downtongirl: I want to become med-free

[downtongirl]

So I am having problems with what I think are adrenaline surges.  I think this is what I have been referring to as my anxiety, restlessness, etc.  They begin in the late afternoon and it goes like this....

 

late afternoon I get increased energy....feels like what hypomanic has been described in other places....I want to clean, get up and do things after spending the morning and early afternoon flat and depressed.....

 

This increase in energy brings with it increased heart rate that last for about 5 hours.  

 

I also get sudden spikes that a hot flash accompanies it.

 

4 pm.....I suddenly feel like I have woken up from a hang over with an increase in energy, things look sharper and clearer, my heart rate increases, I get parathesisa in my feet and legs, and I feel like I have had way too much diet coke.  This feeling doesn't end until around 9:30 - 10:pm.

 

5:30 pm....I am still experience the above feelings from 4pm but start to have a sudden feeling of a adrenaline spike which is accompanied by a hot flash feeling with sometimes sweating involved.

 

6:30 pm....repeat of the 5:30 pm adrenaline surge with hot flash

 

8:30 pm....repeat of the 6:30 pm adrenaline surge with hot flash but a little more intense

 

9:30 pm....repeat of the 8:30 pm adrenaline surge with hot flash

 

Between 8:30 pm and 10 pm I can have several that can happen every few minutes.

 

I also can have one if I get up to go to the bathroom or to get something so I guess moving around affects them.

 

I have these on days when I take a morning walk and days like to day when I did not take a morning walk so I guess walking does not affect them.

 

It is interesting because once the spike/hotflash episode happens which will last anywhere from a few seconds to about one minutes I feel a little better...a little mood elevation and  like a release of tension.

 

I think I have been feeling agitated and irritable because it feels like I am on a constant verge of a panic attack but it doesn't come to fruition.  I have been paranoid that this is the beginning of akathisia which it still might be but I think it is adrenaline surges.  

 

I know this has to do with cortisol and adrenaline because when I did a 24 hour cortisol test my cortisol is rock bottom until late afternoon/evening then it remains high until midnight or so.

 

Anyone else experience the above episodes?

[ChessieCat]

I search this site for existing topics by using Google and type in survivingantidepressants.org + topic (in this case:  adrenaline)

 

I found this topic which has links in Post #2:  Adrenaline Dumps - Bangs

[savinggrace]

Hi downton girl,

 

I have what I call adrenaline surges in the pre-dawn hours almost every day.  They wake me up out of a sound sleep.  They are usually accompanied by rapid heartbeat, shortness of breath, and high anxiety.  I chalk it up to withdrawal.  I have been holding for 2 1/2 months and the surges still come but not every morning.  I don't really get them during the day.  They usually pass w/i a half hour.  I use prayer and slow, deep breathing.

 

Grace

[downtongirl]

Thanks CheesieCat for the links.

 

Thanks Grace for dropping by.  I am hoping it will get better in time.

[grandmaD]

Later....ive had a think and here are some phases, symptoms and time frames to ponder.

 

Consider :

 

The curious phase; Symptom (S) thinking ‘Should I really still be taking this drug after 10 years use’ ‘Why do I feel so numb to life’ Lasts until next docs visit.

 

The enquiry phase; S, Asking doc questions like what the heck is this crap im swallowing anyway. Are you sure this is not addictive? Lasts for one consultation and about two weeks after.

 

The confused phase; S- Unhappy with doctor blitherings and a desire to start to do ‘googling’ 

 

The humiliation phase; S- after 10 mins of googling a sense of horror begins to descend and a tsunami of shear unbelief emerges…..timeframe -after 5 years I am still in it.

 

The urgency phase; S- A desire to tell the doctor ‘get me off this crap!!’ Lasts until next doctor visit and during his predictable kamakazi taper schedule.

 

The uninformed taper phase; S- On the doctors instructions you become drug free within a month often sooner.

 

The hypomanic phase; S- I am so glad I got that poison out of me  ….i feel much more alive. Timeframe about 1 week to 2 months.

 

The crash phase; S – a sense of wanting to die emerges. Occurs about 2-3 months once off the drug.

 

The akathisia phase; S- uncontrolled restlessness and uncontrolled psychological panic suicidality topped off with crying spells. 2-3 years.

 

The doc help me phase; S- a sudden urge to run to the doc / anyone in order to take away the suffering. 2 -4 years.

 

The terror/unimaginable/ I want to scream horror phase; S –PSSD, may last forever.

 

The un-patient me phase; S- A sudden realization sinks in that the doctor has no idea what he is doing, peddling or promoting. Comes on very quickly and may last for the rest of your life. It’s a major paradigm shifting phase. Can be triggered by experiencing full blown ssri withdrawal. Some are incapable of passing through this phase .

 

The im not taking anymore bullsh#t phase ; S- the growing of two antennae, ones called Blinkin and the others called Stupid or BS for short. Growth begins during the 10 mins of googling.

 

The uncontrollable anger phase; S- When the neighbours dog barks one time too many, one is overcome with a desire to nuke the neighbor, the neighbours house and pets. And that family member who criticizes me …oh boy you just started a cold war and the resurrection of the Berlin wall. 2 years maybe 3 years. A desire to say things that people can get put in jail for saying. If not careful collateral damage could last a life time.

 

The out of control manic/psychotic phase; S- A desire to persue self destructive actions and reckless spending and foolish impulsive decision making. 3 4 years...and anytime while on the drug.

 

The I cant take this anymore in the mornings phase; S- A desire to go to bed and never wake up again. 4 years

 

The windows and waves phase; S- windows and waves, years.

 

I am not going to make it phase; S- about 3-4 years.

 

I am outraged about what has happened to me  phase; S writing letters of complaints prolifically ….kicks in at about the 2 year stage…

 

The diarrhea and flatulence phase; S – diarrhea and flatulence , ongoing may last for years.

 

The insomnia phase; S - cant get a regular nights sleep, should resolve itself  usually takes  about 9 years

. 

The OCD phase; S – OCD; usually only realized with hindsight and insight. Maybe 5 years.

 

The chronic fatigue and muscle weakness phase; S - fatigue and weakness, Not sure how long it lasts but i hope it resolves soon cos at 5 years this phase truly sucks. 

 

The I found SA phase; S- Overwhelming thankfulness and relief one is not alone, also a sudden desire to welcome every newbie...with a flood of opinions, Can last a long time and may become  an addiction...after 5 years im still in it. Hoping to taper sometime soon.

 

oh yeah one more ...The i'm getting on with my life phase ; S- forgetting to check in to sa because i have a life to live  ...hopefully kicks in sooner rather than later.

 

There are heaps more but this is just a couple that came to mind!

I LOVE IT!  So well said AND SO TRUE!!!!

[grandmaD]

So I am having problems with what I think are adrenaline surges.  I think this is what I have been referring to as my anxiety, restlessness, etc.  They begin in the late afternoon and it goes like this....

 

 

This increase in energy brings with it increased heart rate that last for about 5 hours.  

 

Anyone else experience the above episodes?

Oh yeah, and they are not pleasant are they!  It does happen in the day but I don't notice it but when it is strongest is when I lie down at night, roll over, want to go to sleep and it all pumps up, everything revs up and can last hours and at times has lasted all night and the next day.  This has been happening for years now and is definitely w/d.  It will wake me up in the middle of the night, so I cannot blame "thoughts" for bringing it on, and early in the morning, same thing.  I also get the dizzy thing, body vibrations get worse, head vibrations also and hot and sweaty.

[grandmaD]

I landed on page 1 somehow and saw the above post, I didn't realise it was from long ago.  Anyway, it's worth posting again, so good!  In fact, I would encourage you Downtowngirl to re-read your journal on a regular basis.  I say this because someone just picked up something in my journal that someone wrote quite a while back and it was EXCELLENT  advice and I have no recollection of seeing it!  I should have taken this advice WAY BACK THEN.  Sadly, I think our brains just don't take everything in and sometimes we have to read it 3 or 4 times over to absorb it or "get it".

[grandmaD]

I do but I can't handle this agitation that prozac is giving me.

I notice you a re on Trazadone - I was considering it might help me with my anxiety related issues - so does it NOT help you be calmer?  This will help me in decision making!

[grandmaD]

Hello GrandmaD thanks for stopping by.  I have been down to 5 mg for a couple of days and it is still too activating for me.  I spend the morning in an entire fog glued in my chair then the afternoon and evening with bad agitation and anxiety....I have a doctors appointment this Friday with my psychiatrist.  If I am not better by then I will talk to him about either stopping trying something different.  I am thinking about if I am not better by Friday of trying buspar for anxiety which I took a few years ago.  I don't want to take anything but I have got to get something to calm this anxiety...I would rather try that before I try a benzo.

Did you got from 10mg to 5mg???  How long were you on the 10mg for and is that still Prozac?  I am following your journal because of thinking switch to Prozac so very curious about what your process/plan is.  Did that drop improve the anxiety or make it worse?  What is buspar, is that another a/d?  Benzo will not help, they are for short term use and the anxiety lasts for years.  Seen too many people use it once a week, then twice and then three times and next thing addicted daily.

What did the physchiatrist suggest?  What do you want to do?

[downtongirl]

Hello GrandmaD....well I don't have good news for you with regards to the bridge...I am sorry to say.  I was not tolerating prozac so my doctor and I decided to stop it.  It has been about a week now according to my notes and here has been my response.

 

Things that have improved

 

I feel more alive

 

Derealization and Depersonalization is better....not gone but better

 

Motivation to do things is better...I have actually scrapbooked a couple of times, gone and gotten a massage, gone to the pool a couple of times, and went to dinner with friends one night

 

Heart rate seems to be calming down some

 

The waves of afternoon anxiety,hot flashes, irritability, etc. are better...not gone but better.

 

I guess I am having waves and windows because I can have an hour or so when I almost feel like a normal person then to have my mood decline.  I am experiencing more anxiety, agitation, irritability than depression.  I think most of the depression I am feeling is because I just don't see a good outcome as I know it takes several weeks for Prozac to get out of my system and in the past it was at about 6 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks and then at 13 weeks when all hell broke loose so I am dreading what is going to come.

 

I am still taking fish oil 2 x a day and have added back in magnesium glycine at 400 mg 1 x a day and Seriphos to help with my cortisol.

 

I am afraid I am just too sensitive for any chance of antidepressant reinstatement.

 

I have also cut my trazadone and am now taking just 25 mg at night.

 

I have had some symptoms of withdrawals...

 

a few minor brain zaps

 

dizziness

 

parathesia

 

 

I am just passing each minute waiting for withdrawals to fully kick in.

[grandmaD]

Hi there.  Sorry to hear you had to quit Prozac.  I went to Dr. this morning and he won't do a switch anyway because I am so deteriorated and in a bad place.  It sounds like it isn't the way to go anyway, but just the same, you might have tapered it too quick and that's why it didn't help.  Prozac has the longest half life so stays in the system heaps longer, so a week off isn't going to give a real accurate report.  let me know, in a few weeks how you are going.  I hope, however, it has helped to get right off it and you will have a good report down the track! x and hug

[nz11]

Glad you enjoyed the phases grandmaD

I also share grandmaDs concern and gently request to putting the sequence of prozac dose drops in the sig.

To be honest i am very very worried for you.

So your doc took you off prozac, so did your doctor have a plan for coping with wdl symptoms or did he just say they are a minor issue?

[downtongirl]

Thanks grandmaD.....yes I believe for me that the way I bridges in 2011 was better for me using 6 months to get down to low dosage of Effexor then using 6 more months to cross taper was better for me but I don't think anything is going to work right now my body is just too sensitive.

[downtongirl]

Nz11 I am going in to see my dr. Today to see how we should handle withdrawal don't think there is really much we can do.

[tntd]

Hi Downtongirl,

 

I hope your doctors visit went well and you were able to find some way that you feel comfortable with to help you cope with your withdrawal. If it is anything like mine it's just a wait it out situation but hopefully you will be able to find a way to make yourself more comfortable. I think you are doing a great job hanging in there so far.

 

Hugs

[downtongirl]

thank you T....you are very kind and I appreciate your well wishes.  I did have my dr.'s appointment today and we are trying propranolol 10 mg 2 - 3 times per day for two weeks to see how I do on it....I am definitely having windows and waves.....today has gone like the following...

 

woke up after about 7 hours of broken sleep....immediately start thinking about all of this withdrawal/medicine crap

 

9 AM...feeling flat and a little down

 

11 AM...feeling a little better

 

12 PM....feeling even better

 

1 PM....feeling even better

 

3 PM....start leveling out

 

4 PM....start feeling energized and anxious in my legs and mind

 

5 PM....still anxious, frustrated, feeling defeated

 

6 PM....more of the above

 

6:15 pm... eat dinner

 

6:30 pm....start feeling much better all of a sudden....sort of what I would imagine hypomanic feels like...very care free

 

7 pm....took a 45 minute walk.....during the walk mood fluctuates back to being frustrated and anxious

 

8 pm....waves of anxiety and windows of calmness every 15 - 20 minutes

 

I took a propranolol this afternoon and did not really notice anything

[downtongirl]

Can you get brain zaps in your legs/knees?  I am not sure that is what is going on but I can all of a sudden feel this anxiety start in my legs that rises quickly and seems to focus on my knees....it happens so quickly that it feels almost like a jolt....they had been building more slowly but today they have been coming more quickly...it almost makes me have to move my legs or jump up out of my chair....for now they pass with in about a minute or less.

[nz11]

Can you get brain zaps in your legs/knees? 

 

Edit: Decided to delete comment.

 

Well Breggin says that during withdrawal the best thing is to expect the unexpected.

 

Did the doctor have a plan should the propranolol not cover the ssri/snri wdl?

 

Sorry you are in this situation.

 

nz11

I still get nerve twitchings especially in my legs.

[btdt]

yes you can I have had them I have also had full body zaps down to my feet... head down spine and face... answer yes. 

[ChessieCat]

I've had zaps/tingling happen across my back when walking.

[grandmaD]

Can you tell me what propranolol is?  How are you going with the reduction of trazadone?  Can it be addictive?  Do you know if it is an a/d or benzo or something else??  Take care - oh, glad to hear you are scrapbooking - something I used to 5 years ago before tapering/withdrawal.  No energy or interest any more, but it is a great hobby.  You can do it on-line now and it comes out beautiful, like glossy magazines!

[downtongirl]

Good morning.....I'll try to answer the above questions....

 

NZ11....well for now my dr. and I decided to give the propranolol 2 weeks to see if it makes a difference with the heart rate/adrenaline surges....we are not expecting it to take care of all the withdrawal just hoping it will take care of those two symptoms at the least drastically reduce them.

 

If that does not work then might switch to clonidine or a very low sub therapeutic dosage of lithium was mentioned as it is supposed to reduce norepinephrine which is what we believe is causing these heart rate surges/adrenaline surges is drastic spikes in cortisol/norepinephrine  My doctor also wants me to use klonopin as needed but I plan to use hydroxyzine before the klonopin.....GrandmaD if you don't know hydroxyzine is not a benzo it is an older antihistamine that you have to have a prescription for.  It has helped with sleep in the past for me.  When I had a LOT of blood work and DNA tests done recently my histamine levels were high.  That is the plan for now.  We do not feel I am tolerating SSRI medications.

 

GrandmaD....propanolol is a beta blocker (heart/blood pressure) medication.  It helps block adrenaline and lowers heart rate.  Doctors have used it for the physical feelings of anxiety such as adrenaline surges, increased heart rate, blushing, etc.  A lot of performers use it before they go on stage to help with anxiety.  It is short acting and is usually taken 2 - 3 times a day.  I have been checked by a cardiologist and don't have heart disease and my normal blood pressure and heart rate are good so we feel it is safe to try.  He has given me a dosage that is below the normal therapeutic level for high blood pressure so we are starting me on 10 mg 2 x a day....once in the morning and once in the evening.  Propranolol is also one of the main drugs used to treat akathisia.  I'm not sure if I have akathisia as right now I am able to sit for very, very long periods of times....hours at the time but the symptoms of what I feel internally seem to fit with what I have read others feel during akathisia which is an intense FIGHT OR FLIGHT feeling.  It is not a benzo.  It is not considered addicting in that people crave it or want to abuse it but it does have to be weaned so that you don't get a blood pressure spike upon quitting it and don't get rebound adrenaline surges.  I took one my 2 dosages yesterday and I was monitoring my heart rate and it did help with that.  As for the adrenaline surges I did not see any real improvements with that unfortunately which is what I want it to help with the most but I m keeping my fingers crossed that it will take a few days.  I hope that information helps.  If you do a search here there is a link for propranolol and beta blockers.

 

I hope you both have a great day!

[JanCarol]

Hey DG, you posted in my thread:

 

I have had to stop my SSRI cold turkey due to side effects.  You can see my history summarized in my signature.  I am experiencing these body jolt/adrenaline surges/that brings anxiety, restlessness, agitation, etc.  Right now they are happening everyday and have been for quite some time.  I am not bipolar but this withdrawal is giving me bipolar symptoms.  We are trying a low dosage of propranolol for two weeks to see if that helps but if it doesn't we are looking at a low dosage of lithium because lithium is supposed to help lower norepinephrine which is what we believe is causing these episodes for me.  I also can get hypo manic in the late morning and after dinner or a couple of hours.  My doctor does not believe I am bipolar but we are trying to treat these episodes with out klonopin.  We both feel my system is way too sensitized and I don't tolerate SSRI's any longer.  

 

Long story short....almost 21 years of ssri/klonopin use.  Have had several failed attempts to taper/ct since 2008.  I have used prozac to bridge off of effexor in 2010 - 2011 and that bridge was successful but when I quit the prozac after the bridge I crashed and had to go back on antidepressants.  Last summer I once again successfully used prozac to bridge off of effexor and when I quit the prozac I crashed about 3 months later.  Once the crash happened three months after being off of prozac and on no psychotropic medications we tried to reinstate prozac but that failed and made thins worse so I ended up in the hospital and they jerked me off of the prozac and started me on lamictal and gabapentin.  I felt better.  I got up to 100 mg of lamictal but did feel it was helping enough so in May we discontinued it.  Looking back I think it did help somewhat with mood stabilization.  I don't know how much of the withdrawal is was helping with from the ct of prozac.  This makes me question if the lithium would help or not.

 

My question is besides the regular side effects of lithium....increased thirst, urination, etc. what is to be expected when starting and taking a very low dosage of lithium?

 

Have you ever taken lamictal?  If so how does it compare to how lithium makes you feel?

 

Thanks in advance for reading my post!

 

Best wishes!

 

Nope, never took lamictal.  I begged for it when I saw its "efficacy against bipolar depression" - however now I don't believe in drug trials at all.  When I begged for it, my doctor said, "not approved in Australia yet, too many side effects!"

 

Ironically, when I wanted to come off the lithium, she OFFERED it to me.  As I was already suffering toxicity (kidney problems) from the lithium, I did not want to take anything that could also be toxic.

 

I came off the lithium without it.

 

I'm not sure that you were toxic - I think you were suffering fast switches, CT's and side effects of erratic dosing.  I'm not going to read all 12 pages of your thread to find out.

 

In the current "drug war" climate, they are moving away from benzos and opoids, and propanolol is one of the things they are going to, in order to quiet the symptoms of anxiety.  But it still does not address withdrawal, there is still a chance for reaction, and it only covers the symptoms up - it doesn't address the cause.

 

How are your Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms ?  I'm sure that's not what you want to hear - but if I were to credit anything with my healing, it would be a number of factors.

 

I used to do 10 min a day of meditation with my husband to help with his insomnia (it helped me, too, it "cleared the slate" so that the ruminations were less.)

 

I do yoga 1-2 days a week.

 

I joined a "over 50's education social club" and confronted my fears of strangers to do tai chi 1 day a week.

 

I got a ukulele which I practice for a little music.

 

I listen to music which is uplifting and challenging.

 

I color in coloring books, sometimes very complex works, and it distracts me and calms me, and gives me pleasure to work with colours and beautiful art - even if I didn't do the drawings.

 

I get together with a friend, in person, at least once a week.

 

I have a phone call with a friend, in real time, at least once a week.

 

I drum for a shamanic experiences class, helping others to find their inner symbols and strengths.  It is the hardest thing I do, because it involves public speaking, and it's on a scheduled night - I can't just flake out on the night, I have to do it when I said I would.  People depend on me for that.

 

I have the support of my husband, my therapist, my orthomolecular doctor,  my massage therapist, and my acupuncturist,  and as a result of their support - also the support of my p-doc, my GP, and my endocrinologist.  As you know, I recently found an osteopath who will help me with my joint and tendon pain.

 

I am now attending karate 1x a week, and still do tai chi whenever I feel stiff and painful.

 

I take about 70 unique supplements, it is a complex regime that I do not recommend for anyone else - but each time I had a problem, more supplements were added - carefully and with great research.  If I went off a statin, I replaced it with a fibre supplement, bergamot and plant sterols.  If I went off a PPI I replaced it with l-glutamate, slippery elm, and marshmallow.  I take a balance of B vitamins and minerals to manage my mood.  I have no thyroid or ovaries, and so take glandulars and vitamins and minerals to support my adrenal glands.  It is very complicated, and I don't post it here, because I'm taking these supplements to control the damage which has been done.  There is another set of aminos, minerals, and vitamins for mood management.  It is finely tuned, managed by 3 MD's, a compounding pharmacist, and myself.

 

If your histamine levels are high, please look into http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3503-histamine-food-intolerance/  and "The Low Histamine Chef" as recommended by GiaK.

 

I do not recommend any drugs, ever.  That is between you and your body.

 

What you are doing now, is not working.  Why don't you try reading all the wonderful suggestions on your thread, and seeing what you can change, and move towards something better.

 

I saw a great video today:

 

 

Learn to move towards what will make you better, even if it means you must be uncomfortable for the short term.  It's what makes you better that is important.

 

I don't know if I've answered your question, but I hope there is something here to help you.

 

And - I hope you see the sun today!

[JanCarol]

PS:  if you google "lithium toxicity" it isn't pretty.

 

I have a friend in the US who is a doctor, and when she heard I was on the lithium, she was crestfallen.  "It has," she said, "A narrow therapeutic window," which means that - how much is helpful is very close to how much is toxic.

 

Lithium means blood tests every 3-6 months.  AND - my p-doc was telling me that my "kidney function was fine" on the blood tests, when I was having diabetes insipidus (more pee coming out than fluids going in).  So - I don't trust the blood tests for keeping you safe, either.

 

I am on a tiny tiny amount of lithium orotate.  You could try that, but if you go over 5 mg per day, you want to get blood tests for that, too.  Additionally, with the amount of instability I see in your signature and thread, I think the benefit you receive from this will be miniscule compared to the price you might pay for it in bodily function.

 

Sorry it's not "the magic answer," but the only answer is time, stability, and hard work.

[downtongirl]

Thanks JanCarol for your reply!

 

I am doing some things to try and address the core problems.....

 

I try to walk at the least 30 minutes a day

 

I try to get daily sunshine

 

When I can I also do the coloring

 

I attend church every week

 

I take fish oil and magnesium

 

I try to get a massage once a month...they are expensive

 

I take a few epsom salt baths each week

 

Things I want or would like to do....

 

water aerobics

 

water yoga

 

tai chi

 

getting some relaxing spa type music

 

meditation

[Yogagirl38]

Downtongirl i mean this in the best way possible but you may not like it but it is what needs to be said. STOP TAMPERING with all these dangerous medications! Just stop! Shame on your doctors for allowing this to happen! You NEED to accept that you are going to have to stick to one medicine, accept that you will have unpleasant sode effects by coming off and you have to wean slow. Do not add herbal concoctions, vitamins, or any other medication. Just wean down and know yes it will suck but it is the only way to get better. You are in a fragile state of mind right now and need a good support group. Also find something that interests you that will help take focus off focusing on your body like yoga or QiGong, painting, gardening, etc. And for the love of god do not take lithium. Right now your body chemistry is all out of whack and to unwack it just wean slowly off what you are on now. Best of luck to you. Sorry to be so abrupt but you can do this just be patient and wean super slow and stabilize.

[downtongirl]

Yogagirl38.....I can not wean because I was having too many side effects from the prozac so I am off.  I know your post was well intentioned but everyone has their own level of what they can tolerate.....If I can find something that will help with these adrenaline surges I am going to take it....I know there are risks and it is my decision.  I do agree that I have to work on accepting these side effects and with distraction but I have read where others have suffered horribly for years and if I can find something to help with this anxiety I plan on trying it instead of trying to endure for years.

[scallywag]

downton: It might be illuminating for you to sit down with paper and a pen/pencil to take notes while you read your thread from start to current.  I think you'll see many changes in drugs and dosages and also that several of your current questions have been addressed previously.  I've done this with others' threads as a moderator and it's astounding what you see when you read an introduction thread as a case history.

[ChessieCat]

Here are a couple of links to Alto's story:

 

Biography of Founder of Surviving Antidepressant Website, Alto Strata
 

Video:  Alto Strata's Paxil Prolonged Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome (8 minutes)

[Shep]

Yogagirl38.....I can not wean because I was having too many side effects from the prozac so I am off.  I know your post was well intentioned but everyone has their own level of what they can tolerate.....If I can find something that will help with these adrenaline surges I am going to take it....I know there are risks and it is my decision.  I do agree that I have to work on accepting these side effects and with distraction but I have read where others have suffered horribly for years and if I can find something to help with this anxiety I plan on trying it instead of trying to endure for years.

 

Hi, Downtongirl.

 

I've read through a lot of your thread, and what Yogagirl said was spot on. 

 

After  barely surviving being used as a psychiatric lab rat, I got out as cognitive decline was setting in. And after reading your thread, I don't think you realize the risks at all. While it is your decision whether or not to add in more drugs, let's make it an informed decision.

 

Have you read Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic? Please do so, as it will explain a lot of what's going on with you. You've gone from holding a job and even going back to college to now being out of work and struggling with even more symptoms, making your world get smaller and smaller.That's how these drugs work. It has nothing to do with how much you can tolerate regarding your symptoms, because in the end, the likelihood of these drugs doing more good than harm is not likely. 

 

In addition to Robert Whitaker, Dr. Peter Gotzsche also is a reality check for the dangers of these drugs: 

 

Interview with Peter Gøtzsche

 

So far, you've added on drugs and supplements to help with your taper, and now you're not able to work or go to school, and that's tragic, Downton, because that's not how it has to be.

 

Before you continue down this path, especially in light of your new interest in lithium, please check out Whitaker's book and listen to Dr. Gotzsche's video and really get informed because the real danger of cognitive decline is what may be your future. And if you end up unable to make the decisions for yourself, your doctor and husband will take over. Also, the longer this drags on by adding in more drugs that need to be tapered later, the more exhausted you become with this entire process. The fatigue alone brought me to my knees many times. 

 

I spent over 30 years on these drugs, starting from a very young age. And I'm off all drugs now and healing. The best advice I can give you is to read and watch videos and educate yourself on the long term use of these drugs. For any drug you add on that you become dependent upon, that adds more months and possibly even years to your prescription drug sentence, so to speak. And please also read this thread on kindling, as even short term use can cause problems: 

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

 

Once you start having the severe memory problems that these drugs create, it won't be up to you to decide what to do. The way you casually list these drugs as options is quite disturbing. 

 

You also may be dealing with what I call the "last drug syndrome". This is when someone gets down to their last drug and aren't able to accept the fact that they're about to take on life for the first time without drugs. I had this syndrome myself for awhile, and it wasn't until my mindfulness practice clicked that I was able to understand how strong I'd become and ready to take on life without anything to help me sleep or deal with anxiety or any other symptom. 

 

Just a thought because I've seen a lot of people get down to the very end of years of tapering off large cocktails and get stumped at the end.

 

And give yourself credit for getting off all that you have gotten off of. Getting off long term benzo use alone is no small accomplishment.

 

Sending healing vibes your way, downton. It really does get a lot better off these drugs. It will be wonderful to read that you came off these drugs and were able to go back to school. Take care of yourself so that's the end result of this journey. 

[grandmaD]

 

GrandmaD....propanolol is a beta blocker (heart/blood pressure) medication.  It helps block adrenaline and lowers heart rate.  .

 

I hope you both have a great day!

I hope you have a great day also!  Thanks for that info, IT IS VERY INTERESTING, as it could be what the dr. was going to give me a couple of days ago.  He said its name but I couldn't remember it but he did say it was a beta blocker.  He was about to write out the script but then discovered I have  a heart issue and said I couldn't have it!  It is good you got your heart checked out first.

 

You said you are too sensitive now to Prozac, so stopping it might be a good experiment to see if things improve.  You seem to have pretty good mornings at least.  With the other med you can sleep, that's a bonus too.

[downtongirl]

Shep I appreciate your well wishes and I wish you the very best also.

[grandmaD]

PS:  if you google "lithium toxicity" it isn't pretty.

 

I have a friend in the US who is a doctor, and when she heard I was on the lithium, she was crestfallen.  "It has," she said, "A narrow therapeutic window," which means that - how much is helpful is very close to how much is toxic.

 

My friend's mother collapsed in the mall from toxicity of lithium.  If I can find her letter, I will attach it later as it is a real eye-opener, not just for lithium but all psych drugs.  I think there might be lithium in some of the more modern a/ds too??

[downtongirl]

Hello GrandmaD....sorry to hear you have heart issues....my mother was born with a heart defect and her siblings and dad all had heart issues.  

 

Today is day two of propranolol and so far I have not had any real bad side effects that I can tell at this point.  It is helping to keep my heart rate down a LOT.  The adrenaline surges have been fewer and less in intensity today....I don't know if this is a fluke, a window, or if the propranolol is helping.  I am not suggesting you follow what I am doing or take any of the meds or supplements I am taking but you were interested so I thought I would let you know what was going on.

 

My morning was flat but this afternoon I spent about 3 hours at a pool outside in the sunshine and then went to dinner with my husband and feel pretty good this evening....thank GOD!

 

How has your day been?

[downtongirl]

Yoga girl and Shep....I appreciate your concern but I have an underlying panic disorder since I was 6 years old.  Through recent testing we have been able to determine something that I have suspected all along which is part of the reason for my anxiety disorder is genetically based.  I have a COMT gene mutation which does not enable me to break down dopamine and norepinephrine in my body properly.  I also have a MTHFR gene mutation which also can cause anxiety, depression and other mental disorders.  I understand there are risks with any medication and I do my research but if I can find something to help my panic and anxiety disorder other than an SSRI, Antipsychotic, or benzo I am going to use it.  I also had tests done that showed elevated norepinephrine levels and very low serotonin levels so we are trying to lower my very high norepinephrine levels.  if Propranolol or clonidine can help with these adrenaline surges and heart PVC's and heart rate I am going to take it.  I see no need for me to sit here and suffer when something like a beta blocker can help in the smallest way.

[nz11]

So, correct me if i am wrong but are you saying that what is manifesting right now is an underlying genetic anxiety/panic disorder ?