LotusRising: Buspar, Ativan

[Altostrata]

Stick with 0.0625mg. No more corrections on the fly.

 

You may or may not continue to feel paradoxical effects from your earlier dosage escalation. You're going to have to surf the waves.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogieit is the paradoxical reactions that worry me the most. Just confirming, you don’t think I should reduce my last two doses to less than .0625?

[Altostrata]

The paradoxical reactions will fade as the dose is metabolized. We can't work with the inconsistent dosing. No more ad hoc corrections. Stick with 0.0625mg.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrataok thank you. I just needed the reassurance. I took the .0625, but I did take it late. Should I take the next one 4hrs from the last one, or at my usual time. 

[Altostrata]

Take it in 4 hours from the last dose, but tomorrow, get back on your regular schedule. We will need to see the notes over at least 24 hours, as usual.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie ok will do. Sorry for the escalation. The paradoxical reactions last long and are scary. I will stick to the doses you tell me to take. I don’t want to experience that again. 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

Day 1 Oct 31 Notes 

 

0600          clonazepam 0.0625mg

0630-830  slept

0830          chest tightness/anxiety 4/10

                    tinnitus, mild

0900           chest tightness/anxiety 5-6/10, did a 40min walk, 20min meditation

1000            clonazepam 0.0625mg

1050            some chest tightness 1/10, mild scalp burning

1050-1400  symptom-free

1400            clonazepam 0.0625mg

1400-1500  chest tightening up 4-5/10, breathing, meditation

1515             mild tinnitus

1530-1645  symptom-free

1700             transient anxiety 2/10, lasting about 10-15min

1750             another small wave of anxiety

1800             clonazepam 0.0625mg

1845             anxiety 4/10, chest tightness 2/10, restlessness - went away in approx 30min

1930-2100   symptom-free       

2100             in bed reading, asleep by 2230

0200            woke briefly, back to sleep

0445            woke briefly, back to sleep

0600            clonazepam 0.0625mg    

[Frogie]

Just a quick glance of your notes, it looks like you’re starting to have less severe anxiety.

 

Good news!

[LotusRising]

Yes, it does feel that way @Frogie 

[Frogie]

Great news!

[Altostrata]

How do you feel when you wake in the morning, before taking the 6 a.m. clonazepam dose?

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata this morning I did not have anxiety before taking my 0600 dose. 

[Altostrata]

Please continue on this schedule, symptoms may be smoothing out.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

 

Is it possible the anxiety attack I had, starting at around 1700, and the chest tightness, could be buspar withdrawal symptoms? Or do you think this is my body adjusting to the lower dose of clonazepam?

 

The chest tightness feels somewhat "chemical" in nature, as in, I've had generalized chest tightness before, but somehow this seems nerve related, if that makes sense at all.

[LotusRising]

Cortisol surges, akathisia, agitation

 

I'm trying to understand the difference between these three. I've been getting surges of what I call "anxiety" where my heart rate will suddenly start to increase and I feel like I need to keep my body moving and breathe very slowly to prevent panic from setting in. These surges can last up to two hours. Is this a cortisol surge? I also have episodes where my chest will start to tighten on it's own - I can physically feel it tightening over a very short period of time and sometimes it stays like this for over an hour. Sometimes meditation and breathing help, and other times not. Is this also cortisol?

 

Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

47 minutes ago, MedRN said:

Cortisol surges, akathisia, agitation

 

I have merged your new topic with your Introduction topic.  Before creating a new topic, please do a search to see if there is existing topic.  SA likes to keep similar information in one topic which makes it easier for other members to find the information/discussion.

 

There are many existing topics on SA where members discuss symptoms.

 

I suggest you do a search for these symptoms individually.

 

The site search is one option, the other is using an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.  If you do not find what you are looking for try using a different word for the symptom.

[LotusRising]

Sorry about that @ChessieCat I’ll see if I can find what I’m looking for with a search. So in future, if I want to post, I just add to my own introduction topic?

[Greatful]

@MedRN  I think some of them are one and the same.  I sometimes get little panic surges in the early mornings that start in my stomach and ramp up.  If I sit in it and let the surge happen it dissipates but I can have general anxiety at the same time,  low energy running through me.  I also get were my brain is in a panic and feels like it has to find it's way out of a maze and then my body feels like it has to run or bolt. I feel like I am on the verge of a panic attack.

 I can get the intense tight energy in my body  and I feel like I am panting to breathe, short of breath and it is hard to talk straight. 

Do you get the tingling that runs through your body, arms and legs?

I do not have the need to move some part of my body like some.  Just the underline restlessness.  Sometimes there is a couple of symptoms going on at the same time. 

It can be relentless and a vicious cycle.  

 

Hang in there❤️

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, MedRN said:

Sorry about that @ChessieCat I’ll see if I can find what I’m looking for with a search. So in future, if I want to post, I just add to my own introduction topic?

 

SA works differently to many other forums.  Each member has their own Introduction topic.

 

Your Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions specific to your own situation and also to journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means that you do not have to repeat your story.  Your Introduction topic also is a case study, which medical professionals can use.  One of SA's missions is to educate the medical profession about psychiatric drugs, their adverse effects and withdrawal from them.  There have already been research papers that have been written using some of the members case studies.

 

SA staff regularly check for new posts by members in the Introduction forum.  Because the site is very busy, the small number of staff may not see posts made in other areas of the site.

 

BTW Please do not tag me (see my signature).  Thank you.

Tagging the staff for general things can cause them unnecessary stress.  This is a large forum with a lot of members needing assistance from a small number of staff.  The SA staff are unrostered and unpaid and assist members as and when they can.

[Altostrata]

Cortisol surges happen in the early morning, due to the normal cortisol peak.

 

Your symptom pattern appears to be smoothing out on your current clonazepam schedule. Please continue to post daily notes.

 

You will need to surf the bumps, and keep yourself from panicking. That generates more distress on top of the chemical surges.

 

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata 

Yes, it does feel like things are smoothing out and I'm doing what I can to prevent myself from panicking.

 

Here are my notes for Nov 2

Day 3 clonazepam .0625mg 06/10/14/18

 

0600    clonaz .0625mg

0730    chest tightness 2/10, tinnitus

0830    chest tightness 4-5/10, heart pounding but heart rate normal - breathing/meditation exercises

0915     drove to grocery store, slightly anxious

0930.   had a short panic attack at the store, left store around 1000 and panic started to subside

1000.    clonaz .0625mg

1400.    mild increase in chest tightness - breathing exercises for 30mins

1400.    clonaz .0625mg

1500.    went for a 30min walk

1600     tinnitus

1700.    feeling a little uptick in anxiety, chest starting to tighten - breathing/stretching exercises 30mins

1800.    clonaz .0625mg

             some itching to scalp, mild

1830.    went for a 30min walk

2020.   mild, free-floating anxiety

             in bed reading

2200.   asleep

0450.   woke briefly, but no anxiety or tightness and back to sleep

0600.   clonaz 0.0625mg

 

[LotusRising]

@Greatful yes, I know what you mean about feeling on the verge of panic. It is definitely taking practice and control to manage these symptoms so they don't escalate. It's the out of the blue surges of anxiety that I find the most difficult to tolerate, as they seem to come out of nowhere. But, I'm starting to be able to notice the tension building, which is my clue to either get out for a walk or do some breathing exercises. Trying to keep myself as calm as possible most of the time and not exposing myself to situations that are too anxiety-provoking. No, I don't get the tingling that runs through my body. I get some tingling in my feet and scalp at times, but just randomly.

 

Thanks for checking in

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

Here are my Day 4 notes

 

I have definitely had a lot more anxiety overnight, nothing over the top, but was not able to sleep. I'm wondering a little about the accuracy of my scale. I'm guessing my doses vary from .057 to .065, which when I do the calculations, could be a substantial change in total dose.  I'm waiting on the arrival of a better scale and capsules today or tomorrow. Can I assume that I should be ok to continue dosing at .0625mg with the new scale, or will this seem like too much for my body? Thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

 

Nov 3 .0625mg 4x/day

 

0600   clonaz

0845   generalized chest tightness/neck tension

0915   30 min walk

1000   clonaz

1030.  tinnitus

1200.  meditation

1300.  25min walk

1400.  clonaz

1420.  20min meditation

1750.  mild anxiety 2-3/10, mild burning/itching to scalp

1800.  clonaz

1900.  25min walk

2050   in bed reading

2200.  anxiety 3/10, using sleep meditations

2300.  still awake, anxiety 3/10

0100.   maybe dozed a bit, anxiety 3-4/10

0140.   mild hunger/nausea

0300.   shaky, anxiety 4-5/10

0530.   some burning sensations to scalp, tinnitus, anxiety 4/10

0600.   clonaz

[Altostrata]

Is your tinnitus better or worse after you take a dose of clonazepam?

 

@Frogie how about liquid clonazepam?

[Frogie]

@Altostrata @MedRN

 

Liquid is certainly an option. If you could get it from the dr that would be even better.

 

If not you would have to dissolve it in vodka and then add water to make the solution. @brassmonkeyI’m sure could help me with the vodka and water ratio.

 

@MedRN

What are your thoughts on trying liquid? I found it much easier when I was tapering the Lexapro, but I was able to get a prescription from the dr for it.

[LotusRising]

@Altostrata

 

The tinnitus comes and goes, I wouldn't say it's every really that bad, but I can definitely pay closer attention to it over the next couple of days relative to my dosing. Would more tinnitus suggest too much, or too little? I definitely have some tinnitus and chest tightness right now and my last dose was at 1800.

 

I did have quite a bit of chest tightness/adrenaline surges today and kind of a rough night, but I'm assuming this is the waves and windows pattern of withdrawal. I'm getting somewhat more used to it, so it doesn't scare me as much. And I will have a better scale tomorrow. I've also spoken to my pharmacist and he thinks he can make a liquid for me. I have an initial psychiatrist appointment next week, which I am not looking forward to, but I was kind of waiting on that prescription to ask about the liquid preparation. Does that sound reasonable?

[LotusRising]

@Frogie @Altostrata 

 

My pharmacist said it doesn't come in a liquid and I'm not that confident with mixing up my own a this point. Perhaps it is something I can ease into. I'm only just getting the hang of weighing and think it will be much more accurate with my new scale.

[Frogie]

Just now, MedRN said:

@Frogie @Altostrata 

 

My pharmacist said it doesn't come in a liquid and I'm not that confident with mixing up my own a this point. Perhaps it is something I can ease into. I'm only just getting the hang of weighing and think it will be much more accurate with my new scale.

Ok we can stick with the scale for now and ease into it when you get more comfortable with the process. 

[Altostrata]

Please be careful to note any symptoms you get after taking a dose that were not present before you took the dose, with the time o'clock  of the symptom. We need to know when tinnitus gets worse.

 

Any doctor can prescribe these drugs, even a compounded liquid, it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist.

[Frogie]

@MedRN

 

I just found this online:

 

Clonazepam Rosemont Oral Solution is a clear, pale straw coloured liquid which smells of menthol. It comes in a brown glass bottle holding 150ml of solution and with a 2.5ml/5ml double ended spoon with 1.25ml measuring line.

 

It does indeed come in liquid form.

[LotusRising]

1 minute ago, Frogie said:

@MedRN

 

I just found this online:

 

Clonazepam Rosemont Oral Solution is a clear, pale straw coloured liquid which smells of menthol. It comes in a brown glass bottle holding 150ml of solution and with a 2.5ml/5ml double ended spoon with 1.25ml measuring line.

 

It does indeed come in liquid form.

@FrogieOh, interesting, and this is in Canada? Can I ask where you found this info so I can pass on to my pharmacist?

[LotusRising]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please be careful to note any symptoms you get after taking a dose that were not present before you took the dose,

@Altostrata Would this be within the hour of taking it, or when it is reaching its peak effect? I think in general, I am noting most symptoms, but will pay closer attention.

[Altostrata]

@Frogie that Rosemont is in the UK. But compounding pharmacies in Canada should be able to make clonazepam liquid.

[Altostrata]

1 minute ago, MedRN said:

@Altostrata Would this be within the hour of taking it, or when it is reaching its peak effect? I think in general, I am noting most symptoms, but will pay closer attention.

 

Since you're taking 4 doses a day, it could be any time between doses.

[LotusRising]

@AltostrataOk, I will post 24hr notes tomorrow and pay close attention for Nov 5 notes. Thanks again for all your help. 

[Frogie]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Frogie that Rosemont is in the UK. But compounding pharmacies in Canada should be able to make clonazepam liquid.

Ooops, my mistake. I apologize for that. I do know my insurance will pay for compounding if a specific request is sent by the dr.