AmitV: Escitalopram Withdrawal - Anxiety, Chronic Dizziness & High Heart Rates

[AmitV]

On 3/8/2024 at 7:19 PM, intothewoods said:

@AmitV, yesterday I began trialing P5P for acute, unrelenting akathisia lasting over a decade. After a month, I'll update my own thread with my full results, including starting niacinamide next week. But, to give hope and anecdotal credence to what you've been discussing - - I am better. I felt calmer within hours of taking 50 mg. I slept with less violent dreams last night, and the terror is ramped down.

I peaked at 250 mg this afternoon with nausea (my GI tract is absurdly sensitive) and am holding till tomorrow. I'm doing 50 mg capsules. I've read everything you posted and the additional online from recognized clinical sources. I don't expect a miracle but I've already seen it helps me a lot. 

There's the issue of the long half-life (15-33 days... It's all over the place as you know) and possible peripheral neuropathy, which is nothing compared to the ghastly way I live. 

Again, I will update on my thread soon but wanted the community to know my initial reaction. It's so quickly metabolized in this state (vs regular B6) that you do know if it's working. I can't take B12, magnesium and many other supplements without imminent distress. So this is a good start. 

More later.... 

 

 

I’m happy to hear of your progress! The effects of P5P are additive over time, unlike taking a psychiatric drug to get the same effect day after day. So patience and time at lower dosages, maybe all you may need to cross this path.

 

I always say there is a subjective component to akathisia, even if there’s no objective movement disturbances. The subjective component is characterized by racing thoughts. Mind running at 3000mph. Everyone’s experience with that in the form of neurological symptoms is different.

[AmitV]

On 3/8/2024 at 4:49 PM, Dee12h said:

@AmitV

Hope you’re getting some relief.

 

I took p5p two days in a row- 15mg & then 10 mg. First I got euphoria (not super strong), then felt very bad with muscle twitching & much worsening of my dizziness & dissociation, head pressure, then got really sleepy. It happened both times. I guess that’s an adverse reaction. 😒

 

I got some niacin & manganese to try later.

It seems everything (substance) that helps my mood/anxiety makes my dizziness worse. 🤷🏻‍♀️

it’s okay. Not everyone is p5p compatible. There’s lots of options on akathisia subreddit. Including simple things like lavender essential oil capsules. It’s a very strange disorder, one thing that works wonders for one person, does the opposite for another person.

[intothewoods]

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 3/5/2024 at 8:13 PM, AmitV said:

Unfortunately for me, my symptoms are quite hell. Much like fausts story, but I’ve had a big bump in improvement since I began the supplements. I did not take vitamin E, didn’t go well with me. 
 

practically every supplement he’s listed is one way or the other a glutamate converter, blocker or nmda antagonist. Turns down the stress chemical, gives damaged neurons a chance to regenerate and neuroplasticity to perform its function.

 

I'm sorry for your suffering. As my mom, an emergency room RN, said when she was nearly CT off long-term Effexor: "This is an evil no one can know." 

Faust's story is intriguing but we don't have the big picture. I agree that what he's listed targets the neurons/cortisol/synapsis/desperately-looking-for-dopamine issues we have. Anything that's not addictive but that can further neuroplasticity healing is worth pursuing. 

I will speak with my doctor about different routes of obtaining activated P5P and others. She's like a local Stuart Shipko for me, a gift beyond belief who's read Shipko and Whitaker and who loves and references Alto's article, Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology. https://doi.org/10.1177/2045125321991274. She's read "The Body Keeps The Score" and is keenly clued into even what the tiniest stressors can do to the chemically injured brain. I will share your findings and thoughts will her and report back.

 

Thank you for all your hard work, for digging for anything new to counter the drug damage. This is a years-long ride for most of us, whether we officially have psychotropics in our bloodstream or not. We will keep learning and helping each other.  

[intothewoods]

2 hours ago, AmitV said:

The effects of P5P are additive over time, unlike taking a psychiatric drug to get the same effect day after day. So patience and time at lower dosages, maybe all you may need to cross this path.

 

This really helps as I've reached a wall with stomach distress, even while reducing the P5P. But I see the benefit VERY clearly and that it is cumulative. I will try a lower dose and go slower. 

[intothewoods]

2 hours ago, AmitV said:

I always say there is a subjective component to akathisia, even if there’s no objective movement disturbances. The subjective component is characterized by racing thoughts. Mind running at 3000mph

Agree 1000 percent. 

[ShadowDancer]

BTW, you are talking to me on reddit as well, I told you about HPPDonline.

@AmitV

[AmitV]

On 3/10/2024 at 11:28 PM, ShadowDancer said:

BTW, you are talking to me on reddit as well, I told you about HPPDonline.

@AmitV

thank you for making me understand what I have. It’s been a painful ride with it. I don’t know how to solve this riddle?? I’ve been following hppdonline. My worst symptom is everything around me that constantly moves when I move my head as if my entire world skews and feels like sailing on a boat when walking. Even if I’m sitting and move my head, everything still skews. Unfortunately nothing so far has yielded improvements in that department. I’ve done a lot of research to understand my own chemistry based on some supplements such as NAC that helped me a lot to believe that something like memantine could really help me. But I don’t know, naturally I don’t want to take any drugs. But I’ve tried to scour for a matching mechanism in supplements and found huperzine A, which yielded nothing. So I really dont know. I took a small dose of clonazepam the other day, just to see how it affected my visuals, nothing! As for anxiety, did nothing for me, P5P is wayyy better in that department. 
 

i have a qeeg booked soon to understand what do I really have, and the areas of my brain that are hyperactive. Because internally I feel more calm than ever in my life, but I still have a loop of thoughts that keep running around in my mind, how my doctor ruined my life. My therapist is helping me with EMDR therapy for that. 

[Tapering2023]

On 2/10/2024 at 2:51 PM, AmitV said:

ouch!!! Definitely akathisia. Every bit of it. The general recommendation is to ride it out for atleast 3-6 months, since that’s usually the time frame it drops. If it hasn’t then, vitamin D, magnesium and multivitamin made me quite worse too. It’s not forever, but it can be very limiting and challenging. You can consider the 2nd and 3rd link below. There are other safe non pharma alternatives on akathisia reddit page as well. You will read more there, that what one person responds to small dosage of a particular supplement extremely well, another person gets the opposite effect. So it’s important to understand that. While I had a bad effect from magnesium, I had a positive response to mineral manganese.
 

the suicidal urges, and everything running at 3000mph was maddening for me! Luckily, manganese. Niacinamide and P5P put an end to that. I still have other sensory neurological symptoms, but they’re getting better.

 

https://akathisiaalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Guide-for-Clinicians-012224-editable.pdf

 

https://rxisk.org/pyridoxal-5-phosphate-and-akathisia/

 

https://isom.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/JOM_1976_05_1_02_Manganese_and_Niacin_in_the_Treatment_of_Drug-.pdf

 

i don’t encourage any supplement or drug that directly effects dopamine. It’s a dangerous game. High dopamine and dopamine blockade can exist at the same time. Niacin, Niacinamide is usually a safe bet in the way it removes the dopamine blockade. P5P increase gaba, and balances dopamine production. Yet, some people respond poorly to P5P. I haven’t heard any negative stories of niacin and niacinamide, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. 

How did you start to introduce the p5p manganese and niacin? 
 

 

[LostInCanada]

On 2/22/2024 at 10:59 AM, littlebird said:

More than one has told me not to read the informational inserts/potential side effects when starting a new medication.

Honestly disgusting... In Canada we don't even get informational inserts, just a summary from the pharmacy so what they deem important. 

[AmitV]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:09 AM, Tapering2023 said:

How did you start to introduce the p5p manganese and niacin? 
 

 

I started really slow. Started at 50mg p5p. 
 

niacin, is best started at 100mg a few times a day. Until you get used to the flush. Which will eventually subside.

 

managanese I started and stuck with 25mg. Managanese affects synaptic dopamine, so unless you have dyskinesia symptoms (any one of these - tremors, tics, twitches, excessive eye blinking, wobbly feet, other facial problems), this may be unnecessary. But it doesn’t hurt to try.

[AmitV]

I’m unable to attach large attachments to this but understanding that I’m an overmethylator. Was very important discovery, which is why I had SS and adverse reaction to SSRI. 
 

for folks who did extremely well on SSRI, but poorly on withdrawals. It’s helpful to understand that taking SSRI’s downregulates certain enzymes that are genetically coded. These genes can change their function upon exposure to SSRI’s, stress, trauma, etc. 

 

i ran a 23&me test. Uploaded raw data to geneticgenie. And my suspicions were correct. I’m an overmethylator, with a pre-existing high serotonin, high dopamine, high norepinephrine condition. SSRI was fuel on the fire!

 

 I’m someone who can be on benzos and come off it, like nothing ever happened, simply because of my genetic makeup. But naturally I’m not going to go that route at all. 
 

i learned from geneticgenie (free service - upload 23&me data) that I have a MTHFR A1298C mutation (overmethylator), and slow COMT. Extremely slow COMT when exposed to live stressors or a nervous system stressor such as SSRI, turns into a complete stress mess. Luckily nutrihacker (free service-upload 23&me raw data) told me precisely what vitamin b12 I needed desperately (Hydroxy b12, completely avoid methylb12). Naturally it lists several other supplements for a1298C condition which thankfully are P5P, niacin, manganese, that are targeted to high dopamine condition. 
 

nutrihacker also shows precisely which antioxidants are genetically suited for your needs.
 

the high dopamine condition was causing akathisia, depersonalization, racing thoughts, depression, agitation, addiction, restlessness. 
 

It was also causing hyperkinetic movement disorder (dyskinesia). Since dopamine is the primary transmitter of motor movements. Tremors, tics, twitches, and akathisia movements and much much more!
 

With p5p, niacin/mide, manganese all began to resolve very quickly. At this point the above have resolved. It took about 12 weeks and it all resolved.

 

i have just begun hydroxyb12 today, based on slow comt results. Which I desperately need to support, because it’s atrociously deficient. I sincerely hope, this paves the path to my recovery. 
 

The high dopamine and norepinephrine condition causes heavy activation of amygdala (fight-flight). By taking the above my thoughts slowed down, my anxiety dropped, my bouts of crying stopped. I could breathe much better, felt relaxed. Felt like someone pulled my head out of the bowl of ammonia and hosed it down with a firehose.

 

My hypervigilance towards visual symptoms became less and less, and with time blurred vision and double vision just went away. I could feel temperatures again and my mind could focus on the birds chirping rather than the overwhelm of symptoms. 

 

What’s left is tinnitus, visual snow syndrome and disequilibrium. 
 

I’ve lived a nightmare, I don’t wish upon anyone. 
 

and I pray for all, that the above knowledge may help someone in need. Personally I don’t have a problem being addicted to a few vitamins. Just ****ing get me out of my misery. 
 

as an overmethylator and slow comt, these 2 videos helped me a lot!

 

 

 

[peaceandlove]

On 2/12/2024 at 1:41 PM, AmitV said:

I know this feeling. I lived that everyday for over a year. Be patient, I understand the pain

did your akathisia go away? @AmitV

[AmitV]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:15 PM, peaceandlove said:

did your akathisia go away? @AmitV

Yes P5P and Niacinamide took care of it. Roughly 5 days to see an initial bump in improvement on the physical side, but took about 4-6 weeks to see the significant mental turmoil improvements.  At 3 week mark my DP/DR was gone.
 

I have other sensory symptoms that are still there, but many went away. 

[AmitV]

Wanted to share this with the community. It’s for Benzo withdrawals, but SSRI withdrawals are no different. The concept makes sense. All the other ones are fine, the agmatine theory is only tested on rats. So I won’t blindly trust that. Although, I’ve heard anecdotal evidence from people that it worked for them. Caution is advised with any of this. Treat this is as educational.

 

 

[LostInCanada]

You probably read this but it's a good one