Avrgejane: Amitriptyline withdrawal and switching to cipralex?

[Altostrata]

Unfortunately, 6 months is still early in PAWS. If you've seen very gradual improvement, that's normal.

[Avrgejane]

Thanks so much again for your incredible and continued support @Altostrata, this is all so frightening and no one really understands what is normal and what is not. 
 

I do want to say that I have seen improvements yes. Which is a great sign but like you said before it’s sllloooooowww. I’m taking some time off of work to recover. It’s crazy to think that 2 months can do this! I think as long as I keep seeing improvements that’s good. My most upsetting symptoms are the nausea, anxiety, DRDP and overwhelm/overload. I also don’t like the “wtf am I doing and how did I get here” feeling which I’m sure is the DRDP. 
 

When I get through this, I swear to you, I will fight the good fight along side you. 

[Snorky]

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Unfortunately, 6 months is still early in PAWS. If you've seen very gradual improvement, that's normal.

The problem is where there is not just waves only, but ever deteriorating waves. 

[Ella56]

3 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

Thanks so much again for your incredible and continued support @Altostrata, this is all so frightening and no one really understands what is normal and what is not. 
 

I do want to say that I have seen improvements yes. Which is a great sign but like you said before it’s sllloooooowww. I’m taking some time off of work to recover. It’s crazy to think that 2 months can do this! I think as long as I keep seeing improvements that’s good. My most upsetting symptoms are the nausea, anxiety, DRDP and overwhelm/overload. I also don’t like the “wtf am I doing and how did I get here” feeling which I’m sure is the DRDP. 
 

When I get through this, I swear to you, I will fight the good fight along side you. 

What is paws and drdp ? I could try to find but feeling sick sorry. Everyone is so great here..so thankful!

[Ella56]

1 minute ago, Snorky said:

The problem is where there is not just waves only, but ever deteriorating waves. 

I have been off celexa 6 month about. I cant tell if i have waves and windows..just the same i think. 

[Avrgejane]

5 minutes ago, Snorky said:

The problem is where there is not just waves only, but ever deteriorating waves. 

What do you mean by deteriorating waves? 

[Avrgejane]

5 minutes ago, Ella56 said:

What is paws and drdp ? I could try to find but feeling sick sorry. Everyone is so great here..so thankful!

Post acute withdrawal syndrome. I think that’s pretty much what everyone refers to as withdrawal here as they are long past the acute stage. DRDP is the derealization and depersonalization. It’s such an upsetting symptom and can be quite disabling. Well for me anyway because it causes anxiety, and that’s on top of the already terrible anxiety that the PAWS is causing. 

[Snorky]

23 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

What do you mean by deteriorating waves? 

In my period of CT (five months), I’ve had four main symptoms:

 

Depression 

Anxiety

Head tremors 

Nerve pain

 

In the last few months the depression anxiety and head tremors have become from frequent and more intense. I can benchmark how I felt a few weeks ago and 109% evidence of deterioration.

[Avrgejane]

Oh I see what you mean now. So the symptoms are becoming more severe and amplified. I’ve had sooooo many symptoms. Some have improved, others went away and came back. I do have the waves and windows for sure. I’m not quiet at 6 months off at this point. It will be 6 months in about 4-5 days. My worst was right at the beginning. Like deadly terrible. I’ve had some pretty horrible waves too. 

[Avrgejane]

@Gridley

@Altostrata

 

so at this stage in the game does it sound normal to still be experiencing burning, and overwhelm and nausea and anxiety? Like I mentioned, 2 months on ami and my last dose was Sept 30. Today marks the start of 6 months off. Plus, I do think that maybe this is a little bit benzo too even though I took them for a short period. So many complicating factors. Updosing quickly, quick taper, adverse reaction, intermittent and varying doses of Ativan....

 

Is it common for someone only on this for two months to be experiencing this 6 months out? Yes, I have improved in some areas and some symptoms have let up or gone away. 
 

I guess I’m just really wanting my life back. 

[Gridley]

11 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

 

Is it common for someone only on this for two months to be experiencing this 6 months out? Yes, I have improved in some areas and some symptoms have let up or gone away. 

Yes, it is very common. Many members have withdrawal that far exceeds the time they were on the drug.   It's very encouraging that you've improved in some areas.

[Avrgejane]

I guess I’m just looking for hope and that this isn’t all in my head (I’ve had my doctor tell me it’s all anxiety). Trying to navigate this is so hard and I’m scared of losing so much. Everyone keeps saying “you were only on for 2 months”. It makes someone feel so abnormal and like there is something wrong with them for still feeling like this and having all these symptoms. It makes you feel like maybe it is all in your head or that something is wrong with you. 

[Erell]

Hello Avrgejane

 

I empathise : unfortunately doctors know nothing about WD, and family and friends can't understand what we are going through.

I think all members here go through difficulties with those around us.

That's why a place like SA is so important.

 

No it is not in your head : your brain was remodeled by drugs, even if it was only 2 months, and now your CNS need time To adjust and heal.

 

I see you have already seen some improvments : this is really great news.

One day you Will thank your old self for going through this and staying strong

Remember  : it Will be slow and very gradual, but it is temporary.

 

 

Stay strong  ❤

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Erell

[Altostrata]

On 10/18/2019 at 12:01 PM, Altostrata said:

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

[Avrgejane]

@Altostrata

@Gridley

@Erell

 

thanks so much for your replies. Trying very hard to stay strong. It’s a long process and very all consuming. I’m wondering when I will find happiness again? I sure hope that comes back. Depression is something I have never dealt with before and now because of the drugs I’m having to deal with it. It’s a scary thing for me. 
 

so can I ask too about this sexual dysfunction? I have not been intimate with my husband since november. I have no desire and no enjoyment of it, etc. Does that come back too when the CNS heals? 

[Gridley]

4 hours ago, Avrgejane said:

Does that come back too when the CNS heals? 

It comes back but there is just no way to know when.

[India]

On 2/24/2020 at 7:10 PM, Avrgejane said:

@India take a look above. I’ve been chatting with a few people. Still working through it. Hard to believe that I was only on this for 2 months. 

It happened to someone called Nora on “let’s talk withdrawal” podcast., She only took it for a few days and had an adverse reaction. She’s slowly recovering 3 years later. 

[Avrgejane]

@India

 

what was her adverse reaction? 

[India]

http://www.letstalkwithdrawal.com/nora/

[Avrgejane]

@IndiaWow. Her reaction was very bad! Poor girl! Mine was heart palpitations like extreme and severe dissociative panic and sensory overload as I started to go higher in dose, thanks to the idiot doctor who prescribed it. 

[Avrgejane]

Hi everyone. I’m scared right now. I’ve never had this before. Suddenly today ive started having these something isn’t right in my head feelings. Like I’m going insane. Like ruminating terrible intrusive thoughts. Very dark and scary. I feel like I’m going to snap and go crazy. I’ve been 6 months off amitriptyline from a quick taper but was only on it for two months. I’m scared. What’s happening?!?!

[manymoretodays]

Hi Avrgejane, @Avrgejane

Hey, I found your recent post and brought it back here to your introduction.  This is your own home page, really, and good place to post.  Because then all your history is in one place.

 

How are you doing today? 

 

You had asked about Paws and DPDR and so here are some links on those topics:

Derealization or Depersonalization

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS(post-acute withdrawal syndrome) how long does it last?

 

Hoping too, that it passes, your recent fears brought on by new symptoms.  That's what I found.  Even though, yes, it sometimes did feel scary, once I came to terms with symptoms passing.......that really helped.

 

And how is the stress right now?  It's incredibly hard for so many right now, with Covid19 precautions, and distancing and all.  And then, lot's of sometimes scary information getting passed around too. 

 

And ouch, a Wave, is my best guess is what is going on?

 

Is your signature up to date?  Are you still doing Ativan 2 times per week?  If so, that could be a factor too.

Any additions of supplements or medications/drugs?

 

Thanks.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Avrgejane]

Hi! It’s been a rough week for me for sure. 1) I’m sure I’ve had covid - for over 23 days now I’ve had burning lungs. Like buuuurrrrning. First week to two weeks was horrific. It seems to come and go now to a lesser degree but I’m still getting over it. And yes everything about it freaks me right out. We pretty much have not been leaving the house. Plus with all the unemployment and mortgage stuff...it’s very stressful. 
 

2) I hope to GOD that was a wave. I’ve been rattled by it big time. It’s been a few days now and I still cannot stop thinking about it, terrified that it or something similar might resurface. It could have possibly been brought on by stress. My husband overheard me having a conversation with a psychiatrist (evaluation for work) and I said that I was extremely anxious in the mornings and have waves of depression too and that I have this weird agoraphobia and I wasn’t too sure whether it was linked to the DRDP or what. Well after he heard me he flipped out and basically said to me that if I’m not better by the beginning/end of summer he was going to leave me.  Then he said the only way he would stay is if I started meds again - which to me is not an option. I then told my parents the next day about this fight and my dad went on and on and on about how I was pushing people away and how I’m not myself and I should start meds...so that was very very stressful. He was telling me he’s not sleeping because of me, etc. So that puts a lot of guilt on me. So maybe this is where this crazy terrifying wave came from? I was utterly terrifying. I had one time similar in December when I was still in acute (I felt like I was in acute for about 4 months). I don’t know - have other people had terrible terrible mental symptoms like that come up 6 months off? Out of seemingly nowhere? 
 

Thank you for the links - I will look at them. And my signature is up to date. I have not taken an Ativan/Klonopin since early October. I had only taken them about 13-15 times max over a month and a half. And not at full dose, but you are right, it could have contributed to the mess I am in. 
 

I’m discouraged. I like everyone else on this site just am tired and want it to end. I’m so fearing losing everything and everyone. I just decided that I’m going to have to fake it till I make it to maintain my relationships. I can’t even speak to my husband about it anymore. It makes me sad but that is the only way that I am going to be able to save my marriage. And now, I feel like I’m on a timeline which is adding more stress for sure. This morning it took 3.5 hours to stop ruminating about what if I never heal, what if I’m brain damaged and will be jobless and homeless without anyone. Mornings are alway incredibly hard. The symptoms always kick in about and hour or two after I get up. They are hard to get around and I’ve been working on acceptance. I am also going to be starting therapy soon so I hope that helps with coping and progress. 
 

Supplement wise, yes I am taking some. I am starting to wean off some though. I am currently weaning off gaba. Then I will wean the Relaxmax I take before bed. I take ashwagandha, 1 magnesium, omega 3 fish oil, camu camu for vitamin c and zinc. I know some supplements can cause an uptick of symptoms and there has been some debate over whether things like theanine and gaba help or hinder so I decided to wean off both. I’ve been off the theanine for about a month now so I want to get off all the supplements that could be impacting healing (which I know lots of people debate). 
 

AJ 

[Avrgejane]

Oh so the DRDP. It’s always there. I’ve had it right from the beginning. It has gotten better but it is every single day. I never had it before. Even on the med I never had it. It has only been since coming off. It is by far my most distressing symptom aside from momentary boughts of sensory overload and the scary depression now! 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Avrg. Yes, many people get derealization or depersonalization as a withdrawal symptom and find it quite distressing.

 

Please try not to worry about it -- it will very, very gradually go away, as will the surges of other strange symptoms.

[Avrgejane]

@Altostrata like the surges of the very very intense anxiety and depression? I’ve never ever had these before! They are so terrifying. Especially when then include intrusive thoughts. These are as a result of WD yes? And they will go? 

[Altostrata]

Classic withdrawal symptoms.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Avrge,

And oh my, it does all sound rough.  I was just reading the NYtimes, and about those who had Covid19, and had gotten better.  Their guilt, around surviving, when many did not.  And then reactions from others when they learned they had it.  In any case......so very glad you are on the mend.

The economic changes too!  Yowser.  Things will come back, although it may take over a year.

This kind of stuff effects all of us, it really does.......and so, we are all in this together.

Maybe you can donate plasma, for studies and use of the antibodies you've developed?  Once you are free and clear of Covid19 symptoms.

 

Have you figured out the site, and how to do searches for topics here, pertaining to supplements, and then healing?

On 4/11/2020 at 2:12 PM, Avrgejane said:

Supplement wise, yes I am taking some. I am starting to wean off some though. I am currently weaning off gaba. Then I will wean the Relaxmax I take before bed. I take ashwagandha, 1 magnesium, omega 3 fish oil, camu camu for vitamin c and zinc. I know some supplements can cause an uptick of symptoms and there has been some debate over whether things like theanine and gaba help or hinder so I decided to wean off both. I’ve been off the theanine for about a month now so I want to get off all the supplements that could be impacting healing (which I know lots of people debate). 

Ashwagandha herb for anxiety, stress and toxic overload

GABA(gamma-aminobutyric sice) tablets, capsules, liquid

 

I just go from my main browser, and plug in survivingantidepressants.org and then the topic or subject of interest

On site, you can go to the Symptoms and Self care forum, and plug in the topic, right in the top right search box too.

And a great indexed list of non-drug coping is in the first post here:  Non drug techniques to cope

 

Oh, so sorry to hear about the lack of understanding and support at home.  And having to "fake it" on through.  You might see something in the Relationships forum that helps.  And/or find a buddy to vent to here.......it can be so, so very hard, for so many of us.  Joe Q. Public, as well as so many of our loved ones........just don't get it.  It can and does get better though, and easier.  I'll attest to that.  And WD begins to fade into the background of just living live to the maximum.

 

Healing and encouragement topics, may be found in individual members Introductions, and in the Success Stories forum, as well as in some of the the other forums and topics.

 

It sounds like you are doing okay.......really, all things considered.

 

The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization

neuroemotions

 

And I don't know where they come from.......the Waves from hello.  It's a good sign though, at least I have come to believe that, the nervous system heals in fits and starts, and so it's healing Average.  You are healing!

 

L, P, H, and G,

(and bunches of links to pursue for you)

mmt

 

 

 

 

I'm finding camu camu, is a single ingredient, that comes from a shrub in the Amazon rain forest

Relaxmax is a proprietary blend, of several ingredients, small amounts of them.

 

Early on, I learned to stick to just the single ingredient supplements, and then, even starting low.......this after some initial leaps on and off several drugs and supplements.  

And so......it does seem very Average to try stuff.

Best results really are just one new thing, start low, go slow while observing.

 

The only 2 that we really endorse are Magnesium and Omega 3's:

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Have a great day.  I guess you got my morning coffee post today!  I can be concise too, honest, I can!  ❤️

 

[Avrgejane]

@AltostrataI do have a question for you, I think I was having an adverse reaction to being updosed so quickly in Aug/Sept 2019. Really bad anxiety and pounding heart with panic attacks as the dose increased. I went from 12.5 mg - 100mg amitriptyline in 5.5 weeks and then tapered in 11 days to 0. Plus took the benzo about 12-13 times in there over a month and a half (not every day). Klon anywhere between .25 to .75 - only took .75 one time. So here is what I am wondering. Yes I’m still in WD. According to brass monkeys post I fall under the qt/ct AND the adverse reaction. So in all honesty, do you think I have years of this ahead of me? From the sounds it could go 7-8 years?? 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Altostrata
changed font

[Altostrata]

We can't predict when anyone will recover. More likely within a few years rather 7-8 years.

[Avrgejane]

Ok last question for a while I promise. Do new symptoms typically crop up as time goes on? So for example, I’ve had some terror and depression and anxiety, but as I continue to heal through this process should I be prepared for other ones to come? Like SI, or hallucinations, etc? Or do symptoms that I have now or had in the past just typically continue to get better. I hope that question makes sense! 

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal symptoms typically fluctuate and mutate into other symptoms. On the average, symptoms should gradually lessen in intensity.

[Avrgejane]

@manymoretodays I have a question for you. Since I was off cipralex a few times after short durations, and I intermittently took the benzo over the month and a half, and I went up and down so fast with the amitrip is it possible that my brain is kindled? I had someone tell me this and I never really thought it applied to me but maybe it does?? 😳

[Avrgejane]

Hi there, 

 

I’m hoping to connect with some people who were short term users who are also going through withdrawal. I am 6.5 months off and still experiencing a brutal withdrawal from amitriptyline. I did take klonopin about 13 times over 1.5 months at varying doses so that could very well be contributing to my withdrawal. Just looking for some hope, some stories that can keep me afloat and possibly someone to connect with. 
 

I would also love a mentor too - someone to help me keep my head on straight for when I go down the rabbit hole! 
 

AJ 

[Avrgejane]

Why don't I see success stories from who were short term uses of antidepressants.

 

I would love to see success stories (both long and short recoveries) from people who were short term users of antidepressants. Whether it be a short term one time use or short term a few times. Seems like it’s a little difficult to find! 

Edited April 30, 2020 by manymoretodays
merged from Sstories to members Intro, title added

[Avrgejane]

@WiggleIt

 

I see you were also on a TCA for about 2 years. I was on for two months and I’m having a hell of a time. My marriage is completely disintegrating, my family and my husband are constantly pushing drugs on me and I am refusing (to the point I want to get a letter from a lawyer saying they have no right to make judgement for me). I’m scared I’m going to lose my house, my marriage, my job (which I’m off work right now but need to go back in July). 
 

I’m almost 7 months off and my main symptoms (the biggies) are:

 

ear ringing all the time

muscle twitching some days more some less

flashing lights in my eyes

face burning 

sensory overload/overwhelm which then causes panic and anxiety

anxiety/depression/terror and these thoughts that I’m seriously going to need to be hospitalized like I’m going insane 

DPDR- I’ve seen a little improvement here 

lack of emotions- I’ve seen a little improvement here 

I have this weird time thing where about 9:30/10 am I get a tiny little switch in perception that makes the distortions/dpdr kick in and then the other symptoms start too. Mostly the sensory overload with the tv being on and my husband doing things around the house and the anxiety and fear and looping worry kick in. Then usually it starts to ease up by 3pm. I wake up around 8:30 am and literally feel ok for an hour. No dpdr, sometimes some anxiety if the cortisol jolts are bad but I feel “almost” normal. It’s only when everything kicks in that I get waves every day. I do tend to on average have better evenings and have had some windows mostly in the evening. I did have one daytime window last week where I was able to forget about being in withdrawal for literally about an hour or two. And then it all cropped up again. 
 

I had a really nice window for about 6 hours the other night where I actually laughed and felt happiness. It’s been a long time since I’ve ever felt that. 
 

Im just really scared of how long this is going to take, about slipping back into acute like everyone’s signature says (I don’t know if I can deal with that) and how to keep going. Im on the verge of losing everything. My career, my marriage, my relationships, my home. I was only on amitriptyline for two months! And I took benzo as as needed for about a month and a half but only about 13 times. I’m sure that’s complicating things too since I just stopped taking them. I didn’t take them for more than I would say 3 days in a row at a time but who knows. They are powerful drugs too. 
 

I’m just scared. Im working with a therapist and I have a psychiatrist but I’m sure they are all like “why are you still going through this. Must be a relapse or something”. I have never had depression or anxiety (only situational which is why I was on the cipralex after I lose two pregnancies). Now I feel like I’m losing it. 
 

If you can provide any hope and compassion I would love that please. I’m struggling and scared.