too last time... 

 

it is all back this time I made a specticle of myself in a few places by throwing fits I was right out of it and should have been home yet was trying to get food and make appointments already scheduled... stupid is as stupid does.  

We can't expect people in reaction to make good decisions... or behave right... so I have now NOTICED at the time I was unaware I was out of line... 

 

Now that I know I have to watch my reactions I am much less likely to react ... I don't have this awareness when I am on pred or when I firs stop taking it it takes time to develop... sadly. I have made some amends others will not happen cause I don't have the energy and don't care.... 

will say the bad acting is in play and I have spent the last wk talking to myself to keep more stable... when I find I need verbal cues to manage my day even if they are from my own voice it is a sign I am on the edge ... it has been with me a long time since effexor days when I need to talk myself thru tasks it is a warning... do self care. 

peace all 

[btdt]

I have added Ensure to my diet and feel better guess I was not getting what I need from my food. I have been thinking further probiotic use have taken my normal acidophiles bio gaia .. researching others. I did try florastor years ago when all this became an issue and found it caused me problems I took only one pill...on researching forastor I learned this is apt to happen if you have a compromised immune system I am finding the same is true of bio gaia " Contraindications: Do not use if you are experiencing nausea, fever, bloody diarrhea or severe abdominal pain. Do not use if you have an immune compromised condition (e.g. AIDS, lymphoma, patients undergoing long-term corticosteroid treatment)."

 

I have Fibro as the only possible immune issue and I am not sure if they have decided to classify fibro as immune related... I have had it 30 years on reading back then they didn't I am not up to date. 

 

Having a rather miserable time of it bad enough to toy with a doc visit... just now I am trying to decide if I would go to the doc now to try to be well for Christmas or am I at the point where I need intervention... would it seem as dire if it were not the season of JOY ?  I have lived thru worse at home but was able to hide away and toy with my healing waiting for things to come back onboard I don't have the freedom to do that during the holidays.  

 

Either way I have one more day to think about it as my doc is not in today.

peace all

[Meimeiquest]

Hi BTDT,

 

Just reading one of your other threads where you talk about intermittent black stools. If you decide to see a doctor, you probably know that is an important symptom? Sometimes it is caused by bleeding in the GI tract...or not....you, my dear, are quite the medical mystery! I hope you are feeling better soon, one way or the other!

[btdt]

I had the black stools this time when I was on prednisone had green and white too... there's some more for you mystery stance

Clostridium difficile is what is suspected but I am prone to colitis reactions to antibiotics. 

The first fun in I had with this was in wd... the doc then said probiotics 3 capsules 3x a day for 30 days it worked. So I don't waste any time getting probiotics into me once this starts the last few times I had the antibiotic I just reacted to I had a colitis reaction... my doc tested me then for C dif too of course I was not waiting to see her before I started my probiotic treatment. 

I am not waiting this time either full force all I know is being applied to get this over and done with. 

 

I don't like how you using the term medical mystery...take antibiotics get C Dif... no mysterious at all... I have been on and off this same drug 5-6 times in the last few years each time it wrecks my gut....

 

 I have seen my doctor I have seen several I always do.  I also know that using pepto to treat stomach upset can cause black stools I have not used any this time but have in the past... I had a stomach bleed when I was on effexor I am well aware of the implications of black stool and what it all means. 

 

I am hoping I am not out of line cause I may be as I have been acting poorly of late due to prednisone and I may still be in an ugly mood from that ... a don't poke the bear mood. It could be me. 

 

I am feeling better some what not perfect but better. I am going to try to hold it together and be as well as I can for this season for my families sake then I will deal with me again... later.

peace all

[btdt]

I am thinking the gut problem is drug induced colitis I had it last time I was on this drug... it goes away in time hoping I a right as I certainly do not need any neuro toxic metronodazol.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi btdt, 

 

I'm wondering if you could give me a quick synopsis of your experience CTing off Effexor, such as what were the hardest symptoms to deal with, when the waves hit, how the windows and waves developed over the years, and would you say that it is over or are there still troubling repercussions emotionally?  I know you've been dealing with other health issues, the hernias, and allergies though I guess those could still be withdrawal, eh?  I've heard of people using Quercetin for histamine problems, BTW.

 

Since I was in withdrawal for 10 months before throwing in the towel and reinstating Effexor, I was just curious how you are traveling these days :-)  I didn't realize I was in wd and had such horrific depression, anxiety and insomnia, I thought I had truly lost it and yes, felt suicidal.  Had I known what was happening to me, I might have been able to stick it out.  Just wondering how it might have gone if I had.  Now down to 27.75 mg, but also on 14.3 mg mirtazapine, dang it!

 

I hope all goes well for you with the hernias and other issues!

 

SG

[btdt]

Hi btdt, 

 

I'm wondering if you could give me a quick synopsis of your experience CTing off Effexor, such as what were the hardest symptoms to deal with, when the waves hit, how the windows and waves developed over the years, and would you say that it is over or are there still troubling repercussions emotionally?  I know you've been dealing with other health issues, the hernias, and allergies though I guess those could still be withdrawal, eh?  I've heard of people using Quercetin for histamine problems, BTW.

 

Since I was in withdrawal for 10 months before throwing in the towel and reinstating Effexor, I was just curious how you are traveling these days :-)  I didn't realize I was in wd and had such horrific depression, anxiety and insomnia, I thought I had truly lost it and yes, felt suicidal.  Had I known what was happening to me, I might have been able to stick it out.  Just wondering how it might have gone if I had.  Now down to 27.75 mg, but also on 14.3 mg mirtazapine, dang it!

 

I hope all goes well for you with the hernias and other issues!

 

SG

Nobody knew about wd so don't blame yourself learn as much as you can know while your stable and thinking well I hope you are stable and thinking well... and make notes for any future attempts to get off ... cause later you may not be able to find things you need. 

Since you were drugged a long time before going down "Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg but back down to 37.5 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down"  

Why did you drop down?  Was it the doctors idea?

It seems to me there is such a thing as tolerance where your still taking the drug but it is not working as your body has adjusted to the drug and wd symptoms start while your still drugged... they did for me. Not sure why you went down but it may have been tolerance. 

Cold turkey was horrendous and it was not my idea... but a neurologist who took me off E cause of neurological symptoms...foot dragging and head drops.  Once off I could not go back on or tolerate any of the drugs he tried me on.  I was trapped.

 

I will ad more later I have to run.

peace

[SquirrellyGirl]

Thanks for your reply, btdt!

 

Why did I go down?  Well, I didn't like having to be on a drug to begin with; I'd been on Prozac and then Wellbutrin and neither ever provided the "happiness" that I thought would come on these meds LOL!  So, I had gone way up but again never found it to be the answer and went through the "I don't want to have to be on these drugs" phase.  My memory is horrid for those years, but I do remember my psychiatrist going over how to taper off because even then it was known that you couldn't just stop, or at least she knew.  Of course, her taper was about as fast as any of them have you do.

 

I think in hindsight that I must have started feeling bad as I began to taper and so resigned myself that I'd just have to be on it, but didn't go back up.  I'd stopped seeing the psychiatrist and was having my GP renew.   So, took things in my own hands as it were, no input from a head doc.   And then the sexual side effects were ongoing and so I probably decided once again to try to get off, followed by feeling bad and holding at that next lowest increment.  

 

So, all of my tapering down was done under my own power, such as it was.

 

Summer of 2014 I got shingles, and lucky me, they were on my lady parts and made sex sooo painful, and I finally came to the conclusion that life was short and I was fed up with not even liking sex because it was so HARD, had to work my ass off to get any pleasure, and that Effexor had to be the reason (still wasn't sure, what a laugh) and so that's when I decided to come off totally and did so in a very haphazard, uneducated way. 

 

And here I am!  Weird thing was, while in withdrawal, my sex drive or interest began to improve, but I was even more like dead wood below (PSSD).  Now that I am back on, the interest is gone but the feeling is marginally better.   Now that I'm below 37.5 mg I am hoping that things will begin to get better in that department.

 

SG

[btdt]

I hope your right and things continue to improve in all departments.  Good Luck and peace to you

[btdt]

Today I was reading Petus page and noticed she hit a bad spot around the 18 month mark... I did too and was at pp at the time I was chastised for talking about it so other people did not talk in the  board but some pm me saying they had a bad turn at about the same time.  I thought I started a thread here about it but can't find it I may have done it at another site.  If this is a pattern in healing for some of us maybe it has some significance or is a marker of some sort for what is to come...or is just a part of a normal larger theme like the circadian  rhythm... we don't know all the secrets of the body yet it could be.  I think it does happen too much to have not significance at all.  I did a search around the 18 month mark following is what I have found. 

I put it in my own thread as it is supposedly ok to put anything you want in your own thread... if any mod things it is worth moving to its own thread by all means put it where it will do the most good peace all. 

 

http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/08/ssri-discontinuation-is-even-more-problematic-than-acknowledged/

angon May 31, 2015 at 10:39 pm said:

Are you sure surgery is needed? SSRIs mess up everything, (especially digestion and the gut)…it is not until you are off them that the body recovers naturally. I had many ailments, including failing liver stage 3a kidney disease. High blood pressure, high cholesterol, overweight…… All went arter 18 months off effexor. Effexor is a terrible one for physical illness……… can the surgery wait for a year or two?

http://antidepressantwithdrawal.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-1227.html?s=7008dfc7ccf6501b5151b9b75fa278ec

 

It seemed almost easier in the first few months as I was utterly convinced I could fight through it and it would end in a few months. How do you wrap your head round the fact that this will most likely still be happening in 3 months time? This is me for the foreseeable future? It's so hard.
I also hate the fact that I'm wishing my life away. Thinking oh if i can make it to 18 months off things will get better, at 2 years i'm sure I'll be ok, 3 years this will be a distant me. ory. And what do you do if you get to these points and nothing has changed? you're still in horrible waves and noone has a clue what you're talking about when you tell them what's wrong

 

http://rxisk.org/withdrawal-research-forum-relief-at-last/

Fiona French says:

November 29, 2015 at 3:06 pm

I took nitrazepam for 40 years for myoclonic epilepsy. I also took antidepressants for almost 40 years (tricyclics, MAOIs, SSRIs, SNRIs), most recently effexor for 15 years. Tapered off 5 mg nitrazepam for three months. Six months delayed reaction before going into acute withdrawal. Two years bedridden. Loss of sensations from the waist down, partly incontinent, cognitive functions terrible. Could hardly lift head off the pillow. At 18 months off, I was able to sit up without head supported by pillows or cushions. At 24 months off, I could walk for short distances outside. At 30 months my cognitive functions were good but physical functioning deteriorated. At 32 months I remain in bed waiting for physical functioning to returen. At about one year I realised I was no longer depressed. I could feel my emotions, I did not feel alone as I had done for 40 years. I have had no anxiety, no depression despite the terrible physical symptoms I have endured (head pressure, nerve pain, brain squeezes). At no time did a doctor realise nitrazepam was making me ill. I no longer have myoclonic epilepsy the reason for the drug in the first place. I tapered off effexor 225 mg during the past two years and had no adverse reaction at all. All my symptoms have been caused by benzodiazepine withdrawal. My GP and psychiatrist said it could not possibly be benzo withdrawal because of the six month time delay before acute symptoms set in. I have lost four decades of my life to that drug. I am so very angry.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=133421.0

Need advice please

« on: May 07, 2015, 03:53:29 pm »

 

Hello all. I desperately need some advice here. I am 20 months off a ct 3 mg Klonopin and 18 months off a ct of Zoloft 200 mg. I am not healed. I have incredible rage episodes that are impossible to pull myself out of most of the time. I snap at people and I'm going to lose everyone near to me ...that's like one person now  My Dr. has prescribed me seroquil and remeron, which I was scared to take. But now I'm really thinking that I need it before this freaking rage ruins whats left of my life. I have improved in so many ways but this rage is just killing me. please help.

Not liking the reply... but whatever.

It is time you consider that this may not be long term protracted withdrawal -- but it is the underlying mood disprder you were originally prescribed klonopin and Zoloft for.

boo to that we know better.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1634-nootropics-for-withdrawal/

I am in very very bad shape. Over 18months out and there is no question I have am suffering from SSRI induced brain damage. I have severe cognitive defects, dizziness, major fatigue even walking is tough some times, anhedonia, pssd, Major sick feeling that I just cannot describe, Feel stoned. I am in very bad shape and am contemplating whether life is really worth living in this state. I don't like my chances of a full recovery since there are practically none that I have seen with folks who are this ill this far out.

I am exactly 18 months off the nasty Effexor;better, but still pretty much in the woods and struggling.

Very encouraging post nn123.

Thank you!

I was in an extremely bad shape at the 18 months mark, in fact it was one of the worst waves and I was about to start some drug (my GP had prescribed my Lexapro) because I felt absolutely no recovery and was almost unable to function.

 

A first real window opened at about 20 months, totally uncomparable with the horrific period before. Though nasty waves were still ahead, after this window I choose to hang on and not touch any drugs. Bad waves were yet to come but there is recovery and no 6 years out I feel pretty close to recovered, except for some still nasty residual symptoms which I expect to clear up in the longer run,.

GiaK

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

I was still homebound at 18 months and most of the time was still in bed as well...my illness was still acute...

 

today 4 years out I'm getting better all the time...it's still slow going but improvement is undeniable and unrelenting as well...even if still up and down and nonlinear 

 

18 months is early in protracted cases...and it certainly doesn't mean you won't get well

 

My comment about myself on this thread

In my gut I think your right there is some damage done.  That is not saying this drug will fix it and at 18 months I had a window then took a nose dive. If you are going to do this my only suggestion is to start very very very low.....and wait. If you can find somebody with medical knowledge to keep an eye on things even blood work that would be a good idea. 

I have tried so many thing I hoped would work in the beginning all the drugs the neurologist suggested then vitamins supplements ect... I am just doubtful or maybe just wore out from the process. Hard to say which. Good luck whatever you do

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1746-stillwithdrawing-post-acute-withdrawal/

Hi everyone -

 

I'm back on here (thought I was scott free!) with a bad relapse. 18 months off of the last drug - i was on 12 over the years - and feeling awful this week. I am extremely lucky to have gotten some relief. And then BOOM - it's back.

 

I tried a micro dose of a benzo (this is not a recommendation) which resolves the fatigue and pain almost immediately. Has anyone else heard of this? Clearly, I'm not a fan of benzos and was at one point on a high damaging dose. But, I'm tempted to consider going back on a micro-dose. 

 

I don't feel like it's really a solution for me since I'm 35. But this is just so awful. Feel like I'm in chemo 

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5977-chemistry-new-member-looking-for-hope/

I'm going through a rough period. I'm turning 18 years old, about 18 months off. My symptoms have been progressively getting worse for about a year or so now with better periods every once in a while, although the better periods seem to get worse and worse. Its completely non-linear though but instead of getting better overall, it feels like i've only gotten worse over time. 

The main symptoms i'm worried about is the anhedonia/emotional bluntedness mixed with the PSSD, genital changes, etc.

 

Rhiannon

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http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7997-dizziness-vertigo-lightheaded-etc/page-3

 

 

Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:02 AM

Well let me repeat, I'm not making this up, it's really normal for people to be feeling either still bad or even worse at 18 months out. In fact that's often kind of a crisis time for people. I don't know why but I suspect it has something to do with the way the brain heals.

[btdt]

page address is above I screwed up Petu and don't know how to fix it

 

Ew. This is the kind of dizziness you get too? It's rare for me but lately with the return of this kind of head wave for me, I've been getting episodes of this. Even half of it happening. Feeling like my balance and sight and brain are unstable ( hard to explain) but not quite having the room spinning deal. Yes, I had SEVERE brain zaps for almost 2 years after I stopped taking omega 3's around 18 months off ( for sone reason they never bothered me) Omegas completely warded off my brain zaps. Funnily I woke up one morning with tones of brain zaps again last week. It's been at least 6-8 months since I've had any. Iquit, yes, I've actually been telling someone that it almost feels like this sitting dizzy episode I get is a new kind of brain zap. It almost feels like a slow motion kind. Like my zaps have morphed / mutated into a new version. I am also getting the types of brain zaps when I move my eyes. It almost feels like sometimes when I move my eyes, they stutter. Have you ever touched your tongue to a battery? That's EXACTLY how my brain zaps have always felt. I think these dizzy things feel like I'm going to pass out or fall over though. The zaps never made me feel that way. They just feel like a quick pause. If that makes sense. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7503-bipolar-mania-hypomania-depression-or-drug-effects/

Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:36 AM

Im 18 months off now, I need to update that in the signature, just the time off because all the symptoms are still present and actually worsened. Yes I have alot of burning, neuropathy like burning and brain burning...and alot of flu like symptoms.

The pain is excruciating, to the point I start cring. sometimes I doubt it is wd related because it is so severe but I never had any pain in my life until i stopped those meds, started with pins and needles in my ankles after like 1 month off and turned into this beast. Every months brought new areas of pain...this month the ribcage. Now everything hurts from head to toe. Im 18 months off and seems the wd it hasnt even reached its peak. Actually its not wd...that ends in a few weeks...its the messed up chemistry thats left.

I doubt it is fibro, maybe fibro like. Just mimics it. Same with neuropathy...it feels exactly the same but if you do some testing the results will be okay. IF it is due to wd then it shouldn't be permanent by any means. Tried alot of supplements for the pain but none worked. Probably when the brain will be more in balance the pain will diminish too.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6698-uncontrollable-crying-spells-during-and-after-withdrawal/

@Lulia, no one knows, it is different for everyone. I am 18 months off, took them the same amount of time as you and still and got them along with many other symptoms(see my signature), some got ride of them after a few months some have them a much longer period of time. And 4 months off seems an eternity because you suffer but it really isn't a long time since you took Paxil for 9 YEARS ! 9 years of modified brain chemistry isn't going to fix so quit.

Paxil is especially known to cause long withdrawals, even wiki says up to 18 months in some cases. Just try to hold on an go on with your life as much as you can.

 

" Most cases of discontinuation syndrome last between one and four weeks, are relatively mild, and resolve on their own; in rare cases symptoms can be severe or extended.^[1] Paroxetine (Paxil) and venlafaxine (Effexor) seem to be particularly difficult to discontinue and prolonged withdrawal syndrome lasting over 18 months have been reported with paroxetine.^[5][6][7] "

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10924-poozle-21-months-off-lexapro-why-am-i-getting-worse/

PATTERNS

Over the course of my withdrawal, I’ve become aware of the patterns of this condition. I have always had windows and waves. From reading peoples’ accounts, it seems this might be a good thing. (My heart goes out to those who don’t experience them at all. You’ll all so incredibly strong. I mean it.) They aren’t predictable by any stretch but a typical wave involves a bad day followed by a slightly less bad (not necessarily window though) day followed by a bad day, and repeating this every-other-day pattern over a period of time until the wave is over. On a larger scale, the wave periods themselves will usually last 1-3 weeks, falling in between windows (or just periods of feeling less terrible). On a macro level, this had happened like clockwork in six month intervals for 18 months. In a sense, five bad months would be followed by 2-3 weeks of a window, and then everything would reset and start over in a terrible 3+ week wave. I’ve seen mention, or maybe just theories from people about up-regulating or down-regulating or something that tends to happen in six month intervals, but I don’t understand the science of this condition well enough to comment except to say it’s been uncanny how well timed it has been. Or used to be.


BUT THINGS HAVE GOTTEN WORSE
But this latest wave, the one that’s finally driven me out of the shadows has me in a bad bad way. It’s the worst extended period I’ve had since this all started, which is saying something considering how hard it’s already been. Gone are the predictable every-other-day patterns of withdrawal, replaced by wave after wave of crying and panic attacks. I haven’t cried like this since I started the drug. I remember that being unrelenting too, but at least I could make sense of it since I had just started. I’m so far into the recovery process now, and it just doesn’t make sense to me that things have turned downward so drastically. People often talk of symptoms abating as time goes on, but it doesn’t seem to be the case with me. A window seems so far away.

 

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10330-thoughttree-staying-positive-six-months-off-lexapro/

Although not everyone gets them there are often waves of symptoms that happen at around the intervals that you mentioned (6, 12, 18 months).  Although they can be intense at times, in general those waves are short lived and end with marked improvements.

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10596-nadia-5-years-off-i-survived-antidepressants/

Posted 02 December 2015 - 12:43 PM

Really good to hear about your success Nadia.  After 18 months off Paxil I have hit a prolonged wave that won't go away, and haven't slept properly for weeks.   Glad to gain encouragement that these feelings will pass.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9341-divalee-24-months-off-zoloft/page-2

So here I am 25 months off - in the beginning they were not so bad - but starting around the 8 or 9th month off - the symptoms got worse and worse - a few windows, but not many....now since 18 months off I have had no windows and am literally In hell with the symptoms way out of control.  Depression has now set it too.

 

I have read in other forms that at this stage of the game it can get worse before it gets better - but when you have this day after day with no let up - one wonders....

 

 

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 04:47 AM

Not very well at all Divalee , i stii cant get round the fact that i was fine for the first year and then the odd symtom appeared but wasnt much untill about 18 months after and then two years after i feel awful from then hardly a window at all , tbh i find it hard to beleive its WD but all the symtoms seem to be there , takecare Divalee thinking of you 

[Muddles]

Scares me. I'm 15 months off. I pray I won't get any worse than what I already am.

 

I wonder why this happens?

[Muddles]

I've sent you a PM.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Scares me. I'm 15 months off. I pray I won't get any worse than what I already am.

 

I wonder why this happens?

Unchartered waters, really, so who knows the answer to that!  There are so many feedback loops in biochemistry, with everything working in harmony in an un-drugged system, but I wonder if certain pathways are slower to recover than others, or get more damaged than others and so imbalances remain here and there that affect the whole. Good nutrition is I"m sure key.  Have you had chemistries done to see where hormones, D and the like are at?

 

SG

[btdt]

Scares me. I'm 15 months off. I pray I won't get any worse than what I already am.

 

I wonder why this happens?

I could not get your pm as my box was crammed full I have done some house keeping and so please send the pm.  As for why this happens to some people I do not know but it appears to not be an issue for others maybe this is the time your going to be lucky Muddles.  I think it should be looked at but we could just add it to the long list of things that never gets looked at ...

 

Who would look?  Doctors... not likely to busy and this is not their job... there are a couple of scientists who get funding to study this sort of thing but they are light years away from this ... they are way back at still figuring out  drug induced sexual dysfunction.. maybe lol doubt anybody is even working on that. ...bottom line there is no money in it. 

[btdt]

 

Scares me. I'm 15 months off. I pray I won't get any worse than what I already am.

 

I wonder why this happens?

Unchartered waters, really, so who knows the answer to that!  There are so many feedback loops in biochemistry, with everything working in harmony in an un-drugged system, but I wonder if certain pathways are slower to recover than others, or get more damaged than others and so imbalances remain here and there that affect the whole. Good nutrition is I"m sure key.  Have you had chemistries done to see where hormones, D and the like are at?

 

SG

 

yes had them done was low now better have not checked for a time ... not sure it makes any difference I can't take it anyway

[btdt]

Bumping along....nothing important to say other than I am looking for the test that may prevent further drug reactions... it is genetic... I know I found out about it here before and now I can't recall a thing about it...

 

if you know the name of the test please send it to me. 

Thanks B

[UnfoldingSky]

Hi btdt,

 

I think the company Genelex runs tests like this though I don't know how expensive they are.  Also you can try googling cytochrome P450 DNA adverse reaction, that should get you what you want.

 

I looked into them years ago, be aware that they won't prevent every drug reaction.  Of note--we can be sensitive of course because of withdrawal which won't be caught by the tests; doctors can of course combine more than one drug that ought not be combined, leading to a reaction; and other factors like age, other health problems and so on affect how you digest drugs.

 

Also they I am guessing don't deal with every possible drug either, so there's that to contend with too.

 

I know there's a thread around somewhere about this, just a sec, I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

US

[UnfoldingSky]

Found! One needle in a haystack...

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2158-genetic-testing-personalized-medicine-liver-enzymes-genotypes-genesightrx-genomind-etc/

 

Also, btdt, I'm pretty sure I saw on the news once that in Ontario at least the test could be had somewhere for a hundred dollars.  Wish I could remember where but my memory is like a sieve...

 

Hope that helps though!

 

US

[btdt]

Found! One needle in a haystack...

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2158-genetic-testing-personalized-medicine-liver-enzymes-genotypes-genesightrx-genomind-etc/

 

Also, btdt, I'm pretty sure I saw on the news once that in Ontario at least the test could be had somewhere for a hundred dollars.  Wish I could remember where but my memory is like a sieve...

 

Hope that helps though!

 

US

Thanks for the link I read it again.. I do that a lot. 

I recall actually calling one of these places and they wanted a grand I could not afford that so had to take a pass... I did talk to the guy for a bit and he said based on my bad reaction to birth control pills he could have predicted one of the other drug reactions I had.. I can't recall with reaction he said... and I don't know who he was or what company I called. 

That was a few drug reactions ago.. 

I am still not sure why I am reacting so badly now to drugs some I had taken in the past it may be some other reason but ruling out anything would be a start. I am not talking about psych drugs here I am not taking any psych drugs no reason to seek info on those... I am just talking ordinary drugs people need like antibiotics ect... common drugs. 

 

The last time I tried to get my doc to discuss this with me it was a bust and it may be the same thing this time wish me luck and thanks for the help. 

[UnfoldingSky]

Isn't it awful we measure time in terms of when we were on what drugs or reacting to them?  Oh for a life we never led...where time had some other scale of measurement.

 

Good luck with the doc, I had one that said something about getting me one of the tests ordered then it magically disappeared when a family member came with me to an appointment.  Out with that went admissions I'd been harmed by a drug too...I truly hope you have better results than I did with this!

 

Take care,

 

US

[btdt]

I can't even seem to get an allergy test so ya I guess there is no sense counting on anything. I already told her if this test has to do with me taking any drugs to forget about I won't do it.  So I will see what she comes up with. 

 

where time had some other scale of measurement. it is still years... for me.. 

[btdt]

lost a post...

last night I was itchy... part of the day I felt itchy... just before bed I got what looked like bits on my arms when I looked I have a rash with bit looking marks.. I have an allergic reactions to what I can't figure yet.  I think I have only had this one other time as an adult when I worked in a elderly neighbors yard cutting down tall weeds ect.  I ended up in hosp getting a shot as my throat started to close they said it was likely spores from some plant that caused it. 

 

I took half a benadryl last night it did not affect me the way it use to in hard wd... I am hoping I don't have the backlash fallout like I did when in hard wd... I took a half more than I have taken in years and the rash is a bit less but it is still here. 

 

If anyone has any advice on how to deal with a rash like this other than taking more benadryl please pipe up as I am itchy and burning...mostly only burning if I scratch. I am afraid of benadryl... I know big scardy cat it is true. 

Thanks  be given for this site yet again here I find a lesser allergic reaction after I stopped taking ceprozil... the same drug that caused me an anaphalactic reaction this past Nov 2015... the day after I stopped taking it... I did not know one could have an allergic reaction to a drug AFTER you stop taking it. 

 

Thanks for being here SA 

Again!   

peace all

[btdt]

note to self cut back on cold rubs

 

I have used menthol rubs (make you feel cold like deep cold I like absorbing junior)  which help and very much unlike myself I never looked it up till today.....

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/_-_-menthol#section=Metabolism-Metabolites

Menthol primarily activates the cold-sensitive TRPM8 receptors in the skin. Menthol, after topical application, causes a feeling of coolness due to stimulation of 'cold' receptors by inhibiting Ca++ currents of neuronal membranes. It may also yield analgesic properties via kappa-opioid receptor agonism.

 

not sure this all applies to the rubs but we can't be too careful

 

 

Health Hazard

SYMPTOMS: Symptoms of exposure to this compound may include irritation of the skin, eyes, mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract. Exposure may also cause hypersensitivity reactions including contact dermatitis, spasms of the glottis and collapse in young children, urticaria, flushing, headache, insomnia, unsteady gait, thick speech, tremor of the hands, mental confusion, depression, vomiting, cramp in the legs and bradycardia. Exposure to compounds of this class may cause painless blanching or erythema, possible corrosion, profuse sweating, intense thirst, nausea, diarrhea, cyanosis from methemoglobinemia, hyperactivity, stupor, blood pressure fall, hyperpnea, abdominal pain, hemolysis, convulsions, coma and pulmonary edema followed by pneumonia. If death from respiratory failure is not immediate, jaundice and oliguria or anuria may occur. These compounds occasionally cause skin sensitization. ACUTE/CHRONIC HAZARDS: This compound may be harmful by inhalation, ingestion or skin absorption. It is an irritant of the skin and eyes. It is also irritating to the mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract. When heated to decomposition it emits acrid smoke and toxic fumes of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. (NTP, 1992)

[btdt]

I am trying physio again .. I am moving freer a bit doing my exercise pushing myself... and am in pain a lot still... on the way in today I was glum depressed not mincing words... on the way home way better it is amazing how pain can make me feel depressed... 

 

Going there I was thinking if I can't get better after this one last shot I am ending this **** for good on the way home I was almost cheery. 

 

I have had many restarts this is my last one I don't have any more in me. 

peace

[direstraits]

btdt,so glad you've found something that helps...that's wonderful!

 

don't give up...so many care about you here!

 

xoxo

[manymoretodays]

I will second direstraits.  I am glad that you have learned, as many of us have, that the worst feelings and thoughts do pass.  They always do.

 

I care about you btdt.  And am rooting for you as well.

[SquirrellyGirl]

I will second direstraits.  I am glad that you have learned, as many of us have, that the worst feelings and thoughts do pass.  They always do.

 

I care about you btdt.  And am rooting for you as well.

Me, too!  We won't let these drugs win!  We just have to keep trying to figure out what self-care will bring us out of the hole.  

 

I know pain is a big one for causing distress. My DH is an example.  He had two levels of fusion in his neck after an acute spell of pain, and after the surgery he was distressed by the level of pain he was still having, regretted doing the surgery if it wasn't going to make him feel better, etc. Time passed.  One day I realized he hadn't been murmuring about his neck hurting, so I asked him about it.  He said yes, it still hurts, but I found that if I focused on it, it hurt more!  So, on his own he stumbled upon the ol' don't focus energy towards it and it will lose its power deal.  The mind is very powerful, and it can work for us or against us.

 

I'm so glad you felt cheery on the way home, after employing some excellent self-care!  We just have to keep nurturing ourselves along!

 

SG

[btdt]

Forgive my indulgence every now and then I get very down and pain has something to do with it.  Thank you all I went from cheery to great pain I have had enough physio to know this is how it goes sometimes yet not enough pain pills to deal with the fallout so after  a day in bed I went to a clinic and got some more pain pills ... this will be frowned upon by my gp and I am told to consult with her which I will do... but I was in a pain hole no getting out without drugs.  Tylenol #3 is my drug of choice as it has the least affect on my brain and works on pain.  I am very careful with it and generally limit myself to one a day but every now and then a half or quarter pill does nothing and I need more this was one of these times. It is about getting over the hump and keep moving eventually I know all this yet I fell in a hole as happens some times.  

Being occasionally self indulgent and saying things like this is it I am done may sound bad to others here some of which I feel a sense owing them the truth... which is sometimes I fall in a hole and can't get out.  Here is a bit more about that truth I use the ultimate out death as a place to go rest when things get sticky... it is all here already under something about suicide if you did not know this about me ... the last post may be off putting...so best you know.  I am not there I am not even close but I have been there many times enough times to decide to take a look at what purposed it served me as it I figures it must have some purpose or I would not go there so much the dance with suicide is a tricky topic I have hashed to death so I will not do it again here now.  There are different suicidal states some are emergencies some are dances that can teach a lesson some are drug induced crap that did not have any place in the real world understanding the difference is an art we all learn on our own I think... I did not come here to talk about it but apparently I am.  

I came here to talk about benadryl and how when I was in hard wd and not sleeping 3-4 days on end I would go rather mad and take 1/3 of a benadryl and sleep but it seemed to set me back in my wd wks and maybe more.  Hence I took very little as it was not worth it to me to sleep if I had to go back to the previous stage.  I thought of wd and linear then and I am still thinking there is something linear about it in this respect.  Long ago I learned Ads base drug they were invented from was a antihistamine I have had reactions to histamine related drugs... stomach pills that are H2 blockers make me suicidal for instance I think it was called famitadine but there is an over the counter H2 that perhaps people in wd need to be careful of... name escapes me but you can google it. 

Still it is an odd thing for me to go back the final curtain out even is a off hand reference I could chalk it up to the prednisone reaction but I really think I am on the back of that just now.  However a wk ago I took a half a benadryl to help me sleep when I had to go to the city for a doc apt the next day and I have not as stable since. 

What is surprising to me about this is I took a lot of benadryl when I had the hives and anaphalactic shock reaction in Nov and blamed the further reaction on the prednisone I got at the hosp... the benadryl when I took for hives/anaphalactic had no effect on me it did nothing I could see... so I assumed it did nothing tho I would generally react to 1/3 a normal dose is generally enough to treat hives for me. 

Choosing to take the 1/2 rather than the normal 1/3 dose was because I had assumed I was no longer reacting to it as before... however I think I was wrong and I think the dose last wk has had an effect on my mood ... not saying pain is not a big part of this it is...but I think the drug is too.  Please be very careful with antihistamines. 

 

I can't explain why it had no effect on me when I was having the allergic reaction to the antibiotic but I am sure there is an explanation... I just don't know what it is. 

 

Just in case this should happen to any of you I thought I would put it out there. 

 

Back to physio today hoping for good things... 

 

one more thing to add food... some things from the fatty liver book that heals the live artichokes lemon and water shitaky mushrooms... I can't recall why... but if your liver is an issue try adding these to your food... from the book Fatty Liver Dr Sandra Cabot hope that is the right name 

peace all

[btdt]

Scares me. I'm 15 months off. I pray I won't get any worse than what I already am.

 

I wonder why this happens?

I don't think it is a right on the day sort of thing it is within a few months it may be your at that stage now Muddles when I read what your writing lately it would seem like it to me but I have no name for it. That is how I felt at that 18 month stage it was 18 months when I wrote it and that is why I picked that number but I was in it by then long enough to realize something was different.

[btdt]

btdt,so glad you've found something that helps...that's wonderful!

 

don't give up...so many care about you here!

 

xoxo

Tanks you DS I have hit a wall again with it but I also know this is how it goes and I will continue this is going to be my pain answer or it isn't but I need to find out.  I have a lot more freedom of movement already more than I ever dared hope for so I will find and report back. 

peace 

[btdt]

I will second direstraits.  I am glad that you have learned, as many of us have, that the worst feelings and thoughts do pass.  They always do.

 

I care about you btdt.  And am rooting for you as well.

We all have bad days even people "normal" drug virgins have bad days but it seems a very bad day for me can bring more worry as it may be a sign or worse things to come and sometimes it is ... and sometimes it isn't.  

 

Thing is after going thru all this crap already it is easy to think it is spiral time we or I will say me... can think of places it has lead in wd that are unspeakable so there is a general fear I am going backwards key word being fear... maybe... maybe not lol I can't decide a thing today... 

 

I think it is part of that pts from simply living thru the wd experience tho I can't really say there was fear with this bout it was more a blah and feeling this is how it is always going to be... drudgery day in day out a hangover perhaps of years of healing from a previous accident. 

 

onward and upward thanks for caring 

peace to you

[btdt]

I am wide awake in the night looking for how to lower cortisol a thread I am positive is here at SA and which does not show up in google search of the site or the site search engine... 

 

For me this this one of the more useful when you need it threads and now I can't find it.  

 

I have a couple of options I know I can use and think there were more... know there were more.  It would be nice if we could get search to work better.... 

 

There is always the possibility that thread was merged with another and as such has lost it's title.... I just wish I could find it now and I can't. 

 

I tried some tea ... very low on the caffeine scale recommended for evening consumption... well not so for me it may not be the caffeine and it does feel like a cortisol spike hence my search.. it will wear off in time... just wanted to whine I guess... 

it is not that I am not use to odd sleep hours I am... the cortisol rush is at an high level for such a small thing I am surprised... garbage for that tea!

peace all

[MrAnxious]

I am wide awake in the night looking for how to lower cortisol a thread I am positive is here at SA and which does not show up in google search of the site or the site search engine... 

 

For me this this one of the more useful when you need it threads and now I can't find it.  

 

I have a couple of options I know I can use and think there were more... know there were more.  It would be nice if we could get search to work better.... 

 

There is always the possibility that thread was merged with another and as such has lost it's title.... I just wish I could find it now and I can't. 

 

I tried some tea ... very low on the caffeine scale recommended for evening consumption... well not so for me it may not be the caffeine and it does feel like a cortisol spike hence my search.. it will wear off in time... just wanted to whine I guess... 

it is not that I am not use to odd sleep hours I am... the cortisol rush is at an high level for such a small thing I am surprised... garbage for that tea!

peace all

Hey Btdt

 

I have been reading your latest threads. How have you been holding up ? We have been in this for the long run so far. I remember reading your posts when I was a SA virgin just starting out. Well now I have been effexor sober since nov q2 2012. I have been Buspar clean since March 2015. Brain fog is back, memory is crap, word recollection is crap. I can function but nothing like when I was on the drug. I have alot of panic and anxiety around people. I think because i don't want to sound stupid when I can't find my words properly. Is all this sounding normal? Your thing on cortisol is interesting. I am going to look at ways to lower it that don't involve supplements. No supplements seem to work the same after all this wd business. I just want to know if I will ever regain my mind again. People talk to me and i don't even really care or listen. Almost sounds like blah blah blah to my outside skull. Tell me what you think and how you are making out