Ozanna: withdrawal from Zoloft and Abilify

[mstimc]

Ozanna, I think you're right. I have the same problem, and have it had it since at least my late 20's.  I'm just a light sleeper with a short sleep cycle.  I find using sleep ear buds and e-books is most effective in getting me back to sleep, since it helps prevent the ruminative thought cycle that's common in people with sleep issues. 

[getofflex]

15 hours ago, Ozanna said:

the anxiety and insomnia are classic, textbook symptoms of Abilify withdrawal and because reinstating the Zoloft hasn't completely relieved the symptoms.

Anxiety and insomnia are also classic symptoms of withdrawal and destabilization from Zoloft.  This is why why suggest only quitting drugs one at a time, so we know what is causing what.  A reinstatement will not completely relieve the symptoms - it will just make them more bearable.  Not only that, it takes a while, as in a month or 2, for a reinstatement to take full effect.  There is no quick cure for withdrawal. What is required is time, and patience.  You need to stay on your current drug regimen for a while, and allow your system to stabilize.  You say you wake up every couple of hours during the night.  About how much sleep do you think you are getting at night on average?  

 

Please read these links carefully: 

 

Considerations About Stability - Stop Jumping Around

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

And here is our topic on insomnia. 

 

Withdrawal Insomnia

[Altostrata]

We have seen this kind of disturbed sleep pattern before. See

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

Strange sensations while falling asleep -- surges, zaps, jerks

 

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you. Please let us know how you’re doing.

 

[Ozanna]

I only woke up once last night!  That's the first time I've slept through the night in 3 weeks!  My brain/body is remembering how to sleep!  I'm so happy I'm healing!  

[getofflex]

Ozanna, it sounds as though you are really improving!!  Woohoo!  Please don't be too discouraged if you have some waves of symptoms in the future - this recovery process tends to be up and down (windows and waves).  You are on the right track! 

[mstimc]

Great news Ozanna!  As Getooflex said, you are on the road to recovery!

[Ozanna]

I experienced my first window this week, since my withdrawal started 3 weeks ago, but it only lasted 2 days.  I got one night of sleep after 3 weeks of insomnia and was feeling hopeful.  Then, the insomnia came back.  

 

I have spent the past two days in bed reading the stories of members of this community for hours straight.  There's something I still don't understand that maybe you can help me with.

 

If I had found this community before my taper, then I would have slowly come off my meds one at a time over a long period of time and avoided the withdrawal I'm going through now.  

 

But because I didn't find this community until a couple weeks after my doctor improperly tapered me, I have to go through horrific withdrawal that could last months or years.

 

Why can't I just go back on full doses of both meds and then start the proper taper off them like I should have to start with now that I know better?  Why is it "too late" to go this route?

[getofflex]

3 hours ago, Ozanna said:

Why can't I just go back on full doses of both meds and then start the proper taper off them like I should have to start with now that I know better?  Why is it "too late" to go this route?

Because that would be very risky.  When we go on, off, then back on a drug, there is a risk that our system will not handle the drug as well as it did the first time.  As we go on and off drugs, our nervous systems tend to become destabilized, and hypersensitive.  With kindling, each subsequent withdrawal becomes longer and more severe.  Often people who are kindled take years to recover. You can read about this here: 

 

Kindling

 

 Stories of People Who Kindled But Recovered

[Ozanna]

My provider thinks the solution to my anxiety and insomnia is to put me back on the doses of the meds I just came off of.  She says if they were working for me before, then they will work for me again.  

 

I understand there is a risk of kindling if I reinstate.  But is there also a chance of it working?  And then this nightmare could be over?  Instead of me going through months or years of unnecessary suffering?  

[getofflex]

I cannot predict the future. All I can say is that it would be risky. Doctors solution is almost always to put people back on drugs.  Please read some of the kindling stories in the links I gave you. 

[Shep]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:55 AM, Ozanna said:

I only woke up once last night!  That's the first time I've slept through the night in 3 weeks!  My brain/body is remembering how to sleep!  I'm so happy I'm healing!  

 

5 hours ago, Ozanna said:

I experienced my first window this week, since my withdrawal started 3 weeks ago, but it only lasted 2 days.  I got one night of sleep after 3 weeks of insomnia and was feeling hopeful.  Then, the insomnia came back.  

 

 

Ozanna, it looks like you're stabilizing, but still going through the classic windows and waves. 

 

1 hour ago, Ozanna said:

My provider thinks the solution to my anxiety and insomnia is to put me back on the doses of the meds I just came off of.  She says if they were working for me before, then they will work for me again. 

 

Sounds like she thinks you have a "relapse," but do you think that's true? If you feel that your symptoms are withdrawal, I would take her advice with a lot of skepticism. 

 

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?

 

1 hour ago, Ozanna said:

I understand there is a risk of kindling if I reinstate.  But is there also a chance of it working?  And then this nightmare could be over?  Instead of me going through months or years of unnecessary suffering?  

 

As @getofflex wrote, it would be risky. 

 

Not only is kindling a potential problem, but it's best to only make one change at a time.

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

It takes about 4 days for your nervous system to register a change and it can take a few weeks for your mind/body to acclimate to the change. It's only been 10 days since your last Zoloft dose change and in that time, you've already seen some window activity. That's a great sign of resiliency. 

 

I know you're struggling a lot right now, but I would continue holding at this same dose for a couple of weeks and see how you're doing.

 

Please find some relaxing non-drug coping skills to help you cope with insomnia:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

What time of the day do you take your Zoloft? Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list them. 

[Ozanna]

@ShepWhat time of the day do you take your Zoloft? Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list them. 

 

I take my Zoloft at 8am in the morning.  I just added my supplements to my signature.

 

I've spent the last two days in bed reading the stories of SA members for many hours straight.  I probably overdid it, but I'm just trying to educate myself so I can know what to expect.  It seems most members who are in the boat I'm in (doctor guided rapid taper) suffer for many months or even years before coming out on the other side.  I don't know if I have the strength to survive this torture for that long.  

[Shep]

Quote

Supplements:Omega-3s - 2,000mg x 3 per day, Magnesium glycinate - 200mg, Melatonin - 5mg

 

@Ozanna Thanks for listing your supplements. 5 mg of melatonin is a lot. Please see:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

You may be getting a paradoxical reaction from that much melatonin. Please read over the first post in that link and let us know your thoughts. Do you think it would help to reduce it? How long have you been taking it?

 

3 minutes ago, Ozanna said:

I take my Zoloft at 8am in the morning.

 

Morning is a good time to take Zoloft. What time(s) of the day are you taking your supplements? 

[Ozanna]

@ShepI added the supplements a week ago (didn't write down the dates).  I could try a lower dose of the melatonin.  I was using hydroxizine sporadically to catch some sleep at first, but then I eliminated that and switched to melatonin instead.  I feel the melatonin has helped better than the hydroxizine was, and it doesn't give me the lingering grogginess in the morning that hydroxizine did.  

I take the Magnesium about one hour before bed.  And I take the Omegas spread out morning, afternoon, and evening.

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Ozanna said:

I take the Magnesium about one hour before bed.  And I take the Omegas spread out morning, afternoon, and evening.

 

Do you take the melatonin at the same time as the magnesium? If so, that could make any paradoxical reactions worse - the more you dampen down the brain with sedating drugs or supplements, the more it fights to stay alert. This is the paradoxical reaction. 

 

13 hours ago, Ozanna said:

I could try a lower dose of the melatonin.  I was using hydroxizine sporadically to catch some sleep at first, but then I eliminated that and switched to melatonin instead.

 

That was smart. Melatonin is safer for folks going through withdrawal.

 

Yes, try reducing the melatonin and see how you. Since you only started it a week ago, you could reduce to 0.5 mg. With melatonin, less is more. 

[Ozanna]

17 hours ago, getofflex said:

Because that would be very risky.  When we go on, off, then back on a drug, there is a risk that our system will not handle the drug as well as it did the first time.  As we go on and off drugs, our nervous systems tend to become destabilized, and hypersensitive.  With kindling, each subsequent withdrawal becomes longer and more severe.  Often people who are kindled take years to recover. 

So basically you're telling me I'm *****?  I have no hope?  My only option is to endure this torture for what could take months or years?  

[Shep]

@Ozanna Please see my last post on lowering the melatonin. No one is saying you have no hope. It may take some time and yes, it may be several months for the damage to work its way out, but right now, minimizing your symptoms by tweaking your supplements is a good first start. 

 

By giving you information on kindling, we're trying to keep you from making this worse than it already it is. Right now, you don't know what your baseline is because of the recent trial with hydroxizine and then bringing in a lot of supplements in at one time. Your nervous system needs time to rest. 

 

Many of us go through an anger and a grieving period to deal with this. Here is some information that can help in processing this in a healthy way by avoiding going into emotional spirals. It's okay to be angry and to grieve, but it's also important to bring hope into the equation. To not acknowledge hope is to discredit the many success stories that are out there. 

 

Acceptance and Hope

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

The more you practice techniques like "change the channel," the easier it is to get through these horrific symptoms. It does get better. 

 

This is the hardest thing that many of us go through, but knowing others are going through it with you and that there are many success stories gives us all hope for recovery. 

 

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal

 

 

[mstimc]

Ozanna, to build on Shep's last post, I was once very much in the same place you were.  Although I had brief windows, I didn't seem to be making much progress.  It seemed like others were steadily improving while I was stuck.  It took a change in mindset to help me recover.  I decided I needed to stop asking why this was happening to me, and focus my mental and emotional energy on developing the thoughts and behaviors that would support recovery.  Its natural to wonder "why" and look for clear solutions, but sometimes we have to accept our brains are wired a certain way.  That doesn't mean we're doomed to suffer forever.  It just means we need to work on recovery and managing our thoughts.  For me, it was practicing CBT/ERP.  It wasn't easy and it took time, but just like anything else, the more you practice the better you get at  it.  Don't give up hope.  You can recover.

[Ozanna]

8 hours ago, Shep said:

Do you take the melatonin at the same time as the magnesium? If so, that could make any paradoxical reactions worse - the more you dampen down the brain with sedating drugs or supplements, the more it fights to stay alert. This is the paradoxical reaction. 

@Shepwhen should I take the Magnesium instead?  I usually take it one hour before bed and then the melatonin 30 minutes before bed.  I'm thinking of cutting the melatonin out.  I don't have any problem falling asleep.  My problem is that I wake up every hour or so and then have to try to fall back to sleep all over again numerous times throughout the night.

[Shep]

14 hours ago, Ozanna said:

@Shepwhen should I take the Magnesium instead?  I usually take it one hour before bed and then the melatonin 30 minutes before bed.  I'm thinking of cutting the melatonin out.  I don't have any problem falling asleep.  My problem is that I wake up every hour or so and then have to try to fall back to sleep all over again numerous times throughout the night.

 

Some people like to spread their magnesium out throughout the day. It varies person to person. You can also get magnesium through an epsom salt bath, which can be very relaxing before bed. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

If you don't feel you need the melatonin, it's fine to stop, especially since you haven't been taking it that long. 

 

Sounds like you're getting cortisol spikes. See:

 

Waking with panic or anxiety - managing cortisol spikes

 

The first post in this thread explains why you're having sleep that's interrupted every hour or so:

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Some helpful tips: 

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

 

[Ozanna]

@Shep @Altostrata @getofflex I already know you are going to say be patient and give it time.  But I just need to vent and you are the only people on the planet who I can talk to.  No one in my life understands what I'm going through.

Last night was awful for sleep.  I went to bed at 10pm.  I woke up at midnight.  Went back to sleep.  Woke up again at 2am.  This time couldn't get back to sleep.  I just laid in bed all night waiting for sleep that never came.  I've been suffering from this insomnia for a month now.  

I'm honestly questioning why I reinstated at all.  I thought reinstatement would relieve my symptoms (constant anxiety and insomnia).  But it hasn't relieved either one.  I'm kicking myself because now I'm going through withdrawal AND I'm still on the drug.

I don't know how I am going to survive these symptoms much longer.  HOW do you actually find the inner strength to endure this torture for months or years?  

[Blossom71]

Hi @Ozanna

 

I understand your frustration at having reinstated and are still having horrible anxiety and sleep problems, but I want to say that you have no idea what mess you'd be in if you hadn't reinstated.  That is not in any way to diminish what you are going through at all, just trying to offer a different perspective.

 

3 hours ago, Ozanna said:

I don't know how I am going to survive these symptoms much longer.  HOW do you actually find the inner strength to endure this torture for months or years?  

You will survive.  Just hold on to the fact that you WILL heal.   We are all in the same boat here and have no idea how long it's going to take us, but we will heal.

 

Once you stabilise you'll be able to find a taper rate that suits you, and you won't feel like this forever. 

 

Sending love 😘

[Ozanna]

@Blossom71 thank you for the encouragement.  I have no partner and no children, so sometimes I feel like I have no motivation to keep going.  

[Altostrata]

On 8/2/2022 at 10:45 AM, Ozanna said:

....

The insomnia is still a problem.  I wake up several times during the night each night, but I am able to get back to sleep so I'm getting some sleep.  

....

 

As I understand it, you are getting some sleep but not continuous sleep. Please be aware that people with severe withdrawal often cannot sleep at all for weeks at a time. You are relatively fortunate.

 

It appears reinstatement has been helpful and is following the course of slow re-stabilization that we expect. We have reminded you several times about waves and windows. Do you understand waves and windows, and that it might take some time for your nervous system to settle down?

 

Have you had problems with health anxiety before? See Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

I am sorry you are feeling a little better but not as well as you expected. We cannot work miracles here. Please do not tag me again to vent.

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, Ozanna said:

@Shep @Altostrata @getofflex I already know you are going to say be patient and give it time.  But I just need to vent and you are the only people on the planet who I can talk to.

 

Please note the following:

 

getofflex has this clearly stated in her drug signature:  Please do not tag me, unless it is an urgent question about tapering or reinstatement. 

 

and from What Will Get You Warned or Banned:

 

On 6/16/2011 at 4:45 AM, Altostrata said:

- Overuse of tagging to get reassurance from the staff

Please be aware that the staff is all unpaid volunteers, who often have worries, jobs, families, and health issues of their own. While we do our best to help, none of them can fulfill the role of therapist or social worker. You cannot expect them to fulfill your emotional needs. 

 

If you want to go off psychiatric drugs, you must learn to manage habits of mind that might have led you to seek psychiatric treatment originally. These habits of mind may include: Irrational worrying, health anxiety, perseveration (repeating the same thing over and over again), rumination, inability to make decisions, needing constant reassurance, chronic pessimism, chronic hostility, finding fault with everything.

 

These habits of mind might have caused you a great deal of distress in your life, as well as causing distress to your family, friends, and employers, who may have urged you to seek psychiatric treatment. While we are sympathetic to the pain these problems have caused you, there is no way around your responsibility. If necessary, you may need to engage the services of a psychotherapist or other counselor to learn those self-management skills.

 

The staff here cannot meet the emotional needs that overwhelmed your family, friends, and employers, and it is unfair and exploitative of you to expect them to.

 

[Greatful]

@Ozanna Hi, welcome to SA.  I can so relate to your panic.  I did that winter of 2020-2021 and ended up on more drugs.  I know how hard it is to sit back and wait when all you want to do is feel better.  You will feel better with time.  So many of us are in the same boat from bad advice from our doctor, to fast a taper, try this or that, by that time our bodies are throbbing with energy, our brains in a mass panic, morphed thoughts and fears.  Now all we can do is stop and take a deep breath, assess our situation, research, learn about these drugs, then work on finding a our way out of it,  through coping skills, education, group support here on SA.  It will take a lot of willpower to stop the panic spiral but you can,  you have it in you. 🌞 

 

As you are finding out these drugs are powerful, they change so much in our brains and bodies. Educate Educate Educate.  These drugs are not like taking an aspirin.  You generally can't stop taking it without your brain having to make some changes back to before the drugs.

You will find support here.  I know that doesn't take away from the lonely feelings we can go through at times, but you are not alone.🌞

 

SA has a lot of information listed under their forums section.  

I recommend Baylissa Frederick website. https://mccare.org/  Look under resourses.  Lot's of information and helpful tools.

She is a therapist and she went through protracted withdrawal herself.  I really appreciate her book Recovery and Renewal. 

 

Please keep reaching out. We are here for you🌞

[Ozanna]

@GreatfulThank you so much for your kind words!  Yesterday morning I hit a bottom with my grief and anger over all this.  But I've done a lot of inner work over the past two days, and I realize now that I have to fight for myself!  Because I'm worth it!  I can do this.  I can get through this.  I can't just rollover and give up.  That's not an option. I can do hard things.  

 

Thanks for the recommendation.  I will check out that book.

[mstimc]

2 minutes ago, Ozanna said:

Because I'm worth it!  I can do this.  I can get through this.  I can't just rollover and give up.  That's not an option. I can do hard things.  

Great thought--make that your mantra when things get tough.  You are worth it and you can do it!

[Ariel]

Hello @Ozanna

Just stopping by to introduce myself and say thank you for this beautiful post: 

 

10 minutes ago, Ozanna said:

Thank you so much for your kind words!  Yesterday morning I hit a bottom with my grief and anger over all this.  But I've done a lot of inner work over the past two days, and I realize now that I have to fight for myself!  Because I'm worth it!  I can do this.  I can get through this.  I can't just rollover and give up.  That's not an option. I can do hard things.  

 

Yes you can. 

Yes you're worth it. 

You are very brave and very strong and you matter. 

You got this!

 

Thank you for sharing your moving words.

Your courage is inspiring and helps me, too. 

 

Peace and healing vibes <3

A. 

[Greatful]

@Ozanna  Awesome.  Onward we go. United we Stand.🌞

Please reach out and get some encouragement from others, it's a great way to share  different coping skills, share pain, achievements, or just to feel connected to others going through this.

[Ozanna]

@mstimc @Ariel @Greatful I thought you guys might get a kick out of this:I went to the urgent care this morning because my left ear was blocked and I couldn't hear anything in my left ear.  It started last night.  Of course because of everything I've been going through lately, my mind immediately went to thinking this was a new withdrawal symptom and I am losing my hearing.  Well, they irrigated it and a big chunk of wax fell out that was clogging up the ear canal!  Thank God that's all it was!  I can laugh about it now but last night and this morning I was totally freaking out!

[mstimc]

I'm prone to having excess ear wax, too.  It really does drive you nuts, doesn't it?!  Its great you can laugh at yourself--that's a sign of healing as well!

[Ozanna]

Today marks one month since my withdrawal symptoms began.  I did a rapid taper (thanks to the advice of my doctor) off both Zoloft and Abilify in June.  A few weeks later the withdrawal symptoms started.  I reinstated a much smaller dose of the Zoloft than I had previously been on.  But I didn't reinstate any of the Abilify.  

I now believe my symptoms are so severe because I'm feeling the full brunt of the Abilify withdrawal.  But hopefully the Zoloft reinstatement is mitigating the symptoms somewhat and will continue to do so more and more.

My symptoms are anxiety and insomnia.  The anxiety starts out severe each morning.  Then in the afternoon, it starts to wear off.  And by evening, I don't really even feel it.  I sooooo look forward to the evening time each day!  Somehow I've been able to go to work every day, so that is a blessing.  I'm not sure what I would do if I couldn't work.  I am a single woman and I have no family.

The insomnia is also severe.  I wake up every one to two hours each night.  But I'm usually able to get back to sleep, so I am getting some sleep.  Oh how I miss being able to sleep through the night!  

This first month, I have been through my moments of grief and anger that this is happening to me.  Today, I can say I am at a place of acceptance that this is happening and there is nothing I can do about it except fight for myself and believe that I will get through it.  I believe my brain and body are healing, so I'm trying to give myself the time and space I need to heal.  

I've had a few windows already:I've had a total of 3 days where the anxiety felt minimal, and I've had a total of 2 nights where I slept for something like a 4-5 hour stretch.  These windows give me hope that my body is repairing itself and that I will recover!  

Thank you to everyone who has reached out to help me through this first month.  I'm so lucky I found this website a few days after my withdrawal began.  I couldn't have made it this far without you.

[Shep]

4 hours ago, Ozanna said:

Today, I can say I am at a place of acceptance that this is happening and there is nothing I can do about it except fight for myself and believe that I will get through it.  I believe my brain and body are healing, so I'm trying to give myself the time and space I need to heal.  

I've had a few windows already:I've had a total of 3 days where the anxiety felt minimal, and I've had a total of 2 nights where I slept for something like a 4-5 hour stretch.  These windows give me hope that my body is repairing itself and that I will recover!  

 

I know you're still struggling, Ozanna, but this is a great update. Yes, the windows are definitely a sign of healing. 

[Greatful]

@Ozanna  Wow you  doing pretty well with your CT  and are showing a that healing from these drugs is possible. ☺️ Did you have any trouble when you switched off of Seroquel or Lamictal.  I'm trying to get off of Lamictal too.  As well as others drugs 😓  

 

[Vasherr]

On 8/14/2022 at 2:22 PM, Ozanna said:

Today marks one month since my withdrawal symptoms began.  I did a rapid taper (thanks to the advice of my doctor) off both Zoloft and Abilify in June.  A few weeks later the withdrawal symptoms started.  I reinstated a much smaller dose of the Zoloft than I had previously been on.  But I didn't reinstate any of the Abilify.  

I now believe my symptoms are so severe because I'm feeling the full brunt of the Abilify withdrawal.  But hopefully the Zoloft reinstatement is mitigating the symptoms somewhat and will continue to do so more and more.

My symptoms are anxiety and insomnia.  The anxiety starts out severe each morning.  Then in the afternoon, it starts to wear off.  And by evening, I don't really even feel it.  I sooooo look forward to the evening time each day!  Somehow I've been able to go to work every day, so that is a blessing.  I'm not sure what I would do if I couldn't work.  I am a single woman and I have no family.

The insomnia is also severe.  I wake up every one to two hours each night.  But I'm usually able to get back to sleep, so I am getting some sleep.  Oh how I miss being able to sleep through the night!  

This first month, I have been through my moments of grief and anger that this is happening to me.  Today, I can say I am at a place of acceptance that this is happening and there is nothing I can do about it except fight for myself and believe that I will get through it.  I believe my brain and body are healing, so I'm trying to give myself the time and space I need to heal.  

I've had a few windows already:I've had a total of 3 days where the anxiety felt minimal, and I've had a total of 2 nights where I slept for something like a 4-5 hour stretch.  These windows give me hope that my body is repairing itself and that I will recover!  

Thank you to everyone who has reached out to help me through this first month.  I'm so lucky I found this website a few days after my withdrawal began.  I couldn't have made it this far without you.

 

Just wanted to say hi and tell You that this is a great update, fingers crossed for continuous progress

 

Wishing You a lifelong window

V.