jjwarf: struggling with post acute withdrawal

[jjwarf]

Hello everyone,

 

I am hoping to get some feedback from someone and possibly some hope. I am attaching my medication history:

Celexa 20mg January 2014- June 2019
Tried to stop cold turkey for a few days in February 2015, resumed normal dose
Zoloft 38.5mg June 2019-August 2021
Weaned to 25 mg
Started Wellbutrin 150mg November 2021
Stopped Wellbutrin cold turkey February 2022
Started Trintellix March 2022
Stopped taking Zoloft after decreasing to about 8mg in June 2022
Discontinued Trintellix July 2022 after having crippling panic attacks
Restarted 12mg of Zoloft July 2022 (panic subsides for a few weeks, then BOOM, right back)
Increased to 18.5mg of Zoloft August 2022, followed same pattern as above. Panic attacks gone for a few weeks and now back full force

 

I have been having horrible, crippling panic attacks for the last few months. I have NEVER had anxiety! I wanted to stop taking Zoloft because of the sexual side effects and I am not even sure I actually needed to be on antidepressants in the first place. I blindly, and ignorantly, agreed to take Zoloft initially because someone said it would help me sleep through a difficult period in my life. 9 years later and here we are. I feel so alone. My doctor thinks I am crazy if I mention post acute withdrawal and wants to put me on more meds. He even offered me benzos knowing that I am in long term substance abuse recovery. 

 

Does anyone out there have any experience with developing panic attacks after trying to decrease/stop ssri's? I am desperate. 

[jjwarf]

I forgot to add that I am currently also taking 10 mg of hydroxyzine at night and sometimes a quarter of 0.1 mg clonidine. The clonidine makes me feel terrible the next day and I'm not sure how well the hydroxyzine is working since I'm still having several panic attacks each day. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi there jjwarf and welcome aboard,

Nice job on your signature and thanks for getting that done while waiting to get started.

 

And yes, plenty of us have experienced WD(withdrawal) symptoms in the form of panic and anxiety.  So.....not alone there. 

 

Did you have any relief of symptoms when you reinstated Zoloft?

Could you give us the date that you reinstated the Trintellix at 5 mg?

Any relief of symptoms since the Trintellix reinstatement?

 

And are you interested in tapering to lowest dose or off your drugs at some point?  We are not here to replace your doctor if that is not the case.  And are not doctors, just volunteer staff and members, who have been through WD or are going through it now.

 

And presently I'm seeing in your signature, at the end this:

July 2022 Discontinued Trintellix,  Restarted 12mg of Zoloft July 2022
August 2022 Increased to 18.5mg of Zoloft 

September 2022 Hydroxyzine 10mg and 0.1 mg Clonidine- discontinued after a few weeks

October 2022 Reinstated 5mg Trintellix

 

And then, alot of changes prior to this even.  This can often result in some nervous system destabilization, the ups and downs of these type of drugs, and then WD mixed with start up symptoms from the drugs, or side effects......and it makes life difficult.

 

Sending hope, hope, and more hope......because this is not insurmountable.  It does take time and patience however. 

I'm going to give you some basics to look at if you have not already while you waited or before.

 

 The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft(sertraline)

 

Tips for tapering off vortioxetine/Trintellix/Brintillex

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

More about WD, and what is going on, WD symptoms, and how stabilization often occurs:

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, or medications to treat WD on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.  

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Non-drug coping for WD symptoms, we have a whole forum devoted to that:

Symptoms and self care forum

 

Specific to panic and anxiety:

sudden-fear-terror-panic-anxiety-or-sensory-overload-from-withdrawal/

 

ways-to-cope-with-daily-anxiety/

 

I'm concerned that you might be experiencing some kindling from the re-introduction of the Trintellix right now.  And so do answer the bolded questions I asked ASAP.  And take a look at this topic too:

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your tapering, give updates, communicate with us, and just keep a record of your journey.

You are now all approved and ready to go.  Welcome again.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

moderator manymoretodays(mmt)

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by manymoretodays
Is to is not, clarity

[jjwarf]

ManyMoreToday,

 

I just saw this reply! Many apologies for the late reply and many thanks to you for taking the time to reply to my post. Since the last time I posted here are the updates:

December 2022- Increased Trintellix to 20mg

Anxiety disappears and all is well until..

May 2023- Anxiety comes back; stop Zoloft and switch to Prozac.

Currently taking: Trintellix 10mg and Prozac 7.5mg

 

I can feel the anxiety beginning to bubble up. I am so frustrated. My doctor acts like post-acute withdrawal isn't possible and that the amount of Zoloft I am on is negligible and she can't understand why I can't just stop taking it.

 

Answers to your bolded questions:

-Yes, once Zoloft is reinstated I feel better for a few weeks or a month.

-I started reinstated Trintellix in October 2022, increased dose to 10mg in December

-I get activation anxiety from Trintellix initially but then I feel better for a few months until the anxiety bubbles back up.

 

Upon a suggestion from a pharmacist friend I started taking 1,500 mgs of magnesium glycinate, a B vitamin, and L-theanine occasionally. They seem to help some. I am going to get a fish oil supplement soon. 

 

I am frustrated and scared. I do not want to continue increasing my dose or constantly changing meds just to be able to function. I don't know that I ever needed antidepressants in the first place. Thank you for this website. I feel not so crazy and alone.

[jjwarf]

Title: A year after tapering I am still experiencing anxiety

I hope I am posting this in the correct spot. I am hoping to get some feedback and support; I feel alone and like no one understands. All of the doctors I've visited act like I am crazy. Here is a summary of events:

2015- Began taking 25mg of Celexa. I was coming off of drugs (I've been clean for over 7 years now! Woot!) and exaggerated symptoms to get this medication prescribed.

2016- Tried to stop cold turkey, reinstated full dose after a few days. Withdrawal was hell.

2019- Became pregnant and was switched to 50mg of Zoloft. I didn't take the full dose every day- I alternated a full dose and a half dose every other day.

At this point I had also tried to quit cold turkey again but felt horrible and quickly reinstated.

August 2021- Tried to stop taking Zoloft. Reduced my dose to 25mgs. Felt awful. Doctor recommended either 200 or 300 mgs of Wellbutrin. I took 150mg regularly and within a few months felt disconnected and wanted to die.

February 2022- Stopped Wellbutrin

March 2022- Started Trintellix 10mg

Began tapering Zoloft again.

June 2022- Completely stopped Zoloft.

July 2022- Started having horrible panic attacks. Quit my job. My doctor thought it could be a bad reaction to Trintellix so we discontinued the Trintellix with no taper. Reinstate about 12 mgs of Zoloft. I felt wonderful for about 3 weeks. Crippling anxiety returns.

August 2022- Increase Zoloft to 18.5 mgs. Feel better for a few weeks, then again anxiety returns and is horrible.

September through October- Tried various drugs to help with anxiety: hydroxyzine, clonidine, propranolol. Nothing helps. New doctor reinstates 5mg Trintellix. Things are good until..

December 2022- Anxiety returns. Increase to 10mg Trintellix. Trintellix has activating anxiety symptoms for about a week then I get months of relief.

May 2023- Anxiety returns. Felt like I would rather die than continue living like this. Doctor switches to 10mg of fluoxetine. I do a water mixture so that the dose is equivalent to my old zoloft dose, so about 7.2mgs. Some relief has happened.

I have also been taking about 1,500 mgs of magnesium for a couple of months, which has helped. I use L-theanine occasionally and it is also helpful. I just recently started taking a fish oil and Vitamin E supplement.

 

Basically, I want to stop taking these medications as I am not sure I ever actually needed them. The anxiety has been horrible and my doctors act like there is no way it could be related to the medication taper. They act like post-acute withdrawal isn't possible. The anxiety is crippling. I don't know what to do and I feel so alone. If anyone has any experience, please share! I am desperate! Thank you all so much for having this website.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Shep
added title after moving from another thread

[Shep]

@jjwarf Please note I moved your last post from the Symptoms & Self Care section.

 

Please continue posting about your symptoms here in your intro/update thread so all of your information is in one place. 

 

On 6/7/2023 at 9:49 PM, jjwarf said:

Currently taking: Trintellix 10mg and Prozac 7.5mg

 

There is a MAJOR drug interaction between these two drugs:

 

Drug Interaction Checker - trintellix and prozac

 

Please list the time(s) of day you are taking your drugs and the dose. Are these the only two drugs you are taking? Are you still taking hydroxyzine? 

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply! I will continue to post about my symptoms. That's interesting about the drug interaction- when we switched about a month ago my provider kind of vaguely mentioned a potential interaction but I was so desperate for relief that I honestly didn't care. My provider wanted to switch me to Prozac AND increase the Trintellix up to 15mg but I didn't want to take more. I did take the full 10mg dose of Prozac for about 5-6 days before really making a decision that I didn't want to increase anymore meds unless I absolutely have to. I felt great those 5-6 days. I haven't noticed any interactions so far with the combined meds. What should I do about that? I have an appointment with my provider tomorrow. I want to tell her that I truly believe all of this is related to withdrawal and I am not crazy. I had my hormones checked recently and they were all normal.

 

Since switching to Prozac I have been feeling better. Only a few episodes of anxiety/panic. Although, I can still feel it bubbling up. When it does, I usually take more magnesium or if I am desperate, L-Theanine.

 

I take the Prozac and Trintellix around 6-8am, depending on when I wake up.

I am not taking the hydroxyzine anymore. Prozac and Trintellix are the only two drugs I am taking.

I have been taking several supplements which I added to my signature. I started taking ashwaganda a few days ago around 6pm and it seems like it may be helping. I'm not sure. I have been feeling better and I want to get off these meds but every time I feel stable and start thinking everything is going to be ok, BAM! I get hit with these horrible waves of anxiety. Then I feel like I am never going to be ok and it is always going to be like this.

[Shep]

Some thoughts on what you're going taking and how you're taking it:

 

• I would space out the Prozac and Trintellix by at least two hours a part. This will help reduce potential drug interactions. 
• I would take everything - drugs and supplements - religiously at the same time of the day every day. You mentioned taking more magnesium and l-theanine at times. It's really best to be consistent as possible and use non-drug coping techniques to get you through waves. 
• I would stop the ashwaganda, since you just started it a few days ago. You just made a drug change, stopping Zoloft and switching to Prozac. We only recommend one change at a time. See - The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

31 minutes ago, jjwarf said:

I have been feeling better and I want to get off these meds but every time I feel stable and start thinking everything is going to be ok, BAM! I get hit with these horrible waves of anxiety. Then I feel like I am never going to be ok and it is always going to be like this.

 

It's possible that the irregular supplement dosing and the change in drugs are causing problems that may not show up right away. The more consistent you can be with both drugs and supplements, the more your nervous system will calm down. 

 

Please note we're a site for coming off these drugs so we aren't able to help you continue to make drug switches. It's very important you learn to cope through waves without adding in new drugs. At some point, you may experience hypersensitivity and even nervous system kindling due to these types of abrupt changes. 

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

Before you start tapering off this current cocktail, I would really spend time here going through the links in this thread:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Learning to float and breathe through your waves is extremely important if you're determined to get off these drugs. You can do this, but please work on learning how to self-soothe without relying on another change in drugs or supplements. 

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

Thank you for taking the time to read what I wrote and respond. It may seem silly, but it means a lot just to have someone actually listen. I think you're right about switching. In the past I have gotten to my breaking point, went to the doctor and switched meds. I am going to read through the suggested threads you sent to me and work on that. I will also stop the ashwaganda. If I am not taking the L-Theanine on a regular basis, only as needed, should I also leave it out? 

How long should I wait before I decide to taper? My ultimate goal is to stop taking both of these medications.

If/when the anxiety comes back, do you think it's best to use non-drug techniques to cope? Sometimes I feel like I just won't be able to function or make it through.

[Shep]

16 hours ago, jjwarf said:

How long should I wait before I decide to taper?

 

Here is a great post that describes when it's a good time to taper:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

16 hours ago, jjwarf said:

If/when the anxiety comes back, do you think it's best to use non-drug techniques to cope? Sometimes I feel like I just won't be able to function or make it through.

 

Yes. The sooner you start practicing these techniques, the better. They don't work overnight, but learning how to do breathing and mindfulness techniques, taking a walk everyday, eating a healthy diet, drinking plenty of water, etc., the better you'll become at making these things a daily habit.

 

Also, distraction can be a powerful tool to keep from spiraling into worsening emotions. 

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

Ok, I am going to check those threads out as soon as I get home. I am spacing the Prozac and trintellix out. I took Prozac this morning and will take trintellix before bed tonight. This morning I also took:

vitamin d- 10,000 iu 

magnesium glycinate- 360 mgs.

 

I will take another 240 mgs of mag with the trintellix tonight.

 

I also wanted to mention and get feedback about my dose of Prozac. When I switched my provider told me 10mg of Prozac is the equivalent of 25mgs of Zoloft. The first few days I was desperate and took that dose but then realized I didn’t want to take more meds. I did a calculation on what the equivalent of 18.5 mgs of Zoloft would be in Prozac and it’s about 7.2. The only way I knew to get that was by on one day taking 3/4 of the tablet and another day 2/3, so I alternate days to try to get an average. Is this okay? Is there a better way? I want to do this right so I can eventually get off of these medications.

[jjwarf]

I met with my provider today. She agreed that it could be post-acute withdrawal and that we shouldn't change anything. We looked into a liquid dose of prozac but it has sucralose and alcohol in it, both of which I am sensitive to, so we decided to stick with the water mixture of the capsule.

 

I was wrong in what I posted earlier about my dose of magnesium. I was taking 3x 120 mg capsules in the morning and 2 capsules at night but I've been taking two 400mg in the morning and afternoon. Here is a timeline of my day. I am going to stick to it.

 

Morning:

Alternating 7.5 mg and 6.6 mg of Prozac in the morning. (Hoping to get an average of about 7.2- if there is a better way to do this, please help!)

10,000 IU Vitamin D

800mg Magnesium Glycinate

 

Evening:

10mg Trintellix

800 mg Magnesium Glycinate

2x 690mg capsules of Omega 3 Fish Oil

400 IU Vitamin E

 

I felt good this morning. I worked out, went to a meeting, and saw my doctor. Anxiety feels like it's bubbling up and my mood isn't great this afternoon. I am managing it and have been trying different breathing techniques.

[Shep]

19 hours ago, jjwarf said:

I also wanted to mention and get feedback about my dose of Prozac. When I switched my provider told me 10mg of Prozac is the equivalent of 25mgs of Zoloft. The first few days I was desperate and took that dose but then realized I didn’t want to take more meds. I did a calculation on what the equivalent of 18.5 mgs of Zoloft would be in Prozac and it’s about 7.2. The only way I knew to get that was by on one day taking 3/4 of the tablet and another day 2/3, so I alternate days to try to get an average. Is this okay? Is there a better way? I want to do this right so I can eventually get off of these medications.

 

The Prozac to Zoloft equivalency your provider stated tallies up with the journal article Hayasaka, 2015 Dose equivalents of antidepressants: Evidence-based recommendations from randomized controlled trials

 

We don't advise alternating doses like this because it fluctuates the blood level in your system. I would stick to the same dose taken at the same time every day. Your nervous system is seeking stability. This is best over the long term.

 

Also, you did an abrupt crossover of two drugs with different half lives. Prozac has an extremely long half-life. You can read about that in the first post in this thread:

 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

So it takes a long time for Prozac to fully build up in your system. I would get on the same dose every day and then give yourself a couple of months - or longer - to stabilize before even considering a taper. 

 

I'm unclear about your current dose. In your signature, you have 7.5 mg Prozac but in your latest post, you state 7.2 mg. What dose are you on now? If you made a reduction from 7.5 mg to 7.2 mg, please update your signature with this information. 

 

12 hours ago, jjwarf said:

I met with my provider today. She agreed that it could be post-acute withdrawal and that we shouldn't change anything. We looked into a liquid dose of prozac but it has sucralose and alcohol in it, both of which I am sensitive to, so we decided to stick with the water mixture of the capsule.

 

Since you're moving from cutting the tablets to using a water mixture, you'll be able to target more precise measurements and hopefully won't need to alternate your doses going forward. 

 

Please post if you have any questions as you make this transition. The instructions for transitioning from tablet to liquid are here:

 

 Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

You may want to transition gradually from tablets to liquid, taking 25% in liquid and 75% tablet for a few days, 50/50 split for a few days, 75% liquid and 25% tablet, and then going 100% liquid. 

 

NOTE: Do not decrease your dose as you transition from liquid to tablet. Only one change at a time and changing from tablet to liquid is a change. Please see:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

12 hours ago, jjwarf said:

10,000 IU Vitamin D

 

This is a high dose of Vitamin D3. Are you also taking K2 with it? If not, please research vitamin D3 and the importance of adding in K2 with high dose vitamin D3. 

 

Some people find vitamin D3 to be stimulating but if you've been on this for a long time and your system is used to it, you may do fine. Here is the thread we have on D3 here on the forum:

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

Please post if you have any questions as you transition from tablets to liquid and let us know how you're doing. 

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

I will update my signature- it should be 7.2 mgs of Zoloft. It must have been a typo. I have a 10mL medicine syringe. From what I read on the other posts it looks like I can add 10mL of water to my 10mg capsule of Prozac and be able to easily pull 7.2 mgs since it's an even amount of mgs/mls. I don't know why I have been making it so complicated and this is such an easy solution to get an accurate, stable dose. Thank you for the links.

 

I have been on a full water mixture dose for about 3 weeks now. Before that, when I was still taking Zoloft, I would take half of a 25 mg tablet and do a water mixture with the other half to get a dose of 18.5 mgs.

 

I didn't realize what a long half life fluoxetine has! I knew it was longer than the others but wow! I agree with you about giving myself at least a couple of months to stabilize. I am ok right now but I feel very on edge. My moods are swinging all over the place. One minute I am fine, the next I feel a wave of anxiety, back to fine and repeat. It still isn't as bad as it has been before but I feel like I am constantly just waiting to get hit hard. Although, this morning when I felt it coming on I tried a breathing technique and kept telling myself, "this is what healing feels like. I AM going to get through this. It's just a feeling and it will pass." And then it did pass.

 

That's interesting about the K2. I had no idea about that. Do you think it's ok to add the K2 in now? Or should I wait? That's interesting what you said about a high dose of Vitamin D being activating. I've been taking the higher dose for about a month and it did seem like my anxiety got worse during that time. Should I continue to take the high dose or go back to my original dose? I was originally only taking on 5,000IU capsule per day.

 

Thank you so much for continuing to help me. It feels like such a relief to know that I am not crazy, other people have gone through this and made it. Your suggestions also give me hope that if I just take them and hang on it will eventually be ok.

 

I will start doing accurate dosing using the medicine syringe tomorrow.

Today so far:

 

Morning

630 am: Zoloft and Magnesium

Felt good, then around 920am anxiety. Back and forth since then.

[Shep]

20 hours ago, jjwarf said:

That's interesting about the K2. I had no idea about that. Do you think it's ok to add the K2 in now? Or should I wait? That's interesting what you said about a high dose of Vitamin D being activating. I've been taking the higher dose for about a month and it did seem like my anxiety got worse during that time. Should I continue to take the high dose or go back to my original dose? I was originally only taking on 5,000IU capsule per day.

 

K2 is what helps the Vitamin D3 go where it should, so if you're continuing on with D3 at high doses, I would go ahead and add it in. You may notice that a lot of vitamin D3 tablets are sold as a D3/K2 mix. You may want to research this to get the appropriate kind of K2 (there's more than one) and at the right ratio to go with the amount of D3 you decide to take. 

 

Why are you on such a high dose? Did you test low on vitamin D3 and are trying to get your levels up?

 

20 hours ago, jjwarf said:

Although, this morning when I felt it coming on I tried a breathing technique and kept telling myself, "this is what healing feels like. I AM going to get through this. It's just a feeling and it will pass." And then it did pass.

 

Awesome, jjwarf. Please keep up the breathing techniques and any other non-drug coping skill that gets you through the waves. It will pay off in the long run as these techniques go from habit (in about 21 days) to a part of your lifestyle (in about 90 days) if you keep practicing them daily. 

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

No, I didn't show low vitamin D. I have a pharmacist friend who suggested a high level and I blindly listened a while back when I was desperate. Do you think I should continue with the high dose? I can't say that I've seen any benefit from it but I know it's been mentioned here a lot about only one change at a time.

 

I started with the more accurate dosing this morning. At 7am, I used a 10ml medicine syringe to pull 7.2 mgs. I think that you're right about keeping things consistent so that my nervous system gets some stability. I also took my dose of 800mgs of magnesium glycinate. So far, I am feeling ok. I have faith that I will eventually stabilize and be able to start a taper.

 

I am going to continue with the breathing techniques and I am going to go meditate after I post this. 

 

Do you or anyone else have any tips for how to cope with naturally stressful things when your anxiety peaks? I have a toddler and I feel awful when he is being wild and it feels like I just cannot deal with it in that moment in the most appropriate, loving way. Then I beat myself for not being able to be the mom I think that I should be. My job duties are going to change in the next week or so and I will be interacting with a lot more people and I am afraid of that as well. I try to not project and get in my head about it, but sometimes I do and it doesn't feel good.

[Shep]

21 hours ago, jjwarf said:

No, I didn't show low vitamin D. I have a pharmacist friend who suggested a high level and I blindly listened a while back when I was desperate. Do you think I should continue with the high dose? I can't say that I've seen any benefit from it but I know it's been mentioned here a lot about only one change at a time.

 

I don't know enough about supplements to be able to offer advice and it's really best to get your levels checked before adding in anything at a high dose in order to do what's safe. If you do decide to make a change in this supplement, I would hold everything else for at least a couple of weeks. 

 

I know it's frustrating when you're trying to get on with a taper, but these kinds of holds and the "one change at a time" tends to save people loads of time over the long run. 

 

21 hours ago, jjwarf said:

Do you or anyone else have any tips for how to cope with naturally stressful things when your anxiety peaks? I have a toddler and I feel awful when he is being wild and it feels like I just cannot deal with it in that moment in the most appropriate, loving way. Then I beat myself for not being able to be the mom I think that I should be. My job duties are going to change in the next week or so and I will be interacting with a lot more people and I am afraid of that as well. I try to not project and get in my head about it, but sometimes I do and it doesn't feel good.

 

I would let your symptoms be your teachers and your guides. Please go through the first post in this thread and pick out a few things you feel will be helpful.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

You're already doing great by learning and practicing breathing techniques. Many of us find that learning how to handle neuro-emotions can be extremely helpful for dealing with stressful situations, as stress can ramp up neuro-emotions. Please see:

 

Neuro-emotion

 

You may also want to check out the threads on the Relationship thread, as there are folks chatting about getting through withdrawal while parenting young children.

 

Relationships and social life

 

Make sure to schedule enough downtime and if you have close friends or family who can help out, you may want to reach out for their support. 

 

Helping family understand

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

Ok, I'm going to read through those threads. Thank you!

 

Today I am feeling ok so far. I have noticed after I take my morning meds (Zoloft and magnesium glycinate), I feel a little off- kind of spaced out and tired. I have also noticed since starting Prozac that the emotional numbness is present. Outside of a few emotions like anxiety, I feel pretty flat. That just further encourages me that I do not want to stay on these medications. Its crazy how much they effect us.

 

I usually feel better in the afternoons after I take my evening meds: Trintellix 10mg, 800 mgs mag, vitamin E, and fish oil.

 

I was able to take my son to the fair for several hours yesterday evening and didn't have any real anxiety, which feels like a win.

[Shep]

20 hours ago, jjwarf said:

I have noticed after I take my morning meds (Zoloft and magnesium glycinate), I feel a little off- kind of spaced out and tired.

 

Do you mean Prozac (not Zoloft)? In your signature, it states "May 2023- Stopped Zoloft and switched to Prozac 7.2mg."

[jjwarf]

@Shep

 

yes, I meant prozac! Sorry about that.

[Shep]

2 minutes ago, jjwarf said:

@Shep

 

yes, I meant prozac! Sorry about that.

 

No worries. Just wanted to be sure. 

 

Very glad you were able to take your son to the fair. It's great to celebrate these types of wins. 

[jjwarf]

06/17

 

Morning:

Prozac 7.2

Magnesium glycinate 800IU

 

Evening:

Trintellix 10mg

Mag 800IU

Fish Oil

Vitamin E

 

Felt ok. Had a wave of anxiety in the morning. Did some breathing techniques and made it through. Felt good at the end of the day.

[jjwarf]

6/18

 

Morning, 7am:

7.2mg Prozac

800IU Mag

 

Evening, 5pm:

10mg Trintellix

800IU Mag

Fish Oil

Vitamin E

 

Overall, I have felt pretty ok today. This morning I felt slightly anxious right after taking my meds. I also felt pretty grumpy most of the day. I made myself talk to a friend and do breathing techniques and meditate. Things are much better this evening.

[Shep]

Looks like you're stabilizing, @jjwarf. 

[jjwarf]

I haven't posted in a while. Things have been going pretty well for the last few weeks. I had some really amazing moments where I felt like things were going to be ok. I have still been doing the same routine every day:

 

Morning, 7am:

7.2mg Prozac

800IU Mag

 

Evening, 5pm:

10mg Trintellix

800IU Mag

Fish Oil

Vitamin E

 

I really think that the consistency has helped tremendously with stabilizing. When I look back on how all over the place my dose of Prozac had been, plus the fluctuating doses of mag and l-theanine, it's no wonder my nervous system was freaking out. I had noticed that when the anxiety would come back and I would try to add in L-theanine as needed, it really seemed to amplify the anxiety. Like, it would initially help but then things would get worse. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else?

 

The last few days the anxiety has been bubbling back up. I have been doing breathing techniques and trying to distract myself. They have helped, thank god! I'm not sure if it's a wave coming back or if my diet has anything to do with it. I have been on summer break from college & transitioning to a new role at work- I took that to mean that this was a good time to binge eat a bunch of sugar and carbs. Terrible idea! I know that even when I am feeling good they tank me and make me feel like crap. I've been eating foods I don't normally eat for about two months. A few days ago I decided to try to pull myself back together and get back to eating foods that actually make me feel good. Regardless of the source of the anxiety, I am so glad I found this community! I cannot tell you all how much better I feel just knowing that I am not crazy and that this WILL eventually get better.

 

Question:

I don't plan on beginning another taper until December when my classes go back on break. Once I decide to taper again, should I continue tapering Zoloft or Trintellix? I've read on here about the 10% rule of tapering but honestly, I am afraid even that may be too fast for me. Can I taper smaller amounts? For example, I am on 7.2 mgs of Prozac, can I taper 0.2 mgs at a time?

 

Thank you all so much for all of the support and guidance. 

[Addax]

4 minutes ago, jjwarf said:

Question:

I don't plan on beginning another taper until December when my classes go back on break. Once I decide to taper again, should I continue tapering Zoloft or Trintellix? I've read on here about the 10% rule of tapering but honestly, I am afraid even that may be too fast for me. Can I taper smaller amounts? For example, I am on 7.2 mgs of Prozac, can I taper 0.2 mgs at a time?

The general rule of thumb is to taper the the drug that is the most stimulating first or is causing more side effects. But between Prozac and Trintellix,  I’m not sure which one that would be, but perhaps you know from your experience of both. I recommend checking out the thread Which drug to taper first. 

 

you can always go slower. I’m tapering Fluoxetine (Prozac) and recently slowed to 0.1mg drops every 4 weeks. And after some stressful professional tasks are in the rear view, I’ll likely try 5% drops every 4 or 5 weeks.  It’s about your tolerance for symptoms and listening to the feedback your body gives you. I tried doing the brassmonkey slide, which is Essentially small drops every week for 4 weeks then holding, but found it a bit too fast, and because of fluoxetine’s long half-life, it was hard to know which drop (5 weeks ago? Three? One?) was resulting in the increase in symptoms.  I remained functional, but I was uncomfortable enough that I decided to Slow down to stabilize. It did the job and while there has been a bump here and there, they’ve been manageable and I’m stable. 
 

And for sure, the work transitions and diet change can cause an uptick in symptoms. As can various supplements. Our bodies/brains tend to become more sensitized to changes/stressors during tapering, among other things.  It’s no fun, but listening to your bodies feedback and adjusting accordingly helps a lot.  The few changes you make, on any level, the better.
 

Your decision to hold until school break sounds like a great move. 
 

[jjwarf]

@Addax

thank you for your reply. 
for the last month or so I have had a really amazing window. Things felt wonderful and I had some really beautiful moments full of gratitude for my life.

The last couple of days I have been feeling a wave coming on and I am scared. I decided to start dating again and a hard, stressful semester starts in a couple of weeks. I’m not sure if that triggered it or if it would have happened anyway. I’m trying to stay in the moment and try breathing techniques. I woke up this morning so angry at everything and my body feels like it’s vibrating. Doing those things and getting on here and talking about it are all I know to do. Any other suggestions? 

[Kelsears]

@jjwarf

For me walking helps. I walk twice a day 2 miles each time. Baths with epson salt to relax my muscles. 
I hope this is a short wave for you. Hold on hun! 

[jjwarf]

@Kelsears

 

Thank you so much! I'm going to go for a walk in a few minutes and see if that helps. I had been wondering how you were doing :)

[Kelsears]

@jjwarf

all things considered I’m doing ok. I found out I have hashimoto disease, inflammation on my brain, and my body is not producing estrogen or testosterone. Which I believe are all side effects from the withdrawal. I started tapering my Ativan and that seems to be going well. I’ve only had 1 wave day this month. So I’m feeling so grateful for

that. 
 

I’m happy to hear you’re having more windows. Feel free to message anytime if you need to chat. 

[jjwarf]

@Kelsears

I'm glad that you're doing ok with everything you've had going on. Especially since you started tapering the Ativan. That's great news! Thank you

[jjwarf]

8/1/23

Woke up angry and felt like my body was vibrating. Anxiety getting high.

 

11am- went for a walk and watered all of my plants. Feeling better around 1pm. Plan on taking another walk this evening.

 

 

[Addax]

10 hours ago, jjwarf said:

The last couple of days I have been feeling a wave coming on and I am scared. I decided to start dating again and a hard, stressful semester starts in a couple of weeks. I’m not sure if that triggered it or if it would have happened anyway. I’m trying to stay in the moment and try breathing techniques. I woke up this morning so angry at everything and my body feels like it’s vibrating. Doing those things and getting on here and talking about it are all I know to do. Any other suggestions? 

Waves can be very scary. They are not like any other experience. And definitely, anticipatory stress can trigger a wave just like any other stressor. I mean, the wave might have hit anyway, but stressors don’t help and can muck things up. I’m also sorry to hear about the irritability and vibration. Both are common experiences during tapering and withdrawal, and just suck. 
 

It’s hard to know what can help. Grounding and attentional training techniques to take you out of your head and thoughts, breathing techniques can help reduce stress, light exercise, like walking or yoga.  Movies and TV can be good distractions, and good sleep hygiene and sleep are very important. 
 

Hopefully the wave will be small and pass quickly. The important thing is to try and remember that they do come to pass, hence why they’re called waves and not walls. 

[jjwarf]

I wanted to check in. Since my last post I have had a pretty good window. The wave passed relatively quickly. I felt great the last few days but woke up today feeling the vibrating sensations again and on edge like I am about to get hit with another wave of anxiety. I am so grateful for this site and for past experiences of knowing that it WILL pass! It hasn't been as bad as it has been in the past. 

 

Its interesting, I had just been thinking that maybe it was time to start a taper and then my nervous system quickly reminded me that maybe I am not ready for that. Sigh! 

[jjwarf]

Has anyone struggled with their feelings being all over the place? I have had a pretty good period of stability but the last few weeks have been a rollercoaster. I'll be perfectly fine, happy even, in the mornings and then almost unable to function in the evenings because I am so sad or just numb. Earlier today I felt so happy, almost elated, and then bam! I feel intense anxiety and sadness. I had to lay down and still feel like I am shaking.

 

Anybody?

[Shep]

@jjwarf Yes, withdrawal is definitely a roller coaster for many people. You may find these links helpful from the non-drug coping skills thread:

 

UNUSUAL AND OVERPOWERING EMOTIONS
 
Neuro-emotion

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

Coping with irritation, anger, and rage
 
Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Sometimes, if the experience is really painful or intense, being able to distract until the emotions settle down can be very helpful. Here's a great technique:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Any kind of mindfulness practices you can incorporate throughout the day are helpful. Most importantly, it's good to not fixate on your thoughts, but simply let your thoughts pass without engaging with them, knowing this is a harmless symptom, frightening, but still harmless. As my favorite YouTube guru Mooji says, "Your thoughts are just visitors and you are NOT a hotel. Just let them pass." Most anxious states occur not from the thought, but from our reactions to the thoughts. While we can't choose our thoughts, we can choose our reactions. 

 

And sometimes it's possible to reframe stress in a more helpful and healthier way. This is a great TedTalk: 

 

How to make stress your friend | Kelly McGonigal (video 15 minutes)

 

If you can look at these intense, stressful withdrawal symptoms as opportunities to practice your mindfulness skills, that kind of gratitude can make the experience less scary. By the time we recover from withdrawal, having the opportunity to practice this again and again make us able to handle anything that life throws our way. 

 

Learning some of these techniques may help you surf through the "all over the place" emotions and come to a more even baseline.