Flowers: tapering citalopram

[AmyK]

I wish you a New bright Year full of healing, Flowers.

Love, Amy

[Flowers]

Thanks Lex - 

 

Hi flower,

I'm so sorry you are still feeling unwell from this unexpected hit! At times like this, we can only remind ourselves that it will pass while our brain is working hard (as reflected by the symptoms) to gain balance. So many times I thought it was the end of all and I would be living like that forever, then I turned around the corner. You will turn around that corner any day and hour unexpectedly!

I never tried vitamin C myself, and in fact, I stopped taking ALL meds and supplement EXCEPT for fish oil since last time I got a huge flare up from taking one pill of vitamin D and Again some protein products containing vitamin B. I would think you approach with tiny doses based on the recommendation others will provide. It's hard to believe but we all learned how fragile a sensitized CNS by these drugs can be.

Can you try to be an outside observer to what/symptoms you are experiencing? This is what my pDoc recommended the last Time I talked to him, the so called mindfulness. I haven't tried myself but feel it makes sense and can be helpful instead of trying hard to survive the symptoms.


Sending you big Hugs,
Lex

Thanks Lex  for visiting my thread which is greatly appreciated.

 

I will be careful with trying Vit C as I had a bit of a reaction to Mag and fish oil so don't take that anymore. I like your pDocs suggestion. I do practice mindfulness and progressive relaxation exercises which do help. 

 

It is just what you say though. When a wave hits we think we will be in it forever and I need reminding (so thank you for that!) that this will pass.

 

You have been a great inspiration to me and it's lovely to see how much improved you are. 

 

Thank you for the hugs Lex. Sending you lots too!

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

I wish you a New bright Year full of healing, Flowers.

Love, Amy

Thanks Amy!

 

Hugs from Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Today has been hard to get through. I awoke at 4am and didn't get much sleep after that. Symptoms of anxiety, depression ramping up. I don't seem to be able to settle and have been walking again. Feeling nauseous and shaky too. 

 

It's been nearly 3 weeks since this started and no sign of it going yet. I did my last cut 5 weeks ago. 

 

I am finding the anxiety really hard to control with my usual coping tools of mindfulness and progressive relaxation. I am wondering whether I would benefit from seeing a counselling psychotherapist. 

 

Does anyone have any experience of counselling psychotherapists? Would this be of any benefit? Just wondered if they may be able to provide some  other techniques?

[Junglechicken]

Hi Flowers,

 

Sorry to hear you're having a bad time of it.

 

Yes, I think seeing a counsellor would help you.  If you haven't explored what it is that got you into needing AD meds in the first place, then it is well worth the time and money seeing someone on a weekly basis.

 

My therapist said that that hour in the week was "my time".  Also, I picked her because she does "psychodynamic" counselling, which I think means that she can apply a range of techniques to help me get to where I need to be mentally.

 

I found mine through a website called "BACP":

British Association for Counselling & Psychotherapy

Hugs,

JC xxx

[direstraits]

sorry you're still suffering,Flowers....wondering if you could still be feeling the effects of the change in generics,don't know much about tapering,I've been off over 2 1/2 yrs. after too fast taper, but hope this resolves for you soon !

 

sending lots of hugs and healing thoughts to you.....love,ds

[Flowers]

Hi Flowers,

 

Sorry to hear you're having a bad time of it.

 

Yes, I think seeing a counsellor would help you.  If you haven't explored what it is that got you into needing AD meds in the first place, then it is well worth the time and money seeing someone on a weekly basis.

 

My therapist said that that hour in the week was "my time".  Also, I picked her because she does "psychodynamic" counselling, which I think means that she can apply a range of techniques to help me get to where I need to be mentally.

 

I found mine through a website called "BACP":

British Association for Counselling & Psychotherapy

Hugs,

JC xxx

Thanks JC. I appreciate your thoughts and advice.

 

 It was good old anxiety that led me into taking AD's. Thanks for the website although I will have to find someone nearby in Spain. 

 

I will make some investigations.

 

How are you doing?

 

Hugs back JC XXXX from Flowers

[Flowers]

sorry you're still suffering,Flowers....wondering if you could still be feeling the effects of the change in generics,don't know much about tapering,I've been off over 2 1/2 yrs. after too fast taper, but hope this resolves for you soon !

 

sending lots of hugs and healing thoughts to you.....love,ds

Thanks DS.  

 

I am thinking along the lines of the change in generic too.  It's probably going to take a while to settle!  Well, like you it's been 2 years since I reinstated after a too fast taper so we have to be patient but it gets hard sometimes doesn't it?

 

Thanks for the hugs and healing thoughts which I reciprocate.

 

Love Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

I have taken the plunge and made an appointment to see a counselling psychotherapist next Tuesday. She seems like a nice person who has lots of different ways to help cope with anxiety. The first consultation is to see if she can help me and if I want to work with her. She is well aware of WD and tapering.

 

Maybe she can help, maybe she can't but I won't know if I don't try.

 

Roll on Tuesday!

[direstraits]

I hope you find this helpful...wishing you all the best!

 

ds  xo

[apace41]

I have taken the plunge and made an appointment to see a counselling psychotherapist next Tuesday. She seems like a nice person who has lots of different ways to help cope with anxiety. The first consultation is to see if she can help me and if I want to work with her. She is well aware of WD and tapering.

 

Maybe she can help, maybe she can't but I won't know if I don't try.

 

Flowers,

 

Just the fact that you took the step of making the appointment and are following through in an effort to address the issue is huge.

 

Congratulations on doing so!

 

My best wishes for a good relationships -- having someone "impartial" to talk to can be very cathartic.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[AmyK]

Sending hugs, Flowers. This will pass. Good of you to find a psychotherapist.

Have you heard this, by Eckhart Tolle? It has helped me a lot during anxious times.

 

https://youtu.be/vwDxJbR51b4

 

Xxx Amy

[Junglechicken]

I have taken the plunge and made an appointment to see a counselling psychotherapist next Tuesday. She seems like a nice person who has lots of different ways to help cope with anxiety. The first consultation is to see if she can help me and if I want to work with her. She is well aware of WD and tapering.

 

Maybe she can help, maybe she can't but I won't know if I don't try.

 

Roll on Tuesday!

Onwards and upwards! Definitely something to look forward to.

 

Keep us posted Flowers :0)

 

JC xxx

[lillylou]

Sorry to hear youre feeling crummy, I hope that appointment works out for you! let us know how it goes

[AmyK]

Sorry, I thought it would only be the link. Not a big picture liket that...

[Flowers]

I really need some advice please as I am going downhill really fast and don't know what to do.

 

End of November I did my last taper.

 

At the same time I had been given another generic from my usual generic but had no symptoms other than a slight headache until December 18 when I woke up feeling like I did when WD first hit. This came on really suddenly and arrived with a heavy head cold I had.

 

I went to the chemist and managed to get my old generic and have been back on that ever since so 3 weeks now. I haven't done or changed anything else and my symptoms are getting worse almost at full blown WD now and my coping mechinisms (PMR, Mindfulness, Daily Walk) are not working. I am finding it hard to function and it is really scaring me. I haven't felt like this for a long time.

 

Could it be the change of generic that has done this?

I tapered by 10mgs last year from 30mgs to 20mgs doing a 5% cut each month or so and felt no symptoms at all really. Was this too fast and it has now caught up with me?

Should I be updosing or just try to wait this out?

 

CURRENT SYMPTOMS:

 

Waking several times a night and early in morning with palpitations, fear and dread.

Nausea, loss of appetite, stomach upsets.

Spaced out headache.

Anxiety ++++++

Dizziness, unstable on feet, feeling of motion sickness

Feeling agitated with inner shaking

Muscle twitching, shaky hands

Visual problems

Low mood

Feeling wired but exhausted

Sweating but this is improving

 

This has really come as a shock as thought I was doing so well - any advice or thoughts would be very much appreciated. 

 

Thank you.

 

Flowers x

[AmyK]

My guess is that it is the other generic. You have been so patient with the 5 % tapering.
Try to just flow with it. It will change. Sometimes wd hits and you just dont know why it happened. At least for me. I reacted really bad to a 0.01 mg drop once last autumn. And I dont know why. It stabilized.

Just hang in there, and don't change the dose.
We are here for you.

Hugs!!!

[Flowers]

My guess is that it is the other generic. You have been so patient with the 5 % tapering.

Try to just flow with it. It will change. Sometimes wd hits and you just dont know why it happened. At least for me. I reacted to a 0.01 mg drop once last autumn. And I dont know why. It stabilized.

 

Just hang in there, and don't change the dose.

We are here for you.

 

Hugs!!!

Thank you Amy for your quick response. You have a lot of experience with slow taparing too so I respect your advice.

 

I am so glad you are here for me.

 

Hugs back Amy

 

xxxxx

[apace41]

Hi, Flowers,

 

Sorry you are having a bit of a struggle right now.  As you know from visiting my thread you are not alone -- I'm right there with you.

 

I can especially resonate with the spaced out headache and the dizziness, unstable on feet, feeling of motion sickness you mention above.  Low mood is a given when you are feeling the other things.

 

Like AmyK, I suspect it is very likely to be the change in generic that is the cause since you did not vary anything else.  I would not want to see you increase your dose for what is most likely going to be a short-term correction.  You said this hit you the 18th -- has it been steady like this ever since or are there ups and downs?  Have you seen any glimpses of your "withdrawal normal", i.e., where you were before this hit?

 

I do not think that you went too fast and had it "hit you all of a sudden."  That is pretty rare and usually occurs after a significant drop or a c/t that seems okay only to prove to be a problem downstream.  There is no real reason that you should get hit by cumulative cuts that didn't cause a problem along the way for a full year.  I suppose it could happen because ANYTHING can happen in w/d, but I would be very surprised if that was at play here.  I suspect that it is a switch in the generics (which can, unfortunately, vary by as much as 20%) and that it won't be too long before you start to right the ship.

 

There could have been some other trigger that you weren't aware of in terms of food, scent, stress or otherwise that might be contributing as well.

 

Hang in there, Flowers.

 

We are all here for you.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

Hi, Flowers,

 

Sorry you are having a bit of a struggle right now.  As you know from visiting my thread you are not alone -- I'm right there with you.

 

I can especially resonate with the spaced out headache and the dizziness, unstable on feet, feeling of motion sickness you mention above.  Low mood is a given when you are feeling the other things.

 

Like AmyK, I suspect it is very likely to be the change in generic that is the cause since you did not vary anything else.  I would not want to see you increase your dose for what is most likely going to be a short-term correction.  You said this hit you the 18th -- has it been steady like this ever since or are there ups and downs?  Have you seen any glimpses of your "withdrawal normal", i.e., where you were before this hit?

 

I do not think that you went too fast and had it "hit you all of a sudden."  That is pretty rare and usually occurs after a significant drop or a c/t that seems okay only to prove to be a problem downstream.  There is no real reason that you should get hit by cumulative cuts that didn't cause a problem along the way for a full year.  I suppose it could happen because ANYTHING can happen in w/d, but I would be very surprised if that was at play here.  I suspect that it is a switch in the generics (which can, unfortunately, vary by as much as 20%) and that it won't be too long before you start to right the ship.

 

There could have been some other trigger that you weren't aware of in terms of food, scent, stress or otherwise that might be contributing as well.

 

Hang in there, Flowers.

 

We are all here for you.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Andy - thank you also for your quick reply, understanding and good advice as always.

 

Since this kicked off on the 18 Dec I have tried to carry on with life the best I could. Hubby has been taking me out each day for distraction  and I have been walking and walking but perhaps I should have rested up a bit more. I don't know. 

 

I feel the symptoms are getting worse but it is the anxiety that is the most bothersome.I can't sit still! It's probably because I am getting anxious about the wave and I just need to accept it. I have been lucky and it's the first bad one I have had since tapering. I don't feel I have seen a withdrawal normal for me yet but am hoping.

 

I am always stressed by something and have got  through it during tapering so don't think there has been a trigger. I have always had travel anxiety but managed to travel a few times last year (some on my own) with no anxiety. Looking to the future, I am going to a counsellor psychologist tomorrow to see if she can help me address this. .

 

I did have some hot rum toddies for the cold and don't normally drink. 

 

I knew nothing about generics being so different and if that can be by 20% that would do it.

 

Thank you Andy for being there for me on this long rocky road!

 

Flowers xxx

[Happy2Heal]

Flowers, I'd guess it would be the rum!
it's best to avoid all alcohol in WD, you just never know what it might do

 

I hope that wave ends really soon!!

[apace41]

Flowers, I'd guess it would be the rum!

it's best to avoid all alcohol in WD, you just never know what it might do 

 

This is a fair point, catnapt.  Could be that and/or the generic.  Either way, this will pass Flowers.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

Thanks Catnapt and Andy

 

I will probably never know! Thanks for your good wishes.

 

Flowers xxx

[nick1990]

Hey flowers! Sorry your feeling poorly.. from what ive seen on here im sure it was either the generic change or the rum, maybe both. Your taper has been slow and you've been doing so well - I would expect that to return soon. Self soothing is key here - very deep breaths, calming tea, massages, sunshine, fresh vege juicing and magnesium. You'll be back to yourself soon.

Sending huge hugs, you've been such a great support to me and im doing relatively well.

You'll be fine xx

[Dan998]

Hang in there, Flowers.

 

I doubt it is a cumulative effect as you've been going nice and slow. It probably is the switch to a different brand, have seen a lot of people on here get floored by switching. This will settle down soon and you'll be back on schedule again. 

[lillylou]

Ahh bad wave im not an expert but id have to agree with others saying its probably the generic switch. I remember one time i switched to generic lexapro and it just felt different. Hang in there and be gentle with yourself.

 

I was looking at your symptoms and I get so sweaty too, and its the middle of winter... can only imagine ill be a walking onion come spring if this persists

[LexAnger]

Hi Flower, I'm very sorry this generic brand hits you so badly!

 

My wild guess:

Assuming nothing else caused this ( including those you are unwarned of, lupine pain killer or other over the counter meds)

 

1. I agree with everyone that it shouldn't be the cumulative tapering effect

2. You had WD symptoms right after taking the wrong generic, which may indicate a lower potence of it as compared to the original generic, so you were taking lower doses in terms of the original generic

3. The symptoms you started experiencing AFTER switching back to the original generic, lots of them are the ones I had from drug reaction caused by a dose incraese, so it is possible what you are experiencing now is, at least partially from the dose increase effects from the switching back to the more potent brand.

 

If all sounds not too crazy, my guess, you can try a tiny dose drop to test the water. It's almost time for your scheduled cut anyway, giving the relative higher dose you are at, and how well you have handled the previous cuts, I doubt another cut will trigger too much WD even my guess is incorrect.

 

It's a bold guess with risks as we all know so well, but want to share with you in case you feel it makes some sense.

Lex

[Flowers]

My guess is that it is the other generic. You have been so patient with the 5 % tapering.

Try to just flow with it. It will change. Sometimes wd hits and you just dont know why it happened. At least for me. I reacted really bad to a 0.01 mg drop once last autumn. And I dont know why. It stabilized.

 

Just hang in there, and don't change the dose.

We are here for you.

 

Hugs!!!

Thanks Amy! It has been hard to accept what has happened to me especially after doing so well last year. 

 

I am now trying a different tactic instead of fighting it I am trying to go with it as you advised. Haven't seen any improvements yet but am hoping.

 

Hugs 

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Hey flowers! Sorry your feeling poorly.. from what ive seen on here im sure it was either the generic change or the rum, maybe both. Your taper has been slow and you've been doing so well - I would expect that to return soon. Self soothing is key here - very deep breaths, calming tea, massages, sunshine, fresh vege juicing and magnesium. You'll be back to yourself soon.

Sending huge hugs, you've been such a great support to me and im doing relatively well.

You'll be fine xx

Nick thank you for your words of encouragement.  I am glad you are doing well and please don't let this put you off! 

 

Lots of hugs back  to you.

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Hang in there, Flowers.

 

I doubt it is a cumulative effect as you've been going nice and slow. It probably is the switch to a different brand, have seen a lot of people on here get floored by switching. This will settle down soon and you'll be back on schedule again. 

Dan, thank you for your visit and encouragement. 

 

I am really hoping this is just a little blip!

 

xxxx Flowers

[Flowers]

Ahh bad wave im not an expert but id have to agree with others saying its probably the generic switch. I remember one time i switched to generic lexapro and it just felt different. Hang in there and be gentle with yourself.

 

I was looking at your symptoms and I get so sweaty too, and its the middle of winter... can only imagine ill be a walking onion come spring if this persists

Thanks lillylou!

 

It's lovely to hear from you.

 

Flowers xxx

[Flowers]

Hi Flower, I'm very sorry this generic brand hits you so badly!

 

My wild guess:

Assuming nothing else caused this ( including those you are unwarned of, lupine pain killer or other over the counter meds)

 

1. I agree with everyone that it shouldn't be the cumulative tapering effect

2. You had WD symptoms right after taking the wrong generic, which may indicate a lower potence of it as compared to the original generic, so you were taking lower doses in terms of the original generic

3. The symptoms you started experiencing AFTER switching back to the original generic, lots of them are the ones I had from drug reaction caused by a dose incraese, so it is possible what you are experiencing now is, at least partially from the dose increase effects from the switching back to the more potent brand.

 

If all sounds not too crazy, my guess, you can try a tiny dose drop to test the water. It's almost time for your scheduled cut anyway, giving the relative higher dose you are at, and how well you have handled the previous cuts, I doubt another cut will trigger too much WD even my guess is incorrect.

 

It's a bold guess with risks as we all know so well, but want to share with you in case you feel it makes some sense.

Lex

Lex thanks for taking the trouble to work out what the problem may be. It's very much appreciated as I am not thinking straight at the moment!

 

I understand completely what you are saying.

 

These symptoms are the same as I had when I did my first too fast taper and ended up in WD. 

 

What if the wrong generic gave me an increase in dose as opposed to the usual one that I am now back on? That would mean I possibly could be reducing too much if I do another cut as you suggest.

 

I am so scared to do anything at the moment in case I feel worse!  

 

xxxxx Flowers 

[Flowers]

Update:

 

Thank you to everybody who has come to my rescue and offered support and advice over the last awful few days. Wish I could say there was some improvement but sadly not yet.

 

I have had differences of opinion as to whether I should stay at the same dose, increase the dose or drop a bit.

 

If it is the change of generic to blame I have no idea whether it was giving me an updose or a cut. I am so scared to do anything in case I feel worse. 

 

I was trying to fight my way through this but have now admitted defeat and am giving into the symptoms. I feel this is the best way to deal with it. I was lucky enough to be able to function quite well during the taper over last year but I am not now. I just have to accept that I cannot go on as normal  and go back to basics. Take plenty of rest, gentle walks and be kind to myself avoiding any added stressors. This is about survival! Acceptance and patience!

 

I managed it before when WD first hit and I will manage it again. I might need help and encouragement from you guys though!

 

I have decided to stay where I am dose wise. Whether it is right or wrong hopefully I will stabilise eventually and see a window!

 

 Just as a postscript, I saw my therapist for the first time yesterday and it was just a session to meet each other and talk about me. It went well and  she is going to draw up a treatment plan for me and my next appointment is for next Tues. She was aware of problems people get in coming off AD's too fast. As my main symptom is always anxiety she is hopeful that she will be able to devise a strategy to help me cope with these symptoms now and as I continue to taper. I think I need to put some more coping techniques into practise so I will be able to get off these drugs one day.  She is very much for helping keep people drug free and respected my wishes not to take any more AD's ever.  So a good outcome so far.

 

Bye for now folks and thanks once again.

 

Flowers xxx

[Purplestars22]

Hey Flowers, I think it's a wise choice to stay at the same dose so your CNS can stabilize and not cause havoc. Since the symptoms are flaring now is the time for self care and not do too much. Take one thing at a time, and take it easy. I hope you learn a lot from your therapist on coping skills. I hope this setback dissipates soon and you go back to feeling better. Best wishes, ps22

[Flowers]

Hey Flowers, I think it's a wise choice to stay at the same dose so your CNS can stabilize and not cause havoc. Since the symptoms are flaring now is the time for self care and not do too much. Take one thing at a time, and take it easy. I hope you learn a lot from your therapist on coping skills. I hope this setback dissipates soon and you go back to feeling better. Best wishes, ps22

Hello ps22

 

Thanks for your visit and advice.

 

I think I have exhausted myself just trying to get through the last couple of weeks so have no option now than to take it easy and look after myself. 

 

How are things with you?

 

xxxxx

[AmyK]

Flowers, I am so sorry it's so tough for you right now. If there is something I have learned thru these years is that it ALWAYS turns to the better. It will change.

In the meantime take care of your self and be kind to your self. Use all the tools you have to self soothe. Sleep, slow walks, rest, good food, meditations, films...

 

Many hugs,

Amy