Downbutnotout: Started a bridge to get off effexor

[Littlegrandma]

My issues were insomnia and anxiety. If I had cut the sugar and caffeine from my diet before I went on ad meds, I probably could have resolved the problem. Along with more rigorous exercise and yoga. I was kinda depressed but I think it was from lack of sleep. I was always going a hundred mph on 2-4 hrs sleep a night. For years. 

Lunesta is a sleep meditation. In the ambien family. Another med I’ll have to taper after the lex and Ativan. 

How is your sleep now?

[Downbutnotout]

41 minutes ago, Littlegrandma said:

My issues were insomnia and anxiety. If I had cut the sugar and caffeine from my diet before I went on ad meds, I probably could have resolved the problem. Along with more rigorous exercise and yoga. I was kinda depressed but I think it was from lack of sleep. I was always going a hundred mph on 2-4 hrs sleep a night. For years. 

Lunesta is a sleep meditation. In the ambien family. Another med I’ll have to taper after the lex and Ativan. 

How is your sleep now?

It’s weird. After the choir incident, I didn’t sleep for 2 days although I was in bed. I really think taking that ativan was a huge mistake. It does not agree with me. I better throw those out. I’ve been sleeping okay with the trazadone although I’d like to pitch it.I wake up though with lousy depression. In a way, you’re ahead of the game because you’re not grappling with actual mental illness. It sounds like your total problem is the withdrawal syndrome. And the annehendia which is so cruel! And knowing that, should give you some real hope. I am not minimizing your horrendous physical symptoms. So it was a sleeping problem? What a shame you got hooked on this garbage because of that. You must be very tough mentally. Maybe I’ll take the tact, we will get better. A little hope. 

[Littlegrandma]

Did you not sleep because of ruminating thoughts?  That’s the worst. Although I had anxiety, I think it was the insomnia that came first. I’ve never had trouble falling asleep. Just staying asleep. For years I wake up in 10 min. no matter how tired I am. I’ve had to cancel a sleep clinic at Mayo because of wd. Now I have one scheduled at northwestern in Chicago that I’ll have to cancel. I don’t think they’ll be able to figure out what’s going on when im on so many drugs. 

 

Ativan is evil. I wish I’d never have taken it. Too late now. Hindsight. But I have to admit it has taken the edge off during some difficult times, but overall I think it’s making me feel worse. You should throw it out so you’ll not be tempted again. 

 

Its good to hear  you say we will get better. We will. Not soon enough but we will!!

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

In a way, you’re ahead of the game because you’re not grappling with actual mental illness.

 

I think I have found the root of your problem.  You believe you have a mental illness.

 

And that's the rub.  This is a phrase used in Shakespeare's play Hamlet.

 

Meaning:  By rub, Hamlet means a difficulty, obstacle or objection

[Downbutnotout]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I think I have found the root of your problem.  You believe you have a mental illness.

 

And that's the rub.  This is a phrase used in Shakespeare's play Hamlet.

 

Meaning:  By rub, Hamlet means a difficulty, obstacle or objection

I’m just curious about what you think I’m suffering from. I would really like your honest analysis. I’m sincere about that. Maybe it would be helpful to me. 

[Downbutnotout]

4 hours ago, Littlegrandma said:

Did you not sleep because of ruminating thoughts?  That’s the worst. Although I had anxiety, I think it was the insomnia that came first. I’ve never had trouble falling asleep. Just staying asleep. For years I wake up in 10 min. no matter how tired I am. I’ve had to cancel a sleep clinic at Mayo because of wd. Now I have one scheduled at northwestern in Chicago that I’ll have to cancel. I don’t think they’ll be able to figure out what’s going on when im on so many drugs. 

 

Ativan is evil. I wish I’d never have taken it. Too late now. Hindsight. But I have to admit it has taken the edge off during some difficult times, but overall I think it’s making me feel worse. You should throw it out so you’ll not be tempted again. 

 

Its good to hear  you say we will get better. We will. Not soon enough but we will!!

It would be nice. 

[ChessieCat]

Please note that this post is in no way being critical of you.  You have asked for my honest analysis and I am giving it.

 

23 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

I’m just curious about what you think I’m suffering from. I would really like your honest analysis. I’m sincere about that. Maybe it would be helpful to me. 

 

From all the negative posts you have made it would seem that there is something which is stopping or at least making it harder for you to take action to help yourself.  What I have read seems to indicate that you think that other members can do it because they are stronger or that their situation is easier than yours.  The implication is that you can't do it or it wouldn't work for you for some reason or another.

 

8 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

In a way, you’re ahead of the game because you’re not grappling with actual mental illness.

 

Please note that I do not think you have a mental illness.  The comment that you made to Littlegrandma made me think that perhaps you believe, possibly subconsciously, that you have a mental illness.

 

If this is the case then you have a reason/excuse not to learn and use non drug techniques because you have something to blame it on - the mental illness.

 

I have experienced many periods of depression over the years, some extremely deep and dark, before and during AD usage.  It is not easy and as you may have realised when I mentioned the book How I Stayed Alive When My Brain Was Trying to Kill Me, I have considered suicide.

 

You also seem to use your age as an excuse, that you are too old to learn new things or change your thought patterns.  We are never too old to learn.  It may take us longer and we may not be able to learn everything that we could have when younger but it is possible.

 

My suggestion is that you find a psychologist/counsellor and explain that you want to learn techniques to cope with life in general.  There is no need to mention anything about drugs or withdrawal.  You also have the right to not discuss or mention what has happened in your past.  I truly believe that learning and implementing CBT and mindfulness techniques would be beneficial.  However, it is something that you have to do.  Nobody can do it for you.  It is hard work and it doesn't make all your problems go away.  It just helps you to get through them a bit easier.

[Downbutnotout]

thanks for your honest opinion. I appreciate the work you put in the answer. 

[ChessieCat]

You are welcome.  I hope it helps.

[ChessieCat]

Something that I say to people, "we all have crap in our lives, it's just different crap"

[ChessieCat]

And just because people appear to "have it all together" (in other words, coping) doesn't mean to say they do.  I've had many people during my life express surprise after they have known me for a while and I have told them I suffer from depression.  I've had people tell me that I have a "bubbly" personality and that I always seem happy.  Outward appearances can be very deceiving.

 

Which leads me to ask do you spend time on FB.  FB can make you feel very bad.  This is because people only show their best side, they only post the good and happy photos and generally don't talk about how they are really feeling.

[Downbutnotout]

Believe it or not, I felt happy 9 months ago. Nobody is going to telling me I have a bubbly personality right now.  I’ve always liked fb. I think it is a good thing.  I just hope I will feel like myself again someday, or feel some joy. I am concerned my brain neurotransmitters are not going to regenerate. I do feel a lack of something in my head. And you do know what Dr. Shipley says...he does say people who have taken this stuff for 10 years aren’t going to be able to balance the neurotransmitters. Especially when you ct it which is basically what’s been done. 

[ChessieCat]

You asked for my thoughts and I have given them to you and offered some suggestions which may be beneficial to you.

 

You can believe what you want, you can do/not do what you want. 

 

13 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

And you do know what Dr. Shipley says...

 

As for Dr Shipley, he sees the worst of the worst cases.  That is what he bases his findings on.

[Downbutnotout]

13 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

You asked for my thoughts and I have given them to you and offered some suggestions which may be beneficial to you.

 

You can believe what you want, you can do/not do what you want. 

 

 

As for Dr Shipley, he sees the worst of the worst cases.  That is what he bases his findings on.

Okay, I am just scared. I have read the philosophy of this website and I understand where you are all coming from. I am desperately trying to hold unto hope. I really am.  I’m glad that you found some success and are doing well. I’m glad others are doing well too. I did have a window last night. I’m pretty sure. So, maybe I will get another one. And that will lead me to some hope. 

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

Okay, I am just scared.

 

We understand that.  But sometimes if we want to improve things we need to actually do something.  Learning and using CBT and mindfulness are things that I feel could be very helpful to you.  They are simple non drug techniques.  However, they need to be learned and used.  Implementing them can be a bit of hard work, but the more you use them the more they become part of your life.

 

I have found that I catch myself more easily.  For example, if I'm in a hurry trying to get ready for work and whilst I'm preparing something at the sink or cleaning my teeth I realise that my shoulders are hunched and tensed up.  I then take a couple of deeper breaths, tell myself to slow down a bit and drop my shoulders.  It's such a simple thing but it can make a huge difference to how I feel from then on.

 

Another example.  The other week I got to the train station and realised that I had left my bags behind.  I knew that I couldn't drive any faster than the traffic, the lights and the speed limit would allow so I just "chilled".  Getting in a flap wasn't going to make anything happen faster but would just work me up.  When I got back to the station I ended up just missing a train and then had to wait 22 minutes for another one.  Again getting worked up wasn't going to make it come any faster.  Of course I felt some bad feelings and thought some bad thoughts but I would take a few deeper slows breaths and just kept telling myself that I couldn't change it and I would get there when I got there.  That same afternoon I ended up getting on the wrong train.  I could have got myself all worked up and think that everything bad happens to me.  However, I just saw it as being a nuisance and did what I needed to do to get the right train home.

 

And my reaction to missing a set of lights.  The driver in front of me didn't move when the lights changed.  I gave him a bit of time but then realised that he was using his mobile phone.  I tooted my horn and he started to move but the lights changed.  I very nearly went around him to go through the orange light but decided against it.  All the way driving to the station I kept having to do self talk telling myself to calm down.  That one thing could have so easily ruined my whole day or possibly caused me to have an accident.

 

As I said, simple methods that can make a big difference to how I feel.

[Downbutnotout]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

We understand that.  But sometimes if we want to improve things we need to actually do something.  Learning and using CBT and mindfulness are things that I feel could be very helpful to you.  They are simple non drug techniques.  However, they need to be learned and used.  Implementing them can be a bit of hard work, but the more you use them the more they become part of your life.

 

I have found that I catch myself more easily.  For example, if I'm in a hurry trying to get ready for work and whilst I'm preparing something at the sink or cleaning my teeth I realise that my shoulders are hunched and tensed up.  I then take a couple of deeper breaths, tell myself to slow down a bit and drop my shoulders.  It's such a simple thing but it can make a huge difference to how I feel from then on.

 

Another example.  The other week I got to the train station and realised that I had left my bags behind.  I knew that I couldn't drive any faster than the traffic, the lights and the speed limit would allow so I just "chilled".  Getting in a flap wasn't going to make anything happen faster but would just work me up.  When I got back to the station I ended up just missing a train and then had to wait 22 minutes for another one.  Again getting worked up wasn't going to make it come any faster.  Of course I felt some bad feelings and thought some bad thoughts but I would take a few deeper slows breaths and just kept telling myself that I couldn't change it and I would get there when I got there.  That same afternoon I ended up getting on the wrong train.  I could have got myself all worked up and think that everything bad happens to me.  However, I just saw it as being a nuisance and did what I needed to do to get the right train home.

 

And my reaction to missing a set of lights.  The driver in front of me didn't move when the lights changed.  I gave him a bit of time but then realised that he was using his mobile phone.  I tooted my horn and he started to move but the lights changed.  I very nearly went around him to go through the orange light but decided against it.  All the way driving to the station I kept having to do self talk telling myself to calm down.  That one thing could have so easily ruined my whole day or possibly caused me to have an accident.

 

As I said, simple methods that can make a big difference to how I feel.

Okay, thank you Chessie. You are a very caring person. Thank you so much for trying your best to help me!  And I know this is all volunteer which is amazing. Thank you again for all your efforts. 

[Happy2Heal]

 

I posted this on my thread and elsewhere but thought I'd share it here in case it helps

 

it's something I personally have needed to remind myself of many times!

 

I have a fortune from one of those Chinese fortune cookies that I keep on my fridge

it says

 

You are what you think.

 

 

this turns out to be SO true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

what we think and what we believe has a HUGE impact on how we feel and quite literally on what we see.

If we are expecting bad things, we will be on the lookout of them

If we are expecting good things, we will be looking for those as well.

 

this is NOT looking at the world thru rose colored glasses, this will not turn something sad into something happy, but it will change your overall attitude towards things in a major way.

 

so that when something sad does come your way, you'll more quickly rebound and look for what helped you to get thru the sadness, rather than just replaying all the things that made you sad.

 

we have so much more power over our lives, our moods, our attitudes and our outlook than I ever realized before.

 

WD/recovery is hard, but we can make it easier on ourselves by changing how we look at it.

 

ok now I'm just sounding preachy, sorry! 

writing this helps to reinforce this lesson for myself, so part of my reason for posting is entirely selfish

 

please excuse me if this is all old news to you!! 

 

 

PS

 

this is just a long way to say something simple:

"if you think you can't, you are RIGHT"

 

anytime I hear myself either saying, or just thinking,  anything that begins with these two works "I can't..."
I have trained myself to stop and say, oh really?? why can't you?

or is the truth more like, I don't want to,

or even I don't want to right now

Or I'm not sure I can, maybe I can't....

do I have the courage to try?

 

because if you believe that you can not do something, you are absolutely right. Your own belief is going to make it unlikely, if not impossible.

 

But if you think you CAN, if you dare to think bigger and bolder, and think, hey, this may be hard, but what the heck? what have I got to lose, I might be able to do this, why not give it a shot?

then chance are much more in your favor for success.

 

I have been exactly where you are, thinking I had a real biological mental impairment,  a mental illness, and that I was not "able" to do all sorts of things.
Sadly the way the mental health system is set up, it pretty much encourages this sort of helplessness and dependence on drugs, on therapy, etc, that as far as I can see, only lines their pockets and provides very little real help for anyone. 

 

If you want to continue to think that you are a special case, that you are impaired and can not change, you will stay stuck where you are.
And that's fine, if that's what you want.

No judgement here, there were times in my life where this made sense for me for several reasons that are too personal to go into on a public forum.

 

but if you want to do this, the only thing really standing in your way is your own belief about whether or not it's possible

 

if you think you can't, you are right. and anyone trying to assist you is essentially wasting their valuable time.

 

however, so many of the ppl who have posted to help you, have given such hugely valuable information and advice, I am grateful to you for coming here, even if you personally aren't getting anything out of this.

 

because I have just gained a whole lot of new knowledge, tips and advice that will help me for a long time to come

thank you to everyone here for being so giving and generous with your time and hard work

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Happy2Heal
edited to add something

[Downbutnotout]

Thanks for your input. And I do thank everyone for their hard work and concern. 

[Downbutnotout]

On 3/3/2018 at 4:50 PM, AliG said:

DBNO. it may be worthwhile trying to cut out the gluten out of your diet too , as it can also exacerbate depression.

[Downbutnotout]

On 3/3/2018 at 3:28 PM, AliG said:

 

This is drugs  ... I had it too ... I used to wake up crying , with these stupid drugs  ... it makes no sense ... you have to get educated and then take your power back ~

 

I really believe I didn’t updose far enough. I have the effexir that comes in tablet form. I think it would be easier to use this than the beads.

 

I sincerely believe the beads are not having much of an effect. 

 

I am feeling more depressed and getting more dysfunctional. 

 

I did stabalize on effexor several years ago. 

 

I think it may be the effect of really not being on effexor since October. It is getting harder and harder for me to participate in life. 

 

I’d like to do a substantial updose to see if it helps. How high could I safely go using the tablets? And how would I do it? 

 

I have to do something. This is unbearable. 

 

The tablets are 25 mg. I can split them in half and quarters. They are the short acting ones. 

 

I also still have the beads. 

 

Or or I could try to make solution. 

 

I was on 75 mg of Effexor when I stopped it in October. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

6 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I really believe I didn’t updose far enough. I have the effexir that comes in tablet form. I think it would be easier to use this than the beads.

 

I sincerely believe the beads are not having much of an effect. 

 

I am feeling more depressed and getting more dysfunctional. 

 

I did stabalize on effexor several years ago. 

 

I think it may be the effect of really not being on effexor since October. It is getting harder and harder for me to participate in life. 

 

I’d like to do a substantial updose to see if it helps. How high could I safely go using the tablets? And how would I do it? 

 

I have to do something. This is unbearable. 

 

The tablets are 25 mg. I can split them in half and quarters. They are the short acting ones. 

 

I also still have the beads. 

 

Or or I could try to make solution. 

 

I was on 75 mg of Effexor when I stopped it in October. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After reading about the differences between wd depression and reg depression again, I really think this is just a continuation of the depression I was having before I wd the effexor. So would reinstating higher do anything? 

 

Or is holding my dosage at all doing anything?

 

I really don’t think it’s wd. 

My symptoms do not come in waves. I don’t get windows . Maybe 3 in 9 months where I didn’t feel terrible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

On 3/8/2018 at 12:37 AM, Downbutnotout said:

After reading about the differences between wd depression and reg depression again, I really think this is just a continuation of the depression I was having before I wd the effexor. So would reinstating higher do anything? 

 

Or is holding my dosage at all doing anything?

 

I really don’t think it’s wd. 

My symptoms do not come in waves. I don’t get windows . Maybe 3 in 9 months where I didn’t feel terrible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t want to take over Kristine’s thread. I wish I had her courage and confidence. I am very afraid for my future. I am very afraid about the state of my mental health. I am not sure about the damage ct off effexir did to me. I am not confident about what I should do. If only I had some windows so I knew it was the right thing.  And I know nobody can tell me.

[Rosetta]

Hugs, D.  I'm sorry you are feeling so bad.  -- R

[Downbutnotout]

24 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hugs, D.  I'm sorry you are feeling so bad.  -- R

Thanks Rosetta. You are very sweet. if There was a delete button I would’ve deleted it right after I wrote it. Everyone’s got problems. 

[wantrelief]

3 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I didn’t want to take over Kristine’s thread. I wish I had her courage and confidence. I am very afraid for my future. I am very afraid about the state of my mental health. I am not sure about the damage ct off effexir did to me. I am not confident about what I should do. If only I had some windows so I knew it was the right thing.  And I know nobody can tell me.

I understand how you are feeling, DBNO.  We are in a really tough spot.  I think it is normal to feel afraid when we are feeling so poorly and it is also normal to question what is the right thing to do when you are suffering; we just want to feel better and get on with our lives.  

[Kristine]

3 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I didn’t want to take over Kristine’s thread. I wish I had her courage and confidence. I am very afraid for my future. I am very afraid about the state of my mental health. I am not sure about the damage ct off effexir did to me. I am not confident about what I should do. If only I had some windows so I knew it was the right thing.  And I know nobody can tell me.

Hey there my Friend  I'm not always sure of my decisions and what you see as courage is prehaps just my necessity to survive. However, I see enormous courage and confidence in you D....it takes great courage and confidence just to step outside your front door and participate in life the way you do.  Please try not to underestimate or ignore your own unique strengths.  There are many people who are not confident about their next step.  I understand your quandary.  Much Love and hugs K xo

[Downbutnotout]

1 minute ago, wantrelief said:

I understand how you are feeling, DBNO.  We are in a really tough spot.  I think it is normal to feel afraid when we are feeling so poorly and it is also normal to question what is the right thing to do when you are suffering; we just want to feel better and get on with our lives.  

Thanks. It’s just not clear cut. I’m glad you understand. Yes, we’re in s tough spot. I’ve gotten over these things before, but this time it’s different. 

[Downbutnotout]

1 minute ago, Kristine said:

Hey there my Friend  I'm not always sure of my decisions and what you see as courage is prehaps just my necessity to survive. However, I see enormous courage and confidence in you D....it takes great courage and confidence just to step outside your front door and participate in life the way you do.  Please try not to underestimate or ignore your own unique strengths.  There are many people who are not confident about their next step.  I understand your quandary.  Much Love and hugs K xo

Thanks. 

[Downbutnotout]

On 3/7/2018 at 5:18 PM, Downbutnotout said:

I really believe I didn’t updose far enough. I have the effexir that comes in tablet form. I think it would be easier to use this than the beads.

 

I sincerely believe the beads are not having much of an effect. 

 

I am feeling more depressed and getting more dysfunctional. 

 

I did stabalize on effexor several years ago. 

 

I think it may be the effect of really not being on effexor since October. It is getting harder and harder for me to participate in life. 

 

I’d like to do a substantial updose to see if it helps. How high could I safely go using the tablets? And how would I do it? 

 

I have to do something. This is unbearable. 

 

The tablets are 25 mg. I can split them in half and quarters. They are the short acting ones. 

 

I also still have the beads. 

 

Or or I could try to make solution. 

 

I was on 75 mg of Effexor when I stopped it in October. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

On 3/7/2018 at 5:18 PM, Downbutnotout said:

I really believe I didn’t updose far enough. I have the effexir that comes in tablet form. I think it would be easier to use this than the beads.

 

I sincerely believe the beads are not having much of an effect. 

 

I am feeling more depressed and getting more dysfunctional. 

 

I did stabalize on effexor several years ago. 

 

I think it may be the effect of really not being on effexor since October. It is getting harder and harder for me to participate in life. 

 

I’d like to do a substantial updose to see if it helps. How high could I safely go using the tablets? And how would I do it? 

 

I have to do something. This is unbearable. 

 

The tablets are 25 mg. I can split them in half and quarters. They are the short acting ones. 

 

I also still have the beads. 

 

Or or I could try to make solution. 

 

I was on 75 mg of Effexor when I stopped it in October. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I updosed 2 beads. I feel better. Could I split this up during the day? 

[Rosetta]

D, I found a number of links to articles about depression that were posted by GiaK.  I put them on my thread.  You should take a look. -- R

[Downbutnotout]

Thank you Rosetta. You are a very kind and thoughtful person. 

[wantrelief]

I am so happy to hear you are feeling better, DBNO!

[Downbutnotout]

It was only for a few hours tonight. . A little relief tonight.I just hope it holds up tomorrow. I probably shouldn’t have written that.  I’ve been in the real depths of depression earlier today. It’s been terrible. Especially the last week. I hope you’re feeling better. 

[Downbutnotout]

10 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I updosed 2 beads. I feel better. Could I split this up during the day? 

Can I get some advice on this? 

[Downbutnotout]

17 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

I updosed 2 beads. I feel better. Could I split this up during the day? 

Can I get some advice on this?