Mezzer: cold turkey

[Mezzer]

10 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Such a great analogy!

Thank you @Onmywaygreat analogy is true and so is the unpleasant part. Wishing us all smooth progress 

[Mezzer]

On 6/7/2022 at 3:07 PM, Kaervin said:

Hi Mezzer. I too am at the low end of my AD taper and at 12.5 mgs it feels like I hit a brick wall. Anhedonia, restlessness, horrible sleep, little appetite.

 

I was like you 11 months after stopping benzos and alcohol. It literally felt like a ride that was never going to end. A horrible wave made me desperate and I jumped on ADs, which in hindsight caused me to be in my current predicament. 

 

However the withdrawals from the other stuff did eventually end and I went from being an agoraphobic mess to being able to travel and get in great shape. Now that I am coming off sertraline I am back in the withdrawal hell once again...but I know from my own personal experience that things will get better. The negative symptoms you feel are a sign that your brain is reparing itself and healing. Construction work is unpleasant and noisy, but the end result is wonderful.

 

As you continue with your taper just pamper your mind and body the best that you can. Don't be afraid to pause your taper if you feel your symptoms becoming too intolerable.

 

You are not alone on this journey as several others and myself are right here fighting the same battle beside you. There are thousands that have already successfully completed their tapers and are fully or mostly healed. You can reach that goal and deserve it just like anyone else. 

 

Just keep us updated on your progress. Putting what you feel into words can be very therapeutic, and the feedback invaluable.

 

Stay strong.

Thank you Kaervin, much appreciated, I felt better for the past couple weeks. I dropped some of the Prozac and am now paying the price 11 days later. Need to stabilize for a bit. Man I’m low. 

[Soup]

Could really use some words of encouragement . Have been off k and lex for a few years now . Still had Wellbutrin to come off but had been feeling not too badly these last years and was planning my taper until I had to take an antibiotic and right back where I was when I came off the others . Feeling super discouraged and trapped . Been 5 mo this like this and just could use some kind words …… feeling very sorry for myself . Hugs to all suffering 

[wantrelief]

Hello @Soup:  I am so sorry you have experienced this setback.....it must be incredibly frustrating and painful to have been doing so well and now be feeling back to where you were when you came off both Klonopin and Lexapro (congratulations on this huge accomplishment!).  It sounds like your nervous system has been destabilized somehow from the antibiotic so it will settle in time. You will get back to that better place and move forward with your Wellbutrin taper.  Hang in there, Soup.  You have already proven you are super strong by being able to get off of two drugs so there is no doubt you will get through this too.  I just wish you didn't have to.  Sending you lots of good thoughts, WR.

[Soup]

@wantrelief thank you so much for your kind words . They really do mean so much when you are in this awful place . Last year I was able to work and even do a few trips . Now completely disabled again unable to really do anything . Family has to stay with me all the time now ……uggg I had such high hopes for starting my taper . Thank you again 

[Mezzer]

On 6/7/2022 at 10:03 PM, Onmyway said:

Such a great analogy!

@onmyway I’ve lowered my dose of Prozac from 13mg to 10mg 2 weeks ago from today. Started feeling really crappy (low mood, anxiety, chills) I know it was a big drop, but I wasn’t able to measure the doses that fine so I did as close as I could. Is it to late to reinstate or just wait until I calm down a bit. Hoping for some advise. Thank you 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Mezzer

It's not too late to reinstate but I would suggest going back to 11mg rather than 13 as some adaptation has occurred in your brain already.

 

You could choose to ride it out - if the symptoms are bearable but we don't know when they will calm down. It could be weeks or months. But we also don't know when reinstatement will work so it's not an easy choice. Can you try increasing stepwise by a bit like go to 11.5 and wait for a week and then if that's not enough but also doesn't make you worse off you can increase a bit more and so on.

 

In the tapering forum have you seen the thread on how to taper off prozac? It tells you the ways to get the right dosage. It might be helpful to get consistent doses of the drug.

 

Hope you start feeling better soon

Omw

 

[Mezzer]

Thank you @onmyway, the symptoms are sporadic and could possibly still be from the Nortriptylene as well so I’m going to try and hold here for a bit and hope there’s some stabilization. I had a couple of stressful days last Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday which also could have contributed. Can I ask if you have any experience or heard of maca root. I’ve been taking 1000mg for about 7 weeks now. It’s for lower hormone levels. 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Mezzer

I know nothing about maca root. What hormone levels is it supposed to help? 

Have you seen it change your symptoms in any way? In WD we tend to be sensitive to drugs/alcohol/supplements etc. 

Have you checked if anyone else has taken it on the forums? 

OMW
 

 

[Kaervin]

18 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @Mezzer

It's not too late to reinstate but I would suggest going back to 11mg rather than 13 as some adaptation has occurred in your brain already.

I concur. Your cut from 13 to 10 mg could be thought as one big step forward. Rather than taking a full one step back, reinstating back to 11 mg would only be 1/3 step back so you will still have gained 2/3 step forward in your taper. Not to mention there may be a chance going back to 13 may not even help or make you feel worse.

 

If you can manage to stabilise on a lower dose, then you could hold for awhile and do smaller cuts from now on. 10% is the general recommendation and you just recently did a 23% cut.

[Mezzer]

6 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @Mezzer

I know nothing about maca root. What hormone levels is it supposed to help? 

Have you seen it change your symptoms in any way? In WD we tend to be sensitive to drugs/alcohol/supplements etc. 

Have you checked if anyone else has taken it on the forums? 

OMW
 

 

Hi, it may increase hormones. Studies are few and light. It def increases libido and some cognitive function. Raises energy levels. I was taking it for a few weeks without any issues and last week had stress issues and a wave popped up. I was thinking it may be the maca root. Was most likely the stress and other things. I will ask on one of the forums. Thank you 

[Onmyway]

19 minutes ago, Mezzer said:

Hi, it may increase hormones. Studies are few and light. It def increases libido and some cognitive function. Raises energy levels. I was taking it for a few weeks without any issues and last week had stress issues and a wave popped up. I was thinking it may be the maca root. Was most likely the stress and other things. I will ask on one of the forums. Thank you 

Hi @Mezzer, 

there are so many hormones in the human body that 'it raises hormones' is not very informative. And if they are using that as marketing then you can be sure that it is a con. Generally you don't want hormones to be increased or decreased - you want them to be in their normal levels. For examples high thyroid hormones can be too activating, too much testosterone can cause violence/anxiety etc. 

 

When I look for it they say not to take it if you have thyroid issues but thyroid and sex hormones are quite different and not sure if it can impact all hormones (seems a bit suspicious). I am skeptical of 99.99% of supplement claims even more so than pharma claims. 

 

However, what you are feeling is most likely the effect of the prozac reduction. Prozac's impact is slow so a reduction also takes a while to register in the body - if for citalopram you feel the effects of a dosage change within 4-7 days, for Prozac that timeframe will be doubled and tripled. It takes almost a month for a dose a prozac to fully leave your body. So even though you lowered your dose 2 weeks ago, some of the previous high dose is just leaving the body. 

 

Have you decided on reinstatement? You can try 10.5mg as a tester dose. 

This will give you tips on how to get small doses. 

 

[Mezzer]

1 hour ago, Kaervin said:

I concur. Your cut from 13 to 10 mg could be thought as one big step forward. Rather than taking a full one step back, reinstating back to 11 mg would only be 1/3 step back so you will still have gained 2/3 step forward in your taper. Not to mention there may be a chance going back to 13 may not even help or make you feel worse.

 

If you can manage to stabilise on a lower dose, then you could hold for awhile and do smaller cuts from now on. 10% is the general recommendation and you just recently did a 23% cut.

That sounds smart thank you 

[Mezzer]

Protracted withdrawals

 

Is there a certain amount of time before withdrawals are considered protracted. If you’re coming off more than one med and having withdrawals and still coming off is there a timeline to gauge if it’s protracted? Thank you 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[Mezzer]

Help after Covid

 

Hello, I’ve just gotten over Covid and am experiencing severe depression and anxiety. 6 days after getting Covid  I dropped into a wicked depression. It’s been 12 days now without a break. I have been weening meds for the past year and have had withdrawals that had finally lightened up then Covid hit. I also lowered my dose of Prozac from ten mgs to 7.5 the day Covid hit and immediately went back to ten. If anyone can share any insight concerns Covid and withdrawals and if it’s permanent because that’s what it feels like I would be grateful. I’m in such a low mood right now I’m so afraid of not pulling out of this. My diet is healthy and lean. My supplements I had working. I don’t know what to do to help myself. Any support or experience with this would be loved. Thank you 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Please do not create a new topic when you are posting questions and updates.  That is what your Introduction is for and keeps your history in one place.  Thank you.

 

When the body is stressed, which can be from any one of a huge number of things, then withdrawal symptoms might get worse.

 

Being sick is a huge stress on the body.  When the body is "under threat" the brain diverts its attention to keeping the person alive.  As an example, if we experience a shock (eg seeing or being involved in a horrific incident) the digestion slows down.

 

It is probably good that you returned to your previous dose straight away once you knew you had covid.  I think I would have done the same thing.

 

Your body has been really busy fighting a virus.  At this time if it has been successful in fighting the virus it will be busy trying to recover from the onslaught.  I suggest that you hold for at least 3 months (and then reassess) before even considering making another reduction and if it was me, I would only be making a small reduction as a test to see how I reacted to it.

 

Please note that I am not posting this with regards to detoxing but it is about how stress affects the body:

 

STRESS

 

Quote from the video:

 

any time that you have a stress response you're  going to decrease repair so basically you can  

defend yourself or you can repair stuff but you can't do both at the same time

 

This is a video about liver detox but the part that I would like to you to watch, and this is where the link begins, is the explanation about stress and the body:

 

Sten Ekberg:  #1 Absolute Best FATTY LIVER DETOX

 

 

[Mezzer]

Thank you I keep forgetting that but will remember 

thanks again for the support. Such a setback 

[Mezzer]

Thank you I keep forgetting that but will remember 

thanks again for the support. Such a setback 

have you guys ever heard of maca? I was taking it prior to Covid and thought it was helping but have stopped after Covid for fear of anxiety 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Mezzer said:

have you guys ever heard of maca?

 

You can find posts by doing a site search.

[Mezzer]

After med drop how long for symptoms to show

 

I just made a med reduction with Prozac I went below 10mgs. How long can it be before I notice an effect? Could it be only 2-3 days? I’m not sure it was the Prozac reduction as a bit of stress popped up A day after my reduction. Stress that can creat a

wave. I was assuming because prozacs long half life it would take

a bit more time. Thank you for the help

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What % reduction did you make?

 

Please simply your drug signature (I suggest that you copy what is already there and paste it into a post in your topic) so that we can easily see the drug names, doses and the dates you started that dose.

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

When a reduction is felt can be different for different people, different drugs, different reduction amounts and at different times during a taper.  Some people do notice a pattern but even then there might be times when it changes a bit.  This is why keep symptom notes for yourself can be helpful so that you can plan your taper around your life.  I usually made my reductions on a weekend; at that time I was not working on a Monday so it gave me 3 days of non-work days.

 

4 hours ago, Mezzer said:

I’m not sure it was the Prozac reduction as a bit of stress popped up A day after my reduction. Stress that can creat a

wave.

 

Two variables, so you cannot know for sure which caused it, but my assumption would be that the stress caused it, especially because of Prozac's very long half life; from my observations it generally take 2-3 weeks for symptoms to appear.

 

[Mezzer]

Thank you CC hoping for the stress as well. 

[Mezzer]

Hi I went from 10 mgs to 7.5mgs. I now know was toooo big. Have moved up to 9mgs. Bought a scale and capsules and am grinding tabs and weighing. 

[Mezzer]

It’s 15 days since my overall drop. Anxiety is a bit paralyzing. Don’t want to leave the house today. Can a 1mg drop from 10mgs of Prozac to 9mgs have such an effect. It feels like when I was CTed off cymbalta 13.5 months ago. Any wisdom would be appreciated thank you 

[ChessieCat]

Please simplify your drug signature, and update it.  Before editing, copy and paste the current one into a post here in your topic, because it contains helpful information; but it is too much for what we need.  The staff do a lot of reading and the idea of the drug signature is so that we can glance to see your drug history and your current drugs and doses.  We need to see drug name, dose and the date that you started taking that dose.  See:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

From what I can see from previous information you have not posted accurate information about your reduction in your last post.  I think you did this, which is a reduction and then an updose:

 

You reduced Prozac from 10mg to 7.5mg 15 days ago and then updosed to 9mg very recently.

 

The information, for both dose changes, needs to be in your drug signature.

 

Prozac has a very long half life and it can take 2-3 weeks for withdrawal symptoms to show up.  If what I wrote above is correct, then the 9mg has not yet build up in your system so your body is still registering the 7.5mg reduction.  Depending on when you updosed to 9mg it could be another 2-3 weeks for it to be at fully strength.  I suggest that you "hang in there" and use Non-drug techniques to cope.  Now is not the time to be messing around with your dose.  You will need to be very patient.

 

See:

 

On 7/3/2011 at 4:11 AM, Altostrata said:

Prozac has the longest half-life of any SSRI. After you take it for a few days, half-life is about 16 days. Fluoxetine itself has a half-life of 2-4 days, but as it is processed, your body creates an active antidepressant metabolite, norfluoxetine, which has a half-life of 7-15 days. So Prozac keeps on extending its half-life as it is metabolized.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoxetine , fluoxetine and norfluoxetine inhibit each other's metabolism, extending the half-life of the drug. Because the half-lives are so long, the full effect of Prozac on the brain may not be felt for several weeks.

[Altostrata]

What has been your Prozac dosing since July? You've been up and down, plus you had covid in August?

[Mezzer]

My Prozac dose since since July has been 12.5mgs. I believe a week before I got Covid I dropped to 10. Got covid aug 3. Stayed on ten until aug 28 and dropped to 7.5 mg. After seven days I received a scale and capsules I purchased and went up to 9 for a more appropriate reduction. I’ve been at 9 to date. I tried to edit my profile but was unsuccessful. I am off the bystolic by way of cleaner eating thanks to the education from sites like this. Thanks alto 

[Altostrata]

On 9/13/2022 at 6:12 PM, Mezzer said:

Hi I went from 10 mgs to 7.5mgs. I now know was toooo big. Have moved up to 9mgs. Bought a scale and capsules and am grinding tabs and weighing. 

 

It appears you've been taking 9mg fluoxetine for about 10 days (?), after going up and down several times. Please stop messing with your drugs. If you do not feel stable, don't reduce the dosage.

[Mezzer]

Needing support

 

After a 13 month situation of being CTed off cymbalta then fast tapering off Nortriptylene and now slower tapering off Prozac I was feeling better. I regained stamina and experienced longer windows so I decided to start doing more strenuous work. I’m a retired builder and took on a small project to feel human again. I  Didn’t realize I could still wear myself out. I’m presently in a rough window with anxiety, low mood, fatigue, blurred vision. I was feeling so good prior to the job I made a 10% med drop which would be 9 days ago. I’m not sure reinstating is the thing to do. On august 3, I got Covid and the day before I had made a drop as well and then made a jump back to where I was. Shortly after that I purchased a scale and capsules and started making my own capsules which helped a lot. How long can I hold out before going back to 9mgs from the 8.1mgs I’m at now. I’m thinking this wave is mostly from stressing myself out physically and some mentally from the little job I took. I felt myself slipping throughout the job but kept pushing to get it done. I dropped my dose the same day I started the job. It was about 6 days after starting the job I started slipping into the wave. I know it’s hard to pinpoint what the cause is. It just seems so hard to get the timing right for reducing. There’s so many variables happening. I’ve also tried to update my introduction but am unable to do it 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[Mezzer]

Title added:  Suffering in a drop

 

Made a drop from 9mgs to 8.2 Prozac and three weeks later got hit hard by darkness, anxiety, fatigue. Tried to keep busy to push it away but has seemed to get more intense the more I keep moving. Should I be waiting longer to reduce. How do you truly know when and what to reduce? It seems the only way to know is to do it but then it may be to late? Feeling really low and confused. I also edited my profile but I don’t see it. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by manymoretodays
Added more, merged to members Introduction

[manymoretodays]

Hi Mezzer, @Mezzer

This is your topic, your Introduction, and the place to post questions around your case,situation.

Your profile is different from the signature that is shown below all your posts.

So, to update your signature with recent changes, use this link:

AccountSettings/signature/update/edits (click on the underlined passage and it should take you to your signature, once updated/edited, be sure to hit the SAVE button at the bottom, so it saves)

 

That's about normal for if and when one would feel the effect of a Prozac drop, as it can take up to 2 weeks in most for it to hit the new steady state, due to it's long and overlapping half life.

 

Is this usual for when you do a 10% reduction?  That symptoms like this set in?

Were you doing pretty well prior to this reduction?

 

You might consider doing <10% for your next taper, when that time comes.  Perhaps that will lessen the WD symptoms that set in.

microtapers or tapering by less than 10%.

 

See:

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Microtapering

(with special attention to the first post there, and you'll see links to other methods of microtapering as well in the first post)

 

1 hour ago, Mezzer said:

How do you truly know when and what to reduce? It seems the only way to know is to do it but then it may be to late? Feeling really low and confused. I also edited my profile but I don’t see it. 

Best is to get familiar with your own personal withdrawal stable.

What is considered stable?

and you'll see a quote there, click on the upper right arrow to read that as well, or here that is again:

Stability

 

You might consider this a Wave and ride it out, using non-drug coping skills the best you can.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Okay and best, keep us updated, post right here in your topic,

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Mezzer]

Yes it can be the same for every drop. The problem is I was kindled a bit then dumped off other meds before the Prozac drops so I’m not 100% sure if I still get withdrawals from the others. Is three weeks to much time for prozac to start affecting me. It does feel chemically induced 

[manymoretodays]

Click on the underlined stability in my previous post, I think that was what you were looking for?

And no, 3 weeks is not too long to feel WD from a drop in dose from.

 

If you can ride the wave, that's good.

 

How long have you had your current WD symptoms for.

And are you able to function okay or fair now, in spite of the symptoms?

[manymoretodays]

What other's are you referring to @Mezzer

If on other drugs now, would you list them by name, dose, and when you take them each day.

Thanks.

[Mezzer]

24 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Click on the underlined stability in my previous post, I think that was what you were looking for?

And no, 3 weeks is not too long to feel WD from a drop in dose from.

 

If you can ride the wave, that's good.

 

How long have you had your current WD symptoms for.

And are you able to function okay or fair now, in spite of the symptoms?

My current withdrawal symptoms have been fourteen months. First being cold turkeyed off cymbalta (I was put on cym for four months) with a bridge of Prozac. Then having Nortriptylene added to the Prozac. After 4 months of that I weened off the Nortriptylene to be left on Prozac in April of 2022. Now weening the Prozac. Is it possible I’m still in withdrawals from the Nortriptylene or the cymbalta while dropping the Prozac ? It’s the morning cortisol spikes (anxiety) that hurt the worst and the fear and intrusive thoughts. 

[Mezzer]

28 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

What other's are you referring to @Mezzer

If on other drugs now, would you list them by name, dose, and when you take them each day.

Thanks.

On Prozac 8.2mgs. That’s it. Supplements like l theanine, omega 3, mag glycinate