Thorin: withdrawal from Latuda

[Thorin]

Monday. Bad

Maybe 5 hours sleep?

Tinnitus on wake-up. Feel reasonable.

0830 0.125mg clonazepam.

0915 magnesium and avocado 

1030 breathwork and hot/cold shower

1115 health smoothie 

1130 feel emotional, physically weak, hard to concentrate or think. Feel like I want to break down and cry. Feel like my nerves are shot. Physically shaking today.

1300 0.125mg clonazepam. Symptoms are slowly settling however they are still pronounced.

1430 tinnitus really bad today. Still feel really fatigued and headache back.

1530 just remembered that as I was falling asleep last night I was experiencing increased head sensations and dizziness, almost brain zaps very similar to what I’ve experienced when coming of AD in the past. I guess this is a pretty bad wave, but not as bad as the last one (that has decreased in severity and merged into this one). Hanging out for a window!

1715 some watermelon and a cup of black tea

1745 still quite a low mood. It’s better than a few weeks ago but seems stuck where it is at the moment.

1830 loud sounds are much more irritating at the moment

1930 14mg Lurasidone. Curry for dinner. Have eaten pretty healthily today.

2200 fish oil, magnesium

2230 0.125mg clonazepam 

[Shep]

8 hours ago, Thorin said:

Hi @Shep not sure if this is appropriate but just seeking a little reassurance right now. I’ve been holding for a few months now. Admittedly my taper was way too fast prior to holding and symptoms got pretty out of hand for a while. What is bothering me is that rather than getting better despite holding, my symptoms just seem to morph and change, but I always have some symptom (usually multiple). While the symptoms are changing they’re not necessarily easing up at all. Am I right in thinking of what I’m experiencing as being similar to having CT? Albeit not as bad and will hopefully resolve faster as I’m still on the meds? Just in the last few days almost all my symptoms have become ‘head’ symptoms in addition to insomnia and low mood. Just feeling a little lost. Not seeking to have you make me feel better so much as making sure this is normal after a too fast taper and that my brain will eventually catch up to the changes it’s experienced and then I’ll be able to start the taper at the correct pace. Thanks for your time.

 

Again, I would clean up your diet before doing anything else or wondering what else it could be. You're worrying about symptoms over the recent days, but your journal includes some unhealthy foods which may very well be triggering symptoms. Thanks for your honesty in posting that, as it will help you know what is causing what. 

 

There's not a lot we have control over during withdrawal, but what we put into our bodies in the way of diet and drinking plenty of water are two ways we can definitely help the withdrawal process along.

 

If cleaning up your diet is going to be very difficult over the holidays, you may want to simply do the best you can until the holidays are over and then start fresh. 

 

15 hours ago, Thorin said:

Thanks @Shep and @j1290

 

i had made that very decision while I was lying in bed last night Shep. Back to only healthy food. My nap yesterday lasted 2.5 hours so I’m assuming what I experienced was exhaustion/tiredness.

 

thanks

 

Great idea! Let us know how you're feeling over the coming days as your diet improves. But again, if you're surrounded by family and doing a lot of baking, etc. and want to wait until after the holidays to eat clean, that's okay, too. Just keep in mind that upticks in symptoms are normal when not eating healthy and focus on doing better in the future, which it sounds like you already are doing. 

[FireflyFyte]

Just popping in to offer some support, Thorin. Hopefully eating healthier will result in you feeling better though it can be difficult to do especially around the holidays.

[Thorin]

9 hours ago, Shep said:

Again, I would clean up your diet before doing anything else or wondering what else it could be. You're worrying about symptoms over the recent days, but your journal includes some unhealthy foods which may very well be triggering symptoms. Thanks for your honesty in posting that, as it will help you know what is causing what. 

Thanks Shep, no point in being on here if I’m not going to be honest. Apologies if you had to repeat yourself. I get a little panicked at times. I don’t mean to be a pain. I appreciate you taking the time to help me. Starting yesterday I have gone back to a healthy diet. I am feeling small improvements this morning.

 

9 hours ago, Shep said:

There's not a lot we have control over during withdrawal, but what we put into our bodies in the way of diet and drinking plenty of water are two ways we can definitely help the withdrawal process along.

Anything I can do to help this process is very welcome!

 

9 hours ago, Shep said:

But again, if you're surrounded by family and doing a lot of baking, etc. and want to wait until after the holidays to eat clean, that's okay, too. Just keep in mind that upticks in symptoms are normal when not eating healthy and focus on doing better in the future, which it sounds like you already are doing. 

I don’t think there will be a lot of sweets and we’re having a very small Christmas this year but I will see how we go. I actually feel bad on a few levels when I eat unhealthy stuff these days so have a lot of motivation to do the right thing. The sugar cravings can get pretty intense at times though which I think may be due to meds as I’m normally more of a savoury person. Interesting all the ways they can affect you.

thanks again for your help. I’ll keep posting my log and how I’m going.

cheers

[Thorin]

6 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

Just popping in to offer some support, Thorin. Hopefully eating healthier will result in you feeling better though it can be difficult to do especially around the holidays.

Thanks FfF. I always appreciate it when you drop by. I saw your other post and I think doing some work with your therapist around your anxieties about reducing and what you’re going through is a great idea. I think I will do the same. The more support we have the more successful we will be in this. Let us know how you go!

[Thorin]

Wow! Watching Medicating Normal (difficult to find in Australia). Very triggering but excellent and validating. All of us should watch it!

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Thorin said:

The sugar cravings can get pretty intense at times though which I think may be due to meds as I’m normally more of a savoury person.

 

When you say "savoury," are any of the foods you're eating high in glutamate, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter? 

 

Since you're doing such a good job of wanting to clean up your diet, just want to check in on anything that can cause an uptick of symptoms, and glutamate can definitely be a trigger for many people going through withdrawal. 

[Thorin]

28 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

When you say "savoury," are any of the foods you're eating high in glutamate, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter? 

 

Since you're doing such a good job of wanting to clean up your diet, just want to check in on anything that can cause an uptick of symptoms, and glutamate can definitely be a trigger for many people going through withdrawal. 

Hi Shep,

in answer to your question I have no idea. I will have a good look into this and get back to you. 
Thanks

[Thorin]

Hi @Shep

That was quicker than I thought it would be. So I don’t tend to eat a lot of foods that are high in glutamate and when I do i don’t eat them in large quantities. I will keep an eye out for when I eat things like tomatoes and mushrooms etc in the future to see how I feel though. Today I’ve eaten very well then caved and had a small ice cream in the evening (I’m definitely improving!) and I noticed that my anxiety increased after having the ice cream. This has confirmed for me that refined sugar is having a negative impact on me and that I need to really continue to focus on my diet.

[Thorin]

Tuesday ok

6 hours? Tinnitus present but a little less 

0830 0.125mg clonazepam and mag.

0930 have a fluttery agitated feeling in chest that I’d normally associate with anxiety.

0950 breathwork. Increased tinnitus

1100 weird. Feel unnaturally calm…. Avocado and some fish

1150 anxiety ramps up whenever I have to speak to anyone, start to get sensations in my head when this happens.

1300 0.125mg clonazepam

1330 iced latte

1415 health smoothie. Tolerated coffee well. It improved my mood and made me feel a bit motivated. Wouldn’t drink it on bad days I don’t think.

1900 piece of pickled fish, some pickled chillies, some walnuts

1930 14mg Lurasidone. Curry and rice for dinner. Nothing processed and no refined sugar today.

2000 0.2ml CBD:THC oil. 

2100 tinnitus hasn’t been too bad today. Just noticing it come back now. Had a small icecream and noticed my anxiety increased afterwards

2230 0.125mg clonazepam 

[Thorin]

Wednseday 

5 hours sleep. Tinnitus on wake-up but not overwhelming

0830 0.125mg clonazepam 

0945 magnesium and coffee

1100 health smoothie 

1145 coffee effecting me quite strongly today

1300 0.125mg clonazepam 

1500 stick of kabana. Tinnitus a bit louder this afternoon.

1630 some mussels. Feeling pretty fatigued today

1830 was able to have a nap again today

1930 14mg Lurasidone. Steak and vegetables for dinner

2030 tinnitus quite loud. Definitely have a mild depression or anhedonia. I spend most of my time in my bedroom lying in my bed.

2115 just can’t feel any happiness or joy at the moment. It’s like there a wall between me and that feeling. I’m trying to do things I used to enjoy and I just feel……. Nothing.

2230 0.125mg clonazepam. Emotional anaesthesia strong

[FireflyFyte]

15 hours ago, Thorin said:

2115 just can’t feel any happiness or joy at the moment. It’s like there a wall between me and that feeling. I’m trying to do things I used to enjoy and I just feel……. Nothing.

 

I really struggled with this during my withdrawals from Latuda. It seemed like the only thing I could feel was anxiety and every other emotion was just unavailable. It's tough to try to handle as activities that would normally uplift us have next to no effect. I hope this cloud lifts for you soon and you can return to some level of enjoyment.

[j1290]

Hey Thorin, how's things mate?  

[Thorin]

7 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

I really struggled with this during my withdrawals from Latuda. It seemed like the only thing I could feel was anxiety and every other emotion was just unavailable. It's tough to try to handle as activities that would normally uplift us have next to no effect. I hope this cloud lifts for you soon and you can return to some level of enjoyment.

Thanks FfF. I’m sorry you went through that but I’m happy to know that it’s not just me. I don’t experience this all the time but it does happen a lot. It’s very hard to endure feeling like that isn’t it. I can’t wait to feel real pleasure and happiness again.

[Thorin]

7 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

I really struggled with this during my withdrawals from Latuda. It seemed like the only thing I could feel was anxiety and every other emotion was just unavailable. It's tough to try to handle as activities that would normally uplift us have next to no effect. I hope this cloud lifts for you soon and you can return to some level of enjoyment.

I’m assuming from the way you phrased it that it passed eventually?

[Thorin]

32 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Hey Thorin, how's things mate?  

Tired mate, and up and down. Hoping for a few less symptoms in the new year

[j1290]

12 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Tired mate, and up and down. Hoping for a few less symptoms in the new year

 

I hear you, it would be nice to take a vacation from tapering now and then.  Keep your chin up, this time next year, this might all just be a fading memory!  

[Thorin]

15 minutes ago, j1290 said:

 

I hear you, it would be nice to take a vacation from tapering now and then.  Keep your chin up, this time next year, this might all just be a fading memory!  

Imagine that! Would be amazing. How are you?

[Hanna72]

Hey @Thorin

Nice to meet you.

I know this journey is exhausting and tiresome and sometimes we don’t believe enough. Let me tell you I believe in you and there is a reason why you are amongst this amazing community. 
Don’t be hard on yourself, take it one day at a time, that’s all we can do. You will become successful, dont think anything less. Our minds are so powerful. Feed it with positivity and believe in that you are doing this for a reason. You will get there. All great things take effort and perseverance.

Let’s go Thorin 💪( love the name thorin by the way)

 

[Thorin]

4 minutes ago, Hanna72 said:

Hey @Thorin

Nice to meet you.

I know this journey is exhausting and tiresome and sometimes we don’t believe enough. Let me tell you I believe in you and there is a reason why you are amongst this amazing community. 
Don’t be hard on yourself, take it one day at a time, that’s all we can do. You will become successful, dont think anything less. Our minds are so powerful. Feed it with positivity and believe in that you are doing this for a reason. You will get there. All great things take effort and perseverance.

Let’s go Thorin 💪( love the name thorin by the way)

 

Hi Hanna72. Thanks for the kind message. Just a bit burned out I think. I’m sure I’ll pick back up. As I’m sure you know the symptoms can wear you down at times. I just need a good window to replenish me and then I can continue on this journey. I appreciate the message.

[Hanna72]

You are welcome @Thorin

 

I get it, I really do.

I jus wanted to encourage you because sometimes all we need is a bit of push. I usually go to YouTube and listen to encouraging words, and that most of the time ( not always) gets me thinking out of my negativity. If it doesn’t, then hey I tried 🙏

[Thorin]

20 minutes ago, Hanna72 said:

You are welcome @Thorin

 

I get it, I really do.

I jus wanted to encourage you because sometimes all we need is a bit of push. I usually go to YouTube and listen to encouraging words, and that most of the time ( not always) gets me thinking out of my negativity. If it doesn’t, then hey I tried 🙏

A agree, sometimes all it takes is a kind word and we realise we’ve got the strength to keep going after all because someone cares. Not feeling alone is the most important part of healing I think. Thanks 😊 

[Thorin]

Thursday bad

Not sure of sleep. Woke up tired as always. Tinnitus.

0830 0.125mg clonazepam. Goal today is get up and do some jobs. Not lie in bed all day.

1015 iced latte

1115 breathwork

1130 hot/cold shower

1200 avocado and macadamia nuts and magnesium 

1230 feeling mildly breathless and dizzy today. Second coffee to see if it helps with motivation

1300 0.125mg clonazepam. Tinnitus loud today.

1400 health smoothie 

1530 so coffee is not going to work. Too much anxiety and racing thoughts. Have to find the willpower to propel me out of the bedroom if I can. At least I know now.

1715 0.3ml CBD:THC oil

1930 14mg Lurasidone. Fish and chips for dinner. Not healthy but today did me in.

2015 tinnitus is so loud tonight

2215 some chocolate, fish oil and magnesium 

2230 0.125mg clonazepam. Feeling slightly better. Laughed a bit. Ate some chocolate even though I’m trying hard not to

[j1290]

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

Imagine that! Would be amazing. How are you?

I read that time tends to help with healing from these pills, so fingers crossed for both of us for next year!

 

Had to take 1/8th Xanax to knock out this headache for a while.  It was worth it, but I think taking these things is big time playing with fire in my case.   I feel way too good.  

 

Somebody posted that after being on pills for decades, the brain needs more time than you'd think to re-adjust to not having them.  That sounds like an inconvenient truth to me.   

[Thorin]

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I read that time tends to help with healing from these pills, so fingers crossed for both of us for next year!

I would say things are definitely changing over time. It’s slow going though. Next year will be better. 2022 was a big year!

 

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Had to take 1/8th Xanax to knock out this headache for a while.  It was worth it, but I think taking these things is big time playing with fire in my case.   I feel way too good.  

Be VERY careful with Xanax. You only need to take it a few days consecutively to become addicted. I believe even taking it regularly but not on consecutive days can cause WD when you stop. I have to admit I’ve been wondering whether there’s anything I can take or do to help me improve a bit. It would have to be natural though. 

 

8 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Somebody posted that after being on pills for decades, the brain needs more time than you'd think to re-adjust to not having them.  That sounds like an inconvenient truth to

It makes sense doesn’t it. And yes it is inconvenient lol. Time, time, time I guess….

 

Hopefully you holding for a bit will mean the headaches etc ease of and give you some breathing space.

[j1290]

1 minute ago, Thorin said:

You only need to take it a few days consecutively to become addicted.

 

Sounds about right.  I think A certain doctor said to limit use to 2 x per week or else you can get hooked.  I limit my use to when the only other option is going to the emergency room, which fortunately hasn't been a lot, lately.  You got off of 2 mg of these?  I feel a little crappy right now coming off of what I took today, I have to imagine that getting off of 2 mg must have been next level difficult!!!

15 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Hopefully you holding for a bit will mean the headaches etc ease of and give you some breathing space.

I was doing pretty good till today, tolerably crappy.  I was hoping that just maybe I'd reduced enough to not have these headaches anymore when holding, but evidently not.    Good information to know, and sometimes experience is the only teacher in these things, in my opinion.  

 

21 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I have to admit I’ve been wondering whether there’s anything I can take or do to help me improve a bit.

I hear that!   I think only Fish Oil and Magnesium are suggested suppliments around here.   I take those, and I think fish oil definitely helps a little.  Right now I'm going to try NAC suppliment but honestly I've spent a few hundred bucks on suppliments and none of them did too much for me, granted I probably didn't take them right.   

[Thorin]

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

ounds about right.  I think A certain doctor said to limit use to 2 x per week or else you can get hooked.  I limit my use to when the only other option is going to the emergency room, which fortunately hasn't been a lot, lately.  You got off of 2 mg of these?  I feel a little crappy right now coming off of what I took today, I have to imagine that getting off of 2 mg must have been next level difficult!!!

Actually it wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be but I was really buffered by the other med I was taking which helped me through WD. There’s still a little bit of the Benzo taper left to do (not much). I’m expecting it will be difficult without the other drug to buffer it.

 

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I was doing pretty good till today, tolerably crappy.  I was hoping that just maybe I'd reduced enough to not have these headaches anymore when holding, but evidently not.    Good information to know, and sometimes experience is the only teacher in these things, in my opinion.  

Do you get headaches every time you hold? I wonder why. That’s interesting. May be worth asking a mod?

 

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I take those, and I think fish oil definitely helps a little.  Right now I'm going to try NAC suppliment but honestly I've spent a few hundred bucks on suppliments and none of them did too much for me, granted I probably didn't take them right.   

I’ve heard good things about NAC. I tried it and didn’t notice anything but I may have been taking a cheap brand and I’ve found that you need good quality supplements for it to work. I’ve seen a lot of people stick to just mag and fish oil (which makes sense) but then a lot of other people find that some other things help them. It seems to be very individual. I think the advice the give here about only trying one thing at a time and starting with a small dose to see how you react it great advice. I was going to try ginkgo biloba for the tinnitus but I chucked it in the drug interaction database and it interacts with one of my meds so not going to risk it. Let me know how you go with the NAC.

[j1290]

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

Do you get headaches every time you hold? I wonder why. That’s interesting. May be worth asking a mod?

Thanks, man, that's a good idea.  Maybe I'll do that in my intro thread!

 

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

Let me know how you go with the NAC.

I forgot about the Ginko, I think I tried that or something else for the tinnitus and it made my face flush.  Yeah I've tried a few things that people swear helped them, and they didn't do anything for me, but admittedly I probably took them wrong.   You have a good point, everybody has a different metabolism and whatnot, so who knows what might work.  

[Thorin]

Seems I’m having a much needed window today where I’m feeling 70% ok. Man I must come across like a crazy person yo-yoing up and down all the time. I’m going to try and relax into the window but won’t be holding my breath that it will stick around. Surely it is a sign that healing is slowly happening though. 

[j1290]

16 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Seems I’m having a much needed window today where I’m feeling 70% ok.

It is nice, isn't it?  On those rare occasions I kinda don't know what to do with myself.  It's a welcome change of pace!

 

18 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Man I must come across like a crazy person yo-yoing up and down all the time.

You're in good company!  😂

 

18 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Surely it is a sign that healing is slowly happening though. 

Are you having higher lows, or more good days?  That's more or less my gauge of how my taper is going and whether or not I need to make adjustments.   

 

Really glad to hear you're feeling better!   Seize the day! 

[Thorin]

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

is nice, isn't it?  On those rare occasions I kinda don't know what to do with myself.  It's a welcome change of pace!

It is nice and same, not quite sure what to do with myself. I drove my daughter to the restaurant she works at for her shift and decided to stay and have something to eat which I hadn’t done in ages. Just going with the flow while I feel ok.

 

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

You're in good company!  😂

Haha thanks. After seeing all the people on here and other sites I no longer think of other people as crazy. Just myself 😉

 

8 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Are you having higher lows, or more good days?  That's more or less my gauge of how my taper is going and whether or not I need to make adjustments.   

 

Really glad to hear you're feeling better!   Seize the day! 

So I’ve had two days about a week apart where I am ‘ok’. Not great, but good enough. The other days have been pretty aweful to be honest. I’m keeping an eye on it all and hoping for an increase in the number of ‘ok’ days. Once they become a bit more predictable in that I know they are coming I will probably start my taper again. Hoping to do that some time in January. Are you interstate yet?

[j1290]

4 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I drove my daughter to the restaurant she works at for her shift and decided to stay and have something to eat which I hadn’t done in ages.

This sounds quite comfy.  You're a very lucky man!  

 

5 minutes ago, Thorin said:

So I’ve had two days about a week apart where I am ‘ok’.

Nothing like WD to make a guy appreciate feeling less than terrible LOL  I just take it a day at a time, sometimes an hour at a time and try to make the most of it.  

 

7 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Are you interstate yet?

I had to reschedule my flight, so I leave in the AM.  I tell myself it worked out OK because this was the roughest day I've had in quite a while, better it happen while I'm at my own home.   Less stress.   Soon, my friend, we'll have more good days than not.  Speaking of which, how are your symptoms for whatever condition led you to ADs in the first place? How's the therapy and EMDR going?  

[Thorin]

2 hours ago, j1290 said:

I had to reschedule my flight, so I leave in the AM.  I tell myself it worked out OK because this was the roughest day I've had in quite a while, better it happen while I'm at my own home.   Less stress.   Soon, my friend, we'll have more good days than not.  Speaking of which, how are your symptoms for whatever condition led you to ADs in the first place? How's the therapy and EMDR going?  

Ah that’s good. Gives you a bit longer to recover from the day. Absolutely we have better days coming. Therapist is away for a few weeks so having a break which is welcome to be honest. Therapy’s been brutal lately

[FireflyFyte]

15 hours ago, Thorin said:

I’m assuming from the way you phrased it that it passed eventually?

 

Yes, but it was after I was put on Zyprexa which I think stopped/lessened my Latuda withdrawals but not advising hopping onto a different antipsychotic as a solution. I still don't feel my emotions strongly but I feel more of a range now and expect I will experience them more acutely once I start my taper.

[Thorin]

8 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

Yes, but it was after I was put on Zyprexa which I think stopped/lessened my Latuda withdrawals but not advising hopping onto a different antipsychotic as a solution. I still don't feel my emotions strongly but I feel more of a range now and expect I will experience them more acutely once I start my taper.

I definitely have periods where I feel them very strongly now, alternating with periods where I feel like they’re completely blocked off. If you go slow hopefully you emotions will return gradually rather than being overwhelming.

[Thorin]

Miraculously I’ve entered a window right in time for Christmas. Not perfect but better than I’ve been in a while. Feeling very great full that I can experience some joy with my family. Merry Christmas everyone!