Fifree introduction

[Momiki]

Hi Fiftree, it looks like you're starting your taper well equipped knowledge wise! I hope it will be smooth sailing for you. Your thread has made me chuckle at several points. Lex'n'Dex And escitalopram brew soaking overnight, that made me envision some fancy barista, hehe. Oh, and learning about the term "Michaelis-Menten kinetics" made me happy. I love learning stuff about mathy biology stuff (I have a background in biological psychology/neuroscience). I didn't know the correct way to refer to that particular curve's shape, I usually described it as "like a square root". People probably didn't know what I meant by that without drawing the curve, and they definitely won't know what I mean when I mention Michaelis-Menten kinetics, but still. The world seems like a nicer place now that I know the proper term for it, haha.

[Fifree]

11 hours ago, Momiki said:

Your thread has made me chuckle at several points.

I am very happy to brighten someone’s day. Thank you Momiki. 
 

I am really getting my nerd on with this tapering. I have zero medical training but I can kind of do maths if I really put my mind to it. I’m hoping to come up with something useful after I tinker about with it long enough. Even tho most peeps haven’t heard of Michaelis-Menten kinetics, a lot of people (esp if they’re into fitness) will have heard of Vo2 max and I’m pretty sure that would use the same model. 
 

nice to meet you

[littlebird]

11 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I am really getting my nerd on with this tapering. I have zero medical training but I can kind of do maths if I really put my mind to it. I’m hoping to come up with something useful after I tinker about with it long enough. Even tho most peeps haven’t heard of Michaelis-Menten kinetics, a lot of people (esp if they’re into fitness) will have heard of Vo2 max and I’m pretty sure that would use the same model. 

 

I'm getting my nerd on with comfy subjects like research and reading, maybe emotional processing to some extent, but the maths and graphs make me feel like I'm in a class that's too hard for me! When I found out my pills were made with filler, I flipped out with anxiously quadruple checking I'd calculated correctly. I might have a little Dyscalculia, never really looked into it too hard.

 

Maybe, with all our powers combined, we'll be able to tell meds to kick rocks. Please share what you're nerding out about! I love to learn.

[Thorin]

7 minutes ago, littlebird said:

 

I'm getting my nerd on with comfy subjects like research and reading, maybe emotional processing to some extent, but the maths and graphs make me feel like I'm in a class that's too hard for me! When I found out my pills were made with filler, I flipped out with anxiously quadruple checking I'd calculated correctly. I might have a little Dyscalculia, never really looked into it too hard.

 

Maybe, with all our powers combined, we'll be able to tell meds to kick rocks. Please share what you're nerding out about! I love to learn.

Yes please. I’m curious too

[Fifree]

Hi  @littlebirdand @Thorin I think I should probably quadruple check my work before I go blowing my own trumpet too hard cos I’m an amateur at this stuff. I used to have a team of people who were far more adept at modelling than I ever was. I kinda wanted to master Excel after I retired, just to prove to myself that I could, and this whole exponential tapering thing has given me something to channel it into. ADHD hyper focus gotta hold on me right now. 
 

Anyway, I’m working on plotting the curve for SSRI SERT occupancy, and then figuring out how you could get a perfect linear taper on it - an even better fit than exponential tapering. Los of people seem to really hit a wall down at the lower doses of SSRIs and I’m trying to work out an approach to it (mathematically speaking cos I have no medical training whatsoever). I have to check it a hundred more times, but if it’s potentially useful, I’ll definitely share. 
 

As long as the hyper focus holds out I’ll keep on it. But I may wake up tomorrow and decide it’s too hard. 🤪

[Thorin]

11 hours ago, Fifree said:

Hi  @littlebirdand @Thorin I think I should probably quadruple check my work before I go blowing my own trumpet too hard cos I’m an amateur at this stuff. I used to have a team of people who were far more adept at modelling than I ever was. I kinda wanted to master Excel after I retired, just to prove to myself that I could, and this whole exponential tapering thing has given me something to channel it into. ADHD hyper focus gotta hold on me right now. 

Ah the old adhd hyperfocus. I love it.

 

11 hours ago, Fifree said:

Anyway, I’m working on plotting the curve for SSRI SERT occupancy, and then figuring out how you could get a perfect linear taper on it - an even better fit than exponential tapering. Los of people seem to really hit a wall down at the lower doses of SSRIs and I’m trying to work out an approach to it (mathematically speaking cos I have no medical training whatsoever). I have to check it a hundred more times, but if it’s potentially useful, I’ll definitely share. 

Would it be possible to get a linear fit to a parabolic curve?. Have to say I don’t know as much as I’d like about this stuff. Curious to see what you come up with.

[littlebird]

1 minute ago, Thorin said:

11 hours ago, Fifree said:

ADHD hyper focus gotta hold on me right now. 

Ah the old adhd hyperfocus. I love it.

 

Right? Wish I could schedule it!

 

Hope y'all are having lovely weekends.

[Fifree]

Cut 3 Day 4  

 

I've been a little quiet on here because I know that I'm being one of those people who just won't follow instructions. I've read their stories. I've gasped and said:

 

Oh no! What are you doing? Brass/Alto/Gridley/Chessie/MMT was very very clear as to what you should do! Why did you go and do that? Now look where it's landed you!

 

But I'm having a really hard time balancing healthy optimism re my taper and falling into a black pit of despair when I read how wrong it can all go. So I'm trying to walk a middle path and on Monday I cut my dose to 12 mg instead of 13.5. It's a 20% cut and I know it's hubris on my part. I'm putting faith in the endless excel modelling I did last week which enables me to estimate the drop in SERT occupancy from any point in the taper. This cut, while 20% of my dose, is still less than 2% of SERT occupancy- in theory I'm dropping from 86.6% to 84.7%. I really love a good theory, and although I may live to regret this, I'm still early in the taper off a stupidly high dose, I've barely even scratched the surface.  I'm still well above the minimum "therapeutic" dose.

 

I won't know how it's really going for a few days  - day 9 was when the dizziness and nausea hit me when I cut from 20mg to 10. (FWIW my cut from 20 to 10 mg was not only a 50% dose reduction, but also a 5.6% reduction in SERT occupancy. I definitely noticed that.)

 

So I have learned some caution for sure and am putting in this additional step before I get to 10mg. 

Thanks for reading. I wish you all smooth sailing out of druggie hell.

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

Cut 3 Day 4  

 

I've been a little quiet on here because I know that I'm being one of those people who just won't follow instructions. I've read their stories. I've gasped and said:

 

Oh no! What are you doing? Brass/Alto/Gridley/Chessie/MMT was very very clear as to what you should do! Why did you go and do that? Now look where it's landed you!

 

But I'm having a really hard time balancing healthy optimism re my taper and falling into a black pit of despair when I read how wrong it can all go. So I'm trying to walk a middle path and on Monday I cut my dose to 12 mg instead of 13.5. It's a 20% cut and I know it's hubris on my part. I'm putting faith in the endless excel modelling I did last week which enables me to estimate the drop in SERT occupancy from any point in the taper. This cut, while 20% of my dose, is still less than 2% of SERT occupancy- in theory I'm dropping from 86.6% to 84.7%. I really love a good theory, and although I may live to regret this, I'm still early in the taper off a stupidly high dose, I've barely even scratched the surface.  I'm still well above the minimum "therapeutic" dose.

 

I won't know how it's really going for a few days  - day 9 was when the dizziness and nausea hit me when I cut from 20mg to 10. (FWIW my cut from 20 to 10 mg was not only a 50% dose reduction, but also a 5.6% reduction in SERT occupancy. I definitely noticed that.)

 

So I have learned some caution for sure and am putting in this additional step before I get to 10mg. 

Thanks for reading. I wish you all smooth sailing out of druggie hell.

Good luck! Curious to see how it goes….

[j1290]

Nothing quite like being the subject of our own personal science experiment.  At the end of the day, my body will let me know if I went too far or not.  I can make a well educated guess and accept that I might get it wrong.   

 

The only thing I'm sure of is that they won't ever release a cure to AD withdrawal, so I'll try my best.  

 

Best of luck!  Please keep us updated!

 

 

[Momiki]

There's not one right way in which tapering should be done. What's important is: slow, steady and listen to your body. I didn't make 10% cuts in the beginning. I went from 20 mg paroxetine to 15, 10 (switch to citalopram), 8, 6 and then 4 mg. It wasn't until I got below 4 mg that I noticed withdrawal symptoms. I did take long breaks in between, though, minimally 6 weeks. I would caution you to not change your dosage too quickly. If I read correctly you went from 20 mg in December to 10 mg on Jan 16th, went to 15 mg on Jan 27th (11 days later) and then to 12 mg on Feb 13th (17 days later). That's a lot of change in a short period of time. It takes time before the drug amount in your body's tissues go down, hence why it took 9 days before you got hit with dizziness and nausea. And that's why SA recommends the 10% per month taper. It gives the body time to stabilize after a reduction.

 

[Fifree]

Thanks @Momiki  You are right.  There was a bit of jumping around that I conveniently forgot. Thanks for pointing it out. I was kinda looking at the whole 28 day period from 16/1 to 12/2 as a successful cut to 15 mg cos I was fine for the second half.  But it wasn’t all plain sailing. 
 

My definite plan is to stay put on 12 mg for the next 3 and a half weeks. Once I get down to 10 mg I’m planning to stay there a couple of months, take my time switching to the liquid and then start the real business of tapering.

 

Better get comfortable with decimal places and the further I go, the more decimal places I’ll be friends with. 

 

Thanks for checking in. Point is taken. 

[Fifree]

Day 5 @12 mg

 

Just feel like doing a bit of journalling today. I'm 1/10 dizzy and 1/10 irritable.  

 

I had trouble falling asleep last night and had random weird itches so I took 1/4 of a doxylamine. That would explain feeling a bit dopey today. I'm putting the insomnia down to eating too much dark chocolate last night. Since I've almost eliminated caffeine during the rest of the day, my body's gonna be more sensitive to it. Think about it fifree! Don't eat dark chocolate in the evening!

 

Re irritability, I can put that down to also cutting back on nicotine. I've cut it down by about half probably and am on the road to eliminating it I hope.  My lil brain is dealing with a lot at the moment. I was googling nicotine this morning and discovered it affects levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine, and the bioavailability of dopamine.  Woohoo. No wonder I love it so much. But I gotta get off it too as if I have too much of it it makes me anxious. The fewer complications the better as I go through this journey. I want to get off nicotine and caffeine completely by the time I start my taper from 10 mg - tentatively scheduled for mid-May.

 

Today for gratitude I'm going to ramble a bit about the birds in my garden. I'm inspired by all the hummingbird chat on @littlebird's thread.

 

My most regular visitor is a little butcher bird who is very friendly and sometimes a little demanding - she once pecked me on the back of the head because I was ignoring her. I love her though. She's the only bird I deliberately feed - a little mince or cheese but not too much. These foods are like fast-food to wild birds who should actually be eating bugs. Here's a video of one singing 

 

My other regular visitors are blue faced honey eaters and rainbow lorikeets who enjoy the grevilleas in my front yard.

 

At certain times of the year we have flocks of sulphur-crested cockatoos tearing everything up - lawns, trees, flowers. They are loud and destructive and I absolutely love them. They have the worst bird call ever and every time I hear it, it makes me smile.

 

I occasionally get king parrots and pale faced rosellas turning up, but they tend to be a bit more shy and make themselves scarce if they notice you. 

 

Of course, we get magpies, crows, currawongs and kookaburras passing through all the time too.

 

My other favourite is the pheasant coucal who turns up from time to time and has an amazing eerie call that lets you know if it's going to rain.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_coucal

 

I'm pretty lucky huh?

 

[j1290]

These are incredibly beautiful birds!!   I just subbed to backyardbirds of australia now....really really neat to see.  In my neck of the woods hummingbirds are the most interesting thing around.  I always thought a kukaburra was a 4 legged creature like a squirrel or something, turns out they're a cute bird, who knew?!?  Sounds like you have a lot of amazing wildlife in your area!

[littlebird]

54 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Re irritability, I can put that down to also cutting back on nicotine. I've cut it down by about half probably and am on the road to eliminating it I hope.  My lil brain is dealing with a lot at the moment. I was googling nicotine this morning and discovered it affects levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine, and the bioavailability of dopamine.  Woohoo. No wonder I love it so much.

 

Right there with you!! I'd been wondering what it was doing, given that when I changed Wellbutrin dose I was craving nicotine more than ever. Trying to cut back is tough, but good in the long run!

 

I've never heard of a butcher bird! How cute. Sounds like you've got some cool birds there! Making me want to visit Australia even more than I already did.

 

28 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I always thought a kukaburra was a 4 legged creature like a squirrel or something, turns out they're a cute bird, who knew?!?

 

I had no idea they were so cute!! Adorable.

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

Think about it fifree! Don't eat dark chocolate in the evening!

It can be hard to eliminate these little treats that pick us up when we’re struggling. My sugar intake has increased since tapering….

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

was googling nicotine this morning and discovered it affects levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine, and the bioavailability of dopamine.

I quit years ago. I highly recommend finding a quit counsellor that you can guide you through this. It was a very stressful experience for me and the counsellor’s advice helped to the point that I was eventually successful and haven’t smoked for many years! Quitting and withdraw at the same time may be difficult. I would consider waiting until you’ve finished tapering before quitting completely. Probably not a popular opinion but I remember how stressful it was. Just my thoughts and obviously you should do what works for you!

 

wow you get some amazing birds! I still haven’t seen a pheasant coucal in the wild. Very keen to!

40 minutes ago, j1290 said:

always thought a kukaburra was a 4 legged creature like a squirrel or something, turns out they're a cute bird,

A cute bird that eats snakes whole 😂. Australia huh! They’re pretty cool birds.

 

We’ve got a few breeding pairs of Red-rumped Parrots where I live. Beautiful birds!

[j1290]

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

would consider waiting until you’ve finished tapering before quitting completely. Probabl

This is my personal approach.  One thing at a time.  I hope to incorporate some other healthier habits when I get further along in my taper, but for now, I have enough on my plate.  

 

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

cute bird that eats snakes whole 😂. Australia huh! They’re pretty cool birds

Lol never change, 'straya!  I'm not surprised a bit.  

[littlebird]

2 hours ago, Thorin said:

It can be hard to eliminate these little treats that pick us up when we’re struggling. My sugar intake has increased since tapering….

 

Right there with you! Just took some brownies out of the oven. 

 

44 minutes ago, j1290 said:

2 hours ago, Thorin said:

would consider waiting until you’ve finished tapering before quitting completely. Probabl

This is my personal approach.  One thing at a time.  I hope to incorporate some other healthier habits when I get further along in my taper, but for now, I have enough on my plate.  

 

Yeah, that's where I'm at right now! One thing at a time, but I am trying to cut back. @Fifree I'm here to chat if you're ever trying to get through a craving!

 

45 minutes ago, j1290 said:

2 hours ago, Thorin said:

cute bird that eats snakes whole 😂. Australia huh! They’re pretty cool birds

Lol never change, 'straya!  I'm not surprised a bit.  

 

They what?? Badass little cuties. We get a lot of hawks in my city, partner calls them murder birds. Sounds like Australia is full of murder birds! 

 

 

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

One thing at a time.  I hope to incorporate some other healthier habits when I get further along in my taper, but for now, I have enough on my plate.  

I agree 100%

 

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Lol never change, 'straya!  I'm not surprised a bit. 

Straya! Love it 😂 

44 minutes ago, littlebird said:

there with you! Just took some brownies out of the o

Lovely. Thinking of making some cannabis brownies this weekend. Been years since I’ve done that. Last time was on Colorado actually and accidentally dosed myself with too much and had to take a Xanax to sleep it off…..

 

46 minutes ago, littlebird said:

They what?? Badass little cuties. We get a lot of hawks in my city, partner calls them murder birds. Sounds like Australia is full of murder birds! 

Oh man Australia has murder everything. But you guys have plenty of snakes bears etc that can kill your too….. I think when you grow up with it you learn how to handle it and it doesn’t stress you too much…. Man I’d love to see a bear. 

[Fifree]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:58 PM, j1290 said:

kukaburra was a 4 legged creature like a squirrel or something,

That's hilarious. There was me thinking kookaburras were some famous iconic Australian bird. Joke's on me

 

On 2/17/2023 at 1:27 PM, littlebird said:

when I changed Wellbutrin dose I was craving nicotine more than ever.

Yes I think they do similar things in your brain. For a while drs were even prescribing it as some wonder drug to help people give up smoking. Except then it's called Zyban instead of Wellbutrin. https://www.verywellmind.com/what-should-i-know-about-zyban-as-a-quit-aid-2825342 

 

What a scam. I'm really glad I never took up the "easy way" out of smoking.

On 2/17/2023 at 1:40 PM, Thorin said:

It can be hard to eliminate these little treats that pick us up when we’re struggling. My sugar intake has increased since tapering….

I am INHALING carbs at the moment. It's all very well for a month or so, but this little journey is going to last years. I've gotta figure out some better coping strategies that scoffing down hot-cross buns dripping in butter.  Shout out to the big supermarkets putting these things in stock on Boxing Day instead of waiting for Easter.

 

22 hours ago, littlebird said:

 

23 hours ago, j1290 said:

On 2/17/2023 at 1:40 PM, Thorin said:

would consider waiting until you’ve finished tapering before quitting completely. Probabl

This is my personal approach.  One thing at a time.  I hope to incorporate some other healthier habits when I get further along in my taper, but for now, I have enough on my plate.  

 

Yeah, that's where I'm at right now! One thing at a time, but I am trying to cut back. @Fifree I'm here to chat if you're ever trying to get through a craving!

Yup - I hear you ALL re the smoking and appreciate the hard-earned wisdom. I gave up actual smoking years ago and am now addicted to the nicotine gum. I really LOVED smoking so I fully appreciate the trauma you mentioned
Thorin. But the gum is not such an emotional attachment. I've been wanting to get off it anyway cos it's stupid waste of money and I am constantly chomping away on gum. My strategy with it is similar to how I've been reducing my caffeine - slowly putting more decaf into my brew each day. I'm mixing regular gum with my nicotine gum and I'm not finding it too difficult so far.

 

I accept I will crave cigarettes for the rest of my life. Cigarettes and coffee.... mmmmmmm

[j1290]

 

33 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I am INHALING carbs at the moment. It's all very well for a month or so, but this little journey is going to last years.

I knew Bupropion had some properties of an upper, including appetite suppressant.  The pounds I've added in the last 6 months would speak to the veracity of it's appetite suppressant qualities 😄

 

35 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I really LOVED smoking

Me too.   Wish I'd never touched the things so I wouldn't know what I was missing 😉

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

That's hilarious. There was me thinking kookaburras were some famous iconic Australian bird. Joke's on me

 

Pretty iconic! I knew the song, "Kookaburra sits on the old gum tree, Merry merry king of the bush is he," but didn't know how cute the lil murder birds are. 

 

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

I've gotta figure out some better coping strategies that scoffing down hot-cross buns dripping in butter.

 

I... need to try some hot cross buns. Don't know where to find 'em, but they sound amazing. I've been baking so many brownies I ran out of our huge supply of cocoa powder. My partner has also been baking bread, and I tore into it like a little raccoon today. I've been craving carbs!

 

54 minutes ago, j1290 said:

1 hour ago, Fifree said:

I really LOVED smoking

Me too.   Wish I'd never touched the things so I wouldn't know what I was missing 😉

 

Real talk! If only it was good for us.

[Thorin]

6 hours ago, Fifree said:

Yes I think they do similar things in your brain. For a while drs were even prescribing it as some wonder drug to help people give up smoking. Except then it's called Zyban instead of Wellbutrin. https://www.verywellmind.com/what-should-i-know-about-zyban-as-a-quit-aid-2825342 

Oooooooooooooh I never realised Wellbutrin was Zyban……. Isn’t Zyban meant to really mess with your emotions/head?

 

4 hours ago, littlebird said:

I... need to try some hot cross buns. Don't know where to find 'em, but they sound amazing. I've been baking so many brownies I ran out of our huge supply of cocoa powder. My partner has also been baking bread, and I tore into it like a little raccoon today. I've been craving carbs!

Bought my daughter a packet of fancy hot cross buns this morning. She ate about 5 straight away 😂. They’re pretty damn good.

[littlebird]

20 hours ago, Thorin said:

On 2/17/2023 at 8:25 PM, Fifree said:

Yes I think they do similar things in your brain. For a while drs were even prescribing it as some wonder drug to help people give up smoking. Except then it's called Zyban instead of Wellbutrin. https://www.verywellmind.com/what-should-i-know-about-zyban-as-a-quit-aid-2825342 

Oooooooooooooh I never realised Wellbutrin was Zyban……. Isn’t Zyban meant to really mess with your emotions/head?

 

I didn't know they were the same either! I was thinking about how Wellbutrin was supposed to help with quitting smoking (while smoking), and thinking I'm not having those effects. You know what is, though? This site! I realized I skipped over at least two smoke breaks with my partner tonight because I wanted to catch up with everyone on here. 

 

20 hours ago, Thorin said:

Bought my daughter a packet of fancy hot cross buns this morning. She ate about 5 straight away 😂. They’re pretty damn good.

 

If I ever come across these, I'm getting them! Baked goods are heavenly. I've been watching baking shows and dreaming of pastry!

[Fifree]

 

Day 10 on 12 mg

 

I am thrilled to report that at Day 10, I feel completely fine. When I cut too fast from 20 mg to 10, Day 9 was when it all caught up with me - dizziness, nausea, hot flushes, fatigue. No doubt the lag is something to do with the half-life of escitalopram and how I metabolise it personally etc etc. Anyway, it's a long nervous wait for me to find out if I've gone too far and I approached Day 9 with increasing dread, which I managed to keep in check by keeping myself busy.

 

Yesterday I went to a Sheffield Shield cricket game. Americans have probably have never heard of it, but it's the national first class cricket competition. In first class cricket, each side theoretically has the chance to bat and bowl twice over four or five days. I say theoretically, because quite often they run out of time. Really. It's funny game, but once you get into it, it's quite compelling.

 

A four day game of cricket may sound like a big commitment, but my personal challenge was wondering how I'd go walking up and down steep stadium stairs if the dizziness hit suddenly. I did find myself holding onto railings carefully, but I was fine. Despite sitting out in the sun for 6 hours, I had no hot flushes. I was a little irritable at times, but I kept it well under control. I stayed awake, I did not burst into tears, I did not yell at anyone (except my own team now and then when they dropped catches or misfielded the ball). I met new people and socialised appropriately. 

 

I'm still a tiny bit woozy today, but it is nothing compared with last month's disaster. Im completely functional. I'm cautiously optimistic for this month's taper and will sit here for 18 more days.

 

Thanks again to all for sharing your stories, and reading mine and your wonderful support. I luv yuz all.

[littlebird]

15 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I did not yell at anyone (except my own team now and then when they dropped catches or misfielded the ball)

 

Sometimes that can be very cathartic!! I'm so glad your taper is going well, and you were able to handle such a big event! Sounds like you had fun, and handled it well! So glad to hear things are working.

 

17 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Thanks again to all for sharing your stories, and reading mine and your wonderful support. I luv yuz all.

 

Thanks right back at you! Appreciating the community big time.

[Fifree]

7 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Sometimes that can be very cathartic!!

You're absolutely right there @littlebird!  I've seen tricks like screaming into your pillow or screaming while you stand under a railway bridge while a train passes over. I might just start attending more sporting events just so I can yell and scream while being socially acceptable. Get rid of that excess adrenaline, cortisol or whatever one way or another.

 

[Fifree]

Some Gratitude

 

1. I'm grateful for this community here. You're poignant, funny, helpful, knowledgable, witty, brave, caring, pragmatic and so much more
2. I'm grateful for the fantastic city I live in - it's not too big and not too small. It's gonna be a bit of a construction site over the next 9 years because we have the Olympics in 2032 eg the stadium I was at yesterday is going to be torn down and rebuilt - just to go from 44000 seats to 50000. But it's a lovely city.
3. I'm weirdly happy to know that @Carmieand @Thorin are both here on this side of the Pacific with me
4. I'm grateful for @littlebird's advice to get a therapist who works for me - make a switch if I need to. Planning to do this at the next opportunity
5. Im super grateful this step of my taper seems to be going ok. Like @j1290I know the real work will begin when I get down to that minimum "therapeutic" dose. I'll be more cautious at that point.

All the best to all of you.

 

 

[littlebird]

22 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I might just start attending more sporting events just so I can yell and scream while being socially acceptable. Get rid of that excess adrenaline, cortisol or whatever one way or another.

 

Seems like a win-win! 

 

22 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I've seen tricks like screaming into your pillow or screaming while you stand under a railway bridge while a train passes over.

 

Sometimes I'll drive somewhere I otherwise could have biked to so I can sing really loudly (and I've rolled up the windows in traffic and had a yell too). 

 

6 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I'm grateful for @littlebird's advice to get a therapist who works for me - make a switch if I need to. Planning to do this at the next opportunity

 

You can interview them too! There have been times when I wanted to cut someone off first session and never go back, and I stuck it out to my own detriment. Now I know I have more choice in the matter, although it's hard for me sometimes to flex it. Hope you find someone who is a perfect fit! A good therapist really goes a long way. 

 

7 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I'm weirdly happy to know that @Carmieand @Thorin are both here on this side of the Pacific with me

 

I like visualizing the globe with all of us on it, y'all glowing there in Australia all the way across the world from me, with @j1290 and I holding down the California contingent. If there's ever a conference/meetup that would be a blast to meet everyone! Bet we'd have some good laughs.

 

Might be cute to see a visual of where all of us live, a live map with where we're all pinging in from. Also, I'm American, I can always use an extra geography lesson wherever I can get it. 

[Fifree]

16 minutes ago, littlebird said:

If there's ever a conference/meetup that would be a blast to meet everyone!

Hawaii for sure - west coast USA and east coast Au. I'd be there in a flash.

[j1290]

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

Yesterday I went to a Sheffield Shield cricket game. Americans have probably have never heard of it, but it's the national first class cricket competition.

Along with Kookaburra murder birds and gum trees, this exposes yet another gap in my public school education.  I have to Americanize it so I'm imagining this to be something like the baseball World Series  with multiple games.   That would be a very good get, ticket wise.  Nice!   Appreciate the explanation.   

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

A four day game of cricket may sound like a big commitment

Sounds like a brilliant way to engage in life and not let the WD get you down! But yeah 4 days, especially in a Tik-Tok world, is a lot of anything LOL 

 

4 hours ago, Fifree said:

I did find myself holding onto railings carefully, but I was fine.

Sounds like you acknowledged your fear, accepted the challenge and succeeded.  Some might call it teaching by example.  ❤️ it!

For the record I get super dizzy from the ADs as well and have a death grip on any bannister within reach.  Let people think what they may, but I haven't fallen yet!

 

4 hours ago, Fifree said:

Despite sitting out in the sun for 6 hours.... I was a little irritable at times, but I kept it well under control. I stayed awake, I did not burst into tears, I did not yell at anyone (except my own team now and then when they dropped catches or misfielded the ball). I met new people and socialised appropriately. 

 Props to you.  I'd be a little irritable after 6 hours in the sun at the best of times!  Comparing it to the 'murrican experience, attending a baseball game is similarly a test of endurance, and the sun is brutal if you aren't prepared.   Meeting new people and socializing during WD...I bet you are absolutely killer at it if you can do that under these circumstances!  Bravo!

 

4 hours ago, Fifree said:

I'm still a tiny bit woozy today, but it is nothing compared with last month's disaster. Im completely functional. I'm cautiously optimistic for this month's taper and will sit here for 18 more days.

Congrats, I'm super happy to hear things are moving along.   

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

Im super grateful this step of my taper seems to be going ok.

Sounds like you're banking those Ws!  I tried to wedge in a cricket reference here but when I looked at the scoring rules my brain exploded.  

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

I know the real work will begin when I get down to that minimum "therapeutic" dose. I'll be more cautious at that point.

Just for the record I misspoke if I ever minimized the grind that is tapering to the min. theraputic dose.  We're putting in work!  as we say on the West coast.  

2 hours ago, Fifree said:

Hawaii for sure

Now you're talking!  A luau would be bitchin'.   

 

3 hours ago, littlebird said:

Also, I'm American, I can always use an extra geography lesson wherever I can get it. 

I resemble that remark 😎🤣

 

3 hours ago, littlebird said:

(and I've rolled up the windows in traffic and had a yell too). 

😂😂 I may have done this once or twice in WD.  If people can run those loud high pitched mufflers then my occassional hollering session is a fair trade.  

 

3 hours ago, littlebird said:

There have been times when I wanted to cut someone off first session and never go back, and I stuck it out to my own detriment.

I'm so with you on that.  I've done the same.  I think the best thing I ever did theraputically was audition like 5 therapists before I started working with one a few years ago.  

[Carmie]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:25 AM, Fifree said:

Some Gratitude

 

1. I'm grateful for this community here. You're poignant, funny, helpful, knowledgable, witty, brave, caring, pragmatic and so much more
2. I'm grateful for the fantastic city I live in - it's not too big and not too small. It's gonna be a bit of a construction site over the next 9 years because we have the Olympics in 2032 eg the stadium I was at yesterday is going to be torn down and rebuilt - just to go from 44000 seats to 50000. But it's a lovely city.
3. I'm weirdly happy to know that @Carmieand @Thorin are both here on this side of the Pacific with me
4. I'm grateful for @littlebird's advice to get a therapist who works for me - make a switch if I need to. Planning to do this at the next opportunity
5. Im super grateful this step of my taper seems to be going ok. Like @j1290I know the real work will begin when I get down to that minimum "therapeutic" dose. I'll be more cautious at that point.

All the best to all of you.

 

 

Hey Fifree, 

 

So lovely to see your gratitude list, I’m glad you had a nice time at the cricket too🧡

[j1290]

@Fifree  How's the taper going?  Did you see all the days of the cricket game?  How are the birds doing?  

[Fifree]

Warning - How a quick update turns into long introspective post. 

 

My taper is going quite smoothly thanks @j1290.  I'm hesitant to post about it because it seems pretty unkind to say "hey everyone! I'm feeling great!" because I am. Today is day 15 from my cut to 12 mg. My biggest struggle has been the GoFaster Demon 😈on my shoulder telling me I should jump to 10mg today. I didn't do it, but it's a constant struggle when you're feeling well. Yesterday I went for a brisk 5k walk with a friend. As we were getting near the end of it, my brain gave a big weird dizzy lurch for just a second and reminded me that there is plenty of work going on in there. So it was a good reminder to me that I have found my tolerance level and I should not rush.

 

But it really is an ongoing battle. So I spend some more time reading cautionary tales and arguing with myself. 

 

Me😈: Hey you are not on a complicated drug cocktail - you will be fine to go faster.

Also me🤔: Yes but wouldn't it be better to have a long symptom free taper where you live a normal life and just let this go on in the background?

Me again😈: Yeah but I just want to get off this sh!t and be free!

😠: Do you WANT to join all the people in kindled H3ll?

😈: Of course not but I never had any problems getting ON to Lexapro - all these kindled people had adverse reactions as well and got switched back and forth.

🤬: How many times have you read how fast tapers end in destabilisation and disaster? All these poor people telling their stories and Alto setting up this whole documentation experiment is meant to warn people and help them and communicate with the idiot medical establishment!! 🐢🐇.

 

Me👿: Yeah yeah. Fine. Point taken. I'll go slow.

 

This goes on a lot. There are a lot more arguments all the of 'me's make but I think the point it clear. I need to get out more and stop pursuing the-world's-least-fun-hobby as a full time job. I was really thrown off-balance by the too-fast cut to 20 to 10mg and if I'm honest, the last month and a bit has been a bit of a haze as I've been hyper-fixated on ADs and WD. Once I stabilised, I started participating in life again, but have spent more hours than I can count sitting on the sofa with my iPad reading stories on SA. I haven't been moving forward with my life.

 

I'm weirdly content pottering around the house and catching up with family or friends a couple to times a week. But I always feel like I should be doing MORE! People ask me what I've been up to, and I can't bloody answer them. What did I do for the past week? Doomscrolled SA? Used Excel and rusty modelling skills to develop an incredibly complicated tapering schedule for Escitalopram for myself? Started writing it up into a paper to give to the admins? I have done a lot of this. It doesn't make for good conversation - except maybe here. Meanwhile my friends who are still working full-time are pursuing relationships and making interstate trips every couple of months. My retired and semi-retired friends make interstate trips every couple of weeks and 2-3 international trips a year! WTF am I doing?

 

There is a wise expression that comparison is the thief of joy (variously attributed, but probably a Roosevelt) and much as I believe it intellectually, I still compare myself to EVERYONE. I even do it on here. Oh look j1290 is working nightshift on some difficult job and now he is getting a new cool job across the country! littlebird works for a cool startup and they have a loving partner. That's soooo SanFrancisco and cool. I don't have that. I wonder if they know my nephew who is also a cool SanFran brainiac?  Of course they don't you idiot, SF is a big city. Thorin also works full time and has a loving partner. He's also a really good cook. Melbourne is way cooler than Brisbane.

 

And I make myself feel like sh!t. And it's all nonsense. I know these are very unhelpful thinking patterns and I really need to manage them. But look, I didn't wind up on 30mg of Lexapro a day because I have healthy thinking patterns LOL. I'm working on it. And I need to spend a lot of time just being kind to myself after a lifetime of feeling less-than and generally joining the party on saying how cr@p I am, while at the same time knowing in my heart that I was always doing the very best that I could.

 

I finally got diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive type) late last year and it has been life changing for me. My entire chaotic, stressful, uneven, stop-and-start, depressed, anxious life made complete sense. It's enabled me to forgive myself for a multitude of "character flaws" and mistakes I've made in the past. I feel so much better. But I'm still learning to manage it in a positive way rather than beating myself up all the time for not being "better". But since I retired a year or so ago (due to complete and utter burnout at work), I have to make a really concerted effort to structure my time. Otherwise I will just while away my time and do nothing for the rest of my life.

 

So today I am trying to get back into my routine. I'm going to set out some goals for the year and the plan to pursue them. I was in this process when I was knocked right off-course by the too-fast taper. So I'm gonna do that. I've almost sent myself into an emotional spiral while writing this post, so I have to go and meditate and do my planning and chores. 

 

But first, I'm gonna turn all those arguments the GoFaster Demon comes up with and state them as gratitude.

 

• I'm grateful that I did not have any adverse reactions to Lexapro when I started it so that I have a better chance of having a smooth taper now
• I'm grateful that my switch from Effexor to Lexapro went smoothly all those years ago (the two week CT in between was hell, but there was nothing but relief when the Lexapro kicked in)
• I'm grateful that I'm not on a very complicated drug cocktail - especially benzos or antipsychotics. They seem like their own special kind of H3ll
• I'm grateful that, in my experience Australian drs are very reluctant to prescribe benzos - that is really a good thing
• I'm grateful that I stabilised quite quickly after my too-fast cut from 20 to 10 and reinstatement to 15
• I'm grateful that ever since I started the Dex I sleep like a baby. Who knew Dexies were the solution to my insomnia? 
• I'm grateful I've never become regular friends with some of the other prescriptions that I've used occasionally - specifically Lyrica (pregabalin) and Endep (amitriptyline). I was originally prescribed Lyrica for neuropathic pain after a bout of shingles but I found that it really helped with anxiety so GP prescribed some more. I only used it occasionally though for emergencies. My psych gave me a low dose of Endep to help with sleep. I had previously been using Doxylamine but I'd read that it's associated with Alzheimers so wanted off. Psych also warned me about possible interactions between Endep and Lex and kept me on a very low dose and I did not use it regularly.  Think of the state I could be in now piling on Endep and Lyrica with Lexapro and topping off with Dexamphetamine.  Yikes.

Right, off to meditate and plan.

 

I wish everyone more windows than waves.

 

 

 

 

[Thorin]

22 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I'm hesitant to post about it because it seems pretty unkind to say "hey everyone! I'm feeling great!" because I am. Today is day 15 from my cut to 12 mg

I completely disagree although I get what you’re saying. The fact that you’re successfully able to resume your taper after reinstatement and a hold gives me hope for resuming my taper soon.

 

23 minutes ago, Fifree said:

My biggest struggle has been the GoFaster Demon 😈on my shoulder telling me I should jump to 10mg today. I didn't do it, but it's a constant struggle when you're feeling well.

I don’t want to tell anyone what to do but if it was me I’d do the first few drops as recommended then cautiously try a slightly larger drop to see how I go….

 

25 minutes ago, Fifree said:

So it was a good reminder to me that I have found my tolerance level

5k walk is a pretty tolerable threshold for now I reckon! I went for a kayak with my son yesterday (not a very big one and pretty leisurely but it was lovely to get out for a bit).

 

26 minutes ago, Fifree said:

WD. Once I stabilised, I started participating in life again, but have spent more hours than I can count sitting on the sofa with my iPad reading stories on SA. I haven't been moving forward with my life.

Can absolutely relate although I have slowly been rejoining the world. It’s been a bizarre experience getting back out there which I’ll post about later.

 

27 minutes ago, Fifree said:

What did I do for the past week? Doomscrolled SA?

Frequently yes 😂

 

28 minutes ago, Fifree said:

I finally got diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive type) late last year and it has been life changing for me. My entire chaotic, stressful, uneven, stop-and-start, depressed, anxious life made complete sense. It's enabled me to forgive myself for a multitude of "character flaws" and mistakes I've made in the past.

So I got this diagnosis a few years ago but for me I think it’s more trauma and med effects (I do believe there are some adhd symptoms though for sure). My partner got a diagnosis and like you it’s been life changing for her. So good to see. Funnily enough my daughter had a bunch of assessments and was diagnosed from those. Diagnosis alone can make a huge difference for so many people and for many people the meds can be a game changer. I don’t take any (although I did) but the difference for my partner when she takes the med and when she doesn’t is light and day. I get worried about the meds because of my own experience with medication but it’s not my body and it seems to help so no judgement from me!

 

32 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Thorin also works full time and has a loving partner. He's also a really good cook. Melbourne is way cooler than Brisbane.

I’ve been known to do exactly the same thing but there’ll be amazing things in your life that we don’t have. While I agree that Melbourne is way cooler than Brissy 😂 YOU LIVE IN QUEENSLAND WHICH IS AWESOME! I love it up there! Also my partner is amazing but she can be hard work (like anyone including me). It’s not all roses here.

 

2 hours ago, Fifree said:

almost sent myself into an emotional spiral while writing this post, so I have to go and meditate and do my planning and chores. 

I like that you recognise you need to this and then make time for it!

 

2 hours ago, Fifree said:

grateful that I'm not on a very complicated drug cocktail - especially benzos or antipsychotics. They seem like their own special kind of H3ll

Man the only two meds left for me to get off are these two types. It HAS been hell. I’ve never been psychotic in my life and I have to go through the hell of coming off one. Grrrrrrrrrr.

[j1290]

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

Me👿: Yeah yeah. Fine. Point taken. I'll go slow.

LOLLLLL that's literally the dialogue that goes on in my head.   I get a shiver just thinking about those CT and FT stories.  They deserve a lot more kindness than WD has given them.   

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

How a quick update turns into long introspective post. 

haha always!

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

Once I stabilised, I started participating in life again, but have spent more hours than I can count sitting on the sofa with my iPad reading stories on SA. I haven't been moving forward with my life.

I fully support you in engaging in life.  Dr. Shipko warned me before I started all this.   He told me don't be that guy that lies around in bed all day due to WD, get out there and do things.  I wasn't able to manage that with my meds, but I certainly intend to the instant I get there.  Hopefully soon.  

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

What did I do for the past week? Doomscrolled SA? Used Excel and rusty modelling skills to develop an incredibly complicated tapering schedule for Escitalopram for myself?

This made me laugh hard enough for the neighbors to hear!   I can relate.  

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

And I make myself feel like sh!t.

Of all things I'd never guess.  You clearly have such a brilliant mind I feel smarter just reading what you type.  You want my night shift in the spooky Warehouse of Doom?  You can have it 😉  Thief of Joy is a great description.  What do they say, don't compare other people's outsides with your insides?  So true.  I don't know about anybody else, but I defo curate what I post.  I read your intro and wish I were as smart as you LOL and remember the really brilliant people I studied with, which is fun.  

 

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

But look, I didn't wind up on 30mg of Lexapro a day because I have healthy thinking patterns LOL.

Right.  So much this, applied to myself of course.  I didn't wind up here because I'm Tony Robbins and giving seminars on traits of highly effective people.   That cracked me up.  I follow a youtuber that worked for him and Tony fired him personally in the most empowering, positive way.  It's a great story.  But I digress.  

47 minutes ago, Thorin said:

3 hours ago, Fifree said:

I'm hesitant to post about it because it seems pretty unkind to say "hey everyone! I'm feeling great!" because I am. Today is day 15 from my cut to 12 mg

I completely disagree although I get what you’re saying. The fact that you’re successfully able to resume your taper after reinstatement and a hold gives me hope for resuming my taper soon.

 

I have to run off to the salt mine so I'll close with this but I 100% agree with Thorin.  If you're so inclined, no pressure, I love to see some... @Thorin what's the term for the opposite of doom posting?   fun posting?   Someone help me out here.  Whatever it's called, good news is in short supply, I love to hear it and I think it's absolutely fantastic to see someone who has struggled with meds get to a place of hope.   I think we're all hoping to get there one day.