☼ AliG: Surviving

[Martina23]

Ali, you are such a nice person. I like you very much.

[AliG]

Thanks Martina.You are such a good friend also. I'm so glad you're doing well!

[AliG]

It's five in the morning and I've been awake all night. I'm still struggling with insomnia and it is very persistent. I'm hoping for some improvement soon. It can't go on too much longer. I'm going to try Valerian and see if that helps.

[KLA324]

Sorry, Ali.   I know it will be a long day for you....

 

Karen

[AliG]

Thanks, Karen. It will be a low - functioning day. I'm just lucky I'm not working at the moment. I don't know how you could hold down a job under theses circumstances.

 

I hope you are doing a little better.

[Flowers]

Dear Ali

 

I am so sorry you are not sleeping and having depression thrown in too!

 

I was thrilled to read that you got away and had a good time. You should be so proud of your achievement and I am glad that it has given you the  confidence to do it again!

 

Your local river walk with the lights and Frangipani sounds idyllic. We grow different varieties of Frangipani in the garden. They are finished for this year but the summer fragrance was lovely. Wish I could bottle that smell!

 

Lots of hugs

 

xxxxxx

[Prestorb]

It will pass AliG, try to just let it be and eventually you will adjust. I know it's frustrating, but time is the great healer. Hang in there.... (((HUGS!))) 

[WinningThrough]

Hi Ali. I was glad to hear your trip went well. I'm sorry to hear about the insomnia. Take care x

[manymoretodays]

Can you sleep in the day a bit?  Probably difficult with all the summerish sunshine now........  Put up a tent?  Get out the lounger?

 

And yes, give it some time.........you just got home again.  Give the rest a rest if even for a couple of days only.  I have been graced with a bit of monastery living again, briefly........but wonderfully timely in it's occurrence.

[Martina23]

I love the idea of putting up the tent! I would also like but by us it is almost winter ....  I think I will do also such a holiday in summer where we would just sleep in a tent and go for long walks to the forest, also in the night only with the flashlight and the children would be afraid and would have fun.

 

By the way, my akathisia stopped. What a blessing!

[AliG]

Thanks guys.

 

Flowers: It is very beautiful at night, with the lights etc.and I love fragrance, whether it's oils, flowers or perfume. I often burn oils and scented candles for the scent but also the therapeutic benefits. 

 

Prestorb,Winning through, Manymoretodays, Martina.Thank you all.

 

MMT.  I do have the odd " catnap". Never for very long as it messes the Circadian rhythm up further. Maybe 15 - 20 minutes. Temperature is not a problem as we have air conditioning and a back deck overlooking the pool.  All, pretty much are necessities where I live. It gets extremely hot.

 

I like the idea of camping too, Martina. Being out under the stars sounds lovely.

 

I wonder about Tardive Dysphoria after so many years of antidepressants.These drugs can cause depression so where does that leave me at this point?

 

I feel like I'm "up the creek without a paddle".

[Martina23]

Ali, against the depression is the best sport. I am sure if you would start doing some sport regularly,your depression will start to dissipate and you will feel much better. And for the rest I would get counselling.

[direstraits]

Ali,just want to send my love and support to you,and hope we can both be free from the grip of depression someday...xoxo

[KLA324]

(((Ali)))

 

Praying that you can experience a bit of joy this weekend. 

 

Be kind to yourself.  You are a beautiful human being.

 

Karen

[AmyK]

I am sorry you are suffering, Ali. Have you tried therapy? Maybe I read somewhere that you didnt find the right one yet? It's so much about chemistry. Maybe try again to find one? There must be someone special for you.

Do you know about somatic experiencing therapy? I met a therapeut (after a stress burn out) that combined this therapy with gestalt therapy. This was several years ago, but I went to her for years. She helped me so much, saved me actually.

http://www.traumahealing.org/

 

Thinking about you. Hugs!

[AliG]

Just for the record.

 

Another " all nighter ".        I'm not sure when this is supposed to end !

[manymoretodays]

Hormones?  I mean where are you at with that kind of thing.  As well as the hormonal imbalances subsequent to medication.  I'm not sure if I would recommend or not recommend bioidentical hormones.  That is really your decision.   And you can get tested via your blood........thing is that they are always fluctuating and it is not exact at all........ but might give a practitioner some guidance.

 

  And definitely movement to re pattern your autonomic nervous system and those same old responses to everything.  LOL......after reading about your pool and deck I am going to throw out there some nude sunbathing?  Just 20 minutes though.  Or maybe that's your norm in Aussieland........LOL again.......nudity is just so funny.

 

Swimming is great too........water therapy of any kind. 

 

I don't know......I use the therapist for support mainly........not to go over and over old stuff, except when it effects new stuff and ways of being.  Maybe she reminds me of the why and then it's just easier to practice not being the same way over and over.    I really like my therapist time now and will be sad when I give it up.  I will though.......I think........maybe in another year or so.    And as stuff comes up........she will always listen really well.......others don't so much........I don't know why that is.........or they don't validate my experiences........but I am learning and doing it myself with writing I think.

 

I think you, even while depressed may need to stretch it a bit...........get past the fear of actually being mentally healthy..........I mean after all you have been told about yourself by pros.............  And whatever your family history/genetics are.  I'm starting to think that maybe we can change some of that programming just by getting well.......and living well.    Maybe pick some new friends or something?  Tell your family to stop treating you as an MI?

 

Just brainstorming.........pick the nude sunbathing..........

 

Nice and sunny here today and 50 degrees C now.   Ahhhhhhh.  Yesterday was a tough one so am enjoying today's not so tough one.  Dreaming of my garden next year and Emu's and goats.........

[AliG]

Many MoreTodays. LOL. I am on hormones and do find them helpful.

 

Therapy has never been big on my agenda due to lots of inept therapists that I have encountered.However maybe I'm ready to try again.

[dalsaan]

Just for the record.

 

Another " all nighter ".        I'm not sure when this is supposed to end !

 

Does this mean you didn't sleep? So you have insomnia and depressive symptoms? Are you hypervigilant. Do you have a startle response when you are on the verge of dropping off to sleep?

 

If so I think addressing your CSA could be beneficial. I did and it was a significant turning point in my recovery. Others have argued against therapy. I went to a sexual assault counselling centre and found a wonderful therapist I also,read some great books which I can recommend if your interested

 

Dalsaan

[AliG]

Dalsaan. I've been up all night again. I'm not sure how I can keep doing this. I'm extremely hypervigilant at all times due to PTSD and drugs. If I could find a therapist that I connected with I would perhaps try again. I have never had any success with therapy. If you can reccomend anything that would help it would be great. Thank you.

[starburst]

I wonder about Tardive Dysphoria after so many years of antidepressants.These drugs can cause depression so where does that leave me at this point?

I think on this often Ali. For as long as I can remember I have suffered with 'sadness'. Even as a young child in a loving family. A lot of my issues stemmed from having a very anxious personality. I always worried about everything. As an adult I do believe that a lot of my issues stemmed from a mother who suffered with her own debilitating case of anxiety. I kind of 'learned' how to be anxious from my greatest role model. Whenever me or any of my siblings were sick we received a ridiculous amount of attention from an otherwise busy mother. I liked that attention. So I got sick a lot. When I had my own children I quickly learned not to tell my mother anything about my own children which she could misconstrue and worry about. It's an unhealthy relationship. Being on antidepressants for seven years helped numb me. Was that good or bad? I don't know! bad probably but at least I wasn't stressing every single minute of the day about every little thing that could or should go wrong. Now as I taper I am beginning to feel that sadness once again. I hope to God it is part of the withdrawal but I wonder if it is just who I am , what I have been moulded to be. I think I need counselling myself! Here I am trying to support you on your thread and I'm writing a blinking novel about my life. 

 

So what helps you to cope better? Do you feel better if you exercise? Do you feel better if you are with friends? Are there any activities that help to distract you? Sometimes it is a good idea to journal things down and start to see what it might be that will help. For me I tend to procrastinate and sit indoors too much. I often feel better if I drag myself out to the pools or even for a walk along the beach. But getting out is hard! I have to do a lot of self talk. Because I am getting back to 'my old self.......even though it feels like the old sad self' I realise that this is part of the recovery. I like to put together a 'bucket list' of all the things I will do when I am off these drugs and feeling better. Gosh, the list is so long it is crazy!! but I keep adding to it, almost daily. Even this morning when talking to someone she told me about her visit to Dubai so when I got home I added "Dubai" to the list!! I also collect dolls (although I try to stop!) but at the moment they are cheap 1970's old Skipper and Barbies so don't hurt the bank balance too much. I find doing their hair and dressing them makes me feel so happy. My husband thinks I'm crazy but he realises that it helps me so doesn't say anything. I take photos of them and put them on flickr for all the other 50 year old crazy doll ladies to admire (and there are plenty of them!) I'm not saying that you need to do anything like this but I guess I'm just wondering what it is that you enjoy and what could possibly distract you from your thoughts and take you to a little piece of paradise, if only for an hour or so. 

 

Take care my friend xx

[JanCarol]

I've pointed you to a "good one."   (therapist) Maybe she's not a good fit for you, but she is gentle, softspoken, genteel, classy and kind, and she's read "Anatomy of an Epidemic" and comes down on "our side" of the antidepressant problems.  IF she's not a good fit, she will tell you, and try and help you find someone who is a better fit.

 

I'm sorry you're in the "post holiday back in my PTSD life" depression space again.  So much energy you spend, fighting depression.  But it's a conundrum - because I remember surrendering to depression, just giving up, letting go, thinking - "I'll get up and go again when I'm healed, when I'm ready, when I'm better, when I've learned what I need to learn," except then it never happened.  Weeks became months, became years.  Sort of like what you were saying about trauma, vs. sad vs. what did those drugs do to me?

 

I won't tell you to grab your bootstraps or kick your butt.  I will suggest that you at least call and get one appointment with the therapist I've sent you.  It won't hurt you - I promise you that.  And it might even help you, or point you in a new direction that will ultimately help you.

 

Beyond the therapist, I have 2 things to offer:  our usual "coffee meet" really wants an Ali at the table. (see PM)

 

and this about depression:

 

Love and hugs to you, hope to see you soon.

[freespirit]

Hi Ali,

 

I imagine there are quite a number of us who can relate to your post and the life-long suffering. For myself, I see multiple layers in this, including the damage from taking drugs. However, I find that a far too limited view of things. It's one piece of the story, but not the whole thing. There's your history, tendencies, the use of drugs, etc....but I believe there's more than that. You can call it anything you like, but I believe there's an essential spiritual side of ourselves too. I'm not talking religion or even about belief in something.

 

I'm finding that as the layers of WD peel away, there are ever-increasing calls to attend to parts of myself that I've turned away from. They are aspects I find unattractive or inconvenient and are most often the parts that others have also ostracized. Doing battle with these things only intensifies them and makes happiness a long-lost memory. I find the only thing I can do is turn towards them, and try to muster any thread of compassion that's available. I can do this in short bits, punctuated by exercise, distraction, and doing some things that can help calm my mind in the midst of it all...and then let the emotions, memories, and body sensations wash through. This is not for the faint of heart.

 

You know my opinion and experiences with therapy, but they are mine..so I won't recount them. The only thing I'll say is that I believe if one is to go it alone, minus a therapist, then we ourselves must become that therapist. We need to provide encouragement, kindness, compassion, and a deep willingness to explore, feel, and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Some folks are able to find this through another person. I had it in some respects with my meditation teacher, and once or twice with a therapist. But largely, I've had to find my own way through. This is somehow my karma.

 

One thing I've noticed of late regarding what I've called "depression" in the past. When I start coddling myself too much, and not challenging in some ways--longer or different bike rides, doing more things socially, stretching my mind, more complex qi gong--then my emotions become stagnant too. I'm still trying to figure out how much to stretch myself, when to be quiet and stay in, and when to push the boundaries more. But I believe something is continually calling me to go deeper, and if I try to avoid that, I end up back in the swamp I've known in my past.

 

It's tricky, and I don't think there's anyone else that can tell us which is the road to take at any given moment. I've found there is no "fix" and in fact, looking for a fix only deepens the swamp. The often racing mind that comes with WD and trauma makes it challenging to hear anything else. That's why I keep encouraging you on something, anything that will help calm. If the mind can rest a little, you can begin to listen beneath and find whatever will serve you along the path. I find these days that qi gong as it calms my mind, is also opening and awakening body memories and emotions. It's not comfortable, but it's preferable to the racing mind in my opinion.

 

I'll pose the same question I gave to Tilly sometime back. What is it your soul longs for? There are probably thousands of things that we've turned away from in life because it seems "silly" or "unrealistic" or "impractical" or "impossible". It doesn't fit with the image we've had of ourselves, or it makes us uncomfortable because we feel weak or slow, or it would challenge our relationships, our family life, etc. It's typically those very things that we are being asked to turn towards..as well as the things we've denied ourselves that would bring more joy and aliveness to our lives.

 

Will leave you with the words of Mary Oliver, who in my view, can say things better than anyone else I know of:

 

Morning Poem
by Mary Oliver
 

Every morning
the world
is created.
Under the orange

sticks of the sun
the heaped
ashes of the night
turn into leaves again

and fasten themselves to the high branches—
and the ponds appear
like black cloth
on which are painted islands

of summer lilies.
If it is your nature
to be happy
you will swim away along the soft trails

for hours, your imagination
alighting everywhere.
And if your spirit
carries within it

the thorn
that is heavier than lead—
if it's all you can do
to keep on trudging—

there is still
somewhere deep within you
a beast shouting that the earth
is exactly what it wanted—

each pond with its blazing lilies
is a prayer heard and answered
lavishly,
every morning,

whether or not
you have ever dared to be happy,
whether or not
you have ever dared to pray.

[ChessieCat]

This video is very interesting.  I found it a bit stressful listening to the first bit but breathed through it and kept going.  What he was saying seems to be what I have learned when it comes to grief (and grief can be the loss of anything), understand what it is, tell myself I know what is happening, accept it and feel the feelings.  I realised that if I fought the feelings they were only going to come back later down the track and could possibly end up causing additional problems.  I have been able to transfer this to other feelings as well.  For instance anger.

 

Enjoy your coffees (or coffee substitutes if you can't handle coffee )

 

CC

[KLA324]

Ali,

 

Since you're not posting, I hope it means you are sleeping!

 

If so, sweet dreams!!

 

Karen

[apace41]

This video is very interesting. 

 

Agree, ChessieCat.  Very interesting. Thanks, JC, for posting it.

 

I think what he says invites a deeper consideration of the importance of finding "our true authentic selves" because it is very, very hard to be happy or content if we are trying to be something we intrinsically do not believe we are.   I would encourage everyone, whether you suffer from depression or not, to watch the video as it is interesting from this perspective.

 

I am also a strong believer in the value of therapy.  Of course it is important to find the "right" therapist, but if you have someone who is highly recommended by someone who has first hand experience with the therapist, that seems like a good place to start.  None of us come to our adulthood completely unscathed by the impressions that life leaves on us along the way.  Some (like Ali) have deeper and more obvious scars than others, but none of us are unscathed.  Very few among us are able to "do the work" necessary to overcome those scars by ourselves and the help of a caring, insightful and empathetic therapist can often by the means through which someone can address their suffering and move to the next level.  I can't recommend it highly enough even if only for the experience of being in a setting where you turn inward and consider things you may never have formally considered before.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

Hi Ali

 

So sorry you are battling the depression. You are such a lovely person I wish I could suggest something to take away your pain.

 

I hope you find a way to find some peace.

 

Thinking of you.

 

Flowers xxxx

[melanie]

I wonder about Tardive Dysphoria after so many years of antidepressants. These drugs can cause depression so where does that leave me at this point?

Hey Ali,

 

I read that passage, sorry I wasn't able to reply at the time... I was in a bad wave, I still am. But at least I started doing something about my taper again. You're in my thoughts, along with all the other people who showed kindness and compassion to me at a given moment.

 

It's past 9 am in Brissy, it's past midnight here. You were taking psychiatric medications for 20 years... I've been taking them for 28 years, so I guess I understand. At least you ditched them all. This is a huge achievement, always keep it in mind.

 

You come to this forum like a beam of sun, sending encouragement, love and hope to all those lost souls, who end up here... Cause they sometimes have nowhere else to go... You help others tremendously. Think about it every time the depression hits.

 

Insomnia has been my constant companion ever since my teens. I also was abused as a child. Then, throughout my life. I've always been trying to numb the trauma with pills, to no avail...

 

I understand all those feelings so well... Not a day goes by without crying.

 

Your current depression may just be a post-holiday blues... Insomnia worsened by changing of time zones. Did they get any better?

 

I loved the question Freespirit posted on your thread: "What is it your soul longs for?". My soul longs for peace... What about yours?

 

And when I read the poem, I actually cried: "Every morning the world is created [...]" Yes, every day is a new beginning...

 

I'll echo that with a quote from Andrew Matthews' "Being happy":

 

"Wherever you are, it is the place to start. The effort you expend today does make a difference."

 

And believe me, Ali, you have come a long way to get where you are. It is a good place...

 

Wishing you lots of healing,

Mel

[Pugknows]

Hi Ali,

 

So sorry the insomnia is your new best friend. With friends like that, who needs enemies? I'll be stoking the logs in the fireplace with you. Apparently, insomnia has LOTS of friends. Ha!

 

Love, Pug

[freespirit]

 

This video is very interesting. 

 

Agree, ChessieCat.  Very interesting. Thanks, JC, for posting it.

 

I think what he says invites a deeper consideration of the importance of finding "our true authentic selves" because it is very, very hard to be happy or content if we are trying to be something we intrinsically do not believe we are.   I would encourage everyone, whether you suffer from depression or not, to watch the video as it is interesting from this perspective.

 

I am also a strong believer in the value of therapy.  Of course it is important to find the "right" therapist, but if you have someone who is highly recommended by someone who has first hand experience with the therapist, that seems like a good place to start.  None of us come to our adulthood completely unscathed by the impressions that life leaves on us along the way.  Some (like Ali) have deeper and more obvious scars than others, but none of us are unscathed.  Very few among us are able to "do the work" necessary to overcome those scars by ourselves and the help of a caring, insightful and empathetic therapist can often by the means through which someone can address their suffering and move to the next level.  I can't recommend it highly enough even if only for the experience of being in a setting where you turn inward and consider things you may never have formally considered before.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

 

I'm going to challenge this thought Andy, though I believe you mean this with all the best of intentions. Actually, many among us are very capable of doing the necessary work. However, we've been lead to think that we aren't. Therapy has been touted as the be all and end all, but for a lot of us, it isn't. If we actually "need" a therapist to heal, then what of those of us who have never really found it. Are we destined to languish in suffering for eternity, because the elusive "right" therapist has never yet come along?

 

I can guarantee you 100% that I find deeper healing in a bike ride than I ever did in a therapist's office. That my cats provide something that no human being has. That nature supports and cares for me in ways that no person ever can. That listening to music, or reading a poem, or sitting quietly outdoors can bring healing in the deepest and most profound ways..and more importantly, in ways that are safe.

 

The piece that most people fail to grasp is that therapy is not the same for someone with a very traumatic history as it is for the average person. While therapists may be able to support the average kind of suffering, almost none (in my experience and that of other traumatized people I know) have the slightest idea of what to do with the level of suffering that comes with trauma. Time and again, I was traumatized by the therapists who were supposed to be there to support me. When I reached those most painful places, I was judged, chastised, and treated with cruelty. Why on earth would someone consciously choose to continue on those lines. Though I don't know the details of Ali's experiences in therapy, she has repeatedly said on here that she has felt traumatized. And yet, still the pressure to find that "perfect therapist".

 

Therapy is a modern construct and one that we seem to readily buy into. But for centuries, people have sought and found healing through prayer, meditation, music, chanting, drumming, shamanism, herbs, food, sacred substances, vision quests...just to name a few things.

 

JC, I have such respect for you and value your experience. However, neither you nor anyone else can guarantee that a visit with a therapist you know of is safe and okay. I personally have been harmed in that single and only visit to a therapist..ones that came with recommendations from friends or other practitioners...and ones with all the bells and whistles to suggest they "knew" about trauma.

 

On beyond meds, Monica often says that "everything matters". I couldn't agree more. I find that almost anything can and does bring healing...the sense of empowerment that comes from making ones own choices and finding healing, not being dependent on a therapist, cannot be measured. There are a million paths to healing, and that doesn't need to include a therapist.

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread Ali....now returning it back to you.

 

Wishing you some moments of ease in the midst of suffering. I have confidence that you'll find your way through this too.

[apace41]

Free,

 

I will defend your right to believe what you believe to the ends of the earth. That is what we define as true personal freedom.  Having said that, I believe you have allowed your personal experiences with bad therapy to taint you to the point of dismissing it as possibly being valuable for others.  That is a shame.

 

I would never suggest that therapy is the right answer for everyone but putting yourself in an environment where you have a vested interest in exploring the issues that made you who you are can be a very good thing.  I recognize there are bad therapists but there are also good ones, and I'm not suggesting the only way to heal is by finding some mythical perfect therapist.  

 

I'm not going to further hijack Ali's thread but suffice it to say that there are two sides to this issue, informed by one's own personal experience, without regard to the circumstances that lead someone to the therapist's office.  I maintain that there is value for the right person in the right setting and would encourage anyone who is considering it to give it a try because it can provide an important outlet and opportunity for introspection.

 

Andy 

[freespirit]

I'm going to continue this on my own thread, because I don't want to continue to use Ali's..but the part I didn't express in my post was that I was a therapist for a long period of time and my experience is based on my working with people too. I've been on both sides of that fence. My experience of therapy is my experience, not a belief. People are free to chose whatever they want and need on the path..but here on Ali's thread, she's said she feels traumatized by therapy..and is still being pushed towards it. How would you feel about being pushed back towards drugs? I suspect not very much.

[Martina23]

Ali, how are you? Are you feeling already better? Did you decide for or against therapy :-) ? I think it is good that so many people came to tell you about their experiences with the therapy.  I went to therapist twice. I felt there good, I had only a feeling that the therapist had already expectations what I should answer or how I should behave. And sometimes he tried to push me a bit to decisions. But I will maybe try once more therapy for intrusive thoughts. In 30 minutes I have a meeting with my boss and personal chef, I am afraid of it, because the combinations of two does not sound that it will come something positive. Hopefully they will not kick me out. If not, most probably I will ask them to give me slight salary increase. But I am quite nervous about the meeting.

[AliG]

Hi Martina,

 

Still struggling, but trying to push through it.  Thank you for checking in. You're right , I'm fortunate to have people here, who care, including yourself. Thank you.  No , I have not decided yet , although I'm leaning towards trying again.

 

While I'm here, I just want to thank everyone for their thoughts and encouragement.  It means so much , to me.

[manymoretodays]

Here.  In the house.  Been up for an hour now and I guess if I was a work for pay person this wouldn't be so unusual but.........somehow I didn't slumber until close to 1am and then a banging around associate woke me.  I am leaning towards sleep walking rather than drugs or alcohol now.......as far as his banging around-ness?  Hope so.

 

I went to the movies last night and ate...........drum roll.......Thai food.  Wondering now what they really eat in Thailand?  Perhaps I should put it on my short list???!!!!

 

I am not sitting on pins and needles around waiting to hear on this job.  A bit worried I will suffer the fall out if I don't get it........as well as the worry that if I do get it I will fail.  That's all I will say about that until further notice.  I did the pros and cons list in my head.......and of course now I think it would be perfect.......so so much for that.  No job is perfect.

 

Therapy later.  Push more papers if I don't over distract for too long on the net here. 

 

I could use a temperature check from Australia........and beach report.........something like that.  I could do a get away next week but may not........oh, I should/could/ought to.........soooo.......never know.  Of course not to Australia.  Maybe to Timbuktoo.......lol........

 

I think that as long as you have a sturdy boat........well then it is okay to feel like you are up the creek with no paddle.  A nice comfy boat........a fairly mellow and calm creek.........sounds good to me.  It doesn't have to be painful to feel and acknowledge it all.......oh......I know, it is sometimes........C.S. Lewis anyone?  The problem with pain(a book).  Sometimes though.....the philosophical approach doesn't quite cut it either, in my limited experience with it all.  It just is.

[AliG]

 Hi M.M.T. ,

 

Have I told you , my youngest son is home.  He " bangs around " a bit too.  I get it.  

 

Thai food ? what did you think ?  I think you should put it on your short list.! You would like it there, for sure.  As far as the job goes, if you don't get it another one will be along, soon .

 

You should come and visit one day. You would love the beaches. !!  It's fairly hot here now , even though it's Spring. Summer will be a " scorcher" !

 

I love your very " mellow" approach to things, M.  I will  look for that comfy boat , and calm creek and let it be what it is .   " it just is".   I like that.  Thank you.

 

Enjoy your paradise, today.