Flowers: tapering citalopram

[nick1990]

Flowers - Im sure it was the generic that has caused this. Remember what was said about there being a 20% difference in active ingredient? Picture that you did a 20% reduction. That's what I did when I crashed. I up dosed after 3 months! The updose didnt do much if anything it made me feel drugged more. The anxiety and depression still hung around, but over time I recovered. It took time but gradually I got my life back. You will too. Its so hard I know -but your strong. You'll get better and you will continue tapering successfully. You have been dealt a hard blow, but this is a lesson. In the future you will know not to change brands. Just hold tight, be good to yourself, rest, bathe, breath and drink plenty of raw juice/smoothies to get adequate nutrients. You'll get there!

Your nervous system doesn't want to change doses.

Sending love and hugs from New Zealand

Xxx

[Flowers]

Hi Martina - I don't think the updose caused anything. I think I have been getting worse since Dec 18 when I got a big wave!

 

I am going to stay where I am now and see how things go.

 

I think you are right about being in the fresh air for the depression. The weather today has not been nice enough for me to have my usual walk. Hope I will get one tomorrow.

 

Hope you manage to have a good weekend. Thank you for writing to me.

 

xxxx Flowers

[Frogie]

Hi Flowers:

 

I'm so sorry you aren't feeling well.

 

Maybe you need to just rest and take it easy. Take a nice bubble bath and watch a movie.

 

Hopefully you will feel better soon. I'll be thinking of you.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Hopefull]

Hi Flowers,

 

Hang in there, things will get better.

Take care, Hopefull.

[Flowers]

Thanks Frogie and Hopefull - means a lot you visiting me.

 

xxx Flowers

[Flowers]

Flowers - Im sure it was the generic that has caused this. Remember what was said about there being a 20% difference in active ingredient? Picture that you did a 20% reduction. That's what I did when I crashed. I up dosed after 3 months! The updose didnt do much if anything it made me feel drugged more. The anxiety and depression still hung around, but over time I recovered. It took time but gradually I got my life back. You will too. Its so hard I know -but your strong. You'll get better and you will continue tapering successfully. You have been dealt a hard blow, but this is a lesson. In the future you will know not to change brands. Just hold tight, be good to yourself, rest, bathe, breath and drink plenty of raw juice/smoothies to get adequate nutrients. You'll get there!

Your nervous system doesn't want to change doses.

Sending love and hugs from New Zealand

Xxx

Nick Thank You! Sending hugs and love back!

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Update:

 

9 doses since updose.

 

10pm take Citalopram. Manage to sleep until 630 when awoken by heart palps. Waking feeling really drugged but unable to go back to sleep.

 

 

 

Go to bathroom and unsteadiness/nausea/wretching is worse probably due to feeling more drugged.

 

 

Diarrhea is not so bad but can't eat breakfast. No appetite but eat lunch and dinner husband has put in front of me.

 

Feel drugged and balance is off and unable to do much last couple of days. Getting harder to get out of bed and function.

 

Just feel whoozy and drugged but not able to sleep during day.

 

9pm Drugged feeling still there but not so bad.

 

10pm Take Cit.

 

11pm Go to bed. Feel really hungry but stay in bed and fall asleep.

 

Depression very much at the forefront of things all day with anxiety and muscle twitching following closely behind.

 

No interest in what is going on around me. Don't want to read or watch TV. Sofa bound.

 

I feel like I will just end up staring into space completely vacant and someone will take me to the funny farm.

[joy2730]

Oh Flowers

 

What a difficult situation to be in.  I admire your courage and determination because I would, as you know, just rush back to 20 mg. 

 

I appear to be doing well with my very small cut, in the past I would have reduced again at this point, but I know now that is the road to disaster.

 

I can't suggest anything to help you as you are doing something I have never managed to do, and for that I admire you enormously.

 

The feelings of depression you are experiencing are probably not real depression, but drug induced (I had something like that when I reduced dothiepin) and are like a fake depression caused by the withdrawal.  Such neuro depression is seen as worse than the original depression by many people. I do wish we could have drugs that didn't have these serious adverse effects.

 

On a different note my breastfeeding daughter had a serious depression 10 years ago, was treated with sertraline for 2 years and came off it with no trouble and has been well every since, but are there any links on this site to breastfeeding while on antidepressants?  We are skyping while I am working away and I thought she looked unwell yesterday, probably nothing.  I am seeing her tomorrow in the flesh and have taken an extra day off this next week to just be available if she needs me.

 

Flowers, take comfort from your good husband, mine just tells me to go back on the pills.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

I am doing my best but must say am very disappointed that the updose hasn't had a more positive outcome yet. Yes, it is tempting to go even higher and I know that has worked for you. I am just scared it will make things worse.

 

I suppose the depression I am feeling is drug induced as I never had depression before AD's. I was put on them for anxiety! I feel like poo and my husband has gone out this morning to do some sport with his mates. I think it is good for him to have a break from all this AD stuff.

When he gets back I am going to see if he will take me for a short walk - it might help take my mind off myself! Being unsteady on my feet doesn't help the walking!

 

I hope your daughter is OK - she is most probably just tired from all the stress of a new baby. I am sure there must be mothers who are on AD's breastfeeding but I don't suppose that is a very good idea as the baby will get some of the AD through the milk.

 

I am glad you are slowing things down nicely with your taper and are keeping well enough to work. I certainly can't work like this and that is a worry for me too.

[joy2730]

Hi Flowers

 

Isn't it a rough and lonely place to be and no one can provide the answers, and there are lots of unknowns.  People who have never taken these pills can't understand the dilemnas.

 

Take care and let us all know how it is going - good and bad.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Flowers

 

Isn't it a rough and lonely place to be and no one can provide the answers, and there are lots of unknowns.  People who have never taken these pills can't understand the dilemnas.

 

Take care and let us all know how it is going - good and bad.

 

Joy

Thanks Joy. I am scared I don't mind telling you!

 

Husband is just back so will see if I have the strength to get out for a bit.

 

Speak soon.

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Couldn't get out. I am so weak, wobbly and I cannot coordinate my movements.Cool and clammy. Legs are all over the place like I am drunk. I had this when first in WD after too quick taper.

I am finding it hard to form words to speak. How come I can communicate on the computer?!

 

Can't eat as feel so nauseous and retching all the time.

 

Husband is v worried but knows not to take me to the hospital unless life threatening.

 

It is just like history repeating itself 2 years ago when WD first struck. Updosed then from 10mgs to 30mgs before fully aquainted with SA. I got very quick improvements and eventually managed to stabilise.

 

Think I am going to have to do another updose - but to what? My brain has got used to lower doses over the last year of tapering. We are thinking between 23 - 25 mgs.

 

I know there are no guarantees but can't go on like this.

 

Any advice please? I am desperate.

[Happy2Heal]

I would suggest that you hold on a bit longer, it's very early since you up-dosed- just 9 days

 

has anything gotten better during the past week or so, or do you think things are getting worse?

 

In my (limited) experience, going up higher may make things worse instead of better

 

is there any way you can hold on a bit longer?

[Flowers]

Hi Catnapt

 

I know it is soon after the small updose - it might be that it wasn't enough. I am getting worse daily. I feel more drugged but that is about it.

 

It is hard to function like this. I can't do anything for myself today - not even shower as my legs are buckling under me.

 

 

Flowers xxx

[Martina23]

Flowers,I also would not updose. Wait for Andy, maybe he will have some idea.

[Flowers]

Flowers,I also would not updose. Wait for Andy, maybe he will have some idea.

Thanks Martina for your thoughts. I will wait for a mod to get back to me before I do anything rash.

 

Flowers xxx

[Happy2Heal]

Hi Catnapt

 

I know it is soon after the small updose - it might be that it wasn't enough. I am getting worse daily. I feel more drugged but that is about it.

 

It is hard to function like this. I can't do anything for myself today - not even shower as my legs are buckling under me.

 

 

Flowers xxx

 

oh I know, this is so hard.

 

3 days in you posted this: "Have taken the updose for the last 3 nights. I am not sure and don't want to tempt fate but think that the palpitations are a little better. I have been waking several times during the night with palps but last night managed to get a fairly good night."

 

so OK that was very early but you felt there might have been an improvement, even if it was a tiny one... maybe?

 

I am worried that updosing again so soon would only make you feel worse.  of course I don't know but that's my worry.

 

I have wanted to updose SO many times and have somehow managed to resist the urge to do so, and I'm glad for that. Because for me, at least, I have had mostly better days with just the usual waves that we are to expect.

 

I know everyone is different and I"m not suggesting that updosing was not the right thing for you, I'm just concerned that going up again may make things worse and not better.

 

hopefully someone more familiar with your situation can give you better input.

 

in the meantime, can you try to think of this as just a bad wave that will pass and soon you will be back to feeling a bit more stable?

 

we are here for you. thank you for stopping by my thread and for your kind words.

 

is there something you can do to distract yourself, maybe?

[Happy2Heal]

Hi Catnapt

 

I know it is soon after the small updose - it might be that it wasn't enough. I am getting worse daily. I feel more drugged but that is about it.

 

It is hard to function like this. I can't do anything for myself today - not even shower as my legs are buckling under me.

 

 

Flowers xxx

 I am sorry I did not notice this line about your legs buckling under you, is this a new symptom?

I'm just being overly cautious, but is there a chance you need to be checked by a dr to make sure there's nothing going on that is not related to withdrawal?

 

I know we can have some pretty severe symptoms but sometimes there can be something else going on. Not saying this to scare you, but I guess it's just not something I recall seeing listed as a potential symptom of withdrawal.

but then with withdrawal anything is possible, it seems.

 

you're going to be ok though, just try to hold on a bit longer. I am glad you are waiting for more input from the mods before you decide what to do.

 

sending good thoughts your way!

[Flowers]

 

Hi Catnapt

 

I know it is soon after the small updose - it might be that it wasn't enough. I am getting worse daily. I feel more drugged but that is about it.

 

It is hard to function like this. I can't do anything for myself today - not even shower as my legs are buckling under me.

 

 

Flowers xxx

 

oh I know, this is so hard.

 

3 days in you posted this: "Have taken the updose for the last 3 nights. I am not sure and don't want to tempt fate but think that the palpitations are a little better. I have been waking several times during the night with palps but last night managed to get a fairly good night."

 

so OK that was very early but you felt there might have been an improvement, even if it was a tiny one... maybe?

 

I am worried that updosing again so soon would only make you feel worse.  of course I don't know but that's my worry.

 

I have wanted to updose SO many times and have somehow managed to resist the urge to do so, and I'm glad for that. Because for me, at least, I have had mostly better days with just the usual waves that we are to expect.

 

I know everyone is different and I"m not suggesting that updosing was not the right thing for you, I'm just concerned that going up again may make things worse and not better.

 

hopefully someone more familiar with your situation can give you better input.

 

in the meantime, can you try to think of this as just a bad wave that will pass and soon you will be back to feeling a bit more stable?

 

we are here for you. thank you for stopping by my thread and for your kind words.

 

is there something you can do to distract yourself, maybe?

 

Catnapt thank you for being there. I know you have had some hard times too and I really admire anyone who can get through these without resorting to changing the dose.

 

I am very frightened by the fact that my legs won't work and that I will be like it forever. I suppose because I got a good result when I updosed before when first in WD it is only natural to want to go that way again.

 

I had forgotten I mentioned getting a better nights sleep too - maybe that is going along with the drugged feeling in the mornings. Maybe something is calming down.

 

I am trying to distract myself on the computer and this site - not sure if I should take a break though. Don't feel like watching TV or reading and can't move about!

 

What a state to get in!

 

Thank you for being so kind and supportive - it really helps.

 

Hugs from Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

When people start on antidepressants GPs say they will take a few weeks before they start working and  that in that time lapse you may well feel a lot worse before you feel better.  Perhaps this is the case with an updose.  I felt better quickly after my updoses but I went straight back to 20mg.

 

Perhaps if you can wait 4 weeks in total?  although that is probably too long for you to feel this level of distress. 

 

I am beginning to think this is the trickiest area of managing withdrawal and will be interested to read advice from others with more experience.  Flowers do you think you have concurrent flu or a winter virus, I think recently I couldn't differentiate between a flu virus and withdrawal.

 

Hope you can settle your mind to a strategy in the next few days.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

When people start on antidepressants GPs say they will take a few weeks before they start working and  that in that time lapse you may well feel a lot worse before you feel better.  Perhaps this is the case with an updose.  I felt better quickly after my updoses but I went straight back to 20mg.

 

Perhaps if you can wait 4 weeks in total?  although that is probably too long for you to feel this level of distress. 

 

I am beginning to think this is the trickiest area of managing withdrawal and will be interested to read advice from others with more experience.  Flowers do you think you have concurrent flu or a winter virus, I think recently I couldn't differentiate between a flu virus and withdrawal.

 

Hope you can settle your mind to a strategy in the next few days.

 

Joy

Joy - it's funny I was thinking the same - maybe we feel worse with an updose before we feel any benefit. I really hope so although I know you have had immediate improvement when you have updosed.

 

I don't think I want to put a time limit on how long I can stand this suffering - just taking it one day at a time is bad enough!

 

It is very tricky knowing what to do as everyone is so different. All I keep going back to is that I know it worked before when I did a massive updose when WD first hit.

 

I suppose I have to bear in mind that my CNS has changed since then and got used to lower levels of the drug.

 

You are right this is a very tricky area of managing a huge wave during tapering. I have had the odd wave but nothing on this scale.

 

I will feel better when I can accumulate some advice from the mods and make a decision of what to do for the best.

 

Thanks for being there Joy - you are a great support.

 

Flowers xxx

[Frogie]

Hi Flowers:

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It really is a horrible feeling.

 

I was stupid, in June 2016, I cut my Lexapro in 1/2. I'm just now to the point that I am not nauseous every morning.

 

I know you just up dosed a few days ago. Apparently, it didn't help.

 

But if I were you, I wouldn't mess with your dosage so early. But I'm not a mod or a dr. Just a friend.

 

Could it be maybe that some of your side effects you are experiencing could be some anxiety? Maybe take a nice hot bubble bath and relax.

 

Like I said I'm not a dr or mod. I would think a mod will come by soon and help you out.

 

Keep your chin up. It does get better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

If you updosed back to 30 mg now you will feel very defeated, I did when I went back to 20 mg, but I did it because I didn't want any of my clients to notice anything was wrong.  Then a few weeks later I felt the need to start all over again.

 

I started in Aug 2014 and have only managed to get from 30 to 19.9 mg, and when I look back I made many mistakes such as tapering too fast for me and updosing too much and too soon.  They were lost opportunities, but I did what I needed to do at the time and have survived, but not with the progress I had hoped for.

 

Lots of people hit these walls, my own GP said to me 'You might get down to 10 mg but probably no further', so I wonder is 10 mg downwards even harder than going down the higher doses.

 

The drug companies should be doing research into managing withdrawal but as it is to get people off drugs rather than on them, there is little financial incentive for them to do the research, in fact it is counter productive to their profits.  It would however morally 'clean up' the mess we are all in and show a sense of responsibility.

 

In the UK it is estimated that half of all SSRI prescriptions are to patients who are unable to withdraw - that is a lot of money

 

Joy

[Flowers]

 

Hi Catnapt

 

I know it is soon after the small updose - it might be that it wasn't enough. I am getting worse daily. I feel more drugged but that is about it.

 

It is hard to function like this. I can't do anything for myself today - not even shower as my legs are buckling under me.

 

 

Flowers xxx

 I am sorry I did not notice this line about your legs buckling under you, is this a new symptom?

I'm just being overly cautious, but is there a chance you need to be checked by a dr to make sure there's nothing going on that is not related to withdrawal?

 

I know we can have some pretty severe symptoms but sometimes there can be something else going on. Not saying this to scare you, but I guess it's just not something I recall seeing listed as a potential symptom of withdrawal.

but then with withdrawal anything is possible, it seems.

 

you're going to be ok though, just try to hold on a bit longer. I am glad you are waiting for more input from the mods before you decide what to do.

 

sending good thoughts your way!

 

The legs buckling under me I think is related to co-ordination as I find it hard to place my legs in the right place to walk. Something to do with my gait. I had this 2 years ago when first in WD. I updosed and it disappeared.

 

I was checked out at the time by a Dr and nothing untoward was found. Weird isn't it how the brain affects the whole body.

 

Take care.

 

Flowers xxx

[apace41]

Flowers,

 

I am truly sorry for your suffering. I wish there were some "magic bullet" I could offer that would fix this all for you (and for all of us). Unfortunately, that does not exist, nor is there a secret font of knowledge that I, or any other mod, can go to in order to divine the answers. At the end of the day, the choices are to hold where you are or to updose. The former feels like "doing nothing" so the urge to do the latter is overwhelming. However, there is no reason to believe that will produce a better result than holding (other than your past experience with a larger updose which, as we know, may or may not be predictive of your experience this time) and waiting for your body to stabilize).

 

If it were me I would try to hold on because things can change at any time. But it's not me and who knows what I would do if I felt the level of distress you are feeling now? I agree with the thought that the physical sensations are being driven by fear and anxiety. Steps to control that, including chamomile tea and lavender might be useful.

 

I wish I could offer more other than my sympathy and hope for a quick return to baseline.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

Hi Flowers:

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It really is a horrible feeling.

 

I was stupid, in June 2016, I cut my Lexapro in 1/2. I'm just now to the point that I am not nauseous every morning.

 

I know you just up dosed a few days ago. Apparently, it didn't help.

 

But if I were you, I wouldn't mess with your dosage so early. But I'm not a mod or a dr. Just a friend.

 

Could it be maybe that some of your side effects you are experiencing could be some anxiety? Maybe take a nice hot bubble bath and relax.

 

Like I said I'm not a dr or mod. I would think a mod will come by soon and help you out.

 

Keep your chin up. It does get better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

Thanks Frogie! you have been through it too I know.

 

You are right about the anxiety. I am doing progressive muscle relaxation, mindfulness and listening to soothing music. I don't have a bath in this house - just showers but I am using magnesium spray oil on my body.

 

I am grateful for your support and friendship.

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

If you updosed back to 30 mg now you will feel very defeated, I did when I went back to 20 mg, but I did it because I didn't want any of my clients to notice anything was wrong.  Then a few weeks later I felt the need to start all over again.

 

I started in Aug 2014 and have only managed to get from 30 to 19.9 mg, and when I look back I made many mistakes such as tapering too fast for me and updosing too much and too soon.  They were lost opportunities, but I did what I needed to do at the time and have survived, but not with the progress I had hoped for.

 

Lots of people hit these walls, my own GP said to me 'You might get down to 10 mg but probably no further', so I wonder is 10 mg downwards even harder than going down the higher doses.

 

The drug companies should be doing research into managing withdrawal but as it is to get people off drugs rather than on them, there is little financial incentive for them to do the research, in fact it is counter productive to their profits.  It would however morally 'clean up' the mess we are all in and show a sense of responsibility.

 

In the UK it is estimated that half of all SSRI prescriptions are to patients who are unable to withdraw - that is a lot of money

 

Joy

I agree with everything you say Joy.

 

I am feeling a lot of hatred towards the Dr who told me to come off 40mg of Cit in 6 weeks after taking them for at least 13 years. I just can't help it!

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Flowers,

 

I am truly sorry for your suffering. I wish there were some "magic bullet" I could offer that would fix this all for you (and for all of us). Unfortunately, that does not exist, nor is there a secret font of knowledge that I, or any other mod, can go to in order to divine the answers. At the end of the day, the choices are to hold where you are or to updose. The former feels like "doing nothing" so the urge to do the latter is overwhelming. However, there is no reason to believe that will produce a better result than holding (other than your past experience with a larger updose which, as we know, may or may not be predictive of your experience this time) and waiting for your body to stabilize).

 

If it were me I would try to hold on because things can change at any time. But it's not me and who knows what I would do if I felt the level of distress you are feeling now? I agree with the thought that the physical sensations are being driven by fear and anxiety. Steps to control that, including chamomile tea and lavender might be useful.

 

I wish I could offer more other than my sympathy and hope for a quick return to baseline.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Thanks Andy - I appreciate your thoughts and concern.

 

I know if I were advising others on here it would be to hold on a bit longer! I am just so scared not being able to use my legs properly. I am doing PMR and mindfulness which has helped get me through smaller waves.

 

It is going to take a lot more courage to just hold and do nothing than to updose. I hope I have got it in me.

 

Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

I have had to go through withdrawal from various drugs in psychiatric units twice in my life - that is really difficult.  You need to use all your home comforts for support, and at least you are in control of the pills.  When I did it in hospital (different drugs) the doctors controlled everything.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

I have had to go through withdrawal from various drugs in psychiatric units twice in my life - that is really difficult.  You need to use all your home comforts for support, and at least you are in control of the pills.  When I did it in hospital (different drugs) the doctors controlled everything.

 

Joy

Joy you have done so well coming off your drugs. I would hate to be in a hospital situation going through what I am now.

 

I avoid Dr's like the plague! I will not be going down that route unless I lose all of my faculties.

 

Flowers xxx

[Dan998]

I don't know what to suggest with regards to holding or updosing. It could well be that you are suffering from a virus. I remember you saying recently that you thought you had shingles. Maybe you don't have shingles, but you could have something else. We are all too quick to blame everything on drug withdrawal. Anything that stresses our bodies can produce a response that is very similar to withdrawal. 

 

I hope you recover soon. My thoughts are with you, Flowers.

[Happy2Heal]

thinking of you and hoping you're feeling better today, Flowers

[direstraits]

me,too...

 

((((((Flowers))))))

[Flowers]

I don't know what to suggest with regards to holding or updosing. It could well be that you are suffering from a virus. I remember you saying recently that you thought you had shingles. Maybe you don't have shingles, but you could have something else. We are all too quick to blame everything on drug withdrawal. Anything that stresses our bodies can produce a response that is very similar to withdrawal. 

 

I hope you recover soon. My thoughts are with you, Flowers.

Thanks Dan - it's always lovely to hear from you.

 

I had a lot of blood tests done and am getting the results on Thursday so that should show up anything else that is going on.

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

thinking of you and hoping you're feeling better today, Flowers

Thanks Catnapt - still the same unfortunately!

 

Hope you are OK today?

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

me,too...

 

((((((Flowers))))))

Thanks DS - your stopping by means a lot.

 

Hope things are not too bad for you too.

 

Love from Flowers xxx