AmitV: Escitalopram Withdrawal - Anxiety, Chronic Dizziness & High Heart Rates

[AmitV]

1 minute ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitV my symptoms in waves have changed and new ones have popped up. I now get phantom smells which I didn’t at the beginning. As far as temperature goes, it takes my brain longer to realize how hot something is like when I touch it. Also I am either sweating or freezing, mostly freezing where before the cold never bothered me. These drugs literally affect every system in our bodies. Best thing is acceptance because that leads to healing. 

@LostInCanada Darn it, I get those phantom smells too. And it takes a long time to recognize temperature. This is crazy. 

[Chompoo]

4 hours ago, AmitV said:

I’m just a bit bummed, in many ways I’m doing better. But in some ways I’ve declined (mental cognition, focus, memory, fatigue, mental and emotional amnesia). Does this make sense to anyone, where some things improve and others decline at the same time in a wave? Vision wise better, vertigo wise better, mentally screwed!

i guess they say sometimes new symptoms hit 3 months out. 

Yes, me. I'm in a wave now. Some of my symptoms have improved over time but some have declined because of the wave.

I'm more than 4 months out and still getting new symptoms. It does seem like the road to recovery will be a long one for me, despite taking only ONE pill.

[Altostrata]

On 6/7/2023 at 3:33 AM, AmitV said:

 

@Altostrata Just as an FYI for anyone who complains of dizziness or clogged ears. Despite the fact that dizziness is a common symptom. Most people will describe oscillopsia and inner ear dysfunction as dizziness. Unless they get the spinning vertigo. Especially if they get disequilibrium, it’s likely an inner ear thing. Antidepressants can be ototoxic to some individuals. Attached reference from John hopkins. The following  were the words of the neuro at the hospital, she said dizzy is a 4 letter word. Her words, “People don’t get it, one dizziness could be lack of B12 and to another person dizzy could be a disaster!”

 

 

@AmitV We are well aware that "dizziness" is a general term, and the causes of dizziness are not all the same. This is why psychiatry is wrong to say you can diagnose a problem from symptoms alone.

 

When dizziness comes on suddenly after a drug adverse effect or drug discontinuation, it is reasonable to assume it is due to the drug. In very rare cases, it may be a coincidental emergence or unmasking of a real physiological disorder, which might be diagnosed from imaging showing actual physical irregularity or other tests that every specialty other than psychiatry might use.

 

For the vast majority of people who have recently come off their drugs, dizziness is a withdrawal symptom that goes away in time. Hundreds of people here have had neurological and specialty testing that shows nothing physically wrong.

 

You may notice we ask a lot of questions about symptoms that doctors will not ask. This is because, unlike doctors, we want to identify the unusual cases that look like withdrawal but are not withdrawal. We are not infallible in this, but we try.

 

Yours may be the rare case of coincidental emergence of a physiological condition with a drug event, or as Dr. Shipko (who has a neurology background) says, it could be the drug triggered a physiological condition that had been controlled in a fragile balance prior to the drug.

 

When people find such causes of their own conditions, they often assume it's the same for everyone else. In your case, you had a fairly immediate adverse reaction to escitalopram. As I explained earlier, your condition is not strictly a withdrawal syndrome, but the result of this adverse effect, one component of which might have been oxotoxicity, which triggered a real otolaryngological condition. We don't know, we're only peer advisors, and our specialty is tapering and withdrawal, not the universe of adverse drug effects.

 

Other people might have the same symptoms from withdrawal, but not the otolaryngological condition, and you cannot generalize from your own case to everyone else.

 

On 6/9/2023 at 11:49 PM, AmitV said:

I’m just a bit bummed, in many ways I’m doing better. But in some ways I’ve declined (mental cognition, focus, memory, fatigue, mental and emotional amnesia). Does this make sense to anyone, where some things improve and others decline at the same time in a wave? Vision wise better, vertigo wise better, mentally screwed!

i guess they say sometimes new symptoms hit 3 months out. 

 

On 6/10/2023 at 1:48 AM, AmitV said:

Anyone here experiencing “sensory disturbances” which is really peripheral neuropathy. 
 

things I’m experiencing are loss of feeling off temperatures, I have to check the weather app to see if I need a jacket or tshirt. Loss of sense of smell.

 

As explained earlier, the aftereffects of an immediate adverse psychotropic reaction look like withdrawal syndrome but are not withdrawal syndrome, because many of those symptoms are autonomic. The autonomic nervous system controls some hearing functions.

 

Autonomic dysfunction is called dysautonomia. Unless they represent deeper physical illness, dysautonomias arising from adverse psychotropic effects, including withdrawal, generally follow the The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Temperature dysregulation is a common dysautonomic symptom in withdrawal. See this topic for discussions of many of the symptoms you may be experiencing (but not about otolaryngological conditions because we don't do otolaryngology).

 

 

[AmitV]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:26 PM, LostInCanada said:

@AmitV it is not ever your fault for trusting doctors that have excepted this position to be responsible and informed for us. When we take our car to the mechanic we don't have to educate ourselves first and know all the ins and outs of an engine. We trust the mechanic to do their job honestly and thoroughly.

 

@Altostrata thank you for your explanation. It makes sense. I’ve also had a similar reaction to taking Benadryl for 5 days a few years ago and also from nortryptaline taking it for 3-4 days a few years ago. I may be predisposed to adverse reaction to these particular kinds of drugs that are mild SSRI’s, TCA’s and SSRI’s. 

 

I will have to be extremely careful in the future regarding these antidepressant style medications or medications that treat peripheral neuropathy.

 

my only hope and prayers is to recover from my current state.
 

 

[AmitV]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:29 AM, LostInCanada said:

@AmitV I did have some days 24/7 and like you just laid in bed not moving. Couldn't do anything. Your withdrawal is normal and you just need time. It will change with time and you will heal. We all experience pretty similar things, just wherever the body has a weakness for each individual seems to be the worst symptoms. Mine is definitely my gut.

i wish I could say the same. I’ve had this 24/7 everyday without a break. Not even a second or a millisecond. It’s the most testing time of my life. Mental health issues, suicidal thoughts, chronic fatigue , social isolation, inadequate support (because everyone thinks it’s in my head) and despite all of that I have to do rehab. Asked my doctor to apply for MAID based on mental health grounds. I know I’m not going to do anything stupid myself, I wouldn’t want to pass the trauma of my selfishness to my family. I’ve been through the wringer for 6 months. I’ll give it another a few months just with my own will, I know the will of others around me subsiding. 
 

Took one dose of Ativan 0.5mg last night for a second mri. Made all my balance symptoms worse for atleast 16 hours. If only I could find 10 mins of relief with just something It would be heavenly! Nothing works, I’ve tried gravol and meclizin once each. 
 

The visual lag doesn’t help with rehab either, rehab relies on good vision for training the brain. Training the brain relies on neuroplasticity. The brain is a mushed pumpkin right now with withdrawls.

[Altostrata]

Very sorry, we are unable to help with what might be an organic ear condition.

[AmitV]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Very sorry, we are unable to help with what might be an organic ear condition.

It’s really not an organic condition.

 

the neurovestibular clinic has explained it to me this particular dysfunction can only be caused by blast trauma, head injury or pharmacologically induced. I did not experience blast trauma or head injury. 
 

it’s a rare disorder that’s not caused by a virus or infection.

[LostInCanada]

@AmitV I have to wonder if doing rehab before the WD heals is like walking on a broken leg before you are ready for the walking cast. Maybe it aggravates everything instead of allowing healing? Just a thought. Praying you get some relief.

[AmitV]

1 minute ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitV I have to wonder if doing rehab before the WD heals is like walking on a broken leg before you are ready for the walking cast. Maybe it aggravates everything instead of allowing healing? Just a thought. Praying you get some relief.

Fair point. I can only try though, it’s really hard to say if it’s withdrawals or adverse reaction since it began while I was taking the SSRI. 
 

I’m hoping for some of that magical window relief everyone speaks off. Even an hour of it would change my life and give me hope. 

[Altostrata]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:38 PM, AmitV said:

the neurovestibular clinic has explained it to me this particular dysfunction can only be caused by blast trauma, head injury or pharmacologically induced. I did not experience blast trauma or head injury. 

 

Please ask the clinic about the prognosis.

[AmitV]

Is it Normal to experience one better day, then one bad, then one worse and then the cycle repeats. 
 

Some of symptoms, especially vestibular ones are following a straight recovery trajectory (albeit somewhat stalled), but other symptoms such as sudden blurred vision, lightheadedness, chest discomfort and sudden inability to stand comes and goes mostly in 2-3 day cycles. Catches me off guard. 

[Altostrata]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:33 AM, Altostrata said:

Autonomic dysfunction is called dysautonomia. Unless they represent deeper physical illness, dysautonomias arising from adverse psychotropic effects, including withdrawal, generally follow the The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

[AmitV]

Got my first brain zap last night. 5 months into withdrawals.

[LostInCanada]

@AmitVsorry to hear that. Hard to believe being hit with that so far into withdrawal. Did you hear about the BBC program? Panorama did a documentary called The Antidepressant Story. We can’t watch it in Canada unless you buy a British VPN but you can get the transcript.

https://verenigingafbouwmedicatie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Y670a_ADs_2_million_taking_them_for_5_yrs_or_more_BBC_19-06-2023.pdf

 

[AmitV]

22 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitVsorry to hear that. Hard to believe being hit with that so far into withdrawal. Did you hear about the BBC program? Panorama did a documentary called The Antidepressant Story. We can’t watch it in Canada unless you buy a British VPN but you can get the transcript.

https://verenigingafbouwmedicatie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Y670a_ADs_2_million_taking_them_for_5_yrs_or_more_BBC_19-06-2023.pdf

 

@LostInCanadai couldn’t believe it myself, but it was most certainly a brain zap. Yep, a bit too late now on the documentaries and articles. I guess the damage is done. I’d love to blame the drug companies and clinicians for not recognizing these things, but that doesn’t get me anywhere. 
 

I’ve spoken with 2 psychs who agree I’m in withdrawal syndrome with ADR. And 2 other psychs and plethora of doctors who basically say its impossible. So, yeah we’re all in the same boat. The boat that was set afloat for large profits, hiding callous lies in its holdings by big pharma. Costed countless medical conditions and lives. And I get it why doctors and regulators just accept their word. They probably are conspirators to it themselves. There is no other drug that can be used to treat depression, so the medical system and psychiatry bought it along with its lies in order to provide the only treatment available.

 

CBD, ketamine, etc etc. came a lot later into the game. None of these are approved by the medical system. CBD is not even allowed in hospital property. None of them can be reimbursed by insurance, so yeah you go to a doc and that’s all they have to offer. Educating the patient about risks and benefits, they haven’t got the time.

 

Think about it, vitamin d has antidepressant properties. Except our medical system in Canada doesn’t even allow regular testing of blood levels. It would be “too easy” to treat people with OTC vitamin D. 

[LostInCanada]

@AmitVI just paid $68 to get my D checked lol. Then I found out they don't do folic acid blood tests here...only in Vancouver...what a joke. And most doctors don't even check ferritin levels here although low levels cause depression. 

Definitely $$$ for doctors in prescriptions.

I thought it quite ironic that SSRIs showed up just when they couldn't ignore the damage done by benzos. 

Well we can either fight or heal. I choose heal.👍

[AmitV]

4 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitVI just paid $68 to get my D checked lol. Then I found out they don't do folic acid blood tests here...only in Vancouver...what a joke. And most doctors don't even check ferritin levels here although low levels cause depression. 

Definitely $$$ for doctors in prescriptions.

I thought it quite ironic that SSRIs showed up just when they couldn't ignore the damage done by benzos. 

Well we can either fight or heal. I choose heal.👍

I see your point. This inner ear thing with visual lag has made me go crazy. I could’ve fought everything else.

[AmitV]

22 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitVI just paid $68 to get my D checked lol. Then I found out they don't do folic acid blood tests here...only in Vancouver...what a joke. And most doctors don't even check ferritin levels here although low levels cause depression. 

Definitely $$$ for doctors in prescriptions.

I thought it quite ironic that SSRIs showed up just when they couldn't ignore the damage done by benzos. 

Well we can either fight or heal. I choose heal.👍

You’re right about so many things. I just wish I had done more research before I began the SSRI journey. 
 

interesting mention about benzos. My mother in law took them for 7 years after menopause. She started getting headaches after 6 years. She went off them with a relatively short 3 week taper and went about her life like nothing happened. This was 15 years ago. She’s still alive, healthy and kicking in her 70’s. I personally took them for 4 weeks and went off with 2 days of withdrawals and walked it off. 
 

I believe the real difference is neuro plasticity. SSRI is a neuroplastic drug, it’s therapy effects are additive. Benzos aren’t neuroplastic, there effects wane at the end of their half life. Addiction and tolerance is definitely a huge problem with them.
 

SSRI’s totally different ball game for me. 6 weeks landed me in never ending misery. So I seriously question what’s actually safer.  I think the only safe medicine out there for mental health issues out there is behavioural therapy, magnesium and chamomile and to a large extent beer or wine if you’re not on meds. lol

[LostInCanada]

1 hour ago, AmitV said:

to a large extent beer or wine if you’re not on meds. lol

Lolol….lots more help and understanding if you ended up with an addiction to alcohol. I know an 87 yr old woman whose doctor wouldn’t prescribe her anymore Ativan after years. She just cut the pills in half a couple times and weaned herself off them as well with no issues. 

[AmitV]

3 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

Lolol….lots more help and understanding if you ended up with an addiction to alcohol. I know an 87 yr old woman whose doctor wouldn’t prescribe her anymore Ativan after years. She just cut the pills in half a couple times and weaned herself off them as well with no issues. 

haha! That’s incredible. 
 

This might be a worthy addiction to live long and healthy. I’m not endorsing it, but I thought it was an incredible story and worth sharing it. Gave me a big smile. Gosh was I a happy person (drug free) until my first panic attack. Which now we know wasn’t a panic attack, it was a muscle spasm induced throat constriction pressing on my vagus nerve. All I needed was a couple of trigger point injections and would’ve been back in business and enjoying patio beers. I’m not an alcoholic, but as you know summers and patio weather in Canada, especially in Alberta is pretty short.

 

 

[LostInCanada]

@AmitVi love it… my hubby has been bugging me to buy Dr Pepper lately and I’ve been saying no….too much sugar. He told me to thank you for this.😂😂😂

[AmitV]

Just now, LostInCanada said:

@AmitVi love it… my hubby has been bugging me to buy Dr Pepper lately and I’ve been saying no….too much sugar. He told me to thank you for this.😂😂😂

👍👍👍

[Lenaf]

On 6/1/2023 at 4:29 AM, AmitV said:

That’s another thing I get worried about, I don’t quite see those windows. My vision issues start unresolved, side to side vertigo has improved but I have some kind of weird vision issues where everything in my field of vision seems to be shimmering and gently floating around even when I’m sitting still. I excessively blink my eyes to the point my eyes hurt bad. My photophobia is absolutely excessive. And of course by balance is getting better but still bad. The excessive eye blinking basically makes me functionally blind. 
 

I’ve heard that sometimes vision problems can be permanent. It really scares me. 

I thought that I'd let you know that I, too, had excessive rapid unyielding eye blinking. It started when I was taking Prozac and Lamictal together a few years ago, and then I stopped Prozac, cross-tapered to Cipramil, then Cipralex (Lexapro) and then I stopped the Lamictin also. In that time it got better but never really went away completely. It came back full force on Cipralex at some stage while I was tapering, and then all of a sudden stopped once I got down to a lower dosage, it was somewhere below 5mg. I have been able to link it to some additive, which one I don't know. Sometimes high histamine foods also cause eye blinking for me. It would seem that we get different symptoms depending on the dosage where you're at. At some stage, I experienced phantosmia and smelled cigarette smoke for a few weeks at a time. It seems like, as your nervous system heals from these drugs, different areas of the nervous system is "targeted" at different dosages. Since you've gone off Cipralex very quickly, your body is struggling to heal so many things at once. 

The withdrawal symptoms can get overwhelming. It may be necessary for you to reinstate Escitalopram. I have been on Escitalopram (Cipralex/Lexapro) for a total of 16 years. Started tapering 2016 and still have at least 2 years to get to zero. These drugs are no joke. 

[AmitV]

1 hour ago, Lenaf said:

I thought that I'd let you know that I, too, had excessive rapid unyielding eye blinking. It started when I was taking Prozac and Lamictal together a few years ago, and then I stopped Prozac, cross-tapered to Cipramil, then Cipralex (Lexapro) and then I stopped the Lamictin also. In that time it got better but never really went away completely. It came back full force on Cipralex at some stage while I was tapering, and then all of a sudden stopped once I got down to a lower dosage, it was somewhere below 5mg. I have been able to link it to some additive, which one I don't know. Sometimes high histamine foods also cause eye blinking for me. It would seem that we get different symptoms depending on the dosage where you're at. At some stage, I experienced phantosmia and smelled cigarette smoke for a few weeks at a time. It seems like, as your nervous system heals from these drugs, different areas of the nervous system is "targeted" at different dosages. Since you've gone off Cipralex very quickly, your body is struggling to heal so many things at once. 

The withdrawal symptoms can get overwhelming. It may be necessary for you to reinstate Escitalopram. I have been on Escitalopram (Cipralex/Lexapro) for a total of 16 years. Started tapering 2016 and still have at least 2 years to get to zero. These drugs are no joke. 

As much as I hear about great experiences with reinstatement. I had extremely unpleasant adverse reactions to it for the 6 weeks I took it. At the time they were simply ignored by the doctors as side effects, now we know they were adverse reactions, so I have no choice but to stay off it. It’s been almost 5 months off it. Yep, the struggle is real but some things have gotten better, I’m just not able to risk it, if there’s any chance these will resolve in the next a few months. 

[Lenaf]

26 minutes ago, AmitV said:

As much as I hear about great experiences with reinstatement. I had extremely unpleasant adverse reactions to it for the 6 weeks I took it. At the time they were simply ignored by the doctors as side effects, now we know they were adverse reactions, so I have no choice but to stay off it. It’s been almost 5 months off it. Yep, the struggle is real but some things have gotten better, I’m just not able to risk it, if there’s any chance these will resolve in the next a few months. 

I understand that completely. It's the not knowing when the symptoms will end, that is really frustrating and I am so sorry that you are going through this. Just know that you are not alone. What helps me is to think that it is not me, it is the drug. I call it "chemical emotions". I wish you all the best. 

[AmitV]

3 minutes ago, Lenaf said:

I understand that completely. It's the not knowing when the symptoms will end, that is really frustrating and I am so sorry that you are going through this. Just know that you are not alone. What helps me is to think that it is not me, it is the drug. I call it "chemical emotions". I wish you all the best. 

yep, you’re absolutely right about the “chemical emotions”

[LostInCanada]

@AmitVhow are you doing? Are you getting more understanding and support at home? Hope you can enjoy the mountains that surround you, even if it’s just the view.

[AmitV]

10 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitVhow are you doing? Are you getting more understanding and support at home? Hope you can enjoy the mountains that surround you, even if it’s just the view.

Support is a bit on and off, it’s just a matter of time before everyone gives up. It’s hard for anyone to believe that this could’ve lasted this long, with the exposure I had of 6 weeks. I have tinnitus in both my ears and needless to say I’m struggling. Even a couple of walks a day is hard, by 7pm if I don’t get into bed I begin to shake and get unstable pretty bad. I still cry a few times a day. But I don’t know what else I can really do. I still get the blurred vision a couple of times a day. 
 

The mountains are nice, they were nicer before. Not as beautiful as they were with the visual snow and afterimages that I get. But regardless they’re still nice. A little more peace than being in a bedroom with a window looking to the neighbours house. 
 

ofcourse I never actually got a treatment for my anxiety, so now I have to contend with that as well as this. I’m doing psychotherapy but what good is contending with anxiety when I can’t even socialize and do normal things like drive. I could drive from Canmore to Seattle in a day, and now I can’t even make it to Canmore downtown (3 min drive). 
 

Maybe it’s just PPPD. I don’t know, but if it is, that’s another major burden I’ll have to contend with which some people suffer with for many years. I’m trying to stay hopeful. 

[LostInCanada]

@AmitVit is so important to concentrate on what you can do. Try not to go down the rabbit hole thinking about what you used to do, etc. I still can't watch tv like before but I can watch one or two HGTV programs once in awhile. So that's a win. I barely could read before and now I can read for about an hour. So compared to the beginning of withdrawal I am doing great. Try to keep it in perspective. I think your wife could benefit from the BBC Panorama program. There is a link that is still up and working:

https://rumble.com/v2wlt7g-the-antidepressant-story-bbc-panorama-documentary.html

 

[AmitV]

5 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

@AmitVit is so important to concentrate on what you can do. Try not to go down the rabbit hole thinking about what you used to do, etc. I still can't watch tv like before but I can watch one or two HGTV programs once in awhile. So that's a win. I barely could read before and now I can read for about an hour. So compared to the beginning of withdrawal I am doing great. Try to keep it in perspective. I think your wife could benefit from the BBC Panorama program. There is a link that is still up and working:

https://rumble.com/v2wlt7g-the-antidepressant-story-bbc-panorama-documentary.html

 

You’re right about all of that. I can only try and reassure myself with small gains.

 

I’ll share that documentary with my wife.

[modelarz71]

It's good that the digestion is fine, my after esci went down: and I liked to eat earlier
 

[LostInCanada]

What did your wife think of the documentary? How are you doing? Progress?

[AmitV]

19 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

What did your wife think of the documentary? How are you doing? Progress?

we didn’t watch the documentary yet. I’ll see if I can download it. I’m okay, withdrawals are done (feels like it), just living with the adverse reactions. 

[margaretLO]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:21 PM, j1290 said:

I've learned a lot from reading this.  I had the oscillopsia “visual lag” and just chalked it up to visual disturbances in general without knowing what it actually was.  Just like that link described, I'd get it while driving a car.   When I had it, I limited my driving as well.  FWIW it got much better for me.  Now and then I'll get some weird vision stuff that resolves in a day or so.  This was definitely one of the more unsettling side effects.  I hope it passes for you both, soon!

Hello how long did you have it? Did ur vision didn't connect when shake ur head? Thanks

[j1290]

6 minutes ago, margaretLO said:

Hello how long did you have it? Did ur vision didn't connect when shake ur head? Thanks

For me it would go away in a day or so, luckily.   Yes if I moved my head fast I would get "visual lag" or stuttering.  I also got some other visual issues but they've seemed to have improved.   I still have other symptoms though. 

[AmitV]

1 hour ago, margaretLO said:

Hello how long did you have it? Did ur vision didn't connect when shake ur head? Thanks

Yes I had the saccadic corrections, skipping vision. Vestibular rehab helped, it’s very minimal now and keeps getting better with rehab. 
 

you have to see a neurovestibular clinic that has cvemp and ovemp testing. To see how much damage in each of the ears. They will provide you with rehab.