Hazel: struggling with Paxil to Prozac bridge

[Hazel]

Thanks so much @wantrelief.

I am hoping to continue improving as well.  Hope you are doing well?

[wantrelief]

Thank you for asking how I am doing....I am ok, muddling along.  I am rooting for you, Hazel!  

[Hazel]

32 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

Thank you for asking how I am doing....I am ok, muddling along.  I am rooting for you, Hazel!  

Thanks-I am rooting for you too!  I hope things start getting easier for us soon!

[Rabe]

Fabulous to hear that the supplements are working for you, Hazel...what a blessing!!! 💜

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, Hazel. 6mg melatonin is a high dose, have you tried a lower dose?

[Hazel]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Good to hear, Hazel. 6mg melatonin is a high dose, have you tried a lower dose?

I haven’t tried a lower dose yet-was waiting to see how things go at 9mg paroxetine.  I will try lowering to 3 mg of the melatonin tonight.

[Rosetta]

Hazel, I hope today is a good one with a lot less anxiety!

[Hazel]

7 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Hazel, I hope today is a good one with a lot less anxiety!

Thanks Rosetta🙂. 

Today was not too bad.  Woke with anxiety as usual and it would come and go throughout the day, but not as bad as it was last week.  I seem to be feeling better, so I am really hoping things continue to improve so I can stabilize and just hold for a long while.

I really hope your day was better today?

 

[Hazel]

@Altostrata

I felt like I had been feeling better last week into this past weekend, but today has been really bad again.  The anxiety is so high right now I don’t know what to do.  It seems to have come out of nowhere.  Do you think this is a bad reaction to the increase?  I am at work right now and don’t know how I will get through the day.  I don’t get this.  Why would I start feeling this bad again a week after the increase?  

[Altostrata]

Waves can come out of nowhere, Hazel. You need to not panic when you have one, observe how long it lasts. Have you taken up meditative deep breathing? That can help.

[Hazel]

33 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Waves can come out of nowhere, Hazel. You need to not panic when you have one, observe how long it lasts. Have you taken up meditative deep breathing? That can help.

I will try.  This just feels like a reaction to something. But I can’t think of what.  I’m sure you are right and it is just a wave.

[Rabe]

Hi Hazel,

Its difficult when that anxiety rears its ugliest head isn't it?  Im sorry!  

I am also one that is always trying to find a reason for what Im feeling, I think cause then it seems logical that there would be an answer...someway to make it better.  But the reality of this ILlogical journey seems to be pretty constant.  One day better, another worse, couple better, few worse...and so it goes.  Working hard on acceptance and less my need to control it...but is not an easy task at all!

Wanted you to know I am thinking about you!💜 

[Altostrata]

Is it a reaction to something you ate? Or bright lights?

[Hazel]

32 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Is it a reaction to something you ate? Or bright lights?

I started taking 1000mg Seriphos last Wednesday at night and have also been taking 1000mg vitamin C when I wake up during the night.

I ate Asian food last night, maybe there was MSG in it?

Who knows?  I just know the anxiety has been really high all afternoon.  Hoping it passes soon😕

[Survivor1]

Hi Hazel,

 

Nice to meet you.  Wished it was under different circumstances.  

 

I have read a bit of your thread and saw that you are having a difficult time with anxiety.  I just wanted to let you know that it will eventually end.  When I ct'd seroquel over a year ago, I had to reinstate and it took three months to stabilize.  During those three months I had over-the-top, unrelenting anxiety, with few, if any, windows.  But eventually it came to an end.  

 

It doesn't seem like it right now, but it will pass.  For me any type of distraction was the best.  I paced a lot (still do, for other reasons), talked to myself a lot - luckily none of my neighbors are at home during the day when I'm outside 😉.

 

If you are sleeping well, that is half the battle.  When things get bad, and if I have slept ok, I always say to myself "at least you slept well".  It's finding some glimmer of positivity when everything else seems dark.

 

I really hope you see some relief, as I know what it is like to feel terrible and have kids and a job, and life!  All at the best.

[Hazel]

15 minutes ago, Survivor1 said:

Hi Hazel,

 

Nice to meet you.  Wished it was under different circumstances.  

 

I have read a bit of your thread and saw that you are having a difficult time with anxiety.  I just wanted to let you know that it will eventually end.  When I ct'd seroquel over a year ago, I had to reinstate and it took three months to stabilize.  During those three months I had over-the-top, unrelenting anxiety, with few, if any, windows.  But eventually it came to an end.  

 

It doesn't seem like it right now, but it will pass.  For me any type of distraction was the best.  I paced a lot (still do, for other reasons), talked to myself a lot - luckily none of my neighbors are at home during the day when I'm outside 😉.

 

If you are sleeping well, that is half the battle.  When things get bad, and if I have slept ok, I always say to myself "at least you slept well".  It's finding some glimmer of positivity when everything else seems dark.

 

I really hope you see some relief, as I know what it is like to feel terrible and have kids and a job, and life!  All at the best.

Thanks so much Survivor1.  It is nice to meet you despite these circumstances.  It’s good to hear that things got better for you after reinstatement-it gives me hope, and I could use some of that right now.  How are things for you now?

[Rabe]

Did you start the seriphos and vit C at bout same time?  I don't do well with any supplements, colored pills, lots of foods right now.

If you think is the supplements perhaps you could stop one and see if feel better.  If not you can always restart.  I know that MSG would do it for me.

You can call the restaurant where you got the food and ask if there is MSG in it and they will let you know.  In any case hope you feel better soon Hazel!

You sound better tonight...💜

[Hazel]

50 minutes ago, Rabe said:

Did you start the seriphos and vit C at bout same time?  I don't do well with any supplements, colored pills, lots of foods right now.

If you think is the supplements perhaps you could stop one and see if feel better.  If not you can always restart.  I know that MSG would do it for me.

You can call the restaurant where you got the food and ask if there is MSG in it and they will let you know.  In any case hope you feel better soon Hazel!

You sound better tonight...💜

Hi Rabe,

yes, I started them at about the same time.  I’m not going to take any supplements for now except the 3 mg melatonin since I have been taking melatonin for a long time now and don’t want to just stop.  

I’m feeling better since about 8:30 tonight. I am hoping tomorrow will be a better day. Thank you for your support!

[Hazel]

This morning has been really difficult again.  I’m at a point where I just don’t know what to do going forward.  I can’t function like this and am looking at having to take a leave from work.  I am also considering calling my doctor to make an appointment to see what he thinks.  I know it will probably be more meds, but I can’t keep going like this.  I get a day or two where I feel like I am getting better and then go back to feeling awful again.  I really do need to be able to work and have 3 kids to take care of and this just isn’t working.  

I don’t know if it is normal to feel like this after an updose and I just need to give it more time or does this mean it’s not working and I should reduce the dosage?  Feeling desperate and hopeless at this point.  This wave has been going on since the end of April and there doesn’t seem to be an end in sight.

[Survivor1]

59 minutes ago, Hazel said:

 I know it will probably be more meds

 

If you are willing to try additional meds, please be sure that they do not interact with what you are currently taking.

 

I added a small dose of mirtazepine (2.4 mg when the lowest dose is usually 7.5) to improve my sleep which was shot from a ct of seroquel, to trazodone that I was already taking.  That caused serotonin syndrome and gave me worse insomnia; I then had to ct off the  mirtazepine, which has landed me in my current situation of even more brutal insomnia due to severe autonomic dysregulation.  I found that SS can be caused by even small doses of a second serotonergic drug.  

 

So please be careful in adding another drug (do an interaction check before).  Having said that, I know that sometimes you have to do what you have to do make life livable, and if adding another drug does it, I have no judgement. Best.

[Hazel]

Thanks @Survivor1

I really don’t want to add more meds as I feel that will only make things worse.  I haven’t called the doctor’s office and don’t know if I will.  

I am almost wondering if I should lower my dose a bit to see if that helps or just continue to hold and hope this wave passes soon.  It’s just really hard to feel so awful and try to go about my day like “normal”.  You said you have been able to work through this?  I am trying my best, but it’s getting harder to keep going.

[mirage]

@Hazel Hi Hazel. Just read your threads to catch up. I have never had anxiety in my life, until my journey began in June of 2017. For me, I always wake up with it and there are days it gets better and days it stays bad. I have not been able to put anything specific to it and, for me, it isn't even what I'm thinking that brings it on. It comes out of nowhere. I think my cns is just so over stimulated and confused. Try not to panic with it and ride it through. It is really hard but I think it is the only way to get through this. Praying for you.

[Hazel]

Thanks @mirage

I am trying to just let it be and go with the flow.  Feeling a little better now compared to earlier this morning.  Sorry to hear you have had to deal with awful anxiety as well.  I hope you are feeling well today.  

[mirage]

@Hazel Thanks Hazel. All of these symptoms are odd and they come and go, or you take 1 step forward and then, 5 steps back. The bottom line, we have to still live each day to its fullest and know that one day, this will all be behind us and we will be living life in its fullest form. Here's to healing! 

[Hazel]

11 minutes ago, mirage said:

@Hazel Thanks Hazel. All of these symptoms are odd and they come and go, or you take 1 step forward and then, 5 steps back. The bottom line, we have to still live each day to its fullest and know that one day, this will all be behind us and we will be living life in its fullest form. Here's to healing! 

I can’t wait for that day to come-it can’t get here soon enough!

[Altostrata]

Hazel, I looked back through your topic and I can't find why you dropped Prozac and went back to Paxil in mid-April.

 

What was your reaction to Prozac?

 

I also see you have a tendency to make many, many drug changes, particularly reducing prematurely. You will need to stop doing that, don't experiment, do everything in a very methodical way.

[Hazel]

50 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Hazel, I looked back through your topic and I can't find why you dropped Prozac and went back to Paxil in mid-April.

 

What was your reaction to Prozac?

 

I also see you have a tendency to make many, many drug changes, particularly reducing prematurely. You will need to stop doing that, don't experiment, do everything in a very methodical way.

I got increased anxiety from the Prozac and gave up on it after 9 days I think.  I know I have made many mistakes along the way and am paying for it now.

Do you think I should continue to hold at 9mg @Altostrata?

[Rosetta]

So sorry you are struggling.  I felt absolutely desperate last week, but it passed.  Yours will pass, too.  Try to wait for that possibility before you change anything.  I hope it happens quickly.

[Songbird]

Hazel, please can you add your increase to 9mg on June 18 into your signature.  Could you post some daily journals with your ratings out of 10 like you did before?  It might be helpful to compare to the earlier ones and see what's happening with the 9mg.

[Hazel]

30 minutes ago, Songbird said:

Hazel, please can you add your increase to 9mg on June 18 into your signature.  Could you post some daily journals with your ratings out of 10 like you did before?  It might be helpful to compare to the earlier ones and see what's happening with the 9mg.

Sunday June 24

4:30 up with anxiety, took 1000mg vit C

8:30 out of bed 6.5 mg paroxetine 

8:45 breakfast, anxiety 2

9:45 walk, anxiety 1-2

11:45 snack, anxiety 1

12:30 increased anxiety 3

1-2:00 outside feeling good, anxiety min.

2:00 increased anxiety 4

anxiety improved as day went on

2.5 mg paroxetine 9:45pm-went to bed feeling good.

Monday June 25

woke several times during the night but able to get back to sleep.  Up for good with high anxiety around 4:30.  Took vitamin C and Seriphos when I woke early the first time around 2:00 and more vitamin C at 6:00.  Took 250mg magnesium at 7:45

8:00 6.5 mg paroxetine 

more anxiety this morning

8:15 breakfast

9:30 anxiety 5-6

11:30 anxiety still 5-6

12:15 short walk

12:30 lunch anxiety 3

1:00 anxiety high 8-9

2:30 anxiety 5

anxiety stayed around a 5 until 8-8:30at night when I finally started feeling better

9:45 2.5 mg paroxetine 

Tuesday June 26

Didn’t sleep well last night.  Up around 2:00 and didn’t sleep much after that. 

6:30 went for a 20 min walk, anxiety high-8

7:00 bath with epsom salts anxiety 7

8:15 anxiety down to a 3

8:30 7.5 mg paroxetine 

8:45 breakfast 

9:00 work anxiety 4-5

10:00 anxiety 3-4

11:30 anxiety 3

12:00 short walk anxiety 1-2

12:20 lunch

2:00 anxiety up again to 5 or 6

3:30 20 min walk anxiety 3-4

5:00 dinner anxiety 2-3

 6:00 anxiety 1-2

7:00 anxiety up and down between 2-5

8:00 finally feeling better anxiety 1

9:45 2.5 mg paroxetine 

10:00 bed

Wednesday

Didn’t sleep well again last night.  Up since about 2:00 with high anxiety.

6:45 anxiety 8-9

[Songbird]

Thanks.  One question - did you take 7.5mg paroxetine on Tuesday 8:30 or 6.5mg?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Songbird
clarify

[Hazel]

38 minutes ago, Songbird said:

Thanks.  One question - did you take 7.5mg paroxetine on Tuesday 8:30 or 6.5mg?

Sorry, it was 6.5 mg

[Hazel]

10 hours ago, Rosetta said:

So sorry you are struggling.  I felt absolutely desperate last week, but it passed.  Yours will pass, too.  Try to wait for that possibility before you change anything.  I hope it happens quickly.

Glad to hear it passed for you Rosetta.  I am hoping and praying this passes for me soon as well.  Thanks for the support.

[Hazel]

I am still not doing well in regards to the high anxiety. @Altostrata wondering if I should still be holding at 9mg?  Been feeling bad since Monday and it’s not improving so far.  Don’t know what to do going forward and starting to feel hopeless again.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Altostrata]

Your recent drug history:

 

2015 Withdrawal syndrome from reducing Zoloft to 25mg; probably prior withdrawal syndrome from going on and off drugs repeatedly

2016 Another attempted taper from 150mg Zoloft, resulting withdrawal syndrome

2016 October Switch to Lexapro, unsuccessful

2016 December Switch to Paxil, no relief at 20mg

2017 January-March, taper Paxil to 7.5mg, increased symptoms

2017 March Updose to 10mg, tapering again after 2 weeks

2017 April 8  4.5 Paxil and 4.5mg Prozac

2017 April 10 9mg Prozac, dropped Paxil

2017 April 10 Went back on 10mg Paxil -- same day

2017 July 6 Has been tapering Paxil

 

On 4/8/2017 at 10:46 PM, Hazel said:

In the fall of 2015 I had a return of anxiety after reducing the Zoloft to 25mg and tried to go back to 50, but it wasn't helping, so ended up going to 150mg before I felt relief. I again tried tapering last summer and got down to 25mg and experienced increased anxiety as well as insomnia. My doctor switched me to Lexapro last October, but it only made me more anxious, so after 10 weeks he switched me to Paxil. I got up to 20mg of Paxil for 3 weeks and wasn't feeling any better, so finally decided I had enough and wanted off the antidepressants.

 

I started tapering at the end of January down to 15mg for 2 weeks, then 10 for 2 weeks, then to 7.5, and after about a week and a half at 7.5 started feeling really anxious again. I found this site and decided to go back up to 10mg of Paxil and stabilized for about 2 weeks and then started tapering 10%.

 

Was doing pretty well for a couple of weeks at 9mg and then started feeling a little anxiety creep in. I talked to my doctor about switching to Prozac to make the tapering hopefully easier, so a week ago this Friday I started taking 4.5 mg each of Paxil and Prozac. I have experienced some ups and downs with anxiety since then, and am having a particularly difficult time right now. Feeling quite anxious and can't sleep.

 

On 4/10/2017 at 5:04 AM, Hazel said:

I decided yesterday to stop the Paxil and took 9mg of Prozac. Still felt anxious early on in the day, but actually started feeling better as the day went on and slept good last night. I woke up with anxiety this morning, but that is typical. I am starting to feel better as the morning goes on. I am thinking I will stay on the Prozac for at least a week and see how I feel. I am hoping the worst from making the switch is over, but if things get bad, I will likely go back to Paxil.

 

 

On 4/10/2017 at 9:09 PM, Hazel said:

Having another bad night. I was feeling good during the day, but increased anxiety as night went on, and now can't sleep. Thinking I will go back to the 10mg of Paxil and hold for a while, but not sure if I should give Prozac more time?

 

On 7/6/2017 at 5:16 AM, Hazel said:

t has been a while since I've written anything here.  I was doing pretty well tapering off paroxetine up until a few days ago.  I've been doing the Brass Monkey slide method and got down to about 7.9 mg.  I make up my own liquid.  I've had some ups and downs over the past couple of months, but mostly feeling pretty good and able to live my life normally.  

 

I started feeling funny a few days ago-more anxious and just a general sense of unease.  It's increased over the last couple of days where I had trouble falling asleep the last few nights and last night I was able to fall asleep, but woke up around 3:30 with high anxiety and couldn't fall back asleep.

 

 

Hazel, you have never given your nervous system a chance to stabilize on anything. You can't say Prozac caused increased anxiety, you'd made several drug changes in the weeks prior. The Prozac switch might have worked if you had given it a few days.

 

It appears you've made all these decisions yourself, and your doctor went along. You know we advise stabilizing for some months before attempting a taper, but you've only given it weeks, sometimes days, before making a drug change.

 

I really don't know what to suggest. My guess is you've been experiencing destabilization from drug changes prior to 2015 and all the subsequent drug switches and increases and decreases have continued the destabilization. We can only praise your nervous system, which somehow has managed to occasionally settle down throughout all this drug chaos.

 

Please stop playing with the Paxil dosage. Take your doses at the same time each day. Prepare to stay at this level for 6 months or more.

 

If I were you, I might ask my doctor for a prescription for 5mg lamotrigine tablets and start at half a tablet, 2.5mg, to take with the paroxetine. If this is too high, you might have to get a compounded liquid. Prepare to stay on this for 1-2 years before you taper off.

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

Lamictal (lamotrigine) to calm post-discontinuation withdrawal symptoms

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Carmie]

Hi Hazel, 

 

Just wondering how you’re doing 💚