Upnorth: reinstating

[Upnorth]

55 minutes ago, checkmate said:

looks like you are still drinking coffee on a daily basis and I read in one post that you are also a smoker - is that correct?

Quit smoking 18 months ago.  1 cup of coffee maximum,  sometimes less. 

Thanks for the suggestions.

The nausea is terrible. 

[Upnorth]

1 hour ago, checkmate said:

it can be stimulating. Again, as you know already, you NEED to sleep.

That's part of the problem,  I think it is stimulating.  Unlike in the past , it used to help my sleep  (pre-withdrawal)

[ChessieCat]

Just now, Upnorth said:

That's part of the problem,  I think it is stimulating.  Unlike in the past , it used to help my sleep  (pre-withdrawal)

 

Did you see this?

 

On 6/11/2022 at 4:08 AM, Altostrata said:

Suggest you move 3.5mg Zoloft by an hour earlier each day until you are taking it at noon.

 

[ChessieCat]

And this:

 

On 6/12/2022 at 9:57 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Also, taking the Zoloft late may be interfering with your sleep.

 

 

[Upnorth]

14 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Did you see this?

 

 

@ChessieCat

Thank you for your concern.  Yes I seen the posts.  Lots of good suggestions,  don't know which one to choose.  I've been so sick and weak,  barely functioning.  The nausea/vertigo is off the charts. This is effecting my thinking and my mind feels so confused. I'm really agitated a well.  I desperately need a break /window.  Barely get off the couch . 

So tempted to take an ativan. 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Upnorth said:

So tempted to take an ativan.

 

That's the easy solution.  But it is not necessarily a good or the best solution.

 

The other suggestions (non drug) that have been made require effort.  We do understand that when you are in the thick of things it can be difficult to do things to help ourselves.  But I think you are at the point where you need to make a decision about whether you want to get away from the grip of the drug/s or whether you are going to keep falling back into clasp.

 

If I was in your position, and this is just my thoughts about it, I would be moving the Zoloft earlier by 1 hour (or 1/2 hour) each day AND at the same time, going to bed 1 hour (1/2 hour) earlier each night/morning.  It doesn't have to be every day, you could do 2 or 3 days at the same time for both.

[Upnorth]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:46 AM, OldDodgy said:

group of us ( can’t find the video link to this at moment) who are very intolerant to the reintroduction of an Ssri after coming off it. Personally I suffered extreme agitation

@OldDodgy 

How would I know if this was happening?  I have been more irritable and agitated and the nausea is bad.  Not sure if that's just withdrawal though . Things have been extra tuff for awhile. . Hard to think straight. 

[ChessieCat]

20 hours ago, Upnorth said:

I have increased to 3.5mg.zoloft for 2 days now.

 

Please update your drug signature.  We need to be able to see changes at a glance and not have spend valuable time reading back through posts to get the information.

[Upnorth]

5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

, I would be moving the Zoloft earlier by 1 hour (or 1/2 hour

@ChessieCat

I am doing this , day 2. Something has to work. 

I do want off these drugs but often wonder if reinstatement has made me more irritable and nauseous.  I keep praying that the black cloud will lift and I'll see a glimmer of hope. 

I hope I haven't upset anybody,  it's not my nature nor my intent.  I just get desperate and my thinking goes haywire. The pain/nausea brings me to tears at times. 

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, Upnorth said:

I just get desperate and my thinking goes haywire. 

 

Yes most of us here understand this.  And that is why we post with suggestions and trying to encourage you.  But there does also come a point where the encouragers run out of steam too and have to move on.

 

10 minutes ago, Upnorth said:

I am doing this , day 2.

 

That's good.  I don't think you had specifically stated that you were doing this.

 

Are you also moving the time you go to be earlier?.  I think this a good opportunity to do this because if you don't you will be setting up/keeping yourself in a bad pattern when there is a possibility that moving the Zoloft might help with your sleep.  If you are already able to get to sleep at 3.30am and taking Zoloft at 10.00pm then to me it makes sense to use this to your advantage.

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Upnorth]

23 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

  If you are already able to get to sleep at 3.30am and taking Zoloft at 10.00pm then to me it makes sense to use this to your advantage.

@ChessieCat

I usually have trouble falling asleep. Sometimes when I take 50mg gravol ,  it helps but my sleep is fragmented. I've always been a night hawk but it never was an issue before. 

This has been my sleeping pattern for years. Never been a morning person .

[ChessieCat]

It is up to you whether you want to continue the way you are or try to change things.  Just because you used to work night shift doesn't mean that it is impossible to change it.  Do you really want to spend the rest of your life "living" during the hours when most of the rest of the "world" is sleeping?  Because you have lived as a night shift worker, perhaps you are scared to start living like other people do because it's not something you are used to, it's different and would be strange.

 

It doesn't appear that things are working for you the way they are.  It might be the drug/s or it might not.  It might be a combination.

 

If it was me I would be using this time and trying to trick myself/body into thinking that moving Zoloft and bedtime at the same time will work.  Basically telling yourself that it will make a difference.  But as I said it's up to you and only you can do it.

[Upnorth]

16 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

perhaps you are scared to start living like other people do because it's not something you are used to, it's

@ChessieCat

I'm not scared, it's just become my "normal "  and is , at this time, the only comfortable part of my day. 

Years ago when I was driving truck,  I used to get up at 3 and work 14 hour days.  Lots of changing shift times.

 

[OldDodgy]

3 hours ago, Upnorth said:

@OldDodgy 

How would I know if this was happening?  I have been more irritable and agitated and the nausea is bad.  Not sure if that's just withdrawal though . Things have been extra tuff for awhile. . Hard to think straight. 

@Upnorth

 

Senior mods are dealing with your partial SSRI reinstatement.  
I had only commented that for me reintroducing SSRIs caused extreme anxiety. 
Therefore I found this paper and it made sense for me, especially as I am Cyp450 and Cyp 3A 4 deficient. 
I believe you can be tested for ambient serotonin levels. 
 

This paper may be of interest to you 

 

https://www.chandramd.com/blog/anxiety-its-not-just-serotonin

 

Nevertheless I defer to the mods as it is their remit and have  the experience of many years. 
 

Good Wishes 

 

OD 

 

 

[Altostrata]

14 hours ago, OldDodgy said:

This paper may be of interest to you 

 

https://www.chandramd.com/blog/anxiety-its-not-just-serotonin

 

 

You bet it's not just serotonin because the serotonin theory is a superstition!

 

On 6/15/2022 at 12:23 AM, Upnorth said:

I have increased to 3.5mg.zoloft for 2 days now. Praying for relief.  Should I still do a split dose?

 

I'm very frustrated, @Upnorth I've gone to a lot of trouble following your topic but you do not seem to have paid any attention to my contributions.

 

I explained up above why you might prefer a split dose. However, I also said it's clear to me that you hate taking Zoloft at all. This may affect the way you report the effects of any kind of dose of Zoloft. Thus, I cannot tell whether reinstatement has any benefit.

 

We cannot argue with your recurrent inclination to take a benzo. If you want to take a benzo, take a benzo. Maybe that's the answer for you. You'll have to work out continuing prescriptions with your prescriber.

[Upnorth]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

clear to me that you hate taking Zoloft at all. 

@Altostrata

I apologize for upsetting you.  I haven't been feeling very well  and  just feel overwhelmed and the nausea is brutal, hardly moving from the couch.   You are right,  I don't like taking the zoloft but I do take it in hopes of stabilizing.  I wonder though,  if it has contributed to my feeling worse. I will start the split dose today . 

[Upnorth]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

You bet it's not just serotonin because the serotonin theory is a superstition!

Would it be more accurate to say it's about a dysregulated nervous system? 

[Roserdl]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:28 AM, Upnorth said:

Quit smoking 18 months ago.  1 cup of coffee maximum,  sometimes less. 

Thanks for the suggestions.

The nausea is terrible. 

Have you tried real peppermint leaf tea, not the supermarket kind.  If you haven't you might want to try it as I had extreme nausea and vomiting early on and it helped immensely.  Also real chamomile flower tea and lemon balm may help sleep.  Cut out all caffeine, even one cup can effect sleep and good on you for quitting smoking!

[Upnorth]

          Thursday June 16th 

4:00pm- nausea 8,air hunger 7, about muscle tension 7.

5:30pm-- eggs and hash browns. Mag 250,probiitic, 2 ginger pills. . Nausea 7,air hunger 7,muscle tension 7.

7:00pm-- symptoms same 

8 :30pm --  zoloft 1mg. Nausea 7, air hunger 7, upper abdominal tension 7.

9:00pm-- headache 7, take 1 aspirin. 

10:00pm -- zoloft 2mg, 1 toast. Nausea 6,air hunger 6, muscle tension 6. Headache 5.

       Friday June 17th 

12:00am -- nausea 6,air hunger 6,abdominal pressure 6,headache 5.

2:00am nausea 5,air hunger 5, about tension 5,headache 4.

2:30am - gravol 50mg. Go to bed. 

2:30-3:30-- not sleeping, restless. 

3:30am -9:30am -- fragmented sleep.

9:30-11:30am -- trying to sleep more. , so fatigued. 

12:00-- 1/2 coffee,  nausea 6, air hunger 6, ab muscle 6. Ribs hurt.

2:30pm -- oatmeal, mag 150, 2 ginger pills.  Nausea 8, air hunger 6, muscle tension 6, agitated. 

5:00pm -- same. , agitated, fatigued. 

[Upnorth]

Man I feel sick,wish I could get a break. Trying to pull out of the downward spiral and feeling depressed. Can't seem to shake the sadness and crying.  I'm wondering if reinstatement was a mistake,  is the zoloft doing this? Just want to stabilize.  So fatigued, and the irritability is terrible. Sorry everyone,.just in such a dark hole lately and feeling depleted.  

If I could sleep 12hrs a day, I would,.then I wouldn't have to go thru this. The lack of sleep is awful. 

[Healingcontinues]

Hi upnorth.

 

I saw that you are trying the split dosing of the Zoloft. I know you feel like you don’t really get a break from the symptoms at all, but are you able to pinpoint if you feel any different after you take it? Do you notice that the symptoms you have are any less/more intense in the next hours after you have taken it?

 

I know all too well the feelings of nausea, air hunger, fatigue, insomnia, anxiety/panic, hopelessness… trust me- I have had them all too, and on many days I still do. But not nearly as often or as intense as they once were.

 

Nine months ago I was lucky to get 2-3 hours of sleep a night. This went on for 6 months. My brain would not switch off at all. I was nauseous every single day and felt like I was going to throw up at any time. I had pain in every area of my body. I could not walk 100m and I genuinely thought this would not get better. I didn’t want to die, but I sure knew that I did not want to live the way I was living. 
 

People were telling me to take more medication, they were in denial of what was happening, and many thought it was all in my head. But us, the ones going through this, know it is not of course. Thankfully I am really stubborn and I knew I had to switch my mindset. This was not by any means easy to do, and it did not happen overnight. I realised that people can literally stand on their heads and tell me to do this, do that… but ultimately it was up to ME to change and to take action. I had to take control. There was no other choice. This is so so difficult when you realise that you cannot control your symptoms. But what you CAN control is how you respond to them.

 

Did you know that a sedentary lifestyle can cause nausea and extreme gastrointestinal issues? We were designed to move and inactivity can create a whole host of stomach issues. Try searching inactivity and nausea on the internet. I also noticed that probiotics in the early stages made me feel more ill- It made my stomach gassy, made my whole torso vibrate and caused a lot of discomfort. I don’t take these anymore and my stomach issues are much better.

 

I would so recommend that you try to get more active in your day to day life. I know that this can feel like an impossible task, I really do. 8 months ago I still had to crawl up my stairs. But, I forced myself to walk every single day come rain or shine and committed to doing this for months. People looked at me in the streets like I was a crazy person as sometimes I would do this with tears streaming down my face. I did not care, I was in survival mode. Well…yesterday, I walked 10km, this week I have been on many bike rides, I have ridden my horses and today I plan to go for a surf. Even 4 months ago this would have been impossible for me.

 

In terms of sleep, last night I slept 7 hours (00:00-07:00). I too have had an unusual sleep pattern for many years, working a lot of night shifts in the health care sector. I had to let go of the notion of, ‘just because that is the way it has always been, doesn’t mean that is the way it has to be’. If I was serious about regaining some normalcy in my life, then I really need to try everything I could to help myself. My sleep is still unpredictable, and some night I lie awake all night, but this is not the norm anymore. This too was a torturously slow process of improvement… but it IS improving. 
 

I know you are suffering, I know it is horrible in all senses. I know that this is inhumane, and you feel lonely and distraught. These things and feeling are all there, and it is so ok to let them exist, to complain about them and be frustrated and fed up. Those emotions need to come out too. But, I really encourage you to at least transform that energy into things that you can control and become proactive in your own healing. 

 

Recovery is hard. It is not simple. It is not linear. And there is no ‘quick fix’. It is painful, scary, and exhausting. But let me assure you this: it is possible.
 

If you need some help on how to do this and what can help, we will all support you with that in the best way we can. You don’t have to do this alone. I would be thrilled if the next time you post that you are able to include something that you have done to help yourself with the symptoms.

Remember what I said about you having a choice. You too have a choice to try regain your health. But ultimately it is up to you. Only you have the power to do this. The undoing and the releasing is a process- but I promise that freedom awaits on the other side.

 

How about setting yourself some realistic goals for the coming week and including those in your updates?Recovery is full of its ups and downs, and it can be so hard to stick to these goals. But having a list of these is so empowering, reminding you of where you have been and which direction you want to keep going in when you feel like you are slipping off the tracks.

 

Everyone is rooting for you, Upnorth. You can do this and you will get through it.

 

Wishing you well. Take care. 
 

[Upnorth]

12 hours ago, Healingcontinues said:

 

I know all too well the feelings of nausea, air hunger, fatigue, insomnia, anxiety/panic, hopelessness…

@Healingcontinues

Definitely how I feel. 

 

12 hours ago, Healingcontinues said:

nauseous every single day and felt like I was going to throw up at any time. I had pain in every area of my body. I could not walk 100m and I genuinely thought this would not get better. I didn’t want to die, but I sure knew that I did not want to live the way

The nausea is, for sure , horrible and I think I will cut the probiotics and see if it helps. The SI thoughts are scary and unrealistic because I am so depleted. 

12 hours ago, Healingcontinues said:

. I too have had an unusual sleep pattern for many years,

For me, late at night is the only window.  By the time I go to bed,  I feel almost normal.  I find myself thinking"I dont feel too bad"Then I go to bed and it all resets,  waking with cortisol /panic/fear.

That is why I often think about the ativan. I know it's not the answer but when I take some, the"black" cloud lifts and the SI  thoughts go away. The air hunger and nausea also diminish and I have a better day. 

The chronic flu feeling eases up as well but I know it's just another drug. I'm hoping the zoloft will help, it's probably the lesser of the 2 evils.

Just tired of being sick.

[Upnorth]

@Altostrata @Frogie

         Friday June 17th 

5:00pm-- nausea 6,air hunger 6, abdominal tension 6. Agitated. 

6:00pm -- chicken and potato. Mag 250, 2 ginger pills.  Symptoms the same. 

7:30pm -- zoloft 1mg. Nausea 6, air hunger 6, dizzy. 

9:00pm-- nausea 7,air hunger 6, tension 7. Agitated. 

10:00pm -- zoloft 2mg,  2 toast. Nausea 6, air hunger 6,muscle tension 6, headache 6.

       Sat June 18th 

12:00-- nausea 5,air hunger 5,ab tension 5.headache 5.

2:00am-- nausea 4,air hunger 4, muscle tension 4.

2:45am-- 50mg gravol. Go to bed. 

2:45-4:00am -- not sleeping. Agitated. 

4:00am -- fell asleep. 

4:00-9:30am-- fragmented sleep.  Restless. 

9:30am -- wake with headache,  take 1 325mg aspirin. Ice pack, back to bed. Feel panicky. 

12:00pm -- wake up with intrusive thoughts. Get up 1 coffee ,  nausea 6, air hunger 8, ab muscle tension 7. Agitated. 

2:00pm -- oatmeal, mag 150mg,  2 ginger pills.  Nausea 6,.air hunger 7. Muscle tension  7. Agitated. 

3:30pm -- nausea 8,air hunger 7,muscle tension 7. Flu feeling. 

5:30pm -- chicken and potato,  nausea 7, air hunger 7, muscle tension 7.

6:30pm--  Zoloft 1mg split dose.  Nausea 6, air hunger 6,ab tension 7. Dizzy. 

7:30pm  nausea 6,air hunger 6. Tens 6. Headache 5.flu feeling

[Altostrata]

You went up to 4mg?

[Upnorth]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You went up to 4mg?

@Altostrata

No, 2mg at 10pm and moving 1mg earlier each day as you suggested. 

I don't know if this means anything but I've been more agitated/nauseous and depressed. 

[Altostrata]

What is your daily Zoloft schedule? I can't see it in your daily notes.

[Upnorth]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What is your daily Zoloft schedule? I can't see it in your daily notes.

@Altostrata

2mg zoloft at 10:00pm.

1mg moving up daily,so today will be at 5:30.

[Upnorth]

@Altostrata @Frogie

        Saturday  June 18th 

6:30pm -- ZOLOFT 1 mg.

Nausea 6,air hunger 7, ab tension 7, dizzy. 

7:30pm -- same. , headache 6, flu feeling. 

10:00-- ZOLOFT 2mg. 

Headache 6,nausea 6,air hunger 6. Frustrated. 

11:00pm-- headache 6, sym the same. 1 325mg aspirin.

            Sunday June 19th 

12:30am -- headache 6,nausea 6,air hunger 5.muscle tension 5.

2:30am -- headache 5, nausea 5, air hunger 5,

50 mg gravol. 

2:30-3:30-- can't sleep.

3:30am-9:30 -- fragmented, restless sleep. 

9:30-11:30-- tying to sleep more, fatigued. Intrusive thoughts. 

12:00pm -- 1/2 coffee, nausea 6,air hunger 6,muscle tension 7. Agitated. 

1:30pm -- oatmeal, mag 150,2 ginger pills.  Nausea 7, air hunger 7, ab tension 7. Flu feeling. 

3:00pm-- symptoms the same. Went for a 20 minute walk.

4:30pm-- 50mg gravol.symptoms the same. 

5:30pm -- chicken and rice.  ZOLOFT 1mg. Nausea 7, air hunger 7. Ab tension 7.

7:00pm-- nausea 6, air hunger 7,ab tension 7, fatigue, frustrated. 

 

[Upnorth]

@Altostrata @Frogie

I'm just sitting here thinking cause it's the "clearer" part of my day and I'm wondering if I waited too long to reinstate. Do you think 16 months off was too far out ? 

[Altostrata]

Yep, you hate reinstatement, we get that. As we discussed before, if you want to stop, you can taper off. 

 

It does not appear you are taking your 2 doses of Zoloft on a consistent schedule?

 

Please include your sleep pattern in your daily notes.

[Upnorth]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

It does not appear you are taking your 2 doses of Zoloft on a consistent schedule?

@Altostrata

I take 2mg of zoloft at 10pm every day. And the other 1mg of zoloft,  I have been moving 1 hour earlier as you have suggested . I am trying to do what you suggested by moving 1mg earlier every day. I'm  hoping to stabilize. The days are brutal and I'm not doing well .

My sleep pattern is in my daily reports.  

 

[Upnorth]

19 hours ago, Upnorth said:

-3:30-- can't sleep.

3:30am-9:30 -- fragmented, restless sleep. Cortisol spike. 

9:30-11:30-- tying to sleep more, fatigued. Intrusive thoughts.

@Altostrata

 

[Altostrata]

I can't make head or tail of your sleep schedule, either, @Upnorth We've already touched upon it being unusual, and how you might be working against your own body clock.

 

It's possible that the Zoloft you take at night is keeping you awake, but I presume your sleep schedule predates your going off Zoloft?

[Upnorth]

12 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 but I presume your sleep schedule predates your going off Zoloft?

@Altostrata 

Yes it does. .been that way for many years but I'm working on it.  I don't get tired before 3 am. And that is the only time I feel okay. 

19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

can't make head or tail of your sleep schedule, either,

Am I not doing the daily log properly? I thought I  was. 

[Altostrata]

The log is okay. But I still can't tell anything as it appears your symptoms are identical from morning to night. As noted before, since you don't like taking Zoloft, would you report any good effects of the drug? I don't know.

[Upnorth]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

The log is okay. But I still can't tell anything as it appears your symptoms are identical from morning to night. As noted before, since you don't like taking Zoloft, would you report any good effects of the drug? I don't know.

@Altostrata

My symptoms don't change much during the day. The nausea and air hunger  don't  let up much until late in the evening, sometimes earlier in the evening but that's rare.

I would report good effects if I was having them. I know Zoloft worked before and was desperately hoping it would work again and ease the WD.  Nothing would please me more than to come on the site with better news.  

And of coarse I don't "like " taking zoloft. If I would have known this would happen,  I  likely would have stayed on it at my age.  But, I  didn't know this site existed,  made many mistakes in my taper and now I'm trying to get stable and get some kinda life back.  I'm sorry ,  I'm trying, and I appreciate your help. And I know you know this is hard,  but lately I feel like everyone (friends, family, spouse ) are beating up on me and non supportive.