Doctorsrcrap: can't cry and frustrated

[Altostrata]

I don't understand why you're fooling around with propranolol while constantly complaining about how bad you feel. If it's controlling some of your symptoms, it makes no sense at all to go off it.

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Altostrata

You originally told me to come off of it and then you told me off for not coming off it quickly enough. 

To be honest I'm confused by the advice.

If you read back over this you told me off several times for still actually taking it. 

I'm so confused but I plan to slowly taper the remaining dose. 

[Altostrata]

Pretty sure we've been over this before, maybe several times. You were taking a very high dose of propranolol and complaining of symptoms that might have arisen from that. We suggested you reduce it.

 

Then you complained about increased symptoms that propranolol might have been masking. We suggested you stop tapering propranolol so as to experience the benefit of a more reasonable dose.

 

Generally, if someone is messing with their drugs and complaining about their symptoms, we tell them to stop messing with their drugs. This has been going on for 12 pages so far. If you want to cause your own problems, continue to do what you're doing. We can't stop you from this.

[bambam]

@Altostrata Hi Alto. Why must Proproanolol be tapered? I was not aware it needed to be since it isn’t a psych drug. Does it cause psych like symptoms or is it more to prevent a blood pressure spike?

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Altostrata

You told me to reduce it. I did. My original starting dose was 10mg. Was trying to get back there. I'm not trying to make my own problems. I've done as told and tried my best. I dont really understand why you are always telling me off. I want off because whst if the propranalol is causing the issues. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Atnyxoxo

Propranalol mist be tapered because of rebound blood pressure 

[Altostrata]

10 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

@Altostrata

You told me to reduce it. I did. My original starting dose was 10mg. Was trying to get back there. I'm not trying to make my own problems. I've done as told and tried my best. I dont really understand why you are always telling me off. I want off because whst if the propranalol is causing the issues. 

 

Do you not understand that our advice changed when the circumstances changed? That's why we ask people to check in, so we can see what's going on. You know perfectly well we told you to stop reducing propranolol some time back.

 

Please do not tag me again.

[Doctorsrcrap]

You freaked me out before with your comments about it could be causing issues and that I shouldn't be on it anymore so i just wanted off of it. How am I supposed to know what's causing what at this point. I cant even be bothered to argue with you anymore. You have decided yourself that I'm an idiot so I'm just wasting my breath 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

You freaked me out before with your comments about it could be causing issues and that I shouldn't be on it anymore so i just wanted off of it. How am I supposed to know what's causing what at this point. I cant even be bothered to argue with you anymore. You have decided yourself that I'm an idiot so I'm just wasting my breath 

 

Just a thought, Doctorsrcrap, but you may not want to take everything we say in a single comment as your sole strategy for getting off these drugs. The process is complex and relies on dialogues throughout your thread and sometimes a change in tapering advice is offered.  This comment here is what shifted the discussion from "time to get off the drug" to "time to hold":

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:26 AM, Doctorsrcrap said:

The only thing the reduction of propranalol has done has made me more jittery and more erratic heart. 

 

On 2/28/2023 at 2:09 PM, Altostrata said:

If this is bothersome, perhaps you might stop tapering propranolol for the time being.

 

The erratic heart symptom is very worrisome when coming off propranalol and is a definite sign that your system isn't handling the reductions well. But you continued to taper in spite of the advice to hold. If you re-read page 11 of your thread, you'll see where Alto recommended holding several times and stated the "jittery and more erratic heart" symptoms as "a warning sign."

 

On 4/7/2023 at 3:24 AM, Doctorsrcrap said:

Because I want off of it. My husband came home from the hospital and I thought let's try and get down a little further. 

My plan is to get off that and supplement with magnesium instead for a while but I dont want to be using both. 

At the end of the day I just want off of all prescribed drugs.  I want to be done with it. 

 

I just re-read your thread from when this discussion happened and it looks like you're rushing your taper. I would urge you to let your symptoms guide you. You've had a lot of additional stress - your husband was hospitalized and you lost a pet. These are major stressors. 

 

It's okay to hold. I don't know what you mean by not wanting to be on both magnesium and propranolol. If you're getting a paradoxical reaction from taking them both, it's likely because they're both sedating. You can minimize a paradoxical reaction by spacing them out. But please note that magnesium is not a fix for too rapid a propranolol taper. 

 

Getting off the drugs, or as you say, "I want to be done with it," doesn't work that way. The more you rush your taper, the more likely you are to suffer further out with withdrawal symptoms. 

 

 

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Shep

Thank you. I realise now that maybe ive gone too fast. But i was freaked out after being told that it could be harming me. I've also had a lot going on and think ive just been very flustered. 

I'm sorry I've annoyed people. Wasn't my intention. 

I will come off the remainder at a slower pace now.

I apologise to @Altostrata also. Sometimes talking yo people over text format we csnt always interpret tone and things can get heated. I do appreciate all the help offered. 

[Shep]

Sounds like a great plan, @Doctorsrcrap I hope the slower taper (and perhaps some well-deserved hold times) will lessen your symptoms. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

I've been tapering my propranalol by dissolving it in liquid but I just saw online thst you shouldn't do this. Should I be concerned? 

[Doctorsrcrap]

Due to chest pain and shortness of breath and due to poor decisions I will be up dosing my propranalol to 20mg and holding there for a while 

[Shep]

 

21 hours ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

I've been tapering my propranalol by dissolving it in liquid but I just saw online thst you shouldn't do this. Should I be concerned? 

 

Where did you see this online? Please post a link.

 

3 hours ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

Due to chest pain and shortness of breath and due to poor decisions I will be up dosing my propranalol to 20mg and holding there for a while 

 

How severe is the chest pain and shortness of breath? Is this something you need to get checked out by a doctor? Have you done a Covid test recently? 

 

If this is getting worse and is beyond what you feel is withdrawal related, please check in with your doctor.

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Shep

I have been to see the doctor blood tests all ok and they listened to my heart and said I was fine. So believe it's a mixture of withdrawal and propranalol drops. Will settle at 20mg for the time being and try to calm my system a bit before carrying on dropping 

[Doctorsrcrap]

After a 3 week hold of the propranalol most of the symptoms I attributed to propranalol dropping too fast had resolved itself and was looking forward to if that was still the case in a weeks time I was going to try again to reduce but slower. However this plan is now going to have to wait. This is because I have now just had to start a 14 day course of the antibiotic doxycycline. This is very frustrating and I'm worried it will make my antidepressant withdrawal worse but I dont have much choice in the matter. 

Monday will mark 10 months off of antidepressants.

Symptoms I still have from antidepressant withdrawal and adverse effects are:

Nausea

Muscle problems in neck jaw tongue and face

Agitation 

Restlessness

Feeling of overwhelm 

Headaches 

Buzzing in head

Tension 

Irritable 

 

 

 

[Shep]

@Doctorsrcrap Holding the psych drugs steady while you go the course of the antibiotics is a wise choice. Give yourself plenty of self care and time to heal from the infection. There's no rush to taper. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

I won't do anything with the propranalol yet. Too many other factors in play. 

Not too happy about taking an antibiotic. I specifically told them I didn't want one from the cipro class but not sure I'm happy with doxycycline either. Trying not to worry about it being dangerous but I did some research on it and don't really know how safe it is. I also had to have 2 tetnus shots. Very frustrating all of this. 

[Shep]

It sounds like you may have had quite an injury to require all of that, @Doctorsrcrap. Please take whatever measures you and your doctor feel are best to get you well in the long term. Again, try not to worry about not being able to taper and know that you're taking the measures you need to take to heal. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

I'm not so much upset about the taper and more the fact i need to take the anti biotic because I know they can be dangerous. To be honest feeling very battle weary. 

It's a silly injury really. I keep pet rats and one of them bit me. Very annoying. I've had him 2 and a half years and he has never bitten me before. 

So yeah just battle weary. Things just keep happening and putting me on the back foot. 

Anyway sorry for the rant 

[Doctorsrcrap]

Just to mark the occasion: 

10 months off Antidepressants today. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

So I just wanted to right an update and get people's opinions on my situation. 

So I'm concerned I dont get waves and windows. I dont get windows. I'm always in a wave. I'm hoping that not everyone gets waves and windows and that it's possible for you just to get gradually better instead. 

Also what I've noticed is I have one bunch of symptoms normally my weird throat issue, tongue problems etc and then those disappear for a time when it switches to terrible gastro problens in my chest and back like severe trapped wind but there's never any wind and no relieving it either. When that finally stops my other problems come back. Is that a normal thing? At first these gastro issues woukd occur months apart but thry have started getting closer and closer together. Now it can be weeks or days.  Is this a good thing or bad thing? I dunno.

I have done changes to my diet over this process to cut out reasons my digestion might play up but none of its made a difference. 

Anyway I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts. 

Thanks in advance 

[Shep]

4 hours ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

Also what I've noticed is I have one bunch of symptoms normally my weird throat issue, tongue problems etc and then those disappear for a time when it switches to terrible gastro problens in my chest and back like severe trapped wind but there's never any wind and no relieving it either. When that finally stops my other problems come back. Is that a normal thing?

 

Yes, the morphing, waning, increasing, and changing nature of these symptoms are very normal. There are a number of areas of the brain and the body affected by the drugs and by the removal of these drugs, so the rebuilding process is ongoing and over a number of systems. 

 

Also, most of us have other medical conditions in need of treatment over the course of withdrawal and recovery, so those drugs also hit various systems of the brain and body, such as your recent exposure to an antibiotic for an injury. But as you heal from that and continue your taper, the brain and body, through neuroplasticity and time, will get better. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

Ok I would like to get some advice because I dont want to make anymore stupid mistakes. 

My question being.... when woukd it be ok to attempt to get off the propranalol again? 

I've now held up my updosed anount of 20mg for 5.5 weeks now and I would say the problems caused by going to fast have on the most part dissapeared. Obviously I'm still suffering with my AD withdrawal but that's nothing new. 

So when should I try again. Hold longer? Try a small cut? 

I honestly dont want to mess up again. 

Thanks in advance lovely people 

[Shep]

@Doctorsrcrap Do you feel like you're at a stable and tolerable baseline after your injury and the antibiotic? If you feel you've given yourself enough recovery time and you are at a state of "withdrawal normal," you may want to do a test of, say, 3% reduction and see how you do. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Shep

Thank you for the response. The smallest decrease I could manage accurately as a test would be 5%  maybe i will try this to test the waters. 

Will keep you posted 

Thanks again 

[Shep]

49 minutes ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

The smallest decrease I could manage accurately as a test would be 5%  maybe i will try this to test the waters. 

 

How are you doing your taper so that 5% is the smallest decrease you can take? I believe you're doing a liquid taper, but correct me if I'm wrong. If so, you can increase the amount of liquid you're dissolving your drug into and / or you can get a smaller syringe to measure your dose. 

 

It's okay to do a 5% decrease, but I'm concerned that as you get to the lower doses, your current method won't let you continue with the smaller amounts. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

I am using a scale but the smallest decrease it van cope with is 1mg at a time. 

At this point I had planned just to do 1mg or 2mg decreases but with longer holds. 

I do believe that you don't have to go as slowly with these tablets providing you dint get rebound blood pressure issues so slightly different to the AD taper. 

Every time I do a decrease I measure my pulse and blood pressure to check its all still ok. 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

I am using a scale but the smallest decrease it van cope with is 1mg at a time. 

 

What is the brand and make of the scale you're using? 

 

22 hours ago, Doctorsrcrap said:

I do believe that you don't have to go as slowly with these tablets providing you dint get rebound blood pressure issues so slightly different to the AD taper. 

Every time I do a decrease I measure my pulse and blood pressure to check its all still ok. 

 

True, with Propanalol, it is more about the rebound symptoms as it affects blood pressure, but hopefully there's a way you'll be able to do a slower taper should you need to, especially since your brain/body has already been through so much with psych drugs. It's possible that the Propranalol may be masking some of the antidepressant PAWS symptoms, so you may need to go slower than, say, someone who never was exposed to psychiatric drugs. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Shep

I would hope doing longer holds than I was doing previously would help and be a better way forward from here on out. Doing it slower should hopefully let my body adjust easier. I think I struggled last time too because life was chaos and I was overwhelmed. As you could probably tell. 

Lets hope going slightly slower will be more successful.

Thank you so much for your help. You are so kind 

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Altostrata

I just wanted to say thank you. I just saw the panorama documentry on the BBC here in the UK and i was very proud to see you talking about it on mainstream TV. 

Well done! 

You have done such good work and I'm actually so emotionally to have seen that on the TV tonight. 

Thanks again for this website and everything you have done. 

[Doctorsrcrap]

So tomorrow is my birthday and my present is its also my 11th month off of antidepressants. Yay! 

Current symptoms:

. Throat problems, it's so weird. Its changed from how it used to feel and now feels like I've swallowed a tube of deep heat. So weird. I also feel like there's a weird nerve feeling connected from my throat to my chest. This symptoms are so hard to explain!

. Restlessness/agitation

. Gastro issues 

. Weird nerve problem in one foot 

. Get worn out easily

. Buzzing in my head but I think its getting quieter but don't wanna jinx it. 

Anyway just thought I should do an update.

[Doctorsrcrap]

So frustrated and don't know what to do. I was having my usual cascade of withdrawal issues but the problems I attributed to propranalol drops had all resolved after holding for 2 months so I thought happy days I will try to reduce very slowly off the remainder. Just as I decided to taper my next pet died and a doctor found a problem with my breast and now I'm waiting for an appointment at the breast clinic. I'd also had a very busy week and probably over did it on the activity front.

What has now ensued is breathlessness again and feeling so worn out. Should I just accept the fact for now that reducing propranalol just isn't an option? 

I don't know whether I feel like this because I did a 5% reduction or if I just over did the activity with other problems then happening on top. Feel a bit defeated. Really thought I might be able to try again or do I just give up for now. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Doctorsrcrap
Can someone move this to my thread? I don't know how it ended it up in this one! Sorry

[Tala]

Hi @Doctorsrcrap I just woke up and read your message. Please don't feel discouraged, you know that all of our withdrawals come in waves and you know for a fact that you will feel okay again since you just mentioned you were JUST starting to feel better. (So we know for a fact you are capable of feeling better it's just a matter of time). But this is something we all have to deal with, the ups and downs of withdrawals. 

 

I just looked up proprandol since I wasn't sure what type of med it is. It seems like a beta blocker, so how can you get withdrawals from this? is this normal? I mean it's not an addicting drug is it? In any case, if it is working and you don't have side effects from it, why are you trying to stop it? See, I am not encouraging you to stay on any drug, but if you found ONE drug that is safe and you have zero side effects from it, and you feel good when you take it, I don't see why it should be stopped. I only encourage people to stop medication IF there is a valid reason to do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong for someone to take medication if it makes them feel better and gives them a better quality of life. 

 

In my opinion you should try to take a step back and wait on the tapering of proprandol and see if it's making you feel good then why stop it? In the meantime, please try doing EFT tapping daily and breathing exercises. I have a downloaded app for the breath-work and I try to do it 5 minutes a day. I'll send you the link to the tapping exercise I do as well (I do these twice daily)

 

It helped me a lot. What also helped me was EMDR therapy, have you tried that? It was life changing for me. 

 

I will be traveling for the next five days I am actually going on a retreat with my close friend to connect with nature and do some breathing exercises, meditation, massages, yoga etc because of all the trauma my body has been through the past 6 months, hoping this will help my body heal. But I will make sure I check my email to see how you are doing. Please feel free to message me any time. You are not alone we are all here with you I promise, Just please ground yourself that you are on the path of recovery no matter how long it takes, that you are patient and that you are not alone. We will fight this together. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doctorsrcrap]

Sorry @Tala i wasn't meant to post this on your thread but i cant move it to my own. I didn't mean to. I don't know what happened there. 

I was put on propranalol for anxiety not a blood pressure issue and I know long term it can be bad for you. So at some point would like to get off of it. At the end of the day it was made for blood pressure problems so why take it. The only reason to taper slowly is to reduce blood pressure rebound. Things like that. 

Anyway sorry again for accidently hijacking your thread! 

 

[Shep]

@Doctorsrcrap and @Tala Please note I moved your recent posts off Tala's thread and placed them here in Doctorsrcrap's thread, per her request, as this conversation was accidentally on the wrong thread. 

 

On 6/23/2023 at 5:43 PM, Doctorsrcrap said:

So frustrated and don't know what to do. I was having my usual cascade of withdrawal issues but the problems I attributed to propranalol drops had all resolved after holding for 2 months so I thought happy days I will try to reduce very slowly off the remainder. Just as I decided to taper my next pet died and a doctor found a problem with my breast and now I'm waiting for an appointment at the breast clinic. I'd also had a very busy week and probably over did it on the activity front.

What has now ensued is breathlessness again and feeling so worn out. Should I just accept the fact for now that reducing propranalol just isn't an option? 

I don't know whether I feel like this because I did a 5% reduction or if I just over did the activity with other problems then happening on top. Feel a bit defeated. Really thought I might be able to try again or do I just give up for now. 

 

Yes, it's best to hold right now and let yourself recover from all of these stressors. It's okay to pause a taper and in the long run, most people feel they're better off for taking the time to rest. Please take extra good care of yourself while you go through the medical appointment and any testing you may need.