downtongirl: I want to become med-free

[Shep]

This is such a great post, Downton. So glad you're feeling better. 

[downtongirl]

Thanks Shep...I really appreciate it.

 

Slept pretty well last night....so far not quite 3 weeks off of prozac my daily patterns seem to be...

 

wake up...feel ok...a little anxiety and cortisol surges

 

eat breakfast

 

1 fish oil

 

from 11 am - 1 pm I feel flat, sore, muscle aches, sad

 

go to the pool from about 2 pm - 5 pm...feel more relaxed and enjoy the sunshine....don't hurt as much and feel more awake

 

cook supper....eat....

 

6:30 pm I start to get more nervous energy....not bad but frustrated and agitated...maybe that is because my husband is home and we aren't really speaking to each other too much right now

 

7 p - 8 p....I try to go for a walk...some days it's 20 minutes some days it's 45 minutes

 

8:30 pm....1 fish oil

 

10 pm....magnesium glycinate

 

11pm....25 mg of trazadone

 

sleep from about 12 am - 2 pm...wake up go to the bathroom and have been able to go to sleep until about 7 am

 

I just hope I feel this good 6 months from now...?????

[downtongirl]

Need some advice from those who are supplement and or gene mutation savy.....I have posted previously bout the fact that this spring I got some genetic testing back and I have some gene mutations....

 

homozygous C677T MTHFR  and COMT (Catechol-O-Methyltransferase)

 

I tried treating the MTHFR with Deplin....15 mg of L-Methylfolate and that back fired on me so I quit that.

 

The test results suggest that I take the following supplements...

 

for the MTHFR mutation....B12 Methylcolabanum, NAC, Vitamin C, Vitamin D

 

for the COMT mutation....B6, Magnesium, and Methionine, Tumeric.....I currently take Magnesium and don't seem to have any adverse effects from it....

 

Do any of the above scream out to anyone that would be bad?  I know it is different for everyone and I will just have to take a chance.  I have taken Vitamin D before and did well with it.  I also took the B12 methyl and B6 in the spring and don't remember anything bad from those.  

 

What I am most concerned about is the Methionine.  It says on my print out that the methionine and B6 should be taken to help support formation of S-adenosylmethionine (SamE) but I have read on this website that samE can bee activating so that scares me.  It also says on my print out and in m y online research that COMT is responsible for breaking down dopamine and norepinephrine....I wonder if that contributes to my elevated norepinephrine levels?  Any thoughts?

[savinggrace]

Hi Downton Girl,

 

I think I have posted to you before that I have a similar MTHFR mutation and I absolutely cannot tolerate any B vitamins...and I have tested to be very deficient.  B vitamins are known to be quite activating and they throw me into worse w/d after one dose.   I only isolated B12 and tried it, as that was my biggest deficiency, but I am guessing that were I to take a multi-B, or other B's, it wouldn't be good.

 

I try not to over-analyze or over-worry or over-research this.   I try to eat as wide a variety of foods as possible, which isn't easy given my GI problems, and hope to cover the deficiencies.  I often think about how people in other countries survive on just rice or potatoes or something, so surely my relatively healthy American diet will be adequate.  It may not be ideal, but it is adequate.

 

I think you can drive yourself crazy with research.  Perhaps you should just stop researching all the problems you might have, or might get, and just work on managing the symptoms you are having now.  You are so near the end of all your drugs...you have plenty of time to make up for deficiencies in the future. 

 

You can always try trial and error with anything to see what happens, but in your tenuous state right now, I wouldn't take anything I didn't have to.  The best thing you can do for your long-term health is get off the drugs and stay off the drugs.

 

Grace

[downtongirl]

Woke up by surged of anxiety this morning a do am very dizzy....I guess my body is getting rid of more of the Prozac. In some ways I feel so very much better being off of Prozac. Who knows what today will bring.

[Martina23]

Dizziness will disappear. I felt also dizzy after carbocaine, but within one month it was away. It is only that the body has to get rid of all drug reserves and start again functioning.

[tntd]

Hi D,

 

Wish I could help with the supplements. I have never been tested to see if I have any gene mutations. Was there something that made you decide to get tested? Did you have symptoms of some sort?

 

I am familiar with the morning adrenaline surges. I have them every morning. We put in black out shades and I use a sleep mask. They helped with making the surges occur later in the morning but they still happen. I try to do deep breathing, sometimes combined with counting, and sometimes I can doze off again but that usually results in another adrenaline surge waking me up not much later. I have to take a medication at around 7 - 7:30 and it makes me sleepy/dizzy so I usually try to stay in bed until after the side effects from that med have passed. I will do a meditation track on my mp3 after I take my med and then I can usually get about another 1/2 hour of sleep before the anxiety/adrenaline surges get to be too much.

 

Have your afternoon/evening adrenaline surges gone away? Are you taking the propanolol? 

[grandmaD]

I was wondering if the proponol is helping with the adrenalin surges?

[downtongirl]

I stopped taking it a few days ago....I have to have a stress test done and the instructions say I have to not be on beta blockers prior to the test but I have noticed that the adrenaline surges are not as intense....I am not sure what to attribute this too.  I have been going to the pool in the afternoons everyday this week and I have not been on the beta blocker since this past weekend so I don't know if the sunshine is helping or if I am in a window of sorts.  How are you GrandmaD?

[grandmaD]

Let us know how your stress test goes!  I failed mine as I couldn't even walk on the treadmill, let alone RUN!  You sound more fit if you can swim, so that is great, keep it up.  I tried swimming but it made me worse and gave me a 3 day headache afterwards.  I would like to try swimming again when I stabilise to a good place.  I read that exercise can help with adrenaline surges, so it was probably the swimming that is helping and the sunshine can't do any harm, it is always healing.

 

I am not too bad, woke with a headache which isn't too bad, just sore on the side of my head now  - bit more energy but still slow but managed to walk around the house 4 times today instead of 3.  I had 24 hours of intense palpitations 2 days ago.   I had a halter moniter put on yesterday, but no palpitions last night, probably because I was so exhausted from them the day before.  I get it off this arvo.  It is to test the heart.

[downtongirl]

Too funny...not really but we have to try and laugh....I have had hotter monitors before and I swear once the dang thing goes on my symptoms (heart palpitaitons) are better...still there but better...then once the dang thing is taken off the heart palpitations increase like the next day....I think I need to wear a week long one.  I had a friend who wore one for a month.  

 

Don't be fooled when I say go to the pool I mean just that I go to the pool...I lie on the lounge chair....I get in the water and float with one of those noodle things....I try to swim a lap and do some simple water exercises but I would not say I am swimming....I would like to work up to doing water aerobics in September...we will see.

 

Good for you with the extra lap around the house!

 

I will update when I have my stress test done...it is not for another week or so I think....I doubt I will be able to run much at all either.

[downtongirl]

Today was another pretty good day....

 

woke up more dizzy than previous days but after breakfast I had some energy mixed with agitation so I decided to not sit and let it pass but use it and pushed mowed my entire yard, ran the weed eater and edged the yard, pulled weeds, ran an errand, went to the pull for a few hours, went to eat supper with my husband and son, unloaded the dish washer, took the dog for a walk and have been chilling this evening.  

 

Brain zaps seem to be mostly in the morning with a couple in the afternoon and then some at night but they are more like jolts instead of sharp zaps.

 

Still experiencing some mood swings through out the day which I hate.

 

I am about 3 weeks off of prozac so there is still some left in my system so I don't know if it is too early to consider the past 4 days a window?

[Martina23]

You did pretty a lot. If you have some problems from this tomorrow dont worry, it is mostly after first time when you do a lot of exercise. It should settle very quickly and then you will be already used on a lot of activity and feel well.

[downtongirl]

Hello Martina23...yes that was quite a lot for me...it felt so stinking good...I slept pretty well last night and did not have the anxiety, cortisol surges to wake me up this morning...feeling optimistic about the day!

[downtongirl]

I wanted to add that I started 5 mg of lithium orotate by the Vital Nutrients brand. I took it with my supper. Maybe it was just a fluke but my sleep was much better last night and did not wake up with the morning cortisol/anxiety attacks. The reason I am trying this supplement is because of my MTHFR and COMT gene mutations. Lithium orotate is supposed to lower norepinephrine whic is what is out of balance for me. I am not saying I am bipolar I don't really know...I think even as a child I have had some of the tendencies of bipolar disorder and have seen those tendencies in other family members. Having researched the gene mutations that I have a lot of the symptoms of the gene mutations fit me. Lithium orotate may not be of any benefit to me but i am hoping for less fluctuations in mood and lowered norepinephrine. We shall see.

[AliG]

DG . Bipolar is a bit of a myth. I'm sure you just have prolonged drug disorder . I would get off the lithium in any form. As we have already said - chemical imbalance is an idea perpetuated by the drug companies.

[downtongirl]

I understand AliG....it is a risk I am willing to take...if it doesn't work out I will have tried....I am one of those people who if there is a chance something can be improved I am going to take it.

[Martina23]

Hi, I am happy that you did feel well today. With respect to lithium, I agree with Ali. I personally would not take it. You dont really know if this Lithium is not harming the brain, but yes if you want to try, try it. Earlier in withdrawal I had also some days when I felt a bit hypomanic. But it solved itself, it never turned into anything serious. I think the brain needs only to rebalance itself.

[downtongirl]

Thanks Matina23....hope you are having a great day!  I hear you loud and clear and the lithium rotate may do nothing good at all and may be bad....I will post my results as I see them.

[scallywag]

Hi DG -- would you update your signature to include when you started lithium supplementation? Thanks.

[downtongirl]

Sure thing!

[downtongirl]

Well....I had a really wonderful day yesterday....got up ate breakfast, took the dog for a walk, sat in the sun for a while, went shopping with my husband for a few hours out of town, came home and enjoyed watching tv last night....felt relaxed and slept really well last night.  The only symptoms I seemed to have yesterday were....

 

3 of the hot flash/adrenaline/surges ....they were very brief and mile

 

I really think that was about it as far as symptoms yesterday....I felt so good so normal that I caught myself for a short time even forgetting about having antidepressant withdrawal.

 

This morning I woke up felt really well, relaxed, content, etc.  I went to church and started experiencing some stomach issues....not to be gross but gas cramping.  After church we went to lunch and shortly after lunch my mood started declining and started feeling flat, tired, etc.  I have also been experiencing elevated physical anxiety symptoms the past couple of hours.  I have a feeling my body is really getting rid of the remaining prozac and the pit of hell is coming.

 

My current symptoms are....

 

tingling feeling in my legs

gas cramps

a little bit of nausea

anxiety

heart palpitations

frustration

 

I feel like crying....I almost hate having what I consider a window of a week to only have it end.

[tntd]

Hi D,

 

Glad to hear you had such a wonderful day yesterday. I'm sorry to hear that you seem to be starting into a wave. Try to hold onto how good you felt last week. It may help you hold on until the next window. Hopefully it will be a short wave and so it will be easy to hold onto the memories of the window. I know how hard it can be. I wish there was more I could do for you.

 

My thoughts are with you,

 

Hugs

[downtongirl]

Thanks T....I know in my mind you are correct....I am just really worried because me, my family, and extended family were planning on a short beach vacation soon and have made reservations since a few months ago so I hope I can make it and enjoy it....I hate not being able to plan anything....there are a couple of events coming up....one in September, one in October, and one in November that I have been invited to and don't feel confident in responding with a Yes I can make it....because who knows how I will be feeling....I think even when I tell a select few people that I am in withdrawal they expect it to be like you see on tv or with other types of withdrawal when you feel awful for a few days or weeks and then it is done....I wish it was like that.  I feel my life is being held hostage and than even when I feel good I can't allow myself to enjoy it because a wave is coming.

[tntd]

Hey D, I know what you mean about your life being held hostage. There is no way to make plans because you don't know how you will feel tomorrow let alone in a month or more. I'm feeling pretty trapped by it all too. Especially because of the agoraphobia that I have so kind of literally trapped in my house.

 

I'm in a DBT group. One of the things they were teaching us last week was how to help yourself feel good everyday and kind of bank the feeling good by doing something that you like, doesn't work in withdrawal but anyway, one of the things they did say that I thought was really good because I do it too is to not let negative thinking ruin the moment. For example if you are on vacation and it's the last day don't let thinking about it being the last day ruin the last day for you. So we need to enjoy our windows and not worry about what will happen tomorrow. Just be in the minute. I struggle with it too but I thought I'd put it out there as something to try. 

[downtongirl]

Hello T and thanks for stopping by. I know that all of the suggestions you gave are true and I will try to implement them. I started feeling a littler calmer all be it flat last night after taking the fish oil and lithium orotate. I welcomed the calmness even though it had some flatness to it.

 

Sleep was weird in that for about the first hour I woke up not completely awake but for a couple of seconds I could tell I was coming out of a dream. This repeated itself for about an hour or two then I completely woke up went to the bathroom and was able to fall back asleep and slept pretty well for 6 hours straight.

 

This morning wanted to stay in bed and would still be there if I could nap which I can't. I got up feeling frustrated and a little weepy I don't know if that was due to frustration or withdrawal. No was able to go donate some clothes to a thrift store, get the car washed, took the dog for a short walk swing by the grocery store and started supper in the crock pot...I actually felt a little hypo manic during all of this and started to tackle the garage, attic, and closets to declutter and take stuff down to the thrift store but stopped myself and sat for a while and then had a banana for lunch and forced myself to come sit by the community pool to enjoy the exercise.

 

I am really worried about what I'll do for sun and to get myself out of the house once the pool closes in a couple of weeks. I think it has been good for me these past couple of weeks.

 

I have had some gas cramps and Hausa today not as bad as yesterday though. I did not take magnesium last night or this morning so I don't know if my increase in magnesium was the culprit yesterday or if it is just withdrawal. I am experiencing some vertigo and sensitivity to sounds. The sensitivity to sounds is presenting itself like brain vibrations or baby brain zaps.

 

I hope your day is going better hugs!

[tntd]

Hi D,

 

Glad to hear things evened out for you a bit last night. I know the relief from anxiety is so nice.

 

I'm glad you were able to get some good sleep despite the hour of weirdness. I usually get around six hours of sleep, according to my fitbit, though I wake with adrenaline surges and anxiety to start my day. No lounging in bed or napping for me either and it would be so nice if we could, at least occasionally!

 

I can't believe how busy you get. My anxiety causes me to not be able to do anything, including leave the house. When I get a window I can do stuff but I really have to be careful not to do to much. I'm glad you can get out and enjoy the sun. I can't believe summer is almost over and the pools will be closing. Do you have a backyard you can sit in the sun in, or a park nearby you can walk to?

 

I know I find it frustrating not knowing what is causing my stomach/abdominal problems too. If the gas cramps go away then maybe you could try the magnesium again to see if it comes back. If it does then you know it was the magnesium. If it is the magnesium maybe just start at a lower dose and work your way up.

 

I hope you have a good evening and the sound sensitivity goes away quickly. 

 

Hugs and healing to you.

[downtongirl]

Thanks T. I have thought about a park or just sitting outside maybe I can try that...as far as getting stuff done I wonder sometimes if it is akathesia that I am experiencing when I get this energy or if maybe I do have some hypomanic tendencies. It may just be that after so long since the first time I tried to be med free which was over 8 years ago to the not really being stable in the past 3 years I am just fed up and ticked off so it is my frustration that is fueling this energy. I have often been jealous of others on this forum who say they feel they sleep too much! I guess I get tired of sitting paralyzed in fear of waiting for the bottom to fall out so I sometimes just say screw it the bottom could fall out if I sit and wait for it or it could fall out if I get up and do something so I get up and do something and the fact that I accomplished something makes me feel a tiny bit normal...I don't really know what it's called...akathesia, hypomanic, agitation, frustrstion, fight or flight, or what?

[tntd]

Hey D,

 

Maybe I should try that out. I sit paralyzed in fear a lot. Everytime I start trying to do something I get so anxious I have to abandon it and do something that occupies my mind, which is usually sitting down in front of the computer. That usually works to stop the anxiety, but not always. I'm so agoraphobic that I usually don't open the blinds and I force myself to take my dog for a walk in the morning. That is usually the only time I get out during the day. 

 

I can't sleep either and I can't do much of anything else so I've ended up rather isolated, especially since we just moved so I really understand feeling jealous of others on here. Then there are others that are in such deep misery that I can't even imagine and hope I don't have to go down that road myself. 

 

I hear your frustration though.This withdrawal really takes its toll on us. Our lives, our minds, our bodies. Keep hoping for the best and enjoying the moments that you can. It's hard, at least I know it's hard for me, so I keep trying to remind myself to do this too. 

[tntd]

Hi D,

 

Just checking in to see how you are doing. I hope things have been going well for you. I hope you have been able to continue to enjoy sitting by the poolside in the sun while it is still open. 

 

I know you said your husband isn't supportive but if there are other people in your life who are you might want to share this with them. It is written for people in Benzo withdrawal but I think a lot of the symptoms and experiences are the same so they do apply. It is written by a Dr. Jennifer Leigh and she experienced benzo withdrawal first hand so she is writing from experience.

 

https://benzowithdrawalhelp.com/2012/08/05/how-to-support-a-loved-with-benzo-withdrawal-syndrome/ 

 

Hugs and healing.

[downtongirl]

Hey T....thanks for checking in on me and sorry for not getting back to you sooner but I have been at the beach.  I saw on your thread you have been in a small window...so very happy for you....thanks for the link I will read it.

[downtongirl]

Well it has been a few days since I updated.  I was able to take a short family vacation to the beach.  I had prayed God would allow me to be able to "keep it together" for the beach trip because I was going to be around extended family and I did not want them to see me have a melt down.  God answered my prayers and I was able to stay the entire trip without a meltdown.  I did have some mood swings like I have been having but they were not as severe.  I was able to hang out on the beach all day saturday, go out to eat, play putt-putt, go for a helicopter ride, etc.  I did stay up too late talking but it was worth the extra fatigue I am feeling today.

 

I had been having some gut issues last week with cramping, bloating, etc. so I reinstated my probiotic and that seems to be helping some.

 

I have been on the 5 mg of Lithium Rotate 1 x a day for 13 days.  I have not noticed any new bad side effects at this point.  I have noticed that it seems that my depression does not sink as low and my anxiety does not go as high.  It seems to level things out a bit which is one of the things Lithium Orotate is supposed to do.  I plan on continuing to keep taking it at the least for now and see how things go.

 

I am in menopause as I had a complete hysterectomy some years ago.  I had previously been on estradiol therapy but quit that a year ago.  I have been noticing that a LOT of my symptoms are identical to menopausal symptoms so I have decided to try bioidentical progesterone.  I am on 150 mg 1 x a day before bed.  I do notice it makes me feel a little calmer.  I have been on it now for 5 days.  I am not sure yet if it is helping me sleep or not.  My thinking is that....yes I am in antidepressant withdrawal but I am also in menopause and so maybe if I treat some of the menopause symptoms it will help with the withdrawal.  I know that if I want to go off of the progesterone it will need to be tapered also but to be honest if it helps at all I don't plan to go off.  I am also going to a new gynocologist who specializes in menopausal issues for women and who specializes in hormone replacement therapy and will talk to her about adding back estradiol later this week.

 

The week or so I have been waking up and been fairly energized through out the day maybe even too energized at times.  This morning I woke up really tired, flat, and irritable but this afternoon I have had a bad headache and fatigue so I actually went and laid down in my bed and dozed off to sleep for about an hour.  I can't tell you how long it has been since I have been able to take a nap with out it being medically induced.  I take that as a good thing all though the fatigue is a little depressing.  I guess I would rather have the fatigue than the over agitated anxiety/agitation/restlessness/energy.  I don't know how this nap will affect my sleep....I was just planning on lying down and did not think I was going to go to sleep because I haven't been able to do that in so long so I was surprised when I woke up.

 

My symptoms are pretty much the same as they have been but in varying degrees....this is how it breaks down....

 

Insomnia....still takes up to 2 hours to fall asleep and have to use trazadone to sleep at night

 

Brain Zaps....can have a couple of days where there aren't any and some days where they are there but mild

 

Increased heart rate/palpitations.....still there...some days better than others....I actually go for a stress test this week

 

anxiety....still waves of it through out the day...some days more than others...some days long periods of no anxiety

 

depression/flattness....still waves of this....they don't seem to last very long...some times they come on and peak with a little tearfulness but after I cry the low mood usually gets better quickly

 

muscle aches...still there

 

agitation....still there maybe a little better than last week

 

dizziness/vertigo....this has been much better over the past few days although I still have it

 

depersonalization/derealization/zombiness....seems better over the past week

[tntd]

Hi D,

 

So glad to hear that you were able to go on your vacation and that you had a good time. They say socialization helps us heal too so being around extended family was probably a really good thing.

 

You took a nap, I'm jealous I hope that you were able to sleep last night. 

 

My window was nice, I'm not sure where I am today but I think the window is gone. Had some family stressors that may have crashed it. It's too bad we can't live stress free lives while in withdrawal!!

 

I hope you are having a good day.

 

Hugs and healing

[downtongirl]

Well today has been weird....slept really well for me last night about 8 hours and only had to go to the bathroom once....but this afternoon I have ached something awful....all of my muscles hurt like I have the flu but I don't have the flu....is this normal for withdrawal?  I am also very fatigued this afternoon and ended up taking a one hour nap....that is two days in a row....enjoyed the nap but the fatigue and muscle aches are not fun.

[ChessieCat]

No 29 in Glemullen's Symptoms List is "Flu-like aches and pains"

[downtongirl]

Oh yeah me!  Do the flu-like symptoms last long?