☼ AliG: Surviving

[Martina23]

I would also like to go to Timbuktoo, just checked it on the map, seems like pretty country and warm ...

[reachingforthestars]

AliG, Have you tried melatonin before going to bed? When i had my very first night of insomnia i got this sharp pain in the back of my eyes and ever since every time i wake up i have the same pain there and it goes away in the morning within one hour. I read that human have a lot of melatonin receptors in their eyes and that melatonin and serotonin are pretty similar.

 

This is from wikipedia: Melatonin biosynthesis in humans and some other organisms involves four enzymatic steps from the essential dietary amino acid tryptophan, which follows a serotonin pathway. 

 

Wearing glasses that block blue light in the hours before bedtime may decrease melatonin loss. Use of blue-blocking goggles the last hours before bedtime has also been advised for people who need to adjust to an earlier bedtime, as melatonin promotes sleepiness.^[27]

 

 

^{I wish you heal from insomnia very soon!!!}

[manymoretodays]

I would also like to go to Timbuktoo, just checked it on the map, seems like pretty country and warm ...

 

A real country??  Seaside or inland?  I .......could.........look it up.  The more I attempt to stay offline the more I am drawn back to it.  Chop chop.......laundry, outgoing mail, and possibly........a nap........this exhaustion kicks in a few hours post lunch.......unless I am out and about.  Did oogles of errands this am though.

 

I love your quote as well......rain AND snow here now.  Not so cold with the exception of the windchill factor kicking on up every now and again.

 

Sleep Ali.....sleep!

[JanCarol]

LOL I thought Timbuktu was in the Himalayans - so when Martina said "warm" I had to look.  Mali, in Africa.  Okay then.  Learn something new everyday.

 

Just checking in, how you going, Ali?

 

We put in a garden bed just before the rains, and now I'm eagerly watching it for changes, growth.  We have one lone bloom right now (an orange Gerbera).  Oh, and I've been fighting the battle to keep the crows from our possums.  My American rellies sent me some killer "pump action water guns" that shoot into the tops of the trees.  I put a little vinegar in to make them extra tasty.  I feel like a soldier going out with my pump action rifle to "shoot" (water) at crows and chase them down the street.  But we've lost so many possums to them, I don't want that to happen again.  We did put in the boxes, and I hope they are crow-proof, but I really don't want to find out that they are not......

 

Thai food was my favorite in the world, and that was before I went to Thailand!  Now we go to Thai restaurants just to remember how lovely it was!  Did you send up a Buddha balloon?  

[AliG]

 Hi all,

 

I'm struggling, still. I thought I had depression/ anxiety back  again, but after doing some reading on here, I think it is more directly linked with motivation ( or the lack thereof ) !! Although I know what I should be doing , in terms of self - care, I just can't seem to carry through, at the moment.  I just feel apathetic, demotivated  and  I'm " isolating " again to a quite a large extent. My friends think I'm still on my holiday ! LOL . This is probably tied in with the depression , of course but there is a subtle divide between the two and right now, that lack of motivation is the major factor. I'm finding  that I can't think my way out of it, and it's, "doing my head in".I'm trying to get through it by distracting myself, but the only thing I have any desire to do is to spend hours on the computer. Before anyone tells me that's not good for me , I already know. That's the problem !

 

The interesting thing is, it's coincided with a lot of physical symptoms. Some I still had, but others that I thought were pretty much gone, have returned. Dizziness, weakness, heart palpitations, cortisol spikes and agoraphobia ( slight ) are back. Fatigue and insomnia, are still my constant companions ! 

 

However, I will keep pushing through, knowing this is just another wave.  One last thing. - I'm encouraged to read Nadia's success story. She had a lot of the same symptoms as I and a lot of others do and is now thriving. So good to hear. I'm glad she came back to write her story. It was brief, so for anyone interested, I got a lot out of going back and reading her thread.  ( Nadia : There is hope. )

 

For anyone else here, suffering from this as well, here is the link :

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1203-disconnect-between-interest-and-actionmotivation/page-2

 

 

Thank you Reachingforthestars, Manymoretodays  and JanCarol.   Your support means a lot to me. I also want to thank Andy and Freespirit , for their lively discussion  on the  pros & cons of therapy. ( A few posts back .)  

[AliG]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1203-disconnect-between-interest-and-actionmotivation/ 

 

Page 1.

[AliG]

 Sorry about the links, guys. I didn't realize I posted page 2.  

 

I have been reading Nadia's thread and wanted to share this. It spoke to me, as did a lot of what she said, and wrote.

 

I knew what it was like to be afraid and nervous before taking ADs, but at normal levels. Maybe if I had a stressful event coming up I would have trouble falling asleep, for example, but then it would go away. Now it's like if it gets turned on it takes forever to turn off. The anxiety in turn affects my mood. I have always had a tendency toward pessimism and depression, and the mixture of depression and anxiety is really awful. Add not getting enough sleep, and it's a recipe for disaster! So I am conscious that in addition to withdrawal I have my regular issues to deal with, along with normal life stress and challenges. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what is what, but the good news is I think there are things that invariably will help with ALL of it. Like walking, meditating (which I am very awful at, I might add... the important thing is trying), eating well, taking time to rest, confronting your issues, etc. In the end I feel like I tried to take a "shortcut" to being happy by taking antidepressants, and it backfired. If I had started walking, meditating, etc. back then INSTEAD of taking ADs, I'd probably be in much better shape now (I did do exercise and therapy at first, but with time I got lazy). I tend to be pretty lazy about self-improvement in general, or about anything that requires real effort and doesn't have immediate results. I was naturally good at certain things as a kid, and it was easy to just stick to those. Also, there is a huge difference between knowing something intellectually and really living it. I was really always interested in meditation, in letting go, in acceptance, etc.... but I had never progressed much beyond an intellectual understanding of this. I would try to meditate and my mind would wander and I didn't stick with it. This is the first time I try over and over. Success is slow but I make progress. I lose hope a lot, too. But the pain of suffering and wanting to get well and not having an easy solution in a pill for that anymore keeps me coming back to do well. At first I concentrated a lot on supplements, on outside solutions (well, this is periodic... I get impatient sometimes and want another easy solution). Now I think I have to just be patient, but also do everything in my power to help my brain heal. I read stories of other people's successes in overcoming challenges to help inspire me. Then I think I personally don't have what it takes to do it. That "where there is a will, there's a way", but that I lack the will. Then I realize I have to fight for the will, too. It can seem counterintuitive... how do you muster will when you have none? Sometimes my only motivation is avoiding pain. But I also have become convinced that I can try to fake will until I actually get it... this is how I worked myself out of my last bad patch!!). I don't have to feel like doing something to do it... this involves the ability to separate yourself from what you are feeling and thinking... it's weird, but it's possible. Our brain is a complicated place... going through all of this I've realized there are many "mes" inside of me. The anxious, depressed me is often in control, but if I can get the other mes to show up more and more often, then they will eventually take control. I think of the two weeks when I was great in July... MY brain was capable of that. MY brain and body were capable of sleeping 10 hours straight, of laughing and feeling happy, of being inspired and feeling creative and wanting to live... not just for minutes at a time, but days. If I could reach that then, it is possible for me. And reading stories like the one you sent me are really encouraging! So, thank you... '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.

 

It took her a while , but she has written her success story.  This inspired me today.  

[dreamspirit]

I know what you mean about being on the computer all day.. I do that too.

I also get the agoraphobia thing and not having to deal with people.

I'm just trying to stay away from as much stress as possible.

 

I'm glad to hear you are still chugging along but not about all the symptoms..

[MollyN]

Hi AliGindahouse (had to write that since every time I read your journal title it makes me smile xxx Thanks so much for helping me with my NA questions, I really appreciate your thoughts and they've helped me be brave and realise that shame is just my thoughts, not other people's thoughts xxxx

[manymoretodays]

Hi Ali.  Just stopping over.  That was nice of you to say I could visit when I get to Australia.  Maybe I will in a couple of years.  The fall sounds nice there.

 

Hope you are sleeping and less depressed.  I am being busy but not getting tons done.........slow like a turtle, and the days are short.

 

Job anxiety........I better just call tomorrow and find out if I made the cut I think.  I'm not sure what I want........or need..........I think I might be okay either way.  Mostly anxiety off and on and then some tear bursts.......none today though.

 

Nighty night from stateside USA.  Beauty sleep you know..........

 

Love.

[Flowers]

Ali Hi!

 

Thanks for stopping by my thread - it really cheered me up to hear from you!

 

I think it is my usual thing about getting anxious about our road trip next week - I always get like this before leaving the safety of my home. So annoying though. I just hope I can enjoy it once we get there - I usually do!

 

How are things with you? Are you getting any sleep? I suppose summer is approaching for you now. Does it get unbearably hot where you live?

 

Hugs

 

Flowers xxxx

[JanCarol]

Hey Ali - hope you are feeling better.  You said:

I'm finding  that I can't think my way out of it

 

In Marc Williams'  "The Mindful Way through Depression" he calls this ruminating.  And it is the very source of depression.

 

It's the way a survival instinct - thinking our way out of it - gets us into trouble.

 

Normally, The Bear Is Between You and Camp, and you need to think of a solution.  Or there is a roadblock, and you need to think your way around.  It is what your brain does.  When the problem is solved, it stops.

 

BUT - the brain can get caught on things that it cannot solve.  "Why did I say that?" or "Is something wrong with me?" or (insert your favorite rumination here).  Because there is no solution - the mind keeps ruminating.

 

WIthout teaching a class in mindfulness - mindfulness - is the way through this.  Dalsaan wrote about AAF:

 

One very effective technique to use is referred to as AAF. Acknowledge, Accept, Float. 

 

First the situation/symptoms need to be Acknowledged.  Through no fault of your own you are now very sick and there are going to be a lot of very unpleasant symptoms to deal with, and like any major illness getting better will now be your primary focus.  Mentally explore the situation, feelings or lack there of, symptoms etc. and get to know them.

 

Secondly you have to truly accept that is happening.  The symptoms and feeling or lack there of are going to happen no matter what you say about it, there is nothing you can do about them or the situation.

 

Lastly, let the symptoms and unpleasantness float off as you go on about your life as best as you can, believing that it will get better in time.

 I'm working on a similar acronym called "RAIN" - Recognition - Awareness - Investigation - Non-Identification.  Similar process (Jonathan Foust " Body Centered Inquiry."

 

But Dalsaan's is simpler.

 

ANYhow, I just stopped by to tell you I had a dream about you!

 

You and I and your hubby - he had arranged for us a beautiful beach bungalow in an exotic location.  Mostly the dream was you and me and this house.  It was right on the beach, but surrounded by palms,  It was a 2 story wooden tropical styled house, but instead of being on stumps like a "Queenslander," it had a cellar, like an American "walk-out basement" 

 

Except that this basement was carved into the hill - the bedrock that the house was built upon.  It was open to the beach, but private - and in the rock was carved the most awesome, magical stone hot tub.  If you thought, "exfoliant," and rubbed your fingers in a crevice, it would produce beautiful coffee exfoliant.  If you thought "coconut oil" or "clay mask" or "shampoo" and touched the right place in the rock, you could get whatever spa treatment you wanted.

 

I can still see this beautiful, rough rock - but oh-so-inviting hot tub!

 

BUT - there was a problem.  We kept getting interrupted.  The beach was full of teenagers, and they kept coming in and asking for stuff or telling us stuff, or just interrupting with their teenage style dramas!  We never did make it into that hot tub before I woke up.

 

I thought you would find this dream as fun as I did.

 

Hope you are feeling better.  What is your "list of things to do" for when you don't feel like doing anything?  Hot pink boot gardening?  Phone-a-friend? Cook a meal?  What does a day look like for you?

[AliG]

 Hi All ,

 

Just something that I thought was interesting. http://www.recoverystories.info/climbing-out-of-addiction-and-depression-margo-talbot-at-tedxcanmore/

 

Also, http://www.recoverystories.info/a-horrifying-journey-through-the-medical-system-by-elizabeth-kenny/

 

Thanks DreamS, MollyN, ManyMT, Flowers and J.C. ( nice dream ! )   

 

Don't ask what a day looks like. It can be a very dark place!  Doing it tough " in the trenches ", a day ( depressed) looks like a black screen with nothing on it .Feeling like each second is an eternity ,with no escape and no end in sight. . Being in a " black hole/ tunnel " where there is nothing, but pain. Minute by minute. Second by second. Hanging on by a thread . If I could do all those " happy" little things at the moment , there wouldn't be a problem .When you get to this dark place it is a  "whole different story ". I'm sure those who have been through it know what I mean. Those who have & know what I'm talking about, I hope you reply. It would be interesting to know how you feel , and how you get through !  Day by day .

 

Having said all that, I know I'm strong and will get through all this . I'm not being negative , just realistic !  I know it will change and I will continue to have windows & waves, and all sorts of other " experiences",  both positive & negative. I'm fully aware of the changing nature of this withdrawal  " beast ". I do get very angry ,bitter and cynical. I'm not all " Pollyanna" , about this but I have to practice " acceptance " . There is no other way.  

 

Ali

[luv2knit]

(((Ali))) Hang in there!!

[AliG]

Thanks Luv,

 

 If you can, I can !  You are the epitome of patience. You handle all of this with grace. I saw what you go through on Blue's thread and I think you are awesome !

[direstraits]

sorry you're having such a rough time right now...wish I could help somehow...just know this will pass  and better days are ahead...sending love & hugs.

[AliG]

 Thanks D.S .

 

You did just help !      Thank you.

 

Hugs to you.

[Hibari]

Hi Ali,

 

I totally get those days and how they feel.   I truly believe you will get through.  I feel that way because you have this spirit inside you that comes through even when you are depressed. 

 

Thank you for posting the videos, I found them compelling.

 

Hibari

[chia1214]

Hi Ali - Thanks for visiting my thread, I replied over there, but wanted to greet you in your yard too! I read your most recent posts. You express your experiences very well. I've chosen to back way off being online and on here, but I appreciate reading posts like yours. I really can relate, you are not alone! I'm not Pollyanna about my journey either, I've hit the angry/irritable platform lately and found myself thinking, "I got our of my dark pit to arrive here??" Sound cynical? lol   Sending ((((((((((((((( hugs )))))))))))))))   -- Chia

[Wildflower0214]

I'm sorry to hear you have had such a hard time just recently. I totally get feeling bitter and cynical. I understand those feelings all too well.

 

You are right, you are strong. You are enduring, and you will continue to until it's over.

 

You can do this, you are doing it. And, I'm proud of you.

[manymoretodays]

Yup, me too.  Proud of you!  I'm in deep today.  I am pretty sure I had moments though the last couple of days.......good moments.  Even some positive Christmas cheer.  It'll be back.  Hanging in. 

[Petunia]

Hi Ali,

Thanks for writing on my thread, I wanted to reply here on your thread though, you wrote:

 

Hi Petunia,

 

You do have a way with words.  This rang true for me.  Quote :

 

" Now, in withdrawal I've experienced what probably gets called clinical depression. It feels deeper and darker than anything a person should naturally experience. Its like an inhuman void where I feel completely cut off from any source of goodness, light or love. I feel totally isolated from anything warm, comforting or safe. Completely disconnected from life. Thankfully, it doesn't last long, not more than a few hours at most, but I can imagine that if someone had to live in this state for an extended period of time, it would be unbearable. What makes me furious is that it has to have been the drugs which made my brain unbalanced enough to be experiencing this. Maybe I can't blame them for the anxiety, because I had some of that to start with, but there's no doubt this 'depression' is iatrogenic, it seems to come towards the end of bad waves, part of a cycle of physical hyper-arousal fear symptoms, followed by an energy/chemical crash. I don't know what's actually going on in my brain, but that's what it feels like."

 

I was so surprised when you said  quote :     " Thankfully it doesn't last long , not more than a few hours at most, but I "can imagine that if someone had to live in this state for an extended period of time , it would be intolerable ."    End quote.                    

 

I have been living like this for more years than I can remember.  A few hours ? That would be heaven .

 

Ali

 

I'm so sorry you have been feeling like this for so long, I can't imagine. I think you must have an incredible inner strength and a strong spirit. In some ways, I'm glad I've experienced it, so I'm able to really understand what people with this kind of depression actually feel like, its not something you can imagine as being possible from any 'normal' perspective.

 

I wish I had something to suggest, but the only way I've been able to overcome my short periods of feeling like this is to allow myself to feel deeply into the experience, acceptance of whatever comes up, trying to face it head on and it passes, eventually. But if depression was one of your original issues, then you probably have more to deal with than I do.

 

Once you recover from withdrawal, perhaps some counseling would help you work through any remaining issues causing your depression.

 

Thank you for being so helpful here on the site.

 

Hugs

Petunia.

 

 

[AliG]

  Thanks all.   

 

"  Life isn't about waiting for the storm  to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain . "

 

Thank you , Petu, but this is " chemical ".  It's out of my hands.   Much patience needed.  I'm trying .     Thank you. What I mean is, that this has been brought on by A/D drugs. Iatrogenic. I didn't have this before. 

[JanCarol]

I've been working on this one, see if it helps you, too:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3533-acceptance/

[Petunia]

Thank you , Petu, but this is " chemical ".  It's out of my hands.   Much patience needed.  I'm trying .     Thank you. What I mean is, that this has been brought on by A/D drugs. Iatrogenic. I didn't have this before. 

 

I'm sorry Ali, I must have misunderstood, I thought you meant you started on ADs for depression, they didn't help and now you are off them, you are in withdrawal also.

 

What you are saying makes sense to me because my first experience with 'chemical' depression started a few weeks after I started taking zoloft, but I never made the connection, who would even consider that an anti-depressant would cause depression.

[Sertramean]

Hi AliG, just checking in to say thanks for popping on to my thread a while ago. I've ordered the book you mentioned, i just hope it doesn't fill me with fear! I don't come on here too much because i find it a bit overwhelming with all the suffering. They say 'misery loves company' but at the moment misery just wants to sit on his own in the dark!

 

Anyway, wishing you all the best and i hope you can find some peace of mind and a shedload of happiness... and of course a Merry Christmas!

[Purplestars22]

AliG, sorry to hear that it has been rough lately. I hope you are able to find distractions and hope the ill feelings dissipate soon. You are a great person that is so helpful in this community. My best wishes to you, ps22

[manymoretodays]

Miss you.  I feel like I am on a different planet lately.  How is your side of the Earth holding up?  I am slightly better than a heap of neuro- irregularities all misfiring at the same time.

 

Snow and cold......really brisk.  This wasn't how I was expecting to feel about it.  And then all my emotions are amplified again.

 

Anyway.......miss you.  Sheesh, I miss me............I miss everything I was getting comfortable with.  I'm not very comfortable at all.

 

I will remain chill........calm, breathe, another hour, another day...........

 

I hope I can come up with something on the funnier side soon.  It is how I survive.

[direstraits]

Hi  Ali,

 

thinking of you, hope you're coping OK...xoxo

[Hopefull]

Hi AliG,

Cheering you on. Thank you for cheering me on.

Best wishes, Hopefull.

[JanCarol]

Ali - happy new year!

 

I hope you have survived the silly season intact and ready to take on "what's next!"

 

Thinking of you....

[Flowers]

Hi Ali

 

Best wishes for a New Year that brings you improvement and peace.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[Martina23]

My dear Ali, everything well for the new year, your friend Martina

[Fresh]

Happy new year Ali , 2016 is bound to be better than 2015 .

 

How are you doing as far as symptoms go at the moment?

I hope your break over christmas offered some relief. If the depression hasn't started to

crack yet , it will soon for sure.

 

Hang in there kiddo.

[AliG]

Hi All.

Happy New Year, everyone.   I hope for healing & happiness in 2016 for all here.    You guys are the best. Love & best wishes , for the New Year.

Thanks Fresh. I appreciate that, and the same to you. You have me back on my thread . I've been avoiding it. LOL. Symptoms ? No , I haven't cracked yet !  Waiting.   ??  Trying to be patient & accepting. Practicing Brassmonkey's  A.A.F/ meditation & other tools, for my little " toolbox" of healing. LOL.      

Thank you to all of you who have come by to offer encouragement & seasons greetings. JanCarol, Petunia, Sertramean, Purplestar,  ManyMoreTodays, DireStraits, Hopeful , Flowers, & Martina.  Also MollyN , Chia,  Dreamspirit, Luv2 Knit, Hibari  & Wildflower.   Thank you Alto & mods.

Love & Healing.  Namaste.

Ali

[Hibari]

Happy New Year Ali!

 

So glad to see you on your thread.    I am wishing you real healing in 2016 and that you start to find some relief over the next year.

 

H