Erell: struggling with paroxetine

[Erell]

On 11/18/2022 at 4:39 PM, mstimc said:

  And I hope you can take some strength knowing I and others who have recovered have been through what you're enduring.  Recovery is out there!

Oh yes, even though when you're in the middle of it you feel like it will never end or that your case is different or worse, it really helps to know that others have gone through it and are thriving!
I feed my thoughts with success stories and positive testimonials, I'm so grateful to have access to them. I can't describe how much these stories keep me going, I'm relieved that some people, including you, have taken the time to write them. ❤️ 

 

On 11/18/2022 at 6:35 AM, Sunflower414 said:

Hi @Erell, keep hanging on. I was in the depths of hell and felt like I was getting worse for about 2/2.5 years. After an 8 month hold, I am finally "stable". I just did a 1.5% drop and while it is early, I am still functioning.

That is a wonderful news, Sunflower414, I thank you for sharing it, and am really pleased for you. Enjoy this well-deserved respite! ❤️

 

On 11/17/2022 at 8:08 PM, arbor said:

Dear @Erell It truly is hell what we're going through.  Unbelievable, unimaginable, wracking torment.  I long for everyone to be free of this.  Thank you for sharing your journey.  I send you long distance hugs 🕊️

Arbor 💜

Thank you for your hugs Arbor, I appreciate it a lot. I offer you mine too. I do hope we will soon feel like the worse is behind us. ❤️

 

On 11/17/2022 at 3:41 AM, Hanna72 said:

Oh but yes I do understand. I have been there, the difference is I was not closely as strong as you. I gave up, could not do it out of terror and fear. I thought I was loosing my mind.

I had to move in with my parents ( and I am almost 50 years old) because the terror was so overwhelming. I could not go outside or stay alone, and I am a very independent person to begin with. So I do understand

Oh yes, I do understand. I used to be a very independant adult too, and now I live with my parents. I am sometimes sad about this situation, but I'm mostly grateful to have a roof, access to food and no financial pressure, that is a big privilege while feeling so little functionnal.
Thank you for your kind wishes Hanna72, I have the same for you and wish us some peace soon ❤️

 

 

[Rosetta]

Erell, 

 

I am so very sorry for what you are experiencing.  Of course, I have been there having CT’d myself.  It is unimaginable, and it is survivable!  I am proof!  You will be glad to be alive someday — so, so glad that you had the strength to get through.  You do have that strength.  You are going to feel normal again.  Please trust that.  The brain can reach that state of normal functioning again.  
 

There is a very hard period of time, as Brassmonkey says, that often happens around the 2-3 year mark.  You will turn a corner.  If only that were the end of it, but there there is a long climb to the point of being mostly healed.  It’s actually glorious, and you will revel in it at times.  The point is that this very hard part is not ahead of you, but you are in it, and that is positive because that means you are on your way to the corner.  

 

Day by day — that’s all you can do.  Think of nothing beyond just each day and how you can be more comfortable.  Hot showers and baths and heating pads were my tools for getting through.  Epsom salt baths, too.  I sat on warm concrete in the sun.  I watched TV to distract and read long novels.  I got caught up in those to take my mind off of my own misery.  Even a few minutes or an hour of distraction makes a difference.  I set my iPad up in the bathroom and watched movies or series while sitting in an Epsom salt bath.  It sounds so silly and frivolous, but it was literally a matter of survival to get some relief for my body and mind.

 

My heart goes out to you, dear Erell, 

Rosetta

 

[Erell]

Thank you so much Rosetta, I've read many times your message and I will treasure your words in my mind ❤️

 

I live in terror, I feel consumed by terror and my mind lives in a horror movie. I feel like I am constantly losing my touch with reality.

It's so strange to be back at this stage of extreme intensity. 
I look at my notes and see encouraging progress in May, June, July 2022. I mean, I was starting to watch movies and listen to music!
And since August, the downward spiral. As soon as it calms down a bit for an hour and I get my hopes up, I'm back in that state of pure physiological terror. 
Feels back in acute. And I feel restless, but also frozen by terror. So hard to describe. Everything is too much. People, light, sound.

I don't know if I'm in the awful storm before turning a corner. I do hope so. I'm hanging to this idea.
I found a testimony of someone who went through an acute wave during three months before getting significantly better. I read it all day long. 

I'm repeating myself, but that's all I know how to do, if you come across this type of testimony, I'd love to read it, it helps me so much to hold on and to try to normalise what's happening.

[getofflex]

@ErellI've been praying for you every day, and thinking about you and sending positive thoughts your way.  Please hang on and don't give up!  You will get through this, and someday, will be so very glad that you persisted!  I'm glad you get an hour here or there where your system calms down.  I will continue to pray.  

Edited November 27, 2022 by getofflex

[Erell]

Thank you getofflex. i appreciate your support.
 

I don't know how to cope with this wave. Every day brings a new symptom. Urgent need to escape my body, my head, feels like I'm gonna explode.

I've been playing detective since September, I can't think of a reason, except that I probably shouldn't touch prozac anymore, that maybe I'm on a huge wave of paxil. I don't know, I'm back in acute. I would like to be positive, but now I'm going to explode, everything is burning and screaming. Mental torture.

Back two years ago. In the worse of it.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Erell

[getofflex]

Oh Erell.  When I was like this I did simple easy physical things to distract myself from the pain.  Knitting sewing crafts adult coloring books etc.   I’m praying!

[Catina7]

I'm so sorry for what you're enduring Erell.  We're all rooting for you!  I hope you can continue to hold on and just think about getting through one day at a time.  Your brain is just having a temporary "short circuit," for lack of a better term.  I'm sure it will resolve.  Keep fighting the fine fight and you WILL beat this thing!  Sending positive thoughts your way and a big cyber HUG!

[wantrelief]

Dearest @Erell:  I am so very sorry for everything you are going through.  I know you are going to get to the other side of this......I am just really sorry you are having to go through it.  I wish there was something more I could do.  I am thinking of you, as always, and sending you lots of love, my brave friend.  

[arbor]

Sending you hugs, dear @Erell🕊️

[mstimc]

My dear Erell.  I wish I could share some of my positive thoughts with you in a more substantial way, but please know you will get through this. You have been so strong and of so much help to others here, save some of that strength for yourself.  Thinking of you!

[Oaktree1]

On 11/27/2022 at 10:29 AM, Erell said:

I live in terror, I feel consumed by terror and my mind lives in a horror movie. I feel like I am constantly losing my touch with reality.

Hi Erell,

 

 

As a lurker on your thread, I hope that you will come out of this wave soon.  i hope you can take heart from the other posters who have come through bad waves and come out the other side.  I wish you peace and hope you come out of it soon. 

 

If I am feeling highly anxious I just try and distract myself as best I can - that means reading loads and loads of rubbish on Quora and other online media - anything at all.  If I am feeling really bad I do this.  I also distract by TV - The White Lotus (the second series) I really love that series - it is set in Sicily this time.  I can forget how awful things can be by looking at it.  I understand feeling consumed by terror and the horror movie in your brain.   I try and laugh at it and laugh at life too and all the absurdity of it.  If you were losing touch with reality you wouldn't notice that you were I think ...I once lost total contact with reality and didn't realise it.  The fact that you feel that you are is perhaps you very heightened state of fear at present.  People who feel like they're going 'mad' are generally not the ones going 'mad' if that makes sense.  Sorry for the babbling...I hope you get a window soon.

 

Oaktree1 

 

[Onmyway]

Dear @Erell

I'm so sorry you are suffering so much. It can be so discouraging when symptoms return after stabilization and when we are doing everything right. It's even more frustrating when we don't know how to fix it or know what it is to avoid it in the future.

 

One thing I know is that this will pass and you will feel better again. This horrible beast seems to relax for me most when I stop fighting it but accept it and ignore it as much as I can through distraction. At my worst I went minute by minute, surrendered and distracted as much as I could. 

 

Another thing I know is that this is a sign of healing, this is our body telling us that it's working hard to find its balance again. Breathe in healing, breathe out withdrawal.

 

I'm sure you know all of the techniques anyway and what works for you. People have given you some tips. In the worst of it, the only thing that worked for me was to just silently bear it and breathe until it changed. Breathe and float.

 

Know that you are loved here and that many of us are holding you in our thoughts and hoping for ease to find you soon.

 

Sending you peace,

OMW

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Onmyway

[Erell]

❤️

[gentlehermione]

Dear @Erell

 

I'm so sorry to hear your suffering is so intense 😧 As others have said previously distraction is key. Anything that will take your mind off your symptoms will help you to move forward.

 

My mantra during my most difficult phases of WD was "This too shall pass." (Think I stole it from Baylissa 😉) Just saying it seemed to give me the strength I needed to persevere.

 

Thinking of you and sending you healing thoughts 🥰

[cathnz]

On 11/29/2022 at 8:01 PM, Erell said:

❤️

@Erell did you meet with Baylissa? 

[Heath]

@Erell Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way! 👍

[Erell]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:21 PM, brassmonkey said:

Hi Erell -- I'm so sorry to hear that you are having such a bad wave. Please don't despair, it will get better. The incident with the prozac getting too warm probably isn't helping but is only a minor factor. The whole thing goes back to the original prozac bridge. This essentially was a CT of the paxil and that CT has to run its course while the other drugs try to coverup the symptoms. Recovering from a paxil CT is a long affair. From your signature you are two and a half years into it. From what I have seen years two and a half to three and a half are the roughest for a paxil CT. For many there is a breaking point right around the three-year mark after which things start to get noticeably better. I really hate putting a time lie on it, but this is what I have seen. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it is not the Eurostar coming at you. Right now, you are getting hit with a very bad wave. It will run its course and subside. 

 

((((((((((MONKEY HUGS)))))))))))))

 

Hello Brassmonkey, 

I'm sorry to ask, I know that SA is not the place to deal with a crisis, but I'm in such a bad state (October worse than September, November worse than October, more symptoms, greater intensity, feels back in acute) and trying to deal with a family that is convinced that I should stop Prozac immediatly (I won't do that, I know it is a very bad idea) that I need to ask: do you think, like in September, it could still be just a wave from Paxil CT? Like the kind of acute wave the legend talks about just before you get better, even though mine lasts over three months and seems to get worse with each week? Does it seem that my body is rebelling against the prozac or is it more likely that my improvement in the spring/summer2022 is a sign that my body can stabilise but is currently going through an the most intense wave due to stopping paxil, no matter how long?

 

 

 

 

On 12/2/2022 at 7:37 PM, cathnz said:

@Erell did you meet with Baylissa? 

Yes I did, It was good to be able to talk to someone who understands and recognises these conditions. She is very nice.

 

 

 

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers, I read your support everyday. I am unable to contribute anything except my restlessness and terror recently, I never thought I would plunge back so quickly into the worst that this ordeal has to offer, and I often wonder how to cope in this recent storm, but I hope to return all that I owe you soon, and can't thank you enough for your trust that things can get better ❤️

 

 

 

 

 

[Phoenixmama]

sending you (((((((HUGS))))))🌺❤️🙏🌞 @Erell

[wantrelief]

3 hours ago, Erell said:

I never thought I would plunge back so quickly into the worst that this ordeal has to offer, and I often wonder how to cope in this recent storm

I am so so sorry you are in this terrible state.  You wrote you wonder how you will cope but you are coping, brave Erell, even if it doesn't feel like it - you are by just getting through however you can.

 

I am sending you lots of love and hugs,

WR

[brassmonkey]

Hi Erell-- I'm so sorry to hear that things are still going badly. I sent you a PM to talk about it.

 

((((((((((MONKEY HUGS))))))))))

[cathnz]

5 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Erell-- I'm so sorry to hear that things are still going badly. I sent you a PM to talk about it.

 

((((((((((MONKEY HUGS))))))))))

I'm really interested to hear your advice to Erell @brassmonkey as I am following Erells thread closely as it mirrors mine. 

[Phoenixmama]

@cathnz I am too in the same boat as you and Erell ❤️

[Oaktree1]

Hi Erell,

 

Deeply sorry to hear you are in such a distressed state for the past while.  I am deeply sorry.  Not trying to make it all about me but I can relate to this feeling even though everyone's life circumstances are different - I am last night in a similar state of terror to you (had more bad health news a few days ago). 

 

  I had a quick look at your bio - you are a mere baby at 31 years of age I think.  That is a big compliment in case it comes across as insulting.  I would love to be 31 years of age again and have a functioning physical body.  You have a huge amount of life left to you when you come through this period - a huge amount of time to enjoy and be at peace.   When I was cold turkeyed off drugs in my twenties it took a while but eventually I returned to baseline peace state and there were windows and lots of waves during that period but I got to a point of calmness - nature helped a lot.  It is great that BrassMonkey is giving you some help and that you had some advice from Baylissa.  

 

I hope that things will improve soon for you.

 

Oaktree1

 

 

[Greatful]

@Erell My heart goes out to you my dear.  I live in a state of terror and fear in my brain too.  It's like our  brains are hijacked and we have no control of it....Just fear fear fear.   It breaks my heart to hear your pain and terror in you voice, it so reminds me of me.  Please know that there are many here that hurt for you and along side of you.  I know the advice is all the same and you have heard it a million times it seems like, but please dig down a little deeper and hold on.

 

Sending you a big hug🤗 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Erell

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this and it feels so awful right now. 

 

I am going to go into problem solving mode and try to see if we can get you feeling better. 

In the last couple of months has anything changed in your circumstances? Have you changed things with your diet? Alcohol? Caffeine? Pot? I am trying to see if there could be a source for this even though we know that there isn't always. 

 

What are your current symptoms? How are you managing them? What is working to alleviate any of your symptoms? Can you start keeping daily (hourly) notes so we can see if/when your symptoms change.  

 

OMW

[Longroadhome]

(((((( @Erell))))))) holding you tight. I wish I could be sat beside you holding your hand, like I would if you were my daughter and letting you know everything’s going to work out in the end xx it will, just hang in there xx

[brassmonkey]

I was using the PM to give Erell a more personal reassurance that the wave she is experiencing ATM is quite typical for people who have CTed from most drugs. Going CT is the toughest way to get off of these medications. It can be a long torturous journey that displays many rounds of extreme symptoms and waves. Although the symptoms can be extreme at times they will subside, and improvements will be seen. It may not seem like it at the time, but things will get better, just maybe not as fast as one would like. I pointed out that Coldturkmama is a very good example of the timeline that a CT will follow. She had a very rough time of it but is well on the road to recovery. Acceptance, staying strong and working one's way through it one step at a time are the keys.

[Phoenixmama]

@brassmonkey can this go for ct from 3 weeks of celexa also ? Because I’m going through the same thing ♥️

[Erell]

Thank you for your support, I'm not responding much at the moment because I'm going from one emotion to another from one minute to the next, but I appreciate it very much and hope to communicate my support soon. 🌼

 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, Onmyway said:

I am going to go into problem solving mode and try to see if we can get you feeling better. 

In the last couple of months has anything changed in your circumstances? Have you changed things with your diet? Alcohol? Caffeine? Pot? I am trying to see if there could be a source for this even though we know that there isn't always. 

 

What are your current symptoms? How are you managing them? What is working to alleviate any of your symptoms? Can you start keeping daily (hourly) notes so we can see if/when your symptoms change.  

Thank you for your offer, it is very generous. I'm a bit worried about wasting your time by posting my dailynotes since Brassmonkey shared his hypothesis that I'm just going through a wave, maybe a lognue and particularly intense, but only a wave, so I'll post the last two days, but feel free to ignore them if you don't think it's relevant. Hope you're doing ok on your side🙏

 

So: no change in routine or circumstances, no alcohol (haven't had a drop of alcohol in several years, and I make sure I don't ingest any food that contains it... only the ethanol in my liquid valium from the pharmacy remains), no caffeine (stopped caffeine at the time of my taper from benzos in 2014), no pot (is pot cannabis? Tried once when I was teenager, did not like how it made me feel, never did it again), no new supplements, no change in diet…
 

No matter how hard I look, I can't find anything... except the obligation to accept and let go of the idea that I can do something... 🙃

Strangely, while I have suffered from intense diarrhoea since my prozac bridge, I became constipated overnight in early September, at the start of this horrible wave. I don't know what my body is doing, but I imagine it's making a lot of adjustments, unfortunately this process is beyond words.

Ok, dailynotes (I drink a bottle of water with magnesium citrate during the day) : 

Wednesday December 7

4am. woke up with a nightmare, adrenaline + feeling that there is too much noise and too loud in my brain. Try to surrender to the fear and focus on the touch of my cat.
7am. eat breakfast, then go back in my bed and try to find hope and make a gratitude list.
8am. 6.16mg prozac + 1 fish oil capsule

I spend the morning trying to keep myself busy (jigsaw puzzle, a bit of tidying up...), I'm restless, mentally and physically, with cold rises of terror and hot rises of adrenaline, very shaky, intrusive thoughts. Want to scream.
Noon. Feel slightly more calm. Eat and talk with parents. At the end of the meal, feel very dizzy + rough terror rush. Can't sit still.
I to use my hands (folding clothes to stay in the moment).
2.30 pm. Feel a bit better, decide to take a walk outside, around 20 minutes. Despite going slow, feels like it stimulates me and I feel even more agitated after + feel breathless.
3.30 pm. Big surges of "physical" irritation, like an energy that has to come out. I panic because of violent intrusive thoughts and and I burst into tears. I cry for a long time, walking in circles in my room.

5pm. A little calmer, I'm trying to get back to my online courses. But I find it hard to look at my screen. And I feel like I can't understand the words I'm reading.I give up and spend time with my cat, I try to keep myself afloat by talking positively to myself.

6pm. Huge intrusive thoughts and impulses. The feeling of imminence terrorises me, I can't get rid of it. I reread the success stories that calm me down. 

7pm. 0.85mg diazepam
7.30pm. Still terrorised by intrusive thoughts, but I make the effort to eat with my parents. Hard. All I want is to jump in their arm and hug them, or to scream. Can't eat, don't manage to swallow, feels like I feel like I'm going to swallow the wrong way, that my body doesn't know how to swallow spontaneously anymore.
8pm. Go into bed, start evening routine, listen to relaxation, try to find some gratitude for the day (I have a roof and food). Intense ear pain, during 30 min, that disappear as soon as it came.
11pm. Sudden exhaustion, fall asleep after some jerks and graps for air.

Thursday December 8

2.30am. Woke up in a huge adrenaline rush, soaked in sweat, very hot. Go in the bathroom, don't recognize myself in the mirror.
I hug myself and try to reassure myself. + intense tooth pain which disappears after 1 hour, as suddenly as it came.
Until 6.30am, stay in bed, try to comfort myself, cry. Physical anxiety/tension is so strong it hurts + legs are very stiff but can't relax them.
6.30am. eat breakfast. Go back in bed.
8.15am 6.16mg prozac + 1 fish oil capsule. Want to take a shower, but for some reason it terrify me, so Iso I'm putting it off until tomorrow.

9am. Try to work on screen but my head is going to explode because it's so tight in a vice, I feel like someone is squeezing my skull and brain, + I feel like my neck can't hold my head + I feel like my arms and hands on the keyboard aren't mine. And the tension that hurts, my stomach is tight. I burst into tears from mental exhaustion and roll into a ball in bed. I let it out.

11am. Feels slighty calmer after crying, but still very full of adrenaline and tension. I want to thank my parents for supporting me so I go in the kitchen and try to participate.
Noon. Hard to eat, my body is so tense. I can't stop biting my tongue because my jaw is so tight

1pm. There is sun, I go out to take some vitamin D and I walk with my mum, around 20-30 min. I feel out of breath all the time, even if I go slowly, but I force myself, I want to get some sun and smell the air.

2pm. Feel exhausted, but this exhaustion feels good, stay on the couch. After about 30 minutes, feels huges surge of imminence of doom, strong intrusive thoughts, I visualise a car accident and feels like it's real (never had one) + feel that the inside of my brain is exploding. I go to hide in my room. 

Afternoon: read success stories over and over. Very agitated mentally, racing thoughts, internal physical unease, like a need to explode.
6pm. Manage to take a shower. After, feels stimulated by it, agitated;, but also feel slike I'm about to faint. Neck burns. Feels electric in my brain and veins.

7pm. 0.85mg diazepam

7.30pm Eat with parents, but it's hard, so much violent intrusive thoughts and feelings of imminence, feels like loosing touch with reality, whereas all I want is to hug them.

8pm. go to hide in bed and start bedtime routine. Brain burns + feels like something push on my head, feels breathless.

midnight. Sudden exhaustion, fell asleep. Woke many times with painful cramps in my knees + restless legs and need to jump out of my body.


Okay, I won't manage to write more today, I can't think more, will stop here. Take care

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Erell

[Sebas]

2 hours ago, Erell said:

Strangely, while I have suffered from intense diarrhoea since my prozac bridge, I became constipated overnight in early September, at the start of this horrible wave.

Erell and of course OMW, good thing you got into problem solving mode!

Please allow me to be of some assistance.

 

This "sudden" constipation is a big clue that there was a trigger earlier that day. This has likely been the trigger causing the big wave from last months. You said you've been using ethanol. Did you use it right before sept 4th? Ethanol and alcohol are practically the same, as well as glycerin.

 

2 hours ago, Erell said:

6pm. Manage to take a shower. After, feels stimulated by it, agitated;, but also feel slike I'm about to faint. Neck burns. Feels electric in my brain and veins.

 

Be aware of the shampoo/body oils that your using. Some shampoos contain alcohol, vitamines, as well as other chemicals. When you have become oversensitive then these ingredients can be triggering as well, even when just applied to the skin or hair. Not to scare you, just to help and create awareness.

I've recently switched to a very neutral sensitive shampoo after sudden waves after swimming (and showering).

 

Protracted withdrawal may be the first and main reason for the process you're in, but triggers are what 9/10 cause these "sudden" bad waves. Suddenly not recognizing yourself in mirror, sudden dhiarrea, sudden abnormal dizziness, those things are always a direct indication there has been a negative trigger. It's a good thing you're keeping a daily journal.

 

We are all here to help and we're in this together.

Your doing very well, relaxing, taking outdoor walks and riding these fierce waves. You will eventually become your own succes story.

 

Rappelles toi; les moments les plus difficiles mènent souvent aux plus beaux moments de nos vies.

 

A bientot,

Sebas

 

 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Erell,

what you're describing sounds horrendous. I am so sorry you are going through it. This can very well be a wave but I wonder some symptomatic treatment may help. 

 

Would it be possible to take a baby aspirin - or if you don't have a baby aspirin split a large pill into roughly 50mg - no need to be precise. Aspirin or slow release vitamin C can help combat the surge of cortisol that you are feeling in the morning. Try taking it at bedtime and see if it helps. If it doesn't you can just stop this one, no need to taper. 

 

I would add a probiotic if you are having issues with your gut as well. It may help. Try eating things like oatmeal, yoghurt etc. Good gut bacteria can help our brain as well. 

 

Can you try a magnesium sulfate [epsom salt] bath (or footbath if a bath is not available). It might help with the muscle tension/agitation.

 

Continue to do things that are distracting - can you play cards/board games - things that will take your attention without requiring that you perform well. Don't force yourself to be positive, just focus on getting through each moment. This is temporary. This will pass. 

 

Hug your parents if they don't mind - physical contact does regulate our moods and our bodies. Hug pets. Cuddle. All of that helps. 

 

Try calming music (if it helps) - at times the only thing that helps me fall asleep is listening to lectures. I found this one guy (please don't laugh) who is a religious scholar. I have no interest in his lectures and he is quite controversial so not recommending his views or anything but his voice puts me to sleep immediately.

 

The person in this post describes a principle of relieving symptoms - basically distract your nervous system with extreme sensations - hot, cold etc. See if you can apply any of these. She describes what she did in some detail for various symptoms. 

 

 

I suspect that your setback in September was a result of your diazepam dose lowering in August - Diazepam has a long half life so you didn't feel the effect very soon. I am not suggesting an updose. Updosing will likely confuse your nervous system more but it may explain things. Even though we can't point out the reasons for waves, this seems like a likely explanation in this case. You may need to go much slower in your tapering than the 10%. I can barely manage 5% a month without major symptoms. 

 

This will pass - this is just a very scary time but it is temporary. You are lucky to have supportive parents but please don't feel you need to force yourself to do things to show your gratitude - you don't need extra stress. They seem happy to help. Use the acknowledge, accept, float (Claire Weekes) to power through this.

 

I don't know which one will work, try them one at a time and hopefully they will bring some relief! 

 

Keep us updated and know that so many of us are cheering for you here. 

OMW

 

(And pls don't feel bad about my time - I will let you know if I ever can't help :). Right now I am happy to make suggestions that might help.) 

[Erell]

11 hours ago, Sebas said:

You said you've been using ethanol. Did you use it right before sept 4th? Ethanol and alcohol are practically the same, as well as glycerin.

Hello Sebas, Thanj you for your support.
Sorry if this was confusing: ethanol is present in all benzodiazepines oral suspensions sold in pharmacies, including mine. This is not a change: my diazepam formula has been the same since the beginning.

 

11 hours ago, Sebas said:

I've recently switched to a very neutral sensitive shampoo after sudden waves after swimming (and showering).

Yes, I also use a very neutral shampoo/shower gel, without perfume. I use the same since two years now.
 

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Would it be possible to take a baby aspirin - or if you don't have a baby aspirin split a large pill into roughly 50mg - no need to be precise. Aspirin or slow release vitamin C can help combat the surge of cortisol that you are feeling in the morning. Try taking it at bedtime and see if it helps. If it doesn't you can just stop this one, no need to taper. 

 

I would add a probiotic if you are having issues with your gut as well. It may help. Try eating things like oatmeal, yoghurt etc. Good gut bacteria can help our brain as well. 

 

Can you try a magnesium sulfate [epsom salt] bath (or footbath if a bath is not available). It might help with the muscle tension/agitation.

Hello Onmyway, Thank you for your support.

I am thinking of vitamin C, probiotics, and vitamin D. I find it hard to think about introducing new things, I'm in such a state that the idea of making things worse is hard to bear. This sudden change in intestinal transit leads me to consider probiotics more seriously. I'm reading articles to try to understand which ones to choose, but I must admit that I don't understand much.

I am introducing prunes to help my body because the constipation is becoming challenging.

 

I have also considered epsom salt baths, but for some reason, water terrifies me in this wave, like in the acute beginning, and I have issues to wash myself or to plunge myself into water. I didn't think about footbath, that sounds easier, thank you for mentioning it!

 

In any case, I am very privileged: not only am I very lucky to have parents who are willing to provide food and a roof to me, but I am also lucky that they cook everything they eat and only buy organic produce, so even when I am unable to cook for myself, I have access to very healthy, diversified home-cooked food.

 

Someone once asked me if I could bear to live with those who gave me drugs when I was a teenager. Of course, there was a time when I felt very angry, but today I consider my parents to be victims too: they believed the doctors and are now shocked by everything they read when I presented them with articles, testimonies and Mark Horowitz' research. 

Anyway, I digress, in any case I am privileged in the sense that I have a home, food and parents who, even if they find it hard to envisage that withdrawal could put me in this state and probably still wonder if I have a "mental illness", show willingness in their desire to support me as they can and to respect my choices, which is all I ask. And honestly, without them, I would be homeless now.

 

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Try calming music (if it helps) - at times the only thing that helps me fall asleep is listening to lectures. I found this one guy (please don't laugh) who is a religious scholar. I have no interest in his lectures and he is quite controversial so not recommending his views or anything but his voice puts me to sleep immediately.

I would certainly not laugh, I perfectly understand  Some evenings I can listen to ASMR, and it seems to help my nervous system to calm down. But sometimes it is just too much, I can't bear all the sounds. In fact, I pick and choose from my tools and ideas and do what is tolerable for my body at the time, it can change from one day to another or from one hour ton another. The main thing these days for me is to get through the next hour, so I improvise...

And yes, my cat is definitely one of these tools

 

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I suspect that your setback in September was a result of your diazepam dose lowering in August - Diazepam has a long half life so you didn't feel the effect very soon. I am not suggesting an updose. Updosing will likely confuse your nervous system more but it may explain things. Even though we can't point out the reasons for waves, this seems like a likely explanation in this case. You may need to go much slower in your tapering than the 10%. I can barely manage 5% a month without major symptoms. 

Yes, I know this is a possibility. My prozac bridge went so badly since the start, part of me clung to the idea that by eliminating drugs, I would naturally get better. part of me clung to the idea that by eliminating drugs, I would naturally get better. The idea of an adverse reaction was a bit "comforting", in the sense that I could do something to get better. 

At the moment, any change seems impossible to envisage, so I plan to hold on for a long time, several months, perhaps years depending on how things evolve.

The idea of suffering prolonged and severe pain "just" from my paxil ct is terrifying because there's nothing I can do but wait and do my best to hold on, but the fact that Brassmonkey makes the assumption that I'm just suffering from a wave that has to run its course, without necessarily having a reason for it, helps me because it's hard to spend time trying to figure out what you're doing wrong in your day-to-day life and wondering if we're causing it when we're doing our best to do everything right.

 

It's just really hard because I thought the worst was possibly behind me, and I'm back in the thick of it, not knowing when the respite will start.

I found a person, on SA, named imac, who went through a horrible wave, back to acute for three months, and suddenly turned a corner at 36 months. 
So these terrible late "actue like" waves seem to be a reality for some people. I wish I wasn't one of those people, but I guess I have no choice but to continue my learning of acceptance and patience at the withdrawal university…

 

Ok, as soon as Im able to spend some time on the screen and to write, I seem to write way too much, so I'll stop here.
 

Thank you all for your support. Can't wait to post here with a big "POSITIVE UPDATE" as a title ☀️

 

[Hanna72]

Dear @Erell

Been reading your thread and like all of us in here, rooting for you and waiting for the storm you are in the midst of to calm down 🙏

I feel your pain and I am so sorry to hear of your continuing suffering.

 

I wanted to write to you because there have been so many similarities with both our symptoms. If it is any comfort to you to know that, and knowing you are not alone.

I want to mention this; 

18 hours ago, Erell said:

Can't eat, don't manage to swallow, feels like I feel like I'm going to swallow the wrong way, that my body doesn't know how to swallow spontaneously anymore

This I know very well, it’s scary and so bizarre. For me this has subsided a lot, but I do get it occasionally only when drinking soups or liquids.

This I have read is and can be caused by the use of antidepressants, and is talked about as a side affect. I personally think it’s our bodies trying to fix the long term Paxil use. As for me it is getting better.

18 hours ago, Erell said:

. I can't stop biting my tongue because my jaw is so tight

As I have mentioned on my thread, I at one point could not open my mouth. My jaw was so tight and I was diagnosed with tmj disorder. This I have read is and could be …again caused by antidepressants. It has taken almost a year for this to subside for me. 

Another thing I recognise is the fear of taking showers. 

 

The reason why I wanted to address this to you is so you know this is not some “mental illness”  This is real and if people haven’t walked in your shoes, at least you know that you have not experienced this alone.  If that makes any sense 

And if it got better for me, there is absolutely no reason why it won’t get better for you🥰

You are in my thoughts, sending you strength and hope

Big hugs to you, and I know you will get better Erell!!!❤️

[Oaktree1]

Hi Erell,

 

Just wanted to chime in with Hanna72 on the symptoms you are experiencing.  My jaw is so tight that I have to wear a mouth guard every night and if I don't I am not able at times to chew food.

 

I can also empathise re the showering.  I have not taken a shower in over a year.  I had to give it up due to the eczema but also had similar feelings to you.  I am thankful for your nation's invention - the bidet - where I wash essentials daily and I force myself to take a bath once a week.  Don't enjoy it but make myself do it and it is much less stressful than taking a shower if you just take a smallish one.  Otherwise I use micellar water to clean my upper body and the bidet takes care of the rest and my feet.  Epsom salts footbath with a bidet is quite calming if you have one.  It obviates the need for 'plunging oneself in water' anyway.  Posting so you can see that you are not alone in your symptoms anyway.

 

The good thing is that your parents are supporting you and listening you to during this process.

 

Oaktree1

[Onmyway]

Hi @Erell

It very well can be just a wave but trying symptom alleviation may still help.

 

I'd stay off vitamin D as it can be agitating - it's a neurohormone. Vitamin C should be ok. Aspirin lowers cortisol in some studies and in general antiinflammatories seem to improve emotional pain as well so a small dose might be ok but it does have risks on our situation so I understand if you're cautious about it.

 

I read a bit more about your case and realize that you cut your dose bc you were worried about a new batch of medicine. If it was a different producer than the one that you had previously it may very well have been different bioavailability (impact on your body) - either up or down. It's legally allowed. It's possible that you had a less potent (rather than more potent) new batch so the real cut was bigger than what you thought you cut. But if it was the same producer then that would not explain things. I'd suggest staying with the same producer - you can request at the pharmacy. For example if Bexal produces your current liquid, stick to Bexal liquid in the future as well. 

 

Hope you are starting to feel better and a good decision not to change things for a good few months.

OMW

 

[Erell]

Thank you Hanna72 and Oaktree1 for sharing your experience. 

I don't think I have a "mental illness", what I'm experiencing is so beyond anything that I have no doubt it's drug related chemical chaos.

I'm sorry you have to endure these symptoms and the intensity that comes with them. The challenge they present on a daily basis is inexplicable to those who do not experience them. ❤️

Although I live in bidet nation, I don't own one, but I often use the glove and water tap method to avoid the shower

I know I'm very lucky that I don't feel threatened by those around me, even though my mind always fears that this will change. I am sorry that this is not the case for everyone and understand how much more strength it takes to save oneself. ❤️

 

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I read a bit more about your case and realize that you cut your dose bc you were worried about a new batch of medicine. If it was a different producer than the one that you had previously it may very well have been different bioavailability (impact on your body) - either up or down. It's legally allowed. It's possible that you had a less potent (rather than more potent) new batch so the real cut was bigger than what you thought you cut. But if it was the same producer then that would not explain things. I'd suggest staying with the same producer - you can request at the pharmacy. For example if Bexal produces your current liquid, stick to Bexal liquid in the future as well. 

It was the same producer. Unfortunately, this will no longer be the case for my next bottle: the laboratory stops marketing liquid diazepam and a new laboratory takes over production and marketing. I contacted them, they say they will keep the same formula.
We'll see, anyway I have no choice, and there's not much I can do but take things one day at a time at the moment, I'm at the worst of what I know of withdrawal and at a breaking point. I've booked a new appointment with Baylissa because I feel like I can't take it anymore.