downtongirl: I want to become med-free

[apace41]

 I then maybe feel a slight lift in mood about 15 minutes after a meal.  

 

Downtongirl,

 

Many people have a link of depressed mood to blood sugar fluctuations. You might fall into that category and eating small meals and snacks with lower glycemic foods might help you even out your moods.  Having a "lift" shortly after eating is one of the telltale signs of that happening.

 

In general, however, if CBT did not really help you then you need to find some coping mechanisms of your own that will help you recalibrate when you are in panic mode and your thoughts start racing.  Things like breathing techniques and EFT (tapping) have helped many people.  I would look into some of them if I were you.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[downtongirl]

Thank you I will have to research EFT therapy.

[downtongirl]

Today is not as good of a day as yesterday was.....I am having multiple bowel movements again, stomach pains, restless legs, shaking, heart palpitations, panic.....seriously considering going to the psych hospital

[Altostrata]

See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[AliG]

Downtongirl.   You have a tendency to panic, in a major way. It's understandable, however, could you please think this through. I wonder what you think they can do for you in a " Psych Hospital" ?  They will admit you and then possibly " dose you up " to the N'th degree. You will then be discharged , after a few days  and sent home with more medications . Then you will have to either taper off those , as well  or just give up , as you could  be so " poly- drugged " by then , you won't know what you're doing . Please stop and have a little think about this. It's possibly not something that you would want to do.  If you could  take stock , and become your own health advocate as the Doctor's are probably not going  to make this any better . They, got you here in the first place. I say all this out of concern . Your talk of going to the " psych  hospital " , sent shivers of fear through me !

 Patience is needed.

Try and stay calm . You will get through this.

Hugs, Ali

[ladybug]

One thing that jumped out at me is that you said you're taking the fish oil before bed. Some people, including myself, find fish oil to be stimulating so if you are having trouble with sleep I would switch to taking fish oil in the morning.

 

Try not to panic about the lack of sleep. Many people have gone long periods with zero sleep, unfortunately it's not uncommon with WD. Once you are more stable your sleep will return, it just takes time. I have had my own issues with insomnia and at its worst I went 9 days with about 3 hours sleep total, if even that. I made it through ok.

[Fresh]

Hi DG , it's been 6 days since you reinstated.  Are things overall better , worse or the same as before?

[downtongirl]

Things are not better Fresh.  They are worse.  I am supposed to be in school tomorrow and there is no way I can do that and I am scared to be here at home by myself.  My husband is not supportive...I told him I thought I needed to go to the hospital this morning but he just said wait and went up stairs and worked out exercising.  He has never been supportive.  I have been in mental health facilities a few times before unfortunately.  I can not endure this for months or years as the others here have.  Thank you for your encouragement everyone!

[Fresh]

What Ali wrote is spot-on DG ...  if you go to hospital you will most likely be medicated without  much discussion.

 

Today is a bad day , but read over your posts - yesterday was better.  There will be ups and downs , windows and waves.

That's why they say it's a fluctuating condition.   And you know that each wave passes  , and is temporary.

 

We're not talking about months or years - just another few weeks.

 

What are you afraid of about being at home on your own?

 

What things could you do during the time hubby is at work to make the day easier or feel safer?

[downtongirl]

that's just it I can't focus to do anything it is like i am in a frozen state or something...

[downtongirl]

I don't think this reinstatement is working......I am at 10 mg of liquid prozac because the 5 mg wasn't working.

[downtongirl]

I know I am not thinking rationally and I am panicking again....I am honestly trying my best to sort this out logically in my brain but I am beginning to think this is either a combination of effexor xr and prozac withdrawals because I bridged the effexor xr in July with 10 mg of prozac....finished effexor xr 5 weeks later the end of August and then finished the prozac one month later in September so that is only 9 weeks total for to wean two meds one being the notorious effexor xr.  I say this because I wonder if I have reinstated the song drug.  I know that it is advised to reinstate the last medicine you were on if you reinstate and that does make sense but I am wondering since effexor xr is a SNRI and prozac is a SSRI if the 10 mg of prozac are going to be able to cover the effexor xr withdrawal.  Do you think I should try to reinstate the effexor xr and quit the prozac?

[AliG]

Downtongirl. You are catastrophizing.  Please , breathe.  Acceptance is key. If you keep fighting the process, you will keep ramping up the symptoms more. Maybe , if you tried some Meditation and/ or deep breathing it would help. This link might also be helpful.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

Ali

[downtongirl]

I think Alto may be right I am not sure I have the temperament to do this

[Altostrata]

If you have been changing your dosage throughout the last 6 days, although we've told you many times to keep it steady, you are making your situation more complicated. It is possible you do not have the temperament to manage this yourself.

[apace41]

Downtown,

 

Not sure what to say to calm you down but you need to have patience and let things play out a little.  Having made the decision to updose to 10mg of Prozac doesn't it make sense to give it the 4 days to get into your system to see if that works?

 

Regardless of whether you have the temperament to taper successfully (my belief is that everyone does with the right coping mechanisms) you need to find a place of stability so let's see how you do after 4 days or so.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[downtongirl]

Yes you are right...I did give it 4 days at 5 mg but it wasn't working....I will think about trying to hold at 10 for 4 days...I have school tomorrow so I have to get some sleep...don't know what I am going to do about that......oh well.....I am my own worst enemy

[apace41]

Let me make a suggestion, downton.  You seem to feel the need when you panic to come on the site and write your feelings out.  What if you tried keeping a journal and writing what you are feeling when you are having panic.  In addition to an outlet for your emotions, you would have a great dairy of what is working and what is not.  Many people find journaling to be very cathartic.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[downtongirl]

I like that idea of journaling...I do like to write....I try to keep a daily symptom med journal.  

[apace41]

I like that idea of journaling...I do like to write....I try to keep a daily symptom med journal.  

 

So take it to the next level. Not just once a day as an "obligation."  Do it when you feel panicked over the condition.  As you start to lay out what is going on you may be surprised to see that it gives you a better handle on it all and that your anxiety begins to recede.

 

Good luck with it!

 

Andy

[downtongirl]

Thanks Andy I will give it a try

[Altostrata]

As you've increased your dosage, are you feeling better or worse?

 

I'm sure this has been mentioned many times before: The reason we say hold for 4 days is because it takes that long for any dosage change to fully register in your system. For example, if you updosed to 10mg Prozac today, it would take until about Thursday for the full dosage to hit.

 

If you keep on increasing your dosage, there is a chance you'll take too much but you won't know it until 4 days later and you feel even worse.

[downtongirl]

Ok that you Alto

[ladybug99]

Downtowngirl, if u bridged over from effexor to prozac and you are getting bad symptoms it could very well be that you are in withdrawal from the effexor and possibly having an adverse reaction to the prozac. This is what happened to me. I was in very bad shape the minute i switched. After 4 weeks i slowly reinstated the paxil ( which was the ssri i was on for years) n slowly titrated off the prozac within about one and a half weeks. I had been on 20 mg of paxil but reinstated 5 mg and upped to 7.5 mg. It was a bit rough for several months but i hung on. About 5 months later i felt much better and started my tapering.I'm wondering if, like me, your crossover didn't work.

[downtongirl]

Hey Ladybug....I think at the time it worked if you consider being able to get off effexor with out loosing what marbles I have left. I was on both effexor xr and 10 mg of prozac for about a month.  Once I took the last effexor pill I was on just the prozac for one month.  for a couple of days after I took the last effexor I did have some withdrawal but it quickly wen away.  October was the best month I have had in about 4 1/2 years.  It wasn't until mid November when I came down with a cold that I had some withdrawal but it only lasted a couple of days I took a hydroxyzine and it went away.  Then just before Christmas I had a couple more days of withdrawals but once again I took a hydroxyzine and it went away.  Now in January when it hit it was way more intense and didn't go away after taking a hydroxyzine.  I am wondering if the fact that the active metabolite of prozac can stay in your body for a few months after the last dose according to what I have read...if it made some of the residual effexor hang out until January too.  That is probably a far fetched idea just something I was wondering.  

[downtongirl]

Ok...I have a little update from how I felt earlier this afternoon...I am feeling a little calmer....now here are my thoughts on this.....

 

1.  I took your advice on trying to find something to do and I forced myself to study some vocabulary words for my class tomorrow...I think this did help a bit

2.  I remembered I had forgotten to take my NAC supplement so I took it....500 mg.....after about an hour after taking it I feel a little lighter...the reason I take NAC is the naturopath I visited around the first week of January gave it to me for tinnitus.  Her reason for doing this was it is supposed to thin mucus and she says some tinnitus is caused by alleges, mucus from sinuses draining into the eustachian tubes

 

So I am not recommending anyone take NAC and this may just be a fluke but I have read through the NAC thread and done some research of my own and it does seem that NAC can affect OCD to a small extent.  Could this just be a wave lessening.....absolutely...who knows.  

 

Also, I had been taking the NAC, Magnesium Glycinate (which indirectly affects gaba somehow), fish oil, probiotic, and  multi vitamin for a couple of weeks.  I did not take any of them yesterday because I was doing my all day cortisol saliva test and the instructions said not to take any supplements although I did take my prozac and noted so on the sheet.  Is there any remote chance that in 1-2 weeks of using Magnesiu Glycinate and NAC I suffered withdrawal from them today since I did not use them yesterday?  Interested to hear from those more knowledgeable than I on this.

[Christian]

Downtowngirl, if u bridged over from effexor to prozac and you are getting bad symptoms it could very well be that you are in withdrawal from the effexor and possibly having an adverse reaction to the prozac. This is what happened to me. I was in very bad shape the minute i switched. After 4 weeks i slowly reinstated the paxil ( which was the ssri i was on for years) n slowly titrated off the prozac within about one and a half weeks. I had been on 20 mg of paxil but reinstated 5 mg and upped to 7.5 mg. It was a bit rough for several months but i hung on. About 5 months later i felt much better and started my tapering.I'm wondering if, like me, your crossover didn't work.

[Christian]

Hi Lady Bug,

I see you reinstated Paxil after one month being off of it. That is great you stabilized eventually. thank you for sharing.

[ladybug99]

Downtowngirl, did you send me a PM? For some reason it's not downloading. I will try to PM you.

[Fresh]

Good work DG.   I often write a list of activities I can do and look at it when I'm at a loose end. E.g , clean windows ,

wipe out cutlery drawer , sweep balcony.  There's always something to focus on which brings down anxiety.

 

Take a look at Glenmullens' table of symptoms.  

It can be very difficult to articulate exactly what it is that's making us feel dreadful.  If you select the main symptoms

that are affecting you , you can monitor them more easily.

 

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

[downtongirl]

Well wanted to give an update as I have been unable to do so over the past few months.  I was unable to manage my withdrawal symptoms on my own.  The reinstatement of prozac did not work in January and I ended up in the hospital in late January 2016.  They put me back on effexor xr since that is the antidepressant I had the most luck with in the past but I requested to change to something new that was not as notorious but harsh withdrawal symptoms so we tried lexapro.  They sent me home after just three days of lexapro and I begged them not to because I told them it was not enough time to see how I would do on lexapro.  I was till not sleeping even with trazadone.  I went home and was existing for about a week then had the worst depression I have ever had.  I went to a different hospital and the doctors stopped the lexapro and put me on lamictal and gabapentin.  I felt better about 6 hours after being off of the lexapro.  This lead them to believe I was bipolar type 2.  I had wondered for a few years if I was bipolar so I went a long with it.  They changed my gabapentin to lyrics because the gabapentin was making me feel weird.  I had been on lyrics before so that was an easy switch.  After two months of being on the lamictal and lyrics combo I began to have withdrawal symptoms again.  The doctor and I felt I should try to reinstate effexor so we did.  I started out on 37.5 and did not notice much so we went to 75 mg and I had some weird symptoms that I had never had before....heavy chest feeling, sweats, etc....like I said I had never had this on the previous times I had been on effexor...it really only lasted one day...I was panicking that the reinstatement would not work.  A few days on 75 mg I was feeling a little relief in withdrawal symptoms.  Next we raised it to 112.5 mg.  I continued to feel a little better.  We have now raised the dosage to 150 mg and I am noticing some improvements.  What has improved is.....sleep....I have been to sleep a few hours with out trazadone or any other sleep aid.  Appetite is slowly improving.  I am not having the waves of high anxiety....I am not having as many hot flashes as I was.  I feel a little more calm. Depersonalization is better but there is still some hanging around. Some things have not improved that much which is the depression.  Motivation is also struggling to come back.  I do have a symptom that I have had during withdrawal but not while taking effexor before and that is I am having some mild brain zaps/vibrations.  They are off and during the day and last only about a second.  It is not like a normal brain zap but more like a slight second of vertigo mixed with brain vibration.  I am hoping these will go away.  It is no wonder I have them with all my brain has been through.  During the past month the blood work came back from February when I was on just the lamictal and lyrics.  This blood work was done by a new functional medicine doctor I have been going to.  One of the interesting results from the blood work was that I have a MTHFR CY677T homogenous (2 strains...one from my mom and one from my dad) gene mutation.  The doctor said this is what she believes is contributing to my delayed on set of withdrawal symptoms every time I have discontinued psych meds.  The reason is evidently because of this mutation I am unable to rid my body of toxins like I should.  She also says that this gene mutation makes people who have it more likely to develop mental disorders like depression, skitzophrenia, bipolar, etc.  It also makes people who have it at an increased risk of miscarriages, stroke, alzheimers, heart disease which makes sense because my mother had 3 miscarriages before having me and I had 2 miscarriages before having my first child, and my  mother had genital heart defects/disease, and my grandfather on my dads side passed away due to alzheimers. She has me taking vitamin b6, vitamin b12 methylcobaalamin, Lcarnetine, Zine, Vitamin D, Fish Oil, Coq10, Vitamin C.  I am scared.  I am frustrated and mad that I ever took the first antidepressant 20 some years ago.  I am trying to be at peace with the fact that I will have to be on these medicines to try and stabilize for a long time.  I am praying that the brain zaps go away and that I will have more motivation and some happiness in the near future.  I am interested to see if from my description of the above symptoms if I should be optimistic about my current reinstatement?  Are the odds that I will continue to improve of can things go south while I wait to stabilize?  Thanks in advance!

[Altostrata]

You're now on a cocktail of drugs with a cockamamie diagnosis. We can't predict how long this will "work" or what you should do if things go south. You will have to talk with your doctors about fine-tuning your cocktail, we don't do that here.

 

In low doses, lamotrigine tends to reduce withdrawal symptoms and Lyrica tends to help people sleep.

 

The MTHFR variation is a normal variation and not responsible for withdrawal syndrome or much of anything else (except a proven connection to pregnancy, which is remedied with folate supplementation).

 

All antidepressants and psychiatric drugs, including lamotrigine and Lyrica, carry risk for withdrawal syndrome.

[downtongirl]

Back for another update.  As the lyrica and lamictal did not seem to be doing anything positive my Doctor weaned me off of them.  It has been about 3 weeks since I have been off of lyrica and lamictal and did not have much in the way of withdrawals from coming off of them.  What I am feeling from the effexor xr is very unmotivated to do anything but at the same time I feel calmer.  My sleep is some better.  I am still having the mini brain zaps/vibrations through out the day and my psychiatrist wants me to take 75 mg effexor xr in the am and 75 effexor xr in the evening.  He thinks it will help since my body seems to be metabolizing the effexor xr very quickly which is what he is contributing to the brain zaps since restarting the effexor xr.  In the previous years I have taken antidepressants I have never had brain zaps while taking an antidepressant only when withdrawing from an antidepressant.  The brain zaps began after reinstating the effexor xr.  The supplements I am currently taking are fish oil, magnesium, pro b, and lysine.  What are your thoughts on doing what my dr. suggested and taking 75 mg of effexor xr in the am and in the pm?  Thanks in advance.

[scallywag]

Splitting your dose would likely reduce and possibly eliminate your zaps.  XR doesn't mean that the drug lasts any longer in your body after being. People often go to 2x/day dosing when tapering Effexor.

 

What do you think about his suggestion?

[downtongirl]

Hi Scallywag and thanks for responding!  Well to be honest I am a little confused.  I wonder if taking the 75 mg xr 2 x a day will make my body feel it is in withdrawals since I usually take the 150 mg xr dosage all at once in the am.  But I do see where the 75 mg 2 x a day would keep the level more consistent in my body.  Do you think my body will recognize that it is getting a more stable dosage or that it is a reduction in dosage each time I take it during the day (am & pm).  I am perplexed why I am having he brain zaps while on the medicine when I have only ever had zaps when coming off of an AD.  I am also a little confused because I thought the XR version of effexor meant extended release which enables you to take it once a day which is what I always took it previously and did fine with it.  I did not realize that there were people who took the xr version of effexor 2 x a day.

[downtongirl]

Hello Karen B. I just was reading some of your introductory post and was hoping to get some advice....my psych dr. wants me to switch from taking 150 mg of effexor xr once a day to 75 mg of effexor xr 2 x a day. The reason for this is because since reinstating the effexor in April I am having brain zaps about 4 hours after my morning dosage and continues until I take the next dosage the next day. In my previous times on any of the antidepressants I have been on I have never had the brain zaps/dizzy spells while constantly taking he medicine only when withdrawing from them. I am a little scared that I will experience withdrawal symptoms from splitting the dosage....did you experience withdrawals from splitting the dosage? Thanks!