☼ Wildflower0214 Effexor WD and PTSD

[Wildflower0214]

Have you had your blood sugar tested lately, Wild? I'm thinking I need to do this as well, as I have signs of diabetes and/or insulin resistance. The problem is I also have "procrastination". LOL.

Nope, I haven't. I feel like everything else it is probably swinging from one end to the other. I am most days just trying to stay out of absolute crippling despair and trying to deal with the OCD awfulness that is plaguing me. So, in doing that, I don't have much time to consider much else.

 

Did you have symptoms of diabetes before WD and before meds?

 

Thx for checking on me

[AliG]

No , I was "perfectly healthy" , Before "meds".  Also dealing with "crippling despair", and have a fear of "doctors".  I don't like "tests".

[Wildflower0214]

Awwwww Ali, I'm so sorry. I hope everything for all of us ends up relatively where it used to be as far as our health goes. Prayers. Xo

[Wildflower0214]

This is random, but I hope it helps someone in the future who reads this. You know, I have seen soooooo many people act like mundfulness and meditation are totally risk free. And I have had a couple instances with mediation that did not go well. I felt like I was being sucked down the rabbit hole. It was troubling and honestly a bit traumatic.

 

There have been times when I found mindfulness useful, and yet during this I have also experienced it making things worse.

 

I don't undersatnd why people act like this stuff is risk free when a simple Google search about the risks of mindfulness and mediation will prove that it is not only me

who has had these kinds of experiences and sometimes there are people with much worse reactions than I have had. And yet, if I said this in certain circles people would look at me like I had no sense whatsoever.

 

Rant over.

[freespirit]

Hi Wildflower,

 

I don't find this to be a rant. I believe there are valid concerns over meditation.

 

I too, have found parts of it useful. But after a lot of years of practicing it, I gave it up. This followed a traumatic experience at a week-long retreat. I'd done many retreats over the years, with mixed experience. I finally came to see that the retreats were too closely replicating my childhood and triggering PTSD. And spending days alone with no support in the midst of it was making it worse. It led me to question what I'd been doing and made a decision to let it go.

 

Around the same time, my meditation teacher sent me this guy's dissertation on meditation and trauma: http://www.academia.edu/426785/Meditation_Trauma_and_Contemplative_Dissociation

I think when someone has PTSD, there can definitely be some potential issues with meditation.

 

Plus, a number of meditation teachers recommend that you not meditate while depressed. That makes sense on many levels. But I came to think, "what use is a practice that you can't use when you need it most"?

 

I know that meditation, like anything else, is different with each individual...based on a multitude of factors. Personally, I have concerns about the way mindfulness has been popularized to a huge degree..with people teaching it who have zero understanding of the psyche or of trauma. It can be an incredibly deep and rich process, but often requires good support..especially when people have trauma. 

 

I appreciate you expressing your concerns.

[Wildflower0214]

Hi Wildflower,

 

I don't find this to be a rant. I believe there are valid concerns over meditation.

 

I too, have found parts of it useful. But after a lot of years of practicing it, I gave it up. This followed a traumatic experience at a week-long retreat. I'd done many retreats over the years, with mixed experience. I finally came to see that the retreats were too closely replicating my childhood and triggering PTSD. And spending days alone with no support in the midst of it was making it worse. It led me to question what I'd been doing and made a decision to let it go.

 

Around the same time, my meditation teacher sent me this guy's dissertation on meditation and trauma: http://www.academia.edu/426785/Meditation_Trauma_and_Contemplative_Dissociation

I think when someone has PTSD, there can definitely be some potential issues with meditation.

 

Plus, a number of meditation teachers recommend that you not meditate while depressed. That makes sense on many levels. But I came to think, "what use is a practice that you can't use when you need it most"?

 

I know that meditation, like anything else, is different with each individual...based on a multitude of factors. Personally, I have concerns about the way mindfulness has been popularized to a huge degree..with people teaching it who have zero understanding of the psyche or of trauma. It can be an incredibly deep and rich process, but often requires good support..especially when people have trauma.

 

I appreciate you expressing your concerns.

Thank you so much for responding. I really appreciate your sharing your experience. It helps give me some much needed validation. It seems like my therapist and many other people seem to think it is the key to fixing everything and I totally disagree.

 

I think for some people it can be really really useful. But we are all individuals and what is helpful to someone else can be harmful to me.

 

It becomes very frustrating because of my faith. I am a Christian and when people know that, they assume I am just being close minded. And, this is simply not the case and really hurtful. I came to these practices with an open mind and did not like the experience I had. That's all. There is nothing more to it than that.

 

For so long, no one understood my position. I have read two accounts while being here that have finally shown me I'm not alone in this.

 

Again, thank you so much for your response. I truly appreciate it.

 

My prayers and well wishes are with you for peace, hope, and recovery.

[SelmaLady]

WF, I understand where you coming from, I think.  I surely can't do meditation when I'm in this much of a "well".  I have to struggle to stay connected to the outside world!  I so believe that, as we are recovering from a brain in chaos that we need to find those things that help us persevere and get through this nightmare as best we can.   During my first recover from Valium w/d, all I could do was to stare at the TV and walk around my neighborhood.  In time, my brain came more and more back on line and I was able to begin to become more functional.  I did try biofeedback---disaster---made  me feel even more buried in my own brain.   And any attempt to try and sort out what kinds of trauma and maladjustments I'd had was out of the question.  Just surviving the process of brain healing is what I think to be all that we can do. 

[freespirit]

Wishing you the very best with your recovery too WF. I appreciate your good wishes towards me.

 

I've had quite a number of experiences over the years with things that were helpful to others, but proved traumatic for me. A lot of that was related to "therapy", but also to some forms of spiritual practice. I don't think there's a one-size fits all for anything. Having PTSD complicates things very much, at least it has for me.

 

In the meditation community I was a part of, mindfulness was the practice most recommended. I found the Metta (loving kindness) and other heart-centered practices a lot more beneficial. But teachers nearly always guided me away from that towards mindfulness. If I had only trusted my intuition and followed what felt right to me, I think I'd have been much better off.

 

Now, I do a form of movement meditation. Perhaps the years of other things I did laid a foundation..or maybe this would have been the best kind of thing for me all along. There was no way for me sit and meditate through the things I've been through in recent years. But I can practice the moving meditation at any time and it's helped me in ways that nothing else has that I've tried over the past 3 decades.

 

I know people on this board who have said mindfulness has really helped them through wd. I would never discount that. Each of us finds our own medicine in many different forms. I wouldn't say I'd never go back to it either...but at the moment, I find no reason to.

 

I'm glad you felt some validation from my post. It's very difficult feeling one is somehow flawed or wrong because what has worked for others proves to be the wrong thing for oneself. Take care.

[Wildflower0214]

WF, I understand where you coming from, I think. I surely can't do meditation when I'm in this much of a "well". I have to struggle to stay connected to the outside world! I so believe that, as we are recovering from a brain in chaos that we need to find those things that help us persevere and get through this nightmare as best we can. During my first recover from Valium w/d, all I could do was to stare at the TV and walk around my neighborhood. In time, my brain came more and more back on line and I was able to begin to become more functional. I did try biofeedback---disaster---made me feel even more buried in my own brain. And any attempt to try and sort out what kinds of trauma and maladjustments I'd had was out of the question. Just surviving the process of brain healing is what I think to be all that we can do.

I totally agree. I tried biofeedback too. It was alright but I wouldn't say it helped.

 

I spent so much time trying to defend my position about not wanting to participate any longer in these practices and like I said above, I ended up being painted as somehow damaged or hypervigelent.

 

I think that whatever helps someone get through this is what they should do. I think distraction is what works for me right now and even a certain amount of denial. I don't think that is unhealthy. My brain knows how much I can process right now, and I simply can't take in the full affect of all of this. And I'm ok with that.

 

We do what we can. We all do what we need to do to survive.

 

Thanks Selma... Love you and glad the tetnus shot went well. Xoxox

[Wildflower0214]

Wishing you the very best with your recovery too WF. I appreciate your good wishes towards me.

 

I've had quite a number of experiences over the years with things that were helpful to others, but proved traumatic for me. A lot of that was related to "therapy", but also to some forms of spiritual practice. I don't think there's a one-size fits all for anything. Having PTSD complicates things very much, at least it has for me.

 

In the meditation community I was a part of, mindfulness was the practice most recommended. I found the Metta (loving kindness) and other heart-centered practices a lot more beneficial. But teachers nearly always guided me away from that towards mindfulness. If I had only trusted my intuition and followed what felt right to me, I think I'd have been much better off.

 

Now, I do a form of movement meditation. Perhaps the years of other things I did laid a foundation..or maybe this would have been the best kind of thing for me all along. There was no way for me sit and meditate through the things I've been through in recent years. But I can practice the moving meditation at any time and it's helped me in ways that nothing else has that I've tried over the past 3 decades.

 

I know people on this board who have said mindfulness has really helped them through wd. I would never discount that. Each of us finds our own medicine in many different forms. I wouldn't say I'd never go back to it either...but at the moment, I find no reason to.

 

I'm glad you felt some validation from my post. It's very difficult feeling one is somehow flawed or wrong because what has worked for others proves to be the wrong thing for oneself. Take care.

Yes, I agree PTSD most definitely complicates things. I'm happy you have found what works for you. That is part of what I am learning through this, is how to tell people no and how to move forward with what I feel is best for me.

 

We all have to find our own way. I have never been more convinced of the complexity of our individuality both biologically and emotionally. We are all unique in so many ways. And, this is teaching me to respect that in myself and in others.

 

Thanks again.

[AliG]

 Thanks for the  warning, Wild. I had no idea there were risks associated with "meditation". I keep thinking that I need to do it, but can never bring myself to do it. Maybe it's  my body's instinct, to stay away from it.   I'm like F. S too, in that "therapy" for "trauma", has never been productive for me either. It has only ever, "re - traumatized " me.  You're right, we all have to do what works, for us individually. We're all  so different. It's good that you are "setting boundaries ", for yourself.  I'm trying to do the same, and also "being kind to myself" and not putting too much pressure on.  There are limits to what I can and can't do at the moment, and I'm trying to be accepting of that. I hope we all can.

[Wildflower0214]

Thanks for the warning, Wild. I had no idea there were risks associated with "meditation". I keep thinking that I need to do it, but can never bring myself to do it. Maybe it's my body's instinct, to stay away from it. I'm like F. S too, in that "therapy" for "trauma", has never been productive for me either. It has only ever, "re - traumatized " me. You're right, we all have to do what works, for us individually. We're all so different. It's good that you are "setting boundaries ", for yourself. I'm trying to do the same, and also "being kind to myself" and not putting too much pressure on. There are limits to what I can and can't do at the moment, and I'm trying to be accepting of that. I hope we all can.

Yes, we all need to learn to set boundaries for sure. I think this is one of the healthiest things we can possibly do through all of this. And, also being nice to ourselves, as you mentioned.

 

I'm so comforted that I have found others that have been through similar experiences as I have with the meditation. It is extremely validating, when nearly everyone else I have mentioned my concerns to has looked at me like I had four heads.

 

Trauma is tricky...I know, unfortunately through personal experience. And I'm not sure how I will proceed when I am well enough to try and process it all. I'm not sure therapy will play a part. But, I don't rule it out either.

 

I will pop over to your thead in the near future. Thanks for stopping by. I always appreciate your kindness and support.

[Wildflower0214]

I don't know if anyone else happened to notice. But tonight there is a new moon with what I think to be Venus right above it. It is beautiful.

 

I spoke to a friend thousands of miles away and he and I watched it together. Me on my porch and he on the beach.

 

It's comforting to know, no matter where I am, I can always see the moon. It's like a small peice of stable ground, it feels so good underfoot when I have been plodding around and falling into potholes and sinking muck.

 

Thankful for any predictability and stability I can find, no matter how small.

[luv2knit]

Sounds lovely, WF. Wish I had been able to see it!

[Wildflower0214]

Sounds lovely, WF. Wish I had been able to see it!

It was really pretty.

[Wildflower0214]

http://cepuk.org/2015/07/18/rapid-withdrawal-misprescribing-benzodiazepine-leads-1-35m-settlement-luke-montagu-cep-co-founder/

 

This was so validating. This man is a member of British aristocracy, an earl, and a co-founder of the Council for Evidence Based Psychiatry. God bless him.

[SelmaLady]

I had read that on a another site and had wanted to post it as it is so validating that this thing effects so many types of people.  He is very brave to put it out there like he did.  How many people are not going to believe him???   It was so good to read too that he is finally beginning to see some emotional healing.  Yes, God bless him for sure.

[Wildflower0214]

I had read that on a another site and had wanted to post it as it is so validating that this thing effects so many types of people. He is very brave to put it out there like he did. How many people are not going to believe him??? It was so good to read too that he is finally beginning to see some emotional healing. Yes, God bless him for sure.

Yes, it was enormously validating. Maybe people will begin to pay attention to this now. It sets precedent for sure.

[Wildflower0214]

Well, I am trying again to add food. I ate a half of a small spoon full of an egg, and I feel funny...kind of like I want to laugh and cry at the same time and having anxiety in my chest.

 

I don't know whether I will give it a few days and try again, or just give up on the egg and wait a week or so and try another food.

 

I have literally been living off of the same foods for 9 months and I have to figure this out. There has to be something I can eat.

 

I'm so tired of all of this. It's so discouraging.

[luv2knit]

Good Luck, WF. I hope you are successful in finding something else you are able to eat!

 

XOXO

[Wildflower0214]

Me too. This is becoming ridiculous. It's very frustrating. I hope you feel better soon. I'm sorry you are struggling so much. Praying

 

Xo

[Wildflower0214]

Well it's 3:30. And I'm awake because of one half spoonful of eggs.

 

No words

[luv2knit]

So sorry, WF. Praying this is short-lived.

 

XOXO

[Wildflower0214]

Thank you for the support.

 

Xoxo

[AliG]

This whole thing just gets to the point of being "ridiculous".  It's so hard to fathom, even when you know what is happening.  It's an exercise in "patience &  patience".   So sorry for your pain.    Hugs,  Ali.

[WiggleIt]

Hi

[AliG]

 hi Wiggle, How are you?  I hope you're ok.  Please let us  know how you are going .

[Wildflower0214]

Ali, ridiculous it is! Just one big huge bleeping mess!!! I couldnt come up with this stuff if I tried!!! It's like from some science fiction novel. Totally unbelievable!!!

 

I hope you are coping alright, I know it's been rough for you lately. God, I hope this ends for us all sooner rather than later!!!!!

[Wildflower0214]

Hi

Wiggle, just read and responded to your thread. I'm glad to see you here, but I'm sorry it's because you don't feel well. I was hoping you were gone because you felt better.

[Wildflower0214]

I think what is going on with the food is Mast Cell Activation which usually accurate with POTS.

 

And all this points to nothing that great. I'm trying to have a positive attitude, but it's not easy when it seems like I have more than one factor complicating this whole thing.

[SelmaLady]

I did a little research in mast cell.  Hard to understand how our bodies/brains are so complicated and interdependent.  I think in the past the thot was that we had segregated systems working in tandem.  Now it seems that they are all intertwined.  Hopefully, we can try to anticipate what will exacerbate a system so terribly over sensitized.  I'm so sorry the egg experiment didn't turn out well.  It's so hard to grasp that something as "normal" as an egg can upset your system. 

 

So praying that this will reset itself, WF. xoxoxo

[Wildflower0214]

Yes, it's one big confusing mess! It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I never really had problems with food. I mean looking back I can remember having rapid heart rate and fatigue after meals with large amounts of sugar and carbs, and I have had migraines off and on since I was a child. So, I know there was something fishy going on with food there too.

 

But, all in all the worst case scenario was I ate too much pasta at Olive Garden after church and had to take a nap. Lol It wasn't life altering.

 

The article I read said that Mast Cell may be an explanation for mental illness....even in those that develop PTSD. Really interesting and slightly depressing, honestly.

 

It has to resolve sometime....I just want what I was before all of this. It wasn't perfect. The POTS made me tired sometimes and I had some issues, but I was functional and working and generally reasonably happy.

[luv2knit]

WF--I TOTALLY get that! My life with CFS was far from normal, but it was also quite different than it is now!!

 

Praying this all settles for you soon!!

 

XOXO

[WiggleIt]

Which foods are you currently able to tolerate? I know your list changed a bit.

[Meimeiquest]

That's really interesting that POTS is turning out to be an autoimmune disease. There's a functional medicine nurse practitioner here in Franklin who is supposed to be amazing with AI issues. Hint, hint . She would say it is totally a gut thing. She had lupus herself at one time. If you have POTS, that may be more where your problems are coming from than withdrawal, it's hard to say. And then PTSD...you so have your hands full! I wish it wasn't so hard!

[Wildflower0214]

Which foods are you currently able to tolerate? I know your list changed a bit.

Yellow squash

Zucchini

Peas

Green beans

Apples

Pineapple

Grapes

Millet

Butter

Cashews

Almonds

Red meat

 

I've lost....

Eggs

Cucumbers

Collard greens

Broccoli

 

It's going on 10 months of the same food