lexicon: off ADs for 2 months and in horrible distress

[Skyler]

My GP will write script for Ativan, but I have enough for now,with a refill available ..The doctor I consulted prescribed K tablets.I have not yet picked up the K.Why do I need liquid K if I have the tablets Sky?I just need to know a method to cross to K, and not just switch abruptly ..Thanks for being there Sky ..Lexi

 

On the benzo sub forum.

[lexicon]

I decided to not cross over to K after all ..

Better to deal with the devil I know .. The liquid made me very ill, so my options are limited . I will be dry cutting the Ativan.

Please, if anyone has knowledge or any thoughts on this method of tapering, please help.

Wishing everyone well being...Thank you ..

Lexi

[abir]

good luck Lexi...have you started yet?

[abir]

oh i see that you started a week ago... you said that on the 4th day, you started experiencing symptoms only after taking the dose from which the cut is made, does that mean that the symptoms that you used to have before tapering are gone?? overall, are you feeling better or worse?? stay strong, i feel that you are going to feel better as you get to the lower doses... but take your time, don't rush... give your body enough time to heal before you do the next cut, if you need more than 2 weeks then do it...

thinking of you..

[lexicon]

Hi Abir,

thinking of you always, and wish that you are doing well ..

Abir, the symptoms with my head are always there ..I do not think that

they are going anywhere soon ..All my symptoms start with my head, and get worse ..

Maybe the detox center is to be blamed for that ..

But the tapering symptoms started with my head and stay around there ..

I worry about the cut being too big ..Some say yes, some say no ..It is at 5% ..

Maybe I need to go lower to 2.5% ..I see the Dr. next week ..maybe she will give me script to have the doses compounded ..

 

One thing for sure, the Ativan is ruining me ..

How are you doing Abir? I hope and pray that things are lifting up for you ..

We both need to hang in there and be hopeful ..I think this, but it is not easy ..

Thank you for thinking of me, and the support ..You are so sweet ..

Sending you much love, Lexi

[Skyler]

The symptoms with my head are always there ..I do not think thatthey are going anywhere soon ..All my symptoms start with my head, and get worse ..I worry about the cut being too big ..Some say yes, some say no ..It is at 5% ..Maybe I need to go lower to 2.5% ..I see the Dr. next week ..maybe she will give me script to have the doses compounded ..One thing for sure, the Ativan is ruining me ..

 

Hi Lexi... You need to weigh the side effects (paradoxical reactions) against the increased symptoms of tapering.  Given what I know about your situation, I'd reduce at a conservative rate of 5% a month for several months to see if the paradoxical symptoms seem to lessen.  Hopefully you will feel better than you do now as the month hold progresses.  Your default is to make a change when there is an uptick in symptoms, but constant tweaks will impede your taper. 

 

Unfortunately, it does not appear any course will immediately result in a lessening of your symptoms, so it's a matter of which represents the most overall gain.

[abir]

Lexi, hopefully when you hold for a while, you withdrawal symptoms will lessen... your body hated ativan from the the start and now that the dose is lower, it can finally start reversing the damage caused by it...... it will be hard, but it will be worth it... and you can do it... we will be with you...

 

Skyler, good luck with your taper, i hope it is going well..

[lexicon]

Sky I am sorry, I just read your post ..As usual, you are wise in your assessment of the situation.

I am feeling depressed today, and was questioning my decision to start the taper at the rate I did,

worrying that maybe it was too ambitious of a start.

I posted this concern in the Tapering thread.

 

But reading your post here, it makes complete sense, and I will follow your suggestions.

I am grateful that you are there ..Also, for your concern and care ..for your patience, and help.

Your reward will be from above ..

Thank you ..wishing you well always ..

Lexi

[lexicon]

Hi my sweet Abir ..Thank you for being here ..Also for your support and

encouragement ..

I hope you are right ..My body revolts to taking this drug ..

It cheers my morale to see you ..I have been feeling hopeless and depressed ..

But let me not continue with that down stuff.

I think of you, and pray you are doing much better.

Thank you for taking time to write.

Take good care of you ..

Love, Lexi

[lexicon]

Hello everyone,

I wonder if anyone can make some sense out of my predicament ..

t has been almost 3 weeks, since my first cut of Ativan.

In retrospect, it may have been an ambitious 5% cut.

I find that as time goes on, hoping to stabilize, it opposite happens.

The farther away I get from the cut, the more symptoms.

Does this make sense? I am feeling hopeless and in dispair..

Also, most symptoms are concentrated in my head, making it difficult to function.

In addition, my breathing has gotten worse, and labored.

Any suggestions, or thoughts, would be appreciated.

Thank you for reading this.

Lexi

[alex]

Hello my dear Lexi; what can I tell you...?

This process will take as long as it takes....

Keep walking, just keep walking.

I recommend you this book:RECOVERY AND RENEWAL by Bliss Johns.I got it from Amazon.

It has encouraging and important coping tools information about benzo and AD withdrawal.

 

"this too shall pass"

 

Hugs,A.

[Marie]

Hi Lexi,

 

Well just my opinion here. That could very well have been an ambitious cut. .125 mg is not a small cut under the best of circumstances and I think your CNS is still very fragile from your experiences with your ADs. So that will make this seemingly "innocuous" cut of 5% not so "innocuous."

 

Plus, since it's all individual here, it could have been too big of a cut anyway w/o the added issues of the ADs.

 

You are describing some typical benzo w/d sx with the "head problems" and the breathing problems. But I just think it's also that fragile CNS that just contributes to this overall. The only answer is to rest and hold for now. That seems like a "weak" response from me, but I truly think you just must do that. The patience and endurance this all takes is simply monumental not to mention courageous.

 

And those sx mat take a good while to resolve, and one just cannot forget the AD factor here. I'm using klonopin only, and really had no idea how these ADs and anti psychotics and others could just totally mess one up. But I will say now I know, and it's one reason if not the biggest one why I resist my own doctors attempts to try me on other meds while on this dumb, dumb, K.

 

Time is the measure of change my dad always used to say quoting Aristotle who was actually talking about physics at the time. But my dad is and was right. So you are a courageous woman as we all are here, and time will go by. We can't stop it. And I have to tell myself the same thing.

 

Marie

[lexicon]

Hello my dear Lexi; what can I tell you...?This process will take as long as it takes....Keep walking, just keep walking.I recommend you this book:RECOVERY AND RENEWAL by Bliss Johns.I got it from Amazon.It has encouraging and important coping tools information about benzo and AD withdrawal. "this too shall pass" Hugs,A.

You are so very sweet and encouraging Alex ..Thank you for taking the time to respond.I appreciate you, so much .. And you are right ..We have to keep walking ..I hope you are doing well, I think of you, and wish you wellness, and peacefulness ..Love Lexi.Ps. Thank you for suggesting the book, I will get it ..God bless Alex ..

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Lexi,

 

Apart from my sympathy, all I can share with you is my story and uneducated-about-benzos opinion.

 

First...the head symptoms. I had them coming off Zyprexa, and Wellbutrin, and now. One version is similar to how I've felt when I have been almost passing out from lack of sleep (worked nights, slept badly). And headaches. I think they are just the brain screaming.

 

From Dr. Google I get the impression that difficulty breathing is from over sedation. I really doubt you or I are lucky enough to have that. I am doing a fast, heavy breathing, like running upstairs too quickly....only I am peaceful in bed. I believe that breathing is from dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system. As you know, benzos activate the GABA system, which buffers and calms the nervous system. I am very sensitive to noise and startle easily, do you? If so, I think for both of us, our brains need more GABA to overcome the stress of stopping ADs. But our GABA management doesn't work right because it has been altered by the benzos...it's not flexible.

 

As you know, some people have been majorly affected by moving past these warning signs. I for one am even considering raising my dose...I just have to find a doc, and I would like people to give their opinions about you doing that. I think in the long-term, we will reach our goals faster by achieving stability first. Also, I think you were right when you said it is better to stick with the chemicals our brains already are familiar with. I am dividing capsules right now, and I am just eyeballing it. If the dose over 24 hours is right, I think that's good enough when one is not actively tapering.

 

So, what do you think?

[lexicon]

Thank you Marie,

I feel so much better, to read your words ..My mind wanders with all sorts of

scenarios with these symptoms, that I appreciate you putting things

into perspective.

Thank you for taking the time to post, and offer your opinion.

Your thoughts are valuable to me, and have merit.

I will continue to hold as you suggest ..Hoping that stability will come...

Take care of you Marie, as I know that you are struggling too.

Sending you a heartfelt thank you ..

Love, Lexi

[lexicon]

My dear Mei,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post ..

Your words bring comfort ..

I am saddened that you too, are going through the head symptoms ..These are the

symptoms, that keep me home bound Mei.

Also, thank you for the information about the GABA, and how it works..Any, and all information, is valuable to me ..

And yes, I do get sensitive to noise ..Today, my beautiful daughter was playing a

song I have always loved, to please me ..I started crying, and could not deal

listening to this lovely song.

Mei, you have been kind to me, since day one ..You are uplifting, supportive, and

caring. Thank you ..

About updosing, I am not sure ..I think I would feel as though

I am walking backwards ..All this pain and suffering these days,

should at least count for hope for stability.

Mei, please take care of yourself ..I think of you, and wish that all this

suffering will end.

Sending you love, Lexi

[catw66]

The problem is that antidepressants actually change the way the central nervous system, of which the brain is a part, functions. Some neurotransmitters are killed off and some new ones are grown by antidepressants, and the structure is artificial and abnormal. When the drug is removed, especially when it is removed abruptly, the CNS and the brain have to struggle to get back to normal on their own, and this is the source of many withdrawal symptoms. The CNS repairs itself in very unpredictable ways and this is probably what's behind the windows and waves pattern of recovery. This is also why a very long, slow taper is important. The CNS needs that chemical support, in gradually reduced amounts, to recover normal function as painlessly as possibleSo the fact that you're having anxiety attacks two months out is no surprise at all. Severe withdrawal for two months is also to be expected and it may continue for several more months. Or it may not. No one knows enough to predict how long because everyone's drug history and physiology is unique. Ativan was never meant as a cure for antidepressant withdrawal. It just takes a bit of the edge off withdrawal syndrome.I hope this explains some of what you're experiencing and that it helps.

 

 

 

Dear Jemima -

 

This is a very scary thought to me. Though before I ever started all this med business at around age 17, I always felt my soul was intact and my personality always on the depressive side with varying degrees of functionality, I suddenly feel like god knows what all this did to skew my decisions over time and influence my actions. I never felt quite sane ever and now that I am starting to slowly straighten out, though still tapering, I am getting a sense of some of the really bad decisions I made and the awful freaky people I allowed into my life that now seem like just a bad nightmare to me. It must be very strange for a lot of former psych patients and taperers to start getting a glimpse of some original self and feel detached at the same time looking back on everything. I still feel disassociated at times and numb - like who in the heck was that back there? I even have a hard time explaining it.

[catw66]

Dear Lexi - So sorry you've had such a time of it all and I know the symptoms you speak of. I decided to go really really slow with the withdrawal for a while due to I made myself so sick for a couple of days with flu like symptoms and the chills though it was hot out and the head stuff. So strange what chemicals can change and then their effected cells scream about once they are stopped. That is what it felt like to me - like something not me screaming for something that was never right in the first place. It is a hard place to be but I think faith in the healing and restorative powers of the brain, the body, and ultimately faith in one's soul to get oneself through this is essential. Hang in there!

[Meimeiquest]

Yes, Lexi, I was just sharing sort of random thoughts. I don't know at all what you should do. Because I am still working part-time, making myself homebound is a rather expensive way to be stubborn. But if you are already homebound, it is more a question of how much misery you can bear. I've often said that nothing has happened that I couldn't take lying down. May God give you guidance!

[abir]

Hello Lexi,

how are you feeling these days?  a little better I hope... if not yet, don't worry, you may take few weeks to stabilize but you will get there..

 

are you able to do anything to take your mind off your suffering? like facebook, reading, listening to music or is it still too early? 

hang in there, don't loose hope, you are not stuck in this suffering... try not to worry about anything.... or anyone...or the future... be selfish for now - just concentrate on yourself and stay away from any extra stress, you have enough to deal with...

 

sending healing thoughts and hugs..

Abir

[lexicon]

Hi mei,

Thank you for thinking of me and posting your thoughts ..

I appreciate you so very much ..

Mei how I wish to be able to move about with ease ..But it is the symptoms

that I get in my head, that prevent me from being mobile ..

How are you feeling? I think of you, and admire your strength and determination ..

Hang in there ..Your strength will carry you through ..

Sending you much love,

Lexi

[lexicon]

I miss you Abir,

I miss your everyday presence ..But I am grateful when you stop by..

Thank you so very much ..Thank you for your support, and your encouragement ..

For your comforting words too ..They mean so much ..I do loose hope Abir ..

And your words, bring me courage ..

You are precious to me ..

Still holding from the first cut, with new symptoms such as relentless naucea ..

Ginger tea helps a little, but not much ..

How are you? Are you feeling a little better? Have you gained some of your strength back?

Know that I think of you, and wish that you will find your way out of this tunnel..

Sending you much love,

Lexi

[starlitegirlx]

Hi lexi,

 

I'm hoping you are doing better. I wished I could have helped you more. I think after a certain point I just felt bad about it. I hate seeing people suffer. I think it's why I don't really read many of these threads or limit how I do.

 

Sorry you have nausea. Ginger snaps and tea are good. Go easy on yourself. I'll be thinking healing thoughts for you. I'm sorry you are in this hell and sad that the docs did this to you. It's just not right. Sometimes things that I see happen in this world make me too sad for words. I get people being frustrated and acting out when they are suffering because it's drove them batty. I can empathize with a certain aspect of that. It's the lack of compassion that gets me though, docs doing stuff like yanking patients on and off these meds like they are candies. They never stop to think. They just run you through their office like it's an assembly line and never consider what they have done to you. Detox clinics, uncaring docs... it all makes me sick.

 

Well, I'm sending healing thoughts your way. I hope you start feeling better soon. It's been a lot of months and I know you must be worn out.

[abir]

hey lexi, how are you feeling these days? you see any improvement yet? if not don't worry, you just need more time...

it is just a matter of time... take care of yourself

[lexicon]

Abir, where did you disappear to?

I have missed your presence, and think of you each day, hoping that you

are doing better and better ..

Still struggling here with symptoms ..This whole situation is just terrible ..

I do not wish it on anyone ..

Abir, please write when you can ..I truly miss my friend ..

I appreciate your encouragement so very much ..Thank you Abir, for thinking of me, also for your support ..

Always know that I am thinking of you, and praying for your well being.

Sending you love, Lexi

[abir]

i am here my friend... wishing that there is anything i can do or say to make you better....

so sorry that you are still struggling... yes this thing is so terrible.. but we will get through it... no matter how long it will last... i can't believe it has been 11 months for me, i don't know how i survived those months... but i did... just like you survived all those months of suffering... i guess we are stronger than we thought we were... hang in there, we still have rough months ahead of us, but we will make it... let us just take it one day at a time ...

i hope the next time we connect you will be feeling better...

[Petunia]

Ginger tea helps a little, but not much .. 

 

I know what you mean about it helping, but not much.  I often get nausea in the morning along with my other symptoms, but I think its a different kind of nausea which doesn't seem to respond to traditional remedies.

 

For me, its the ritual of making the tea and then sitting with it and feeling the warmth of the cup in my hands which seems to help more than the actual ginger.

 

I hope you are feeling better, keep taking good care of yourself.

[lexicon]

Thank you Petu,

I am thankful that you stopped by, offering some support and

encouragement. How sweet and touching is that ..

I will try your method of drinking the ginger,

as it sounds comforting ..

Wishing you well being always.

Love, Lexi

[lexicon]

Abir, it is a quite celebration that happens, each time you stop by my friend ..

I miss your presence, and the everyday "talks " of months ago.

Thank you for not forgetting, and still coming by ..

 

I think of you, and pray that your pain will be taken

away ..I hope that is so ..That you are having more windows,

and feeling better, as time goes by.

 

From my end, I still have what seems like a Mountain in front of me ..I look up at it, and it is so very intimidating ..Then I look down at my feet,

hoping that they will get the courage to start climbing ..

One step at a time, I recall someone saying ..

Please know that I think of you daily ..Please write when you time permits.

With love and hugs my friend, Lexi

[abir]

Thank you for your welcoming words   and thank you for your prayers and thoughts...

 

i am still struggling with my mixed anxiety/depression/weeping... almost daily...for the whole day... it gets better at night...starts again early morning..... still spending most of my days lying in bed.... i think the last few weeks were worse... but i have been taking antibiotics a lot for recurrent and persistent UTIs so maybe that has something to do with it.....

 

how are you feeling these days? do you feel like you are starting to stabilize a bit now that you have been holding for a while?

[lexicon]

Hi everyone,

I need some thoughts, or help please.

I am tapering Ativan, but have been holding for a month since the second cut.

Meantime, we evened up the doses, but things are not running smoothly.

 

My symptoms have always centered around my head mostly, with pressure,

and unbearable heaviness, numbness,

crawling sensations, plus labored breathing, unsteadiness, hyperosmia.

 

But recently I have had several new symptoms added, like bad headaches,

burning feeling in my stomach, muscle spasms and twitching, some kind of

vibrations in my abdomen, tiny tremors in my hands and feet, dizziness,

depression and crying, an overall unwell feeling,

and my heart beats feel heavy and frightening.

Also my BP is unstable, reaching 180/100 two nights ago, landing me in the ER.

Every test came out normal.

 

Please, is anyone going, or has gone though any of these symptoms?

Do you have any suggestions?

I will be most grateful ..Thank you, Lexi

[alex]

Hello Lex; I'm so sorry you are going through this hell.

It seems to be the price to pay to get free from the damn psy drugs.

As horrendous as it is, ALL those symptoms are signs of your body healing and trying to get homeostasis (balance)

I got this book from Amazon, it's called "Recovery and Renewal" written by this lady (Bliss Johns) who recovered from benzo adiction and w/d, and she describes ALL kind of weird, bizarre symptoms, and how they change and overlap.

Maybe it would be helpful for you to get it because it has important and empowering information about benzo and AD withdrawal, symptoms, and how to cope better.

 

"THIS TOO SHALL PASS"

 

Sending you lots of love and healing vibes, A.

[lexicon]

Thank you Alex, You are so sweet and kind always, with a kind word,

support and encouragement ..

I will get the book, thank you ..

Ooh, how I hope that "this too shall pass " Alex, as this is so hard to bear

I wish that you are doing good Alex ..Please know that you are never far from

thought, and always in prayer ..

Sending you love, and thoughts of well being ..

Take good care of you.

Love and hugs, Lexi

[Meimeiquest]

The only symptom of those that I know of is hypertension, I think it is a common problem in benzo withdrawal. Mine spiked to 180/110 in my "pseudo" benzo withdrawal when I stopped the AD. As the withdrawal is settling, my BP has settled down, but I am still weaning off BP medicine. I check my BP at home frequently as it still goes up in the dr office....for some odd reason going to the dr. makes me anxious. I hope you can find some relief soon, Lexi! Oh, I have labored breathing and a hard racing pulse when I'm near a dose sometimes.....sympathetic overdrive.

[lexicon]

Hi my sweet Mei, I am sorry that you are familiar with some of this mess ..

I do not know why it is that when my head symptoms start acting up, my BP goes up as a reaction. And it goes up in steps it seems ..Starting at 145 to 158,

and so on ..

Mei, I hope that we find some kind of serenity through all this ..

I find that when it comes close to taking a dose, I get naucea, and an upset stomach.

Thank you for your kind, caring heart ..

Please look after you, and know that you are in thought and prayer always.

Love and hugs, Lexi

[Skyler]

Hi Lexi... I too read Bliss Johns book, Recovery and Renewal a while back, when I was just starting to come off Klonopin.  I agree with Alex, the book might be helpful to you.  Bliss did have many of the symptoms you describe.  I would suggest other initiatives she is involved in, but the last I knew she subscribed to the tolerance withdrawal concept.. and I agree with Rhi on this, virtually everything that is deemed to be TD is in actuality lag time catching up or side effects.  I recently held for a year with no ill effects.. given this notable exception, I recommend the book because she gives detailed descriptions of many of the WD symptoms you are experiencing.