Upnorth: reinstating

[Frogie]

10 hours ago, Upnorth said:

@Frogie @Altostrata @ChessieCat.

Do you ladies know if Breo Ellipta..: Fluticasone Forate /Vilanterol would work for my air hunger? It is a corticosteroid and I'm wondering if I would have a bad reaction because of my dysregulated nervous system.  I'm scared to try it. Have you heard of anyone using this? 

 

Is this a nasal spray Flonase? I think it is the same as the US, just a different generic name. If so, I doubt it would help. It is to treat allergies and stuffy noses. It gave me a headache when I used it for my allergies for 2 days. Anything with a steroid I would be leary with. If your air hunger is that bad, maybe you need to see your dr and explain the situation.

[OldDodgy]

@Upnorth

In the absence of a physical cause for air hunger I can only pass on my experience of involving a respiratory physiotherapist or I saw good results from our speech therapy experts. 
 

It’s a rubbish feeling and I hope you find a referral possible. 
 

OD 

[Ariel]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:25 AM, Upnorth said:

My air hunger dropped significantly and the muscle tension and anxiety also eased up. I almost felt calm and wasn't freaking out for no reason . The "crushing " feeling was also much less. 

 

Hi @Upnorth

I used to experience air hunger in the first few years of withdrawal. It was one of the more striking and mysterious symptoms and quite severe sometimes. Gradually the intensity lessened and there were fewer episodes. I don't remember the last time it happened. 

 

At the time I was getting air hunger I did not know I was in withdrawal. The way I managed the symptom was through acceptance and muscle relaxation techniques. I had learned earlier in life that anxiety can be experienced in the body as a contraction. I applied this way of thinking about it to the discomfort of air hunger (at the time I described it as feeling like, suddenly, all the air went out of a balloon. Like instant deflation. And then breathing felt like trying to pump air into a tire with a hole in it -- like I was breathing but nothing was happening, my breathing wasn't doing anything).  

 

When I had air hunger I would tune in to the sensations in my body -- tension, a feeling of heavy weight on my chest, feeling like I couldn't connect down into my diaphragm, etc. -- and try to just lean into feeling those sensations without judgment, without labeling. Then I would try to use that same mindful attention to breathe as calmly as I could and gently release any places where it felt like I was holding tension. Sometimes I would sit down and go limp and slump; sometimes I would lie down and just breathe. Sometimes it happened while I was out walking or exercising, in which case I would just slow way down or take a break. It always passed eventually. 

 

In my case what really made a difference was not reacting to the air hunger. If one worries or gets scared of the air hunger it can spiral and heighten the sensations, even leading to a full-blown panic attack. That is the reaction element, and it is possible to work on that. 

 

Today when I think back on it I view the air hunger in a subset of withdrawal-related nervous system dysregulation symptoms sometimes subjectively experienced as anxiety. That might explain some of your experience with anxiolytics bringing relief. What helped me a lot was not calling it anxiety but experiencing it with detachment as neutral physical sensations in my body. (Maybe that was only possible for me to do because I had no idea I was in withdrawal and thus was relatively free of stories about it.) 

 

By the way, after a few years of air hunger and shortness of breath and other such symptoms, I did eventually go get some lung, airway, breathing tests done. Everything came out fine. When I tried to explain my experience to doctors they were blank/disinterested. I suppose it's better to bore one's doctors than to become an object of their fascination. 

 

Anyway, no more air hunger! I don't remember the last time I had it, must be well over a year. 

Do your due diligence, get tested if you suspect anything might be seriously, structurally wrong.

If it turns out it's "just" withdrawal, don't worry. It gets better. 

 

In the meantime, Acknowledge - Accept - Float

 

Healing is happening all the time <3

A. 

[Moonpie]

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

. I suppose it's better to bore one's doctors than to become an object of their fascination.    So true! Will remember this! You made me smile!

 

[Upnorth]

6 hours ago, Frogie said:

Is this a nasal spray Flonase? I think it is the same as the US, just a different generic name. If so, I doubt it would help. It is to treat allergies and stuffy noses. It gave me a headache when I used it for my allergies for 2 days. Anything with a steroid I would be leary with. If your air hunger is that bad, maybe you need to see your dr and explain the situation.

@Frogie

It's a puffer/inhaler. It's a powder.  It  contains

corticosteroids and a beta agonist, vilanterol, which is supposed to relax the muscles around the airways. 

The Dr recommended it but after reading that it contains a steroid,  I'm not sure it would be a good idea. . 

That's why I was asking. .probably would not be a good thing to put into a sensitized nervous system?

I was hoping someone would have some input on this stuff.  

I know that when I take ativan ,  this calms down so it is probably chemical induced anxiety creating the air hunger.  

 

[Frogie]

@Upnorth

 

So it's like ProAir-HFA, an inhaler here is the US. They usually give that to you if you have bronchitis or asthma. It contains steroids to open the airway. I would stay away from steroids with your CNS. That's just my thought. 

 

You could be having good old anxiety and you just need to do some meditation and self care. That's the best thing for the system.

[OldDodgy]

Steroids are there to prevent constriction from allergy, asthma and obstructive airways issues but only by stopping them getting tight. 
Salbutamol etc actually reduce spasm if it occurs.

Neither would help in a situation of anxiety induced air hunger. 
If your doc has excluded airways disease then as @Frogie says you need to manage your breathing. 
 

If you Google air hunger physio there is a very good explanation from Cambridge university. 
 

OD

[Upnorth]

2 hours ago, Frogie said:

@Upnorth

 

So it's like ProAir-HFA, an inhaler here is the US. They usually give that to you if you have bronchitis or asthma. It contains steroids to open the airway. I would stay away from steroids with your CNS. That's just my thought. 

 

You could be having good old anxiety and you just need to do some meditation and self care. That's the best thing for the system.

@Frogie                 Thanks for taking the time to help me.  

I do have "some " mild copd.  It showed in a CT years ago but never was an issue until withdrawal.  Since wd ,  I just feel like I can't get enough air and is likely anxiety related because of the chemical dysregulation.  I guess it's a tell tale sign when you take ativan and it calms down.  Even the "dark thoughts " subside somewhat. 

 I just thought maybe the puffer would help but was unaware that it's a steroid. Not even sure why the Dr suggested it.  From what I've been reading and your input,  it sounds like steroids of any kind should be avoided. 

Just wish I could find some relief from the anxiety and panic. 

I do breathing exercises and try to keep my stress down but still have a tuff time. 

[Frogie]

@Upnorth

 

I was "diagnosed" with COPD years ago because I smoked for 40 years by an insurance company. I quit smoking 5  years ago.  But I don't have it after many tests. 

 

You could try a non-steroid one, there are many over the counter that you can research.

 

But if you research "air hunger" you'll come up with a lot of information that will help.

 

I know it's tough, but you can do this.

[Upnorth]

@Frogie 

Thanks for the help.  I guess you know what it's like then. It's been about 17 months since I smoked.  Hopefully things will approve. 

Do you have any recommendations for inhalers? I don't think I'll use the one with the corticosteroids,  just add to the problem. 

I did read the links you posted on my page a while ago about air hunger and looked on line as well. .thanks.  

I do find that when I take an ativan, the symptoms are easier to deal with and less troublesome. .

 

 

[Frogie]

@Upnorth

 

I don’t have any recommendations for over the counter stuff, you might google it and see what it comes up with.  In all honesty they probably won’t help much. 
 

But google “air hunger” and I’m sure there will be information there that would be useful.

 

Be careful with the Ativan. Without a running prescription you’ll become dependent on it quickly.

[Upnorth]

@Frogie

I received my results from a CT I had done lately and have been diagnosed with copd.  Guess this is part of my air hunger issue.  Do you have any suggestions.  I've been pretty ill lately and lots of nausea as well. I've read up on the different inhalers, any ideas would be welcomed. 

What did you do for your copd?

[Upnorth]

 

@Frogie

I think my copd may be a milder case .Other than the air hunger,  I don't have a cough or any excess fluid or sinus congestion. .

I think what you and alto suggested with the benzo would be better than the inhaler . The inhalers sound nasty and I know when I take an ativan, the majority of these issues subside.  

Thoughts? 

[OldDodgy]

@Upnorth

Hello again.  
I think I would go to the Canadian Thoracic Society website to learn about your COPD. 

There may be some helpful information there. 
With any lung disease it’s important not to be over sedated so you take deep breaths especially at night (personal experience). 

 

Wishing you well

 

OD

[Frogie]

7 hours ago, Upnorth said:

 

@Frogie

I think my copd may be a milder case .Other than the air hunger,  I don't have a cough or any excess fluid or sinus congestion. .

I think what you and alto suggested with the benzo would be better than the inhaler . The inhalers sound nasty and I know when I take an ativan, the majority of these issues subside.  

Thoughts? 

I don’t have any suggestions unfortunately. You can google and get as much information on copd that you can. Just remember the internet paints worse pictures than it can actually be. I did nothing for my copd because I don’t have any symptoms of it at all except air hunger once in a while and that’s from the Xanax. 

[Upnorth]

10 hours ago, Frogie said:

I don’t have any suggestions unfortunately. You can google and get as much information on copd that you can. Just remember the internet paints worse pictures than it can actually be. I did nothing for my copd because I don’t have any symptoms of it at all except air hunger once in a while and that’s from the Xanax. 

@Frogie

My symptoms are mainly the chronic  air hunger and nausea. I  don't have a cough but do feel I can't get enough air.  I haven't found anything that helps, other than,  of course, the ativan. 

 

[Frogie]

@Upnorth

 

I don't know of anything to get rid of the air hunger other than time. If it is that bad, maybe you should see a dr. I know you just had tests done but it all just takes time to heal.

[Upnorth]

On 5/29/2022 at 4:46 AM, Frogie said:

the Xanax. 

@Frogie

Are you using xanax on a regular basis?  Does it work well?   It seems for me that the only time I have a decent day is when I take 0.5 ativan.  

 

[ChessieCat]

Please note that I have not read through any of these posts so I don't know what they are suggesting (eg they might be suggesting to increase/change drugs which might not be something that SA would suggest).  But you might find some non drug techniques to help.

 

Do an internet search for the term:  benzo buddies air hunger

[Frogie]

9 hours ago, Upnorth said:

@Frogie

Are you using xanax on a regular basis?  Does it work well?   It seems for me that the only time I have a decent day is when I take 0.5 ativan.  

 

Like Alto and I said if you can get a running prescription you could try Ativan. But you will become dependent on it in about 2 weeks.

[Foxclover6]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:02 PM, Upnorth said:

@Frogie

I received my results from a CT I had done lately and have been diagnosed with copd.  Guess this is part of my air hunger issue.  Do you have any suggestions.  I've been pretty ill lately and lots of nausea as well. I've read up on the different inhalers, any ideas would be welcomed. 

What did you do for your copd?

Did they do a spirometry test? An xray doesn't confirm copd, atiavb regular use will only contribute to the air hunger long term just as the ssri withdrawl and dysregulation. I too have air hunger from having used both of these and it's been almost a year 

[Upnorth]

8 hours ago, Foxclover6 said:

    @Foxclover6d they do a spirometry test? An xray doesn't confirm copd, atiavb regular use will only contribute to the air hunger long term just as the ssri withdrawl and dysregulation. I too have air hunger from having used both of these and it's been almost a 

@Foxclover6 The only test done was a CT. Did you mean ativan? It's been 7 years since I had a spirometry and at the time the Dr said I was alright considering my age and that I smoked. I quit smoking 16 months ago because I thought it was creating the air hunger and didn't know at the time that I was in WD and having chemical induced anxiety. 

[Foxclover6]

13 hours ago, Upnorth said:

@Foxclover6 The only test done was a CT. Did you mean ativan? It's been 7 years since I had a spirometry and at the time the Dr said I was alright considering my age and that I smoked. I quit smoking 16 months ago because I thought it was creating the air hunger and didn't know at the time that I was in WD and having chemical induced anxiety. 

I still have air hunger too, I didn't reinstate , you're still below your original dose right ? For the ssri? I really think that is probably what it is, im.not a doctor, quitting smoking seems smart and things can heal. Sorry you're struggling, I am too.

[Upnorth]

On 6/1/2022 at 10:20 AM, Foxclover6 said:

e , you're still below your original dose right ? For the ssri? I really think that is probably what it is, 

@Foxclover6 

Yes,  I'm only at 3.0mg. A long ways from what I used to take.  I had hoped to stabilize but I don't think it has helped.  Maybe I should try to updose again.  Don't know what to do anymore.  I've been pretty sick lately,  nausea and air hunger are brutal. Feeling quite weak. 

Sorry you're stuggling as well. .

[Foxclover6]

2 hours ago, Upnorth said:

@Foxclover6 

Yes,  I'm only at 3.0mg. A long ways from what I used to take.  I had hoped to stabilize but I don't think it has helped.  Maybe I should try to updose again.  Don't know what to do anymore.  I've been pretty sick lately,  nausea and air hunger are brutal. Feeling quite weak. 

Sorry you're stuggling as well. .

How long you been at 3? Did you have nausea before you reinstated ? It's been a real nightmare for me,  I'm actually in shock,  I never knew it could be so bad. I wanted to reinstate but I felt that I was so bad I'd get worse,  probably would be semi better if I had

[Upnorth]

I've been at 3.0 for a couple months. Every time I tried to increase,  I would get sweating spells . I had nausea before RI but I think it got worse.  Hard to say cause I didn't keep notes before RI. 

Now most people are telling me I should go to rehab,  they don't get it.  I keep saying that if I could get my system stabilized,  I would be able to manage because it's the physical stuff that is causing the suffering.  

I know they all mean well but I don't think rehab would fix the chemical dysregulation. Everyone seems to think it's mind over matter. . frustrating. 

[Upnorth]

   @Frogie                        Another bad day,  lots of dark thoughts and pain and nausea.  Been having lots of dark thoughts lately ,  so fatigued and feeling weak. Heart rate is up. Probably doesn't help that my sleep has been terrible, never seem to get any rest. I wish I could have a window.  I wonder if the zoloft is contributing to the depression feelings or is it cause I'm fatigued, or both? 

I now I'm not alone in this and many people on this site are suffering as well. Just been feeling really alone lately and discouraged. Like so many others,  I just want my life back but wondering if it will happen. 

I  don't mean to be a downer but I'm feeling down and nobody to talk to, hard to get out of the hole. .

 

 

[Upnorth]

@Frogie

Hi frogie,  sorry to bother you.  Is it normal for my thinking to be all over the place with the WD? Been having dark thoughts and even some SI.  I have been pretty weak and  worn out lately,  could that contribute to the bad thoughts?  I've been reading lots of posts to find encouragement and trying to pull myself up but I am overwhelmed at the moment.   My sleep is poor, maybe 2 hours and  irritability is high and I'm having a hard time calming down. Do you think the zoloft is doing this? 

I've taken 5 ativan in the last 3 weeks,  0.5 mg.  Used them as a rescue dose because I have had some horrific days.  I know you said to be careful but I'm hoping this is okay.  

 I have some clonazepam from my psych Dr but I'm unsure about taking any.

 Can they be mixed or stick to one kind.  

  Thanks for helping me and I apologize, just feel depleted lately and no one to turn to. 

[Believer]

Hi Upnorth,

I can’t advise you on the Ativan or clonozapam, but I can say that I have dark thoughts and some SI. I am still tapering Zoloft, currently at 3.54mgs. 
 

Is there anything you can do to distract yourself during the rough spots? Are you getting in any walking or doing something outside?

 

I am so sorry you’re dealing with this, if we only knew years ago what we know now, eh?

 

Hang in there.

 

Believer

[OldDodgy]

Hi @Upnorth

 

I am sure @Frogie will have a view on this.  
 

This is my take on it. 
You are using Ativan rescue very sparingly after her advice. It has a short half life. 
 

Klon has a much longer half life and can stick around for days.  This means your Gaba receptors would be shut for longer periods of time and I wonder if that would make it more difficult to stop. ? 
 

My neighbour took Klon and eight weeks later still has has awful panics, though I think her psych stopped it rather quickly ! 
 

OD 

Edited June 5, 2022 by OldDodgy
Typo

[Frogie]

@Upnorth

 

These thoughts and feelings are very normal. Just try to distract.

 

Please don't mix the Ativan with the Clonazepam. You will end up in a real mess. If you want to continue taking the Ativan you need to obtain a prescription. Even taking it 2-3 times a week you can become dependent on it.

[Greatful]

@Upnorth

I am so sorry you have to go through this....What you are asking as far as thoughts and emotions- they are very typical with WD and these drugs...

I know those dark thoughts are scary..  I often go through them ....Can you remind yourself that these are just thoughts and they can't hurt you...Very uncomfortable--not to say the least scary--but somehow they pass or at least get less intense....I guess what I am saying is try not fight them--Say it's okay- I can feel this way--these are just thoughts that come when  my brain is not working quite right... then as Believer said try and distract as much as you can-but also accept that you will feel low mood as you are doing it.. but hopefully the time will go by a little faster and you won't be putting all your attention on how you feel.....  sometimes we fight everything and try to feel a certain way, better, but we can feel less pain if we just let ourselves feel the way we do at any given time- if we are sad, it's okay to be  sad, if we are anxious, it's okay to be  anxious, if we are feeling fatigue, angry, withdrawn, then that's okay too....These all pass with time....

 

I can so relate to feeling so alone- can you try to remind yourself that you are not alone there are many on SA who are walking this journey with you.  Look to yourself for comfort...Find that love towards yourself and know that  it will always be with you....

 

Each day that goes by you are one day closer to healing from these drugs. 

 

You are not alone upnorth😊

[Upnorth]

Thanks everyone,  nice to know there are people who care and understand. 

I have a lot of physical pain and I think it wears a person out and effects my thoughts. The lack of sleep doesn't help and my anxiety and irritability have been really high and I keep trying to calm down but can't seem to get control,  probably the chemical dysregulation. 

That's why I keep thinking about the ativan,  it usually levels me out and clears my thinking.  I know it's not the answer but I often feel so overwhelmed.  All the things that never bothered me  before are now hypersensitive, and I'm fatigued. The air hunger is driving me nuts,  even though I do so many exercises for it. 

Just wish I could have a window and get a break from this suffering,  so hard to move forward when the days just repeat. Not a good attitude,  I know, but I  feel stuck in a hole. 

I keep wondering if I should taper my reinstatement and if the zoloft is part of this? 

[Upnorth]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:14 AM, Greatful said:

On 6/5/2022 at 8:14 AM, Greatful said:

these are just thoughts that come when  my brain is not working quite right...

   @Greatful

@Greatful  

This is the understatement of the year. I can't believe how much my brain is not working the way it used to. 

Simple daily things and decisions are such a struggle. I used to drive truck for a living and would spend 12 hours or more behind the wheel,  hauling logs in some adverse conditions.  Never had any issues and enjoyed my work and the challenges,  now I have a tuff time driving uptown to get my mail. So hard to except what has happened and the physical ability to do much. Hard to believe that the dysregulated nervous system can effect so much. 

I am so frustrated, mad, depressed, sad and so many other things.  It's hard to think that things will improve when windows are so rare and I feel over powered by the agitation. I just wish I could stabilize and start healing.  

Just once I'd like to come on here with good news.

So worn out, I guess the fatigue is getting the upper hand. 

 

[Greatful]

@Upnorth

My heart goes out to you...What you are describing is so familiar to me.  How could this be happening? How can those pills cause such dysfunction in our brains and body.  Sadly that's the way it is..  I hope some day soon this will be know to the whole world.  We are the genie pigs, the  really study of how these drugs work and effect us... not the 4-12 week trials big pharma has done...Even those people have had to drop out because of side affects....By the way they are not side affects (fancy term ) these are the  actual affects of our bodies not accepting the drug.  

 

Have you ever looked up Baylissa Frederick's website? https://mccare.org/

She has a ton of information, and  helpful tools.  Go to resources and then How to use this Website...Lot's of things to click on for help..

As Bayliss say's you can heal..  She did from Benzos. 

 

Remember to be kind to yourself. You are doing amazing.  Only those of us that are or have gone through this can know how isolating and hard this is.

Remember you are not alone. It may feel like it, but there are many walking the same pathway as you..  Hold on to us and we all can move towards healing from our temporary chemical brain injury.

 

 

 

 

[Upnorth]

@Greatful

Thanks.  Really bad day today. Nausea is off the chart.  Hard to function like this,  so distressing. Just wanna ball my eyes out. Bad headache as well. 

Tried to look at the website but it keeps saying it's unsafe. Have to try something different I guess.