DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

32 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Overall, how have your symptoms changed since you decreased from 20mg Paxil to 10mg November 7? Better, worse, about the same?

 

I would say worse, though it is not like I was doing well before. Anxiety doesn’t shut off at night to the degree it once did, and is overall stronger I believe.

[ChessieCat]

26 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Yes, it is the Monster “Ultra Red” it has 140mgs of caffeine. 

 

Can of Coca-Cola

12 ounces (375ml)

34mg

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Can of Coca-Cola

12 ounces (375ml)

34mg

 

Exactly, that is why I was always so baffled when I felt so much better after. I stopped drinking them, but it is a weird phenomenon for sure.

[ChessieCat]

It might be that you got a hit from it and when it wore off it made you feel worse.

[eymen23]

Dave,

 

I am similar, in that I often find caffeinated drinks make me feel somewhat better. They seem to give me a little euphoria or a mood lift, which counteracts any anxiety or jitteriness most of the time.

 

That being said, I have also found that when I regularly consume caffeine I go ‘up and down’ in mood, and that the anxiety can actually catch up with me 4-6 hours after ingestion. 

 

I ended up ditching caffeine a few weeks into starting Escitalopram for those reasons (even though it did very temporarily make me feel good after drinking). When you’re experiencing so many ups and downs already, it’s best not to play around with even more variables. 

[DaveB]

7 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

It might be that you got a hit from it and when it wore off it made you feel worse.

 

Could very well be the case. Maybe I should quit the V8 drinks as well?

 

2 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

I ended up ditching caffeine a few weeks into starting Escitalopram for those reasons (even though it did very temporarily make me feel good after drinking). When you’re experiencing so many ups and downs already, it’s best not to play around with even more variables. 

 

Interesting, do you feel better now that you ditched it? I do love Dr Pepper and don’t know if I could handle the caffeine withdrawals right now if I quit caffeine. 

[ChessieCat]

If you are ingesting a lot of caffeine in one day, you may be craving it.  It would be best to reduce it gradually.  Doesn't have to be 10% of the current "dose" though. 😁

[eymen23]

23 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Interesting, do you feel better now that you ditched it? I do love Dr Pepper and don’t know if I could handle the caffeine withdrawals right now if I quit caffeine. 

 

Overall, I’m much more stable without caffeine than with it. 

 

Caffeine withdrawal is definitely a real thing, but of course it’s very minor compared to psychiatric drugs . I’ve ‘cold turkeyed’ my intake before and had severe headaches for 2-3 days, followed by minor sleeplessness and feeing irritable for 2-3 days. When I last stopped it, I drank less and less. At the time I was hooked on red bulls, every morning I would be craving a can and wouldn’t feel like my day started until I had one. I would also drink 3 diet cokes during the rest of the day. 

 

To start I cut down to 1 red bull and 2 diet cokes (2 days)

Then 1 red bull and 1 Diet Coke (2 days)

Then 1 red bull (2 days)

Then I dropped 1/4 can of red bull each day until I was taking in no caffeine

 

 I felt quite tired one day about halfway into the ‘taper’ and had minor headaches for 1 day after stopping entirely. All in all, pretty smooth sailing. Definitely better than just stopping it and feeling run down for a week. 

[JackieDecides]

I thought I could never switch to decaf coffee but I managed it. I also crave and enjoy a cup with caffeine but, overall, it makes me worse. just not right away. 

 

you should seriously consider tapering down Dave, it's a big stimulant and "what goes up, must come down"! 

[eymen23]

1 minute ago, JackieDecides said:

I thought I could never switch to decaf coffee but I managed it. I also crave and enjoy a cup with caffeine but, overall, it makes me worse. just not right away. 

 

you should seriously consider tapering down Dave, it's a big stimulant and "what goes up, must come down"! 

 

My experience definitely mirrors Jackie’s. Although we can all agree you probably don’t the Gemini 20 scales to come off. 

 

(Sorry, couldn’t resist). 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, eymen23 said:

 

My experience definitely mirrors Jackie’s. Although we can all agree you probably don’t the Gemini 20 scales to come off. 

 

(Sorry, couldn’t resist). 

 

Haha! Maybe I will start tomorrow with no V8 energy drink.

[DaveB]

Things have TOTALLY calmed down now. When this happens I also think, “what was the big deal?” Then as usual I am sure again tomorrow morning I will be back to not thinking I can even make it through the day.

[Gracee]

39 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 Then as usual I am sure again tomorrow morning I will be back to not thinking I can even make it through the day.

 

That's stinkin' thinkin', Dave.   We  can empower ourselves by deciding we have more power than  freekin' Paxil.  This is what I tell myself every day

[JackieDecides]

8 hours ago, DaveB said:

Things have TOTALLY calmed down now. When this happens I also think, “what was the big deal?” Then as usual I am sure again tomorrow morning I will be back to not thinking I can even make it through the day.

 

I also feel like whatever I am feeling it is FOREVER. despite the fact that feelings are always temporary. you'd think we'd learn! 

well, we keep trying is all we can do. 

[DaveB]

6:30AM - wake to strong anxiety. 

 

7: 30AM - take 10 mgs Paxil, take multivitamins, fish oil, magnesium, vitamin D. 

 

7:30 - 9:30 - strong anxiety in waves, sometimes manageable, usually not.

 

10AM - loose stool, noticed I still have twitching in left eyebrow, been almost a month, hoping it isn’t TD from Zyprexa (is this how TD would even manifest?)

 

10AM - 5PM - strong anxiety in waves, sometimes manageable, usually not.

 

5PM - moderate exercise

 

5 - 8 - still feeling a lot of anxiety, when will it quit?!?

 

8-11 - Anxiety much better, at times almost completely shut off.

 

11PM - 2.5mgs Zyprexa and bed. 

 

Really tough day, end of the day was manageable, but that was only like 3 hours. Woke today to VERY little anxiety. This roller coaster is so weird, hoping for a better day after a much better morning.

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, DaveB said:

still feeling a lot of anxiety, when will it quit?!?

 

Part of learning to get through the tough times is being able to see the discomfort as "it just is" or factual.  Adding "when will it quit?" is just playing into the hands of the anxiety.  You are getting emotionally involved with it.

 

And there is no answer to the question "when will it quit?"  Continually asking a question to which there is no answer frustrates you and adds stress.

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotional anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

[ChessieCat]

Just found this written by another mod in another member's topic:

 

On 12/9/2018 at 2:22 PM, apace41 said:

One of the interesting studies I've read involves the use of "dramatic words" in ones self-talk and the strong adverse effect that has on mood and anxiety.  I know because I tend to be the same way.  It is a form of catastrophizing.  OR, I'm not for a minute suggesting your pain and suffering are not real and intense -- I'm confident they are -- but I am suggesting that if you can start to replace "shattered" with "temporarily damaged" I think you might see some real benefit to your CNS and ability to stabilize.

 

Just a suggestion.  Try it for a few days and see if it helps.

 

[Tom37]

Sorry to here it was a tough day but glad you woke to anxiety being significantly less. Hopefully it meant you had a better day.

 

This roller coaster is no fun but guess it’s a sign the brain and cns is saying ‘don’t do anything just let me heal’ so that’s what we have to do....stay as is and let our bodies heal.

 

Hopefully the above posts can help managage the anxiety although if chemically induced you could be as calm as a Buddhist monk mentally and still find it difficult to seperate mind from body. No cbt will ever calm chemical anxiety so it’s about not letting the physical symptoms control your thoughts. I sympathise with you.

 

 

[DaveB]

@Altostrata @ChessieCat

 

7:30 - wake to Minimal anxiety. 

 

8:30AM - take 10 mgs Paxil, multivitamins, fish oil, magnesium, vitamin D. 

 

8:30 - 10 - moderate anxiety in waves, pretty manageable.

 

10AM - loose stool (maybe magnesium?)

 

10AM - 7PM - mild anxiety in waves, totally manageable

 

7PM - moderate exercise

 

8-11 - Anxiety very mild, at times almost completely shut off.

 

11PM - 2.5mgs Zyprexa and bed. 

 

Really a good day pretty much start to finish. Had a slight uptick in anxiety from about 8:30-10, but other than that it was all manageable. Certainly not symptom free, but a very manageable day. Eyebrow never twitched either, so that is good. This morning is more significant anxiety than I felt yesterday. 

[DaveB]

10 hours ago, Tom37 said:

Sorry to here it was a tough day but glad you woke to anxiety being significantly less. Hopefully it meant you had a better day.

 

This roller coaster is no fun but guess it’s a sign the brain and cns is saying ‘don’t do anything just let me heal’ so that’s what we have to do....stay as is and let our bodies heal.

 

Hopefully the above posts can help managage the anxiety although if chemically induced you could be as calm as a Buddhist monk mentally and still find it difficult to seperate mind from body. No cbt will ever calm chemical anxiety so it’s about not letting the physical symptoms control your thoughts. I sympathise with you.

 

 

 

Exactly, “chemical anxiety” I like that. This is not something that can be solved by meditation or deep breathing, believe me I have tried. But I do think the AAF approach can help to manage it without adding to it. It ended up being a pretty good day, best I have had in a while, especially for a work day.

[eymen23]

Glad you’ve had a better day Dave. Keep at it.  

[Rosetta]

Hi Dave, I'm glad you got some relief for a day.  It's helps to keep going.  -R

[Altostrata]

As I may have mentioned a dozen times before, it may take some time for your system to settle on the new Paxil schedule. Please continue to post your daily notes.

[Tom37]

Pleased you had a good day....just need a few of them in a row and then will really feel like progress.

 

But better days definitely give you bit of a chance to recharge for the not so good days ahead.

[DaveB]

7:30 - wake to moderate anxiety. 

 

8:30AM - take 10 mgs Paxil, multivitamins, fish oil, magnesium, vitamin D. 

 

8:30 - noon. moderate anxiety in waves. At times really tough, others not so bad.

 

Noon - 2:30PM - low anxiety, almost non existent. 

 

2:30 - 9PM - mild to low moderate anxiety in waves, totally manageable.

 

9 - 11PM -Anxiety very mild, at times almost completely shut off.

 

11PM - 2.5mgs Zyprexa and bed. 

 

Another pretty manageable day. Some fairly strong anxiety in the morning, and it would kick up throughout the day, but it was manageable.

[Tom37]

Two ‘better’ days in a row it seems. Hopefully you get number three. 

[DaveB]

7 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

Two ‘better’ days in a row it seems. Hopefully you get number three. 

 

Thanks man, unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be the case at this point, anxiety been really high this morning. Also eyebrow muscle twitch is back in full force after stopping for a couple of days. So yeah, back to a real struggle day for sure. How about you?

[Tom37]

That’s no good but try not to let it get you down. 

 

Bit of a bad period at the moment so bit of a tough week....wouldn’t mind these bad periods if it means I’m healing but I often doubt that. My issue is symptoms constantly changing from one set of symptoms to another which clearly means not yet near stabilising. Apparently everyone eventually does stabilise just no idea how long it will take. 

[DaveB]

40 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

That’s no good but try not to let it get you down. 

 

Bit of a bad period at the moment so bit of a tough week....wouldn’t mind these bad periods if it means I’m healing but I often doubt that. My issue is symptoms constantly changing from one set of symptoms to another which clearly means not yet near stabilising. Apparently everyone eventually does stabilise just no idea how long it will take. 

 

That is my thing as well, when going through a slog I doubt healing and wonder if I am actually slowly getting worse rather than the other way around.

[DaveB]

@Altostrata @brassmonkey @ChessieCatI have that facial twitch in my left eyebrow again. I just have a quick question, is this how TD manifests or is it more a rhythmic movement disorder? I can’t seem to find info on it online, wondering what you guys may know about it.

[Altostrata]

How often does this happen?

 

I had a twitch in one of my eyebrows for some months while recovering from withdrawal syndrome, but it went away. Take care not to catastrophize about every little thing.

[DaveB]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How often does this happen?

 

I had a twitch in one of my eyebrows for some months while recovering from withdrawal syndrome, but it went away. Take care not to catastrophize about every little thing.

 

Didn’t happen at all the last two days, today has happened a lot. It will twitch really strong, like contract and flutter a bit they go away for about 15 minutes to an hour, then it will do it again for about a minute, then go away.

[ChessieCat]

I had a twitching eyelid for a day or so recently.  I didn't worry about it, even though it was annoying.

 

A couple of days later I had a feeling with the same eye that there was something touching my eyelid.  I wear spectacles and have a cat and often have cat fur get stuck to me.  It was a similar feeling but even though I wiped it thoroughly several times the feeling lasted most of the day.  I came to the conclusion that it was something to do with the twitching I had experienced because it was the same eye and about the same area.

 

As Alto said

 

17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Take care not to catastrophize about every little thing.

 

It's only going to add stress and ramp up your withdrawal symptoms and slow your stabilisation.

[DaveB]

Yeah I understand, I am for sure working on it not getting to me. Just wanted to know if you had any insight as to how TD manifests, if twitching is even part of the symptoms. 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[Tom37]

I had a twitching lip on and off for a few days recently and knew it was wd related. Still scared me a little start with as thought about TD but I’m not on anything other than Lexapro. Then realised it will go when it wants to as all other symptoms have.

 

One of the members who I talk with on here who crashed and stabilised had a twitching eye as one of their symptoms and it went like everything else when stabilised. 

[eymen23]

Hi Dave,

 

Tardive Dyskinesia involves involuntary movements of the face and body, like sticking out your tongue or grimacing.

 

More minor twitching can happen for a variety of reasons and sometimes may happen in completely healthy individuals. I often find my eyelids twitch during stressful times like during exams. Also if I’ve had too much caffeine or too little water. 

 

I wouldn’t be too concerned as long as it’s just temporary twitching like you described. 

 

Eymen