hayduke: coming off olanzapine / Zyprexa

[Lilabella]

Hi hayduke,

 Thank you so much for replying to me. I'm thinking of going down with the tablets until 5 mg and then taking the water route from there. I have read rhi's topic on suspensions I guess I just hoped for some insight into how you managed that as when I dissolved the tablet it didn't break down. I find being a chemist is totally perplexing. Just not in my skill set. 

All the best and thank you again for the help. Sleep well! 

[hayduke]

@Lilabella https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/20131-hayduke-coming-off-olanzapine-zyprexa/?do=findComment&comment=446819

[Lilabella]

Thanks hayduke,

 So you just dissolve the tablet in water and agitate to get the bits in the suspension. 

Did you have withdrawal from reducing from ten? I see you did pretty big jumps down. 

All the best to you, and thank you again. 

[hayduke]

1 hour ago, Lilabella said:

Did you have withdrawal from reducing from ten? I see you did pretty big jumps down. 

 

Yeah for a week or two for those, but I hadn't done any research on tapering by then.  It was pretty easy.  My take away from that is that receptor occupancies weren't that different between 10 and 5, but it took some of the load off my body.  I still slept almost half the day.

 

From my perspective and what I knew at the time, going to 5mg was a dosage adjustment after some stability.  The taper proper began at 5mg, which the original prescriber didn't want me under...heh.

[hayduke]

Quick update:  lots of fatigue.  I've been spending the bulk of quite a few days just lying on the bed not even reading or listening to much.

 

It's frustrating with bills to pay and projects to get on with (starting with housework!), but at the same time I think it comes with some relaxation and I just have to let my body do its repairs.  Same deal as the rest of the tapering experience, the organism sets the pace and I just have to let it.

 

Similarly with sensitivity to alcohol, it all seems more pronounced than even the late stages of the taper, and just have to keep practicing self care.

 

But hey as well as all the personal stresses, what a crazy time in the world.  Giving myself all the space I need to process and recover still sounds like the way to go, especially with more rigour in the wind again.

 

Cheers

[Lilabella]

Thanks hayduke. I'm going to get down to five before doing a brass monkey slide. It all feels really daunting to be honest with you. Just want to get off this poison as soon as I can. 

I'm glad you are able to listen to your body, the housework can wait. It's a long process it seems even post zero, but you must feel such a relief to be finally off. From now on it's just healing and more healing. And yes I have had to give up alcohol in preparation for my taper, it's hard but I think it's worth it. 

[hayduke]

47 minutes ago, Lilabella said:

Thanks hayduke. I'm going to get down to five before doing a brass monkey slide. It all feels really daunting to be honest with you. Just want to get off this poison as soon as I can. 

I'm glad you are able to listen to your body, the housework can wait. It's a long process it seems even post zero, but you must feel such a relief to be finally off. From now on it's just healing and more healing. And yes I have had to give up alcohol in preparation for my taper, it's hard but I think it's worth it. 

 

I'd still suggest starting with a 10% cut for four weeks to get your toe in the water.  You will know before long what kind of rate you can comfortably tolerate.  My original prescriber was driving my brain like he stole it.  

So are you on olanzapine yourself now?  I've just been over to your intro thread - if you'd like to talk about that more there, see you over there tomorrow.

 

Cheers

[Lilabella]

Thanks I will. My intro needs a big update as I was switched from quetiapine to olanzapine whilst hospitalised from withdrawal of the quetiapine. There was nothing at that time that I could have done to prevent it. 

See you tomorrow, thanks. 

[BadMedicine]

@hayduke As frustrating as it may be it’s very wise to listen to your body and give it all the rest it needs. There must be a lot of healing going on. I hope things even out for you soon. Once you recover from the jump to zero, though you are there and, all being well, you will never have to do it again. You will be free to enjoy your life drug free. For now keep going. You are doing great.

[hayduke]

Thanks for the encouragement @BadMedicine!

 

Half the time I feel peachy enough, then I just melt onto the bed.

 

Sleep is ok for mid summer, but I wouldn't mind just hibernating this winter and emerging next spring instead.  Not on the cards by the look of it

[Lilabella]

How are you today hayduke? Thanks for the encouragement on my thread. I hope you continue to be well, you must feel very relieved to be off the olanzapine now. You are my inspiration! 

[hayduke]

Thanks @Lilabella.  Still massive fatigue, which I wouldn't mind so much if the world was a bit less demanding for longer.  But I can feel my body using that rest, too.

[Lilabella]

Yes when will the world catch up that withdrawal is a thing and needs time hey? 

By the way your comment on my thread that your doctor drove your brain like he owned it has really made me smile a lot in recent days. My psychiatrist said I could reduce quetiapine in 25mg jumps every week and all withdrawal was purely psychosomatic. It's so shocking how this has been hushed up by doctors. I'm sure that they have many people speak of withdrawal but they are so deep into denial they won't admit it. I've never before felt so powerless which is really hard psychologically. Taking control of our health seems to be one good outcome from doing a self managed taper though. 

[hayduke]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:45 AM, Lilabella said:

Taking control of our health seems to be one good outcome from doing a self managed taper though. 

 

Yeah, that has definitely been my experience.

 

Even the clinical psychologist I was going to before the trauma specialist was a huge help, supporting my taper and providing reassurance that I was good to keep going, and sooner or later suddenly I had a knack for boundaries that were never tolerated in the family home.  For the first time in dating and other interactions I was confident which were my problems and which weren't.  It just got better from there, and obviously the deeper trauma work changed everything for good.

[Lilabella]

I have a question, when you were tapering did you have symptoms or were they in the background? I have q hope that I can do it and manage my life at the same time but I wonder if I'm a bit optimistic really. 

It sounds like you have done so much good work. I am in therapy although it's frustrating with the emotional bluntness from olanzapine as I don't feel like I can really get to the bottom of anything. Hopefully as I get down I will feel more like myself again. 

[hayduke]

2 hours ago, Lilabella said:

when you were tapering did you have symptoms or were they in the background?

 

Yes, a ton.  The thread here is full of notes on them, especially when they collided with work etc (I know it's pretty long).  The key is to manage your taper and slow down enough that you and your body can tolerate them without having major upsets in your life.

 

2 hours ago, Lilabella said:

I am in therapy although it's frustrating with the emotional bluntness from olanzapine as I don't feel like I can really get to the bottom of anything. Hopefully as I get down I will feel more like myself again. 

 

Yes you will have more access to the stuff you need to work on as you come off.  Good to have the support in place already.

[Lilabella]

Thanks @hayduke for your thoughtful answer again. It's going to take me five years to get to zero so I guess I have all the time in the world to find out how I do. All the best to you, how is the fatigue going. Hope you've been able to rest. 

[Lilabella]

How are you doing @hayduke? Hope you are managing to truck along. All the best, lila. 

[Rrsfc]

Hi @hayduke, how are you these days, how is your fatigue? I also love to read, and like you I pick up books that can help me on my personal journey. You are a very tenacious and determined person and I believe you will succeed in all your endeavours. Congratulations again for being off this med at last, you must and should feel very empowered 😊. Hope you are doing well...

 

[Nicjk]

On 11/24/2021 at 3:32 PM, hayduke said:

Then using brass monkey's slide taper, as @ChessieCat linked you to up there, I found it the least disruptive of any of the taper schedules.  While I did tinker with it a bit, this was the blueprint for me to safely reach zero olanzapine.

Hi @hayduke, just wondering what percentage you reduced by each week using the brass monkey method, and how long did you hold for? Do you think it would be possible to use the brass monkey method while cutting and weighing pills? I unfortunately can't tolerate liquid olanzapine 

[Lilabella]

@hayduke how are things with you? 

[Carmie]

Hey Hayduke, 

 

Just popping in to see how you’re doing🧡

[hayduke]

On 2/24/2022 at 2:35 PM, Nicjk said:

Hi @hayduke, just wondering what percentage you reduced by each week using the brass monkey method, and how long did you hold for? Do you think it would be possible to use the brass monkey method while cutting and weighing pills? I unfortunately can't tolerate liquid olanzapine 

 

I followed the recipe as given to start with, I think from around the 2mg region at that stage.  Calculated a 10% cut, making each 2.5% of that a cut over four weeks, then a two week hold, then repeat.
 

Of course this is just a template, and you hold any time you feel the need.  It is a great place to start.

 

There is a graph of my taper linked to in my sig which shows variations as I tried different things or adapted to circumstances.

I can't comment on weighing crushed pills as I found it way too fiddly and inaccurate.  But others swear by it so YMMV as always.

I also moved this post to my thread as it didn't really belong in Guile1's.

Edited March 1, 2022 by hayduke
Noting moved post

[hayduke]

21 hours ago, Carmie said:

Hey Hayduke, 

 

Just popping in to see how you’re doing🧡

On 2/13/2022 at 6:19 AM, Lilabella said:

How are you doing @hayduke? Hope you are managing to truck along. All the best, lila. 

On 2/16/2022 at 10:06 PM, Rrsfc said:

Hi @hayduke, how are you these days, how is your fatigue? I also love to read, and like you I pick up books that can help me on my personal journey. You are a very tenacious and determined person and I believe you will succeed in all your endeavours. Congratulations again for being off this med at last, you must and should feel very empowered 😊. Hope you are doing well...

 

 

Thanks you guys for coming by.

 

It's nearly five months off now, and having to rummage around for a dosage before bed doesn't even cross my mind any more most nights.  

 

Fatigue may be pre diabetic related.  I did another fast, and feel more energetic afterwards.  I will try and do more of these and have been veering towards a healthier keto diet for a while so I can shed more drug induced lard (decadent salads with bacon and cheese ain't all bad!).  Then some time around target weight can work out a more sustainable diet for maintenance.

 

I am definitely still very sensitive to alcohol and have to be careful to have way less than I would have been used to before.  A good habit to break for several reasons but frustrating sometimes.

 

Getting enough work to survive this year is the challenge.  The welfare system in Australia has never been close to what most western countries would expect, and these days is probably giving the U.S a run for its money in cruelty and harshness.  I don't want to be using it for long, but I am livid how (deliberately) broken our safety net is for anyone who actually requires it.  Anyway I will find something.

 

Sleep is often six hours but rarely less.  Managed eight the last couple of nights.  Overall pretty good.

 

Body still hoovering up magnesium and hemp powder for omega 3 like it's going out of style!

[hayduke]

Adding a note that I've also been taking CoQ10 again

[Carmie]

Enjoy your decadent salad with bacon and cheese Hayduke😁

 

I’m on the autoimmune protocol and can’t have dairy but I can have bacon ( as long as it doesn’t have nitrates or any additives ). Haven’t found any yet that doesn’t have additives here in Australia, but I haven’t researched thoroughly yet either. 
 

I’m sooooooo very happy you got off these meds🧡

[hayduke]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:57 PM, Carmie said:

Enjoy your decadent salad with bacon and cheese Hayduke😁

 

I’m on the autoimmune protocol and can’t have dairy but I can have bacon ( as long as it doesn’t have nitrates or any additives ). Haven’t found any yet that doesn’t have additives here in Australia, but I haven’t researched thoroughly yet either. 
 

I’m sooooooo very happy you got off these meds🧡

 

Thanks Carmie.  I actually had pub food today but it's a tough week..will try returning to good behaviour!

That nitrate free bacon is around, someone in Melbourne was telling me they had it.  Worth the hunt I reckon.  Annoying how they could just use salt instead but most of it has this crap instead.

 

Man I'm glad to have reached zero.  The healing process is so far from over, but I really am grateful for having touched down.  My body is still recovering from the massive insult of the drugging and what it was intended to whitewash.  I am looking forward to my nervous system not being so sensitised, but that will take a while yet.  It wouldn't hurt if everything was not alternately on fire, flooded or contagious.  I miss the quality of life we took for granted in the 90s.  

After the endless "when will this end" with many of the cuts, it is almost hard to believe I can at least just go straight to bed when I want now without fudging around with the titration or tablets.

Thank you and all of SA for encouraging the patience and guidance to make it this far 🙂

[Carmie]

12 hours ago, hayduke said:

 

Thanks Carmie.  I actually had pub food today but it's a tough week..will try returning to good behaviour!

That nitrate free bacon is around, someone in Melbourne was telling me they had it.  Worth the hunt I reckon.  Annoying how they could just use salt instead but most of it has this crap instead.

 

Man I'm glad to have reached zero.  The healing process is so far from over, but I really am grateful for having touched down.  My body is still recovering from the massive insult of the drugging and what it was intended to whitewash.  I am looking forward to my nervous system not being so sensitised, but that will take a while yet.  It wouldn't hurt if everything was not alternately on fire, flooded or contagious.  I miss the quality of life we took for granted in the 90s.  

After the endless "when will this end" with many of the cuts, it is almost hard to believe I can at least just go straight to bed when I want now without fudging around with the titration or tablets.

Thank you and all of SA for encouraging the patience and guidance to make it this far 🙂

Yes, that would certainly be fantastic, not having to fiddle around with the meds anymore. I really am glad you’re off them. 
 

We are certainly bombarded with natural disasters etc recently here in Australia. The flood waters have gone down where I live, they didn’t affect me as such, but friends of mine were badly affected. 
 

Take care🧡

[Venkat]

Hi @hayduke , hope you are doing good. You must be enjoying your life, free of all medications after all the hard work you have done. Your posts are a lot of inspiration to many of us. Hope your problems with your past are receding with therapy. Honestly don't know what else to say to a normal person but I convey my immense thanks to you for guiding me so far🙏.

 

Regards, venkat 

[hayduke]

20 hours ago, Venkat said:

Hi @hayduke , hope you are doing good. You must be enjoying your life, free of all medications after all the hard work you have done. Your posts are a lot of inspiration to many of us. Hope your problems with your past are receding with therapy. Honestly don't know what else to say to a normal person but I convey my immense thanks to you for guiding me so far🙏.

 

Regards, venkat 

 

Hey thanks Venkat.  It's not exactly enjoyment city for anyone the last few years with fires, lately massive unprecedented flooding (greenhouse effect bulls**t) and of course the pandemic constricting our social lives, travel and so on.  But the biggest challenge right now is facing down the dysfunctional nuclear family that forced me into these drugs.  I hope your social surroundings are less challenging than this.

Regardless my body's metabolism is recovering, weight is coming off, some energy is coming back despite the need for a lot of rest still, but you're right - it's nice to know this is MY brain again and anyone who wants to act otherwise can take a ticket and wait outside.  In the rain.  Till the cows come home.

There are still plenty of good things in life among the messy healing stuff.

You are doing really well fella.

 

Cheers

[hayduke]

3 year update:

I am in a CSA survivor's support group at the moment which is much like therapy - in the trenches, reliving, acknowledging and discussing the trauma - but it should lead to being able to put more of it in order and put it away.  And not suffering alone has much to be said for it.

 

Life is still hard, but that's at least 50% due to the world outside.  Things within my immediate control are made somewhat harder by that, but it's nearly six months since zero and I haven't looked back.

Post zero observations:
- Mental acuity, emotional fluency and intuition are much improved
- Physical health is improving a lot - blood tests are much closer to normal.  Diet and exercise helping a lot.
- Sensitivity to alcohol etc has never been higher, even after this long.  When SA advises alcohol is best avoided especially around the tail end of the taper, this is best heeded IMO
- Relationships can become strained as all the issues are laid bare
- Your self care will want to be well practiced.  You will want to be quick to know when you are triggered and what to do about it.  You can minimise things that trigger you but they will always happen and practice is the only way to manage it.  You don't want to create a situation where people are overly concerned about your behaviour or situation.  This means being able to assert yourself without having the bouncers called!
- Removing stressors is difficult but you will want to do as much of it as you can.
- It's still rocky terrain, although I am taking heart that I no longer have to worry about cuts or tapering
- Life's not necessarily easier right now, and in some ways harder, but there are some better developments in sight too

Still feels like quite a way to the shore, but I wouldn't choose to go back to any previous step of the process from here.

Cheers

[BadMedicine]

@hayduke. I am glad you have managed to find a group of people to help heal your past trauma. You have been through a lot and are coping incredibly well. A taper of this drug alone is enough to break most people let alone having to deal with it with a background of significant trauma.

 

it’s great that you are improving so much physically. That must be very gratifying. I’m sure your ability to negotiate difficult relationships will continue to improve as you get used to the heightened emotions that come with removing the shackles of the drug. You are doing really well I think. Recognising your triggers and allowing yourself space to deal with them is an important part of the solution and you seem very good at this. And your resilience will continue to grow I’m sure the further away you get from the drug. 6 months is still not very long when it comes to completely recovering the effects of olanzapine.

[Venkat]

@hayduke you are doing great. Hope all other issues fall in place. You have the patience and wisdom to see it through. You will make your life peaceful soon, it is a matter of some time. Take care. 

[hayduke]

6 hours ago, Venkat said:

@hayduke you are doing great. Hope all other issues fall in place. You have the patience and wisdom to see it through. You will make your life peaceful soon, it is a matter of some time. Take care. 

 

Thank you Venkat.  That is a wonderful post.  Cheers

[hayduke]

On 3/27/2022 at 12:30 AM, BadMedicine said:

@hayduke. I am glad you have managed to find a group of people to help heal your past trauma. You have been through a lot and are coping incredibly well. A taper of this drug alone is enough to break most people let alone having to deal with it with a background of significant trauma.

 

it’s great that you are improving so much physically. That must be very gratifying. I’m sure your ability to negotiate difficult relationships will continue to improve as you get used to the heightened emotions that come with removing the shackles of the drug. You are doing really well I think. Recognising your triggers and allowing yourself space to deal with them is an important part of the solution and you seem very good at this. And your resilience will continue to grow I’m sure the further away you get from the drug. 6 months is still not very long when it comes to completely recovering the effects of olanzapine.

Thanks @BadMedicine.  Much of it is just "one foot in front of the other", though I am more conscious of remembering this mentality during therapy when the hard stuff gets dug up and lots of unpleasant feelings abound.  It always helps to keep in mind that this is necessary to process them, and put them into the past forever.

Self care is a great thing to work on.  And yeah six months isn't that long on the scale of what these drugs do.  Cheers  🙂

[Felix]

hay, did you feel anxiety or depression after you jump to zero? At 0.205 mg, how many d2 occupancy do you think olanzapine had?