Barbarannamated: pain<-->depression...chicken<-->egg

June 26, 2012

I also missed 2 doses of Klonopin over weekend. Left home without new script. Had crumb of Xanax. I suspect that's not helping my state o mind. Feeling extremely "hung over" from stress and crying and mix of emotions.

I did notice that my eyebrows are growing in after thinning for many years. Maybe the estrogen..? Just trying to find any positives right now.

June 26, 2012

Sorry I don't have anything useful to add. I too understand how being around 'happy' people makes the whole thing much worse. Sorry you're going through a particularly bad time, is there any way you can talk to your mother-in-law more as she seems to be a help? 'Normal' people just don't understand how frightening this is.Your eyebrows are a good thing! I read somewhere that is to do with thyroid function, so maybe that is getting better? Sending you a hug.

about me · June 26, 2012

I also missed 2 doses of Klonopin over weekend. Left home without new script. Had crumb of Xanax. I suspect that's not helping my state o mind. Feeling extremely "hung over" from stress and crying and mix of emotions.

I did notice that my eyebrows are growing in after thinning for many years. Maybe the estrogen..? Just trying to find any positives right now.

HI Barb, I wish there was a magic wand to send your way.. just wave and sparkles fly thru the air to take away all that hurts. Oh how I wish..

Two doses missed in succession? Yes, that could cause problems. If this happened, you would have had rebound insomnia.. did you have trouble sleeping? This would have been a clue that some of your feelings, especially depression could have been related. ~S

Still getting over that near miss from lightening yesterday.. thanks for 'stopping by'.

June 26, 2012

Thanks Schuyler and InNeed.

Having intense anger today from husband and the weekend. I cant describe how it digs to be ignored by husband. He said he told his family that "I think i have brain damage" or something to that effect. Essentially saying that it's my own thought and not confirmed by doctors. I dont talk about "brain damage" so not sure where he got that. He's very aware of the neuroendocrine picture.

The anger is intense!

June 26, 2012

Thanks Schuyler and InNeed.

Having intense anger today from husband and the weekend. I cant describe how it digs to be ignored by husband. He said he told his family that "I think i have brain damage" or something to that effect. Essentially saying that it's my own thought and not confirmed by doctors. I dont talk about "brain damage" so not sure where he got that. He's very aware of the neuroendocrine picture.

The anger is intense!

June 26, 2012

Having intense anger today from husband and the weekend. I cant describe how it digs to be ignored by husband. He said he told his family that "I think i have brain damage" or something to that effect. Essentially saying that it's my own thought and not confirmed by doctors. I dont talk about "brain damage" so not sure where he got that. He's very aware of the neuroendocrine picture.

The anger is intense!

Barbara, please try to keep in mind that your husband is also on psychotropic drugs, and these drugs make a person emotionally dead. He is likely completely unaware of how insensitive he's being and even if he is somewhat aware, there is little he could do about it. I will never forget this horrible effect of antidepressant use.

about me · June 26, 2012

Thanks Schuyler and InNeed.

Having intense anger today from husband and the weekend. I cant describe how it digs to be ignored by husband. He said he told his family that "I think i have brain damage" or something to that effect. Essentially saying that it's my own thought and not confirmed by doctors. I dont talk about "brain damage" so not sure where he got that. He's very aware of the neuroendocrine picture.

The anger is intense!

Barb, I can't help but wonder if he just trapped you into letting him make you into angering.. he told you he said this? Whatever for??? How would he feel were the situation reversed, and you told him you told your Dad (gotta luv that convolution, kinda underscores the point)that he said he had brain damage? Duh? I don't think sooooo.

June 27, 2012

Hey Barb,

I'm so sorry about your hubby ... maybe you should reach out to your MIL and see if she is willing to provide you with some emotional support. You can clarify that you don't have brain damage :unsure: . I also think you need to find a doctor to work with you, perhaps someone outside of your area, someone who doesn't know your dear hubby.

I understand about seeing your nieces and nephews starting out their lives and feeling envy, but you need to just let that go. We all go through that. I see folks in their 30's starting out in their careers in much better positions than I was at that age and I wish I could have done it differently - but I can't. I just have to let it go. I am where I am and I need to do the best I can with what I have - and so do you.

I do think that missing two doses of Klonopin for consecutive days is contributing to your inability to tolerate what is going on around you. But you need to find someone who can be your advocate.

The eyebrows growing back - woohoo! Yep, that's thyroid related! Something is getting better.

Love ya, Barb

June 28, 2012

Thanks everyone and the special hugs If there's one piece of advice I'd give someone it would be dont try this alone, or with a doctor for "support".

Week has been terrible. Fuzzy, cant think straight, anything I attempt to say to husband is met by a blank stare or absolutely no acknowledgment. It's eerie.

MIL is going thru chemo for liver cancer. She's had cancer for 15+ years, lost both breasts. She's really amazing, strong and positive. Opposite of my mother/family. Husband and brother were joking about "if they ever have to put mom and carving nursing home..." knowing full well they wont ever have to b/c there are 4 healthy kids and slew of grandkids to help. That was the last straw at the barbeque before I broke down. I always knew that was in my patents' future and got word that mom got puts bed and fell that day (all ok), but them joking about it sent me over the edge. Ive seen dementia up close in several family members and their friends. It's very scary. My mom has had fluctuating dementia for ~ 10 years. When I see people in their 80-90s who are lucid, it's strange to me.

Rambling again.

June 28, 2012

When will I learn??? Just told a few friends in private online chat that I had brief neurologic event. The therapist in group immediately suggested I go to "a reputable psych hospital for a thorough workup". Argh!!! I intentionally said "neurologic" and still got that response.

June 28, 2012

Thanks everyone and the special hugs If there's one piece of advice I'd give someone it would be dont try this alone, or with a doctor for "support".

Week has been terrible. Fuzzy, cant think straight, anything I attempt to say to husband is met by a blank stare or absolutely no acknowledgment. It's eerie.

MIL is going thru chemo for liver cancer. She's had cancer for 15+ years, lost both breasts. She's really amazing, strong and positive. Opposite of my mother/family. Husband and brother were joking about "if they ever have to put mom and carving nursing home..." knowing full well they wont ever have to b/c there are 4 healthy kids and slew of grandkids to help. That was the last straw at the barbeque before I broke down. I always knew that was in my patents' future and got word that mom got puts bed and fell that day (all ok), but them joking about it sent me over the edge. Ive seen dementia up close in several family members and their friends. It's very scary. My mom has had fluctuating dementia for ~ 10 years. When I see people in their 80-90s who are lucid, it's strange to me.

Rambling again.

I feel for you with your mother-in-law. I lost my father 27 years ago to liver cancer. It was not a pretty sight.

Anyhow, PA is no longer a leader in mental illness care. Effective 1 July, gov Corbett has reduced the budget for mental health by 30%. That means there is no more finding for Warm Lines, no more funding for alternative care, no more funding for peer counseling services. He has now eliminated general assistance. I just got the letter today. Welcome to Pennsylvania, the Alabama of the North.

July 1, 2012

Another thread mentioned "drug- induced SLE" which I, of course, promptly looked up considering the lab results I came across recently showing a FANA PATTERN indicative of lupus (SLE) a few years after beginning Zoloft. Yes, it is associated with DILE - drug-induced lupus erythematosis. It may also explain the very elevated CPK around the same time - lupus pericarditis (heart lining enlargement). I was aware that CPK is a muscle/cardiac enzyme and marker of heart attack (possible). HOW could this have gone completely unnoticed by 2 different doctors when the lab itself flagged it for an auto confirmation?!?

SERTRALINE INDUCED LUPUS ERYTHEMATOSIS http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-internal-medicine/volume-6-number-1/sertraline-induced-systemic-lupus-erythematosus.html

Lupus pericarditis http://lupus.about.com/od/relatedconditions/p/Pericarditis.htm

I realize nothing can be done. I have the body I have now. But if my experience can alert anyone else to the abject stupidity of the medical profession, it's worth telling!

July 3, 2012

Im at about 14 months post Pristiq and REALLY STRUGGLING. Im still on Klonopin and trazodone qhs for bruxism and sleep (started long ago).

I have alot of life stress and medical issues and no support. It's difficult to just make phone calls. I feel paralyzed (mentally) and physically inert most of the time. It's incredibly scary. My husband coexists in same house but won't try to help me find a pdoc. My old one who had me on Vyvanse 70mg bid at one point wont see me. Ive contacted a few docs but no responses. My PCP, endocrinologist, and pain doc wont Rx Vyvanse. I understand that. Im not crazy about being on it, but im completely nonfunctional without. I'm in survival mode right now. Reinstatement with Pristiq is not a consideration. SS/NRIs never worked for me and endocrinologist has explained that serotonin worsened the progression of endocrine pic and likely worsened depression over the years.

I've been homebound for last month or 2. My thinking is extremely cloudy and confused and fluctuates through the day. I have no help and am afraid to go to hospital but I feel like i'm going to end up there.

I'm really scared.

July 3, 2012

Dear Barb,

Hospitalization for fears of self-harm? If so, a resounding yes.

How can we help you, Barb? I PM'd you with a name. I don't know what to think about your husband other than he just does not know what to do.

The Klonopin may or may not be adding to the problems of cog fog. I know it is a tough thing because of the bruxism. Have you given thought as to a harm reduction approach and seeing if a lower dose still controls the bruxing (slow, taper of course).

I know you are frightened especially because it appears your husband is not standing by your side. Is this contributing to your fears? It would be completely reasonable to feel worse if we felt our loved ones were abandoning us in our moment(s) of great need.

Please let us know what we can do to actually help you. Here are some resources I found: My link

How about conferring with Alto's doctor or asking GiaK for the name of her doctor. I have every faith that everyone here will help support you and help you find resources.

(((((((((((((Barb))))))))))))), Please have hope. We are here to help. Many hugs, Annej

July 3, 2012

Anniej,

Thanks. Again.

Not a self harm issue. But with my history, I have tremendous fear that anything will be viewed and treated as psychiatric. Yes, it does have psych-looking manifestations, but the neuroendocrine component is strong. I've never experienced a cognitive state like this. I woke up physically shaking this morning and husband said "NOW what?" (with accompanying roll of the eyes, I'm sure) I hadn't had a cortisol morning in awhile.

I will checkout your link. I can't describe the "frozenness" I'm in. The phone rings, I freeze. Im ok with email and texting.

I am having a hard time describing the way I feel but the terms that keep jumping out at me are autistic, delirium, inability to connect thoughts. All very bizarre.

His mother had a stroke yesterday, so we may head to Vegas today. It will help me to get out of house. I'm not convinced there isnt something toxic in this old house (aside from obvious).

July 3, 2012

I believe you have posted about the neuroendocrine system. Can you attach a link, I cannot find it.

Family members just don't know what to do with us, especially when it looks like "psych" (why this should be treated differently, I don't know).

Have you had an indepth neurological consult? I just had mine. It was about 2 hours long.

What are your thoughts about the Klonopin? Do you think there is anything causal?

I am sorry to hear your your husband's aunt's stroke and agree that it will be good to get out. Hugs, Annej

July 3, 2012

Hi Barb,

Im so sorry to hear your latest update my friend, you have been very supportive to all here, and i would like to help you through this, i know what it feels like to feel unsupported by people who care for you -------maybe hubby doesnt fully understand just how much suffering you have been through, i know its hard for them too, especially when docs have little idea.

But no matter, all of us here, are here for you.

Altos doc maybe able to help you Barb, he sounds like he really understands this wd crap.

I wish i could say something or do something to help make you feel better, i know how it feels to be in that p;it of despair and not know where to turn for the right kind of help, i do hope that you get some relief soon i really do.

Healing thoughts, prayers and my very best wishes to you for some speedy relief or help of some kind soon, hang in there honey, something good will come of this, things can and will turn around soon for you ((((( hugs ))))) xxx

July 3, 2012

Thanks, my friends.

Thing is, he has many colleagues he could call, but won't. Must be some MD pride thing.

If you want decent healthcare, don't marry a doctor.

about me · July 3, 2012

Thanks, my friends.

Thing is, he has many colleagues he could call, but won't. Must be some MD pride thing.

If you want decent healthcare, don't marry a doctor.

Hugs Barb, I'm so sorry this is all coming down so hard on you. It must be very hard to have him refuse to call anyone. Hang in there, you will get things sorted out. Warm thoughts, ~S

July 3, 2012

No answers Barb, but I so understand where you're at. The frozen thing especially.

I still miss my wonderful horrible prescription amphetamines too. Many times I've considered going back on a small dose, just to see if it would help...but have resisted thus far.

How long have you been on the Klonopin? Has your dose remained the same?

Hugs to you, my dear. You've been through so much, and I admire your strength and courage.

Sparrow

July 3, 2012

I've been homebound for last month or 2. My thinking is extremely cloudy and confused and fluctuates through the day. I have no help and am afraid to go to hospital but I feel like i'm going to end up there.

I'm really scared.

hey barb,

I really know relate to what you're saying. My struggles have been similar though I'm more exhausted than anxious lately.

But it's been hard. I rarely talk to anyone and few even know what I'm going through.

I am so sorry things are so tough today. You are an amazing person, barb. You've endured some bad breaks over the years and are in a tough spot, but you're also very brave, strong, loving, and helpful to so many of us.

In my experience, nothing lasts forever, especially feelings. I know there are better days ahead for you barb.

By hospital do you mean psychiatric hospital? I'd resist the temptation. They can take away your fear with Drugs but only temporarily and, as you know, at a cost.

One thing that has worked for me, at least for anxiety is niacinamide. The problem with it is that at anxiety doses it can be a bit hard on the liver. I read some interesting stuff just googling niacinamide+anxiety ...but, again, I'm not a doctor and don't fully understand the risks.

Love ya, barb, hang in there.

July 3, 2012

NO WAY to psych hospital! I see absolutely zero use there. They are responsible for the mess I am today.

The stuff ive been experiencing especially in last week+ seems more neuro - fluctuating 'consciousness', very erratic vision, trouble reading and concentrating, difficulty using phone/computer, different head/neckache. I had that 'episode' ("febrile-ish hallucination) week and half ago and havent felt same since. I don't dare go to ER and utter the term 'hallucination' even though I had them regularly as kid and nobody thought "psychosis". It was thought to be 'normal' back in the day, although that's a tad concerning. Maybe that's why kids are on antipsychotics at 5 yo nowadays.

And there's always Stress.

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate you all so very much.

Link to Psychoneuroendocrinology

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2545-psychoneuroendocrinology-endocrine-psychiatry/page__pid__25593#entry25593

I only like this person's perspective because it is a neuroendocrine focus and NOT psychiatry. I, personally, believe that all that is called "Psychiatry" is an interface of neuroendocrine dysfunction (of which I have a BOATLOAD) and psychological factors (of which I have several BOATLOADS). I suspect many of us do as most of these drugs are hormone disruptors and mess with the HPA axis.

B

July 3, 2012

NO WAY to psych hospital! I see absolutely zero use there. They are responsible for the mess I am today.

The stuff ive been experiencing especially in last week+ seems more neuro - fluctuating 'consciousness', very erratic vision, trouble reading and concentrating, difficulty using phone/computer, different head/neckache. I had that 'episode' ("febrile-ish hallucination) week and half ago and havent felt same since. I don't dare go to ER and utter the term 'hallucination' ....

I think this is good judgment on your part.

It's just a crap situation. I'm sorry this is happening to you, Barb.

I wish I knew the answer.

July 3, 2012

I'm so sorry you're feeling so bad, Barb. Wish I had some good advice other than to agree that staying away from the psych hospital is extremely important. I can just see them loading you up with more drugs and making things even worse.

July 3, 2012

Barbara I feel with you. And we all know here that a psych ward is the last place to get recognition and probably will result in drugging again. And even worse, being labeled as stubbirn or with some new psychiatric "disease" when you resist to take new pills.

I had the hardest WD possible I guess, after my c/t from Paxil it took 18 months to experience a first window. For the worst cases it can take years to heal, I am now at 4.5 years and a lot better but not there yet. Please keep off the drugs and give it more time. I udnerstand your husband is a doctor, has he any clue of WD? Did he read some of the work of Healy, Breggin and the others? Or the Wikipedia page of Venlafaxine (which is almost the same as PRistic but much more prescibed so lots more experiences similar to yours).

I wish you all strength to overcome this extremely difficult period!

July 3, 2012

Barb this breaks my heart...14 months off Pristiq is still in the WD range for that drug and most others too. So it may still be part of the mix in regards to what you are going thru.

If you feel that you need to go to the hospital, do not mention hallucinations, I agree with that. They do not seem to be able to distinguish between neuro and psychiatric issues.

I am sorry but I don't know anything about the neuro endocrine system. Can your symptoms be from this coupled with the Pristiq WD? It might be.

I wish there was something that I knew of that you could take to relieve all of this suffering.

Hugs

Nikki

July 4, 2012

Note to anyone reading this... I found this site after I tapered off of Pristiq very sloppily and too fast. I got thru the tapering ok (~8 months), but was hit with Protracted Withdrawal after being off for several months. It has been UNLIKE (worse than) any time pre-drug or during drug.

RE: hospital. It was suggested by non-medical person that I go in to medical hospital to get the endocrine testing completed and stabilized, eating properly, etc. But that doesnt happen on inpatient medical ward as far as I know. Temporary Assisted Living (or similar) also considered, but no insurance for that. There really are no options for medical rehab at younger ages. If anyone knows of options for me at this point, please let me know! I'm considering some homecare or meal service b/c I am not eating regularly or healthy. Im in a rural atea with nothing but pizza delivery available. I ate much better in earlier minths of withdrawal because I could order delivery to hotel room. Husband and I don't eat together.

Dr. Giovanna Fava and his wife wrote about rehabilitation for endocrine patients. This article was for patients who HAD been treated properly. It doesn't address un/misdiagnosed and untreated cases. I think this concept would apply to psych drug withdrawal.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2328-sonino-2007-rehabilitation-in-endocrine-patients-a-novel-psychosomatic-approach/page__pid__23071#entry23071

"Long-standing endocrine disorders may imply a degree of irreversibility of the pathological process and induce highly individualized affective responses. The psychosocial impairment that is associated with incomplete remission from endocrine illness suggests the need for an innovative approach to treatment, introducing in clinical endocrinology the concept of rehabilitation, which in other fields of medicine is already established. This new proposal stems from a number of unresolved issues related to the high prevalence of psychosocial impairment in patients adequately treated for various endocrine conditions. Indeed, rehabilitation in endocrinology may be indicated in the following cases: (a) delayed recovery after appropriate treatment b. discrepancy between endocrine status and current functioning; © presence of a decline in physical and social functioning; (d) persistence of important comorbidity, with special reference to psychiatric disturbances; (e) assessment of abnormal illness behavior; (f) problems with lifestyle and risk behavior, and (g) potential role of stress in endocrine disturbances. The endocrine rehabilitation team should ideally include a trained clinical endocrinologist, a physical therapist and a psychologist, with opportunities for other specialist consultations. The goal of such service would be to ensure education, support and specific interventions, helping the patient and his/her family to achieve optimal coping with the difficulties of the recovery process. Due to its comprehensive psychosomatic characterization, this new approach would likely increase the chances of obtaining full recovery in a significant proportion of patients and has the potential of being cost-effective."

July 4, 2012

I had the hardest WD possible I guess, after my c/t from Paxil it took 18 months to experience a first window. For the worst cases it can take years to heal, I am now at 4.5 years and a lot better but not there yet. Please keep off the drugs and give it more time. I udnerstand your husband is a doctor, has he any clue of WD? Did he read some of the work of Healy, Breggin and the others? Or the Wikipedia page of Venlafaxine (which is almost the same as PRistic but much more prescibed so lots more experiences similar to yours).

I wish you all strength to overcome this extremely difficult period!

Thank you, Claudius. I know you've had a horrid time and I so appreciate your encouragement! Can you describe your window at 18 months? That gives me hope!

Husband is also very drugged - on more pmeds than I ever was at once although no "mood stabilizers" (anticonvulsant or antipsychotics). So, it's complicated. He did do a quick taper off of Effexor and aside from a few weeks of mood lability, seems to be "ok" albeit "spellbound" per Breggin. He had benzo, z sleeper, stimulant, and Wellbutrin to cushion the Effexor taper. He's slowly realizing the fraud of the "science" behind psychiatry. He still goes to my x pdoc. A tangled web.

Thanks, Claudius. I still remember your use of term "Spychiatry". I think you said it was a typo, but I love it!

about me · July 4, 2012

Get the endocrine testing completed and stabilized, eating properly, etc. But that doesnt happen on inpatient medical ward as far as I know.

You had written some good things about the neuroendocriologist or so I recall.. he is not so helpful now.., Gosh, not good. I really do think you need an advocate, the problem is you don't need one who will cave to the perspective of the medico types who are not assisting you now (I'm not meaning your hus..)

Food.. are you near enough to a supermarket to have food delivered? The markets are great about this in my area but I don't know how the delivery part would be in a rural area. ~S

July 4, 2012

Nope - no food/grocery delivery aside from the service thru the homecare agency. I called around awhile ago. No restaurants deliver aside from pizza. I'm not that far away - 10 minutes or so, but it's a tiny town with extended families and heavy church influence, neither of which I am a part of. Ended up here for horse land. It's not a place people move TO.

I'm not starving; I'm just not eating regularly or healthy. I don't mean to give a drastic impression. Ive considered using the services of the agency, but then berate myself ("you're not SICK. Those services are for people who are REALLY SICK..."). I'm a master of mindgames. Husband does buy groceries, but "not like I buy groceries". He buys stuff for a few days; I buy for weeks when I do get out. We have an extra freezer.

Regarding the endocrinologist... I doubt he knows what to do with me as far as services. He is in Orange County where everything is available (food delivery, etc). I'm "married", so not REALLY alone or on my own. I've read that my segment of the population does fall thru the cracks. There are plenty of services and housing for "elderly" but with age limits.

I must get better! I smell a business opportunity.

July 9, 2012

Having hatd time. Ran out of estrogen patch and really feeling it. Dont have refills.

Found a few of the bad trazodone (diff manufacturer). Haven't had Vyvanse in awhile. Must try to get to Urgent Care tomorrow. Just havent had energy to find a doc.

July 9, 2012

Hi Barb,

I hope you feel better real soon. Being w/o meds is not a good thing for sure. Thinking of you my friend.

July 9, 2012

Thanks, Tezza.

July 10, 2012

Made it to Urgent Care and got scripts for estrogen patch and trazodone. I'm extremely weak - difficult being upright for more than 30 minutes or so. I've been typing from phone in bed for month or so. I feel very unwell.

July 10, 2012

Yikes, Barb - we need to get you at least somewhat well here soon! Perhaps you will feel better after you get back on the estrogen patch.

Keep us posted.

Love ya,

Karma

July 10, 2012

Oh gosh barb!

Hope you feel better soon x

Hugs

Barbarannamated: pain<-->depression...chicken<-->egg

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