downtongirl: I want to become med-free

[downtongirl]

No NZ11 what I am saying is I have this so my preexisting panic disorder since childhood makes the withdrawal anxiety, adrenaline surges, unbearable for me.  Every person is different with regards to what they can handle.....One thing this experience has taught me is that I need not to judge what others do to try to take care of them selves because I am not them and in their circumstances.

[JanCarol]

Thanks JanCarol for your reply!

 

I am doing some things to try and address the core problems.....

 

I try to walk at the least 30 minutes a day

 

I try to get daily sunshine

 

When I can I also do the coloring

 

I attend church every week

 

I take fish oil and magnesium

 

I try to get a massage once a month...they are expensive

 

I take a few epsom salt baths each week

 

Things I want or would like to do....

 

water aerobics

 

water yoga

 

tai chi

 

getting some relaxing spa type music

 

meditation

 

These are moving towards what you want, and who you want to be.

 

You may have to pass through and work with the "childhood anxiety / panic" issues - which may have been precipitated by trauma, abuse, or even an allergy to wheat, or red dye.  

 

When you get uncomfortable, move towards these things that you want.  Don't move away from the uncomfortable.  Shift your focus.

 

All of us have had to do this - it is the only true key I have towards "mental health."   But it's hard work, and doesn't come in a capsule or tablet.

[downtongirl]

Ok how do I NOT move away from the uncomfortable and shift my focus?

[tntd]

Hi Downtongirl,

 

I'm glad you were able to have a good afternoon and evening yesterday.

 

I recently was given a link to this video by Claire Weeks. I think it describes how not to move away from the uncomfortable pretty well. She talks a lot about panic disorder and she experienced it herself. I have found it to be a wonderful resource in trying to understand and learn how to do what JanCarol is talking about.

 

http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg

 

I hope that it helps you as well and I hope you are having another good day.

[downtongirl]

Thanks T....I will take a look at it.

 

I hope you feel better real soon!

[tntd]

Thanks Downtongirl,

 

I hope you feel better today as well. Sounds like we both have the icks today!!

 

Hugs

[downtongirl]

Hugs to you too!  

[downtongirl]

Well the nausea, dizziness, and crying has shown up....this is to be expected in my situation.

[AliG]

DG.

 

Ok how do I NOT move away from the uncomfortable and shift my focus?

 

Learn to sit with it - go through it - " lean  into it " with a curious yet positive attitude. Yoga and meditation can help this.  If that doesn't work - " change the channel. "

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/846-change-the-channel-dealing-with-cognitive-symptoms/

 

Guided meditations can help but so can music, going for a walk , sitting in the sun  or even lighting some scented candles / incense or oil burner with your favorite oil.  Perhaps even a magnesium bath or some yoga poses.

 

It's all about finding soothing ways and practices that work for you.

Ali

[downtongirl]

Thank you AliG....I will try some of these as my body and mind let me....right now I have been switching from trying to lie down and rest to nausea and throwing up, to crying, to just being able to sit here....might try a bath when the nausea calms down.

[downtongirl]

I'm sorry for being negative with what I am about to post....I am probably ungrateful but I have been trying to keep what I am about to share to myself but I have to get it out....

 

From the beginning I have never had any support from family with my panic disorder.  I was always told to just get over it and was made to feel like when I was having a panic attack that I was an embarrassment and inconvenience.  Fast forward to being married...well my husband was in the military and we moved with our one year old daughter out of state and I have a panic attack in a restaurant and started crying....my husband looked at me and said can you not do that here in public?  

 

Well I feel awful and like it is all my fault so I stuff it down inside.  I have a couple more panic attacks and soon I become pregnant with our second child.  I have a couple of panic attacks while pregnant even going to the doctors one time and they just gave me an IV of something and I calm down.  During this time my husband and I go to marital counseling but it didn't work....it wasn't all his fault.

 

We then have our son and I experience post partum depression/anxiety again....I had this really bad after our first child was born....he offered no help then either.  I end up hospitalized after the post partum anxiety after the birth of our second child.  Of course this began being on meds.  Through the years I would every now and again have panic attacks and no one in my family offered any real help.  No one offered to help me seek out therapist or doctors.  Everyone just said to get over it and if I wanted to get better bad enough I would.  Well I begin going to counseling for a couple of years to work on myself.  I begged my husband to go with me but he would not.  

 

Fast forward to me trying to get off of medicine.  I can't tell you the number of times I have begged, pleaded and cried for my husband to help me.  I have asked him to help me research things to help or help me research doctors who help people with withdrawal but he doesn't.  I e-mail him links of things from here or other websites or articles about withdrawal from the internet and ask him to read them and he doesn't.  He won't give me an explanation as to why he won't but he doesn't.  The only thing he says is how would that help me.  

 

I have been hospitalized 4 times due to withdrawal reactions.  Two times he refused to take me even when I told him I felt suicidal....his response was I will call you a cab.  When I asked him why he won't take me he says he doesn't like hospitals because he had to be in them when he was young due to strep throat.  I remember once when I was hospitalized the doctor told him he wanted to have a meeting with him and my husband never showed up for the meeting.  

 

There have been mornings when I would be standing in our driveway begging him not to leave me and to stay home from work....he has like a month of vacation saved up....and he just walks away and goes to work.

 

He never calls me from work to see how I am doing and I have expressed to him that this hurts me.

 

When I have been in the hospital due to withdrawal reactions over the past couple of years my adult children won't even come see me because they don't like hospitals.  No one in my family comes to see me. My parents are no longer living and I feel so alone.

 

Just a few moments ago I came out of the bedroom from lying down and started crying...he said why is wrong I said I feel awful and told him it was withdrawal that I was nauseous and had been throwing up.  His response was nothing...he just keep watching his movie...went into the kitchen and fixed himself a snack.  He never once asked me if I needed anything or what he could do to help.  

 

I think I will write a letter detailing all of this and if the day comes I do committee suicide maybe someone will find it and will read it at my funeral and then people will understand I had no support and won't blame me for being weak.  

 

My husband views suicide as selfish.  This is also the man who was told by my doctors that he should change his career field that leaving me with two small children was too much stress for me when he would go on month, 6 month or year long deployments but he refused to change his career.  This is also the man who when I went into labor with our second child (after he and I had an argument) told me he was too tired from having worked a very long day and our argument to drive me to the hospital...he said I can call you a cab so I drove myself to the hospital at like 1 in the morning.  As I was leaving to drive myself to the hospital he said call me when they get ready to do the c-section.

 

I know I am feeling sorry for myself and I know some might ask why do I stay in this marriage and my answer is I have no way to support myself other wise and I have no where to go.  

 

I know our marital problems are not al his fault but I just get so hurt that he is so dedicated to supporting his fellow military troops and I am glad he is ....he would lay down his life for them but he won't make a phone call to help me or go with me to a doctors appointment but will get mad at me for the way things are with my withdrawal situation.  He just wants me to take a pill (klonopin) and go to sleep as he says.

 

I have put so much energy into trying to not let my withdrawal affect my family....I have put so much energy into trying to keep things as "NORMAL" as possible and keep up appearances like I am a normal person....you know cooking, running errands, doing laundry, going out in public, make up, dressed up, smiling, socializing....being supportive of my adult kids...doing for others but no one does anything to help me.....I am about to the point where I want to tell my family ....sorry I am in withdrawal....it may be like this forever....there is not a lot I can do about it....no I won't be like most other wives/moms who aren't house bound, who work, who socialize, who exercise, who laugh, who want to do things, who aren't having melt downs....I am sorry it affects you but I can no longer control it.

[AliG]

I'm sorry DG and I get it . It's unpleasant and disturbing on many levels. I feel like I've been through a " perfect storm" and didn't know if I would get through it but I can speak from experience now to say that if you buckle down with determination , you will get through and come out the other side a changed person.

Ali

Edit : posted before previous post

[downtongirl]

Thank you AliG...I appreciate you saying that!

[AliG]

DG. I just saw your last post as I was writing my last reply and I can actually relate to your dilemma on a few different levels. I have  a workaholic husband who is not that great with words. Fortunately , he shows affection in other ways but there have been times during my drug journey that I have found him seriously lacking ! LOL.  I have learned to rely on myself and my own intuition.

 

For some reason I thought you were younger but like you , I have adult children that I love dearly but can at times be   - what is the word ? - selfish.

I have learned to be that way at times also when I have to  and now  I don't give a toss what others think , particularly family and /or friends. I'm over trying to please everybody.

 

Your husband probably feels helpless, as mine did but I have slowly educated him on this topic. he never stops so I used to read parts of " Anatomy Of An Epidemic" by Robert Whittaker, out to him while he was on the move. Now , he " gets it" and is my biggest supporter.

 

I talk about it all the time , as it has impacted my life so dramatically. There were definitely times that I didn't think I would get through, but somehow managed. It can be done. Just hold on , but while you're doing that learn and then learn some more. Read all that you can .

You can do this, but you have to get off the drugs as they are life -destroying in the long term.

Ali

[downtongirl]

Thank you for your post AliG.  I am glad your husband came around.  I too have tried reading this to him...even made him read on here a few times...it just makes him mad when I make him read about withdrawal.  

 

Unfortunately my husband does not show support in anyway...not physically or verbally.  He will not hug me or hold my hand....I beg for back rubs, etc. and he just complains and finds excuses.  To be honest if we have sex it is left up to me and that is about 6 times a year.  He always makes excuses to why he doesn't want to have sex.  I have asked him why he stays married to me if he doesn't want to share affection and he says he doesn't want a divorce.  I can't figure it out.  I don't get birthday, mother's day, anniversary presents etc.  He knows this hurts me.  I have given up hope he will change.  We have been married for 25 years and he is not going to change.  i have tried changing my ways...being more supportive and less needy but it doesn't do any good.  It is like we are just two people legally married, parents and house mates...we usually don't even sleep in the same room.

 

I have been lying on the floor crying after throwing up or pacing around the house in panic and he just ignores me.  

 

If he were to see a fellow soldier in need he would jump through hoops to help them.

 

I honestly feel like he wants me to die...I think this would be a relief to him.  When I have told him I wish I would die he never says...please don't even think or or don't I need you...oh well...I have tried my best.

[herewego]

I am sorry that your husband has been so hard towards you for so long. I am glad you are able to share how you are feeling and what you have gone thru here. Do you have any friends you can share this with as well? If you can't connect with your husband it would be good if you could connect with others who are more loving and supportive. I wish you the best

[downtongirl]

Thank you herewego...unfortunately no I don't have any friends who I can share this with....I had a friend about 2 years ago whom I shared my anxiety and withdrawal struggles with and when I had been in the hospital and the doctors jerked me off of my 15 year klonopin...took me off not due to abuse but due to their policy to take everyone off when they come in the psych ward...anyway after jerking me off they send me home after 10 days and about 2 weeks at being home withdrawals were to the point I couldn't handle it so I called my friend to take me back to the hospital and while in the car I was crying uncontrollably and yelling because I was so scared and frustrated and she says after that experience she now has PTSD and can't be around me....that was 2 years ago so I no longer rely on friends because in my experience I have found them to be unreliable.  I know not everyone is this way it has just been my bad luck.  

 

I wish you the best too!

[herewego]

That is unfortunate. Maybe a support group that is like this one here but meeting in person? It's not good to be emotionally alone.

[downtongirl]

I agree...I have searched for a support group to address withdrawal but can't find one....wish they had an AA for antidepressant withdrawals.

[Shep]

Downton, thank you for sharing this part of the journey with us. I also can relate to the feeling of isolation. It's truly at an inhuman level. 

 

Are there any groups at your church that you could join? Even if it's it not related to withdrawal, perhaps it would still be a safe place to go. 

 

I'm finding that as I recover from these drugs, that feeling of desperate isolation is not as bad in windows. And nothing else has changed - I'm still going through this alone.

 

So I'm hoping you find this to be true, too. I think these drugs separate us from ourselves, creating an even more isolated feeling. But it's temporary. We heal from this, too. And life will get better. 

[savinggrace]

Hi Downton Girl,

 

It broke my heart to read your story; one which took a whole lot of energy and courage to write.  Please give yourself credit for that.

 

I sympathize with you in so many ways.  I can't relate to the part about an unsupportive husband though we have had arguments in which I have noted that he does little to no research on ways in which to help me...which he doesn't.  In fact I read your whole post to him, and I think it made him a little uncomfortable...the part about refusing to read and learn anything on his own (in other words, help me help myself).  He has plenty of time to browse the internet on things of interest to him, but spends no time trying to find ways to help me.  I can't imagine what I would be doing if the tables were turned, but I am relatively sure that I would go to the ends of the earth to help him.  I would read anything and everything.  On every other account he has been loyal and caring and supportive.  He ended his career 5 years early because his 14 hour work days were scary for both of us as I was just not well enough to be left to my own devices as I had been for the previous 10 years.  So on most levels I am blessed and fortunate to have this man in my life for 45 years. Back to you though...

 

These words you wrote could have been written or spoken by me at any given time for the last 15 years...

 

"I have put so much energy into trying to not let my withdrawal affect my family....I have put so much energy into trying to keep things as "NORMAL" as possible and keep up appearances like I am a normal person....you know cooking, running errands, doing laundry, going out in public, make up, dressed up, smiling, socializing....being supportive of my adult kids...doing for others but no one does anything to help me..."

 

Oh, I cried when I read that.  "Pretending" and "acting" like we are normal sucks the life out of us.  It makes us just want to give up.  It is so wrong.  We have to constantly hide how we are truly feeling...how sick we are.  My husband often says "if you shave your head like you had cancer" people would have sympathy for you.  Clearly I have a socially unacceptable illness and would be deemed an addict by most.  That's why I keep the truth to myself.  People can think what they want, but I will not be stigmatized by the "addict" label because no one tries to understand the difference between physical dependence and abuse.

 

As far as support, you have none and I weep for you.  I have tried a few things for support and was wondering if anything like these things would work for you.  For 3 years I attended a support group for fibromyalgia.  Sure I have many of the symptoms of fibromyalgia which I am not sure I even consider a real disease but that is another topic!  The point is I had a forum and social outlet with people who were tired and physically unwell and many of them were depressed.  I never shared my medication issues with them, but I did share physical stuff and coping/wellness strategies I have used. I developed relationships with several people and they continued outside the monthly meeting.  One of those relationships morphed into a really honest one in which I told the "real" story. Attending this group helped me feel like I belonged somewhere.  We had each others' phone numbers and chose to opt in or out of phone calls if someone was needing help.  There are also support groups for people who suffer from depression.  I found them in the newspaper and on-line.  I never attended one (i saw a therapist weekly instead) but you could consider something like that.  I am not sure a depression group would not encourage medication, but you may be able to share that no medication has helped you, and be in the presence of others who are suffering, perhaps for different reasons.  I don't think this would be an appropriate place to share your withdrawal issues, but you could probably share your life issues and the very real depression and anxiety that you experience almost all the time.

 

I understand why you don't feel you can leave your husband.  I feel the same way.  I often want to leave him so HE can have a better life!  I guess you just have to work on the acceptance that he is never going to be your support person.  He is your roommate.  Having no expectations from him, other than supporting you, is probably your best coping mechanism.  I wish one of your kids would step up, but that doesn't seem to be an option, and I can tell you, that one out of three of my sons tries to be there for me, but his youth (31) and lack of life experience make him not really qualified for the job!  Just tonight I was hoping for some empathy from him because I was feeling so lost and helpless, and he really seemed almost apathetic.  It hurt and he is the best out of the three!    Our kids are never going to be our support.

 

Downton girl, this story you told today is very telling in itself.  You need to look for the support you need.  You won't get it all...nobody gets all the support they need because in the end we are left to our own devices, but you need to look for someone you can connect with on a personal level.  You need someone to hug you and love you for the person you are, just as you are.  I will hope that you find that.

 

Meanwhile, thank you for sharing your story because it helps so many others who are in the same situation and are afraid or ashamed to share it.  The more we hide our problems, the bigger the stigma gets attached to it.  If only everyone had the courage to be honest about their "real" lives.  This world would be a much more compassionate world to live in.

 

Big hug,

Grace

[downtongirl]

Thanks Shep and Grace....I truly appreciate your taking the time to read my lengthy post which was a pity party for myself.  I know so many others have it far worse than I do but I needed to release some frustration.  Your words really mean a lot to me and I am sending you both hugs and best wishes.

[grandmaD]

Hello GrandmaD....sorry to hear you have heart issues....my mother was born with a heart defect and her siblings and dad all had heart issues.  

 

Today is day two of propranolol and so far I have not had any real bad side effects that I can tell at this point.  It is helping to keep my heart rate down a LOT.  The adrenaline surges have been fewer and less in intensity today....I don't know if this is a fluke, a window, or if the propranolol is helping.  I am not suggesting you follow what I am doing or take any of the meds or supplements I am taking but you were interested so I thought I would let you know what was going on.

 

My morning was flat but this afternoon I spent about 3 hours at a pool outside in the sunshine and then went to dinner with my husband and feel pretty good this evening....thank GOD!

 

How has your day been?

I suspect my heart problem is the result of tapering. 

 

What you are on does sound like what he was going to give me because he said it would suppress the adrenalin rushes.  I was awake for hours in the night with it (palpitations) and again all day today, it certainly is distressing and as a result I am extremely tired.  I am glad for you to get some relief though.

 

Thanks for asking, so kind of you but still not seeing any improvement.  No strength/energy and very lethargic but have not had any more severe back spasms or stiff necks, so that's good.  I started walking around our house again, building it up from 5mins now up to 15mns so that's good.  Last night I had severe indigestion which was quite painful with the aching guts problem still distressing also.  Have gone back to basic foods that I know are tolerable!

 

It is interesting you are having good mornings and now a good afternoon, perhaps it was the prozac making you worse?  How beautiful to be able to go out for dinner with your husband!

[Shep]

Thanks Shep and Grace....I truly appreciate your taking the time to read my lengthy post which was a pity party for myself.  I know so many others have it far worse than I do but I needed to release some frustration.  Your words really mean a lot to me and I am sending you both hugs and best wishes.

 

 

Oh no, Downton - what you posted was NOT a pity party at all. When you post looking for other drugs to add on, that's a pity party.

 

What you just posted was a beautifully written and honest narrative of truth. You have obstacles in your way other than drugs and withdrawal. Naming them is key. It shows insight and growth.

 

These are important factors in recovering from the drug trauma. 

 

And it will get better and you will get stronger and gain even more insight. This is your life and you have every right to your own narrative. In time, you may wish to find a counselor (one who doesn't prescribe drugs) and work on some things. There are many ways to overcome these obstacles, and once you're off drugs and heal, you'll have a lot more options than when you're sick. So hold onto thoughts like that. It will get better. 

 

And in the end, you get to create your own baseline, you get to write your own future narrative. That's when the REAL healing happens. It's a process. And you've already started that process. 

[downtongirl]

Good morning Shep...hope you are feeling well today...thank you for the kind words it really means a lot.

 

Well today I am very dizzy...feel drunk????. Funny in some ways...not funny in others...currently at the orthodontist office...yes I have braces for the first time in my late 40's. Wondering if I will make it the entire time I am lying there with someone poking around inside my mouth with out throwing up...we'll see.

 

I don't know if this feeling is withdrawal or if I am becoming a jackass but I am starting not to care if I have withdrawal symptoms that others see me have...I have tried my best to control the withdrawal and I'm tired of trying to control it.

[tntd]

Hi Downtongirl,

 

I read your story and my heart goes out to you and the ordeal you have been going through. I'm glad you shared with us as well. It helps us all to better help one another when we know some of each others stories. 

 

I'm amazed you can get out with how you are  feeling and I hope you made it through your appointment without throwing up. 

 

I don't think it is being a jackass to not care if other peple know or see you have withdrawal symptoms. They may not understand but it doesn't matter. This withdrawal can make it hard to hide if you have a crying spell in public or need to throw up. I have to wonder if trying to control the withdrawal instead of accepting it and letting it be has made it harder, more intense and possibly even longer lasting. 

 

I often hear that we shouldn't push ourselves to hard or it can cause us to go backwards. Don't worry about others, take care of yourself, be compassionate with yourself, be gentle with yourself. This is not being a jackass it is being smart and it will help you heal.  

 

Hugs

[downtongirl]

Thanks T!  I did make it through my orthodontist appointment without throwing up and I even made it to the grocery store, went to the pool for 3 hours....loved soaking up that sunshine....went to supper with my husband and son, made it through Wal-Mart without yelling at anyone so I guess today was a pretty good day.  How was your day?

[downtongirl]

Well....I am scared right now....I think I am having a window.  I woke up feeling ok....dizzy this morning went to pool this afternoon...felt good in the sunshine....felt better each hour that past by today...right now I am mostly relaxed....I have had moments today where I felt normal...the normal I felt before medications.  The reason this scares me is I felt this way for most of last October, November and half of December after stopping prozac back in September of last year then I had that severe crash in January....I am scared I will start feeling pretty good most days then hit bottom again.  I am only about 2 weeks off and I know it can take about 3 months for prozac to be completely out of your system.

[Martina23]

Hi, forget about the last time. Because if you will worry, then you will see the symptoms two times worse and they dont have to be like last time. Maybe this time they will come very mild and you will make it. Enjoy feeling good. That is what is now.

[downtongirl]

Thanks Martina23.

 

Question for the veterans out there....when I feel surges of adrenaline or what it sometimes feels like hypomania....should I try to sit still...fight the feelings and chill...or should I use the energy and be active.  I don't want to over do things because I am afraid that will set off symptoms but for the past 9 months I have been trying to just sit still literally and wait for the adrenaline surges to pass and I am not sure that has been helpful.  It seems to keep excess energy inside of me when I do that....what are your thoughts?

[apace41]

Downtown,

 

First off, the easy answer is to listen to your body and if you feel good with the rushes and in a strong place, go ahead and do things without pushing yourself too hard -- again, listen to your body.

 

The answer in the "zen" context is to learn to accept the rushes so that they don't force you outside of your comfort zone and you can do what you were otherwise going to do (or not do) with the rushes going on around you.

 

True confession:  Those who can't do teach.  I suck at this.  Shep is really good at it. 

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Martina23]

I would use the energy and be active but only so much that your rational mind approves of that.

I still have it sometimes. But by me it is more like intrusive thought. Like in the night by falling asleep an idea comes to me what it would feel like paint through the whole night, then I get scared that I will get manic, imagine already how I will get psychotic, how they bring me to hospital and medicate me until falling down, and then I tell myself stop this thought, we will not stay awake the whole night, now we will sleep, and till now I always fell asleep and till now I never went manic (knock on the wood)

[brassmonkey]

The feelings, sensations, and symptoms that we experience are, for the short term, a part of our life because we physically can't get away from them.  They are a real part of us. They should not become the entire focus of our life. At times, like during acute WD, they will be very prominent, but the rest of the time they need relegated to the background. Distraction is hugely successful in helping keep those symptoms in the background. So with in reason, yes, get out and do things. Pay attention so that you don't over do it like you said, but go for walks in the park, meet up with friends, take a night class in pottery making. Don't "make yourself" do things, "let yourself do them".

[ChessieCat]

Whilst checking out something for another member I found this post.

 

I especially like this comment within Punarbhava's post:

 

"Fear of any symptom guarantees an increase in suffering, not to mention increase in anticipatory anxiety/fear/stress etc."

[tntd]

Hey dg,

 

I'm glad you had a good day yesterday. I hope your day was just as good today. Sounds like some great advice from everybody. I think I'll take some of that advice too. 

 

Hugs

[downtongirl]

Thanks everyone....today was another good day....slept pretty well...yes I still take 25 mg of trazadone but I will tackle that med one day when I am over prozac withdrawal....went back to the pool for another couple of hours of sunshine and relaxation....went by myself but enjoyed it....cooked supper and have been watching the olympics today....only a couple of the adrenaline surges today....brain zaps are less....no crying spells....a couple of episodes of feeling flat this morning but pleased with today for sure....fighting the feelings of when I catch myself feeling relaxed and content I will then thing...but hey don't get used to it you know what is coming in a few weeks....the delayed withdrawal as the prozac takes forever to get out of my system.

 

I hope everyone has a great nights sleep and day tomorrow!