54fiftyfour: trazodone WD

[54fiftyfour]

5.00 - Wake up completely powerless, with sagging face skin, strong depression, derealization and unable to stand

6.00 - Strong breathlessness throughout all the day untill night

8.00 - Breakfast with fruit, egg end herbal tea (cherry, cinnamon, hibiscus, blackberry, rosehip and licorice hoot)

10.00 - Taking 0,075 mg. of clonazepam and go to work

10.30 - Anxiety, agitation, depression, derealization

12.30 - Lunch

17.00 - Mental confusion, hopeless and exhaustion

18.30 - Come back from work

19.20 - Dinner

21.00 - Go to walk with breathlessness and depression and derealization

22.00 - Taking 0,42 mg. of clonazepam and go to sleep, but unable to fall asleep

24.00 - Very disturbed sleep untill 3.00 o'clock and then don't sleep anymore for all night

8.00 - Getting out of bed with headhache, agitation and depression

 

20 hours ago, Shep said:

I know you're struggling, but 5 hours of continuous sleep is actually quite good for someone going through benzo withdrawal

 

Last night, as you can read, I didn't sleep. Clonazepam doesn't always work. My question is: the more I reduce clonazepam, the more I will have insomnia for a long period of time.

 

20 hours ago, Shep said:

Are you able to take a few days off from work? Does your job offer paid vacation or sick days? If so, you may want to schedule some time off so you can rest. 

 

 Yes, I could stay at home with paid vacation, if I wanted, but this depresses me even more. I'm not able to rest, staring at the ceiling wall. I get crazier than I am.

[54fiftyfour]

Yesterday I had very severe difficulty in breathing throughout all the day. It's not the first time. What does it mean?

[Shep]

2 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

My question is: the more I reduce clonazepam, the more I will have insomnia for a long period of time.

 

If your symptoms are getting worse the more you reduce it, you're dealing with withdrawal and not a side effect. 

 

Holding and letting your nervous system rest would be a good idea right now. 

 

2 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Yesterday I had very severe difficulty in breathing throughout all the day. It's not the first time. What does it mean?

 

It means you're tapering too fast, 54. This type of breathing problem is often called "air hunger," which is common with benzo withdrawal. The scientific term is dyspnea. Some tips for handling air hunger:

 

Managing Shortness of Breath video (5 minutes)

 

Managing an acute episode of shortness of breath video (6 minutes)

 

[LotusRising]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:48 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

Yesterday I had very severe difficulty in breathing throughout all the day. It's not the first time. What does it mean?

Air hunger is a very common symptom during benzo withdrawal. It gets less intense and more sporadic over time. I'm so used to it coming and going that most of the time I can just go about my day, knowing it will pass. It will pass for you too.  

[54fiftyfour]

Thank you, I need to hope you're right.

[HugHK]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:13 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

Thank you, I need to hope you're right.

 

How long has it been going on for you? it appeared about 6 weeks ago for me

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

It happens from when I begun to have trazodone WD symptoms, but it is stronger the more I taper clonazepam. Not every day is very strong, intensity can vary.

[54fiftyfour]

Sorry, just a sad update.

 

I'm continuing with clonazepam taper, but it's terrible. My problem is that I feel I have no choice than pursueing, becouse this drug is damaging me. There are a lot of symptoms that come from it and not from trazodone WD: weak and aching muscle of legs, difficulty speaking and coordinating movements, depression, derealization, worsening of sexual side effects, burning skin and so on. The longer I take Rivotril, the more my symptoms become intense. 

 

I'm suffering too much, whatever I do and far beyond my ability to bear. I no longer feel human. My nervous system is completely destabilized. The tapering process causes or accentuates my paralizing anxiety, palpitations, breathlesness, mental confusion, depression and so on.

 

A very terrible side is anhedonia. No pleasure or good emotions for anything. In the past I was very outgoing and wellknown in my country, full of cultural and intellectual interests, with a lovable job, an active political and public role and a lot of personal relationships. Now I find it hard to leave my parents' house. It seems to me like a I had a strong brain injury from which it's impossible to recover.

 

In the last two months, I tapered 10% after never exceeding 5% in the two months before. I'm trying them all. Morning dose is "only" 0,05 mg. now and I don't know if it can cause interdose symptoms. I don't understand how, if and when my neural connections can improve. 

 

Altostrada suffered for ten years, other people forever. I try to take Shep's advice about not to think it will be the same for me, but facts, every day, prove me the countrary. How can I get rid of clonazepam safely? It's destroying me. Please, give me some word of comment.

[54fiftyfour]

My anxiety is unbearable today. My legs are weak and tremble since I reached the eight month of clonazepam. Cognitive problems and depression are increasing while I take it. What should I do? Stop tapering and continue to destroy my CNS? I was on 0,7 mg./day, now I am at 0,4 mg. Please Shep or Altostrata, help me.

[Shep]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:58 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

In the last two months, I tapered 10% after never exceeding 5% in the two months before.

 

23 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

My anxiety is unbearable today. My legs are weak and tremble since I reached the eight month of clonazepam.

 

It looks like your increased taper speed from 5% to 10% may be catching up to you, 54.

 

You may want to hold for awhile and then when you do resume, go back to the 5% reduction rate. 

[54fiftyfour]

I've gotten to the point where I can no longer leave my house to go to work. Clonazepam has aggravated my sexual dysfunctions, depression and anhedonia at the maximum level, while anxiety and brethlessness are daily travel companions. I completely destroyed my life.

 

On 3/24/2023 at 11:05 AM, Shep said:

You may want to hold for awhile and then when you do resume, go back to the 5% reduction rate. 

 

Shep, I have great difficulties to keep stable the clonazepam dosage, becouse I understand how bad this drug make me feel. It worses a lot my mental and physical conditions. At the same time, I suffer from all the benzo's symptoms WD and don't really see how I can be successful in my taper. Is there nothing which can help with this problem? I'm taking Omega 3 Fish Oil, but it's like tickling a little my symptoms.

 

Second question: are there people who can never get free from a benzo? I mean, may be my situation is now so compromised (GABA receptors, etc.) that I will need this drug forever, even if it makes me feel so horrible.

 

Thank you.

[Shep]

@54fiftyfour When did you make your last reduction? How much did you reduce? Please update your signature. A direct link is here:

 

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

[54fiftyfour]

My signature is now updated. 

[54fiftyfour]

February, 27 - March, 3 (5 days😞 0,06 at 10.00 + 0,37 at 22.00 (total 0,43 mg. per day)

March, 4 - March 10 (7 days😞 0,06 at 10.00 + 0,36 at 22.00 (total 0,42 mg. per day)

March, 11 - March 19 (9 days😞 0,05 at 10.00 + 0,35 at 22.00 (total 0,40 mg. per day)

March, 20 - March 29 (10 days): 0,05 at 10.00 + 0,34 at 22.00 (total 0,39 mg. per day)

 

Total monthly reduction: -12,4% (from 0,43 mg. to 0,39 mg. per day)

 

March, 30 - April, 11 (13 days) 0,05 at 10.00 + 0,33 at 22.00 (total 0,38 mg. per day)

April, 12 - Today: 0,05 at 10.00 + 0,32 at 22.00 (total 0,37 mg. per day)

 

Total reduction from March, 11 to April, 11 (34 days😞-7,5% (from 0,40 mg. to 0,37 mg. per day)

 

I repeat that I can not tolerate clonazepam. It makes me suicidal day by day. This is the reason why I can't stop tapering, but I understand I'm not able to live with all this anxiety, insomnia, depression, derealization, total sexual dysfunction, etc. It's a not human torture.

 

I repeat my questions: is it possible that no substance can help to tolerate the terrible benzo's WD symptoms? Some doctor is proposing me Gabapentin, some other an antypsychotic. At this point, is it worth taking some risk? Nothing else?

 

Second question: are there people who can never get free from a benzo? Am I doomed to suffer like a beast forever?

 

Please, answere me. I would be grateful.

[Shep]

3 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

My signature is now updated. 

 

Did you click on the "save" button after you updated your signature? There's nothing in your signature for 2023 - it stops at April 12, 2022. 

 

But we can use what you posted above to sort this out. 

 

57 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I repeat my questions: is it possible that no substance can help to tolerate the terrible benzo's WD symptoms? Some doctor is proposing me Gabapentin, some other an antypsychotic. At this point, is it worth taking some risk? Nothing else?

 

Second question: are there people who can never get free from a benzo? Am I doomed to suffer like a beast forever?

 

Please, answere me. I would be grateful.

 

54, you know what we're going to say - you are tapering too fast. What you just posted:

 

57 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Total monthly reduction: -12,4% (from 0,43 mg. to 0,39 mg. per day)

 

This is too fast.

 

And you just made another reduction, even though you're wanting to add in other psychiatric drugs. 

 

This has been our advice for months:

 

On 9/30/2022 at 7:05 AM, Shep said:

You had stabilized and only started having problems after you made another reduction. This means you're tapering too fast for your nervous system to handle.

 

I would go into a very long hold and see if you can get back to a stronger baseline before tapering again. You may even want to updose a slight amount. It's safe to updose a benzo within 2 - 4 weeks of a reduction. 

 

And then do a micro-taper of 5% or less a month. That 10% reduction was likely just too much for your nervous system to handle. 

 

On 1/22/2023 at 1:36 PM, Altostrata said:

My guess is you've been tapering too fast, and you have withdrawal symptoms, which you mistake for adverse drug effects.

 

On 1/26/2023 at 6:35 AM, Shep said:

It means you're tapering too fast, 54.

 

[54fiftyfour]

On 4/14/2023 at 12:27 PM, Shep said:

You had stabilized and only started having problems after you made another reduction. This means you're tapering too fast for your nervous system to handle.

 

Shep, thank you for the answere and your patience in supporting people around this forum, including me. I have to say, however, that, in this last year, I've never "stabilized" and was always in very serious trouble with the mix between prolonged trazodone WD symptoms and clonazepam side effects. The latter are prevalent now.

 

 

On 4/14/2023 at 12:27 PM, Shep said:

My guess is you've been tapering too fast, and you have withdrawal symptoms, which you mistake for adverse drug effects.

 

In particular, I don't totally agree with what Altostrata supposed (see above). I explain why. Since the first Rivotril pill, I clearly experienced strong symptoms of depression and fatigue. At that time, I was not tapering and I haven't done any reduction for four months. I've been a stupid to continue to take it, but my state of confusion was very high and I was not able to decide whato to do. In that period, depression increased along with derealization and other paradoxical reactions from clonazepam.

 

Now you tell me again that I'm tapering too fast. Ok, that's may be true, but I just would to point out that, even stabilizing the dose, my depression will remain unbearable (it's like a coma) and I will feel very, very anhedonic, desperate and suicidal. This puts my life in danger. I think I'm in a vicious circle and I know that I'm not the only one.

 

On 4/14/2023 at 12:27 PM, Shep said:

you're wanting to add in other psychiatric drugs

 

I don't want to add further psychiatric drugs, I'm just quoting what psychiatrists and other doctors propose me. This is the reason for which I was asking if there is at least any supplement that can help to bear benzo WD. I tried magnesium and Omega 3 Fish Oil, but they did nothing to help for me. I'm very afraid to be hospitalized, suffer even more and lose my clarity of mind forever.

 

I would have a second question: are there people who can never get free from a benzo, simply becouse their nervous system don't allow to taper?

 

[Shep]

40 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I would have a second question: are there people who can never get free from a benzo, simply becouse their nervous system don't allow to taper?

 

 

I don't know. I do know that people go on these drugs at young ages, stay on them for decades and decades, and never even try to get off them. Many of them are sick over time because of the effects on their cognitive skills and the toll it takes on the mind/body, but they don't make the connection of what we know here - your drug may be your problem. 

 

The number of people who come to this site and don't get off them is unknown because they eventually stop posting. But most people stop posting - this site (and all of the other withdrawal sites) wouldn't be able to exist long term if everyone who joined posted every day. The site only sees a tiny snapshot of the entirety of this massive drugging catastrophe. Most people come and get introduced to the site and all of the information available and they only post a few times before going about their taper on their own or in conjunction with other withdrawal sites and FaceBook groups. 

 

What we do know is many people ARE able to come off these drugs, even with the most brutal withdrawal symptoms, and end up healing, even if not completely, but feeling better than they would have if they'd stayed on these drugs.

 

There are complicating factors. One complicating factor is that people who've been on these drugs for decades are older and have other health conditions. 

 

Another complicating factor involves confusing the damage of the drugs with the collateral damage, such as job losses and financial insecurity. Getting financially set back, especially for older people, can be devastating. So that adds to the trauma that can can weigh as heavily on the mind/body as withdrawal. If that's what you're dealing with, than being able to attribute at least part of your stress with the reality of financial issues can be helpful in setting up your withdrawal strategy. If you can't handle your current job, are there other job possibilities that will be able to carry you through? Are you able to downsize where you live? Do you have friends or family who can help? All of these things should be considered. 

 

The reason we keep going back to the "you're tapering too fast" is because you've mentioned that this drug is causing side effects but you tell us you're continuing to get worse the more you taper. So it's possible that holding may help, but by extending your taper with longer holds, you may become exhausted from battle fatigue from being chronically ill longer. That may explain why you're feeling worse. So if you're caught in the stage where you're dealing with "poop out" from these drugs (see Brassmonkey's post here - Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance) than you may have to continue tapering while having symptoms. So you may be doing exactly what you should be doing. 

 

There are a lot of people who find themselves in this situation. The best we can offer is to advice to get support from a social site such as Benzo Buddies, if you feel that social support is helpful (although be careful of getting tapering advice there - many Benzo Buddies members are using other psychiatric drugs to get off benzos), take time off from work if you can, schedule as much downtime as you can to rest, and it's important to eat a healthy diet, drink plenty of water, and do as much self care as you can. 

 

[54fiftyfour]

Just to resume my whole tapering process:

August 15 - September 11, 2022 = -10% (from 0,7 to 0,63 mg. per day)
September 12 - October 9, 2022 = -1,6% (from 0,63 to 0,62 mg. per day) - I felt very sick after the first month of reduction
October 10 - November 6, 2022 = -6,5% (from 0,62 to 0,58 mg. per day)
November 7 - December 4, 2022 = -6,9% (from 0,58 to 0,54 mg. per day)
December 11, 2022 - January 1, 2023 = -3,7% (from 0,54 to 0,52 mg. per day)
January 2 - January 29, 2023 = -4,8% (from 0,52 to 0,495 mg. per day)
January 30 - February 26, 2023 = -10,1% (from 0,495 to 0,445 mg. per day)
February 2027 - March 26, 2023 = -12,4% (from 0,445 to 0,39 mg. per day)
March 27 - April 23, 2023 = -5,1% (from 0,39 to 0,37 mg per day)

 

Schedule for the period April, 24 - March, 21 = -8,1% (from 0,37 to 0,34 mg. per day).

 

I know it can be too fast, but, as Shep wrote, this "poop out" is very frustrating for me and I'm forced to continue tapering while having terrible symptoms.

[Shep]

1 hour ago, 54fiftyfour said:

 

I know it can be too fast, but, as Shep wrote, this "poop out" is very frustrating for me and I'm forced to continue tapering while having terrible symptoms.

 

Yes, it is very frustrating, but as long as you keep your taper at the 10% or less rate, you're doing what you can to come off this drug without putting yourself in worse shape. However, if you feel the withdrawal is worse than the side effects, by all means, slow down.

 

Hope you're finding some good distractions and ways of non-drug coping to get you through this. 

[54fiftyfour]

Thank you for your reassurances and support, Shep. My main "distraction" is work. When I'm not feeling too agitated, I go out with some trusted friends to eat something. Sometime a few walks, or mild weight training (if I exaggerate, I feel terrible the next day). I can't read (before I always did), only watch movies on my phone during the worst day or before sleeping. I know I shouldn't do this, but I can't just stare at the ceiling or I'll go crazier than I already am. Everything is a pain, nothing is like before.

[54fiftyfour]

Following your advice, I also signed up for Benzo Buddies and found the kind support of an admin. He advices me to start with a reduction in my a.m dose (less than 5% preferably) and leave my night dose as it is until I've tapered off my morning dose completely. It may be a good strategy, but the problem is the duration: how long can I taper 0.04 mg. (morning dose) of 5% with my graduated cylinder? It's equivalent to 0.002 mg! Isn't it too small a dose?

 

In this moment I fill the cylinder up to 40 ml. of water, then I add a drop of clonazepam (=1 mg.) and remove the 60%, drinking 16 ml. (=0.04 mg.). If I make such a small cut (0,002 mg. or less) once a month, it becomes a very, very long time and, frankly, it is very difficult to have the lucidity to measure and check such minimal levels of drug every day.

 

I fully understand the valid reasons of his advice and every day I feel, in my body, the risks of akathisia, but isn't being exposed to a toxic drug for such a long time just as dangerous? As I already explained (I don't want to bore you), clonazepam gives me very strong depressive, cognitive, neurological and physical effects...

[Shep]

21 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

It may be a good strategy, but the problem is the duration: how long can I taper 0.04 mg. (morning dose) of 5% with my graduated cylinder? It's equivalent to 0.002 mg! Isn't it too small a dose?

 

In this moment I fill the cylinder up to 40 ml. of water, then I add a drop of clonazepam (=1 mg.) and remove the 60%, drinking 16 ml. (=0.04 mg.).

 

You can add more water to the cylinder to make it easier to get to those lower doses. 

[54fiftyfour]

Hi,

 

I continue to feel very ill.  I'm starting to feel strong interdose symptoms from trying to reduce the morning intake, but, as I always said, nothing particularly different than when I'm on clonazepam. I know we've talked about this before and Shep wasn't particullarly recommending it, but I am thinking to switch from clonazepam to diazepam. Rivotril made me sick from the first moment I took it (may 12, 2022) and, most importantly, it has drastically worsened my painful pudendal neuropathy and sexual dysfunctions. I spoke with a neuroscience major (he also had PSSD from trazodone) who studied the pharmacokinetics of Rivotril. He says that clonazepam makes a direct modulation on the serotonin receptors (5HT1 and 5HT2) and acts, in a certain sense, as an SSRI, so it strenghtens PSSD. I also have difficulty in reducing the drops of Rivotril down to very small doses (for example, 0,002 mg.). As you know better than me, clonazepam is very potent and concentrated.

At the same time, I'm really scared to mess my brain again with another change of drug. I don't know if switching to Valium is a good idea. Shep told me it can produce severely depressive symptoms and I fear its introduction does not protect me from the dangerous side effects of stopping clonazepam. Perhaps, however, diazepam shows the advantage of being easier to taper, to have a longer half-life and , most important thing, not hitting the sexual sphere as hard as Rivotril does.I assure you it is devastating to feel that pudendal pain every day.

I don't know what the cases of switching to Valium from clonazepam are on this forum. I have seen, on other forums, that some people are successful with the switch to diazepam, others are worse off. I think that, may be, the effects of Valium on the sexual sphere could be minor, but at the same time I wouldn't deceive myself and mess around again, doing worse than now. I just need opinion or advices, based on the experiences you know. I'm currently taking 0,03 mg. of clonazepam at 10.00 (morning) and 0,3 mg. at 22.00 (night). I'd be interested in understanding how to possibly make the switch. I think it's not easy.

[Shep]

You're down to .33 mg in total dose. At this point, I would think it would be best to continue tapering the clonazepam. Cross-tapering while destabilized can lead to further destabilization. Since you've already come so far, it's best to taper the drug you know. From what you wrote, it sounds like you have a lot of misgivings of moving to Valium. I would honor that feeling and simply continue on with what you're doing. 

[54fiftyfour]

Thank you, Shep.

 

I think I will try to follow your advice, but always more often I have to lie in bed, unable to move - not even the muscles of the face, they are paralized - and with my head pounding. I don't even have the strength to raise a glass. Is this also normal? Please, tell me, it's important also to understand why it happens.

I understand that these symptoms are related to clonazepam, but I don't know if they are due to the process of taper or to the fact that I am continuing to take this very toxic drug. I'm at 0,33 mg., the road is still very long, what can I do? I feel like throwing up just thinking about having to take Rivotril for so long again. How will it reduce me? How will these severe symptoms ever go away? Is it possible that there is no other solution than continuing to swallow a drug that is clearly destroyng all my mental and body functions? Sorry, I know that many are suffering here and I'm not the only one. You have all my deepest respect.

[Shep]

56 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I think I will try to follow your advice, but always more often I have to lie in bed, unable to move - not even the muscles of the face, they are paralized - and with my head pounding. I don't even have the strength to raise a glass. Is this also normal?

 

How long are you lying in bed completely paralyzed every day? Is this worse than where you were before you made your last decrease? If so, you may want to stop tapering and / or updose if the reduction was in the past couple of weeks. 

 

As written many times on your thread, you may be tapering too fast and not allowing enough hold time. 

 

[54fiftyfour]

I have always had severe problems with clonazepam, since I started taking it at a regular dose and even more in all the period I have been tapering it, also when I did it only for 1,6% or 3,7% in a month. I've been in bed completely paralized several times in different period (expecially december, february and now). Some day I can go out, but the most of days I must stay at home in the morning or all the day. I decribed a lot of times all the horrible side effects of this drug on my mind and body. It don't give me depression, but coma. I'm not human at the moment, only a very anxious and sick automaton. Are you sure that continuing to take this drug at regular doses would be the best option for me? If so, it means I will never be able to get out from this nightmare.

 

For a week, I have planned and started to reduce the night dose of 0,001 mg. for six days, then hold for three days. Morning dose (0,028 now) of 0,001 mg. every nine days. This means 0,024 mg. per months and 0,0008 per day. If even this is too much, I really don't know what to do anymore.

[Shep]

 

21 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

For a week, I have planned and started to reduce the night dose of 0,001 mg. for six days, then hold for three days. Morning dose (0,028 now) of 0,001 mg. every nine days. This means 0,024 mg. per months and 0,0008 per day.

 

 

From what you've written, it sounds like your daytime symptoms are worse and you're saying it's a side effect of the drug. Is that correct?

 

If so, why are you reducing the night dose? 

 

As mentioned last year when you first joined the forum: 

 

On 7/7/2022 at 7:09 AM, Shep said:

I would get on a regular dosing schedule of the clonazepam. If it's too sedating during the day, you could only take it at night to get some much-needed sleep and then work with non-drug coping skills to get through the day.

 

If you're feeling overly sedated during the day, I would get off the daytime doses first and then reduce the night time dose last. Klonopin has a long enough half life that many people only take it once a day. 

 

21 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Are you sure that continuing to take this drug at regular doses would be the best option for me? If so, it means I will never be able to get out from this nightmare.

 

What do you mean by "regular doses"? 

[54fiftyfour]

Not all my daily symptoms are due to the morning dose. I think it is too small to be the cause of every thing. Probably I'm tapering too fast, as you're correctly saying. I live a situation of great instability, going from days I can't stand up becouse of comatose depression/weakness to days (as today) in which I'm not sedated, but very agitated and breathlessness.

 

Why am I reducing also my night dose? Sincerely, it's becouse I don't want the side effects of this drug in my body anymore. Among a thousand other things, it's affecting my pudendal nerve and worsening my horrible PSSD. From a psychological and phisical point of view, that's unaccettable.

 

By regular dosing, I mean quitting my taper and stabilizing for an extended period of time. I'm not sure I will feel so much better.

 

Probably it's the moment to follow your advice to switch the morning dose to the night and take the drug only once a day. Do you think this dose is small (0,028 mg.)? If yes, could I do it in only one or two days, instead of gradually move it up to an hour a day? Or could this rapid change produce further instability?

 

I confess that, sometime, I'm tempted to cut the current morning dose all off in one fell swoop. I'm sick of that graduated cylinder and the time wasted to check even the smallest doses. It's just an instinct, even if, sooner or later, I'll have to make the "jump" at a certain small dose, right?

 

 

 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Probably it's the moment to follow your advice to switch the morning dose to the night and take the drug only once a day. Do you think this dose is small (0,028 mg.)? If yes, could I do it in only one or two days, instead of gradually move it up to an hour a day? Or could this rapid change produce further instability?

 

I wouldn't make any abrupt timing changes. Gradual is best. Keep in mind that moving the dose is a change, so you'll need to go into a hold and not taper while you're adjusting the timing. 

 

If you're going to continue on tapering, instead of moving the morning dose, you could reduce it instead of reducing the nighttime dose. 

 

If you're going to go into a long hold, it may be worth it to gradually move the morning dose to the night dose. 

 

[54fiftyfour]

On 6/1/2023 at 1:18 PM, Shep said:

If you're going to continue on tapering, instead of moving the morning dose, you could reduce it instead of reducing the nighttime dose.

 

Thank you, Shep. I brought back the nightly dose to 3,0 mg. (from 0,294) and I will try to eliminate the morning dose (0,028 mg. now). The problem is that I can do it only with a linear taper, taking off a microgram every ten or fifteen days. The dose seems to small to proceed with pecentage cuts.

 

I confess to be very, very discouraged. Since I started taking clonazepam (one year ago), there hasn't been a day that I have felt remotely near to be well. No windows, only a strong and long waves. Not only Rivotril makes me feel worse when I was taking it in regular doses, but it made me feel horrible during all my taper. I honestly have no hope of successfully completing the taper.

 

I'm not looking for compassion, but a technical answere: is it possible that my brain is so strongly addicted to this drug, to the point of becoming a slave to it? If to switch from 0,7 mg. to 0,328 mg. it's been so hard, how can I expect to successfully navigate the even more difficult phase ahead? I mean, it's like my body told me: stop the taper and accept to take it forever, feeling very sick and being unable to live.

 

[54fiftyfour]

Please, can someone explain to me how the method of pharmaceutical compound works to dilute the benzo more accurately? I read it can be more precise than the taper by mixing water and drops. 

[Shep]

1 hour ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Please, can someone explain to me how the method of pharmaceutical compound works to dilute the benzo more accurately? I read it can be more precise than the taper by mixing water and drops. 

 

Please see:

 

Pharmacy liquids to make suspensions

 

Questions and answers about liquid medications

 

If you have questions about your specific brand of pharmaceutical compound, please ask your pharmacist. 

[54fiftyfour]

I've been having severe daytime withdrawal symptoms for the past few weeks. Over time I reduced the morning dose to almost zero (0,0267) and I fear I am in a full interdose crisis. Right now I can't breathe, my skin burns everywhere and I'm very anxious, trembling and contract in all my body. Do these interdose symptoms go away over time, or should I keep them until I go back to a higher dosage? And If I restore a part of the dosage, don't I run the risk of a further kindling with worse effects? What do you recommend?

[Shep]

7 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I've been having severe daytime withdrawal symptoms for the past few weeks. Over time I reduced the morning dose to almost zero (0,0267) and I fear I am in a full interdose crisis. Right now I can't breathe, my skin burns everywhere and I'm very anxious, trembling and contract in all my body. Do these interdose symptoms go away over time, or should I keep them until I go back to a higher dosage? And If I restore a part of the dosage, don't I run the risk of a further kindling with worse effects? What do you recommend?

 

I don't know, but I'm wondering if you may have reached the point where withdrawal is now worse than side effects? Do you think that could be true? 

 

From your signature, you have a reduction on May 30.  You mention the severe daytime withdrawal symptoms for "the past few weeks." Did these start before or after your May 30 reduction? If it was after, you may want to updose at least part of the way back to where you were May 30. I wouldn't go all the way back up because your system probably has started adjusting to the lower dose. 

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

Yes, I think you're right, Shep. The symptoms of abstinence are now worse than the "usual" side effects. They were very strong, with burning skin symptoms, during the last two-three weeks. Now I'm on 0,03+0,3 mg. again.

 

Sexual side effects of clonazepam are terrible. It is a direct antagonist of serotonin and is aggravating my pudendal nerve pain, just like I was taking an SSRI. To cross to diazepam is a big risk - I know, we have already discussed about - and would not be without serious side effects, but the thought is always there on the table. It's very difficult, for me, to taper clonazepam, may be Valium drops can be easier. For sure, diazepam doesn't mess directly with serotonin receptors. This is very important. Sorry if I insist, but Rivotril is causing problems on my genital skin and this is too much frustrating. If I decide to cross, I think I should take two months for completing the process. Or more?