rachie Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 I'm secretly hoping that you will run a small weekly zoom support group for a handful of us that are doing the ACA/trauma work while being in the middle of this lengthly psych drug withdrawal/recovery. I've been doing it with a 12 step trauma group for a year now and while very helpful I am the only one in this withdrawal. Would love to use some of the same principals to help get through this with others who understand. For pay of course through your coaching. Just planting a seed. Or if you know of any weekly groups for the w/d I would be interested💛 1 Paxil 2000 - 2002 Tried unsuccessfully to discontinue 2002 - 2010 A series of trial and error, Wellbutrin, Effexor and unsuccessful attempts to discontinue. 2010 - 2017 Lexapro With several unsuccessful attempts to withdraw 2012 - 2017 Lamictal Successfully withdrew Lamictal no problem 2017 - 2020 Switched to 40mg. Prozac to prepare try another Withdrawal. 2020 - On 15mg Remeron for a few months during withdrawal Completely off of Antidepressants since Sept. 2020 Klonipin as needed throughout the process. .25 mostly, some .5, some .125, 2 to 12 times per mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 17, 2022 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17, 2022 On 5/4/2022 at 4:27 PM, rachie said: I'm secretly hoping that you will run a small weekly zoom support group for a handful of us that are doing the ACA/trauma work while being in the middle of this lengthly psych drug withdrawal/recovery @rachie I appreciate you making your "secret hope" not so secret! I have a few ideas, but I'd be curious to hear more from you about what you are envisioning this might look like. Please feel free to reach out directly if you're open talking a bit more in-depth about this. Thanks! My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousnootropics Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 How are you now my friend? Zoloft, November 2019. I worked up to 50 mg and stayed there until 1 year later. I tapered for 3 months, which should consider to be cold turkey. Tapering schedule: Month 1: 37.5 mg Month 2: 25 mg Month 3: 12.5 mg Month 4(Half the month): 6.75 mg Month 4(Other half): 0 mg December 9, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachie Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 I am still cycling up and down but actually doing better overall. Just understanding and trying to except that the body is going to take a long time to heal and I need to do my best to keep my words and attitude in check. I have a great therapist helping me through this. Thank you for asking. And how is it going for you? Paxil 2000 - 2002 Tried unsuccessfully to discontinue 2002 - 2010 A series of trial and error, Wellbutrin, Effexor and unsuccessful attempts to discontinue. 2010 - 2017 Lexapro With several unsuccessful attempts to withdraw 2012 - 2017 Lamictal Successfully withdrew Lamictal no problem 2017 - 2020 Switched to 40mg. Prozac to prepare try another Withdrawal. 2020 - On 15mg Remeron for a few months during withdrawal Completely off of Antidepressants since Sept. 2020 Klonipin as needed throughout the process. .25 mostly, some .5, some .125, 2 to 12 times per mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousnootropics Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, rachie said: I am still cycling up and down but actually doing better overall. Just understanding and trying to except that the body is going to take a long time to heal and I need to do my best to keep my words and attitude in check. I have a great therapist helping me through this. Thank you for asking. And how is it going for you? I'm in a very bad shape 17 months off. I started weight training about 2 weeks ago and I think it increased my withdrawal 10x.. think my nervous system did not like this. Damn this journey is so hard. Zoloft, November 2019. I worked up to 50 mg and stayed there until 1 year later. I tapered for 3 months, which should consider to be cold turkey. Tapering schedule: Month 1: 37.5 mg Month 2: 25 mg Month 3: 12.5 mg Month 4(Half the month): 6.75 mg Month 4(Other half): 0 mg December 9, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachie Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 It is. I am at 20 months off and still I am blown away by how messed up my system is and how much worse it gets with added stress or exercise. I walk, ride my bike some. I used to be really active in fitness. I've tried running again on and off but it usually sends me into a terrible wave. I actually ran two really short amounts this week for the first time in a long time and was able to tolerate it but the exercise intensifying things is real From my experience. I also cannot Tolerate heat very well and that comes with exercise. I do yin yoga Just to try to calm my nervous system. Paxil 2000 - 2002 Tried unsuccessfully to discontinue 2002 - 2010 A series of trial and error, Wellbutrin, Effexor and unsuccessful attempts to discontinue. 2010 - 2017 Lexapro With several unsuccessful attempts to withdraw 2012 - 2017 Lamictal Successfully withdrew Lamictal no problem 2017 - 2020 Switched to 40mg. Prozac to prepare try another Withdrawal. 2020 - On 15mg Remeron for a few months during withdrawal Completely off of Antidepressants since Sept. 2020 Klonipin as needed throughout the process. .25 mostly, some .5, some .125, 2 to 12 times per mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted April 28, 2023 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 28, 2023 April 28, 2023 . . . 4 years of being completely drug-free! Detoxing from psych meds was one of the most brutal experiences of my life. And I have zero regrets now that I'm living on the other side in freedom. I'm grateful to have survived. In short, I'm doing really well! There are ups, and there are downs, but that's what it means to be human. And the challenges I face today are nothing compared to the day-to-day suffering I experienced while going through withdrawal, and my intensive inner healing process. Today (coincidently?) is also the last day of classes for the MSW degree I've been working on over the last three years. I'm graduating -- taking the next steps in my career, helping others in stuck places find their way out, too. Go gently. 7 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachie Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Always inspired hearing your story. I have had many steps forward with a long slowwwww healing process and then some waves that undo me. It has been about 2.5 years for me off the AD and it's still a struggle a lot of the time BUT it is moving in a forward healing direction. I do keep picking myself back up (after I let myself meltdown!!!) and carrying on often when I think I can't do this any longer. Thank you for being a healing light. I still don't feel like I have anything to offer but maybe one day I can be a voice of encouragement. Blessings!!! 2 Paxil 2000 - 2002 Tried unsuccessfully to discontinue 2002 - 2010 A series of trial and error, Wellbutrin, Effexor and unsuccessful attempts to discontinue. 2010 - 2017 Lexapro With several unsuccessful attempts to withdraw 2012 - 2017 Lamictal Successfully withdrew Lamictal no problem 2017 - 2020 Switched to 40mg. Prozac to prepare try another Withdrawal. 2020 - On 15mg Remeron for a few months during withdrawal Completely off of Antidepressants since Sept. 2020 Klonipin as needed throughout the process. .25 mostly, some .5, some .125, 2 to 12 times per mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 3, 2023 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 3, 2023 @rachie Thanks for sharing your experience, strength, and hope! Testifying that you have been surviving this ordeal and that you're still finding ways to take some "next best steps" in your healing process IS inspiration. It was more than a year after I jumped off the last drug (Zoloft) before I could even start to imagine any type of "normalcy" in my life again. From there, it's been an incremental process of stepping out back into the world again in very part-time ways. I did some volunteer work for a few hours a week just to find ways to stay somewhat connected to the world. A bit later, I was able to go back to school part-time to pursue a career change I wanted to make. All along, I wished the process would be faster, and over and over again, I had to "surrender," or "let go" of the ideas more critical parts of me held on to that I was supposed to be in some place other than I was. Rachie, you and I have chatted a bit, and I know you are investing in doing deeper inner work that will benefit you in the long run. You will have doubts, we all do, but I know you will also find growing trust in your healing journey, and greater ease in your life. ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 2 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted June 1, 2023 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 1, 2023 Hello, SA community! I'm posting a link to a clip here because I'm hoping it might be useful to some: https://youtu.be/EDsw1vGMD_U This clip is about "Stories of Hope" -- their origins (often in childhood), our addictions to them, and often the inevitable need to withdraw from them. Special thanks to my client, who agreed to have this clip published with no identifying names, images, or in-depth issue-specific information included. The focus of our coaching work together has been to support him through his withdrawal from Prozac after 25 years of use. He has previously withdrawn from benzodiazepines and now refrains from alcohol consumption and other drug use. Additionally, we have been addressing a number of life issues, including codependency, parenting, work/career, family of origin . . . and all the "stories of hope" associated with these areas of focus. We have been using "parts" perspectives (ACA reparenting/inner child and the Internal Family Systems framework) in our work together to address the agitation he experiences associated with conflict between his inner parts, both generally, and in connection with his psychiatric drug taper. My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clingingtoFaith Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Thank you for posting your story. I dropped my doc who prescribed me benzos and tried to cover up the side effects of benzos with 2 antidepressants cymbalta and lexapro. I was on the 3 for 3 years. I was getting worse, and money was low, and uneducated about the drugs. I quit too fast, might as well be cold turkey. I'm fighting, clinging on to hope that I could also heal. So very few success stories from those who quit benzos and antidepressants. And I have not seen anybody who quit those around the same time + cold turkey. 1 Starting 2015: Various ADs but mostly Lexapro 2020 to 2021 : Escitalopram 20mg, Duloxetine 60mg, Alprazolam 250mcg 2021 to 2023: Escitalopram 20mg, Duloxetine 60mg, Bromazepam 3mg Around March 2023: Stopped April 2023: Mirtazapine 7.5mg (around 1 month) April 2023: 3 days of Abilify April 27, 2023 to current: no brain drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted June 28, 2023 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 28, 2023 Hello @clingingtoFaith. I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. So little is really known about the effects of these drugs, or why some people seem to be able to get off them without much trouble while others like us are affected in such profoundly painful ways. No two people's paths are alike, but I understand your desire to find others with similar experiences. Early in my process in particular, I wanted to find others who had been on the same drugs as me and for a similar time period (25 years). I think I was looking for examples of successes that I could most believe might apply to me. I had so much doubt early on that I could heal! But healing does happen . . . some of it through purposeful actions and changes we make in our lives, and some through our body/brain/mind/spirit's incredible ability to heal itself! I discovered that finding some gentleness and compassion for myself is probably one of the most important assets on my healing path. Some days are easier than others. I wish you the best! 1 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 16 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 16 5-Year Post Jump Update: Recently, on April 28th, 2024, I passed the five-year mark of having completed my taper from psychiatric drugs (previously having quit all other problematic chemical use in my life - alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc.). So, this date is a HUGE milestone for me, and I’ve paused several times over the past few weeks to let that sink in. I’m SO grateful to have survived that brutal withdrawal process and to be living completely drug-free. Let me start by saying that in my life today, I am NOWHERE CLOSE to experiencing the terrifying and debilitating physical, psychological, or emotional issues that were such a painful part of daily life while going through the tapering process (5+ years). Because I pushed the pace of my taper, it’s clear to me now that I continued to experience some of those intense, lingering issues for several years after taking that last dose of Zoloft (which I discuss here in my success story). I acknowledge that some of the much more moderate physical aches, psychological stresses, or emotional distresses I encounter today may still be due to the long-term effects of having been on Zoloft and benzodiazepines for 25 years. However, I could just as easily attribute these experiences to maladaptive childhood survival strategies I’m still working to heal (a life-long process) or to the human aging process with me now at age 54. The point is that enduring pain – physical, psychological, or emotional – is THANKFULLY no longer the focus of my life. I still go through rough stretches, but the easier times are now my default. I no longer call these experiences “windows and waves” (a tapering term) because I don’t want to minimize the depths of pain and extreme volatility I endured during withdrawal. What I experience today are the “ups and downs” of life – tough at times, because life can be tough – but overall manageable and workable. I’ve discovered an abiding trust, even when things get very rough, that I will be OK as long as I continue with the self-care practices I discovered and adopted during my tapering and awakening process. This has been the “gift” of my withdrawal and healing process – to live each day more fully alive, learning to care for and love myself (and others) in ways I never knew was possible. As I have been healing and growing stronger, my life has continued to become very full. I graduated with a Master’s degree in social work last year and began a new career working as a private practice psychotherapist and life/wellness coach. The focus of my work is primarily on helping people heal the effects of childhood trauma, and this can sometimes involve supporting clients as they explore releasing psychiatric drugs (as well as other substances) from their lives. This has presented some professional challenges. It's very much true that I have found freedom and vitality I could never have imagined by quitting psychiatric drugs. At the same time, there were times I wasn’t sure I would survive the withdrawal process, so I fully respect people NOT wanting to take on this task, or questioning whether they have the resources they will need to endure the process. I’m very clear with people, personally or professionally, that I don’t see chemicals as a long-term solution to address psychological and emotional distress. On the one hand, drugs likely saved my life early on (absent other viable resources). On the other hand, they almost killed me. So, I never presume to know definitively what’s best for someone else as they evaluate whether to go on, continue with, or come off of psychiatric drugs. Ultimately, I see this as a very personal (and possibly life or death) decision. Why am I writing about this? I made a vow to myself and to you all who supported me in my withdrawal process that I would continue to talk openly about this issue – both the excruciating pain and terror I experienced coming off of the drugs and the awakening and newfound freedom I have found on the other side. And as long as the rates of psychiatric drug use continue to hold steady or even rise, this is a conversation that needs to happen, and I will continue to speak. 7 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus getofflex Posted May 16 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 16 Thank you for this beautiful 5 year update. You are a big inspiration to me. I applaud your commitment to being completely drug free! 1 Please do not private message me. Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you. ***Please note this is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one. Lexapro Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg; started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20 0.18 mg; Jul 16 0.17 mg, Aug 23 0.16 mg, Oct 7 0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005, Jul 8, 0.00. Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!! Woohoo!!! other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 16 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, getofflex said: Thank you for this beautiful 5 year update. You are a big inspiration to me. I applaud your commitment to being completely drug free! Thanks, getofflex! ☺️ And congratulations to you regarding "Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!! Woohoo!!!." How has it been since the jump? 1 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus getofflex Posted May 17 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17 I've had protracted WD, but it is very very slowly improving. I've also had some major trauma to deal with as I've gotten off the meds, so I think this is a lot of it. However, this is a good thing, because you can't heal what you can't feel. Getting off the meds has allowed me to access and process some deep emotional pain that has been buried for a very long time. I'm thankful that I'm able to do this. 4 Please do not private message me. Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you. ***Please note this is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one. Lexapro Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg; started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20 0.18 mg; Jul 16 0.17 mg, Aug 23 0.16 mg, Oct 7 0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005, Jul 8, 0.00. Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!! Woohoo!!! other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Thank you so much @elbee for this beautiful, inspiring update! Your courage, heart, and integrity rock my world. Congratulations on your healing, hard work, degree, and living life! Wishing you the very best of health, happiness, peace -- and thank you for being the change you wish to see in the world <3 Love and gratitude, A. 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp cod liver oil blend (incl. vit. A+D+E) w/ breakfast; calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 17 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17 9 hours ago, getofflex said: I've had protracted WD, but it is very very slowly improving. I've also had some major trauma to deal with as I've gotten off the meds, so I think this is a lot of it. However, this is a good thing, because you can't heal what you can't feel. Getting off the meds has allowed me to access and process some deep emotional pain that has been buried for a very long time. I'm thankful that I'm able to do this. I appreciate your ability to see the "opportunity" of accessing and processing deep emotional pain as a gift of the withdrawal process - it's been a stretch for me to see it when the pain is intense. It's good to hear you're experiencing slow improvements. I wish you the best on your path of healing and growth. Thanks for sharing your courage! 1 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 17 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17 4 hours ago, Ariel said: Thank you so much @elbee for this beautiful, inspiring update! Your courage, heart, and integrity rock my world. Congratulations on your healing, hard work, degree, and living life! Wishing you the very best of health, happiness, peace -- and thank you for being the change you wish to see in the world ❤️ Love and gratitude, A. Hey Ariel, it's great to connect with you here again! Thanks for your kind words and encouragement - I'm sending well-wishes your way, too 😊❣️ My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Thank you, Lou! Great to read your update. You are a big inspiration for me. I am struggling - have strong symptoms of depression and also brain fatigue. It messes with my relationships, which is the hardest, and also with my work. Doctors want to put me on Lamotrigin, in addition to the 50 mg of Zoloft and 15 mg of Mirtazapin I am already taking. I am torn, because I do not feel meds are a sustainable solution, but I desperately want to feel better. I feel I do a lot of work taking care of myself, 12 steps, trauma therapy and running, for example, but it is so far not paying off in improved health. Right now I feel life is cruel and hard. My hope is that I will somehow reach a bottom from which I can start to climb. I have some beautiful things in my life, a nice body, some nice friends, nature. But i feel terribly lonely in my struggle with longterm depression and anxiety. I don’t know anyone here in Sweden, or elswhere, who are on a similar journey as I am. I have tried different groups on facebook but I don’t feel anyone is seriously trying to get better, just to somehow get on with life. Taking meds, more and more, and trying to cope. It’s depressing. All the best to you, from a sunny Sweden. /Olle Started SSRI (Fluoxetine) 1999 for general anxiety and depression. 1999-2002 Fluoxetine 20 mg .2002-2005 oct. Citalopram 20 mg. Quit cold turkey from 10 mg. Depression after 6 months. 2006 March. Escitalopram instated, up to 10 mg. 2009 Jan. Quit Escitalopram cold turkey from 5 mg. Depression after 8 months that gradually got worse. Suicidal thoughts. 2010 Jan. Reinstated on Escitalopram 10 mg and Mirtazapin 15 mg. 2013 - 2019 Escitalopram 5 mg and Mirtazapin 7,5 mg. Also added Voxra, Seroquel and Wellbutrin in periods. No positive effect of those. 2019 June - Aug. Escitalopram 10 mg Mirtazapin 7,5 mg. 2019 aug- 2020 Jan. Escitalopram 5 mg Mirtazapin 15 mg. 2020 Jan - April. Escitalopram 5 mg, Mirtazapin 22,5 mg. 2020 April - June. Escitalopram 5 mg, Mirtazapin 15 mg. Depression coming back. 2020 June. Switched to Duloxetine 30 mg on Doctor's advice. Raised mood but harsh side effects - sleep problems, tinnitus, brain fog (withdrawal?) 2020 Aug. Dropped to 18 mg and from there 10 % taper down to 14 mg in Nov. Severe diarrhea and weight loss made me up the dose back to 15 mg. 2020 Nov- 2021 June. Staying on Duloxetine 15 mg. Feel depression coming back and severe muscle pain (shoulder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted May 22 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 22 On 5/18/2024 at 4:04 AM, Olle said: Thank you, Lou! Great to read your update. You are a big inspiration for me. I am struggling - have strong symptoms of depression and also brain fatigue. It messes with my relationships, which is the hardest, and also with my work. Doctors want to put me on Lamotrigin, in addition to the 50 mg of Zoloft and 15 mg of Mirtazapin I am already taking. I am torn, because I do not feel meds are a sustainable solution, but I desperately want to feel better. I feel I do a lot of work taking care of myself, 12 steps, trauma therapy and running, for example, but it is so far not paying off in improved health. Right now I feel life is cruel and hard. My hope is that I will somehow reach a bottom from which I can start to climb. I have some beautiful things in my life, a nice body, some nice friends, nature. But i feel terribly lonely in my struggle with longterm depression and anxiety. I don’t know anyone here in Sweden, or elswhere, who are on a similar journey as I am. I have tried different groups on facebook but I don’t feel anyone is seriously trying to get better, just to somehow get on with life. Taking meds, more and more, and trying to cope. It’s depressing. All the best to you, from a sunny Sweden. /Olle Hello @Olle. It's good to get an update from you ☺️ I definitely understand feeling "torn" - that meds are likely not a sustainable solution, and yet, a part of you is hoping to find something that will help ease your suffering. It's great you have been exploring ways and dedicating energy toward your self-care. I also understand the disappointment in feeling that all the self-care you are doing isn't enough. It sounds like you may be feeling isolated. . . or at least emotionally isolated in your struggles. Finding trusted others as a support network in recovery/healing/growth can make such a difference, but it can also be incredibly difficult to do! At least it hasn't been easy for me. Not everyone is on a healing journey and understands or is open to my process. Further, those who still reject parts of themselves will likely not be open to me bringing the full truth of who I am (all "parts" of me) to them. Yet, bringing the focus back to myself, I will add that as I have learned to "be there" more for myself (i.e., be consistently patient, gentle, nurturing, and compassionate to the most tender, vulnerable parts of myself), connections with other people also slowly started to shift and began to blossom. This is a "truth" I have found that's hard to put into words, but one that has been profound for me. Wishing you the best, Olle! Lou 1 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Emonda Posted June 6 Administrator Share Posted June 6 Hi @elbee I've just stumbled across your introduction and success story. Reading about your success was just what I needed today - thank you. It's so encouraging to read about members who have been on ADs long-term and succeed with their taper. I hope to join you on this side of the forum one day... 1 Please don't send me PMs. I am not a doctor. My comments are based on my personal experience with ADs and tapering. Consult your doctor about your own medical decisions. Start of taper: Jan ’22 Vortioxetine 15mg, End year 1: 4.5mg, End year 2: 2.38mg, Year 3: 8 Feb 2.19mg, 21 Mar 1.99mg, 2 May 1.83mg, 13 Jun 1.69mg, 25 Jul 1.50mg, 14 Aug 1.46mg, 3 Sep 1.43mg, 10 Sep 1.40mg, 17 Sep 1.37mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip52 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 @elbee Thank you so very much for sharing ((hug)). You reached a part of me that I couldn’t put into words. I’m down to 30mg of imipramine, still a long way to go and I’m sure many more days of stress and discomfort are coming but I will come back to “sit” with your words when I feel scared and alone. 1994-2002 several different SSRI’s, klonopin. 2002 ct klonopin, 2 wks later put back on klonopin, added Seroquel & lexapro, 2002 weaned klonopin 2003 weaned off seroquel. 2006 Ct lexapro, six week later added imipramine 250mg, 2016-2017 imipramine taper 150mg, 2017-2019 100 mg, Jan 2020 50mg, 2 weeks later 60 mg November 2022 56 mg December 2022 50mg 4/5/23 47mg April 2023 40mg june 23,2023 35mg, April 15, 2024 33mg, May 15, 2024 32mg, 5/27/24 30mg, 6/09/24 29mg, 6/14 28mg, 8/2 27mg Ropinirole 1/2020 3/21 ropinirol 2 mg Ozempic 4/2023 .25, 6/26/23 .37mg 12/1/23 .39mg, 4/24 40mg, 5/16/24 .25mg 6/14 0mg clonidine .1mg 1/2024 Supplements: boron, diatomaceous earth, cream of tartar and Celtic sea salt, transdermal magnesium oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted June 6 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, Tulip52 said: @elbee Thank you so very much for sharing ((hug)). You reached a part of me that I couldn’t put into words. I’m down to 30mg of imipramine, still a long way to go and I’m sure many more days of stress and discomfort are coming but I will come back to “sit” with your words when I feel scared and alone. Hey Tulip52, I'm glad this has been helpful for you 👍☺️ I personally know how powerful it can be for someone else to speak (write) the words that are my truth before I have found those words myself. I'm glad what you read by me was that type of resource for you. Congratulations on the progress you have made so far in your taper with imipramine. The process is definitely a marathon, not a sprint, which can sometimes feel discouraging. So learning to be gentle and patient with yourself, particularly the parts of you that feel scared and alone, is key ❤️ Also, it looks like you are tapering off Ozempic? I'm now very resistant to taking any medication generally, but my A1C levels were slightly above normal for several years, and my doctor was pretty insistent about getting on Ozempic (despite me not being too overweight). I thought, this wasn't a psychiatric drug, so I'm probably OK to give it a try. I was on it for almost a year but I actually gained a little weight while taking it, and the digestive side effects were too much for me. I quit "cold turkey," not thinking too much of it, and my weight very quickly skyrocketed - yet, I wasn't eating any more than I had been eating while taking it. I soon put things together and realized my body was probably experiencing some type of withdrawal (super-sensitivity of disuse). This apparent withdrawal reaction has been over the last two months or so, and things seem to have stabilized now, and my weight is slowly going back down again. I'm guessing others have experienced this too, but I'm also coming to trust my own experience that says my body seems not to react well to most drugs generally, and definitely does not react well to getting OFF of drugs. 1 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted June 6 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 6 3 hours ago, Emonda said: Hi @elbee I've just stumbled across your introduction and success story. Reading about your success was just what I needed today - thank you. It's so encouraging to read about members who have been on ADs long-term and succeed with their taper. I hope to join you on this side of the forum one day... Thanks for reading my story, Emonda, and I appreciate hearing it was helpful. ☺️ The taper was a slow, very tough process, but yes, we can make it through. It looks like you've made a lot of progress, demonstrating patience in the process. I know that's not easy. I found it helpful to focus on "next best steps" instead of keeping an end goal at the forefront. You are on a path of healing, and you've come a long way. I wish you the best on your continuing journey 👍❤️ 4 My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip52 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 7 hours ago, elbee said: Hey Tulip52, I'm glad this has been helpful for you 👍☺️ I personally know how powerful it can be for someone else to speak (write) the words that are my truth before I have found those words myself. I'm glad what you read by me was that type of resource for you. Congratulations on the progress you have made so far in your taper with imipramine. The process is definitely a marathon, not a sprint, which can sometimes feel discouraging. So learning to be gentle and patient with yourself, particularly the parts of you that feel scared and alone, is key ❤️ Also, it looks like you are tapering off Ozempic? I'm now very resistant to taking any medication generally, but my A1C levels were slightly above normal for several years, and my doctor was pretty insistent about getting on Ozempic (despite me not being too overweight). I thought, this wasn't a psychiatric drug, so I'm probably OK to give it a try. I was on it for almost a year but I actually gained a little weight while taking it, and the digestive side effects were too much for me. I quit "cold turkey," not thinking too much of it, and my weight very quickly skyrocketed - yet, I wasn't eating any more than I had been eating while taking it. I soon put things together and realized my body was probably experiencing some type of withdrawal (super-sensitivity of disuse). This apparent withdrawal reaction has been over the last two months or so, and things seem to have stabilized now, and my weight is slowly going back down again. I'm guessing others have experienced this too, but I'm also coming to trust my own experience that says my body seems not to react well to most drugs generally, and definitely does not react well to getting OFF of drugs. @elbeeHey, there. So good to find your response 😊. Yes, it’s def a marathon. I like what you said about learning to be patient with myself, particularly the parts of me that feel scared and alone. Evening time is the worse for some reason. I think it’s a combination of being tired and the loneliness that I’ve always felt at the close of the day as an unwanted child.. yes, even at my age I still feel the abandonment. I am a type two diabetic and up about 50 lbs bc of the imipramine that I’m on. I started Ozempic a little over a year ago, lost only maybe 5 lbs but my blood sugar is much better. I just can’t take the side affects so I went down on my own, hoping my sugar will still be ok. The same week that I moved down with the Ozempic I gained the 5 lbs back. 1994-2002 several different SSRI’s, klonopin. 2002 ct klonopin, 2 wks later put back on klonopin, added Seroquel & lexapro, 2002 weaned klonopin 2003 weaned off seroquel. 2006 Ct lexapro, six week later added imipramine 250mg, 2016-2017 imipramine taper 150mg, 2017-2019 100 mg, Jan 2020 50mg, 2 weeks later 60 mg November 2022 56 mg December 2022 50mg 4/5/23 47mg April 2023 40mg june 23,2023 35mg, April 15, 2024 33mg, May 15, 2024 32mg, 5/27/24 30mg, 6/09/24 29mg, 6/14 28mg, 8/2 27mg Ropinirole 1/2020 3/21 ropinirol 2 mg Ozempic 4/2023 .25, 6/26/23 .37mg 12/1/23 .39mg, 4/24 40mg, 5/16/24 .25mg 6/14 0mg clonidine .1mg 1/2024 Supplements: boron, diatomaceous earth, cream of tartar and Celtic sea salt, transdermal magnesium oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip52 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 On 6/6/2024 at 10:21 AM, elbee said: Hey Tulip52, I'm glad this has been helpful for you 👍☺️ I personally know how powerful it can be for someone else to speak (write) the words that are my truth before I have found those words myself. I'm glad what you read by me was that type of resource for you. Congratulations on the progress you have made so far in your taper with imipramine. The process is definitely a marathon, not a sprint, which can sometimes feel discouraging. So learning to be gentle and patient with yourself, particularly the parts of you that feel scared and alone, is key ❤️ Also, it looks like you are tapering off Ozempic? I'm now very resistant to taking any medication generally, but my A1C levels were slightly above normal for several years, and my doctor was pretty insistent about getting on Ozempic (despite me not being too overweight). I thought, this wasn't a psychiatric drug, so I'm probably OK to give it a try. I was on it for almost a year but I actually gained a little weight while taking it, and the digestive side effects were too much for me. I quit "cold turkey," not thinking too much of it, and my weight very quickly skyrocketed - yet, I wasn't eating any more than I had been eating while taking it. I soon put things together and realized my body was probably experiencing some type of withdrawal (super-sensitivity of disuse). This apparent withdrawal reaction has been over the last two months or so, and things seem to have stabilized now, and my weight is slowly going back down again. I'm guessing others have experienced this too, but I'm also coming to trust my own experience that says my body seems not to react well to most drugs generally, and definitely does not react well to getting OFF of drugs. @elbee Guess what? I quit the Ozempic and did gain about 5 lbs but my stomach feels so much better. And yes, I gained while taking it, too.. crazy, huh? 1 1994-2002 several different SSRI’s, klonopin. 2002 ct klonopin, 2 wks later put back on klonopin, added Seroquel & lexapro, 2002 weaned klonopin 2003 weaned off seroquel. 2006 Ct lexapro, six week later added imipramine 250mg, 2016-2017 imipramine taper 150mg, 2017-2019 100 mg, Jan 2020 50mg, 2 weeks later 60 mg November 2022 56 mg December 2022 50mg 4/5/23 47mg April 2023 40mg june 23,2023 35mg, April 15, 2024 33mg, May 15, 2024 32mg, 5/27/24 30mg, 6/09/24 29mg, 6/14 28mg, 8/2 27mg Ropinirole 1/2020 3/21 ropinirol 2 mg Ozempic 4/2023 .25, 6/26/23 .37mg 12/1/23 .39mg, 4/24 40mg, 5/16/24 .25mg 6/14 0mg clonidine .1mg 1/2024 Supplements: boron, diatomaceous earth, cream of tartar and Celtic sea salt, transdermal magnesium oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted July 8 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 8 On 6/24/2024 at 10:29 AM, Tulip52 said: @elbee Guess what? I quit the Ozempic and did gain about 5 lbs but my stomach feels so much better. And yes, I gained while taking it, too.. crazy, huh? Yes, very strange! But then I've come to understand that I seem not to react well or get the full benefits of taking medication that others seem to take in ways that work well for them. My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raul Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 On 7/8/2024 at 5:56 PM, elbee said: Yes, very strange! But then I've come to understand that I seem not to react well or get the full benefits of taking medication that others seem to take in ways that work well for them. I am really surprised at your story (sorry for my English, not my native tongue) I live in Spain, I am a gay 54 years old, and has been on antidepressants for 20 years. At the moment I am in a Prozac bridge 20 mg, not stabilized yet, with lots of w/d symptoms from the old antidepressant. I am really very scared about the fact that been on meds is not helpful and been off of them too after all the trauma u have to get through. Here, I live alone, is very hard to explain to people what's happening to you, all of them continue saying that I have to continue with meds. 10 years ago I tried 2 times to wean off meds, and was impossible for me, so I have convinced myself to be on meds for life...... But even been on meds I started to have "relapses" as doctors suggested. Finally this year taking 100 mg, then 50 mg of pristiq and being very difficult to tapper off, I bridged to prozac 20 mg 3 weeks ago waiting for stabilise. But I start to be hopeless, the symptoms are very hard to deal with. Now a miracle would be to stabilise on "*******" Prozac and then probably a hiperbolic tapper of at least 5 years, but I am very scared. Don't know what to do, I am very lost. Your story made me cried. Now what I need is some support, even a little one. Wish you the best. history: 2004-2009: paroxetine 20 mg. may 2009 to december 2009: mirtazapine 30 mg january 2010-july 2010: prozac 20 mg september 2010-december 2011: escitalpram 10 mg and march 2012 to december 2012: escitalopram 15 mg march 2013-16 june 2014: venlafaxine 75 mg: cold turkey 6th september 2014 escitalopram 10 mg tapering it in 1 mg /month until june 2015: tapering made in 6 months but have no respected 10% result: w/d symptoms 20 july 2015 reinstated 10 mg and then 20 mg until may 2022 May 2022 until may 2024 pristiq 50 and 100 mg May 2024 added Lamictal 200 mg, switch to Prozac 20 mg, added mirtazapine 15 mg and clonazepam 0.5 mg to cope with w/d symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus elbee Posted September 18 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 18 On 9/5/2024 at 2:24 PM, raul said: I am really surprised at your story (sorry for my English, not my native tongue) I live in Spain, I am a gay 54 years old, and has been on antidepressants for 20 years. At the moment I am in a Prozac bridge 20 mg, not stabilized yet, with lots of w/d symptoms from the old antidepressant. I am really very scared about the fact that been on meds is not helpful and been off of them too after all the trauma u have to get through. Here, I live alone, is very hard to explain to people what's happening to you, all of them continue saying that I have to continue with meds. 10 years ago I tried 2 times to wean off meds, and was impossible for me, so I have convinced myself to be on meds for life...... But even been on meds I started to have "relapses" as doctors suggested. Finally this year taking 100 mg, then 50 mg of pristiq and being very difficult to tapper off, I bridged to prozac 20 mg 3 weeks ago waiting for stabilise. But I start to be hopeless, the symptoms are very hard to deal with. Now a miracle would be to stabilise on "*******" Prozac and then probably a hiperbolic tapper of at least 5 years, but I am very scared. Don't know what to do, I am very lost. Your story made me cried. Now what I need is some support, even a little one. Wish you the best. Hello @raul, it sounds like we have a lot in common! We are both currently age 54, gay, and have experience wrestling with long-term use of antidepressants and getting off of them. I relate to what you shared about feeling alone in the psychiatric drug tapering process, with those in my life not understanding what I'm going through (including many professionals). On the one hand, there can still be a lot of stigma about taking these types of drugs, and on the other hand, the default message is that they are "the answer," and you need to be/stay on them. I also relate to the confusion of not knowing whether the painful symptoms I'm experiencing are side effects of the medication, symptoms of withdrawal, or experiences of symptoms that still exist . . . likely symptoms that led me to take the drugs initially. It's such an uncomfortable, stuck, and, like you said, "lost" place to be! The answer for me was that I never knew for sure (probably all of these things were going on) . . . I just knew my life journey involved getting off the drugs and finding a new way to live. I'm grateful I survived this process and have found greater peace, connection, and freedom today. I fully agree with this website's perspective that we must find a sustainable pace for seeking this type of profound change in our lives. If we try to go too fast, we pay a painful price. And if we try to make too many changes or adjustments too quickly (for example, dropping, then reinstating, then dropping, then reinstating, then repeatedly bridging by switching drugs, etc.), we also pay a very high price. Our brain has a remarkable capacity to heal, but we can't push the pace faster than our brain can handle, and we can't keep changing course because parts of us believe at different times that something other than what we are doing is the "right answer." I found an ongoing tension within me - a part of me that said these drugs are dangerous and making me sick, and I need to get off ASAP, and another part who was terrified that I wouldn't be able to survive the withdrawal process if pushed too hard and dropped too quickly. One thing that made my tapering process work better was to validate the truth in each of these part's perspectives and, at the same time, discover and strengthen an "adult" inner wisdom in me that could take the lead in negotiating with these parts of me to find a consistent, steady pace in my withdrawal process. Finally, I often write about the need to REPLACE the drugs with something else. For me, a successful taper involves not only the reduction or removal of something (chemicals/drugs) but also adding new things to my life - self-care - to support me in living in new ways. For me, some of the self-care has been external - things I do, such as eat well, prioritize sleep, exercise, set healthy boundaries with other people and with my work, etc. And some of my new self-care practices involve internal processes like connecting to my feelings, bringing more compassion to myself and the parts of me that experience sadness or get scared, validating and honoring my truth, skillfully negotiating inner conflict between different parts/perspectives, and setting limits with critical, angry, compulsive, or volatile parts of me. These practices have become non-negotiable in my life. If I'm going to stay off the drugs, then these practices need to remain a central part of how I live. I wish you the best on your journey, @raul, and I hope some of what I wrote supports you in your journey. My suggestions are not medical advice. They are my opinions based on my own experience, strength and hope. You are in charge of your own medical / healing / recovery choices. My success story | My introduction thread ZOLOFT FREE - COMPLETELY DRUG FREE 4/28/2019! - total time on 28+ years BENZO FREE! 4/7/2018 - total time on 27+ years REMERON FREE! 12/11/2016 - total time on 15 months Caffeine & Nicotine Free 2014 / 2015 - smoked for 28 years Alcohol Free 4/1/2014 - drank for 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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