Tapering2023: Medication or withdrawal?

[Tapering2023]

Do you have any forums on dealing with thoughts of self harm? 
 

Any forums on this being a withdrawal symptom and how long the healing process is? 

[Tapering2023]

The best course of action for me is to stabilize where I’m at at .683. No more dose increases or anything like that. Slowly adding in melotonin for sleep as I am not sleeping because I am not coping well with the constant self harm thoughts at night. Any thread with success stories would be helpful in this regard. 

[LotusRising]

Hi @Tapering2023

 

I know our thoughts can get quite dark sometimes while tapering, but know that they'll pass in time. I spent a lot of time reading success stories when I was at my worst. 

 

Here are a few links to topics that might help:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forum/28-success-stories-recovery-from-psychiatric-drug-withdrawal/

 

 

I hope some of these are helpful. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

LotusRising

 

[Tapering2023]

@Altostrata Do you have another scale you can recommend outside of the gemini-20? I am willing to spend more money for more accurate dosages. This scale has a high chance of being off by .005 which I'd like to avoid if possible. 

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 I use this one:

A&D EJ-54D2 Dual Range - 22g x 0.0002g / 52g x 0.001g Compact Balance

I know another member who uses:

Hanchen Electronic Analytical Balance, 0.1mg 220g Precise Digital Scale for Lab Pharmacy Chemical Plant Jewelry Store 220g/0.0001g

 

[Tapering2023]

Thank you! @LostInCanada

[Tapering2023]

@LostInCanada Are you using it for a liquid dosage?

[Tapering2023]

@LostInCanadacouple questions for you if you don’t mind… I am finding it difficult to get a certified m2 10mg calibration weight… does the scale you recommend come with a calibration weight? I found it on Amazon but didn’t see any weights coming with it. 
 

the 10mg weights I got with the Gemini-20 most of the time come up above or below 10mg even when I calibrate the scale, which is why I’m looking for a new scale and certified 10mg weight. 
 

Any insight on where to get these items would be much appreciated. 

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 You're welcome. I am using my scale for dry tablet weight and the scale comes with a 50 g calibration weight. I have noticed it not measured in even increments at the lowest weight. For example 0.0002 or 0.0004 etc, it does not do 0.0001 or 0.0003. Hope that helps.

[Tapering2023]

@LostInCanada Oh I won't be taking a dosage that low (hopefully). I'm at .683mg according to the gemini-20 now. Have you found that 50mg weight to be accurate? Hopefully, with a nearly $500 scale it is right! haha. Did you get it off amazon? https://www.amazon.com/EJ-54D2-Portable-Balance-0-0002-0-001mg/dp/B08S3WQTBG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=15HOUQ0X55HY3&keywords=A%26D+EJ-54D2+Dual+Range+-+22g+x+0.0002g+%2F+52g+x+0.001g+Compact+Balance&qid=1701641451&sprefix=a%26d+ej-54d2+dual+range+-+22g+x+0.0002g+%2F+52g+x+0.001g+compact+balance%2Caps%2C315&sr=8-1 

 

Sorry for all the questions... this is an important decision so I want to be clear

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 I find it accurate and the calibration is good. I googled it and found a private company. ( I am in Canada) They were willing to give me a good deal $600 cdn. I have seen some cheaper than Amazon in the States. It is alot of money for sure so make sure you can return it for a full refund if it isn't accurate or doesn't work the way you need it to. That is why I went through a Canadian company with a great reputation. 👍

[Tapering2023]

I have been having symptoms since August 19th - 109 days. A constant fear I have is how long is this going to take and is it withdrawal. Considering this hasn't been 4 months yet, I guess it is encouraging in a weird way. I am just shocked that withdrawal can last this long and be so severe with how carefully I've been tapering the last year. Do you guys notice longer windows over time or just a sudden stop of symptoms?

 

The symptoms got worse in October and could have been caused by a calibration issue on the gemini-20 scale, I am not sure. It was reading a 10 MG weight at 9.983, and I am not sure how long that lasted.

 

I updosed on October 22nd from .672 to .683, then noticed the wrong calibration of 9.983 for the 10 MG weight on November 12th.

 

I recalibrated the scale and decided to stay at .683. So I am not sure if this counts as an updose or not on November 12th. 

 

The last month I have had ups and downs. Periods where I could sleep for 5 days in a row, periods where I can't sleep for 2-4 like I am on now. 

 

Periods where akathisia flares up, this typically happens with lack of sleep. 

 

The depression waves and intrusive thoughts that come with it are the most difficult. Thoughts of will I ever heal and how long will this hell last.

 

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 I hope you are keeping a symptoms journal. I did a spreadsheet with symptoms and every day I rate them 1-10. It helps me see progress and also helps identify waves. I know some have been in waves for months. Hopefully accuracy in dosage will help you stabilize. It's been 3 weeks since them. I still feel I am stabilizing after a year. Definitely a crazy ride!

[Tapering2023]

Yea I have a symptoms journal where I log symptoms for the day, I also journal every night how the day was. Also dang man... is that after getting completely off or just withdrawal from a taper? I worry that if I make it 7 months and still have symptoms it would be hard to keep the faith. I can't image a year... I would start to worry that it's the meds themselves. I already worry about that. I wish I never read anything on adverse reactions at all and just knew about withdrawal so that fear wouldn't come in my mind everyday

 

 

[LostInCanada]

40 minutes ago, Tapering2023 said:

dang man... is that after getting completely off

It was from cold turkey so you will do better. Acceptance goes a long way and just being kind to yourself. You have done so well. I find a routine of waking and go to bed at the same time important. Also eating at the same times. A gentle walk in nature every day plus 20 minutes on the treadmill is also good for me. 

[Tapering2023]

Thanks that post meant a lot. Do you guys have any tips for akathisia? Anyway to minimize the severity of pain? 
 

already doing omega 3 magnesium and chamomile. They don’t really do anything for me. 

[LostInCanada]

Interestingly magnesium should be balanced with calcium intake. Suggested ratio is 1:2. They really shouldn't be taken together though. I find calcium helps me with restlessness. Zinc is also necessary for magnesium absorption. Do you get enough calcium and zinc in your diet? I find decaf tea (Stash vanilla chai decaf or Stash chai decaf) calms me better than chamomile. So much is individualized as well. 

[Tapering2023]

Thanks for the tips! 
 

interesting note on the calcium/zinc. I take grass fed whey protein twice a day, organic coconut milk, organic 2% milk, and another protein source everyday in a meal or two. So I should be getting enough calcium and zinc… 

 

interesting on the tea too… I’ll try that out! 

[LostInCanada]

L-theanine is naturally in black tea, you just have to make sure it is decaf. 

I am curious why you weigh the liquid. Is your liquid home made, pharmacy made or manufactured? Would it be more accurate to rely on using the same syringe brand and method of dilution? 

[Tapering2023]

I have a liquid version of lexapro. The amount of liquid I take weighed is the same I took in the syringe. I switched so I can be more accurate when tapering. 
 

I’ve been having withdrawal for almost 4 months, even with a less than 10% taper plan. 
 

Im not sure why it’s still continuing for so long. 
 

acute withdrawal is within 3 months if I understand correctly, and protracted is anything post 3 months right? 
 

I wish there was a way of knowing how long this would take but there’s so many factors. 
 

im not touching my dosage until I heal and even when I do stabilize I won’t be for another year after that.

 

im fighting for my life everyday right now. 

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 as the dosage gets smaller, many find that 10% is just too much. Often using the brass monkey slide works better even doing 1.5-2% drops at a time. Are you familiar with it? Also some do a long hold at various milestones such as 5mg, 2.5mg, 1 mg. That gives the body extra time to catch up. Do you remember the amount of the last dose when you still felt stable or were you having symptoms for awhile and kept tapering? So sorry you are still struggling.

[Tapering2023]

I can’t remember honestly. I just hope it’s not more than a few more months. I’m not sure how long I can do this. Hopefully it will at least get easier month to month. 
 

I don’t have a lot of stress at all right now. it is the holidays so that can add more stress, but only because my system has nonstop fears with social interactions outside of my routine. 
 

it sucks because I’m normally a social person, and it’s like my body is terrified of having any social interaction right now. this in of itself makes me depressed. 
 

im really hoping that this resolves next month and i can do some more social things. 

[Tapering2023]

@Altostrata I noticed in your signature that it says you had bad interactions with fish oil and vitamin D, two supplements notorious for helping depression. 
 

I’ve been taking both for a long time. 
 

4 high EPA omega 3 a day and vitamin D every other day now, as my blood was a bit high in vitamin D now. (It was low before which is why I started). 
 

I read that vitamin B6 can be toxic if not in P5P by a reputable source so I stopped taking it, I was taking it for 3 weeks. 

 

curious to hear your thoughts on vitamin D and omega 3s causing bad reactions…

[Altostrata]

That's not in my signature. If you have overdone the vitamin D, you should reduce it. Vitamin D is not good in overdose.

[Tapering2023]

Oh. Guess that was from an old post. Doc said to go to one every other day of the vitamin D. Been doing that for a month now. 

[Emonda]

4 minutes ago, Tapering2023 said:

Doc said to go to one every other day of the vitamin D. Been doing that for a month now. 

 

Would you say you've been feeling better or worse whilst taking vitamin D every second day? Did you have a deficiency?

 

Personally, I just stick with the two supplements I learned about on this site. I used to take vitamin B too, but I read here that it could be unhelpful, so I cut it out.

 

[Tapering2023]

Emonda, looking at your signature. How are you able to get such accurate taper dosages like you do? 
 

I have symptoms everyday honestly so it’s hard to tell what helps or doesn’t help. 
 

 

[Emonda]

6 hours ago, Tapering2023 said:

How are you able to get such accurate taper dosages like you do? 

 

I make my own liquid and reduce the liquid with a combination of syringes, the smallest syringe being a 0.5ml.

 

I was mixing a 5mg tablet with 10ml of water, but the reductions were getting too small. My chemist told me to start mixing the 5mg tablet with 20ml of water; then, the reductions wouldn't be so crazy small. I currently consume 9.73ml of the 20ml solution...((9.73ml/20ml) * 5mg = 2.43mg). The balance is kept for the next day

 

I'm consistent with the process every day. Same syringes (identical spares on hand just in case), same brand of tablets, same time, same process for crushing the tablet into tiny, tiny particles. 

 

No alcohol, and no other supplement other than magnesium and fish oil. I can normally sneak in two coffees in the morning (I shouldn't have had the 2nd this morning! heightened anxiety), but that's it. Exercise gives me much relief...but it's not helpful for everyone.

 

I still experience WD like everyone else...but it is working.

 

Hope this is helpful.

[Tapering2023]

Thanks for sharing.

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 I have been reading over your posts and am wondering when did you start weighing the liquid?

ML and mg do not equal each other. Many factors are involved such as density of the liquid and ratio of the drug. What is the drug ratio per ml on the bottle? You may be taking too much or not enough. 

[Tapering2023]

With all due respect lostin canada do you think it was wise to tell me that? 
 

I’ve already been trying to stabilize at .683mg weighed for a few months. 
 

that is what I have to stay at now regardless. Me going up or down is not something I’m going to do again. 
 

I will always be weighing the dosage from here on out now. 

I was taking .55 ml on a syringe and that came out around that on the weighing scale so that is what I went with. 

please do not tell me anything that is going to throw me into a panic. 
 

 

[Emonda]

Hey Tapering2023,

LostinCanada is a source of valuable knowledge and is greatly valued and respected here. 

 

We are sorry you are doing it tough at the moment...we are all on the same journey, and all have our tapering struggles, LostinCanada and myself included.

 

We need to support each other here. With time and continued patience (you've been very patient), you will succeed.

 

Emonda

[LostInCanada]

@Tapering2023 sorry for that. It definitely was not my intent. Just wish we could figure out why you aren't stabilizing.

[Tapering2023]

I just can’t “start over” again in this process. I’m not changing my dosage. .683 weighed with the Gemini-20 scale is where I’m going to have to stay. If I go another few months and don’t see any improvement, I’ll circle back. at this point changing dosages can cause kindling also, as if this already wasn’t as hellish as can be. 
 

The nervous systems already been in shock for 116 days (August 19th). I went from .672 to .683 October 22nd. Took NAD+ IVs around that time to survive and get some hope. Started having akathisia around that time. Don’t know what caused it. 
 

november 12th i found out the scale wasn’t calibrated properly. 10 mg was reading at 9.983. 
 

I also had pneumonia and had to take an antibiotic for a month. 
 

So there’s so many factors going into this I have zero clue what helps and what doesn’t. 
 

What I do know is I am sleeping better, my nervous system is still f ed, and each day is hell. 
 

I hope within the next few months the withdrawal will end. 

[Tapering2023]

The only thing I know to do is try and maintain a routine as much as possible. 
 

I’ve had to cancel exciting work trips next month because I can barely go to a social event without panicking. 

[Emonda]

1 minute ago, Tapering2023 said:

I also had pneumonia and had to take an antibiotic for a month. 

 

This would certainly have had an impact on how you feel and WD. Whenever I am sick with a virus etc, it makes WD feel so much worse.

 

2 minutes ago, Tapering2023 said:

What I do know is I am sleeping better

 

That's very positive.

 

3 minutes ago, Tapering2023 said:

I hope within the next few months the withdrawal will end. 

 

I'm sure you have already, but revisit some of the success stories. I spend time there when I am doing it tough.

 

3 minutes ago, Tapering2023 said:

I just can’t “start over” again in this process

 

We just want to ensure consistency and accuracy, that's all.

 

Keep fighting, mate.