Fifree introduction

[Fifree]

Hi everyone. First time posting but I’ve been reading a lot of your stories over the last week. Thanks to you all for sharing, the mods for their feedback and the amazing resources that have been prepared. 
 

I’m 60 and have struggled with anxiety for most of my life but always felt like it was my own fault. I’m sure we’ve all been told that we need to be more resilient/less sensitive etc - as if that ever helped anyone, but I digress. 
 

My antidepressant journey began in 1995 when I tried Zoloft for post natal depression. It didn’t make me feel “better” but I didn’t want to kill myself anymore, so I guess it was better than nothing. Dr told me to get off it after 6 months so I did. Didn’t notice any changes. 
 

Quit my job and decided to move back to my home city and was prescribed Cipramil by a psychiatrist. When I first started it it honestly made me a bit manic I think and I decided to blow up my life further by splitting up with my husband. I went along happily on Cipramil for a while, got a new job and a new partner. Tried to quit cold turkey when I got pregnant again but was so loopy my dr told me the benefits outweighed the risks and I should stay on it through the pregnancy.  
 

My baby was born perfect in 2004 so all was well but my depression continued. At some point I had to stop Cipramil because of concerns about urination (one of those rare side effects). Psych tried me on Effexor because she thought the norepinephrine might help. I hated it and had to have a washout period of about 2 weeks before I could start a new something new. 

So about 2005 I started Lexapro. I was told it’ll be great cos it’s related to Cipramil and that worked well for me before. I can vividly remember the feeling as it literally hit my brain after the hellish washout period from Effexor. Such a relief. Started at 10 mg.
 

In 2009 I got right into mindfulness meditation and it helped me immensely. I got healthy in body and mind and decided I was well enough to taper off Lexapro. By this time I was seeing my local dr (here in Australia we call them GPs or General Practitioners) for my prescriptions because the mindfulness had helped so much I stopped seeing the psych. But when I needed a new prescription to finish out my taper, I just got a lecture instead. That it was perfectly ok to stay on antidepressants long term and some people just need them. The amount I was taking at that time was well below the therapeutic dose and I should either stop or keep taking 10 mg a day. I liked my GP ( and he’d clearly drunk the coolaid) so I listened to him and went back up to 10 mg daily. 

 

Life happened and my mindfulness and fitness fell away and by 2017 I was falling back into a hole. My new GP told me to up my dose to 20 mg so I did, with minor improvements. 
 

By 2019 I was having suicidal ideation again. 2020 was rotten for everyone and I got burnt out at work and went on long term sick leave. GP tried me on 30 mg of Lexapro but it made no difference so I dropped back to 20. I started seeing a psychiatrist in late 2021 and he put me backup to 30 mg. Minor improvement and I’m a compliant patient. 
 

Late 2022 I stared reading about inattentive ADHD in relation to one of my daughters and realised the description fitted me to a t. I asked psych about it and he gave me a trial of dexamfetamine. I felt great and all my mood issues disappeared overnight. I forgave myself for all my “character flaws” (untidiness, lack of staying power, procrastination etc) cos they’re all just down to adhd. I cut myself back down to 20 mg of Lexapro almost immediately and it made no difference to me whatsoever. I still felt great.I stayed on that for about 6 weeks. Went back to psych and told him about my experience with dex and he upped my prescription of that and wrote me a prescription for a lower dose of Lexapro - 10 mg. So I dropped to 10 mg. First 7 days I was completely fine - getting back into yoga and mindfulness, keeping on top of my budget - fabulous. Then on about day 8, while doing yoga, I suddenly felt like I was gonna throw up and I was sweating profusely. Spent the next three days either on the sofa or in bed feeling dizzy and nauseous. My mood is still fine although I do find myself a little bit hyper vigilant. 
 

I used my time on the sofa wisely though and investigated discontinuation syndrome and came across this amazing site and realised that a drop from 20 mg to 10 was hopelessly ambitious. Even the Harvard guidelines for tapering suggest going from 20 to 15. So I’ve learned a lot in the last few days. 
 

I was so ill - just nonfunctional - that I decided to go back up. I took 20 mg yesterday to try and level myself out a bit and am planning to stick to 15 mg for a few days and see how it goes. 

 

That’s the main highlights of my antidepressant story. There are a couple of other bits that may be worth mentioning. I very briefly tried an MAOI in about 1998. Before it even had a chance to work on my mood, I took a sinus tablet and that was a disaster. Always read the label kids. I felt like I was literally going to explode both physically and mentally. Absolutely horrible. As I regularly get sinusitis and accompanying headaches, MAOIs were off my treatment plan immediately and permanently. The other thing I should mention is that a couple of times when my script has run out I’ve gone 4 days without any problems, but then suddenly on day 5, I’m irritable, weepy and get brain zaps. 
 

thanks for reading. 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Fifree.  Thanks for completing your signature.

 

We're a site for tapering psychiatric drugs.  Do you want to taper off or reduce your Lexapro?  Do you want to taper off or reduce your Dex?  If you want to stay on your drugs, that's of course your decision. If so, however, we're not the right site for you.  You might want to try a site like PatientsLikeMe.com.

 

What is your current dose of Dex?  Please add this to your drug signature.

 

You've made many changes in Lexapro dosage over the past year, especially over the last month. We strongly advise against jumping around in dose.  This causes the concentration of the drug in your blood to go up and down, which batters the nervous system and puts you at risk of destabilization.  It's like playing ping-pong with your brain.  

 

Based on your signature and your post, this is your recent schedule with Lexapro:

 

Mid-December, 2022:  dropped from 30mg to 20mg and held there for 6 weeks

Jan. 23, 2023: dropped from 20mg to 10mg

Jan. 27: increased to 15mg 

Jan. 28: increased to 20mg

Jan. 29 (today) planning to hold at 15mg for a few days to see how it goes

 

Your nervous system needs stability, which is not served by frequently changing doses.

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This link is specifically about tapering Lexapro, including how to get the nonstandard doses needed for a 10% taper.

 

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

On 1/27/2023 at 9:46 PM, Fifree said:

The other thing I should mention is that a couple of times when my script has run out I’ve gone 4 days without any problems, but then suddenly on day 5, I’m irritable, weepy and get brain zaps. 
 

 

This is antidepressant withdrawal, the avoidance or mitigation of which is the reason why we recommend a very slow taper.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can answer my questions, ask further questions and connect with other members.  Once you've answered my questions, we can, if you wish, talk about a plan for drug tapering.l

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fifree]

Thank you very much for your reply and advice Gridley. I definitely want to get off drugs - Lexapro first. The more I read here the more toxic it sounds. I feel so bad for everyone else struggling here. 
 

I dropped from 20 to 10 mg on my drs advice and sat there for 8 days before getting symptoms. It wasn’t until day 10 that I found this site and its advice on the 10% rule. As I’d gone 10 days on 10 mg, I took one 20 mg on day 11 to give it a boost and then have sat on 15 mg since - days 12, 13 and 14. Things have improved a lot and I’m going to stay on 15 mg for the remainder of this 28 day period.
 

As long as I’m back to normal by then, I’ll reduce to 13.5 mg. I see my dr again in early March and will ask him to prescribe the liquid (if we can get it in Australia). Meanwhile I will try and make my own liquid to get small reductions.
 

Then I’ll be tapering sticking to the 10% rule. 
 

thank you

 

Fifree 

[Gridley]

14 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I’m going to stay on 15 mg for the remainder of this 28 day period.
 

Sounds good, Fifree.

 

14 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Meanwhile I will try and make my own liquid to get small reductions.

If you switch to your own liquid or a prescription liquid, we recommend doing a gradual crossover from the pill to the liquid so that your system is not jolted by the change.  You might not be able to get the exact percentages perfect, but here's a guideline:

 

3/4 pill, 1/4 liquid for 3 to 7 days

half/half for 3 to 7 days

1/4 pill, 3/4 liquid for 3 to 7 days

all liquid thereafter

 

Don't taper while doing the crossover.  Hold at the dose you were at when you started the crossover until you've competed the cross.

 

Most people do fine with liquid but some don't.   If all is well, then you can proceed  with your 10% taper using the liquid.

 

What do you want to do about the Dex?  We recommend tapering only one drug at a time.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Gridley

[possum]

Hi, @Fifree, I just read your introduction and came to this site in a similar way. I’ve been on 20 mg Paxil for many years and discovered this site after about a year long battle with myself about whether or not to stay on an SSRI. I joined up a week or so ago, and just started a 10% taper off of the Paxil. So, you’ve got company here. I’m on 18 mg now and so far, so good. I did a crossover between the pill and liquid and am still taking 10 mg in pill form and the rest in liquid form. I look forward to watching your progress.

[littlebird]

Welcome, glad you're here!

[Fifree]

Thank you so much @Gridley, @littlebirdand @possum. It’s so great to have the support on here and read the success stories. Ive been reading your stories and it’s nice to meet people in the same part of the journey as me as well as the success stories. It helps to calm my rush to have this over with when I can read stories of 5 years of careful tapering coming to an end. I can’t tell the mods and admins how much I appreciate all the work you put in. 
 

Today is day 15 of my ignorantly overambitious (but revised) taper. I’m going to sit on this 15 mg of Lexapro for at least 14 days and keep my Dex at its current level until I’ve beaten the Lex. I wish I could change my username to LexnDex but understand the mods have better things to do. 
 

I’m feeling a lot better although still a little wobbly. It’s mainly physical symptoms for me at this point with dizziness and fatigue. As I’m retired (medical retirement due to burnout/depression/anxiety in 2021) I’ll cheerfully take fatigue over insomnia. Although from what I’ve read on here, insomnia could be waiting for me just around the corner. Better just buckle up and expect the unexpected I guess. I’m getting on with a few of the chores around the house that piled up while I was suffering from vertigo/nausea/sweats. A little weeding in the garden, cleaning up the kitchen, poop patrol (I have 2 doggies), running the Roomba, tidying up clutter (never ending). So that makes me feel a little better. I actually made it out of the house yesterday and met some good friends for coffee. I told them what was going on and they were very understanding. I doubt they know how long it’s going to take esp given I’ve been on and off this stuff for 27 years.

I stopped for groceries on the way home and felt very proud of myself for functioning somewhat. Unfortunately, I bought some junk food - a big bag of Twisties (a favourite Aussie snack - something like Cheetos) and chocolate coated jellies and ate most of them. Of course I have a food hangover today and that’s led me to make some self care resolutions for this journey - at least partially inspired by the very wise 3 KIS. 

 

• Keep regular hours
• Take meds on exact schedule - set alarms for this
• Stick to Mediterranean diet as much as possible
• Gentle movement every day - 5 mins stretching is better than nothing
• Take note of the positive symptoms of the WD as well as the negative 
• Use the AC as much as want need to. I’m a big fan of fresh air but as it’s terribly hot and humid at the moment where I live, I’m running the AC a lot. I need it to make my whacky temperature fluctuations tolerable at the moment. I have solar power so during the day at least it costs me nothing to run and does no harm to the environment 
• Cook n freeze healthy food when I feel well  to get me through the times when I feel ill
• Take the pressure off myself to “achieve” things. Getting off drugs will be an achievement. 

 

That’s it for the time being, but I’ll probably keep adding to my list.  Tonight I’m going to try out joining a local choir that my cousin’s in. It will be my first uneasy social outing for over a week.  I cancelled everything last week when I got so unwell but need to live my life. I admire everyone here who manages to go to work at the same time as tapering. I still have a child at home and hats off to all the parents out there, people caring for elderly parents etc. 
 

thank for reading

 

fifree 

 

 

[littlebird]

38 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I wish I could change my username to LexnDex but understand the mods have better things to do.

 

Lex’n’Dex is a super fun name, makes me think of twins who do roller derby.

 

39 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Better just buckle up and expect the unexpected I guess.

 

You’ve got it! Very unexpected changes, but for me, extremely positive ones. Definitely still surprised all the time, but as they say, “Buy the ticket, ride the ride.” At least we’re not in it alone!

 

41 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Take the pressure off myself to “achieve” things. Getting off drugs will be an achievement.

 

That. Part. Figuring this complicated stuff out, making changes, and doing the internal work that arises are all huge achievements along the way to the huge achievement of getting off pills. Cheer yourself on often along the way, and please give yourself lots of credit for wins big and small!

[possum]

@FifreeThose  self-care resolutions are really smart. I've been having to force myself to get out and walk (it's winter here) for exercise. I wouldn't mind if it weren't so cold and gray. These gray, miserable days do not help! I think today will be gentle stretching. 

[Victorias]

Yes, Im walking too. Some days are hard, but struggling 

[Fifree]

Day 16

 

I’m still feeling a little off balance and spacey but vastly better than I was a week ago. My mood is still fine thank heavens but I have a feeling of anxiety in my body which I can’t really explain.  I’m trying to breathe my way through it (grateful for having done mindfulness practice) so I can leave the feeling in my body and not buy into it with my mind. Does this make any sense? Can anyone provide any advice on what this is?

 

I’m sleeping really well which is a great mercy. Sleep is the best escape from this stuff for me. 
 

Ive been reading a lot on this site and around the web especially after @j1290pointed me to the Horowitz work on sert occupancy with SSRIs. I also came across this study https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.161.5.826#F1 which has similar charts.  I am dismayed.  Even a 10% taper is going to be way too fast at the end when it all just falls off the cliff.  With my first reduction from 30 to 20 mg which I didn’t even notice, I only dropped about 2% of brain occupancy. Now I’m on 15 mg which is a further 2% (ish) and I am noticing that for sure. The next drop to 13.5 mg won’t be too drastic but once we get down around 10? Then it really plunges and 10% drops will be HUGE in terms of brain occupancy eg 5 mg to 4.5 mg is still gonna be 2% and it’s gonna get worse from there. Look at that last little bit - 1 mg gives you about 20%!!!

Anyway for anyone who hates graphs and maths and doesn’t get what I’m on about, sorry for the rant. Long story short, I can really see now what a long road this is going to be. I need a nap. 
 

I’m a little cross at the dr who told me that I should either quit CT or go back up to 10 mg 10 years ago when I was at a really low dose. I WAS tapering because my personal experience with my body and brain told me that I needed to, but he was there with his big old certificates on the wall and his quiet authority telling me I was speaking nonsense. I know he was just spouting the official guidelines and didn’t know any better, but OMG. I will listen to my own body from now on. 

[j1290]

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

I am dismayed.  Even a 10% taper is going to be way too fast at the end when it all just falls off the cliff.

No doubt, there was a grieving process for me when confronted with the data.  I think it rocks everybody's world.  

That said, the only thing that dictates the speed of my taper is what I can tolerate.   I'll go faster or slower than 10% as I can.   And eventually, I'll be done.  I found it to be like the worlds least fun hobby.  

 

 

[Fifree]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:40 PM, j1290 said:

 And eventually, I'll be done

These are the words to live by. Thanks for dropping by John. I’m kind of addicted to this forum atm and I keep reading the stories of overambitious tapers that lead to complete reinstatement or, far far worse, long periods of crushing instability. I’m gonna keep reading until I get all these cautionary tales into my brain. There’s a little devil on my shoulder telling me I can go faster - that I’ll be in the 44% who have no problem, that’s practically 1:1. So your advice when you’re in the thick of it, taking it slow and steady is really helpful. I know you say you get snappy with people at work sometimes, but you’re unfailingly supportive and helpful on here. Thanks. 

[Fifree]

Taper 2, day 17

 

Today’s been pretty good. I woke with a cracking headache but that may have just been from sleeping with the AC on. We having a bit of a heatwave here atm and it’s super humid. As I type, it’s 9:45 pm and 26 degrees C (around 80 F) with humidity of 87%. It’s truly gross for sleeping. It’s gonna be 36 degrees C (97 F) tomorrow. I’m over it. But February in Brisbane is always the pits. 11 months of nice weather a year got me spoiled. 

 

I’m still feeling a little lightheaded, but it’s much improved. I didn’t feel up to going to my yoga class today though. A round of sun salutes would make me pass out right now. I’ll have to find some online yoga that sticks with lying/sitting or standing. I cannot do the up and down and inversions right now. My poor head just won’t tolerate it.
 

But I’m able to do chores again - a bit of weeding, cleaning up the kitchen, doing the washing. I even managed to wash my hair today which was lonnngg overdue. I’ve honestly been spending most of my time reading and trying to learn from the stories of hope and heartbreak here. My heart goes out to everyone here.  I also read a lot of the guides over on The Inner Compass today.
 

At some stage though I have to get back to my life. This level of inactivity is not going to do me any good. So tomorrow my big aspiration is to run some errands - get to the pool shop to get the water tested, go to the pharmacy to refill my scripts. Buy supplies to make liquid lex and start switching over to liquid before my next taper. Nothing major. But functioning I hope. 

[j1290]

31 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I’m kind of addicted to this forum atm and I keep reading the stories of overambitious tapers that lead to complete reinstatement or, far far worse, long periods of crushing instability.

IMO this is really, really important stuff.   The stories of too fast tapers or the least pleasant CT are enough to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  

 

33 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I’m gonna keep reading until I get all these cautionary tales into my brain. There’s a little devil on my shoulder telling me I can go faster - that I’ll be in the 44% who have no problem, that’s practically 1:1.

haha yeah exactly this!  I think it's human nature and addressed in the thread on 'why taper 10%'  I read studies and bupropion is always one of the easiest to discontinue, or there isn't enough data.  I'm planning for the long term, and not-so-secretly hope that it won't apply to me. 

 

38 minutes ago, Fifree said:

So your advice when you’re in the thick of it, taking it slow and steady is really helpful.

I had to be reminded of this a lot.  I made tons of mistakes, in a wide variety of ways LOL

 

40 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I know you say you get snappy with people at work sometimes, but you’re unfailingly supportive and helpful on here. Thanks. 

Oh, I defo get snappy at work.   It just usually stays within the confines of my head, or when I speak it's translated into SFW words.  Took me a long time to get to this point, and the burned bridges light my way haha!  But yeah at the worst WD days I get frustrated and irritable.  I also edit my posts and re-type them a bunch of times LOL. I appreciate that, Fifree.  I try to return a little of the kindness that's been shown to me here.   

 

I'm super impressed with your research and making some great choices like setting alarms for your doses, and being flexible and adjusting your taper where needed.  These are moves that set you up for success, in my experience.   

 

Glad to have you aboard, sounds like you're doing great!

[possum]

Sounds like you are in a really good (well, as good as can be expected) place with your taper. I have also read all the stuff about how rough things can be at those low doses, though I don’t quite get the graph, being one of those un-math types, but I’ll try to find something in actual words to help me understand. In the meantime, I’m trying not to “worry ahead” because that will just mess up my head. I can see what MIGHT happen, but I refuse to believe it WILL happen. I know that people who are having no problems tapering won’t be hanging around this site, but just once, I’d love to see someone whose 10% taper went off without a hitch! Wishful thinking, I know. I’m glad you stopped by my thread to say hello — I was planning to post an update later today so I’ll see you over there, on the other side of the world where it is winter!

[Fifree]

18 hours ago, j1290 said:

the burned bridges light my way

Lol. That’s hilarious. Glad you can laugh about it. I’ve never been good at leaving my mistakes behind me, but I’m getting better at it. Hope the current cut is going well.  It looks quite ambitious

[Fifree]

16 hours ago, possum said:

I refuse to believe it WILL happen.

I think positivity is a good thing too. Sure we need to be cautious and respectful of the lease these things have on our brain space, but why shouldn’t it go well?

 

thank you. In trying to make myself cautious I’m in danger of falling into a black pit of negativity. Why shouldn’t it go smoothly? Middle ground is not my strong point - as for lots of us with depression and anxiety. 

[Fifree]

2.19

 

Still hanging in there just fine. I know this is the easy part though.
 

I decided the anxiety in my body is probably due to nicotine and caffeine use, so I’m working on cutting both of those back. I have one big espresso with scalded milk when I wake up, but I’m now making it with half decaf, half regular. I’ll gradually increase the proportion of decaf in it. I don’t want caffeine withdrawals as well. The headaches are horrific in my experience. I’ve also switched out black tea for rooibos which is caffeine free. As for nicotine, I long ago switched to gum from cigarettes, but I’m hopelessly addicted to the gum - addicted in the true sense where I crave it and want more. So I’m making a big effort to cut that back too, alternating regular gum with my nicotine gum so the dose comes down. Have decided to also stay away from alcohol for the time being. I’ve never been a committed drinker, but I want to give my brain every chance to recover asap. 
 

I’m still sleeping well, although I do procrastinate going to sleep. I hate the feeling of tossing and turning so much that I’ll read until my eyes are crossing and the book falls outta my hands rather than risk trying to sleep before I’m ‘ready’. I’ve still been getting up at 7:30 to take meds on time though. 

 

I’ve been reading some of the more positive success stories on here now with a focus on my particular drug - Lexapro. It is pretty easy to get into doomscrolling on this site (no complaints - I just have to manage myself) but there is so much good advice and happy stories too.  Getofflex really stuck it out there in her story and saw it through to the end. So honest in her own reflections, and inspiring in her patience and acceptance. Thank you getofflex (who I am not supposed to tag so I won’t).

 

So I think I’d best stick with the success stories atm and leave the difficult ones for the mods and mentors. There’s no reason to be particularly negative or particularly positive at this stage. I don’t know how it’s going to go and as @littlebirdsaid:

On 1/30/2023 at 1:04 PM, littlebird said:

Buy the ticket, ride the ride

 

[j1290]

8 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I’ve still been getting up at 7:30 to take meds on time though. 

Love it!  I wake up to take my pills and go back to sleep.  It's a small inconvenience to be stable, but I just never used to do it.  

 

14 minutes ago, Fifree said:

It is pretty easy to get into doomscrolling on this site (no complaints - I just have to manage myself)

Lots of people in crisis here for sure.   

 

15 minutes ago, Fifree said:

So I think I’d best stick with the success stories atm and leave the difficult ones for the mods and mentors.

This is my decision for the most part.  I chime in if someone is on meds I have a history with but so many complicated situations here I don't have much to offer.  

 

19 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Buy the ticket, ride the ride

I didn't know @littlebird said this but it sounds like her and is quite funny.  Well said!

[possum]

I feel your pain about the coffee. I am a true coffee lover and had to cut back as well. My morning espresso is now half-caf, with decaf the rest of the day. Thankfully, there’s decent decaf to be had, and once the headaches went away, I did okay. Smoking…I quit that about 25 years ago — hardest thing I ever did. Til now!

 

Keeping the positive thoughts seems to help, as someone — was it you or @littlebirdwas saying yesterday, our nervous systems like positive thoughts and it’s all too easy to spiral down into that negative headspace. We've got to remember that right now, we have nooooo idea what will happen next, so we might as well not “worry ahead.” Glad you’re doing well!

[Fifree]

36 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I wake up to take my pills and go back to sleep

Yup I did this yesterday. Staying up today tho as it’s finally cooled down a bit (24 degrees atm) and I’m enjoying non-processed air

38 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I didn't know @littlebird said this but it sounds like her and is quite funny.  Well said!

Yup they’re a ray of sunshine and practicality rolled into one ☺️

 

37 minutes ago, possum said:

My morning espresso is now half-caf, with decaf the rest of the day.

Nice to meet a fellow espresso fiend. It’s tough to give up but I will - well at least the caffeinated part. 

 

39 minutes ago, possum said:

it’s all too easy to spiral down into that negative headspace

You and littlebird are so right. I think I’d better implement a daily gratitude practice before I hit any rocky patches. I’ll add it to my list of self care aspirations. I need to get this stuff in place before the rough stuff starts not after I’m in the thick of it

[Fifree]

Cut 2 Day 22 - 15 mg

 

Still holding on 15mg and levelling out. 1/10 dizzy and nauseous so that's pretty good I think. My mood is still fine and I'm doing chores with enthusiasm now rather than just dragging though it as I try to force myself into some sort of activity. I met a friend for a lovely walk and breakfast yesterday which was great. We didn't walk as far as usual, but still got in a good half hour, so it's definitely progress.

 

Can you please give me some advice @Gridley? So far I have just been chomping 1x20mg and 1x10 mg tab in half each morning for my 15 mg and obvs that's not particularly accurate. As I'm still at a relatively high dose I don't think that is too much of a problem but as I start my next taper, I start to get into odd amounts and want to get into good habits. I experimented with making a liquid (20 mg tab in 20 ml water) this morning as I prepare for my taper next week . There is a lot of residue in the bottom of the measuring cup and I don't know if that contains active ingredients or just the binder.  How can I be certain the active ingredient is evenly distributed through the solution/suspension? Will adding salt help? I read something about saline solution in the guidelines. I don't see my psych until mid-March. I'll ask him about getting the liquid then, but in the meantime would like to get started.

 

Thanks

 

Fi

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

There is a lot of residue in the bottom of the measuring cup and I don't know if that contains active ingredients or just the binder.  How can I be certain the active ingredient is evenly distributed through the solution/suspension? Will adding salt help? I read something about saline solution in the guidelines. I don't see my psych until mid-March. I'll ask him about getting the liquid then, but in the meantime would like to get started.

 

 

I'm not knowledgable about liquids.  You could make a general post in your Introduction topic and ask for help.  Brassmonkey (one of our moderators) is very good with liquids.

[Fifree]

Hi @brassmonkey  I’m new here and wondered if you could please give me a bit of advice on MYO liquid Escitalopram. I’m told you are the resident expert. 

6 hours ago, Fifree said:

So far I have just been chomping 1x20mg and 1x10 mg tab in half each morning for my 15 mg and obvs that's not particularly accurate. As I'm still at a relatively high dose I don't think that is too much of a problem but as I start my next taper, I start to get into odd amounts and want to get into good habits. I experimented with making a liquid (20 mg tab in 20 ml water) this morning as I prepare for my taper next week . There is a lot of residue in the bottom of the measuring cup and I don't know if that contains active ingredients or just the binder.  How can I be certain the active ingredient is evenly distributed through the solution/suspension? Will adding salt help? I read something about saline solution in the guidelines. I don't see my psych until mid-March. I'll ask him about getting the liquid then, but in the meantime would like to get started.

Thank you very much

 

Fi

[brassmonkey]

Hi Fifree-- This medication does not dissolve in plain water but does dissolve well in isotonic saline (salt water). Isotonic saline is quite easy to make and can be stored for about a month. Use about 1/4 tsp. of salt for 8oz of water. Then make your solution by using the same volume of water as the strength of you tablet. (20mL liquid for a 20mgai tablet) This will give a 1:1 solution for easy calculations. Once it is mixed this way the solution should only be kept for three days before discarding. When you mix it, the fillers will settle out and rest on the bottom of the jar. You have to let it set for several hours before using it to allow the active ingredients to move from the tablet to the liquid, so you won't have to worry about the sediment. At this dilution ratio all the active ingredients will move from the tablet to the liquid, so there should not be a problem with accuracy.

 

Good luck and let me know how it works.

 

 

[Fifree]

Thanks very much @brassmonkey  I have my Escitalopram brew soaking overnight and will give it a try in the morning. I’m mixing up my isotonic solution using my (clean) sinu-cleanse gear and sachets so I know it’s gonna be just right. 
 

Fingers crossed. This is week three of my cut so I’m feeling pretty good and stable. Had a little anxiety this afternoon but breathed my way through it. Trying to reframe it as “healing” and not get anxious about the anxiety. Very keen to stay out of any emotional spirals!. 

[j1290]

1 minute ago, Fifree said:

Trying to reframe it as “healing” and not get anxious about the anxiety.

 

I love your verbage.  I try to do the same.  I think it helped with anxiety when I was able to see symptoms as normal, which was half the battle. 

[Fifree]

22 hours ago, j1290 said:

see symptoms as normal

Yes. This. I’m really trying to notice the good ones too - and I know you’re very conscious of those positives too. Eg I have been doing battle with exponentials and such in excel (cos for some reason I just have to do the maths on these SERT occupancy things) and - dare I say it - I’m enjoying the challenge. Tomorrow I will come to terms with Michaelis-Menten kinetics. Maybe. (Full disclosure - I used to be an economist. Graphs speak to me like nothing else 😂)

[j1290]

4 minutes ago, Fifree said:

and I know you’re very conscious of those positives too.

I force myself.   Doom posting is seductive so I try and avoid.  

 

5 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I used to be an economist. Graphs speak to me like nothing else 😂

LOL I appreciate seeing the maths when someone else does the heavy lifting.   Looking forward to what you come up with.   

[Thorin]

Hi @Fifree,

 

sounds like your taper is working, despite being difficult. Well done on doing the work! I wonder if you wouldn’t mind sharing about your mindfulness practice you had in place? It’s something I’m curious about and it sounds like it was really beneficial for you.

[Fifree]

25 minutes ago, Thorin said:

sounds like your taper is working, despite being difficult.

Hi Thorin (maaaate - fellow Aussie here)

I consider myself very fortunate with my taper so far. I look at it as already being down 50% in terms of dose (obviously not in terms of the real estate the drug is taking up in my brain tho). But it’s been a pretty good start.  I found my limit with a bit of unpleasantness but have stabilised well again now so I feel like I got off the hook there. 
 

In terms of mindfulness, my then psych told me about it in 2009 and I went out and found myself a practitioner who did the full Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course which takes 8 weeks. (Google MBSR). It honestly blew my mind and within a couple of months I felt so good I took up running which helped even more. Running made me think it would be a good idea to be lighter so I decided to lose some weight. It just sent me off into a whole virtuous cycle which was great and my life improved dramatically. I looked better so I felt even better. I used to do my meditations on the bus on the way to work without fail and it was great. But sadly my practice fell off (I was trying to learn French and started listening to French on my commute instead). It wasn’t helped by the dr who told me I shouldn’t go off ADs - he gave me the line about being like a diabetic. I went into the viscous cycle instead and it all came down. 
 

if you can’t find an MBSR practitioner or there are other issues, I highly recommend this book called The Mindful Way Through Depression. https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-mindful-way-through-depression-j-mark-g-williams/book/9781593851286.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA0JKfBhBIEiwAPhZXD_pxR02pFFYXk3wt1-pvUSuOhIdA3K04fntjaqZTPe_09LtxKYyfbhoCiaYQAvD_BwE
 

It basically contains all the steps (and audio recordings) to do pretty much the same 8 week MBSR course. You need to have a lot of self-discipline to do it on your own though. I found doing it with a practitioner kept me accountable and that was invaluable. At first some of it seems a bit puzzling - why are you taking 10 minutes to eat a sultana? BUT it’s all training. It’s a lot like fitness. You have to just do the practice and then one day you just « get it » and it’s truly amazing. There are probably MBSR apps now too now that I think of it. They weren’t really a thing back in 2009. 
 

I hope everything is going well for you. I think I’ve even inspired myself to get back into my practice properly. 
 

All the best 😊

[Thorin]

8 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Hi Thorin (maaaate - fellow Aussie here)

I consider myself very fortunate with my taper so far. I look at it as already being down 50% in terms of dose (obviously not in terms of the real estate the drug is taking up in my brain tho). But it’s been a pretty good start.  I found my limit with a bit of unpleasantness but have stabilised well again now so I feel like I got off the hook there. 
 

In terms of mindfulness, my then psych told me about it in 2009 and I went out and found myself a practitioner who did the full Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course which takes 8 weeks. (Google MBSR). It honestly blew my mind and within a couple of months I felt so good I took up running which helped even more. Running made me think it would be a good idea to be lighter so I decided to lose some weight. It just sent me off into a whole virtuous cycle which was great and my life improved dramatically. I looked better so I felt even better. I used to do my meditations on the bus on the way to work without fail and it was great. But sadly my practice fell off (I was trying to learn French and started listening to French on my commute instead). It wasn’t helped by the dr who told me I shouldn’t go off ADs - he gave me the line about being like a diabetic. I went into the viscous cycle instead and it all came down. 
 

if you can’t find an MBSR practitioner or there are other issues, I highly recommend this book called The Mindful Way Through Depression. https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-mindful-way-through-depression-j-mark-g-williams/book/9781593851286.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA0JKfBhBIEiwAPhZXD_pxR02pFFYXk3wt1-pvUSuOhIdA3K04fntjaqZTPe_09LtxKYyfbhoCiaYQAvD_BwE
 

It basically contains all the steps (and audio recordings) to do pretty much the same 8 week MBSR course. You need to have a lot of self-discipline to do it on your own though. I found doing it with a practitioner kept me accountable and that was invaluable. At first some of it seems a bit puzzling - why are you taking 10 minutes to eat a sultana? BUT it’s all training. It’s a lot like fitness. You have to just do the practice and then one day you just « get it » and it’s truly amazing. There are probably MBSR apps now too now that I think of it. They weren’t really a thing back in 2009. 
 

I hope everything is going well for you. I think I’ve even inspired myself to get back into my practice properly. 
 

All the best 😊

Hey mate thanks for getting back to me so quickly. It’s always good to catch up with another Aussie. Which state are you in? I’m down in Vic.

That’s awesome that you’re already down 50% on your dose. You’re flying through it! Glad to hear it. I’ve been holding for about 5 months and am hoping to resume my taper in a month. Only 14mg of med 1 to go and 0.375mg of med 2 left. Not much but it feels like it’s going to take forever!

Ok, the fact that the MBSR blew your mind makes me want to try it. I hear you about needing to be strict if you’re doing it on your own. That’s my only concern 😂. Thanks for posting the link too. I’ll have a good look. I won’t see a practitioner at the moment I think as I see two different therapists (somatic and trauma), an acupuncturist now and have kids and a job 😂 I don’t think I’ll have the time or the money. But it’s definitely something I can spend time on learning.

keep in touch. It’s good to know there are other Aussies about on here (I’ve only chatted with one or two)

[Thorin]

Ha, I just bought the book. See how we go.

[Fifree]

6 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I just bought the book

That’s fantastic! I might go back to basics and do the whole book again. Maybe we can keep each other accountable? I hear you about the job and kids. That’s how I ended up doing my practice on the bus. It was the only time I had to myself!

 

Edit: btw I’m in Brisbane. Lived in Melbourne for about 6 years in the 90s. Wonderful city. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Fifree
Forgot to answer a question

[Thorin]

1 minute ago, Fifree said:

That’s fantastic! I might go back to basics and do the whole book again. Maybe we can keep each other accountable? I hear you about the job and kids. That’s how I ended up doing my practice on the bus. It was the only time I had to myself!

Happy to keep each other accountable 👍🏻 I know I do better when somethings riding on it or someone’s giving me a push. Fortunately I work from home most of the time and everybody is out during the day so I’ll be able to find some time for it. If you haven’t tried it I’ve found a breathwork practise (Wim Hof or similar for example) really helpful. Also cold therapy. I have a cold shower every day and a week and a half ago I did my first ice bath. Was incredible! Great group of people too.