54fiftyfour: trazodone WD

[54fiftyfour]

Yes, the second day I felt depression an suicidal symptoms at 14.00, not immediately after taking 0,2 mg. It's only a matter of time.  

[54fiftyfour]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

You report feeling depressed not long after taking clonazepam on 7/14/22, but in the next day's journal, you report not feeling any anxiety. Did you feel any depression? 

Yes, on July, 14 (second day) I felt depression an suicidal symptoms at 14.00, not immediately after taking 0,2 mg. It's only a matter of time. 

[54fiftyfour]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

Clonazepam is a very potent drug, but I wouldn't say it's the worst drug to taper. Many people struggle to come off of diazepam, which is a lot less potent and has a long half life. It really depends. It's less about the drug and more about how sensitized a person's nervous system is, especially if the taper has been too fast.

So that probably means that, for me, it will be almost impossible to get out with success, even if I make the taper very slowly. My nervous system is extremely sensitized cause too many drugs and too many abrupt interruptions. Don't you think?

[54fiftyfour]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

please give your nervous system some time to recover. You've been periodically dosing, meaning your nervous system has been dealing with unpredictable amounts of the drug in your system.  And now you're making a large reduction. Some of your symptoms may be side effects and paradoxical effects, but making abrupt changes like this can make the problem worse by traumatizing your nervous system further

You're right, I understand what you mean, but I'm very scared when suicidal thoughts come to me. I didn't have them today, but I don't believe it depends from having taken 0,4 mg. yesterday night. I ordered the little cylinders on Amazon to make the reductions of then percent a month. They will arrive on july, 20. In the meantime, what do you advise me to do? Back to 0,7 per day, check if it is enough for avoiding WD symptoms and endure those horrible days? How long should I stibilize the dosage before tapering? I'm disgusted with the idea of handling that drug for a long time to come.

 

[Greatful]

@54fiftyfour  I just want to welcome you to SA. and express my empathy for what you are going through.  Please the important thing you can do for yourself right now is try not to panic.  I know how hard that is to do.  Stay away from reading things that will only perpetuate your fear and panic.  Take a deep breath, find ways to to slow the thoughts down, meditation, walking, breathing exercises, tapping.  Believe me I know what panic feels like and how overwhelming this all is.  But this is where you are at right now the goal is to stop the spiral and find a calm way out of this mess.  

You can do this.  

Maybe you could distract yourself with looking around SA and learning ways to help yourself.  Find success stories that resonate with you.  Reach out to other members for encouragement and validation.  

You are most certainly not alone.

 

Here are a few links to help

 

Here is a link for 4 beginning meditation from the mindful Movement  guided meditations.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCQACBUblTbXAFIRGA2RApfFQ16WsYmdY

[Altostrata]

@54fiftyfour you may be suffering adverse effects from too much clonazepam. Since you started taking it May 12 (which we would not have advised), you are at risk of withdrawal symptoms if you reduce the dose.

 

While you'd probably do better with a lower dose, we don't want you to add withdrawal symptoms to your current symptoms, so we're advising you to reduce more slowly. This may involve holding at your current dosage and coping with the symptoms while the 14.29% reduction you did today, settles out, which will take at least a month.

 

Over that month, the amount of the clonazepam in your bloodstream will gradually decrease and you might feel the adverse effect to lessen. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

After that, since you're taking 6mg clonazepam per day, you might decrease by 0.60mg, or 10% of the current dose.

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

Date: july, 15 2022

 

5.00 - Woke up with anxiety, muscle twitching and tingling in the limbs

7.30 - Ate breakfast (fruit, omelette and vegetables)

9,45 - Took 0,2 mg. clonazepam

10.30 - Developed drowsiness all the day

13:00 - Ate lunch (cooked carrots with rice)

13.30 - Fasciculations on legs

20.00 - Ate dinner (raw fennel, vegetable soup, fish with cooked vegetables)

23.00 - Took 0,5 mg. clonazepam for helping sleep

From 23.30 onwards - Sleeping without awakenings

4.10 - Woke up with anxiety and cardiac palpitations (new symptoms from clonazepam variations?)

[54fiftyfour]

On 7/11/2022 at 12:37 PM, Shep said:

Do you remember how many times you were taking as much as .9 mg a day? You may be dependent on this higher dose, so if you have start having a lot of symptoms, please go ahead and updose. The timeframe for a safe benzo updose is within 4 weeks of last being on that higher dose. So you'll want to updose sooner rather than later.

Yesterday  morning and tonight around four I had unusual anxiety with heart palpitations. I agree with Altostrada and Shep, this can be due to variations in clonazepam dosage. What does it mean the above mentioned post from Shep? Should I increase the dosage to 0,9 mg./day within four weeks of june, 26 and 29 (the only two date I took that dosage) to be sure to avoid withdrawal symptoms? Otherwise what happens? Consider there have also days in which I toke from 0,6 to 0,8 mg.

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

10 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You are at risk of withdrawal symptoms if you reduce the dose. While you'd probably do better with a lower dose, we don't want you to add withdrawal symptoms to your current symptoms, so we're advising you to reduce more slowly. This may involve holding at your current dosage and coping with the symptoms while the 14.29% reduction you did today, settles out, which will take at least a month.

Yesterday night, following Shep's warning about the risk of reducing by 14,29%, I toke 0,5 mg. again and the I will add 0,2 mg. this morning. Was I wrong again? In your opinion, could  it be a good idea to stabilize at 0.7 (0,5+0,2) for a week or two? And if anxiety symptoms continue to enhance, what should I do? Clonazepam makes me feel sick, but I'm terrorized from its possible WD. They can be far worse. Please, help me.

[54fiftyfour]

Short update: heart palpitations (never had untill a few days ago) continue throughout the day...

[54fiftyfour]

July, 16 2022

 

4.10 - Woke up with anxiety and cardiac palpitations

7.30 - Ate breakfast (fruit, omelette and vegetables)

9,30 - Took 0,2 mg. clonazepam

10.30 - Developed anxiety and cardiac palpitation for half an hour

13:00 - Ate lunch (raw vegetables, pasta and fish)

14.30 onwards - Slight anxiety and cardiac palpitations

17.30 - Drink a fruit and vegetables extract

20.00 - Ate dinner (toast)

23.00 - Took 0,5 mg. clonazepam for helping sleep

From 23.30 onwards - Sleeping without awakenings

3.56 - Woke up with anxiety, cardiac palpitations and some motor agitation

5.00 - Started depression and feeling of being hopeless.

 

I'm currently continuing with 0,5mg. + 0,2mg., but I feel unusual nocturnal anxiety with cardiac palpitations. Can this be the beginning of a growing withdrawal sydrome from clonazepam? In your opinion, what should I do to prevent it?

 

[Shep]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:42 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

So that probably means that, for me, it will be almost impossible to get out with success, even if I make the taper very slowly. My nervous system is extremely sensitized cause too many drugs and too many abrupt interruptions. Don't you think?

 

Most people come into this forum destabilized, but we still have a lot of success stories:

 

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal

 

You can do this, but it will take time. 

 

On 7/16/2022 at 2:36 AM, 54fiftyfour said:

What does it mean the above mentioned post from Shep? Should I increase the dosage to 0,9 mg./day within four weeks of june, 26 and 29 (the only two date I took that dosage) to be sure to avoid withdrawal symptoms? Otherwise what happens? Consider there have also days in which I toke from 0,6 to 0,8 mg.

 

I wouldn't increase, especially if you feel you're getting side effects from what you're currently taking. 

 

Some of your symptoms are likely coming from all of the changes in blood levels, so the best path for that is to stop making changes. In other words, hold for awhile and see if your nervous system can stabilize. 

 

4 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I'm currently continuing with 0,5mg. + 0,2mg., but I feel unusual nocturnal anxiety with cardiac palpitations. Can this be the beginning of a growing withdrawal sydrome from clonazepam? In your opinion, what should I do to prevent it?

 

Until you give your nervous system time to adjust from all of the changes, all we can advise is to hold. 

[Shep]

@54fiftyfour From information on the heart palpitation symptom, please see:

 

Irregular heartbeats, palpitations, tachycardia, bradycardia

[54fiftyfour]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Until you give your nervous system time to adjust from all of the changes, all we can advise is to hold.

Yes, but consider that my level of anxiety, strange feelings of quasi-tremor and pinpricks in the face and body are increasing day by day. While I am writing in the first afternoon, for example. Are we sure that, if I resist, they will stop, or do they continue to increase until it is too late to block the acute withdrawal syndrome, even increasing dosage? You wrote yourself that, in these cases, it might be better to act first becouse the "safety time" is four weeks from the highest dosage. Let's see what happens. I update you. Please, stay connected and reply as much as you can. I thank you and Altostrata so much.

[54fiftyfour]

One question: does clonazepam reduce serotonin and other neurotransmitters levels in the brain? If yes, can this be one of the reason of depression and suicidal thoughts?

[ChessieCat]

Chemical imbalance was a theory many decades ago and was debunked at least 20 years ago.

 

Video:  The Chemical Imbalance Theory of Mental Disorders   Includes the history

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/10/myth-chemical-imbalance/

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/05/still-believe-chemical-imbalance-theory-mental-illness/

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/02/chemical-imbalance-theory-going/

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/05/dangers-chemical-imbalance-theory-depression/

 

And SA's topic:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Yes, but consider that my level of anxiety, strange feelings of quasi-tremor and pinpricks in the face and body are increasing day by day. While I am writing in the first afternoon, for example. Are we sure that, if I resist, they will stop, or do they continue to increase until it is too late to block the acute withdrawal syndrome, even increasing dosage? You wrote yourself that, in these cases, it might be better to act first becouse the "safety time" is four weeks from the highest dosage. Let's see what happens. I update you. Please, stay connected and reply as much as you can. I thank you and Altostrata so much.

 

If you do decide to reduce, I would only decrease by 10% and see how you do.

 

Please let us know how you feel over the coming days. 

[54fiftyfour]

Just another little question: in your experience, do you have an approximate case history of how long, on average, people who stopped cold turkey resolve or improve their symptoms, compared to those who get a slow taper?   

[ChessieCat]

Here is the link to a search for the term "cold turkey" in the Success stories forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q="cold turkey"

[54fiftyfour]

I did not sleep tonight, despite 0,5 mg. of clonazepam. This morning I woke up agitated and now, after taking 0,2 mg, I'm more agitated than before. I don't understand anything. It is very difficult do understand how to behave. I don't konw if it's the paradoxical effects or the withdrawal syndrome from clonazepam or trazodone. May be I developed tolerance to clonazepam and it no longer works at those doses? At the same time, symptoms from trazodone withdrawal are still there (strong anxiety, agitation, insomnia, PSSD, etc.). How can I do to manage all this mess without becoming crazy?

[Shep]

2 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I did not sleep tonight, despite 0,5 mg. of clonazepam. This morning I woke up agitated and now, after taking 0,2 mg, I'm more agitated than before. I don't understand anything. It is very difficult do understand how to behave. I don't konw if it's the paradoxical effects or the withdrawal syndrome from clonazepam or trazodone. May be I developed tolerance to clonazepam and it no longer works at those doses? At the same time, symptoms from trazodone withdrawal are still there (strong anxiety, agitation, insomnia, PSSD, etc.). How can I do to manage all this mess without becoming crazy?

 

It can take awhile to stabilize after all of these changes. I'm a bit confused by your statement "I did not sleep tonight" followed by "this morning I woke up."  You ARE sleeping. You're just not getting enough sleep to feel rested. And I suspect by now, you're feeling more than a little battle fatigued. Your symptoms may not be worse in intensity, but being sick and tired for a long time makes anyone less able to handle them as this drags on. This is important to note when trying to figure out how the drug is connected to your symptoms. 

 

As mentioned earlier, if you want to decrease your dose, you could try 10% and see how you do. Again, it's going to take time to stabilize, so please do as much self care as you can. As you mentioned, how much of this is trazodone withdrawal and how much of this is due to paradoxical or other problems with the earlier periodic benzo dosing is unknown. 

 

Do you have a good bedtime routine, such as an epsom salt bath (for magnesium), guided meditations, gentle stretching, etc.? Activities such as working a jigsaw puzzle while listening to calming music can help settle the nervous system down for the night. Anything you do to calm the nervous system can be helpful in managing this mess without, as you say, becoming crazy. 

 

[Shep]

Here are more tips to help get more sleep: 

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

Sorry, Shep,

I didn't mean "woken up", but "out of bed". I was not sleeping. 

[54fiftyfour]

My concern is that, the more I use clonazepam, the more I develop tolerance and need more drug. At the same time, as soon as I reduce it, I can suffer a lot from anxiety symptoms from trazodone WD.

[54fiftyfour]

Another question: if I start to reduce the last dose by ten percent every month, tolerance to the drug will develop in the meantime. Isn't that almost the same as developing withdrawal symptoms from the drug? 

[54fiftyfour]

This night I was able to sleep six hours and half without motor agitation around 4.00, but when I woke up I was very depressed and now, after 0,2 mg., I'm really confused and suicidal. Clonazepam is really a ****. I don't know how I will be able to get rid of it without bad consequences.

[Shep]

22 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

My concern is that, the more I use clonazepam, the more I develop tolerance and need more drug. At the same time, as soon as I reduce it, I can suffer a lot from anxiety symptoms from trazodone WD.

 

You are likely already dependent and yes, you may develop a tolerance to the amount you are currently taking. It may help to read the first posts in these threads. The first is on antidepressants, but if you substitute "GABA" for "serotonin," it's the same concept. It's about how a drug causes dependency.

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

What is happening in your brain?

 

21 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Another question: if I start to reduce the last dose by ten percent every month, tolerance to the drug will develop in the meantime. Isn't that almost the same as developing withdrawal symptoms from the drug? 

 

Yes, it may feel that way. Please see:

 

Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance  or as It's Lovingly Known "Poop-Out"

 

23 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Sorry, Shep,

I didn't mean "woken up", but "out of bed". I was not sleeping. 

 

18 minutes ago, 54fiftyfour said:

This night I was able to sleep six hours and half without motor agitation around 4.00, but when I woke up I was very depressed and now, after 0,2 mg., I'm really confused and suicidal. Clonazepam is really a ****. I don't know how I will be able to get rid of it without bad consequences.

 

Thanks for clarifying this, 54. It sounds like you're stabilizing and getting some sleep but waking with a lot of cortisol, which is very common. Please see:

 

Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Please note that having a good night / bad night symptom pattern is not unusual in benzo withdrawal. So please don't be surprised if you see this type of pattern. 

 

At this point, you have four choices:

 

1. Stop the benzo cold turkey. This will likely cause your nervous system to crash, so not a good idea. While tolerance, side effects, paradoxical effects, and adverse reactions are bad, you have to weigh that against pulling the vine off the trellis too quickly (to use an analogy in the "How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel the Brain" thread linked earlier in this post). For more on cold turkey, please see - Cold Turkey and Too-Fast Tapers
2. Stay on the benzo forever.  This would likely cause more problems than coming off, especially in the long run. 
3. Add back in a small amount of mirtazapine. This is an option, but you would have to stay on your current dose of benzo long enough to establish some sort of baseline because of the ripple effect of the waves from earlier periodic benzo dosing. It looks like you may already be stabilizing by getting some sleep last night. We've been pushing the benzo advice more in your case because it's the first step to seeing if a reinstatement of the previous drug is even needed or if it may make things worse for you. 
4. Taper the benzo at 10%. This is a good compromise to mitigate withdrawal symptoms while still getting off the drug. You would only do this if you don't reinstate the mirtazapine. If you reinstate the mirtazapine, you would need to stabilize first and then determine which drug is helping the most with sleep. The drug that helps the most with sleep is the drug you would taper last, as preserving sleep is key. 

I know this is a lot of information, but please take your time reading over it, especially the links. 

 

There's no reason you can't get off this drug and heal and the more information you have, the more you can simply learn to float and breathe through these symptoms and know that they all are temporary. 

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

19 hours ago, Shep said:

Yes, it may feel that way. Please see:

 

Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance  or as It's Lovingly Known "Poop-Out"

And in this case, how can a person resist to the symptoms of extreme anxiety, panic, derealization, etc.?

 

20 hours ago, Shep said:

We've been pushing the benzo advice more in your case because it's the first step to seeing if a reinstatement of the previous drug is even needed or if it may make things worse for you. 

I don't understand very well what you mean. Do you mean I should gradually take off clonazepam for restoring trazodone?

 

I read on this forum many stories of people who have been very sick for so many years. Sincerely, this is not encouraging. Also, one of my biggest drawbacks is total PSSD and loss of libido. Trazodone WD irremediably aggravated it. I don't think if, once the nervous system is stabilized, something can improve, but I tend to believe not. Does someone know if it's a problem of serotonin receptors or what else? From what I know, there is no solution for PSSD. 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

From what I know, there is no solution for PSSD. 

 

This is the link to the search results for the term PSSD in the Success Stories forum.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=PSSD

[Shep]

4 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

And in this case, how can a person resist to the symptoms of extreme anxiety, panic, derealization, etc.?

 

By resist, do you mean prevent? There's no way to prevent these symptoms once your nervous system is traumatized by withdrawal. However, you can learn to live with them as they resolve over time. That's why we recommend learning skills such as those found here:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Here is one that can help right away: 

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

These skills take time to implement and work but they are necessary and we get better at them the more we use them. 

 

Eating healthy, drinking plenty of water, taking a 30 minute walk in nature every day, having good sleep hygiene, and learning to accept that recovery is going to take a long time. This is a great post on acceptance:

 

Acceptance and Hope

 

4 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I don't understand very well what you mean. Do you mean I should gradually take off clonazepam for restoring trazodone?

 

 

You need to take the benzo consistently for awhile before deciding your next move. You won't be able to come off clonazepam before reinstating trazodone because a taper off of clonazepam will take a long time and you'll be outside of a safe timeframe in which to reinstate the trazodone. If consistent benzo dosing solves enough of your symptoms, you may not need to reinstate the mirtazapine. Or if the benzo is causing paradoxical and side effects, it may be better to taper off the clonazepam to solve those problems. 

 

You're in a difficult position because tapering off the benzo at the same time as reinstating the trazodone would be very confusing to tell where your symptoms are coming from. 

 

How long have you been taking clonazepam at the same time and the same dose every day? 

 

4 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Trazodone WD irremediably aggravated it.

 

Did it aggravate it or did it cause it? The reason I ask is because according to your signature, you were off of all psychiatric drugs from 2009 until 2022 when you went on trazodone. Were you on any drugs between 2009 and 2022? 

 

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

This is the link to the search results for the term PSSD in the Success Stories forum

Thank you, Chessie. Some cases seem more like improvements than full recoveries. Obviously, better than nothing.

[54fiftyfour]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

By resist, do you mean prevent? There's no way to prevent these symptoms once your nervous system is traumatized by withdrawal. However, you can learn to live with them as they resolve over time.

I mean "resist" becouse I suppose that, tapering clonazepam by ten per cent, I will still feel negative side effects (eg. extreme anxiety, derealization, may be epileptic fits, etc.). A month days ago, while driving, I had a thirty second paresthesia on the right side of my face and could not move my arm and speak. I did all the tests, including the MRI, and everything was fine. I suspect an adverse reaction of clonazepam to dose variations. By the way, to taper clonazepam could mean a re-emerging or worsening of anxiety symptoms from trazodone withdrawal. I'm very confused and understand to be in a very chaotic situation.

 

 

 

 

[54fiftyfour]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

You need to take the benzo consistently for awhile before deciding your next move. You won't be able to come off clonazepam before reinstating trazodone because a taper off of clonazepam will take a long time and you'll be outside of a safe timeframe in which to reinstate the trazodone. If consistent benzo dosing solves enough of your symptoms, you may not need to reinstate the mirtazapine. Or if the benzo is causing paradoxical and side effects, it may be better to taper off the clonazepam to solve those problems. 

 

You're in a difficult position because tapering off the benzo at the same time as reinstating the trazodone would be very confusing to tell where your symptoms are coming from. 

 

How long have you been taking clonazepam at the same time and the same dose every day? 

I have been taking clonazepam at the same time and dose every day since july, 12 (0,5 mg. at 23.00 in the night and 0,2 mg. at 10.00 in the morning), except than one night (0,4 mg.). It doesn't work well to make me sleep (sometimes yes and sometimes no, eg. last night). It seems that my sleep hours and quality doesn't depend from taking clonazepam, which, moreover, hasn't no muscle relaxant power on me. Besisdes, with the morning dosage, it feels me depressed and sometime suicidal, especially when I think to the worsening of my sexual disfunctions.

 

I have a lot of doubts about taking mirtazapine becouse, in the past, I've already taken it and it made my depression, fatigue and PSSD worse (read my first post in this forum).

 

Do you really think that my goal should be to restore trazodone? Altostrata advised not. Sorry, I'm a little confused.

 

In these last seven days, I must say that I had four morning with less motor agitation than usual.

[54fiftyfour]

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Shep said:

Did it aggravate it or did it cause it? The reason I ask is because according to your signature, you were off of all psychiatric drugs from 2009 until 2022 when you went on trazodone. Were you on any drugs between 2009 and 2022? 

This is the most complicated question. I started my first post on the forum writing: "In 2008, to cure the anxiety symptoms caused by the finasteride withdrawal, I was prescribed paroxetine and, already on the first day of intake, I developed PSSD with anesthesia and narrowing of the genitals (which still lasts)". Finasteride also took away my libido, but it was  paroxetine to destroy my genitals that, before taking it, were ok. I developed not only anesthesia, but also shrinking and changes in tissue and blod flow. The rest of antidepressants (citalopram, mirtazapine, etc.) made everything worse.

 

After taking testosterone for six weekes (2009), anxiety and depression symptoms disappeared and I didn't take any drug untill february, 2022. Very low libido and PSSD, however, always stayed there and I have clearly been feeling a paresthesia of pudendal nerve since 2009. I had some good improvement with a fifteen-day fasting on water alone (2014) and, with the help of Levitra, could have some sexual intercourse. Then I got worse again becouse I didn't get the right diet, but situation was surely better than now.

 

After trazodone WD, things are drammatically got worse. I feel more discomfort in the pudendal nerve and total anesthesia and, if I try to have an orgasm alone (with a lot of effort), my whole body starts to tremble and then I increase the level of usual anxiety troughout the day. I don't think, realistically, that something will improve spontaneously, even if trazodone WD symptoms, for miracle, calm down. I think to have had some epigenetic changes since 2009 and I can't forgive myself for having taken trazodone to help sleep.

 

In 2012 I did a CSF test, where the researchers found almost zero levels of allopregnanolone compared to the control group. Have you never thought about the role of this neurosteroid and it's importance for the balance of nervous system and the interaction with all neurotransmitters? According to some studies, it could be implicated also in PSSD.

[Shep]

18 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I mean "resist" becouse I suppose that, tapering clonazepam by ten per cent, I will still feel negative side effects (eg. extreme anxiety, derealization, may be epileptic fits, etc.).

 

If you taper, you won't have epileptic fits (i.e. seizures). And the other withdrawal symptoms will be less with a taper than a cold turkey. 

 

18 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

By the way, to taper clonazepam could mean a re-emerging or worsening of anxiety symptoms from trazodone withdrawal. I'm very confused and understand to be in a very chaotic situation.

 

Yes, if the clonazepam is covering up the withdrawal from trazodone, than you could experience more withdrawal symptoms from trazodone if you reduce the clonazepam. However, you've repeatedly reported that the clonazepam is causing a lot of side effects and paradoxical effects. 

 

You'll have to weigh the risks and benefits. 

 

17 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

I have been taking clonazepam at the same time and dose every day since july, 12 (0,5 mg. at 23.00 in the night and 0,2 mg. at 10.00 in the morning), except than one night (0,4 mg.).

 

Thanks, 54. I've added this to your signature. 

 

17 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Besisdes, with the morning dosage, it feels me depressed and sometime suicidal, especially when I think to the worsening of my sexual disfunctions.

 

 

If you're feeling suicidal because of the way you think, then that may be more of a problem that the clonazepam's side effects. Please see:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

17 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

Do you really think that my goal should be to restore trazodone? Altostrata advised not. Sorry, I'm a little confused.

 

I think your goal should be to stabilize on the clonazepam before you do anything else. I only listed reinstating the trazodone as an option when I was presenting ALL of the available options. I'm sorry that made it confusing. 

 

You've only been on consistent benzo dosing for a little over a week. I would continue holding for a couple more weeks. This is what Alto wrote about that:

 

On 7/15/2022 at 3:57 PM, Altostrata said:

While you'd probably do better with a lower dose, we don't want you to add withdrawal symptoms to your current symptoms, so we're advising you to reduce more slowly. This may involve holding at your current dosage and coping with the symptoms while the 14.29% reduction you did today, settles out, which will take at least a month.

 

Over that month, the amount of the clonazepam in your bloodstream will gradually decrease and you might feel the adverse effect to lessen. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

You're already seeing improvements, as you note here:

 

18 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

In these last seven days, I must say that I had four morning with less motor agitation than usual.

 

Please continue holding for a couple more weeks and see if you can establish a solid baseline before reducing. 

 

17 hours ago, 54fiftyfour said:

This is the most complicated question. I started my first post on the forum writing: "In 2008, to cure the anxiety symptoms caused by the finasteride withdrawal, I was prescribed paroxetine and, already on the first day of intake, I developed PSSD with anesthesia and narrowing of the genitals (which still lasts)". Finasteride also took away my libido, but it was  paroxetine to destroy my genitals that, before taking it, were ok. I developed not only anesthesia, but also shrinking and changes in tissue and blod flow. The rest of antidepressants (citalopram, mirtazapine, etc.) made everything worse.

 

After taking testosterone for six weekes (2009), anxiety and depression symptoms disappeared and I didn't take any drug untill february, 2022. Very low libido and PSSD, however, always stayed there and I have clearly been feeling a paresthesia of pudendal nerve since 2009. I had some good improvement with a fifteen-day fasting on water alone (2014) and, with the help of Levitra, could have some sexual intercourse. Then I got worse again becouse I didn't get the right diet, but situation was surely better than now.

 

After trazodone WD, things are drammatically got worse. I feel more discomfort in the pudendal nerve and total anesthesia and, if I try to have an orgasm alone (with a lot of effort), my whole body starts to tremble and then I increase the level of usual anxiety troughout the day. I don't think, realistically, that something will improve spontaneously, even if trazodone WD symptoms, for miracle, calm down. I think to have had some epigenetic changes since 2009 and I can't forgive myself for having taken trazodone to help sleep.

 

In 2012 I did a CSF test, where the researchers found almost zero levels of allopregnanolone compared to the control group. Have you never thought about the role of this neurosteroid and it's importance for the balance of nervous system and the interaction with all neurotransmitters? According to some studies, it could be implicated also in PSSD.

 

I can't answer this question, but you may want to use the search feature for allopregnanolone and see if there's information on this site about that. 

 

Thanks for your explanation of when your symptoms started, 54. It sounds like it's a culmination of a lot of problems dating back to 2008. 

 

I would hold the clonazepam dose steady for a couple more weeks and then reassess what your next step should be. It's possible that tapering off psychiatric drugs and not trying to fix any symptoms with more drugs or treatments will bring you closer to healing from all of cumulative damage.  

 

You're already seeing improvements and that speaks to healing. 

[54fiftyfour]

It is very difficult today. I have difficult to breath and standing, mental confusion, muscular pain, dizziness, pinpricks on face and arms, anedonia, depression, derealization, etc. All together.

 

It's difficult to think that all this ends and a person can resist without doing nothing.

 

On the other hand, I have been sleeping more (even six hours) for a few nights and I have much less motor agitation at dawn.