DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[Waterfall]

I hear ya, Dave. 

I find the hardest is always to feel worse again, after feeling better.  

I wish that I could take the struggle of this week away for you.  

But it's just like a friend of mine recently told me, 

"I can't fix it for you, but what I can do, is walk beside you through it."  

 

Sometimes, I wish that it would just slowly but steadily improve, 

instead of this waves and windows. 

Because then we wouldn't have to go from feeling kinda okay, 

to feel so lousy again.  

 

But if it did, then the path would seem so unending, unrelenting. 

A long line of unbroken suffering.  

So hard as it is, I'm glad I don't have to take all the worst stuff all together in a row. 

I'm glad that I get breaks.  

That remind me what it is to feel better.  

To feel almost, kinda... normal.  

And when I hit a wave again, I try rememeber. 

It was better.  

So it can be again.  

 

Remember Saturday.  

Remember how you felt.  

And now look forward...

You -will- feel that way again. 

 

Others have walked this path.  

They have reached a brighter road.  

So we can do it to. 

You.  Rosetta.  Me.  Hazel.  

All those of us walking this rocky patch right now.  

The ones I know, and the ones I don't.  

We will see sunnier days. 

We will walk smoother paths.  

 

Our paths may look similar.  

They may all look different.  

There will be hard days ahead. 

Or hours.  

Or minutes.  

But there will be easier ones too.  

 

Wishing you strength and patience Dave.  

Strength.  And patience.  

And hope.  

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, Hazel said:

I’ve really been struggling again today.  The anxiety has been almost constant.  I’m so sorry you are struggling too.  This whole process is just so hard-especially when people around you have no idea what this is like.  I am at work today putting on a happy face but feel awful.  I keep telling myself it is withdrawal and it will pass.  

Do you have to work today or can you take some time off?  Remember to be gentle with yourself and do what you need to do to take care of yourself.  I am here if you need to vent-I know how lonely this can feel.

Have you ever taken benzos? I am wondering about taking klonopin for a little bit to help me through some of this. Anxiety is just relentless right now and I am not sure how else to get through it. 

[wildchild93]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

Have you ever taken benzos? I am wondering about taking klonopin for a little bit to help me through some of this. Anxiety is just relentless right now and I am not sure how else to get through it. 

Why would you want to try klonopin now? Do you feel like the anxiety has gotten worse in the last 3 months? 

[Hazel]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

Have you ever taken benzos? I am wondering about taking klonopin for a little bit to help me through some of this. Anxiety is just relentless right now and I am not sure how else to get through it. 

Yes I have.  I used to be able to handle an occasional lorazepam, but it ended up turning on me and I got really bad anxiety after taking it so threw them out.  I hate to admit it, but I got desperate on Monday and took some old Xanax that I had to get some relief and it did make me sleepy.  I think that is why I had a bad day today-bad reaction from the Xanax.  So, it may be okay at first, but I think there’s a good chance you could end up having a bad reaction-it seems to be pretty common.

[DaveB]

9 minutes ago, wildchild93 said:

Why would you want to try klonopin now? Do you feel like the anxiety has gotten worse in the last 3 months? 

 

Right now, today, it feels as bad or worse than 3 months ago. A week ago I didn't think there was any chance I could say something like that. I have just hit a point where I am not sure how much longer I can keep plugging away without feeling definitively better. 

[wildchild93]

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

Right now, today, it feels as bad or worse than 3 months ago. A week ago I didn't think there was any chance I could say something like that. I have just hit a point where I am not sure how much longer I can keep plugging away without feeling definitively better. 

It helped me get through some of my worst days when I had no idea what was going on with me. I didn’t have any bad reactions to it. Stuff really works. However,  you can become dependent on it very quickly (even klonopin with the longer half life) so just be very careful whatever you decide. I experienced rebound anxiety around a certain time of day when I was taking 0.5mg every night to sleep. I eventually was able to wean myself off of it (much easier than the AD because I hadn’t been taking it as long) but still went through some rough withdrawl stuff most times when a I made a reduction in the dosage. The withdrawl symptoms felt different than the AD withdrawl (although some symptoms overlapped).

[brassmonkey]

Dave-- we really recommend that you don't try this.  It may give a couple of days relief, but you are buying a whole lot of trouble by doing so.  Benzos are effective for about two weeks, a little longer than it takes to become addicted to them.  After that all they are good for is reducing the symptoms of the addiction.  Even with intermittent use they are very rapidly addicting and then require a very slow and very controlled taper to get off of.  They are nothing to be taken lightly.

 

From reading through your thread I can see that you were having steady improvement in your stabilization and then a week or so it all went south.  This is the classic signature of a wave, including the feeling that it is a hopeless situation and will never end.  Even if the symptoms are bad, if they are not debilitating as in you're bedridden and need to be hospitalized, then it is not worth the mental, physical and monetary expense to get tangled up with benzos.  Please use your toolkit, regroup and ride this out. To do anything else would be a major setback of many months for your stability.

[Hazel]

How are you doing Dave?  Things getting any better?

[DaveB]

26 minutes ago, Hazel said:

How are you doing Dave?  Things getting any better?

 

Yesterday I worked out in the morning, and I think that helped I did ok yesterday. Today has been pretty bad again...I just don't know what the heck happened this week. I did not think feeling this bad was even possible anymore, I am truly ALMOST as bad as I have even been. How are you doing?

[DaveB]

On 4/20/2018 at 12:31 PM, brassmonkey said:

Dave-- we really recommend that you don't try this.  It may give a couple of days relief, but you are buying a whole lot of trouble by doing so.  Benzos are effective for about two weeks, a little longer than it takes to become addicted to them.  After that all they are good for is reducing the symptoms of the addiction.  Even with intermittent use they are very rapidly addicting and then require a very slow and very controlled taper to get off of.  They are nothing to be taken lightly.

 

From reading through your thread I can see that you were having steady improvement in your stabilization and then a week or so it all went south.  This is the classic signature of a wave, including the feeling that it is a hopeless situation and will never end.  Even if the symptoms are bad, if they are not debilitating as in you're bedridden and need to be hospitalized, then it is not worth the mental, physical and monetary expense to get tangled up with benzos.  Please use your toolkit, regroup and ride this out. To do anything else would be a major setback of many months for your stability.

 

Sorry brassmonkey, of course you are right. Not sure what I was thinking with the benzo, I am just kind of desperate. Do benzos really quit working after 2 weeks? I had never heard that before. This wave has just been a really bad one, I feel like not only am I as bad I as was 3 months ago, but may not be any better than I was a year ago. This has been very discouraging, and I am not sure I am headed in the right direction. I am trying to ride it out and look for better days ahead, I just want to feel better! 

[Hazel]

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Yesterday I worked out in the morning, and I think that helped I did ok yesterday. Today has been pretty bad again...I just don't know what the heck happened this week. I did not think feeling this bad was even possible anymore, I am truly ALMOST as bad as I have even been. How are you doing?

So sorry to hear things are still not good.  Hang in there and remind yourself this will pass.  Being in a wave is the most horrible and scary thing to endure, but you’ve made it through before and you will make it again.  Glad to see you have decided against the benzos-good call.  I hope things start improving for you very soon.

I have been doing better the last two days, so we’ll see how things go.  It’s hard to feel confident in feeling good after feeling so awful only a few days ago.  

Keep us updated on your progress😊 

[DaveB]

20 minutes ago, Hazel said:

So sorry to hear things are still not good.  Hang in there and remind yourself this will pass.  Being in a wave is the most horrible and scary thing to endure, but you’ve made it through before and you will make it again.  Glad to see you have decided against the benzos-good call.  I hope things start improving for you very soon.

I have been doing better the last two days, so we’ll see how things go.  It’s hard to feel confident in feeling good after feeling so awful only a few days ago.  

Keep us updated on your progress😊 

 

Exactly, confidence in feeling good is almost non-existent now. If I can go from where I was a week ago to where I have been this week, then it can all flip so fast I just can't have any confidence in progress towards recovery. I am VERY happy you have been doing better the last two days, that makes me happy for you and gives me some hope. 

[Rosetta]

Remember that when you are in a wave all seems hopeless.  Ignore that feeling!  As Brassmonkey says, your thoughts are unwelcome visitors, and your mind is not a hotel!!  You won't have that hopelessness in a window.  In a window you are real, and your thoughts are real.  They are not in a wave.

 

Rosetta

[DaveB]

10 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Remember that when you are in a wave all seems hopeless.  Ignore that feeling!  As Brassmonkey says, your thoughts are unwelcome visitors, and your mind is not a hotel!!  You won't have that hopelessness in a window.  In a window you are real, and your thoughts are real.  They are not in a wave.

 

Rosetta

 

Thanks Rosetta, I am trying, but it is really hard. I have been pretty much getting worse everyday since last Sunday. Makes it hard to just “get through the day” when you know that the next day keeps getting worse. Unfortunately this steady decline this week has been the only thing that has been linear this entire time.

[Rosetta]

I'm sorry, Dave.  I've been in that state just recently.  I wish I could fix it for you.  I'm just getting by hour by hour trying to ignore the anxiety.  I know it will get better.  These rough patches eventually end.  They are very hard to deal with.  The second fear is so easy to fall into to.

 

I know it seems that there is not much you can do, but having something to do about it can sometimes give you a goal and that might make you feel less hopeless?

 

Are you eating enough?  Are you eating enough protein and vegetables?  I feel that low blood sugar has a lot to do with the anxiety.  

 

Can you avoid sugar?  I assume the Dr Pepper is long gone.  

 

Do you take magnesium?  I think I need to take more.

 

Maybe these are things you can focus on instead of the fear?

 

Rosetta

 

 

[DaveB]

18 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I'm sorry, Dave.  I've been in that state just recently.  I wish I could fix it for you.  I'm just getting by hour by hour trying to ignore the anxiety.  I know it will get better.  These rough patches eventually end.  They are very hard to deal with.  The second fear is so easy to fall into to.

 

I know it seems that there is not much you can do, but having something to do about it can sometimes give you a goal and that might make you feel less hopeless?

 

Are you eating enough?  Are you eating enough protein and vegetables?  I feel that low blood sugar has a lot to do with the anxiety.  

 

Can you avoid sugar?  I assume the Dr Pepper is long gone.  

 

Do you take magnesium?  I think I need to take more.

 

Maybe these are things you can focus on instead of the fear?

 

Rosetta

 

 

 

Thanks Rosetta, I have decided I am choosing to focus on eating right and being as healthy as I can rather than focusing on the fear. It is hard but I am trying. I was really struggling yesterday morning, but then I went for a long walk with my kids and felt much better. This morning was my best in a few days so at least I have broken the spiral feeling of everything just getting worse and worse. Maybe coming out of the wave? I sure hope so as this has been a bad one!

[Rosetta]

I hope so, Dave. When the waves are long that take a lot out of us.  Be gentle with yourself today.  Don't try to make up for lost time or do double duty.  Slow and steady.

[RachelSusan]

Dave,

The waves are truly terrible. I'm hoping that this week brings you some relief.

RS

[DaveB]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:02 PM, Rosetta said:

 

Can you avoid sugar?  I assume the Dr Pepper is long gone.  

 

 

It is actually back, I know it probably isn't good long term, but I feel better after drinking it. Like much better almost normal for a few hours, then...not so much. I love those few hours and it helps keep me going in the morning. I don't know, maybe it makes me more up and down, but I really didn't feel any better the few weeks I went without. Had a pretty good day yesterday, but now not so much. I am tired, frustrated and out of answers. I may need to talk to my doctor, I REALLY don't want to change anything, but I just feel that what I am doing is simply not working. I have been almost 4 months of holding now and I am just not getting the positive results I was expecting from this hold. 

 

Also, is it time to ditch the multivitamin? Don’t many people find multivitamins bad in withdrawal? I currently take multivitamin with fish oil, magnesium, and vitamin d

[DaveB]

On 4/19/2018 at 2:04 PM, Waterfall said:

I hear ya, Dave. 

I find the hardest is always to feel worse again, after feeling better.  

I wish that I could take the struggle of this week away for you.  

But it's just like a friend of mine recently told me, 

"I can't fix it for you, but what I can do, is walk beside you through it."  

 

Sometimes, I wish that it would just slowly but steadily improve, 

instead of this waves and windows. 

Because then we wouldn't have to go from feeling kinda okay, 

to feel so lousy again.  

 

But if it did, then the path would seem so unending, unrelenting. 

A long line of unbroken suffering.  

So hard as it is, I'm glad I don't have to take all the worst stuff all together in a row. 

I'm glad that I get breaks.  

That remind me what it is to feel better.  

To feel almost, kinda... normal.  

And when I hit a wave again, I try rememeber. 

It was better.  

So it can be again.  

 

Remember Saturday.  

Remember how you felt.  

And now look forward...

You -will- feel that way again. 

 

Others have walked this path.  

They have reached a brighter road.  

So we can do it to. 

You.  Rosetta.  Me.  Hazel.  

All those of us walking this rocky patch right now.  

The ones I know, and the ones I don't.  

We will see sunnier days. 

We will walk smoother paths.  

 

Our paths may look similar.  

They may all look different.  

There will be hard days ahead. 

Or hours.  

Or minutes.  

But there will be easier ones too.  

 

Wishing you strength and patience Dave.  

Strength.  And patience.  

And hope.  

 

Thanks Waterfall, this was a great comfort for me. 

[Hazel]

Hi Dave,

sorry to hear you are not doing well again today.  You are definitely not alone as I have not been doing well the last few days.  I am also very tired and frustrated and don’t know what to do anymore either.  I just feel like crying right now.  I’m trying to believe this will pass, but it’s getting harder as this wave goes on.  I hope things turn around for us very soon-it has to at some point.

[DaveB]

31 minutes ago, Hazel said:

Hi Dave,

sorry to hear you are not doing well again today.  You are definitely not alone as I have not been doing well the last few days.  I am also very tired and frustrated and don’t know what to do anymore either.  I just feel like crying right now.  I’m trying to believe this will pass, but it’s getting harder as this wave goes on.  I hope things turn around for us very soon-it has to at some point.

 

I am with you Hazel, I am so sorry! I am just as lost as you! At some point it has to change, I probably need to quit the caffeine again.

[Waterfall]

18 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks Waterfall, this was a great comfort for me. 

 

You're welcome, Dave.

 

May we all see better days soon. 

And when we don't, may we stay strong, to hold out for those better days yet to come. 

 

[Waterfall]

16 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

I am with you Hazel, I am so sorry! I am just as lost as you! At some point it has to change, I probably need to quit the caffeine again.

 

I am with you too.  I'm also having a rough week.  

Isn't it so frustrating when it feels like there should be a reason, but we don't know what it is?  

Is it the caffeine?  Is it this stressor?  Or that one?  Am I doing something wrong?  

I always struggle with these questions.  Am I doing the right thing right now?  

Or am I bringing this on myself by doing the wrong things? 
Is there anything else I can do to make this better?  

 

If only the answers were easier to find. 

And the good days, faster in coming.  

 

I have to remind myself too, that it's not always something we do, or don't do. 

A pattern of waves and windows, is normal.  And it takes time.  Lots of time. 

So we have to hold steady.  And wait.  

And that's hard.  

But trying to mess with things too much, is only going to make things harder.  

At least.  I think so.  

Just thoughts from someone else who's trying to figure it all out too.  

 

[DaveB]

4 minutes ago, Waterfall said:

 

I am with you too.  I'm also having a rough week.  

Isn't it so frustrating when it feels like there should be a reason, but we don't know what it is?  

Is it the caffeine?  Is it this stressor?  Or that one?  Am I doing something wrong?  

I always struggle with these questions.  Am I doing the right thing right now?  

Or am I bringing this on myself by doing the wrong things? 
Is there anything else I can do to make this better?  

 

If only the answers were easier to find. 

And the good days, faster in coming.  

 

I have to remind myself too, that it's not always something we do, or don't do. 

A pattern of waves and windows, is normal.  And it takes time.  Lots of time. 

So we have to hold steady.  And wait.  

And that's hard.  

But trying to mess with things too much, is only going to make things harder.  

At least.  I think so.  

Just thoughts from someone else who's trying to figure it all out too.  

 

 

Love your thoughts and thank you! Good times are coming, we just need to hold on!

[Rosetta]

Hi, Dave,

 

I think getting rid of the caffeine is important.  The sugar, too, but I still have it in my decaf coffee.  I understand that Dr P makes you feel better right after you drink it.  That's the way addiction works psychologically.  

 

I have read that multivitamins are a no-no in WD, and that makes sense.  

 

If only I could take all your anxiety away!

 

-R

[DaveB]

18 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Hi, Dave,

 

I think getting rid of the caffeine is important.  The sugar, too, but I still have it in my decaf coffee.  I understand that Dr P makes you feel better right after you drink it.  That's the way addiction works psychologically.  

 

I have read that multivitamins are a no-no in WD, and that makes sense.  

 

If only I could take all your anxiety away!

 

-R

 

Yeah I agree. Even though it does help right away, I think reintroducing the Dr Pepper may have been what threw me into this wave. I was doing pretty well and really hadn't changed anything else so it makes sense. Maybe I should cut the multivitamin too? I have just always taken it before and now after this withdrawal hit, but maybe it is hurting me in stabilizing? I don't know, another REALLY bad morning today. I may talk to my doctor and see what he thinks I should do. 4 months into holding I am not sure this is the answer, I am not getting better.

[RachelSusan]

Dave,

I read on this site that some of the B vitamins can stimulate the CNS. You may want to check that out as well. Sometimes though it is a combination of things or nothing at all, we just don't know. Of course we all do our best to minimize things that may activate the symptoms. Good luck with your recovery.

RS

[DaveB]

13 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

Dave,

I read on this site that some of the B vitamins can stimulate the CNS. You may want to check that out as well. Sometimes though it is a combination of things or nothing at all, we just don't know. Of course we all do our best to minimize things that may activate the symptoms. Good luck with your recovery.

RS

Good to know, thanks Rosetta! I need the luck, how long did it take you to stabilize when it all went south? What did you find helpful? I am just kind of losing hope here.

[RachelSusan]

I went cold turkey in June or July of 2016.  Reinstated at end of July 2016, it took me about a month to come up from the very bottom, but it took me 5 or 6 months to somewhat stabilize.  By bottom I mean laying on bathroom floor feeling like I was going to pass out. My doctor also had me tapering during that 5 to 6 month period, I should never had done that. After I stabilized for real I had some great periods and some months that were bad, but never as bad as the cold turkey. I had one period from August 2017 to November 2017 that was difficult but again, not as bad as the cold turkey. It has been a long road but I have also had some months that felt real good. The only thing that worked for me was to not change anything for long periods of time, which I know you are already doing.  I wish I had a magic wand and could make your suffering go away. Dave, I was really bad, I mean was going from moment to moment, spending hours in a bathtub, then moving from there to the shower.  Shaking, sweating, the room continuously moving around me, the works.  I'm only telling you this so that you know you can go from really really bad to normal. I just wish you could go to normal now, I wish I could tell you how to do that.  Hang in there buddy. There is hope, I am living proof.  There is hope.

RS

[DaveB]

12 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

I went cold turkey in June or July of 2016.  Reinstated at end of July 2016, it took me about a month to come up from the very bottom, but it took me 5 or 6 months to somewhat stabilize.  By bottom I mean laying on bathroom floor feeling like I was going to pass out. My doctor also had me tapering during that 5 to 6 month period, I should never had done that. After I stabilized for real I had some great periods and some months that were bad, but never as bad as the cold turkey. I had one period from August 2017 to November 2017 that was difficult but again, not as bad as the cold turkey. It has been a long road but I have also had some months that felt real good. The only thing that worked for me was to not change anything for long periods of time, which I know you are already doing.  I wish I had a magic wand and could make your suffering go away. Dave, I was really bad, I mean was going from moment to moment, spending hours in a bathtub, then moving from there to the shower.  Shaking, sweating, the room continuously moving around me, the works.  I'm only telling you this so that you know you can go from really really bad to normal. I just wish you could go to normal now, I wish I could tell you how to do that.  Hang in there buddy. There is hope, I am living proof.  There is hope.

RS

 

Thanks for your story, it is very encouraging! I went cold turkey in November of 2016 and haven't been the same since. It has been such a long hard road!

[DaveB]

Just a real tough grind it out day today, it has just been really hard. Hoping that it is due to being the 1st day with no Dr Pepper again (last time I quit I had a couple of rough days before some good improvement). I have got to think I am just having a weird withdrawal of sorts with soda. It helps me for a few hours, but it is like I get inter-dose withdrawal from it? Is that just so weird? I would think it just can't be this, but seems like every-time I test it, it works out this way. Like my Dr Pepper is acting like a benzo or something, but with a very short half-life. I don't know, you all may think I am crazy, heck so do I, but I have tested it many times and it is almost without fail the way it plays out. Anyway, tough, really tough day today, looking for hop and/or encouragement. 

[Rosetta]

So sorry to hear this, Dave.  I understand how hard this is.  

 

I don't have any theories about the Dr Pepper.  You are still taking drugs.  So, it's possible there's an interaction going on.  I had a strong response to caffeine on Zoloft, I think.  It disappeared during WD.  At one point, I realized that coffee had very little effect on me.   When I quit drinking caffeinated coffee, I didn't get headaches.  These are strange differences.  Maybe these occurrences don't mean there is an interaction, but who knows.  

 

I hope you can get some rest tonight, R

[DaveB]

5 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

So sorry to hear this, Dave.  I understand how hard this is.  

 

I don't have any theories about the Dr Pepper.  You are still taking drugs.  So, it's possible there's an interaction going on.  I had a strong response to caffeine on Zoloft, I think.  It disappeared during WD.  At one point, I realized that coffee had very little effect on me.   When I quit drinking caffeinated coffee, I didn't get headaches.  These are strange differences.  Maybe these occurrences don't mean there is an interaction, but who knows.  

 

I hope you can get some rest tonight, R

 

Thanks Rosetta, you are SO awesome! I appreciate you trying to help me with a theory! It is so bizarre, but I have no doubt it is why my day has been so bad today, but in the long run I had a pretty good month when I was off DP so I am hoping this will do the same this time. It really is the only thing I changed (started drinking DP again) when I went from a great window, into a wave, so I am hopeful I can reverse the trend. 

[Fightingawar]

6 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

I went cold turkey in June or July of 2016.  Reinstated at end of July 2016, it took me about a month to come up from the very bottom, but it took me 5 or 6 months to somewhat stabilize.  By bottom I mean laying on bathroom floor feeling like I was going to pass out. My doctor also had me tapering during that 5 to 6 month period, I should never had done that. After I stabilized for real I had some great periods and some months that were bad, but never as bad as the cold turkey. I had one period from August 2017 to November 2017 that was difficult but again, not as bad as the cold turkey. It has been a long road but I have also had some months that felt real good. The only thing that worked for me was to not change anything for long periods of time, which I know you are already doing.  I wish I had a magic wand and could make your suffering go away. Dave, I was really bad, I mean was going from moment to moment, spending hours in a bathtub, then moving from there to the shower.  Shaking, sweating, the room continuously moving around me, the works.  I'm only telling you this so that you know you can go from really really bad to normal. I just wish you could go to normal now, I wish I could tell you how to do that.  Hang in there buddy. There is hope, I am living proof.  There is hope.

RS

How did you get through that RachelSusan, it’s been so hard my anxiety is so so bad and I can’t eat I’m so nauseous, my body aches from head to toe. How long did you suffer these withdrawals?

[Hazel]

2 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks Rosetta, you are SO awesome! I appreciate you trying to help me with a theory! It is so bizarre, but I have no doubt it is why my day has been so bad today, but in the long run I had a pretty good month when I was off DP so I am hoping this will do the same this time. It really is the only thing I changed (started drinking DP again) when I went from a great window, into a wave, so I am hopeful I can reverse the trend. 

It does sound like the Dr. Pepper is the cause of your current wave.  It’s crazy how the seemingly smallest things can create such havoc in our lives during withdrawal. I am getting to the point where I am afraid to ingest anything that could potentially be even somewhat stimulating.  I can’t wait for the day we don’t have to worry about this bs anymore!