54fiftyfour: trazodone WD

[54fiftyfour]

Hi,

 

I just wanted to give a brief update and have, if possible, some advice for an already discussed problem, but still on the table.

 

First of all, I was able, over the summer,  to completely eliminate the morning dose and found that, by tapering much more slowly (about 0.0005 per day), my symptoms are slightly more manageable. I don't want to be misunderstood: I'm still very sick, I live with paralyzing anxiety, great despair, suicidal depression and a lot of further symptoms, but I manage not to spend all my days in bed and go to work regularly. I'm a little bit more functional and I'm taking 0,2865 mg. of clonazepam at 21.00 now.

 

Second, there is another really terrible side effect of clonazepam for me: it affects my pudendal nerve. Every time I take it, I feel annoying vibrations in the pelvic area and, every day, unbearable pain until the evening. It is an authentic self-castration due to the consequent effects on the genital sphere. I cannot continue like this, both due to the physical disability (difficulty sitting and walking) and the sexual disability, as well as the adjuntive and strong depression caused by this problem.

 

I'm sure these effects are from clonazepam. Since taking it, the pudendal nerve pain has severely worsened and is increasingly persistent. Me and Shep, we have often discussed the risks of switching to Valium, but what else could I do to put an end to this devastating problem? I know a medication change could be very risky, but I can't go forward with the Rivotril. It interacts directly with serotonin receptors and worsens my already severe PSSD, as well as causing unbearable pain. What else can I do?

 

Please help. Thank you.

 

 

[Catina7]

4 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

my symptoms are slightly more manageable

 

It was nice to hear from you @54fiftyfour.  I know you're still having issues, but to know that you have had a tiny improvement to where you can at least work is good news.

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

Yes, thank you. However I don't know how to manage the terrible effect of clonazepam on my pudendal nerve. Pain is unmanageable. I know that many people who try to switch a benzo, expecially if already destabilized, get a lot of troubles, but I can't bear this pain in my pelvic area. What can I do?

[Catina7]

7 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Yes, thank you. However I don't know how to manage the terrible effect of clonazepam on my pudendal nerve. Pain is unmanageable. I know that many people who try to switch a benzo, expecially if already destabilized, get a lot of troubles, but I can't bear this pain in my pelvic area. What can I do?

 

Unfortunately, I don't have enough experience to answer your question.  Hopefully one of the mods can contribute their input when they get a chance.  I'm sorry you're dealing with such awful pain.  

[54fiftyfour]

Shep, please, any comment or advice about my situation? 

[Shep]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:19 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

by tapering much more slowly (about 0.0005 per day), my symptoms are slightly more manageable.

 

Sounds like tapering slowly is helpful. 

 

On 9/27/2023 at 8:19 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

I'm sure these effects are from clonazepam. Since taking it, the pudendal nerve pain has severely worsened and is increasingly persistent.

 

If the pain is getting worse on less of the drug, it may not be a side effect. Please work with your doctor. 

[54fiftyfour]

I'm stuck on the dose of 0,28 at night since two months and my days are a nightmare. I can't breathe, my muscle contractions are strong and I feel very agitated and depressed. I have moments of pure akathisia and feel as if, from a moment to the next, I can have a panic attack or delirium. I rationally understand that, around me, the world is wonderful, but I can't feel any positive emotion, only a strong fear and sufference.

 

I don't know what to do. If I take the morning dose again, I start to feel more depressed than I already am. I also don't know if these are interdose symptoms, becouse I always felt very ill even before, when I was taking the morning dose. I'm probably too dysregulated and my system is not able to repair anymore.

 

Please Shep, help me. Should I increase my night dose after being constant at 0,28 for two months? I wouldn't, but I'm desperate. I love life, but I'm suffering a lot. I feel imprisoned and without any hope.

[54fiftyfour]

Sorry, I have to correct. I'm on 0,28 since one month (October, 8). I had to change my signature information. 

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I'm stuck on the dose of 0,28 at night since two months and my days are a nightmare. I can't breathe, my muscle contractions are strong and I feel very agitated and depressed. I have moments of pure akathisia and feel as if, from a moment to the next, I can have a panic attack or delirium. I rationally understand that, around me, the world is wonderful, but I can't feel any positive emotion, only a strong fear and sufference.

 

I don't know what to do. If I take the morning dose again, I start to feel more depressed than I already am. I also don't know if these are interdose symptoms, becouse I always felt very ill even before, when I was taking the morning dose. I'm probably too dysregulated and my system is not able to repair anymore.

 

Please Shep, help me. Should I increase my night dose after being constant at 0,28 for two months? I wouldn't, but I'm desperate. I love life, but I'm suffering a lot. I feel imprisoned and without any hope.

 

I'm so sorry for what you're dealing with @54fiftyfour.  Hopefully @Shep can give you some direction when she is able to.  I know how hard it can be when you don't know what to do.  Have you been keeping a very detailed symptom journal each day?  Sometimes that can help pinpoint where the problems are coming from.  

 

Let your love for life keep propelling you forward to not give up.  Many people have healed from similar horrendous situations.  Perhaps you can search for members who have gone through something similar.  I don't think anyone is beyond help or repair.  Hang in there!

 

Big Hugs,

Catina ❤️

[54fiftyfour]

Hi @Shep,

 

just a tag to know if you can advice me about the idea to increase my night dose, or wait at 0,28 mg.

Sorry for disturb, it's all so difficult...

[LotusRising]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:34 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

I also don't know if these are interdose symptoms,

Hi @54fiftyfour,

 

It's not immediately clear to me in your signature if you're dosing two times a day of the clonazepam? Could you please update your signature.

 

Why do you want to increase your dose? 

[54fiftyfour]

Hi,

It's updated. I gradually eliminated a morning dose of 0,2 mg. Maybe I'm suffering also for this, now. "Interdose symptoms" is not the correct definition, you're right.

[54fiftyfour]

I had a PET scan and today I received the results. They indicate a cortical hypometabolism in two brain locations:

1 - the bilateral mesial frontal site;
2 - the left dorsal-lateral prefrontal site.

 

Basically, I have an altered metabolism in my brain. I spoke with a neurologist right away and he told me this means that, in those two areas, neuronal activity is lacking.

 

A psychiatrist mentioned the possibility of carrying out deep or superficial electrical stimulation of the brain. I have a lot of doubts, but I'm suffering so deeply...

 

 

 

[Catina7]

55 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I had a PET scan and today I received the results. They indicate a cortical hypometabolism in two brain locations:

1 - the bilateral mesial frontal site;
2 - the left dorsal-lateral prefrontal site.

 

Basically, I have an altered metabolism in my brain. I spoke with a neurologist right away and he told me this means that, in those two areas, neuronal activity is lacking.

 

A psychiatrist mentioned the possibility of carrying out deep or superficial electrical stimulation of the brain. I have a lot of doubts, but I'm suffering so deeply...

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you're having these issues.  There is a topic thread about ECT that you may want to read over.  I hope it helps!

 

ECT (Electroconvulsive Therapy)

[54fiftyfour]

Depression has reached an unsustainable point. Clonazepam, since I started taking it, has been heavily responsible for this, but I can't stop it due to my hypersensitivity and destabilized neurological picture. I don't know how to fight this incredible depression. I'm close to suicide. I wanted to try TMS or TDCS, not ECT. I searched in the forum, but didn't find much. Can anyone help me?

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Depression has reached an unsustainable point. Clonazepam, since I started taking it, has been heavily responsible for this, but I can't stop it due to my hypersensitivity and destabilized neurological picture. I don't know how to fight this incredible depression. I'm close to suicide. I wanted to try TMS or TDCS, not ECT. I searched in the forum, but didn't find much. Can anyone help me?

 

I'm so sorry that your depression has become unbearable @54fiftyfour.  I'm not sure if you've read the thread yet about TMS, but I'm including it just in case.  Just like with any treatment, something that helps one person may not help another.  

 

What is your diet like?  And are you taking any over-the-counter supplements, herbs, or medicines?  

 

TMS

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

I have a paleo diet with rice. No gluten and no supplements.

[54fiftyfour]

For a few days now, in addition to the devastating symptoms of depression, I have been experiencing strong muscle contractions in my legs and buttocks. They force me to lean forward or arch while sitting or lying down. I can't control my muscle movements. All this is accompanied by shortness of breath, moaning and great agitation, anxiety and mental confusion. Has anyone experienced these symptoms before? If yes, can you tell me if they reduce or go away? I'm afraid that clonazepam has made me epileptic. Please, help. 

[LotusRising]

@54fiftyfour

 

Unfortunately, these are very common symptoms when tapering a benzo. I've experienced similar muscle contractions for quite some time, all over my body. I can tell you that yes, it does get better with time. What are you doing for movement right now? If I could stress the importance of anything, it would be movement - light walking, yin yoga, anything that keeps your muscles moving in range of motion. Have you considered physiotherapy or massage? These have been a lifesaver for me, along with usual things for muscles like epsom salt baths (if you can tolerate), heating pad.

[54fiftyfour]

Lotus,

 

my problem is the whole situation, which inhibits every possibility of action (physiotherapy, yoga, massage, etc.). I have akathisia, terror and comatose depression and often I'm not able to walk and must stay at home. I can't breathe all the day. Now there are these terrible symptoms of muscle contractions and spams, they are very strong. I don't know if your ones were/are so intense and frequent. I think that this depends from my global dysregulation, but overall from clonazepam withdrawal. Rivotril is very, very addictive and I fear that it is not possible to taper.

[LotusRising]

Yes, I can relate. There was a time when it was difficult for me to leave the house as well, for many reasons. My muscles felt they had turned to stone at times. It was very difficult, but it did pass thankfully. I expect it will for you too, in time. I only want to encourage you to keep mobilizing yourself, since not doing so could make things worse.

[54fiftyfour]

Guys,

 

Clonazepam is literally killing me. I'm holding 0,28 mg., but I am not able to stand, to breathe and to think. My pudendal nerve is exploding. Even writing this message is very complicate. I alternate these symptoms with akathisia, strong anxiety and agitation, terror, muscle convulsions, tremors, electrical shock, zero libido and so on. There is no peace.

 

My nerves are destroyed. I had a nuclear magnetic resonance and the results indicates a strong hyperintensity of nervous signal and an evident condition of neurogen sufference.

 

It's not possible to survive. I would stop to take this drug becouse it is killing me, but I can't becouse it's sure I will go into a state of psychosis, fatal convulsions and permanent akhatisia. Even to change it with another benzo would be a big risk, but I'm near to suicide and can't go forward in this state.

 

Psychiatrists suggest to change it and change with an anti-psychotic and antidepressants. I feel to be "imprisoned".

 

I there people in the same situation there? What have they done? What could I do?

[54fiftyfour]

Any feedback? Any people who was in my same situation and has found some sort of solution to feel just a little better?

[LotusRising]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:33 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

Psychiatrists suggest to change it and change with an anti-psychotic and antidepressants. I feel to be "imprisoned".

 

Personally, I don't think trying new medication will correct any of the symptoms you already have.

 

I can relate to what you're experiencing, and all I can tell you is that it takes time to heal. Much more time than we would like. You just need to keep going any way that you can. What is your support system like? Do you have a partner, children?

 

Your nerves will heal. Do you get outside at all? What coping skills are you using?

[54fiftyfour]

I have no partner, only my old parents. They are destroyed in seeing me so sick. Support is only for cooking and a place for sleeping. Before the adverse reaction, I was living, sleeping and cooking alone in my house. 

 

I get outside only when akhatisia or other symptoms are not so strong, but I can not enjoy for nothing.

 

I have no coping strategies. The only one is to try to concentrate on my job, when possible.

 

The main problem is the addiction from clonazepam. I'm sure I will not be able to taper it, but it is killing me. What about a crossover with Valium? I think it would be dangerous, but this situation is too.

[54fiftyfour]

Lotus, any reply? Were you on clinazepam, too? How was your experience?

[54fiftyfour]

I feel too, too depressed. When I'm not in a state of akathisia and convulsions, I'm in a state of total coma. I'm afraid to lose my job. Why should I be obliged to continue to take this poison (clonazepam), if it is so dangerous for my life? Realistically, I don't think that my nervous system will be able to heal after this heavy damage.

[LotusRising]

@54fiftyfour

 

Yes, I was on clonazepam after a direct switch from ativan. My taper was incredibly difficult and to be blunt, there were days I didn't want to be around. I do know, however, that these feelings were a result of the drug/tapering process. I never felt this way a day in my life prior to psych drugs and now that the worst of the physical symptoms seem to be over, I don't feel like this anymore.

 

When I say I can relate to what you're experiencing, I mean it. But also, it does get better!!

 

2 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Why should I be obliged to continue to take this poison (clonazepam), if it is so dangerous for my life?

 

Because there is a life to return to on the other side of this. What made you happy before? What do you long to do when you're feeling better? What coping skills can you implement to get through the days? I listened to Baylissa Frederick a lot - have you tried any of her meditations? 

 

Baylissa Evening Meditation - I listened to this every single night for many months. There is always a reason to keep going, but you will need to dig deeper than you ever have to get through this.

 

On 12/15/2023 at 2:32 PM, 54fiftyfour said:

What about a crossover with Valium? I think it would be dangerous, but this situation is too.

 

There is no magic bullet here. I don't know that a crossover to valium will help you. There are many anecdotal stories of worsening depression on valium, and there is always a risk of not tolerating the crossover, or further destabilizing your nervous system. 

 

4 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Realistically, I don't think that my nervous system will be able to heal after this heavy damage.

 

I disagree with this. There is every reason to believe your nervous system will return to homeostasis. It just takes a lot longer than we want or need it to. I remember thinking the same thing. I couldn't believe and didn't believe that I would come back from how terrible I felt, but I can assure you that I am now a functioning human, and participate in life again. I'm not 100%, but I hold hope that I will be one day and every time a negative thought comes into my head, I dismiss it and continue on. Have you tried this?

 

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

@LotusRising

 

How much was your starting dose of clonazepam? And how much time did you need? I can't understand it from your signature.

 

Have you experimented akathisia, extreme anxiety, panic attacks, comatose depression, terrible fatigue, electric shocks, burning skin, convulsions and cramps, derealization, anhedonia, inability to think and so on?

 

Do you know what is my great problem that probably you didn't have? Before this last crash I was already suffering from post-finasteride syndrome and PSSD since 15 years, even if symptoms had been reduced in 2009 after a TRT of six weeks and let me have an accettable quality of life. If you want, you can read my first post. What would I say? That my nervous system was already permanently damaged and the absurd idea to take trazodone and then clonazepam has given the final blow. 

 

[LotusRising]

36 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

How much was your starting dose of clonazepam? And how much time did you need? I can't understand it from your signature.

 

I started at 1.5mg ativan, but was direct switched to clonazepam. I ended up tapering from 0.25mg clonazepam, which is a dose decrease of over 50% (I was unaware of equivalencies at the time). I was very destabilized, but continued tapering for about 18 months. By the time my brain was functioning properly again, I was too far into my taper to try to stabilize and updosing was not an option for me. 

 

40 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Have you experimented akathisia, extreme anxiety, panic attacks, comatose depression, terrible fatigue, electric shocks, burning skin, convulsions and cramps, derealization, anhedonia, inability to think and so on?

 

Yes, I experienced all of the above, except for convulsions. 

[54fiftyfour]

@LotusRising

 

What do you mean for "by the time my brain was functioning properly again?". During the taper? At which dose? And what symptoms were progressively going away or remaining?

[LotusRising]

@54fiftyfour

 

I didn't feel like my brain was functioning at full capacity - my cognitive function was poor. I had difficulty understanding what was happening for a short period of time. This was right at the start of my taper when I was already very destabilized from a failed buspar reinstatement.

 

My remaining symptoms are physical - muscle/nerve related and a lot of fatigue. I had a lot of nerve pain throughout my taper, but this has reduced considerably. My muscles are still locked up in some areas, but physio, massage and acupuncture seem to be helping with this.

 

 

[Giuly88]

16 hours ago, LotusRising said:

@54fiftyfour

 

I didn't feel like my brain was functioning at full capacity - my cognitive function was poor. I had difficulty understanding what was happening for a short period of time. This was right at the start of my taper when I was already very destabilized from a failed buspar reinstatement.

 

My remaining symptoms are physical - muscle/nerve related and a lot of fatigue. I had a lot of nerve pain throughout my taper, but this has reduced considerably. My muscles are still locked up in some areas, but physio, massage and acupuncture seem to be helping with this.

 

 

❤️ I can second this, same for me.

[54fiftyfour]

Is there anybody in this forum who has had or have some experience with some withdrawal coach? Someone recommended me Jennifer Leigh. Do you have an opinion on her or other coach? Can they be really useful?

[54fiftyfour]

Just an update about clonazepam use. I'm currently tapering 0,0001 or 0,0002 mg. per day, but my symptoms are unbearable. I'm currently on 0,2730 mg. Until mid-December I held stable at 0,28, but I was still feeling very ill.

 

I believe that I will never reach a baseline becouse my system is very, very damaged and disregulated. The damage of serotoninergic will never go away and also clonazepam acts directly as an agonist of serotonin receptors. I believe this is a further obstacle factor.

 

I force myself to go to work, but it's an hell. I can't breathe, I'm paralized by extreme anxiety, panic and fatigue/weakness and I'm dramatically depressed. Anhedonia is terrible and akhatisia is around the corner every minute. My pudendal nerve is destroyed. Some day I'm not able to walk.

 

I remember that testosterone was very helpful after my first persistent adverse reactions to finasteride and SSRIs in 2009. It sent away a lot of my symptoms and restored  a good part of my nerves' health. However, when I tried it again after this second adverse reaction, it gave me akhatisia after one day of temporary improvement.

 

I don't know what to do now. Continuing my agony with clonazepam taper is too devastating, even if I hold the same dose. Forward at this rate, it will take seven years to remove it all, if things goes well. And I will always feel very ill and sick.

 

Has anyone benefited from NAD+ IV during taper? Or is it there a risk that it will furterly destabilize my poor system?

 

Please, help.

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Has anyone benefited from NAD+ IV during taper?

 

I have wondered about this myself.  There was one member that did have some success with it, but they never responded back to my inquiry about it.  I think it's primarily used to help people detox from drugs and alcohol.

 

If you do a search of "NAD" on the site, here are the results:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=nad&quick=1

 

There is a topic about it, but there is not very much information to glean from it:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/6222-nicotinamide-adenine-dinucleotide-nad/

 

I'm sure it's probably like any other treatment out there - it might work for some but not for others.