Downbutnotout: Started a bridge to get off effexor

[Altostrata]

You can stop repeating that you've been damaged by drugs. We all get it.

 

If I were you, I'd add another 2 beads of Effexor to the 3 bead you're taking in the morning. Let us know how you're doing.

 

Have a happy holiday.

[Downbutnotout]

thank you so much for answering me! Especially on Xmas. I thought you were done with me, and trust me, I wouldn’t blame you one bit. I did go read a lot of the links on the website. I hope addding the 2 beads will help.

[Downbutnotout]

On 12/23/2017 at 3:35 AM, Kristine said:

Hi DBNO, I can really relate to Realme's advice, that's what I do.  Currently my husband is at our neighbours for Christmas drinks.  I couldn't go because it's a larger crowd and I'm not feeling great.  I always decided at the last minute. Otherwise I stress out to much. K

Kristine, 

Merry Xmas.

 

Let me make sure i have this right. My objective is to relieve the withdrawal symptoms which sounds like what I am having. All the anxiety, raging, craziness is most likely from withdrawal symptoms. If I took any more antidepressants foreign to my system, most likely it would rev up my cns more and cause more of the same symptoms. I am really convincing myself the antidepressants are not going to help me, so I should stop looking for solutions with these drugs. It’s not going to do anything but cause more damage. I’m pretty convinced of that. 

 

As a matter of fact,  I think I went flat after the doctor convinced me to take lithium back in June. After that I took lamactil which I thought raised my mood but really trashed my vision. More flat after discontinuation. I was told to use Prozac to get off Effexor. This took place over two weeks. Then Buspar, and folate made me hyper crazy. Buspar set off terrible symptoms. After that I retried prozac,  but it made me insane. It actually caused me to run up and down the stairs and go crazy.

 

Although Effexor pooped out, it was what I took most of my life. It was what I was stable on before the ‘incident’ in June. It has taken care of the anxiety,  but not the depression.

 

I was instructed to take 5 beads of effexor starting tomorrow. This should help alleviate more of the withdrawal symptoms. 

 

I will know I’m stable when I stop raging and acting like a fool. 

 

I’m approaching you because you’ve been through this. I know you’ve answered some of these questions. I am looking for reassurance that this approach seems logical.

 

When did you feel a window? How long did it take? You were on a lot more stuff than me too. My biggest frustration is not feeling any bit of emotion. Except hurt that I am in this situation. And that usually happens before the effexor wears out. 

On 12/23/2017 at 3:16 AM, JustCallMeJane said:

 

I was diagnosed with major depression disorder in my teens, however, my first suicide attempt was when I was 7. I couldn't tell you how many drugs I've been on and off since then (I'm 49 now). 

 

I guess I was lucky. I have had 2 family doctors in my life, and neither liked prescribing Ativan. A blessing in retrospect, a curse (and oh boy did I curse) at the time. I'd only be prescribed a week to 10 days worth at a time (15 days was my max allowed). One tab a day, usually 0.5mg, I can only remember a handful of times when I was prescribed 1mg tabs. Through my teens and early 20s, my family doc let me have a prescription once a year. He even fought me a few years saying I didn't need them. I'd curse him, storm out of the appointment and leave my mom to deal with him. My current family doctor (previous one retired) is of the same mindset as my old one... "Ativan is a very strong, addictive drug only to be used in dire emergencies". So I didn't get a chance to get addicted.

 

I've been off drugs for 40 days now. Cold turkey. Wouldn't recommend it. My depression comes and goes. It's easier to deal with than the withdrawals. That being said, when the depression flares up, I'm an emotional wreck, cry at the drop of a hat,  and I wonder if I can get through it. So far, the answer is yes. It doesn't feel like it in the moment. But one step at a time, one hour at a time, I get through it.

I never thanked you for answering me. Merry xmas. 

 

 

 

[Marmot]

On 23/12/2017 at 11:34 AM, Downbutnotout said:

Plus now with all these horrible withdrawal things I’ve done I have more guilt.

 

Strange things happen in withdrawal. It's normal - not something to beat yourself up over. We're healing and learning as we go. 

[Downbutnotout]

52 minutes ago, Marmot said:

 

Strange things happen in withdrawal. It's normal - not something to beat yourself up over. We're healing and learning as we go. 

  Merry Xmas. 

Thank you for your concern. I’m really learning.  I’m increasing my effexor beads by 2 tomorrow. I’ll be happy the day I experience a window and feel some good emotion. I am trying to convince myself I’m doing the right thing. The only concern I have is the effexor pooped out and wasn’t helping my depression.

Another concern I have is that the trazadone may be adversely effecting me. I don’t know how to tell. When it wears out, I get some nasty anxiety going. 

 

Some good things I did: I refused abilify, seroquel, and klonopin. Stopped ativan after a couple of weeks. Stopped lithium after 10 days, stopped lamactil after 10 days. The next thing I’m doing is canceling the psychiatrist appointment on Friday. After more than 25 years of being engaged in antidepressants this isn’t easy. My children don’t understand it, and are disappointed that I’m not doing something about my depression. My husband supports it.

 

The funny part: I worked at a drug and alcohol facility for a short time. That’s one of the reasons I was afraid of the benzos.  The joke was, “I stopped drinking, but the clients didn’t.”  I know how bad those benzos are. Nasty. But I sure got fond of them really fast. So I’ve actually been withdrawing from them too. I took at least 15 to 20 of them. Over about 4 or 5 months. 

[Kristine]

Merry Christmas 🌲 DBNO,  It sounds like you have turned a corner ☺️ Well done. I know it's not easy. I think Alto had some very wise words 🙂 Increasing the beads is a good idea. It's the middle of Christmas Day here and I've escaped to my bedroom for a lie down! I'll write more later on. K 

 

[Downbutnotout]

I am so sorry for interrupting your xmas. I was intending to send that later. 

[Kristine]

Hi DBNO, Hope you managed to get some sleep. I will try and respond to your questions, but I'm no expert and I can only share some advice based on my own experiences. 

20 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

Let me make sure i have this right. My objective is to relieve the withdrawal symptoms which sounds like what I am having. All the anxiety, raging, craziness is most likely from withdrawal symptoms.

You are on the right track.  You need to stabilise. I have written in your thread about the Effexor withdrawal I experienced 10 years ago. Marmot also shared her experience.

20 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I was instructed to take 5 beads of effexor starting tomorrow. This should help alleviate more of the withdrawal symptoms. 

I think Alto's suggestion should help but you need to consider the other suggestions offered by Alto and moderators.  For example....Finding a therapist, someone you feel comfortable with and perhaps someone who can teach you meditation (particularly mindfulness). In my humble opinion if you place all your focus on the 5 beads alleviating the your symptoms, you are once again placing all your eggs in one basket. 

 

20 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

 

I’m approaching you because you’ve been through this. I know you’ve answered some of these questions. I am looking for reassurance that this approach seems logical.

 

Yes this seems logical but from my experience other coping tools need to be put into action.  The moderators have put serveral links on your thread relating to this.  The following are some examples which I have utilised in my life:

 

1. Mindfulness meditation:  Start with the basic breathing techniques. Meditation takes time and effort. For full benefit it must be done on a daily basis.
2. When I'm experiencing acute panic/anxiety and meditation is not possible I use the 4-7-8 breathing technique. I have previously put a link on your thread.
3. Aromatherapy: I invested in an 'altrasonic aromatherapy diffuser' (they come in some beautiful designs and probably many on sale at the moment!) This has helped me immensely. I use various essential oils.  If I have a headache/migraine I use peppermint oil. Sleep and relaxation I use lavender oil. I find rosemary oil beneficial when I meditate because it helps me focus but is calming at the same time.  
4. Progressive muscle relaxation: this is a guided meditation I do just before sleep. Laying down in bed. It involves tensing muscle groups and then quickly relaxing those muscles. I have found this very helpful over the years.
5. Nutrition packed smoothie: I often don't have much of an appetite especially in the morning. So I make a smoothie with milk, banana/berries, yoghurt and protein powder. I always have frozen berries in the freezer. I find this is easy to digest. These drugs and w/d have played havoc with my digestive system.
6. Gentle stretching and a short daily walk. At the moment my balance isn't great and I'm afraid of falling, so I'll just slowly walk around the garden - using mindfulness walking meditation. You mentioned swimming helped you.

Ruminating thoughts...I often can not escape this. So this is what I do. I acknowledge the thoughts as 'just thoughts' and refuse to give them any more attention than that. Then I'll either listen to a pod cast or play an app game on my phone (lol) farm heros works best for me. Sometimes I'll do both at the same time. I do whatever works at the time.   

There are many more, but you need so start slow. One step at a time! 

20 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

When did you feel a window? How long did it take? You were on a lot more stuff than me too. My biggest frustration is not feeling any bit of emotion.

This is a really difficult question to answer.  Much of the time I live hour by hour and I may get minutes of 'window relief'. Some times hours. Sometimes none.  I have experienced a few days. I find if I neglect to invest my energy in some of the of the practical coping techniques (listed above) I am much worse. This process is not linear. It is important to appreatiate the windows when they appear but not to grasp desperately onto them in the hope that they will not disappear. The reality is, another wave will hit but another window will open.  For me acceptance is key. I am accepting this process and not wasting my energy fighting it. Don't get me wrong, I get upset, l cry, get irritable (many more)...i will acknowledge these natural responses and then do what I can to work through the pain.

 

dbno, these are only some suggestions from my own experience. I have a long way to go and it does scare me at time. You need to find what works for you. Trial and error. Just no more excessive chopping and changing of medication!

 

You can do this! K

 

[Downbutnotout]

5 minutes ago, Kristine said:

Hi DBNO, Hope you managed to get some sleep. I will try and respond to your questions, but I'm no expert and I can only share some advice based on my own experiences. 

You are on the right track.  You need to stabilise. I have written in your thread about the Effexor withdrawal I experienced 10 years ago. Marmot also shared her experience.

I think Alto's suggestion should help but you need to consider the other suggestions offered by Alto and moderators.  For example....Finding a therapist, someone you feel comfortable with and perhaps someone who can teach you meditation (particularly mindfulness). In my humble opinion if you place all your focus on the 5 beads alleviating the your symptoms, you are once again placing all your eggs in one basket. 

 

 

Yes this seems logical but from my experience other coping tools need to be put into action.  The moderators have put serveral links on your thread relating to this.  The following are some examples which I have utilised in my life:

 

1. Mindfulness meditation:  Start with the basic breathing techniques. Meditation takes time and effort. For full benefit it must be done on a daily basis.
2. When I'm experiencing acute panic/anxiety and meditation is not possible I use the 4-7-8 breathing technique. I have previously put a link on your thread.
3. Aromatherapy: I invested in an 'altrasonic aromatherapy diffuser' (they come in some beautiful designs and probably many on sale at the moment!) This has helped me immensely. I use various essential oils.  If I have a headache/migraine I use peppermint oil. Sleep and relaxation I use lavander oil. I find rosemary oil beneficial when I meditate because it helps me focus but is calming at the same time.  
4. Progressive muscle relaxation: this is a guided meditation I do just before sleep. Laying down in bed. It involves tensing muscle groups and then quickly relaxing those muscles. I have found this very helpful over the years.
5. Nutrition packed smoothie: I often don't have much of an appetite especially in the morning. So I make a smoothie with milk, banana/berries, yoghurt and protein powder. I always have frozen berries in the freezer. I find this is easy to digest. These drugs and w/d have played havoc with my digestive system.
6. Gentle stretching and a short daily walk. At the moment my balance isn't great and I'm afraid of falling, so I'll just slowly walk around the garden - using mindfulness walking meditation. You mentioned swimming helped you.

Ruminating thoughts...I often can not escape this. So this is what I do. I acknowledge the thoughts as 'just thoughts' and refuse to give them any more attention than that. Then I'll either listen to a pod cast or play an app game on my phone (lol) farm heros works best for me. Sometimes I'll do both at the same time. I do whatever works at the time.   

There are many more, but you need so start slow. One step at a time! 

This is a really difficult question to answer.  Much of the time I live hour by hour and I may get minutes of 'window relief'. Some times hours. Sometimes none.  I have experienced a few days. I find if I neglect to invest my energy in some of the of the practical coping techniques (listed above) I am much worse. This process is not linear. It is important to appreatiate the windows when they appear but not to grasp desperately onto them in the hope that they will not disappear. The reality is, another wave will hit but another window will open.  For me acceptance is key. I am accepting this process and not wasting my energy fighting it. Don't get me wrong, I get upset, l cry, get irritable (many more)...i will acknowledge these natural responses and then do what I can to work through the pain.

 

dbno, these are only some suggestions from my own experience. I have a long way to go and it does scare me at time. You need to find what works for you. Trial and error. Just no more excessive chopping and changing of medication!

 

You can do this! K

 

I did not not take the 5 beads today because it was xmas.  I was going to wait until tomorrow. I have to go to my daughter’s mil’s tonight. I do not want to go since she has gotten close to my grandson and this will be evident tonight. He’s probably staying there tonight. It’s very hard for me to take. She makes me very nervous. I have had a jealousy problem with her for several years. She’s won the competition.  Although right now I don’t  have many feelings for him or anyone. 

 

 I was feeling better last night, but unfortunately, a new problem developed. I haven’t slept for 2 days. . I developed anxiety this afternoon, and managed to relax, but still no sleep. Up to this point, I was able to sleep with the Trazadone. 

 

I do have the meditation “calm” on my phone. I will use it. The diffuser sounds strange to me, but I’ll try it. Maybe eating a ton of cookies was a bad idea. 

 

I do think I experienced a window last night and today. I was hopeful till I got the insomnia. I hope I can sleep tonight. 

 

I watched a documentary about George Harrison. I haven’t been able to watch TV, but now I’m at square one again. I told my sister I was doing much better. I told my daughter I felt better. Now, I feel like a liar again. I guess my window closed up pretty fast. 

 

Two of my children called on the phone and I was so nervous I could barely talk to them. My son is coming here in a week. I don’t know how I’ll be able to tolerate him. I don’t want to see me like this. 

[Kristine]

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

. I have to go to my daughter’s mil’s tonight

Is this a typo? Do you mean daughter in law?

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

do not want to go since she has gotten close to my grandson and this will be evident tonight. He’s probably staying there tonight. It’s very hard for me to take. She makes me very nervous. I have had a jealousy problem with her for several years. She’s won the competition.

Life is difficult and some feelings can become so ingrained in our psyche, they are difficult to budge.  That's way I think a therapist may be beneficial to help you work through these issues. 

 

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

I haven’t slept for 2 days.

This is why I made the suggesting 'progressive muscle relaxation'...see my last post.  There are many guided meditations on line. 

It's good to do with lavender oil in the infuser. I am unable to do this meditation at the moment because of severe muscle ache/pain.

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

My son is coming here in a week. I don’t know how I’ll be able to tolerate him. I don’t want to see me like this. 

Let me ask you a question....if you had a debilitating chronic illness such as cancer would you still try to hide this from your family? You have nothing to feel ashamed about.I wrote the following not long ago to Marmot........

 

"Yes, I'm surfing those waves but I'm falling off the surfboard frequently!  I'm getting used to missing out on social gatherings. Previously I would put on a brave face, pretend to be ok and then suffer the consequence. It was just too exhausting.  I have learnt the value on saying "no".  Self preservation is critical. Also I don't keep my situation a secret anymore.  Most people in my life know and I refuse to apologise anymore for my aliments.. Some people have run for the hills, but I'm glad they did. I don't want them in my life anyway.  Yes, I have had some windows this holiday season 🙂"

 

You are stronger than you think DBNO 🙂 It is difficult but it will be ok. Cheers K 

[Downbutnotout]

On 12/24/2017 at 1:43 PM, Altostrata said:

You can stop repeating that you've been damaged by drugs. We all get it.

 

If I were you, I'd add another 2 beads of Effexor to the 3 bead you're taking in the morning. Let us know how you're doing.

 

Have a happy holiday.

Okay, this is what happened. I think I had a wave. I felt good for a few hours. I was able to watch TV, write in my blog, and think everything is going to be okay. But at the same time, I was up with insomnia for 2 and a half days.  It was nice while it lasted. But the insomnia was pretty debilitating.  

 

The wave lasted about 6 or 7 hours. 

 

 I took the 5 beads today. I added two. Right now my mood is super low. 

 

Patience, and the hopes this is going to get better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

21 hours ago, Kristine said:

Is this a typo? Do you mean daughter in law?

Life is difficult and some feelings can become so ingrained in our psyche, they are difficult to budge.  That's way I think a therapist may be beneficial to help you work through these issues. 

 

This is why I made the suggesting 'progressive muscle relaxation'...see my last post.  There are many guided meditations on line. 

It's good to do with lavender oil in the infuser. I am unable to do this meditation at the moment because of severe muscle ache/pain.

Let me ask you a question....if you had a debilitating chronic illness such as cancer would you still try to hide this from your family? You have nothing to feel ashamed about.I wrote the following not long ago to Marmot........

 

"Yes, I'm surfing those waves but I'm falling off the surfboard frequently!  I'm getting used to missing out on social gatherings. Previously I would put on a brave face, pretend to be ok and then suffer the consequence. It was just too exhausting.  I have learnt the value on saying "no".  Self preservation is critical. Also I don't keep my situation a secret anymore.  Most people in my life know and I refuse to apologise anymore for my aliments.. Some people have run for the hills, but I'm glad they did. I don't want them in my life anyway.  Yes, I have had some windows this holiday season 🙂"

 

You are stronger than you think DBNO 🙂 It is difficult but it will be ok. Cheers K 

I did get some sleep, but woke up and the wave went away. I did have a terrible time at my daughter’s family’s gathering. I got so upset because they are so happy. My grandson is shying away from me. I let them know I was upset. I left the room. He knows grandma is messed up. Is one of your symptoms crushing depression? If I knew I could solve this with drugs I would but I know it’s made me worse. I delayed my psychiatrist appointment. I can’t quite give up this irrational hope. I did use my calm meditation app. If I did have a wave, what are the chances of having another one? I started the 5 beads today. 

[Kristine]

Hi DBNO,  Yes, I have debilitating depression. I think you may have waves and windows confused. The windows are the good bits.   Or at least the less painful bits.  I find this video explains it well. Also reassuring. K

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

Oh yes, I did have it confused. Sorry for cleaning on you. This is a very intolerable wave I’m in today. I almost canceled my psychiatric appointment. But I didn’t.... not yet. 

[Altostrata]

We do want to know your symptom pattern, but brooding about your symptoms minute to minute is not the goal. You must stop worrying about every little twitch. Symptoms will come and go in waves. They will also change, and get better and worse. This will be very frustrating. You must remain calm throughout and carry on as best you can.

 

Please let us know how you're doing on 5 beads of Effexor.

[Downbutnotout]

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

Okay, this is what happened. I think I had a wave. I felt good for a few hours. I was able to watch TV, write in my blog, and think everything is going to be okay. But at the same time, I was up with insomnia for 2 and a half days.  It was nice while it lasted. But the insomnia was pretty debilitating.  

 

The wave lasted about 6 or 7 hours. 

 

 I took the 5 beads today. I added two. Right now my mood is super low. 

 

Patience, and the hopes this is going to get better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

We do want to know your symptom pattern, but brooding about your symptoms minute to minute is not the goal. You must stop worrying about every little twitch. Symptoms will come and go in waves. They will also change, and get better and worse. This will be very frustrating. You must remain calm throughout and carry on as best you can.

 

Please let us know how you're doing on 5 beads of Effexor.

 

[Downbutnotout]

Okay. You can only do what you can do. I know it was a window now.  I’ll let you know. Thanks for answering. 

[Downbutnotout]

I felt aggressive last night on 5 beads of effexor. . I think it’s too high. I went back to 3 today. I was afraid to do the 5. Is this okay? I started feeling the urge to hit and bite . I actually bit a sheet. I can still take the other 2 but it’s making me nervous. I wasn’t feeling that on 3. Is this a worse symptom that would go away? I wanted to take the 5 but I just am worried about what I will do. Maybe I should’ve just gone up one bead? 

[powerback]

Hi DBNO ,im trying to taper venlafaxine and I also have terrible symptoms like agression ,its terrible what we have to go through,I wouldn't waste any time worrying about biting sheets ,I often roll a towel and trash it off the floor ,but when im in bad moods I avoid people.no one could ever understand what we have to go through .

Take great care.

PB

[Downbutnotout]

Yes I’m a nervous wreck. It’s terrible. Sorry you’re going through trouble too. . I never acted this way before in my life. I’ve been off the dosage of Effexor for 6 weeks. I’m totally dysfunctional right now. I was hoping the beads of effexor  would help. They have a little. 

[Downbutnotout]

Alton

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

I felt aggressive last night on 5 beads of effexor. . I think it’s too high. I went back to 3 today. I was afraid to do the 5. Is this okay? I started feeling the urge to hit and bite . I actually bit a sheet. I can still take the other 2 but it’s making me nervous. I wasn’t feeling that on 3. Is this a worse symptom that would go away? I wanted to take the 5 but I just am worried about what I will do. Maybe I should’ve just gone up one bead? 

I will do whatever advice I’m given. If you think 5 beads is the answer I will force myself. Just want to do the correct thing. 

[Altostrata]

You will need to stick with whatever change you make for at least 4 days to see what it does, and report the effects honestly.

 

One episode of "aggressive" indicates nothing, it could be a passing mood, to which you seem to be disposed.

 

2 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I will do whatever advice I’m given. If you think 5 beads is the answer I will force myself. Just want to do the correct thing. 

 

^ This is patently untrue.

 

Perhaps you're deliberately boxing yourself in to a "woe is me, nothing is going to work" scenario. In that case, I don't believe we can help you here -- nothing is going to work. If that is pre-ordained, all you're doing is taking advantage of a bunch of well-meaning unpaid volunteers.

[Downbutnotout]

You really think that’s what I’m doing? I’m really not trying to take advantage of anyone. I was just wondering if 5 beads was too much. I get upset when this violent thing happens and I lose control. I apologize for being such a coward.  I’ll go for it tomorrow. 

[Downbutnotout]

On 12/25/2017 at 5:42 PM, Kristine said:

Hi DBNO, Hope you managed to get some sleep. I will try and respond to your questions, but I'm no expert and I can only share some advice based on my own experiences. 

You are on the right track.  You need to stabilise. I have written in your thread about the Effexor withdrawal I experienced 10 years ago. Marmot also shared her experience.

I think Alto's suggestion should help but you need to consider the other suggestions offered by Alto and moderators.  For example....Finding a therapist, someone you feel comfortable with and perhaps someone who can teach you meditation (particularly mindfulness). In my humble opinion if you place all your focus on the 5 beads alleviating the your symptoms, you are once again placing all your eggs in one basket. 

 

 

Yes this seems logical but from my experience other coping tools need to be put into action.  The moderators have put serveral links on your thread relating to this.  The following are some examples which I have utilised in my life:

 

1. Mindfulness meditation:  Start with the basic breathing techniques. Meditation takes time and effort. For full benefit it must be done on a daily basis.
2. When I'm experiencing acute panic/anxiety and meditation is not possible I use the 4-7-8 breathing technique. I have previously put a link on your thread.
3. Aromatherapy: I invested in an 'altrasonic aromatherapy diffuser' (they come in some beautiful designs and probably many on sale at the moment!) This has helped me immensely. I use various essential oils.  If I have a headache/migraine I use peppermint oil. Sleep and relaxation I use lavender oil. I find rosemary oil beneficial when I meditate because it helps me focus but is calming at the same time.  
4. Progressive muscle relaxation: this is a guided meditation I do just before sleep. Laying down in bed. It involves tensing muscle groups and then quickly relaxing those muscles. I have found this very helpful over the years.
5. Nutrition packed smoothie: I often don't have much of an appetite especially in the morning. So I make a smoothie with milk, banana/berries, yoghurt and protein powder. I always have frozen berries in the freezer. I find this is easy to digest. These drugs and w/d have played havoc with my digestive system.
6. Gentle stretching and a short daily walk. At the moment my balance isn't great and I'm afraid of falling, so I'll just slowly walk around the garden - using mindfulness walking meditation. You mentioned swimming helped you.

Ruminating thoughts...I often can not escape this. So this is what I do. I acknowledge the thoughts as 'just thoughts' and refuse to give them any more attention than that. Then I'll either listen to a pod cast or play an app game on my phone (lol) farm heros works best for me. Sometimes I'll do both at the same time. I do whatever works at the time.   

There are many more, but you need so start slow. One step at a time! 

This is a really difficult question to answer.  Much of the time I live hour by hour and I may get minutes of 'window relief'. Some times hours. Sometimes none.  I have experienced a few days. I find if I neglect to invest my energy in some of the of the practical coping techniques (listed above) I am much worse. This process is not linear. It is important to appreatiate the windows when they appear but not to grasp desperately onto them in the hope that they will not disappear. The reality is, another wave will hit but another window will open.  For me acceptance is key. I am accepting this process and not wasting my energy fighting it. Don't get me wrong, I get upset, l cry, get irritable (many more)...i will acknowledge these natural responses and then do what I can to work through the pain.

 

dbno, these are only some suggestions from my own experience. I have a long way to go and it does scare me at time. You need to find what works for you. Trial and error. Just no more excessive chopping and changing of medication!

 

You can do this! K

 

I never thanked you for doing all this, and you’re not even a volunteer.  Thank you so much! 

[Kristine]

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

On 26/12/2017 at 9:42 AM, Kristine said:

 

I never thanked you for doing all this, and you’re not even a volunteer.  Thank you so much! 

Your welcome ☺️ K 

[Downbutnotout]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:43 PM, baroquep said:

 

Downbutnotout, I am really sorry that you are feeling such despair.  It angers me that these doctors don't have a clue what they are doing to people when they take people off of these drugs so quickly.  As bheb said, you really do need to see someone as soon as you are able to in order to walk you through what you are dealing with presently.  

 

Have you given anymore thought to reinstating a small amount of Effexor?  As Altostrata mentioned, even 5 beads might be enough to take the edge off of the panic and despair.  In case you are not already aware, suicidal thoughts are a common symptom of withdrawal and unfortunately something that many people have to deal with.  It certainly doesn't make it any less frightening, but sometimes knowing that it is a withdrawal symptom can help ease your mind.  Please let us know what you decide, whether you would like to reinstate or not and please when you wake up tomorrow, could you please call a counsellor/psychologist so that they can help walk you through these uncomfortable emotions.  

 

I've attached a couple of links where you might be able to find support in the United States.

 

Family Service Association

Ohio Suicide Hotlines

Columbus, Ohio Suicide hotline: (614) 221-5445

North Central Mental Health Services

I am also attaching a few links for you to read when you are in a better frame of mind that might help you to understand the symptoms that people can experience while going through withdrawal.  Because you came off of Effexor so quickly, you are likely feeling these symptoms at a very intense and dangerous level and I would encourage you to seek support in your community as soon as you are able to make arrangements.

Neuro Emotions

Intrusive Thoughts and Increased Panic

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

Please let us know how you are doing.

I never thanked you for this. Thank you. I’m not as bad a I was, but I’m not great.  I have to change my attitude. At least I am realizing that. 

[Downbutnotout]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:04 PM, Downbutnotout said:

Advice: I had an awful reaction to prozac. I had a pretty activating reaction to 5 beads of effexor. I upped the trazadone to 100 mg. Should I continue doing this for a month, then get it down to 50? My eye is twitching. I am so scared. 

This is what happened before, but I was taking prozac at the time. 

[Skeeter]

DownBNO,

Did you know it take the brain a full 6-8 weeks to fully realize a change in dose has taken place of most ssri/SNRI's, including Effexor XR? I am talking a full dose, not the teeny dose you are on right now!  Look this up anywhere you like.  I picked 4 sites at random to verify this, (despite the fact I already knew this, as I have been on this drug, as well as many others).  You may not realize this, but you may have a preconceived notion that 5 beads is going to make you feel a certain way, while you think 3 beads will not. I am sure you have heard of the placebo effect, right?  It has been shown in many studies that if a person is told (or even thinks) that they are going to feel a certain way from a pill, during the first few days or so of taking that pill (whether given a sugar pill (the placebo) or the real pill), both sets of people may have the exact same effect!  Amazing what our brains can do, isn't it?!?! Luckily this effect wears off quickly, so hang in there a week or so, and see how you do.  If, after a week or two, you still think it is too much, then drop back.  However, you are here of your own volition, if you think 3 beads is what you must be on, then make the change and note it in the post and in your signature as well, then stay at that dose for many months, unless you and your doctor make a choice to change something.  Other than that, no changes on a whim!

 

First, I want to point out to you that you are here on you own free will.  If any of us here make a suggestion to you, it is up to you whether or not you do it,  Now when we as you to update your signature to keep up your current drug intake, we do need that done, but if we suggest 5 beads, and you only wish to take 3, NO ONE CAN FORCE YOU TO TAKE 5!.  If, at this point, you feel you are, in fact, being "FORCED" to take 5,  it may mean that we have far too much influence on you, and you may be better off on one of the other sites Altostrata recommended above.  I am not telling you to go somewhere else, but if you feel that what we say is not what you want to do, but you do it anyways, and are feeling forced to do things- that is not right!  No one else can choose what is best for you but you!  Saying you will "force yourself to take 5 beads" if that is what we suggest means you are having no input. That is not what we are here for. You have a good head on your shoulders, make YOUR OWN decision! If you feel that we are making you do things you do not wish to do, that is a sign to me that you may not be in the right place.  That is not us rejecting you, that is YOU standing up for YOURSELF!  Very different concept!  If you feel forced at all, please, take a look at the sites given above, I wish you to be 100% comfortable with your choice.  We are not doctors nor health practitioners, we are just telling you of your options, the choice is yours!  You do, however, need, for your own health, to pick a dose and stick with it, or you will not start to ever feel better, IMHO.

 

Now regarding your Effexor XR, we are talking about micro doses of medications here. Will you react to 150mg vs 100mg of Effexor XR like you do 5 vs 3 beads?  SOOOO UNLIKELY!!! Will your body REALLY feel the difference between 3 and 5 beads within one day? VERY doubtful... Within a few days?  Slightly possible, but most likely not anything major.  However, is it within the realm of possibility you notice something minor or even more?  Sure. Is there ANY chance you are overthinking everything right now because you are scared and miserable, so you interpret any change in feeling as a bad reaction to the drug, because it is what you are expecting to feel?  That is a very distinct possibility! If you hang in there and relax, soon you will know the real effect it is having on you.  I bet you will not notice much, if anything. Try to keep yourself busy, so you do not notice every tremor or itch and think it might be the minor change in dose. This is where Journaling really comes to be helpful!

 

Journaling: Start this today!  Get a notebook, a new one if you have one, (or rip out the used paper so you have clean paper on which to write) and write the date at the top, and times on the left margin, and content right next to the time of how, when, and what you are feeling every day. Write when and what you ate, and what time you took your pills every single day, if you took a nap, etc.  Find out if you skipped a meal on accident  if it makes a difference in how you feel.  See if you feel depressed or anxious at the same time every day.  Most people have a pattern they fall into.  Write if you did not sleep at all, or if you did not get out of bed for a whole day, you might start to notice a pattern from week to week or even day to day. Write about your feelings  on the bottom or the back of that page if you like, you can write nothing, or 3 pages on how you feel, it might feel good, give it a try! Here is more info on journaling, if you would like to read more: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/13250-journaling-journalling-writing-therapy-therapeutic-writing/

 

Have you thought of talking to someone who CANNOT prescribe drugs to talk to?  A therapist (psychologist) might be a very good friend for you right now, to teach you non-drug ways to handle your feelings.  I think you might like having someone to talk to who can give you positive ways to handle your feelings, without handing you a drug!! You do not HAVE to see a psychiatrist if your GP will take over your Trazodone prescribing.  Using 3 or 5 beads a day of Effexor XR means that one pill or a bottle of pills you have will last a VERY, VERY LONG TIME.  A therapist cannot make you take drugs, it is not what they do.  I think it might feel good for you to have someone to talk to who is on YOUR SIDE.  Maybe you will decide that you do not need a psychiatrist on your case anymore, esp. if you feel they are not helping you! What do you think of that?  Just make sure your GP will take over your Trazodone prescription BEFORE you do that! You might need to try phoning a couple of different therapists and chatting before you find one you like enough to go and see, so keep your psychiatrist until you are happy, and have had a couple of sessions before you fire your P-doc! Again, this is YOUR CHOICE!

 

Be well,

Skeeter

 

[Downbutnotout]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:08 PM, Downbutnotout said:

Thank you so much. Your story is very interesting. Yes, it makes me feel a little less alone, but this has been a horrible day. Last night was plain scary and I’m afraid of going through it again today. I am so tired to feeling hysterical and anxious. It’s been 6 months of experiencing this over and over.  Yes, thanks for the idea. 

 

[Downbutnotout]

4 hours ago, Skeeter said:

DownBNO,

Did you know it take the brain a full 6-8 weeks to fully realize a change in dose has taken place of most ssri/SNRI's, including Effexor XR? I am talking a full dose, not the teeny dose you are on right now!  Look this up anywhere you like.  I picked 4 sites at random to verify this, (despite the fact I already knew this, as I have been on this drug, as well as many others).  You may not realize this, but you may have a preconceived notion that 5 beads is going to make you feel a certain way, while you think 3 beads will not. I am sure you have heard of the placebo effect, right?  It has been shown in many studies that if a person is told (or even thinks) that they are going to feel a certain way from a pill, during the first few days or so of taking that pill (whether given a sugar pill (the placebo) or the real pill), both sets of people may have the exact same effect!  Amazing what our brains can do, isn't it?!?! Luckily this effect wears off quickly, so hang in there a week or so, and see how you do.  If, after a week or two, you still think it is too much, then drop back.  However, you are here of your own volition, if you think 3 beads is what you must be on, then make the change and note it in the post and in your signature as well, then stay at that dose for many months, unless you and your doctor make a choice to change something.  Other than that, no changes on a whim!

 

First, I want to point out to you that you are here on you own free will.  If any of us here make a suggestion to you, it is up to you whether or not you do it,  Now when we as you to update your signature to keep up your current drug intake, we do need that done, but if we suggest 5 beads, and you only wish to take 3, NO ONE CAN FORCE YOU TO TAKE 5!.  If, at this point, you feel you are, in fact, being "FORCED" to take 5,  it may mean that we have far too much influence on you, and you may be better off on one of the other sites Altostrata recommended above.  I am not telling you to go somewhere else, but if you feel that what we say is not what you want to do, but you do it anyways, and are feeling forced to do things- that is not right!  No one else can choose what is best for you but you!  Saying you will "force yourself to take 5 beads" if that is what we suggest means you are having no input. That is not what we are here for. You have a good head on your shoulders, make YOUR OWN decision! If you feel that we are making you do things you do not wish to do, that is a sign to me that you may not be in the right place.  That is not us rejecting you, that is YOU standing up for YOURSELF!  Very different concept!  If you feel forced at all, please, take a look at the sites given above, I wish you to be 100% comfortable with your choice.  We are not doctors nor health practitioners, we are just telling you of your options, the choice is yours!  You do, however, need, for your own health, to pick a dose and stick with it, or you will not start to ever feel better, IMHO.

 

Now regarding your Effexor XR, we are talking about micro doses of medications here. Will you react to 150mg vs 100mg of Effexor XR like you do 5 vs 3 beads?  SOOOO UNLIKELY!!! Will your body REALLY feel the difference between 3 and 5 beads within one day? VERY doubtful... Within a few days?  Slightly possible, but most likely not anything major.  However, is it within the realm of possibility you notice something minor or even more?  Sure. Is there ANY chance you are overthinking everything right now because you are scared and miserable, so you interpret any change in feeling as a bad reaction to the drug, because it is what you are expecting to feel?  That is a very distinct possibility! If you hang in there and relax, soon you will know the real effect it is having on you.  I bet you will not notice much, if anything. Try to keep yourself busy, so you do not notice every tremor or itch and think it might be the minor change in dose. This is where Journaling really comes to be helpful!

 

Journaling: Start this today!  Get a notebook, a new one if you have one, (or rip out the used paper so you have clean paper on which to write) and write the date at the top, and times on the left margin, and content right next to the time of how, when, and what you are feeling every day. Write when and what you ate, and what time you took your pills every single day, if you took a nap, etc.  Find out if you skipped a meal on accident  if it makes a difference in how you feel.  See if you feel depressed or anxious at the same time every day.  Most people have a pattern they fall into.  Write if you did not sleep at all, or if you did not get out of bed for a whole day, you might start to notice a pattern from week to week or even day to day. Write about your feelings  on the bottom or the back of that page if you like, you can write nothing, or 3 pages on how you feel, it might feel good, give it a try! Here is more info on journaling, if you would like to read more: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/13250-journaling-journalling-writing-therapy-therapeutic-writing/

 

Have you thought of talking to someone who CANNOT prescribe drugs to talk to?  A therapist (psychologist) might be a very good friend for you right now, to teach you non-drug ways to handle your feelings.  I think you might like having someone to talk to who can give you positive ways to handle your feelings, without handing you a drug!! You do not HAVE to see a psychiatrist if your GP will take over your Trazodone prescribing.  Using 3 or 5 beads a day of Effexor XR means that one pill or a bottle of pills you have will last a VERY, VERY LONG TIME.  A therapist cannot make you take drugs, it is not what they do.  I think it might feel good for you to have someone to talk to who is on YOUR SIDE.  Maybe you will decide that you do not need a psychiatrist on your case anymore, esp. if you feel they are not helping you! What do you think of that?  Just make sure your GP will take over your Trazodone prescription BEFORE you do that! You might need to try phoning a couple of different therapists and chatting before you find one you like enough to go and see, so keep your psychiatrist until you are happy, and have had a couple of sessions before you fire your P-doc! Again, this is YOUR CHOICE!

 

Be well,

Skeeter

 

I really appreciate your response. It is quite thoughtful. You put a lot of effort into it.  I did take the 5 beads today. I really appreciate your encouragement, and I have been journaling.  I will look at that website. 

[Downbutnotout]

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

I really appreciate your response. It is quite thoughtful. You put a lot of effort into it.  I did take the 5 beads today. I really appreciate your encouragement, and I have been journaling.  I will look at that website. 

 I did look at your story. 

[Downbutnotout]

I’d like some more encouragement please. I’ll do the same . 

[Downbutnotout]

After reading other posts, I realize I am not having the physical symptoms others are having. To say I’m suffering more than others is being without insight. . I am amazed at the strength some people have . They are really suffering but finding hope at the end of the tunnel.  

[Skeeter]

DownBNO,

You are suffering in a different way.  It is not less or more.  I think it is good for you to realize that minor symptoms are not something to worry about.  A muscle tic is just a muscle tic, causes a twitch, is usually not painful, just annoying as all get out.  I do hope you will think about seeing a therapist.  It is 100% up to you, do not do it unless you wish to.  But this person is not a family member, so the worry from the receiving party is not there with every issue you have.  Any sign (something you can see, like a eye twitch) or a symptom (something you feel) is best look up here not on our search bar, but by going to any search engine (Bing, Google, etc.), and typing in, for example, "stomach upset, Surviving Antidepressants" (no quotes of course).  Chances are, someone has had the same thing, and if not, ask here, okay?

 

Now one way to get out of your head is to help others, IMO. Go to the introduction forum page, and see if you can answer any questions others might have.  Or see if you can offer solace and support to someone else who needs it.  It will do you good, and it will help them as well.  Everyone here needs support.  The mods, the membership, everyone.  If you are having a better day than normal, reach our to someone and help them.  That is what I did when I got here.  I wrote my story, then set to helping others.  For me, it is ingrained to help others, but it does not have to be!  Did you know that going to someone who is having a really bad day, and saying something as simple as, "I have not been through what you have been, but I am really sorry you are having a bad time.  I hope that tomorrow is better for you!" can totally change someone's outlook?  Do not expect the mods to prop you up every day, help others, nd let them help you.  This is a community, mods are no better or worse than anyone else here, and taking a lot of time on one person takes us away from helping many others. We are not better at offering advice, except maybe when it comes to tapering, and which drug to taper first, so do not always look fr us to speak to you, other membes like to help, too!  You might even gain some friends along the way! 

 

You seem that you might have some extra time on your hands, yes?  You Tube has a multitude of beginning yoga classes, stretching classes, beginning meditation lessons, or for me, I enjoy ballet, and all you need is the back of a chair or a wall to steady yourself, and the ability to bend your knees (do not follow the arms until you master the legs, or ONLY follow the arms and head (if you like) and not the legs before trying it all together), and  only doing just the barre portion at first is best (the part where they stand, holding on to the barre), just for 10 minutes takes very little movement and effort, but does get your blood moving, which can help your mood!  Here are some other things I like to do- to purchase, go online to a craft store to find these and other things that are inexpensive and that passed time for me when I was sort of where you are right now.  Calligraphy (buy a beginner book, a small pack of calligraphy markers, and a special pad of paper).  Fun to learn, and then you can address envelopes in a very unique way!!!   Cross stitch kits that have everything included (eBay can get you some very nice all-inclusive kits for cheap.  Online you can learn how to do it properly, or check out a book at the library, if you like.  You can buy jewelry kits, and make jewelry like they show, or design your own (and give them as gifts!). I like Crossword books, coloring (online or Walmart has a large selection of adult coloring books, and I suggest gel pens that have metallic ink, iridescent ink, etc, along with regular colors.  All of these do pass time, and cost very little.  You can do these in bed or on the couch or at the table.  Depending on how I feel is how I choose where.  On a personal note, when I was having a hard time years ago, I undertook a very involved counted cross-stitch (the fabric with squares does not have the pattern printed on it like in most of the all-inclusive kits), and it took me a few months at a time for a few years to complete it.  I gave it to my very favorite relative (who it was always intended for), and she says it is the most important gift she has ever received, and has hung it next to her bed, where she can see it every single day.  I turned what was a tough time for me into a gift she adores so very much, and made my hard time better!  See how you can help someone else with art therapy?  I moved to 4 different states while doing that project...lol!!

 

 I am very pleased that what I wrote meant something to you, as it does take me a long time to write posts, as I think very carefully, so thank you for your compliment, it meant a lot.  Please use some of your time here to pay it forward, okay?  That is what I did, and for me it paid off in huge ways, even before being chosen as a mod.  I realized I was not the only one out there having a hard time, and somehow, that made it easier.  If it is easier for you, do not read a person's whole story.  Just stopping in and saying hello means a heck of a lot to those struggling here. You understand what I am saying?  I know you cannot do it every day.  It is not your job.  But how would you feel, knowing you made some people have a better day, just for taking 60 seconds of your time?  Guess what, some of those people will check back on you- the ones who are able.  Give it a try, okay?

 

Now I have written 2 very long notes to you.  That is a lot for me.  I must go check on others, but I do hope you will work on doing different projects with your time, and maybe helping others.  It really does help pull us out of our shell when we are not feeling very good.

 

Lastly, I want to comment on your grandson.  A child has a different "love account" for each person.  Just because he seems more attached to someone right now means NOTHING.  It is not a war.  He can have as many love accounts as there are people in his life, and he can love each one of them just as much as he loves the next.  You are struggling right now, and it is hard to be around him.  Do not sweat it.  The children remember when you ARE there, not when you are not.  If you wait to spend time with him until you are feeling better, you will realize that there are no winners and no losers.  The child needs to be the winner, and when you are up to it, exchange funny stories about him with the other grandparent,  there is enough love for every person.  Did I love one grandmother more than the other?  NO!  They both loved me unconditionally, and that is all that mattered to me.  He is still young, as are you.  Take time to get better, as it is what we all need, and when you are with him, do what he wants, make him whatever food he is into (mine was bologna sandwiches with ketchup...lol), watch his favorite shows with him, teach him songs- that is what he will remember.  My grandmother was out of my life for a year when one of her son's died (my uncle).  I was 6.  I was told she was not feeling well, and I accepted that, as children do.  I only remember now, because I asked what happened back then.  Did it ever decrease my love for her?  NO! Please remember that.  When he is older, you can explain that medications had unanticipated consequences for you, but you made up for it by being there when you could fully be there and connect with him, and he will understand, no more talk of winners and losers,  There is no room for ugliness and hate in a beloved grandchild's life!!  I am not speaking as a mod in this paragraph, I am speaking as a grandchild only.  You are no less of a grandmother because you realize that right now you are not the person you want to present to him.  Knowing this makes you wise!  I do hope this helps you.

 

Be well!

Skeeter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

Oh my goodness! That is some post.  You really do put put effort into it. I used to be like you.

 

I worked out, did crafts, and volunteered. That’s how I worked on the depression stuff. I was doing okay before I made a big mistake and got tossed out of a volunteer position. I’ve let it destroy me. It is irrational.  

 

I reread the guidelines of this site and I realize why people would be annoyed with me. It is clearly stated what this site believes and what it is here for. 

 

I did comment on some people yesterday. I did try to give support. Minimum words, but some. Trying not to talk about myself. I realize That would not cheer them up..

 

I do have a lot of time on my hands. 

 

I was pretty down in the dumps until I read your very supportive post. Thank you so, so much. 

 

Thanks for the stuff about being a grandma. I did go over his house yesterday and tried to fake it. It kills me that I no longer have the right feelings for him. Being devoid of feelings is my biggest heartache. 

 

[Downbutnotout]

 

After watching Peter Breggin videos, I’m really disturbed. I hope that I’ll be able to updose and come off the effexor. No wonder I’m such a freaking mess. I hope I have the strength to carry on with this whole thing. I have been on these drugs in one form or another since 1992.  It’s really hard to face this. I’m trying to believe I will be able to do this. It scares me that the effexor is gone and the 5 beads is it right now. I didn’t have a great response today. I got to keep up my spirits. I guess I’m going to have to work at it. At least i canceled the appointment with the psychiatrist. Just say no to drugs.