Downbutnotout: Started a bridge to get off effexor

[powerback]

8 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

I’m so sorry you have the same issues too! It’s not fun! 

Not fun but it doesn't define us either so we cant let it ,its a tough one all the same .when its bad we need to read positive affirmations and create more positive experiences when able .

Take care .

[Downbutnotout]

I’m so sorry you have the same issues too! It’s not fun! 

[Downbutnotout]

• If you've had withdrawal symptoms for a month or more, it's likely your system is somewhat sensitized to drugs. For example, if you had been taking 20mg Celexa, you might wish to try reinstating at a lower dosage, such as 2mg-5mg. It may seem incredible, but these tiny doses are often sufficient to reduce withdrawal symptoms.
• Your present condition. If you have symptoms of hyper-reactivity, alerting (anxiety, panic, sleeplessness), you may be too sensitive for reinstatement. If you want to try it anyway, you might wish to try reinstating at a very low dosage, such as 1mg if you had been taking 20mg Celexa, for example, or other SSRIs with a standard dosage of 20mg.

[Downbutnotout]

Anxiety is very high tonight. I’ve had mixed results. Tonight is very rough. I am suffering right now. 

[Downbutnotout]

I woke up without anxiety, but am extremely depressed. How often do these windows come? Do they always come, or do some people not get them. I’ve had a few.   M y pattern has been they come with sleeplessness. My anxiety last night was very high. I could hardly stand it. I felt like I was jumping out of my skin.  I am lacking a lot of courage today. 

[Staz]

10 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

I woke up without anxiety, but am extremely depressed. How often do these windows come? Do they always come, or do some people not get them. I’ve had a few.   M y pattern has been they come with sleeplessness. My anxiety last night was very high. I could hardly stand it. I felt like I was jumping out of my skin.  I am lacking a lot of courage today. 

I don't get any windows at all so count your blessings DBNO.

[Downbutnotout]

Where are you in England? My dtr is living in London for the year. I want to get over to see her, but in this condition it is never going to happen. My son is visiting us for the week, and how I’m going to hide this from his is another story. I know only I have the power within me to change this.  I’m scared to exercise now because I’m afraid it’s going to rev me up. I used to use exercise a lot to deal with the depression. Now, I’m a chicken. I am very diminished. 

I think this is a cruel disease, and I’m sorry you have it too. It sounds like your feeling ill at the same time. It sounds like you at least trust your doctor a little. I don’t know what the right answer is. I think it’s different for different people. There are nice stories of recovery on here. 

[Downbutnotout]

My husband gave me 1/2 a Tylenol. He thought it might help inflammation. I m in the worst depression right now.i It’s really brutal. Is this a wave? 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by scallywag
split from another member's intro topic

[Downbutnotout]

On 1/1/2018 at 4:38 PM, Littlegrandma said:

Words with friends is a good one. A little hard for me now with a foggy brain.  I like toy blast and toon blast. Also  Scroodles. 

Yazy is low key for when anxiety is high. 

 

Ive been at this, my taper, for 7 mo. 

Ive had few windows but some partial days once in awhile. It was easier when it was warm out. Sitting in the sun or walking in the yard  or gardening was a nice relaxing distraction. I walk around Costco once in awhile or go out for lunch if I can handle it. My husband will take me for drives at night. It’s definitely a lifestyle change. But this too shall pass. Lg

Sorry I didn’t see this. Thank you for the suggestions of games. I’m afraid I’m too late to get off this stuff the right way. They haven’t suggested i up this. I thought the 5 beads were working a little, but I’m not so sure now . Is your main symptom depression? 

[Littlegrandma]

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

Sorry I didn’t see this. Thank you for the suggestions of games. I’m afraid I’m too late to get off this stuff the right way. They haven’t suggested i up this. I thought the 5 beads were working a little, but I’m not so sure now . Is your main symptom depression? 

You’re welcome. Hope you find something you like. It’s a good distraction when relaxation techniques aren’t working. 

 

I read earlier that your anxiety had let up a bit. How are you doing now?     Lg

[Downbutnotout]

Thanks for asking;  Anxiety was better this morning, but my depression isn’t great. 

[ChessieCat]

I've been tapering carefully since joining SA in October 2015.  I often experience periods of increased anxiety and/or mild depression.

[Downbutnotout]

I am confused about what I should do. I’ve been taking 5 beads since dec 26. I’m not sure if it’s helping. I’ve had periods of thinking it is. I have slept in the last 2 days, had terrible anxiety 2 days ago, terrible depression yesterday. Is there a mod on here who just did this with a few beads and worked their way up. I’m confused about where I should be heading. More beads and then taking them away? Or. Just keeping them here for a while. How much impact does 5 beads have on my body? If there’s someone who was almost totally off everything, then introduced several beads to Updose, I’d like to talk to them. I’m still in 50 mg if trazadone. I just don’t see anyone on here in the same situation. 

[Downbutnotout]

16 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I've been tapering carefully since joining SA in October 2015.  I often experience periods of increased anxiety and/or mild depression.

 

1 minute ago, Downbutnotout said:

I am confused about what I should do. I’ve been taking 5 beads since dec 26. I’m not sure if it’s helping. I’ve had periods of thinking it is. I have slept in the last 2 days, had terrible anxiety 2 days ago, terrible depression yesterday. Is there a mod on here who just did this with a few beads and worked their way up. I’m confused about where I should be heading. More beads and then taking them away? Or. Just keeping them here for a while. How much impact does 5 beads have on my body? If there’s someone who was almost totally off everything, then introduced several beads to Updose, I’d like to talk to them. I’m still in 50 mg if trazadone. I just don’t see anyone on here in the same situation. 

Just noticed your post chessie cat. I just feel really insecure about what I’m doing. I wish there was someone I could talk to who was in a similar situation to me. Thank you for answering. 

[AliG]

Hi DBNO. Please just stay the course for now. It's only been about 11 days, which is still early and after all the chaos, it is sounding like you are starting to make some progress. Of course you are going to have windows and waves and that's very normal in withdrawal. 

 

These drugs are powerful and 5 beads has an impact ~ remember when you first tried them, again?

 

I would be looking now to: stabilize for a good while and pursuing/ learning non - drug coping techniques. They are the way off the drugs, long - term. Have a look through Symptoms and Self - Care.

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

After stabilizing, you would gently taper off at the recommended rate - 10 %

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

[Downbutnotout]

Any supplements you’d suggest? I’m having a lot of problems functioning. I want to do these things, but fear of terrible anxiety is making it hard. I am no spring chicken. Thank you so much for answering me and so quickly! 

[scallywag]

22 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

My husband gave me 1/2 a Tylenol. He thought it might help inflammation. I m in the worst depression right now.i It’s really brutal. Is this a wave?

 

You may find the answer to your question by reading what other people have written about the cycle of windows and waves:

The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization.

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

i hope I’m not too old to beat this. I’m 67. My mood has been consistently low. It’s better than bring anxious. I did try going to the gym. It helped me go to the bathroom. I guess that’s something. My grandson is coming over tonight. I am going to try to be an actress. I used to enjoy my life a lot. 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

 

Just noticed your post chessie cat. I just feel really insecure about what I’m doing. I wish there was someone I could talk to who was in a similar situation to me. Thank you for answering. 

 

I'm no spring chicken either (just turned 60).  The point that I was trying to get across was that there are some parts of this withdrawal process that we need to accept and we need to learn and use non drug ways to cope (AliG gave you some links) to get through the discomfort.    Claire Weekes is good.  There are many videos on YouTube.  She explains that when we experience discomfort we can add to it (second fear) which then adds more discomfort (and can end up with us suffering a panic attack - I've been there, done that!).  This adds stress to the body and (I believe) that stress diverts the brains attention away from doing what it is always doing (trying to regain homoeostasis).

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

Any supplements you’d suggest? I’m having a lot of problems functioning. I want to do these things, but fear of terrible anxiety is making it hard. I am no spring chicken. Thank you so much for answering me and so quickly! 

 

The only 2 supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  I find that magnesium helps to take the edge off my anxiety.  I've tried going off it a few times and then gone back on it and feel that, for me, it does work.  When trying anything new always try only 1 thing at a time and start with a small dose.

[Downbutnotout]

I read through all your posts. It seems like you easily went through the process. 

Were you in a depression when you started this? Thanks for your suggestions. I’ll look through that link. I missed it. 

[Downbutnotout]

6 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

The only 2 supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  I find that magnesium helps to take the edge off my anxiety.  I've tried going off it a few times and then gone back on it and feel that, for me, it does work.  When trying anything new always try only 1 thing at a time and start with a small dose.

I did take a fish oil today. I’ll try the magnesium later. 

[Downbutnotout]

I am a nervous wreck this morning. I feel like this is all too much. I wish I could take an anxiety pill. I think my brain is way ahead of My body. 

[Littlegrandma]

It is just awful D. Take some deep breaths. Check out some of the many coping techniques posted on this forum. Change the channel. Meditate. Go for a walk outside if it’s not too icy or cold. I know how horrible it is, but it will pass. 

 Have you found a game on your phone to distract you?  

Just breathe.  Try not to let it carry you away.  Lg

[Downbutnotout]

Thanks lg. The thing I’m worried about is whether I’ve reinstated enough effexor beads. Ali told me to hold at 5 beads. I just can’t relax about this... my grandson has been here all weekend. My husband has mostly watched him. I’ve let him watch tv almost the entire time. Not good. I’ve got to stop worrying. I did try my meditation ap. My coping skills stink. 

[Downbutnotout]

On 10/21/2017 at 9:26 PM, baroquep said:

I guess you have no choice but to continue as you are and hope that the bridge does work for you.  I'd keep an eye on your symptom pattern so that you are aware if you start to develop any of the signs that you might be hit with withdrawal syndrome and be prepared to reinstate Effexor at a very small dose if this does happens.  It will be great if the bridge does work but probably best to be aware that it is not always successful so you can take the steps to minimize the discomfort.  Perhaps TMS therapy will help you to avoid having issues down the road, but I have no idea if this will either help or make things worse and doubt the doctors can answer this question either.  It would be a shame after getting approval from your insurance company for a therapy that just may work, that if you start to suffer withdrawal from Effexor, it would then be for naught. At least you will know, and the fact that you are here for answers, that you already have your doubts about the Prozac bridge, but at the very least you can be prepared if things don't go well.  

Really wish these doctors had the knowledge and experience to take people off of these drugs safely.  I'm not sure how long you have been on Effexor but I have been tapering it for over a year now and it is a beast to discontinue.  Even decreasing at 5% a month has been a challenge and withdrawal frightening and uncomfortable to say the least.  Knowing what I know about Effexor, and familiarizing myself with the information I found here, I declined to do the Prozac bridge as while it sounds good on paper, based on my experiences here, it rarely works and just makes things worse.  

 

When is your psychiatrist planning on stopping the Prozac?  

Is he/she familiar with withdrawal/discontinuance syndrome? 

When will you be starting TMS therapy?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist
Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

I can’t believe this happened to me! I can’t believe the tms wouldn’t work. I can believe you knew what you were talking about. 

[Littlegrandma]

1 hour ago, Downbutnotout said:

Thanks lg. The thing I’m worried about is whether I’ve reinstated enough effexor beads. Ali told me to hold at 5 beads. I just can’t relax about this... my grandson has been here all weekend. My husband has mostly watched him. I’ve let him watch tv almost the entire time. Not good. I’ve got to stop worrying. I did try my meditation ap. My coping skills stink. 

I know D. The whole process is so confusing and scary. It is very hard to not worry. But you’re anxiety was better at one point. We need to not think about it constantly.

 

how old is your grandson? Can you play a board game with him?  I watch my grandkids a few days a week. Theyre 5 and 22 mo. It is definitely stressful but can also be a distraction. I try not to use the tv too often as a sitter, but some days I rely on it a bit for the older one. It’ll be nice when we can get back outside. It’s been too cold to even sled. 

 

Im sorry you’re having such a hard time. This just sucks!!!!   Lg

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I can’t believe this happened to me! I can’t believe the tms wouldn’t work. I can believe you knew what you were talking about. 

 

8 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I wish I could take an anxiety pill.

 

You are trying to find a cure.  Unfortunately, nothing is going to magically or instantly fix your brain.  If you can understand and accept this I believe this helps to provide your brain the environment it needs.  Your brain wants stability, which is why AliG suggested holding on the 5 beads.  Holding on your current dose and time, together with non drug techniques to help you cope with the discomfort and stay as stress free as possible.

 

You may have already been given these links and you may have already read/seen them.  However, I suggest you check them out even if you have:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Also learning about psychiatric drugs is helpful.  Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic and Peter Breggin's Your Drug May Be Your Problem helped me to understand what these drugs do, which in turn helped me to understand about getting off them.

[Downbutnotout]

Than you chessie cat. At least I know you’re there for me. I really appreciate it. My ruminations are really bad. If it wasn’t for the  ruminations I could get through this. I think the effexor suppressed it. I am really miserable. I’ll keep trying these methods. But it’s hard for me  to do. I am doingsond if them. Someone tell me how bad seroquel is for you. Tell me his bad antidepressants are. My son is visiting tomorrow and I dont want him to see me like this. I’m starting to weaken. I don’t think those 5 beads are doing much. I think it’s like I’m cold turkey off the effexir. I am on practically nothing. 

[Kristine]

Hi DBNO,  Stay away from the Seroquel. In my experience it turned me into a non functioning zombie and worsened any depressive symptoms.  The below are two posts I have previously posted on you thread......

 

On 22/12/2017 at 11:08 AM, Downbutnotout said:

Hi DBNO,  I'm back!  Firstly, I have reread your posts.  You are suffering terribly and as I have said before the frequent chopping and changing of your medications is in my opinion a big issue.  No one on this site can make these decisions for you.  Everyone on this site is at a different stage in their journey.  There is a common theme in your posts (please correct me if I'm wrong)...

• you feel highly anxious, manic, irritable and depressed 24/7....suicidal at times.
• with little to no symptom relief and little sleep you are feeling desperate and will consider any treatment eg ECT
• you are frightened (this can exhibit itself as anger)
• the health professionals you have encountered have caused you harm and this has resulted in a lack of trust and a reluctance to seek another opinion 
• You find it difficult to concentrate and make decisions

From what I have read you have been on various psychotropic medications for 16 years.  The first drug I was prescribed 10 years ago was Effexor.  I was taken off effexor and put on another antidepressant and I remember the horrendous withdrawal symptoms.  I was consumed with a debilitating fear, I ate very little, cried frequently and rarely left my bed.  I do remember feeling so consumed with turmoil that I wanted to climb into my closet, with a blanket wrapped around me and hide.  I would clutch my head and scream.  I didn't know it at the time, but I was in the middle of a massive withdrawal wave.  I thought I was going crazy.

 

On 20/12/2017 at 8:29 AM, Downbutnotout said:

I feel like I’m not getting a response from my page because nobody wants to address the fact that I am really depressed. It seems like the other people on here are not as bad as I am. A lot of people are really encouraged. I guess this is more for people who have really decided that antidepressants don’t have any value at all. I am still not sure that they can’t help me although the failure rate is really high for me. On the other hand I never gave any of them 4 weeks to work. Because the side effects made me manic. 

 

Multiple people have offered advise but I think you are so distressed that you may be finding it difficult to sift through this information and  therefore, make an informed rational decision regarding the next step forward.  I know when I am distressed, my cognitive function plummets.  Over the past two years when I am distressed and suffering w/d it is a double whammy, because w/d also effects cognitive function.  

 

When I first commenced my own research into withdrawal, I stumbled across a invaluable resource.  It is called the "harm reduction guide to coming off psychiatric drugs" by Will Hall.  You can download it from here http://willhall.net/comingoffmeds/

It is free and you can print out your own copy.  I have dug out a quote from this guide which you may find helpful.....

 

"You may find that the goal of going off [medication] completely is not right for you at this time.  You may feel better staying on your medication, and decided instead to just reduce or continue at the same dosage, and focus on new ways to improve your life.  Follow your own needs without judgement or blame: get support for your decisions in the face of any feelings of shame or powerlessness"

 

In my opinion I would seek the assistance of another health professional.  Perhaps reinstating the Effexor 75mg which you said helped for a number of years (please get professional advice about this) I believe you need to stabilise before you start any more reductions in your medication. Your CNS is in overdrive and you need some peace, sleep and rejuvenation. I can only offer some humble advice BBNO, I wish I could help you more. 

 

You really are not alone in this messy journey. It's confusing, terrifying and just cruel. However, I really believe you can get through this.  I've come a long way but I've got a loooooong way to go. I'm talking years not months. 

 

I hope this has been some sort of small help and comfort to you. K

 

 

 

 

[Kristine]

On 26/12/2017 at 9:42 AM, Kristine said:

Hi DBNO, Hope you managed to get some sleep. I will try and respond to your questions, but I'm no expert and I can only share some advice based on my own experiences. 

On 25/12/2017 at 1:43 PM, Downbutnotout said:

Let me make sure i have this right. My objective is to relieve the withdrawal symptoms which sounds like what I am having. All the anxiety, raging, craziness is most likely from withdrawal symptoms.

You are on the right track.  You need to stabilise. I have written in your thread about the Effexor withdrawal I experienced 10 years ago. Marmot also shared her experience.

On 25/12/2017 at 1:43 PM, Downbutnotout said:

I was instructed to take 5 beads of effexor starting tomorrow. This should help alleviate more of the withdrawal symptoms. 

I think Alto's suggestion should help but you need to consider the other suggestions offered by Alto and moderators.  For example....Finding a therapist, someone you feel comfortable with and perhaps someone who can teach you meditation (particularly mindfulness). In my humble opinion if you place all your focus on the 5 beads alleviating the your symptoms, you are once again placing all your eggs in one basket. 

 

On 25/12/2017 at 1:43 PM, Downbutnotout said:

 

I’m approaching you because you’ve been through this. I know you’ve answered some of these questions. I am looking for reassurance that this approach seems logical.

 

Yes this seems logical but from my experience other coping tools need to be put into action.  The moderators have put serveral links on your thread relating to this.  The following are some examples which I have utilised in my life:

 

1. Mindfulness meditation:  Start with the basic breathing techniques. Meditation takes time and effort. For full benefit it must be done on a daily basis.
2. When I'm experiencing acute panic/anxiety and meditation is not possible I use the 4-7-8 breathing technique. I have previously put a link on your thread.
3. Aromatherapy: I invested in an 'altrasonic aromatherapy diffuser' (they come in some beautiful designs and probably many on sale at the moment!) This has helped me immensely. I use various essential oils.  If I have a headache/migraine I use peppermint oil. Sleep and relaxation I use lavender oil. I find rosemary oil beneficial when I meditate because it helps me focus but is calming at the same time.  
4. Progressive muscle relaxation: this is a guided meditation I do just before sleep. Laying down in bed. It involves tensing muscle groups and then quickly relaxing those muscles. I have found this very helpful over the years.
5. Nutrition packed smoothie: I often don't have much of an appetite especially in the morning. So I make a smoothie with milk, banana/berries, yoghurt and protein powder. I always have frozen berries in the freezer. I find this is easy to digest. These drugs and w/d have played havoc with my digestive system.
6. Gentle stretching and a short daily walk. At the moment my balance isn't great and I'm afraid of falling, so I'll just slowly walk around the garden - using mindfulness walking meditation. You mentioned swimming helped you.

Ruminating thoughts...I often can not escape this. So this is what I do. I acknowledge the thoughts as 'just thoughts' and refuse to give them any more attention than that. Then I'll either listen to a pod cast or play an app game on my phone (lol) farm heros works best for me. Sometimes I'll do both at the same time. I do whatever works at the time.   

There are many more, but you need so start slow. One step at a time! 

On 25/12/2017 at 1:43 PM, Downbutnotout said:

When did you feel a window? How long did it take? You were on a lot more stuff than me too. My biggest frustration is not feeling any bit of emotion.

This is a really difficult question to answer.  Much of the time I live hour by hour and I may get minutes of 'window relief'. Some times hours. Sometimes none.  I have experienced a few days. I find if I neglect to invest my energy in some of the of the practical coping techniques (listed above) I am much worse. This process is not linear. It is important to appreatiate the windows when they appear but not to grasp desperately onto them in the hope that they will not disappear. The reality is, another wave will hit but another window will open.  For me acceptance is key. I am accepting this process and not wasting my energy fighting it. Don't get me wrong, I get upset, l cry, get irritable (many more)...i will acknowledge these natural responses and then do what I can to work through the pain.

 

dbno, these are only some suggestions from my own experience. I have a long way to go and it does scare me at time. You need to find what works for you. Trial and error. Just no more excessive chopping and changing of medication!

 

You can do this! K

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

Thx. Haven’t forgotten. Today is a really horrible day! 

[Downbutnotout]

1 hour ago, Kristine said:

 

Hi DBNO,  Stay away from the Seroquel. In my experience it turned me into a non functioning zombie and worsened any depressive symptoms.  The below are two posts I have previously posted on you thread......

 

Okay. I am just worried my brain is too damaged to come back . I keep reading that;I need to believe it can come back and not take 10 years. As for the seroquel I thought it might help my ruminating thoughts. I guess I’ll just have to let them float away . Thank you . You are so strong !

[Kristine]

I'm only offering advice from my own experience DBNO...seroquel is an atypical antipsychotic.  These medications are often referred to as a chemical lobotomy (not within medical circles).   I wasn't able to feel anything at all.  Or think.  Or even walk at times.  I was on 300mg with a cocktail of other drugs thrown in.  It also plays havoc on the blood glucose and the pancreas, leading to weight gain and type 2 diabetes in some cases.  It can lower the White Blood Cell count which can lead to increased vulnerability and longer recovery from physical illnesses. Not to mention GERD and a host of other problems.  Yes, it may help your ruminating thoughts in the short term...but at what cost? 

 

Focus on the many non-drug techniques to help you through the pain. It's not easy.  But in my book, nothing worth doing is ever going to be easy.  It will take time and effort and please be kind to yourself!  😊 K

[Downbutnotout]

Oh  I think I’m convinced.thank you . I just have to make up my mind. I have to find some guts which I used to have:

[Downbutnotout]

Is anyone else obsessed with this site? I think it takes a lot of courage for me to attempt to get off these drugs after 25 years.have si about everyday. But now I’m understanding that’s no really an option. After reading the information on here I am scared to death of trying new drugs. People suffereing from akathisia and working?  I don’t have that, but I have had terrible aggressive behavior and mania. People in bed with severe illness. People turning into zombies. I felt that one with lithium.  Then people saying it takes years and years. Some people with no windows or happy feeling. That’s where I am. My son is visiting for the week. How am I not going to be a sour puss. My dtr keeps saying, “there’s nothing I can do mom, leave it to the medical professionals.”  I have to find the courage within me. I have to.