EdinburghGuy: Dilemma, tapering 10 years fluoxetine, dr wants me on venlafaxine

[EdinburghGuy]

My biggest problem is the constant waking at night, morning cortisol. Saw someone tried taurine and had no side effects. Is it worth trying? Any other things worth trying, will drink camomille tea.

 

I cant black out curtains but have an eyemask with an eye pillow. I get the anxiety in the dark at 3am etc. So dont think it is helping much.

 

Still feel suicidal everyday. The mornings are so bad and just lasts most of the day. Cant function. 

[Rosetta]

I understand.  What you described above is exactly what has happened to me.  Waking with anxiety in the dark, terribly anxious mornings and unable to function all day.  If I can get through it you can, too.  Believe that.  The good news is that eventually you will heal.  This isn't permanent.  Keep that in mind and hold on to it.  

[EdinburghGuy]

How long though. I cant take months, let alone years. You have kids and husband to fight for. I don't. My parents etc. Are all annoyed with me, a lot of people forgot about me, or say its all me, not the drugs.

 

So much pain, not just of drugs, but of what my life has become,

 

I guess i could go back up to 40mg if all else fails. Not sure if it will cause problems, or just put me back into he crappy fatigued way i have been for the past 12 years, but i could (just about) function in that state, but trying to just keep fighting at 20mg.

[Altostrata]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:19 AM, EdinburghGuy said:

I am not sure, i think my anxiety raises now after taking the prozac, usually at 12pm (take it usually between 6-8 with fish oil and magnesium). Becomes less in the evening 6pm.

 

On 6/23/2018 at 1:51 AM, EdinburghGuy said:

Took prozac about an hour ago, feel quite anxious again, not sure if its me or drug. Think only way to test properly is few days stopping?

 

I'm confused about the time, do you take Prozac in the morning or at night?

 

When did you start 20mg Prozac? Please put dates in your signature.

 

What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. We need this information. If the Prozac is causing anxiety, it is too high a dose for you and could be interfering with your sleep. Increasing the dosage will make this worse.

 

It also sounds like you have family problems that are adding to your stress and distracting you from taking care of yourself. You need to deal with your family problems. Have you tried to talk to a counselor? Sounds like the entire family might go.

 

[Rosetta]

Yes, I have a child.  That makes it harder to give up.  There are people here who don't have children, and they find a different reason to keep going.  Of course, the most appropriate reason to keep going is YOU.  You are a unique and special person.  There is no one else like you.  You are an important part of this world all by yourself.  You have something to add to our world -- something no one else can add.  There's no way to know when your existence is going to be the most important thing at that moment in time, but it's very likely that the moment hasn't occurred yet.  

 

Maybe it's your parents that are your reason.  They are upset because they love you to an irrational degree.  They would be devastated if you were not here.  They may seem to be against you, but they are only reacting out of fear because they love you, and they have no control over what is happening.  They may be angry, and it's a scary feeling to have your parents be angry.  It's common for children to do something dangerous against their best interest, and it's always scary for the parent.   The love a parent has for a child is quite frankly bizarre, irrational, and self-destructive.

 

Anger comes from fear.  Anger never comes from any other emotion.  It's not an emotion all by itself.  It is tangled up with fear.  Anger is a manifestation of fear.  Your parents are afraid.  They have no control.  So, they are trying to force you to take control.  They think taking control is doing what the doctor says to do.  You do have to take control, of course, but if you asked my opinion, I would say that you can do that only by surrendering to the natural process of healing that will occur if you can treat your nervous system gently.  

 

Try to reduce the fear your parents have if you can.  Call a hotline instead of telling them you feel suicidal.  It always, always, always makes my husband angry if I talk about that feeling.  It always makes me feel worse if I tell him that I feel SI when I need support to get through the feeling.  He simply cannot give that support.  He gets angry and then the feeling gets stronger rather than weaker.  I have told him this over and over and over.  I cannot make him understand this.  He cannot change his behavior.  It's impossible.  For my own self preservation I have to look elsewhere for support in those moments.  Usually I get through them alone.  I just wait until the feelings are gone.  They always go.  And he loves me, but he's not my parent.  The way a parent would feel about this must be off the charts.  It would send one into complete panic mode, and all sorts of things would be said or done, I imagine.  Quite frankly, I think the fear in my husband is not fear for himself, but for my daughter.  He might be able to help me in those moments otherwise.    

 

Yes, I'm lucky that the person who takes care of me agrees with my course of action.  That's true.  That allows me to avoid a lot of strife and gives me more support until I can heal.  It also allows me to write to you.  So, let the luck of each person who Artie's to you be your luck.  For now, try to remember that your parents are reacting in the only way they can to their own fear and concern.  At some point you will become certain of your course of action.  Then, you can tell your parents with complete confidence that you are certain.  Maybe that will help them.  I hope so.  For now you can give them time.  Just stay here with them and give them time to see improvement in your condition.  

 

Eventually, you will see that you are recovering.  Your parents will see it at some point probably after you do.  People do survive this without the luck of having an understanding parent or spouse.  It's all about waiting for the worst to be over and avoiding making the situation worse by irritating the nervous system.  It's all about giving yourself time.

 

Now, on to the issue of treating your system gently: Its important to find out as quickly as possible if your dose is too high.  Please do as Alto asks and keep notes about your time of taking P and the time of your symptoms.  Give yourself that chance.  Give yourself that option of avoiding further destabilization.  

 

You think that going back to 40 would put you in the same state of mind that you were in back before you dropped the dose, but it doesn't work that way.  Once you are in this mess, a dose you took before the destabilization of your nervous system can be too high for you.  Alto seems to be concerned that 20 may be too high.  If you can do what is necessary for Alto to give you advice, then you may avoid some of the symptoms that make it hard to get through each day.  

 

Alto has been through this horror herself with no one like herself to help her.  She was on the medication merry go round.  The doctors made her condition worse.  It took her many years to find a doctor who could help her get well.  She wants to help people avoid the medication merry go round that she was on.  One might even say that helping us is the one thing that makes all her suffering in the past worthwhile.  Take full advantage of that without remorse -- keep notes for a few days and report them.  Then for a few more.  Until Alto has the info to form an opinion.  Then you will at least have her opinion.  

 

I hope you get some rest, Rosetta

[powerback]

1 hour ago, EdinburghGuy said:

How long though. I cant take months, let alone years. You have kids and husband to fight for. I don't. My parents etc. Are all annoyed with me, a lot of people forgot about me, or say its all me, not the drugs.

 

So much pain, not just of drugs, but of what my life has become,

 

I guess i could go back up to 40mg if all else fails. Not sure if it will cause problems, or just put me back into he crappy fatigued way i have been for the past 12 years, but i could (just about) function in that state, but trying to just keep fighting at 20mg.

just because your family says these things doesn't make them right ,stop wasting valuable energy on  unconscious people ,I respect there your family but they are contributing to your stress ,I cant even bring anything up with my mam anymore [I don't want to either] because seeing the pain and hurt in her heart for me is extremely triggering .she is a saint to stick by me anyway .she witness me in serious distress .

Practice not bringing your situation up ,fight it ,I know its hard .vent on your thread .

Practice taking your focus away from this ,find something ,im getting a little better myself ,when a nasty thought comes to mind I take a deep breathe and say I'm safe and its only a thought .

Take care and think of staying out of drama as your path to recovery ,one of many .

 

[Songbird]

On 6/23/2018 at 9:41 PM, Songbird said:

 What we need to see for every individual day over several days is:

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in morning
- Time and description of any symptoms in the morning
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in afternoon
- Time and description of any symptoms in the afternoon
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in evening
- Time and description of any symptoms in the evening
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in middle of the night
- Time and description of any symptoms in the middle of the night (such as waking)
 
Include any supplements taken as well.  For example:

 

23 June

7 a.m. woke up, anxiety 3/10

8 a.m. ate breakfast, took 20mg Prozac tablet

10 a.m. anxiety 7/10, nausea 3/10

12 p.m. ate lunch, anxiety 5/10, nausea 1/10

2 p.m. anxiety 4/10, nausea 2/10

6 p.m. ate dinner, took magnesium tablet 200mg, anxiety 2/10, no nausea

8 p.m. anxiety 1/10

11 p.m. went to bed, anxiety 2/10, difficulty falling asleep for 2 hours

4 a.m. woke up, no anxiety, went back to sleep for 3 hours

 

This is just a made up example.  Please keep notes about your day and post them here each day so we can see in more detail what is happening, thanks

 

This is what we are asking for.

[EdinburghGuy]

Ok, sorry I am a bit useless with all this. Will try and write the correct info soon. Just in a lot of pain and comfusion right now. I take the 20mg prozac in the morning, usually 9am with fish oil and magnesium. Last night had an extra magnesium and camomile tea and had a bit better sleep and morning. Will see how it goes tonight. Will try and rest and write the correct info soon. 

 

This drug has taken so much of my life already, I dont want it to take any more. But the fight to live is really difficult, my will power is very low right now (even though I might have less symtoms than others on here). Thank you for caring and trying to help. 

[Rosetta]

Hi.   The fight to live is difficult and it's not the number of symptoms or the severity necessarily that make it hard.  In the beginning of WD you are struggling with a brain that is throwing a lot of negative thoughts at you.  They are misfires.  They are t true.  This will get you easier.  Sometimes it goes back to being hard but then it gets easier again.

 

If I were you I would choose either magnesium or fish oil and take only a small amount.  Adding both of those to your Prozac dose might be making things worse.  After you feel sure that the one supplement isn't causeing a reaction you can increase the amount or try to add the other one.  Some people have found that they can't take one of those until later in the process.

[Songbird]

17 hours ago, EdinburghGuy said:

I take the 20mg prozac in the morning, usually 9am with fish oil and magnesium. Last night had an extra magnesium and camomile tea and had a bit better sleep and morning.

 

On 6/24/2018 at 12:21 AM, Songbird said:

I would suggest taking them at least two hours apart.  You might even leave the fish oil out for a while.

 

I would leave out the fish oil for now because it can be stimulating for some people. 

 

I'm glad to hear that magnesium and chamomile tea helped you to sleep better, that's good news.

[EdinburghGuy]

No last night was hell again with tne chamomile and magnesium slept but kept getting the horrible anxiety and chest pains in sleep. Using a bineareal beats app to sleep, will try not using it tonight. Will leave thr fish oil out today.

[Miko789]

Hi EG,

 

it's really difficult to get through when there are other people affecting you. , Effexor is very bad drug,  Withdrawal is hell, I've been  and I know. Stay out.

How's your sleep? 

When bad thoughts come to your mind take deep breaths and go for a walk.

I know its difficult but don't listen to your parents, they have no knowledge about withdrawal,

From my experience I would suggest taking omega 3 fish oil, it helps.

 

Take care and  and trust your instinct.

[Rosetta]

How are you?

[EdinburghGuy]

Thanks for asking. Pretty awful. 

 

Still taking 20mg prozac in morning, took fish oil and magnesium yesterday in evening (not taking today, see if any difference)

 

Hard to get to sleep - heart racing, pounding hard etc. Then when I sleep i wake up at 3am with chest pain, horrible anxiety, happens at 5am, 9am. Messed me up so much I just lay in bed today thinking of suicide. Just so hopeless right now, doing anything is tough. Slept at 1pm for a bit, but again wake with the horrible death feeling.

 

Having a sleep study done but dr thinks it is unlikly to be apnea.

 

Maybe going up to 40mg is my only choice, I know some dont reccomend here but just sick of conflicting info and no solution or help from nhs.

 

Go up to 40mg could be worse.

Change meds could be worse plus horrible side effects

Stay where I am suffer, maybe not get better, stay as I am

Drop dose could be worse

 

Just worn out, lying in bed hopeless, alll energy spent just on not completely losing it

[Rosetta]

I wish there was an easy solution.  Hold on.  You will get better. You can see progress only when you look at the past, unfortunately.  Giving your system stability is the most important thing.  

 

Any luck on on the dose and symptoms diary?  When you can manage to do that I think it will help, but I know that sometimes we are just getting through the hour and any extra effort is beyond us.  

 

I'll be thinking about you.

 

--Rosetta

[EdinburghGuy]

Yeah been putting off the symptom diary, just feel so fed up and hopeless dont want to do it, trying to distract myself but not really working. There isnt much to it, just anxiety all the time, depression headaches sometimes, bad insomnia. 

 

Will try to write something at some point.

[Rosetta]

You should at least make a note everyday of how you feel about 1/2 an hour to an hour after you take your dose.  Just that one bit of info would be useful.  You don't want to take too much and get hooked at that dose.

 

Would you please indicate in your signature what date you starting taking 20 mg?  I can't remember and the Mods will need that info to be easy to find.  Ok? Here's a link:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/settings/signature/

[EdinburghGuy]

Diary (maybe not exactly what you want, but I tried)

 

Slept better than yesterday

Woke at 12,3,6, and finally at 11 (maybe more)

Didn't take notes, just wanted to sleep. 

 

After months of hell, at least I get some sleep.

 

First time I felt the horrible feelings in my dreams. I seem to be dreaming more since lowering prozac. Had worse days in terms of symptoms, but my will to live is probably at a real low.

 

I think Prozac has messed up my REM sleep for all these years.

 

Twice I have had a dream about me as a child playing with toy race car tracks. I was never really into it as a kid. Part of me hopes it is my subconscious trying to create new neural pathways, new tracks in the brain. But that is just wishful thinking probably.

 

Slept with just brown noise, no binarual beats, mask and pillow, fan.

 

11am wake, horrible anxiety went after in bed for a while.

 

Bathroom, 20my Prozac, large porridge, cinnamon and raisins

 

Feeling hopeless, depressed

 

Stayed in bed all of yesterday, will try and go out today. In bed again at the moment.

 

Crave ice cream everyday don't know why. 

 

Too weak and messed up to work. Wasting each day.

 

11.30 Read email from samaratins. Ex wife doesn't reply anymore. She has given up.

 

Lie in bed, watch videos, decided to have shower and spend day in Edinburgh walking, do things I like. Will monitor anxiety throughout day for surviving antidepressants. I don't write diaries usually, don't like it, bit will force myself. Maybe the site is keeping me alive, saving me from effexor hell.

 

11.30 watch YouTube videos. Stop myself from watching suicide videos, Kate Spade etc. Watch comedy instead.

 

11.45 Notice heart rate goes up, crap but not as bad as usual. Weird muscle spasms in leg/calf, inner trembling feeling but not as severe as other times. Start of headache , have water. Shaking.

 

12.00 heart rate still up. Shakey. Shower change etc. Goes down, not as bad as other times.

 

12.45 Walked to train station, had double chocolate magnum ice cream while walking. Have to carry some water. Legs feel funny, not as bad as other days. 

 

Think about suicide, and how messed up this situation is. How a drug that was meant to be safe has probably caused way more problems. It has ruined my life and will kill me. Yet no one knows or believes it.

 

I wasn't this bad at the start. Stop drug and feel way worse than anything I have felt in life.

 

Walk with umbrella in case I need it.

 

Hate thinking about this constantly, always looking for escape. Writing diary makes me think about it more. Want to just curl up in bed, but did that yesterday, forcing myself to breathe air.

 

13:00

 

Legs shake and tremble a bit on train, I can make it stop if I think about it. (Not akathesia like when I was off prozac)

 

 

13:16

 

Ruminate on the train. Should get a job but so messed up some days I can't do anything. Not so bad today so far.

 

No job, no relationship. Eating away my savings. Health is messed up. Lots to be depressed about. Can't quit Prozac or will get pssd. What a big f-ing mess.

 

Slight headache. Tired.

 

13:30

 

Curry for lunch, side of chips. Will be told I need to eat clean etc. But don't care right now.

 

2:00

 

Very depressed. Thirsty. Slight heart palpitations.

 

 

2:10

 

Extreamly depressed. Thirsty. Want to go home. Strange heart palpitations. Very tired

 

2:30 bit better after sugar free lemon drink. Heart palpitations, depressed. Want to go to bed. Forcing myself to walk. Legs funny. Very tired. 

 

3:00

 

Forcing self to walk. Looking in charity shops. Bit better but still not good can't take years of this.

 

3:15 thirsty, appetiser

 

3:20 feel better, almost normal

 

3:45 tired, depressed, not as much as morning. Legs hurt from walking.

 

4:20 tired, more depression today than anxiety for some reason. Feet hurt. Got train home. No motivation to do anything else. Thirsty.

 

4:55

Back in bed. Head feels awful. Like constant hang over. Just want to die. Water and apple.

 

5:10

 

Replied to semaratins (cc ex wife), cried. Watching YouTube as usual. Benzo hell videos. Benzos seem worse symptoms than what I am going through.

 

 Yet my depression is so bad today. Feel so alone. Should be stronger, have more fight but can't. Watching others live while I die.

 

5:15

Crying. Asking why god hates me. What did I do to him?  I tried to do the right things and I have been given all his pain.

 

 

17:50 Dinner: meat, cous cous, hummus, bit of cheese. Ice cream.

 

Slight palpitations.

 

18:20 watching comedy In bed, chest palpitations, slight pain. Generally OK though, apple.

 

19:00 feel almost normal. Slight palpitations

 

19:15 normal, actually bit happy. Water. Slight palpitations.

 

19:45 slight anxiety and palpitations.

 

20:30 almost normal. Slight palpitations and anxiety. Hot face, head. Water apple. Brushed teeth.

 

Usually feel OK at this time, bit hopeful etc. But when I sleep it starts all over again.

 

21:10 same, tired but will take a while to fall asleep.

 

21:50 same will try going to sleep, usually takes a while since withdrall. Difficult to fall asleep since .

 

People went to sleep at 11. Woke up at 3, 5 etc. Anxiety/morning cortisol wasn't as horrific this night, but still not good. Wake up in the morning feels awful.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Songbird
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[Songbird]

That's great, EdinburghGuy!  Try to keep your journal like this every day and post the info here.  It seems you had some good windows during the day when you felt close to normal - that's a good sign.

 

It's great that you were able to get out and walk and do some things you like.  Watching comedy also sounds like a good thing to do.  I would stick to positive and light things (movies, books, etc.) and avoid anything dark, scary or negative.  You might also try other self-help techniques, such as mindfulness, positive self-talk and affirmations.  Check out some of the links here: Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

[EdinburghGuy]

Sorry, I found writing the journal difficult - thinking about my symptoms all the time, rather than destraction and escaping, focusing on extranal things. Will try a shorter version, maybe not everyday. Hope I can get through this. Also updated my sig.

 

Maybe you guys are keeping me alive or saving me from more torture, I dont know. Still got a lot of emotional pain from all this. Still trying to figure out my life and what to do. This experience is still overwhelming for me at the moment.

[Rosetta]

You will get through this.  

 

Reading your diary reminds me of so many dark times and thoughts such as Why?  Why did this happen?  What did I do?  You didn't do anything.  This happened because other people were hopeful they could cure depression and they messed up!  This happened because you trusted pharmaceutical companies who knew the researchers messed up but saw the chance to make a lot of money.  This happened because the drugs make people feel better for a while, maybe even years.  I believe at one time the drugs saved my life!!!  This happened because doctors are unaware and want to believe the risks of this drug do not outweigh the gains.  This happened because doctors do t believe what their patients tell them.  You did nothing wrong.  No one tried to hurt you on purpose.  It's just age old human frailty, age old human hubris, age old human mistakes compounded by greed.

 

Thousands, probably tens of thousands of people would believe you if you had the chance to hear from them.  So many people have been through this and survived.  I know that feeling that one is dying.  You aren't, but it sure feels that way.  I've been three and so have many, many people on this site.  It will pass.  

 

I'm glad you went out.  That's a great sign -- that you wanted to, that you knew you should, that you could, that you did. A wonderful, wonderful sign.  If you are tired today just go for a short walk.  You probably had a lot of exercise yesterday and sunshine.  Yes, your brain is rewiring.  That's why you feel bad, that's why you had those thoughts about toy trucks, and that is the silver lining here -- the brain can repair itself.  Thank God this isn't a permanent condition!!!

 

Peace, Rosetta

[Songbird]

12 hours ago, EdinburghGuy said:

Will try a shorter version

 

A shorter version is fine - you could even just list symptoms and give a number out of ten, e.g. "11:00 a.m. anxiety 5/10, palpitations 3/10".

[EdinburghGuy]

8:00 two apples

 

Palpitations not as bad as night before. 3

 

Hopeless depressed worry, want to stay in bed.

 

Two /three awakenings at night, terror/anxiety not as bad as other nights

 

Palpitations and getting to sleep were bad the night before though.

 

11.00am

 

Slept, palpitations better 2

 

11:05 Prozac 20mg apple

 

Don't know to decrease or increase or hold Prozac - ultimately want to decrease but functioning and being normal is more important.

 

Definitely better than I was, but stillborn normal. Angry, sad, jealous of normal people. Sad my life has become this.

 

No job, no wife, no children, little friends, fear of pssd once stop, overweight. My will to fight, will to survive lowest in life so far. Very lonely.

 

Watching a lot of films to escape. Might go to cinema today. Special screening of 'Deer Hunter' at 19:00 I've never seen it.

 

Don't want to write diary and obsess about symptoms but want to figure out Prozac dosage, want to get better and move on with life if I can. Don't want to kill myself, yet don't want to be tortured everyday.

 

11:30 slight palpitation increase, sad no motivation, slight shakey hands.

 

12:00 still in bed. Notice palpitations and inner trembling when still and quiet. Feels like I've drank a lot of coffee. 

 

(Fatigue and tiredness was a big problem when I was on 40mg, I used to drink lots of coffee, no coffee since withdrawal symptoms, no it is the opposite, too much energy to the point it is debilitating)

 

12:10 lunch breaded fish, salad (sauces), ice-cream with fruit.

 

12:30

In bed

Anxiety increase 1 or 2, palpitations, headache, inner trembling, depressed

 

Not as bad as other times, but not normal.

 

12:45pm

 

Shower etc. Feel better. Still constant palpitations, inner trembling but not as severe.

 

1:00pm will try magnesium, see if I monitor any differences. 500mg

 

Reply Samaritan's email

Palpitations, inner shakeyness constant since morning. Worries me.

 

13:15

 

In bed, OK, almost normal apart from slight palpitations, shakes, headache will try and close eyes and meditate.

 

Should work, should do things but no motivation plus scared stress will make me worse. Just trying to relax.

 

In limbo. What I have been through has been traumatic yet it is all inside not understood.

 

Meditations wasn't good. Should do guided one but since this experience no motivation to. Used to meditate a lot while on 40mg. But think maybe it is stupid. Meditating while on drugs. Might just make things worse, let the Prozac seep into deeper parts of the brain.

 

Like trying to meditate while drunk.don't know. Maybe the wrong way to look at it. Apple.

 

Will go for walk at some point.

 

14:00

 

OK, heat in head. 

 

16:00

 

Walked. tired. depression, don't like thinking of symptoms -makes me more depressed, can't do this everyday. Headache like hangover. Maybe better taking magnesium at night or stop. Packet of crisps, ice cream while walking.

 

Dinner: steak chibata and chips. Soda water lime.

 

16:20

 

Head feels pretty horrible after dinner, hard to describe. very depressed. Want to go to bed.

Don't notice the palpitations as much when walking and distracted. Suicidal thoughts, jealous of normal people.

 

17:10

 

Head sore, bit better after liquid but not enough. Walking around aimlessly.

 

Feelings change constantly. Sometimes I think I can fight and reduce dose eventually. Times like now I feel hopeless and think I need to go back up to 40mg. Up and down. Fight vs Can't Fight. Stuck in limbo.

 

Day Symptoms (no stressors/work):

Depression, suicidality, hopeless

Anxiety (better than it was, still not normal)

Sore head, hang over feeling (sometimes liquid helps, dehydration)

Palpitations

Shakes, inner shakiness

 

Don't know how I'll find a job, a woman, apartment, have some sort of happiness again. 

 

Waiting aimlessly. Need to go to gym again. Do drawing again. Want to go to bed but forcing myself outside. Not talking about things to parents etc. Just going through this alone right now pretty much. 

 

17:45

 

Shakiness, palpitations, legs feel funny when walk - hard to describe shaky. Weak, tired, burnt out.

 

18:00

Very hopeless. Anxiety. Want to go to bed but waiting for cinema.

 

18:15 after another ice cream, don't care. Feel awful.

 

Don't know how much of this I can take everyday. 

 

18:45 distracting myself with music. Thirsty. A little better.

 

19:00 watch film water

 

11pm felt good, distracted, felt normal and hopeful walking home

 

Missing ex wife, 4 years ago I cold turkeyed Prozac, we broke up everything went wrong, I didn't realize at the time I was going through withdrawal - as well as destroying my health it partly destroyed my marriage.

 

12pm fruit jelly. Felt normal, 

 

4am 6am cortisol awaking, chest pain. Not as bad as other nights.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Songbird
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[Songbird]

51 minutes ago, EdinburghGuy said:

Don't know to decrease or increase or hold Prozac - ultimately want to decrease but functioning and being normal is more important.

...

Fight vs Can't Fight. 

 

It looks to me that your symptoms are gradually improving.   That's a very good sign.  Your system is working towards stability.

 

I know it is very hard to not change dose because the human mind naturally wants to do something to solve the problem - to change something - increase or decrease dose because that's something we can control - because there's a problem and our minds desperately want to solve problems by taking action.  We need to remind ourselves that sometimes doing nothing IS doing something.  Changing nothing and keeping things as stable as possible is sometimes the best option.  Instead of "fighting", it's more conducive to recovery to accept the situation, let it be what it is, and work on developing a good non-drug toolkit of techniques to help you get through it.

 

Your thoughts seem to be in a somewhat negative pattern of ruminating, worrying and catastrophising.  Something to be aware of is that these ruminating thoughts are a withdrawal symptom!  There are some useful non-med techniques you can employ to help with these.

 

Mindfulness techniques can be helpful for dealing with ruminating thoughts.  With mindfulness, you are the observer in your mind and you just watch what is going on - kind of like you're a scientist studying some phenomenon.  The idea is that the observer is objective and does not get involved in the drama or pass any judgment on it.  Your goal is not to try to stop the thoughts from happening, but just let them happen without giving them any importance.  Watch the thoughts as if they are clouds floating by, or cars driving past.  Accept that the thoughts are there, but don’t attach any importance to them.

 

I’ve found it can help to give your internal negative voice a name (e.g. “doomcloud", “chatterbox", "monkey mind" or whatever name you want) so that you can separate this voice from your real self.  When you are able to perceive that this voice is not “you”, it becomes easier to step back from it, get some distance from it, and observe it more objectively.  Many years ago I named the negative voice in my mind the "Doomcloud”.  When the negative thoughts came, I could just observe it happening and say to myself  "oh, there's the Doomcloud again, doing its thing".  This helped immensely to step back from all the negative thoughts and emotions, to be less involved in them, and by getting some distance from them, they felt less intense and not nearly as upsetting or frightening. 

 

I've also found positive self-talk very helpful during difficult times.  Basically you just talk to yourself in a very positive way.  It can help to have some positive affirmations to repeat to yourself over and over.  At times when I've been waiting to stabilise I've said little phrases to myself over and over like a stuck record, .e.g "I am stabilising. It's going to be okay".  If I wake up with anxiety I repeat to myself over and over "I relax, and I let go.  I relax, and I let go.  I relax, and I let go".  It's best to use the present tense and use a positive statement (i.e. "I am relaxed", not "I don't have anxiety").  It's extremely simple and I have found it very effective. 

 

You might also find CBT techniques helpful for challenging negative thought patterns - see the Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns.  You might find this link useful:  https://positivepsychologyprogram.com/cognitive-distortions/

Here's a link to our CBT topic:  cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression and withdrawal symptoms

 

If you are not finding meditation helpful (it's not for everyone - to be honest, I am rubbish at it), you could try other forms of relaxation exercises, such as gentle yoga, progressive muscle relaxation, even just listening to relaxation music.  My favourite is David Swenson's "Just Relax" yoga video.  You could try a few things and see what works best for you.

 

 

 

 

[EdinburghGuy]

Thanks,  yeah need to get pro-active just very lost and angry right now. I have been fighting to be healthy etc. these last ten years and didnt realize the prozac was causing so much harm. Been climing the 'life mountain' and realized I've fallin into a deep dark pit filled with lava- a double climb. Just fed up. I would love to meditate, eat well and go to the gym etc. But prozac stops me losing weight - and the damn crappy drug was meant to help me lose weight, so thedr believes. Life is meant to be about the journey but so angry at this unnessery suffering ive cause by taking this crap and trusting drs.

 

Anyway, cant write diary everyday as it makes me ruminate too much, but hopefully i can get myself together soon. Think ill go to the cinema again to distract myself today, and have ice cream because im fat.

[EdinburghGuy]

Is there dietry advice in withdrall? Ive tried low carb in the past but had mpod swings etc. 

[mirage]

@Rosetta @Songbird I just read your responses here and you are both so great and positive. This is a tough journey. I am in a wave and have been since last Wednesday. I had a smidge of a window yesterday but, clearly over did it as we had 32 people over for the Fourth of July. I am suffering for it today with really extreme dizziness. However, I wouldn't have traded it. The day was wonderful. I have always been one to have the events at my house and I love to entertain and prepare food and to let people feel welcome and have a good time. I have not been able to do that since this began in June of 2017. It was really beautiful to watch the love and the laughter that was in my home all day yesterday. I love my little nieces and nephews flying inside and outside of the house and the excitement of the fireworks on their faces. God gave me a good day. 

 

One thing I noticed last night, I have a weird sensation when being in the dark. It is something with my eyesight. Hard to describe. I don't lose any sight and I don't have burred vision. It is odd and it causes the dizziness to be worse. Did either of you experience anything like this or do you know what is going on? 

[Lakelander82]

i am with you edinburgh, i am in as bad a situation as you. i catastrophically missed two days of sertraline at 12mg and ive been a mess ever since. i dont know what to do or where to turn to. 

[EdinburghGuy]

Yesterday not so bad. Just woke up 6am - horrible cortisol surge, can feel it so strongly, shaking etc. I know you say wait it out, but such high levels of cortisol everyday can't be good - risk of heart attack and diabetes esp. cortisol promotes (weight gain too, I am constantly hungry). In my family history of diabetes and heart attcks. If I could just lower it a big chunk of my problem could be solved.

 

 ashwagandha, rhodiola, phosphatidylserine

 taurine, dark chocolate 

 

Heard these could help, anyone have success lowering cortisol, how did they do it?

 

[EdinburghGuy]

My main problem at the begging all those years ago was tiredness, I was wrongly given thyroxine from dr, after that prozac. I probably just needed cbt/counciling and something to tackle cortisol/adrenal fatigue naturally, but went down this horrible spirral. 

 

Gonna try and research cortosol more, will try and update any findings etc. 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, EdinburghGuy said:

ashwagandha, rhodiola, phosphatidylserine

 taurine, dark chocolate 

 

I suggest you do a search for this.  There are many existing topics on this site and you can use the site search function or use a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org to your search term.

[EdinburghGuy]

Good window so far today apart from morning cortisol,  thanks you are maybe keeping me alive and saving me from effexor etc.

[Rosetta]

The cortisol spikes are horrible symptoms, but be careful what you use to counter them.  The body tends to push back against the anti-anxiety medications, of course, so those are out of the question.  I'm convinced that they make the problem worse.  

 

As for supplements, there are two that are safe enough for most people -magnesium and fish oil.  The trick is to try just a small amount of each at a time.  I think, although it's hard to tell for sure, that magnesium helps me with the cortisol problem.  There are times when I start to believe that nothing will stop them if the brain has just done a restructuring job that triggers them.  However, I keep taking the magnesium.  

 

When it comes to other supplements, some people seem to find certain ones that help.  Taking small amounts at first to see how they affect you and never taking more than one until you have tested the waters is the best course of action.  Good luck.

[EdinburghGuy]

Thanks, anxiety after some dark chocolate (maybe caffine in chocolate), frustrating. Anyway, pray we can get through this. Was a good window in the morning, hope I can get more like that.

 

All I can do is reearch now I guess, and rest.  Will listen to songbird and stay at 20mg for now. 

[EdinburghGuy]

Morning cortisol wasn't as intense today, but woke up very depressed. Wish I was on 10mg instead of 20mg, at least I would know more it is withdrall and not a condition, also have more hope I could quit eventually. 20mg is still a theraputic dose. But maybe prozac doesnt work like that, it all just builds up in your system? Does that make sense? You are like a bucket and you fill up, instead of filling up 20 at a time you fill up 10. Just takes longer.

 

I'm still trapped in this stuff. But guess I should be greatful it is not as bad as it was.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Hi EdinburghGuy, good signs that the morning cortisol wasnt as bad, your body sounds like its adjusting to the medication